 When we had a request to talk about the community, spiritual community, and that symbol, and we started off with the four of us for the first day, and so we'll just be very available and open and transparent about our experiences in spirituality and spiritual awakening. So, feel free too to ask us any questions. I think to start off I'll just say that none of us had any clue about spiritual community. We didn't grow up thinking as little boys and girls, oh, when I grow older I'll be in the spiritual community. In fact I think it's safe to say none of us had even the faintest glimmering of such a thought. But we do have a great desire and devotion to the Holy Spirit and Jesus to guide us and to use the symbols in whatever way would be helpful. And so these symbols have come to us and we've used them. And just like you're feeling the love and support and nurturing of everyone here as you go through these emotions, that's the way we felt. We felt, hmm, surprising that we thought it would look this way, but it seems to be working. And that's the most important thing, that you go through the healing without knowing the form of how it's going to look or how ideas of how it's supposed to look or anything. So I think that's the first thing we can do is just open up a little bit, each of us, and just share how it's been for us and the use of symbols in a very honest and tagly way. And also to mention there are variations. Like Helena has her own little community in rural Sweden going now. And just this summer, Jenny and Francis found a house. Casa Mice. Mice. Casa Mice. I'm trying to say that. How do you spell it? M-E-I-X-A. Spanish is pronounced as Mice. Mice. Casa Mice. Okay, another word for me to learn. What does it mean? I have no idea. We're just happy that you can pronounce it. We really don't know what anything means. We get more clueless by the day. We took a bike ride yesterday and then I was like huffing and huffing, and finally Helena and I sat down to meditate. We didn't know it was five minutes from the sea, but it worked out. But we're pretty clueless. But maybe we'll just share a little bit about the symbols how we've used them over the years. What do you mean by symbols? The bodies, the houses. The bodies, the community. Like we're sharing here. It's kind of a communal experience for five days. For us it's been years of this kind of living. Like we're living right now. We're feeling how joyful and helpful this is. It's been years. Well, yeah, but I first started traveling with David. It was just him and I, and I think it was maybe four or five more. I don't really remember the number, but it was just a very timely community. And then it just kind of grew by the years, and we never had an intention of growing in any way. People just kind of came as we were traveling the world, and we just heard about the message and they just felt proud to come in, like several of you here too. And then we would just grow larger and larger and more buildings and buildings. And all of a sudden David would talk about a new building somewhere, and you would just go like, okay, okay, you don't even hear the details. You know, you heard about the name, you just would hear a new building coming. And what happens is that you join in projects to see what arises when you're doing something. You know how you can sit down and meditate on the things that, you know, you see that, okay, something is coming into the awareness of being healed, but when you have the project, some kind of a backup, you notice all your old patterns coming up in a very clear and direct way. And you will notice all subtleties, everything of what is needing to be healed is just arising automatically. So that's what we've been using for years with many, many volunteers coming in and wanting to join in into this mind training and see just what arises in the moment. Because what we're doing is learning how to be done through. That it doesn't matter what we're doing, we're not really doing it. But as we're being with it. And that is something that we learn to be with instead of the doing, which means we let go of the attack thoughts that we have on ourselves, on others, on the things that we're doing. So it's all of those thoughts that are in the way of staying in the presence, get washed away and that you become lighter and lighter and lighter and brighter and brighter. And then it doesn't really matter what you do, but you can choose to be in this state because you don't allow those attack thoughts to come in. So that just continued the years that I was with David and the main miracles and everyone there. And after eight years, I felt it was maximized there. And I was guided to go back to Sweden where I came from originally and buy a house that wasn't all year round house, little one. And I was married at that time. And then we got a divorce in March. And I had no idea of getting the house was just like, okay, here we go. I was moving into a house that was completely empty and then letting the spirit just put one furniture after another with a miracle story. Everything that is in there is a miracle story because I simply had no money. So it was like the spirit was just given everything at the time it was needed and with a miracle story. And that's who would become free of thinking that we provide for ourselves. That we got to be convinced that the spirit is caring us. And that's in everything. So when you practice in an everyday life of just tuning into the presence of the spirit, you see that you are provided for in the thinking. So it's never about the form, it's in the thinking. You can be in this world if you just dare to face whatever is there and is in the way. And you just say, okay, I see this, I want to heal this. And then you put it on the table like you have done here in the expression sessions of your diets this morning and you let the spirit take over. And so what happened after the divorce actually, what happened was that all of a sudden people started moving into the house. I mean, I had no idea how this would be used. I was just like, okay, feel the house. Okay, buy the house. I mean, I didn't even have the money. I took the loan. I couldn't even go to the bank even taking a loan at the bank. It was the angel of my mother. She would go like, okay, well, I can lend you money. Okay, good, great. And here we go. And this is complete trust. And I've seen it live all the time. Like everything that has been