 Welcome to the Global Symposium for Regulators 2023, GSR23 here in Shamal Shaking Egypt, where I've got the great pleasure of being joined in the studio this morning by Shanae Bevel, who is the Generation Connect Visionaries Board member. She's also futurist and founder of Way. Shanae, welcome to the studio. Thanks for having me. Now, you're no stranger to ITU events. I know you've been involved with the Partner to Connect recently. You were at the Generation Connect Youth Summit in Kigali, where we first met and we've also chatted as well virtually too. But I really wanted to just pick your brains today about the session that you are moderating tomorrow. Now, the session tomorrow is going to be called Harnessing the Opportunities of the Metaverse. So perhaps you could talk to us a little bit about that. Yes. So I'm really looking forward to it. I know the metaverse is kind of a word that we all started to be introduced to over the last year or two. But I think really buckling down as to what is the metaverse is something that we need to establish so we know how to safeguard it and how to support the innovation, which is what everybody in this regulator's room is kind of focused on. And so many of us think of the metaverse as a place that we attend. But the metaverse is essentially the next evolution of our devices and our computing technologies. So as we move away from things like smartphones and laptops and into more ambient immersive technologies, what does that look like? How do we safeguard it and how do we of course usher in some innovation in a way that it works for everybody and in everyone's national interest? So that's what we will be going over tomorrow, which I'm very much looking forward to. And in fact, it's quite good timing. There are one particular company that's just released some new glasses that are going to apparently revolutionize that particular experience as well. It is very much as I guess at the moment. What about the dangers or the risks or the negative aspects perhaps of the metaverse? Do you think those, of course, are of particular concern, I'm sure, to regulators? Perhaps you could expand a little bit on those. Yes. So the metaverse is inherently a little bit dangerous, right? Because we're moving away. If we thought we shared a lot of data on our mobile phones, to exist in the metaverse requires you to be completely immersed. So things like biometrics, eye tracking technology is what's required in a world with headsets or smart glasses, things like what we see as almost like pacemakers, things that evaluate our health needs, and all of these different exciting ways that the metaverse is going to, these doors the metaverse is going to open, are inherently privacy insensitive. So how do we do this right? How do we entrust safety in this new immersive world in a world way that protects us in it? But at the same time, still allows for innovation. And that's where I see kind of the majority of the risks. Another kind of layer, we're talking about child and online safety. That was actually a discussion this morning. And in a world where we're sharing so much biometric data, or in a world where we're inside more of these digital spaces, what does bots and bullying, for example, look like in these spaces? So these are all sorts of gray areas, emerging areas that we need to consider. But I think those are some of the emerging gray areas of concern with the metaverse. But I think as challenging as social media has been to try to regulate and safeguard, it has given us a few key frameworks for how to approach safety. So I think we're going in with a safety first mentality. We recognize what happens when you don't instill things like protecting youth online or privacy rights. So I think we're starting off our entrance into this next evolution of technology and digital devices, hopefully on a better foot than we started with the internet and with social media. Now, how can regulators really get up to speed quickly enough to be able to put in the correct regulations that are not too restrictive, but that are also really taking into account people's safety? Right, and that's kind of the inherent trade-off. How do you support innovation, but at the same time safeguard? And I think for regulators, it really requires them to lean into the future. So it's not just about what we're seeing right now. It's about examining things like the patents. So you understand where companies are going, and then you can kind of get ahead of that as a trend. And I know technology, it's moving at an accelerating pace. We see AI, which is going to impact the metaverse. But really, I would recommend regulators think about the patents, follow where acquisitions are happening, and then you can understand the pipeline of that technology so you know not just what you're safeguarding in the present, but what you're also supporting in the future. Is there such thing as over-regulations, do you think? I think there is. And of course, it is a trade-off, but there is. I think if we over-regulate a space, we not only kind of hamper innovation, we actually may lock in some of the bigger competitors that are already in the space. So I know with artificial intelligence, for example, some other regulations may require certain levels of risk or data to train these models. And there are certain companies that are more financially endowed with resources that could adhere to those regulations, but it's harder with startups. So there is a world where we over-regulate and actually make it easier for some of the bigger companies and harder for new entrants. Now, this year at GSR, there have been a number of participants who haven't been in this space in a major way in the past. I mean, you're one of them. I just really wanted to get your impressions of the conversations that you've been hearing here. And what do you think about being in this inner sanctum, so to speak? Yeah, I think we are essentially in the room where the future is being decided upon. How do we support it and how do we safeguard it? So I think it's energizing. It's one line that really stood out to me. Yesterday in one of the sessions was, space isn't a place we're visiting. It's somewhere where we're building neighborhoods. So just to give you an example of how far reaching some of the topics are that we touch on, but I think it's an exciting place to be. If we know the future is being built on top of technology, how do we do this right? So I'm honored to be in these spaces to hear some of the different ideations around technology, around the future. And it's, yeah, it's an honor to be with regulators and leaning on the side of let's try to get this right. It's been a pleasure having you in the studio and chatting to you once more. Hopefully we'll catch up with you again soon. I think you're going to be at the next AI for Good Summit, perhaps? That's the plan. Okay, so hopefully we'll catch up with you then. But thanks very much indeed for today and do obviously keep in touch with us and let us know how things are going. Great, thank you. Thanks for having me. All right, great, thanks a lot. Take care. And do check out all our other interviews on the IT YouTube channel as well as our podcasts on our podcast channels. And for further information, visit www.itu.int. Thank you very much.