 Hello and welcome to another episode of The Shakedown. My name is Ryan Forbes, aka Rainforest. And let's see, I spent six years in prison and got a degree in sociology, specializing in social welfare, studied criminology, had three different lawyers, and so I know a little bit about the criminal justice system. All Malone did was spend 30 years, or 7,000, depending on what kind of math you did. 30 or 7,000 years in prison. You know, it's kind of funny. Whenever you said that, I just snapped that there's a number of people out. You know, I used to have the joke about being in an orangutan. Backyard prize-biter in orangutans. So people have actually called me to task on that and said, you're claiming to be an orangutan? I'm like, you really didn't get that, huh? Yes, no, yeah, but he's, Malone is not actually- Don't take it seriously, it's a joke, okay? I mean- Malone does not have a backyard, people. I don't even have a backyard or an orangutan. Although sometimes you could confuse Rainforest with an orangutan. Fair enough. If you're looking at him right now, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Well, they are looking, and I am, I did not light myself super well for this one. So I may appear very orangutan-like for this episode. Or orangutan-y. Yes, orangutan-y, I like it. So what we talk about on the shakedown, the reason why you listen to this podcast, or maybe one of the reasons, or maybe you just want to listen to us snap at each other, is that we talk about the criminal justice system, what needs to change, what can change, and we talk about it based on our personal experiences with the criminal justice system. And I just had a very personal experience with the criminal justice system going back to Texas and trying to get one of my conditions of probation change. And in our last episode, we talked about what, about getting the lawyer going out there, why I had this condition in the first place. And then we also related to the fact that in Texas, there is this mentality about why. Like, it's punish, punish, punish. Like, you need to punish punishment. And there's also incentives to punish. Because the more creative a judge gets for punishment, and the more insane it is, and intense it is, then it makes the judge look good, especially in Texas. Because a lot of Texans will support crazy, harsh punishments. And I will honestly, Malone and I were just talking about how Colorado is a very different place, and it's not like, it's not the same way. But I will say, I like to make fun of it. Well, we like to make what here? Make fun of us. Oh, we do. We love to make fun of Texas. Interested in this podcast only for the sake of just knowing how crazy we are here in Texas. Yes. Yeah, if you want to hear what's so crazy about Texas, this is the podcast to listen to. Um, but, um, so, so we just got done talking about all of those things. But I was going to say, there is a group that I've actually had to deal with here in Colorado that is very pro lock them up. Let's, let's put them away. And I have talked about them on the podcast before that I've had to deal with. And those guys, um, they need a hobby or something. Like, I don't know what to tell, talk, talk, say much more about that. But, um, they are welcome to listen to this podcast and I guess gripe about it. But hopefully here that there are other things frustrated. They need a girlfriend or something. That's what I think. But honestly, they, I want like the, the leader of the group is the one I think like the most. That might be what's going on now that now we're talking. Um, so, uh, Yeah. And if that's what it takes to make you feel like a man, might I, might you consider some alternatives because it really messes with society? Yeah. Have you considered moving to Texas and then seceding from the US? That's an option. Oh, well, that's for you. Very manly. Yes. Yes. So you're so, you're the one who's subject to the laws that you bound upon everybody else and comes back to bite you in the tail or your kid is or something. Right. So then all of a sudden, the kid's not, not the person you were really talking about. No, he's a great guy. I mean, uh, we're talking about criminals, bad people. Yeah. These awful people that yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not one of those people I am. On your side. Yes. I'm not one of those monsters, which to be fair is not what I said when I went down there. I did not say I'm not one of those monsters. I have always, as I've done, as I did on the last episode and as I will do right now, I have always owned up to what I did. I did it. It's me. It is part of me now. Yes. I play one on TV and I have to say that that's not a good idea to admit culpability. You should probably come up with some kind of story about how you've been drinking lately and you blacked out again. And that's why you said what you said. That could be harmful to you. People take any admission like that and they run with it. It's not a, it's not you showing, you know, remorse and wanting