needed has been provided for. So you were up on the stage yesterday with, you know, not knowing if you can pay the bills. I had it like that from like November up till I don't know what month this year where every month I would not know how to pay the bills. But all of a sudden the money would come in. And so that they could be paid all the time. And again, it's so practical. This journey is so practical. We have to be convinced by the everyday practice. And that's what you do in community living. So the ones that have come to me, they're just kind of like being attracted to, to come. Like the first one just came because we were, we were organizing a retreat together. And we were joining so deeply and we're not really organizing a retreat. It was a retreat in Spain by the way. And we were just coming together and she just had more and more things coming up. And we would just join it. We were saying like, this is not enough. We need to meet even more, you know. Like we meet every day, you know. So she's like, okay, I'll come over, you know. And I go, okay, okay. And so she came over and then we had a retreat just some weeks or month ago or so. And it was a one week movie retreat. So they came in from England to people who are flying in from England. And then we just felt like, wow, this just feels so wonderful to be here. We just, we feel like we could stay. Can we stay for another week, you know. And I have been feeling this woman for the longest time. I've been working with her since half the year previous to that in an online movie course that I have. Or we meet every week to watch movies together online and talk about what arises. And so she said, can I stay for one week? And I said, are you sure it's just one week? And she's like, ah, communities, but with yours, you know. I feel like, oh, I feel so at home here. I feel so safe. I can feel like I can really go deep here, you know. And so it was so wonderful. So she just, her friend that was traveling with her as well. He was also joining in. And he's temporarily visiting her actually from South Africa. So he would fly back to the UK and just get some more of her things and meet up with Kenneth and the media there. And then just fly back again. And now they're living here and she's committed for a year. She felt like I have to commit. I have to make a commitment. I've never made a commitment in my whole life. But I have to commit. Because she felt it's a year, you know. And that's what she's feeling. She said a year, or maybe longer, who knows. And so it's like this beauty that you give at everything that you need when it's timing of whatever it is. It looks like the spirit's always got the plans on us there. Just like David was talking about yesterday and the Q&A. It's like it's always there. And we can never be left alone. Ever. Yay! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! I was thinking, don't ask this question. But I already don't know. There is sometimes, I think it's a deep distrust in me. Like, but in a way I... Okay, it's about money. Like, I'm trying to be safe with you. Yeah, maybe not. But like... Someone. Yeah. And then when the question comes, I heard like one retreat. New Mexico was 3,000 euros. Or a week in Spain, it's 500 euros. And so I was caught. Like, sometimes I don't understand this. There is this cross like, yeah, that's one week. Why should it be so expensive? You know, like, what is... I don't know. And then I've made this... Do you know what I mean? It's like, why do we cost so much? Do you know, I don't know. Sometimes. Yeah, actually the question is, are you happy you have diamond rings? Yeah. Okay. I don't think you have diamond rings. Sorry, I know. What is that? Well, we could talk about it in terms of... One time I was talking to Kirsten, who just published her book yesterday. I think it started publishing. I'm very domestic. And, you know, she was so transparent about her issues around money, because when I would go down to New Zealand, which is where she grew up, where she was born, and where she grew up is New Zealand. And in New Zealand, when you make things, gatherings and talks available on a donation basis, in New Zealand that means coins. Donations means coins. So they go, oh, it's on a donation basis, so they put like a little jar or a pot up, but they put some little coins in it. Probably the coins aren't even as valuable as they are in, like in Euros or pounds from Great Britain. These are tiny little New Zealand coins. I don't know what the currency is as New Zealand's like. And so Kirsten was like, yeah, that's what they... When we say donations, when you say donations, David, they go coins. And they come and they like, you know, like make a wish to throw a coin in the fountain or something. But practically speaking, they were like airline tickets, you know, you have to fly. And if it's one person, or if it's two or three or four, then you get into round trip, trans-pacific airlines. And so Kirsten would even do a little preliminary talk saying, now I know we think here that donations are coins, but we actually need to support the Spirit's plan of covering costs, just covering costs. And so she would do a little five minute talk like, it doesn't mean coins. Thank you for your coins and to cover airfares, we need more than that. And always there's been the spirit of, of no one should be turned away if they do not have the ability to pay. So I've done, again, I've made some third world countries and 40 some odd countries. And oftentimes there's a venue and we'll just try to, people will try to come in and listen and hear whatever they can do. Camping, I got an email, I think I was just saying, listen, I really am to be there and I can camp. I have an intent, but I can only afford 50 euros. And then there are also things like, Chris organized this, so he's aware of the coming in and the going out of all those things and put the time and energy it takes for how many months? A lot of months, a lot of communications. There's a lot of things involved. And so with that, you know, we have to even pray on guidelines for pricing or fees, putting books out on a donation basis. You have to cover the printing costs and the shipping costs and all those. It's really learning to turn money issues over to the Holy Spirit and just be connected to that. Like what would you have me put down or what should I write or what should I say? There was a time early on where we had CDs available. First there was cassettes and then there was CDs and what did they call it? They burned CDs and what's that stump? You put stickers and you stump CDs. And Kirsten had spent like a couple days burning and stomping some CDs that we had available that we would make available. And we were in Wisconsin in a little town called Sheboygan. Don't you like the sound of that? Sheboygan. You could name your child that. Sheboygan. It's fun. It's a fun name. So we're in Sheboygan and I'm giving a talk and then at the end of the talk I go, and freely we have received of Jesus Christ and freely we shall give. And I was giving, oh it's so much fun and thank you all for coming and I love you and we have some books available. Oh and Kirsten made some CDs available and everything. If you want to leave a donation you can but it's freely offered in this and this. Well she watched me give my speech and she had the thought like, well you don't need to say the word freely so many times. She was just emphasizing freely. Even though Jesus said freely you have received now freely give. That's what he taught. So at the end of the gathering there was a Hispanic woman there who had to go but she she went running over to the table and Kirsten had made burned and stumped a whole stack, a couple stacks of CDs and the woman in her glee went and scooped up as many CDs as she could get in her palm with her hand. She just ran over to the table she scooped them all up. She went, yay! and went running out the door. She didn't even put a coin in there. That's just what Kirsten spent like two days making the CDs and they were gone. Half of them all were out the window and she was, of course, she didn't even react. The woman was gone, was out there and she couldn't even say, whoa there's just a donation vest or something. It was too fast. So after that we went to over to Wisconsin Portage where Kathy and Bobby and I gave I did this five or six day retreat and she put out her donation basket again and I talked the first day no donations. Second day she had her eyes after this CD thing she had her eyes on the donation basket. Second day I was talking like all day not a single note or a coin in there. The third day she's watching she's getting more irritated and more upset about this whole donation thing. This is not fair. You're talking all day and then she went in and she finally got so irritated that she took it to Jesus that she prayed to Jesus in the Holy Spirit and said, what is it? I have a money issue and when she was complaining to Jesus that people weren't making any donations at all and also they had taken all these CDs and she had stopped. Jesus says, where are you with holding? That's how he works. Where are you with holding? And it turns out that even though in our ministry we give over everything we really don't hold on to possessions private this, private that we don't have privately owned things we give it all, put it in the pool which is like the Franciscans and the Essenes and so forth. But basically she went into her mind and Jesus said, where are you with holding? And she had stashed money like squirrels stashed nuts. She had a little bank account there and a little savings account there some stashed under the mattress. She was a little stashier like a little squirrel that takes the nuts from you and then buries the nuts and then forgets forgets where the nuts come from but they're safe much less safe. So she had little stashes around and Jesus pointed out to her all of her little stashes as she was judging the people that were not donating Jesus was pointing out all of her stashes it was very I don't know if that one's in the book or not but that was a big one. So that's something that many issues are going to come up because the ego is scarcely in lack and there are things that sometimes there's long retreats or devotional retreats and this was, Chris had to work out the numbers over like five days but imagine if we do this for weeks or four weeks or six weeks then you get into lodging, food, logistics transportation most of our long devotional retreats have been over here in Spain in New York and then if you, for example back in the days if we had four of us to fly there then you have four transatlantic tickets depending on where you're from I trust you so we just trust we just do the best that we can and we also, they have to say we have come out with all of us we have offered a lot of scholarships we've had scholarships for here at this place but we've had lots of scholarships that's another way of blessings Marianne was like saying could I come for one or two days only money for one or two days but I'd love to come for the whole week and that'd be fun to have you for the whole week so a partial scholarship and look at how Marianne has blessed all of us so abundantly from that so we leave it in the spirit's hands really so even the music that we're sharing from the open heart if you go into our band campaign there's a system that says pay it forward we wanted to call it something because we didn't know how to explain this because when you come there and if you don't have the money to pay it we don't want that to stop anyone not even online so that you can even download all of our music for free if you go online or you can make a donation so that's the whole point that's what David he's saying freely you have been given so this is so different to learn and see that we're given something to extend it the gift that we're given and we just continue giving it and then we get even more so to speak of the giving because we can't help being ourselves and of course you find teachings you just go to the speaker channel you'll have thousands I'm sure of hours by now you're working your mind and all this beauty you're going deeper and deeper so it's all over the place it's like all the news and everything I just want to react to what you say because you said there's thousands of hours on speaker but I mean people in your community are putting it there and those people have to live as well so part of this money will be used for those things on the website but there are so beautiful volunteers over in mostly in Kalmas Utah they have given everything to support this extension and you don't see them but they are behind this and it's really really really beautiful and the ministry has actually grown also this when I started I felt I want to give everything I didn't really have much money