to change and trying to be honest instead. It's just more ammunition. You know what Malone, I love that line right now. I love that, that I should just say that, you know, I, I, you know, when I was in that courtroom, I was drunk. I was blacked out. I, I should never have admitted to anything. And, and that's, that's what I should have, that's what I should have said. And I should say what I should write in my essay that I have to write is like, oh, I was just drunk and whatever. And I was, I was just a little buzzed judge. Sorry about that. If I were, you want to, I have no culpability. There's nothing for me to feel remorse for. Don't, don't worry about it, judge. Yeah. That's, that'll be my, that'll be my essay. I like it. I like that idea of sending that to the judge. That's going to be your essay? Yeah, that's going to be my essay. It's like, judge, you know what? I don't plan on doing this. The whole reason why you're saying all this is to get out of the essay. No, I have to do the essay. So Malone, we did not discuss this last time. So I went down to the judge to get this thing removed. Honestly, to get this condition of going down. What did the judge tell you? Yes. So I went down to get this condition removed and my condition was to go down to jail one day a year. I have, I had eight days left to do and I did not want to do eight years because let me explain a little bit about the hardship, which I did explain a bit to the judge. I do not live in Texas. I do not live, I don't know anyone. There was no question about that. No one's. No one's guessing that. I don't live in Texas. The place where I lived where I caused the accident, I lived in for eight months. I don't know people there. I don't have friends there. I don't have family there. I just went there or did a whole bunch of damage and then was out. And my family is up here in Colorado. I am up, my job is up here in Colorado now. My life is up here in Colorado at this point. And so I have to go down there. I have to fly down there and then I have to go up and then I have to get to jail because I don't have a driver's license still. According, once again, to the conditions of my parole and probation. I'm not sure which because Texas refuses to answer Colorado on what it would take for me to get my driver's license back. So there is that. That's another, that's a whole other situation, Rainey. That is a whole other situation. We don't need to stick to the topic at hand. All right, so sticking to the topic at hand. So it's got to fly in, usually get a hotel the night before because I don't want to miss my time. Don't want to check in late for my jail stay. Then I've got to, it goes from 5.30 p.m. to 5.30 p.m. And the reason I come in a day early is because flights, canceled flights, missed flights, they happen. And I do not want to have to reschedule this thing. You miss a flight. If I miss a flight, then that's basically that's failing a condition of my probation, which means that can send me right back to prison. Actually, it can be not just right. So that fails the condition of my probation, which violates my parole, which means that I can go right back to prison for my probation, for parole. And I can get added time. My probation can instantly turn to prison time. So then I'd have a stacked, I'd have stacked prison sentences. So I definitely do not want to be to miss that date. You could be sent to prison with another charge or something because you know, it's just like when they revoke, they, you know, when they revoke your parole, they send you back to prison. They can revoke your probation and it can become prison. So probation, reputation. Okay. I haven't been on probation. So I don't know. That's the one part of Texas justice I missed. But they, so that can all, that can turn into a prison sentence. Right. But there's not a charge on that. I mean, I'm trying to figure out what they'd send you to prison for. You're going, you're going for the original charge. There is, there is a charge on it. The charge is probation violation. And I will tell you everyone sitting in county jail right now, if you ask them what their charge is, they will tell you that their charge was probation violation, which that doesn't tell you what the charge was. That doesn't tell, that tells you nothing. If I tell you that I just went to jail for probation violation. Well, what were you on probation for? Well, what did you do that violated the probation? That doesn't tell me anything. So, but everyone in county jail, if you ask them, why are you locked up? Which don't ask them because they're not going to tell you. That's why they keep telling you probation violation. But they will all tell you probation violation, whether it's true or not. But that's what they're going to say. Okay. That's interesting. So that puts you, they can put a condition on you. And then if you can't, and that can put you in a position that if you don't meet it within your, you'll be charged with something else. Correct. You'll get, you'll get a new charge. You would be a two-time loser. This would be your second charge. This wouldn't be like violating your parole. Or would you be violating your parole as well? I'm trying to figure out how that works. It would, I think it would violate my parole too. Because they can, Prison for two things at once. Exactly. They can double. They can double sentence you. They can double sentence me. And that's why I'm saying it would be stacked because my probation, as we discussed last episode, my probation was stacked on top of my prison sentence. So whatever sentence came from my probation. So if I violate and I get a prison sentence from my probation, it would probably be stacked on me finishing my prison sentence. From, Okay. Yeah. Which is insane. It's like getting worse. This reminds me of something I was reading about, about what was going on in Britain not too long ago. They got kind of crazy with their criminal justice system. And they started making these things called indeterminate sentences. They came up with this concept. They said it was okay. They agreed upon it. And what an indeterminate sentence means is that you're put, you're actually put in prison. And then there's no end. I mean, they don't ever have to, they don't ever have to have to let you go. And if you come up with, I mean, good enough or whatever, you know, meet whatever requirements or jump through whatever hoops that they do finally let you go. They can, at any time take you back and keep you as long as they want. Right. And people were, they had such a high suicide rate of people that were doing this, that they had to rethink the whole thing and they eventually can that idea. Well, they do a version of that here. You understand that, right? What I'm hearing is, is like a very long form roundabout version of that. And that's what the judge was trying to do. He was trying to keep me on paper for a very long period of time, as opposed to just giving me an outright sentence. Either way, and it doesn't matter. So let's say, let's say I just had the prison sentence. I get out on the prison sentence. I finish my parole, finish the parole, finish it, I'm off paper. Am I done with my sentence? No. I'm still a felon. I still can't travel to certain places. I still can't own a gun. I still can't shoot a gun. I still can't do many things. There are certain places where I couldn't vote. These rights are taken away as soon as you're locked up. And especially while you're locked up, while you're locked up, as we have said many times, you become a slave. But this is... You can vote in Colorado. In Colorado? Everywhere. Every state is like that. It's forced labor. They might pay you... You can vote. You can actually vote in Colorado now. I voted. I voted. Yeah, I've been voting. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And let's... Yeah. We're going to say... We're going to do some thank yous right now, some gratitudes. So thank you, Colorado, for letting me vote. And so I... Which I think has been two elections now since I've been out. And also, thank you for... I... Thank you for letting me go to city council meetings and being a part of those and speaking up at city council meetings and allowing to be present and heard at those, which has been great and amazing. And I've talked about prisoner rights and pedestrian safety and public media, which gets me back to this, public media, which I also get to be a part of. I want to hear that pedestrian safety talk. That would have been awesome. I can imagine that was... Oh, it's recorded Malone. It's part of... Like, that's part of what I do here. It's called sarcasm. Malone's interested in hearing the public pedestrian safety talk. Well, the transportation board was interested. Are the people in charge of the transportation changes? E-mail me back. Yeah, yeah. I can only imagine that very, very specific, niche group of people. Granted. And it's a great opportunity to be interested in that better. Anyway. But I get to talk to them. I get to be a part of this. I actually get to... I seriously... Nothing put a fire under me to be involved in our local politics like going to prison. Once I saw what was going on there, I was like, no, this cannot be what our society looks like. And hence this podcast, hence why we do this. So, let's bring this all this back in. Malone asked, what did the judge finally say? And what did the judge finally say? He said, you do not have to come back for eight years. You can come back for... and do all eight days at once. But you have to now write a five-page essay. And I need to... My lawyer is still... I'm still waiting to hear from my lawyer about what the specific terms he used was because he used some very specific terms. And I will tell you, I was in the same courtroom where I was sentenced with the same judge who sentenced me. And, and I didn't tell you this, Malone, I was in that room with the same lawyer who was defending me, sitting right behind me, watching the entire thing. So, my mind was very much not trying not to be