I think my first donation was $20 you had the debt I even had the debt you came here I even it didn't even have money to get back home to Sweden when I needed to run away when I got afraid of David after three months someone gave me $100 and for a bus ticket I was terrified of David David was gone to Australia for a moment and I someone came to the peace house I can share it more but he said do you need something and he gave me $100 yeah also this support what you value we are grown up with this getting mentality getting mechanism to try to get things as cheap as possible everywhere I feel the spirit wants to reverse the whole thinking what is money is it really anything it's a lot about undoing scarcity thinking it's been for me a lot an investment too Kirsten one time after she'd been working with me for some years she said hmm most of the people I meet on the planet they have money but it's invested in houses, children education, clothing cars and investments financial but she said it's already sunk it's sunk into the things of time and space it's invested their money is invested in linear time and they feel now they can't pull it out like they feel guilty if they reinvest it but the spirit's like saying reconsider there's a greater plan going on and we need some reinvestment we need to move some of those resources down to support these communications how many times do you go to retreat to undo all of time and space it's not the kind of thing that you usually go to ongoing counseling or going to this place or that but undoing time and space but that's actually a good purposeful use of resources so that's the way it's done do you have some phrases yeah I remember Alison and I actually said the decision they made before they got here is either this or a cruise there was no doubt in their mind and this is what they want this is like the best holiday you can do not answer the line if that is who you are holy day holy day holy day and I feel for me when I thought it is I start to give everything I give everything for my awakening and I give everything to spirit and I feel like I received everything when I did that I actually received everything and it's been so amazing I was in a group like this or even bigger first time I met David and he said the first day he said are you welcome I have a peace house you're welcome to come but in my mind I envision this huge place this mansion or big retreat center in a beautiful setting because if he is out traveling and meeting groups of 70 people every week and gives out this invitation it must be a huge place because everybody is going to want to come because I want to come so so I did take him up on it so a few months later I did come to the peace house tripod was in there tripod and a big fat guy lived there a big one a big guy, Charles and two cats Sam and tripod David was out traveling but they were the only ones it wasn't even it wasn't the community at that time but I arrived there and this old man was there and the two cats you should say first when she came across the ocean she saw two giant angels huge that went all the way up into the sky telling her to go but when she first came across the peace house which is a cute little house she went to Maharishi University Maharishi University in Iowa you've seen Jim Carrey's commencement it's a massive, massive place with all kinds of people walking around what were the groups of men that walked around the pandas and it was this massive center of vision so I just invited her to the United States and that's very connected to me Maharishi University so we let her have the big experience of this huge place but they were grading her meditations you got graded on your meditations so she got frustrated with how large it was grading meditations she said I'm going down to the peace house so you did get a big place first yeah I needed to have those angels because actually some people have requested I share about how this came in for me because I had a son a 10 year old son and it was really kind of hard to take this step to go over even to this Maharishi center because the first call I got from spirit was to go there so those two angels appeared and just shared God's love with me so deeply and told me to go I think I need a specific question about this thing with my child because I have already a child you told yesterday the story of coming to David and you said what help was working on my felt of guilt and I shared I always have a lot of feelings of guilt for a lot of reasons but how do you really work to I would say get rid of my guilt and maybe it's to offer my guilt or how did you do that yeah I just I really had to face my guilt and it came up in so many ways and so many times and it was projected onto this scenario with my son that was the big thing because it's not really coming from that so I learned so much from David and from reading the course that this guilt is ontological it's the guilt of believing that I am separate from God that I am not who I really truly am so I just to know that that the guilt is not actually because I'm not with my son guilt is not because of some circumstance in the world that helped me to face it and to withdraw it from those events and take it back to the core issue and it was actually a very shaky time to really face it and I needed to give myself some space to do that to not be in distract, you know all the distractions of the world and in the mother role and all of that I needed to take myself away from that and then it was so intense the fear of God came up which was like the core and I thought I was going to die I thought I lost my mind I thought that they ruined my life I thought I I thought I was completely messed up and that there was no one in this world that would understand me and I shut myself off from David because he was he was the symbol of love and I got so afraid so I had no one because he was the only one he was for me he was the only one that I he was given from spirit to trust he was trying his wisdom and when I couldn't trust the only one there was there was really no one and I really there was my path of learning to know that I am spirit and there is nothing to fear but it was to go through that fear yeah no one and nothing to trust so it wasn't very intense period of seven months of complete loneliness and trying to trying to join with people but feeling like there is no joining with people so it was my mind was confused and