in that courtroom at that moment. But... That sounds kind of intimidating. Yeah. It's amazing that... I know how... I know how those types of things go. And those... I mean, being the subject of the jury trial is traumatic. It's a punishment in and of itself. I know... It's... Once you've ever been there, I mean, you don't know what that's like. But they... You know, you have a group of people that really don't know much about you. And they pick apart every single thing that you've ever said or done. And it's really obvious as they're picking apart everything that you've ever said and done that they don't care whether or not they're getting it right. They're trying to turn everything you have ever said or anything you've ever done into something bad. They're not interested in anything that's gonna... They're interested in one side of the story. And I want to hit that point. I want to talk about that, Malone, real quick. So, they're interested in one part of the story. And we... They're going through the whole thing again. Yeah. Well, I want to... I want to talk about that because the last time I was in that courtroom I talked about my sentencing hearing and I talked about that's exactly what the DA did. The DA was a new DA. She wanted to get some props and she turned every sentence that came out of my mouth into the worst thing I could have said. And made it indefensible, made it awful. And then I got to watch my victim's family cry, which was just... That was devastating for everyone. That was not... That was not an outcome that anyone wanted. And then they had to come up on the stand, could not speak English, and they tried to speak, and that was awful. And I put a lot of that on the DA and a lot of it... In that situation, a lot of it is on the DA. This situation, there is no DA. The DA is not involved in this situation really at all, like from my understanding of it. But... The judge is the final decider. And I got to see a lot more of the judge and got a little bit of the reminder of what type of judge this was. And I will tell you, the judge did not want to hear what I had to say. And there were... I did have time to speak for myself. I will give myself that. I will give credit there. This whole process took 10 minutes at max, maximum 10 minutes. It felt like an hour. But seriously, I was in and out by 9.15. And that's from the holes. All shall rise and all that other stuff included as well. And... that... that... so... he... he... like I got chances to speak, but they were only about specific questions. And it was never, why do you think you should get this? Why do you think we should change this for you? That was never the question. It was, why does your job reflect that you're thinking about what... you know... thinking about what you did? Why... why... why does you living in Colorado matter to the judge? It's a great question one more time. What was that? The question... Well, I'll put it this way. So my lawyer's sitting there talking. He's like, look, Ryan even chose a job that shows that he thinks about what he... what... what he did. Like... like about his crime. Ryan, tell him what you... what your job is. All right. That's what it was. Okay. How'd that work out? It went awful. What does that mean? It went awful. Like I said, I wasn't... I was... that whole situation was insanely stressful. I can't... I painted a little bit of the picture, but honestly, I... I'd already been in that courtroom once and my brain had already left my body and it really... it was like, I did it once, I can do it again. And I was really trying hard to keep it present. And I could hear myself rambling. I could hear myself stuttering. The thing, like I've been in this room right now, I have been practicing not doing all those things, but in that courtroom, nope. Nope. That Ryan, who was not making a point and goes around in circles, he was right back there. I know that Ryan. Yeah. We both do, unfortunately. Okay. But anyway, so... So the judge... So... It's a traumatic experience of being a subject to a court. So, I mean, is it... I have so many questions. I'm having a hard time locking on to one to ask you. We're getting close close to. We are getting. Okay. So, I mean, just explain a little bit more to me than Ryan. I mean, we've... This is the thing... We covered all this. What was the agreement? Why did they change it then? If... at all, if they... Here's the thing I wanted to... I want to say Malone. And this is the point. This is a point that we have not made yet. And I want to... I said that the judge really wasn't listening. And I said that I got a chance to explain, but I'm not present. And this is the reason why I say the judge wasn't listening. He goes... My lawyer says, Ryan doesn't live in Colorado. And... And the judge goes, why... Why does that matter to me? And... That you don't live in Colorado? Sorry. That you do live in Colorado? That he doesn't... I don't live in Texas. I don't live in Plano. I don't live here. Or I don't... I don't live anywhere near the