lost because I also had had a love experience not of this world with David when I was together with him it was this love and light that was amazing that took me out of time and space first so I had had an experience of the personal is not real and time is not real it's only now then coming back into an experience of time it was so strange it was like every moment was filled with fear and I had to force my whole try to walk and try to take steps try to interact in the world and that was my way of learning to to trust and rely on spirit only and it was quite amazing and I had to give over my son a very beautiful boy and he was 10 years old at the time he will be 20 in a couple of months and I knew that I needed to do that I just needed to give over the things in my life completely because I needed to undo this personal self like the concepts and the roles so but I also doubted so much I was thinking that either I'm insane or God is insane because I thought that if God is calling me away from being a mother and being with my son then God is not loving you know because this the boy he needs me I thought he needed me so but there was another part of my mind that felt so called so strongly called to go for this and to hear my mind completely I also knew that I needed to undo this concept the belief of being a mother and all the beliefs not just that belief but all my beliefs and that was also clear when I met the angels because they came in the moment when I I thought that I can't answer this call I cannot do this and God is cruel and in that moment that's when the light beings appeared and they they just emanated this love they were they took me in and I was one with them there was no time anymore and they communicated much faster than voice you know because a voice is speaking someone else is listening and it's time involved but in the communication with them there was no time it was immediate and they answered all my questions immediately and then they told me then they told me that they are grateful that I'm going to go on the journey but the amazing thing with it and how I learned that I need to to look at all my beliefs was that these light beings were my parents they were my mom and my dad in their pure selves they were my parents not the self-concept parents that I knew but the essence they were them there was no doubt and they were real and they they told me to go and I don't mean for me look like going to America it's not always about a change in the form although often it is but what I wouldn't say was that I find so beautiful that it was my parents because I realized I don't know my parents I realized that the ones that I meet that invite me for dinners and keep being so annoying hold my attention that's not who they are there is something wrong with my perception because this perception was true this experience of them that was pure, that was real and that was love so I learned that oh my god I have some stuff to look at I have some work to do and there is no time to waste there is no thing to waste there was doubt that this is it and I don't want to waste any any other moment so so that was so helpful because I knew I needed to work with my mind there is no other mind to work with I don't and my son doesn't even need me in that when I realize I need to work with my mind and inform he was perfectly taken care of and he healed immediately when I left he healed some deep stuff that he had so it is true the lesson when I am healed I am not healed alone it really were and of course in form it's still for years there were some weird communication of things going on because that's the mind it looks however it looks and he expressed doubts and the reflection of my own doubts came up from him saying mom can you come home can you be normal mom which I tried during that time when I was running away from David I thought okay I'm gonna that's the only thing I knew we always go back to what we believe is safe so I went back to that and I couldn't do that I was not a good mother anymore I've been actually a very good mother for 10 years because I loved him so much and I was giving my all to be this good mother and it was beautiful for my own learning but then that was maximum completely I couldn't do that anymore and I was shown I couldn't do that anymore I even tried to go with him to soccer matches with to see other parents but I felt like alien felt like what's going on I don't know what these characters are up to anymore it takes a lot of integration like here over these 5 days you might notice she has some major breakthroughs and releases but then to integrate that or in the course Jesus calls a transfer of training in the workbook if that's what the lesson is is to transfer the training to everything and everyone without exception and it takes willingness it takes really determination to it's almost like a lighthouse you know at the edge of the sea where the lighthouse has a bright light it goes around 360 degrees and imagine in the dark sky the holy spirit is like this beam of light that's saying I need to do a full sweep I need to do a full 360 sweep in your mind this beam of light like the lighthouse let it go all the way around and there's certain areas where the ego doesn't want to let the light go he wants to protect those dark spots I know too when I work with the chorus if you go into the later parts of the text you have these self-concept versus self-section where basically you see that the whole chorus is about undoing the make-believe self-concept and that self-concept is more than just another concept everything in the world that is believed to be real is part of this cosmic self-concept that was made by the ego to take the place of the spirit of Christ so it takes a lot of faith to let your mind fully go from upside down to right side up and you have to question everything that you believe in and what's the lesson 189 is that beautiful paragraph that begins simply do this be still lay aside all thoughts of what you are what God is and goes on to say hold on to nothing every one thought the past is taught with you forget this world forget this course and come with holy empty hands unto your God I remember I would take an art course going whenever I would read that paragraph because it was very much like Buddha calling the mind into the emptiness Jesus saying we need to drop to know all these conceptual knowings and then Jenny's will like a lot of the parables that we could share but seem rather radical and extreme and yet when you think back to Jesus 2,000 years ago he would say things like I'm calling you out of the world my kingdom is not of this world who is my father, mother, sister, brother he that does the well of our father in heaven and basically the more we know a little bit about the apostles the Orantia Book helps us out the last section of the Orantia Book on the life and teachings of Jesus but Peter some people remember the apostle Peter who was with Jesus he was married with children when he got called by Jesus he was married, he had children he had a family he had his job his vocation and then he just looked into Jesus' eyes and Jesus said to him follow me and so he had to question that he had to let go even temporarily of that self-concept to hang on to that wild ride of three years of public ministry with Jesus and there were many miracles and it was a big loosening of the self-concept but so it's not like there are precedents for these things even historically even with Jesus but again it comes down to the calling you're not so much leaving behind anything as you are embracing your calling that's really what's going on the ego will emphasize the leaving behind part and say woe is you who have to sacrifice all these things and really the spirit's like saying I'm calling you will you answer the call will you accept the call that's really what's going on yes are you showing that like on relations, intimacy and sexuality yeah I think we could say that as I said the other day the world and the realm of time and space is the realm of specialness and so the only one that can undo that specialness is good and completely is the Holy Spirit so the curriculum is highly individualized in the sense that for some like I had one singer songwriter that I traveled with who had been very very sexually active for whole life exposed to sexuality at a very young age and very she was very sexually active and very promiscuous and the more we traveled the more we tuned into Jesus and the Holy Spirit she started to get the guidance to be celibate almost like Jesus said well you play that play that end out now I want you to practice with celibacy and I want you to watch your thoughts another friend of mine who traveled with me she was very young she was only 14 years old when she was part of a Catholic family she went into the convent at 14 and from 14 all the way through to like 22 she was in the convent and when I traveled with her she was dealing with all kinds of repression and suppression like where the other one was very promiscuous and dealing with indulgence massive indulgence this woman was dealing with like 8 years of during puberty and young and old of complete suppression and repression so what did Jesus do with her? well when we went out we were down in Florida and they had a course of miracles group at a nudist family and so here's Miss Nun who is really suppressed sexually and Jesus takes her to a course of miracles group at a nudist family so I said that's interesting I didn't go but I dropped her off I dropped her off tell me about and then when we got out well how did Jesus do it we had some friends who were baptizing people in the creek beds of Sedona and a group of people said come on we're going skin dipping swimming naked in the creams and she was like okay Jesus wants me to go skinny dipping you see nudist family skinny dipping for the one who's repressed sexually and then for the one who's very promiscuous sexually let's try celibacy because in Buddhism they call it the middle way if you hold a string too tight it will snap and if you let the string be too loose it will not play and I think Jesus's version of the middle way is called the miracle he's going to draw us higher and higher in vibrations in charge and he knows what we need based on where we are individually so there's no kind of set answer for everybody about how it has to go sexually in this and that and everyone's a little bit different I mean I didn't go on my first date till I was 27 years old so I missed out on dating and relationships and everything until 27 and then still with relationships there's a lot of mirroring it goes on, there's a lot of healing so I think all of us could speak to that because that's part of the human condition, diet sexuality use of skills but over time the shy one ended up being the speaker we're talking missing the one who was the quietest speaking the most word the one who was afraid of singing ended up doing many music videos and poodles of music and harmonizing and liquid bands springing up there and she was afraid to sing she had all these fears that she went to school to undo her fears and Francis was a brilliant student a scholarship and left China and came to the United States and studied at the University of Chicago but she was a brilliant student very competent ended up forming her own business and what the world would say climbing the ladder to success own business and married and properties and you know you're secure you're a very competent successful woman which she's thrown all that away if you listen to her story you know it was just used as part of her journey but she's stepped out of that story completely and then Jenny's story too of being the mother of a 10 year old and then being so strongly called that's an unusual story too it's not one you hear very often maybe if you read the books of the Far East and a lot of mothers who have gone to India and have gone into these deep mystical states and Samadhi states and they'll write about it how they had to let go of those concepts but those are pretty rare you don't hear about those stories very often in society but they're still there someone asked about her symbols before symbols and we see everything as symbols like in the past we were we kind of were identified with if we were in a relationship or I am a wife or I am this or that but now we call it symbols and if there's still like a need or like oh I want a relationship or I you know I give that over to to spirit if it is most helpful for me it does come back so I'm married right now but it feels like very light like I feel like really I'm married to God and that is that is that is the strongest for me and it's a bit peripheral although it's also very honored like the relationship or the marriage and guided we were just recently guided to be a part for almost six months and Greg is coming