place where I have to go to jail. Because you don't... He doesn't live here. He lives in Colorado. He made that clear. He's like... And the judge immediately came back with why does that matter to me? That's his choice. That's his problem. And... And my lawyer was like, he has a job up there. And then he's like, that's his problem. And then I... This is the only time I jumped in. I said... Or no, he asked me one more time. He's like, why should that matter to me? And then he asked me that. And then I said... I said, sir, the... My family is all up here. Like, everyone is up here. I don't have anyone here. There's no reason for me to be here. They're like, not my problem. Once he said that, after that, there is nothing... That's what makes it a burden. That is the reason it was a burden. It's because I don't live in Collin County. If I lived in the county, it wouldn't be such a burden. Just go there once a year. Be done with it. Some people who... Ben David would kill for a charge like that. I need to have... Okay, I got a question that goes along with this though. Are you dealing with... I mean, is there some kind of legal claim that you have to make? I mean, of burden or something? I mean... No, and that's... Is there an expectation? There is no legal claim of burden. There's no such thing as a legal... That's the thing. I wish there... It'd be nice if there was a thing that was of burden. But there's... It's totally up to the judge what was a burden. And he didn't care. And he said explicitly, you killed someone. It sounds like... This all sounds like whining to me. It all sounds like what? Whining. Whining. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you get a lot of that. Yeah, because I killed someone. So, I'm lucky I got this. What remedy were you seeking? Were you just trying to be let off of this whole thing all together? Yes. This one... Actually, we asked... Did not ask for the Colorado for a day. And I said, we really just said we want to change this condition. This is the only condition we want to remove. And here's the thing. That's not the only condition on my probation. I had to pay MADD, which, for those of you who haven't been paying attention to this podcast or are new to this podcast, MADD, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, is an awful organization. Their sole goal is to put people into prison. I do not approve of MADD. Yes, I know. When MADD gets a hold of this, what are they going to do? They're going to rally against me and they're going to want to put me in prison because that's what MADD does. Prove me wrong, MADD. Please, prove me wrong. Do something helpful to society. Please. But I do not support MADD. I do not like them. I've watched them keep people in prison and do not provide ways for people to get support. I do not. They prevent drunk driving. I do not see MADD ever doing that. I've never seen it and I don't think I ever will because that doesn't seem to be what MADD believes in. Anyway, that was one of the conditions. Give MADD thousands of dollars. One condition. That's done. Next one. What if you don't have thousands of dollars? What if you don't have thousands of dollars? Then you don't meet that condition. No. And guess what? When I saw that judge and if I had not met that condition I probably wouldn't be able to see the judge. So the fact that I could pay for MADD and then pay for my victim impact panel and pay for the flight down to Dallas and pay for all of those things and pay for the lawyer to do all of those things allowed me a chance to maybe get this restriction removed. And I want to say one thing about all of this. All of that money could have gone to my victim's family. All of it. And you know what? If the judge had ordered all of the money I just talked about went to the victim's family no complaints. You would have heard no complaints from me. There would be no podcast episode about that. None. Because that I cannot argue with because I did them a whole bunch of harm. I did not do MADD any harm. I did not do Collin County Correctional Facility any harm. It is interesting that they can pick a cause that they want you to support. I got to say that it just does not sound right at all to me. Right. And we have successfully pissed me off today, Malone. So I think we unless you have any final points Final points? You don't have to have any. This is one of those things I don't think 25 minutes. I don't think an hour or two hours can really completely cover this. I agree. It's just too much. And our camera cut out anyway. So we're going to have to wrap it up. Guys, everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the shakedown. Thank you for Malone for being here tonight and and you guys have a great night. And if you have any questions, please comment send us messages and subscribe. We're seven subscribers away from live streaming being able to live stream from Van Expo. We'll talk about that more later on. Alright, talk to you later. 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