back today to spend and I come back tomorrow so we come together again tomorrow but it's a bit romantic but it's very it's so gentle like you know when we give give our lives over even what we need is actually provided and yeah there are no rules but sexuality comes in or not you know whatever is most helpful comes in to our lives and it takes a lot to trust because when you're practicing with no private thoughts and no people pleasing as your guidelines instead of taking vows like there are a lot of traditional Buddhist and Christian communities where they take vows of poverty chastity obedience and I've given talks about those vows where poverty isn't necessarily talking about take about to be poor although some people do interpret that the St. Clair Francis's person that was part of his community they're called the poor Clairs basically that's the name of the order it's still going the poor Clairs but poverty to me was non-possession when we start to possess things and they possess us ego takes over and then we feel taken away and chastity if you look in the dictionary it means purity of thought with relation to sexual matters but purity of thought is basically what we're going through with the Course in Miracles as well and obedience often times they say obedience to mother superior or to a priest or to someone who's heading a monastery or something obedience really we take that to be obedience to the spirit with them to your intuition and so not obedience to a person but obedience to inner guidance and following the guidance I have a question about thank you David that question could you please expand on the team which you all mentioned the spirit there is a lot of spirit there are many kinds of spirit even in the Christian world the oldest spirit and the most oldest spirit and could you please put it against soul I mean the principle of soul the idea of soul is already defined of course and how do you believe soul spirit and mind together please just for clarity yeah those are words I mean obviously if you look at the ur text you'll see the word soul a lot more and then that was taken out of the what we call our published version and I would say of the three soul has a lot of different connotations because it can be part of reincarnation and it's almost like soul can be part of like a soul of a capital s or souls like that every person has a soul and then you get into multiplicity of the souls and lessons of the soul and so on and so forth whereas spirit I take that to be perfect divine order love interaction the course would say the spirit is abstract it doesn't have any individual connotations we could say it's indivisible but we wouldn't say it's individual it's indivisible and mind again you could say the course talks about the mind of God and does say that the mind is the activating agent of spirit so basically Jesus is using that term a very psychological term to to have a realm that's really tied into consciousness and mind training unless it's capitalized and then when we have the capital of mind like the mind of God or the mind of Christ that's abstract too that's very abstract like spirit the course was translated into 23 different languages and in French for example they do not have different words for mind and spirit let's speak one word you see and so they imagine how they're trying to convey the meaning of the course but there's only one word for spirit and mind and it might be the same thing like we talked about the snow if you went to Alaska or Iceland they probably have different words for snow it's just not we have one word for snow they have many words for snow because there's all these nuances it's so much a part of their culture it's the same in Dutch we have to invent new words to translate mind and have it apart from spirit the bank face is just a new word they invented to translate the course it's a sniglet it's a sniglet we call when you invent words it's a sniglet okay we've got a couple one right there I wonder in your communities do you do this snowprout all the time or are there special set times for practices there are expression sessions often times there'll be like a miracle moment or an opportunity in the morning and then another opportunity around lunchtime it's more of a general practice too and I would say the deeper you go with the practice you start to go into this deep mystical telepathic experience and so it's not something that has to say I know how in this community there's a lot of times with the rubric gatherings and daily practice it goes into silence it really depends on where the mind is if the mind is ready to go into that it becomes less of a practice that has like a start time or it becomes less of an activity to a living experience and I think it's the same with meditation at the beginning you have the start time and stop time for the meditations or various breathing techniques various postures but the more you go into the depth of what that stillness is it becomes a presence it becomes a state of mind like the buddhas call it mindfulness you can do open-eyed meditations your whole day can become a meditation as you go more in a devoted way with it it depends on the center and it also depends on the group of people that are there but it is possible to do it all the time yes and I was also wondering is that when you facilitate a group how you facilitate a group sticking with this one we have facilitated it yeah so when we do this group expression sessions that's what you do if you stay you don't follow or you don't try to understand that's what I'm going to say stay with yourself stay with yourself I saw, I really love like Tony Parsons and Lisa Cairns I met them a couple of times and I saw him yesterday oh sorry, yesterday I spoke about you that Lisa is pointing to like the cause is like maybe where the cause is pointing to is the same you know Lisa but she takes all away all the words there is nothing to and sometimes I see this it's helpful maybe to get but sometimes it's confusing do you know if the cause is then maybe kindergarten you know why I don't know kindergarten I see an old trap I want to be clever she had a question too but sometimes the words like because Lisa Cairns I saw in this interview yesterday with Lisa Cairns the words is she I love her that about her the other words like nothing, nothing, nothing do you know what I mean how is the cause no, this is helpful sometimes I say it's also a distraction to have all these words all these words like the mind so the fuck the course just says it's one path among many forms of universal curriculum and there will be many teachers of the universal curriculum with the ages and some are pathways that are more introspective and meditative and if you look at like Advaita Vedanta or Ramana Maharshi it's self inquiry it's basically who am I is the central tool that's almost like if you were going to peel the onion of consciousness Ramana just gives you a sharp knife called who am I and Lisa and clearly even that but what you'll find again is you shall know them by their fruits so people for example one time somebody went all the way to India to talk to Gandhi Mahatma Gandhi and they said to Gandhi just what do you believe are you a Hindu or are you kind of a composite you have like a composite religion from a lot of religions or this and this and he's just said why don't you follow me around and live with me for a while then you'll find out if there's anybody where you have a strong draw to them and a resonance then that's why there was one recently a friend of ours Sandy from Hungary and she saw hell on that in a dream she's also worked with me with us Lisa Cairns she's very drawn to dress hell on her like Lisa she got there at rural Sweden she's saying now Lisa wears this and we can get these second hand and I can make you look like Lisa but the thing about it is you have to you shall know them by their fruits in other words words it's more what presence is using the words what's the purpose behind the words there could be a lot of words used in different ways to point to the same thing and if they're used with integrity and they're coming from a place of joy and happiness and love and laughter whether there's a lot of words or not you're going to feel that so it takes it beyond the whole question of words and of course does have a lot of words but again you know Helen said you know it lasts the pathway for intellectuals so you know it's meant to help you undo the intellectual mind and that's important too and they deserve a pathway too doesn't everyone even the butterflies and snails they need a pathway back to oneness so you know so you learn they're not going to be critical sometimes people talk about the course and they'll say it's this and this and this and then I look they've never read the course they're making commentary on a book that they've never even read it would be like me talking about horticulture or something I don't know anything about this I was in China one time and I did a gathering in I did a gathering in Shanghai and then I went down to Hainan it's like an island on southern China and then I finally said hi everybody and we talked and had a fun time and then I said okay are there any questions and the first question the guy goes yeah yeah he said I was just with you in Shanghai and I was with you for some days down there and I didn't learn anything off of you I didn't get a thing out of the talks so now I'm all the way down to Hainan and he's the first one so can you tell me am I going to get something from you and I said no if you hang around me you not only won't get something you'll lose everything that you think you've got out of the place all these Chinese people roar laughing and off we went you know and he laughed too because I'm not into getting I don't think we should be consumers spiritual human being consumers trying to get metaphysical knowledge we want an experience that comes from releasing our concepts not from getting more concepts so you just have to really go close to it did you have your hand up yes we have been practicing we have been practicing everyday these expression sessions first day was explained to us that we express a very deep strong feeling that even gets up to here and then we don't comment anything on it no reaction no answer, no solution that's it just let it come out and that's it then in the following days somehow the practice changed in the group I was in and I really want to understand this tool since you do it everyday it must mean something so I want to understand can you again explain to me in a very simple way is this the meaning to get out the feelings that get in the way are not peace one has to come to the underlying beliefs thought system so that it can become clear to you that you get free or is it just expressing anything and then yeah I just wanted to ask is the facilitator just being present like we practicing one and two thing and guiding that's my question yeah I think it's good this will be our last question because we're almost at our lunchtime but yeah the first premise was to allow those emotions up into awareness and and if it feels helpful to even speak the emotions without crosstalk without corrections without advice giving somebody rushing into in mid-sentence to say stop I can help you fix that without trying to fix it because they're so repressed and denied from awareness that they have to be allowed up it would be like if you planted a garden and you tell the soil and you put some seeds down in it and then you water the soil and then you put some plastic over the top so no sunlight can get into those seeds and then you put bricks and rocks on top of your garden not really giving those seeds very much of a chance to germinate because of the blocks because of the pushing down would go from plastic and bricks and rocks and the same break that habit of stuffing so we want to encourage the feelings up but ultimately it's a practice in non-judgment because that's really what we need to practice we need to be able to be present we need to be the presence of love there and let those emotions and thoughts come up without criticizing them without judging because that's the practice that's going to heal our mind we have to invite the Holy Spirit to be with us to let those thoughts move through so that's the simple explanation and the ego can come back almost like even when you start off in a new group the next day the ego might be all stirred up and still want to do a little talking and fixing and a little psychotherapy on those expressions but you know that's not really the intention okay we're winding very short so actually we are practicing in this when we listen to our brothers in this session we are practicing non-judgment and he passes by yeah, yes very much and that's very supportive it's very helpful okay so we will take a break for lunch