 Okay, it's pretty risky giving me a gavel, but I'm going to call the July 12th meeting of the design review committee to order and let the members of the committee and the staff introduce themselves. I'm Eric Gilbertson, I'm vice chair of the committee. I'm Martha Smirsky. I'm a member. Benjamin Cheney. Member. Meredith Crandall. Staff. No, you need to review the procedures, correct? Yes. Yep. I'm going to do a little procedures review here because we do have some people attending remotely and I see a 279-6986 number, unmute and let me know who you are. To unmute when you're calling in on the phone, you want to do star six. Okay, I'm going to go forward, I guess, with my remote meeting procedures while we're waiting to hear from our 279 number. Hold on, let me get back to the screen. Yeah, 6986. Sorry, Jason. And I'm sorry, what did you say his last name was? No. If he does speak up, it helps with the meeting minutes. Okay. So sorry for the delay, folks. All right. So it shows my whole screen. Sorry about that. This is also for people who were watching via work media. So for this, goodness gracious. All right. I'm having all sorts of problems today. Let's try this again. I've been doing this for over a year and I've never had this many issues with sharing my little screen. It's the hybrid system. We had to come in and all did zoom and it didn't just fly. How did that get so big? Goodness. All right. We're not going to be able to do it as a presentation. We're just going to do this. Sorry, I'm slowing us down. So anybody watching from home, if you want to actually participate in the meeting, because you're hearing about an application that you're interested in, you can use the link that shows here. My mouse is not working. So link here. Or you can call into the meeting at 929. If you have any questions or comments, please use the chat function. If you have any questions, please use 056099 and use this meeting ID to log in. If you're trying to log in and you're having problems, please email me. And you have my email up. If anybody is having. Problems once they're in zoom and having technical problems, please use the chat function, but please keep that chat function to just troubleshooting or logistics questions. If you have any questions, please use the chat function. If you have any questions, please raise your hand. If we have you on video or you're here in the room. Or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar. For anybody on the phone, you can press star nine. And that'll show a little hand on our zoom screens. So that we'll know you have your hand up. You can also just unmute and state your name during a break in the conversation. If nothing else is working. And then the chair will recognize you when it's your time to access the meeting. Anybody from home is trying to look at the meeting materials. They can use this link here. And just a note that because we have offered zoom is a way to access the meeting. If the public is unable to access the meeting. And we find out about it because I'll be getting emails. That they can't get in and nothing I do gets them in, then we'll have to continue to the meeting to a time and place certain. I'll now hand this back over to the chair. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? All second. And I will vote for it. So it's. Three to nothing unanimous approval of the agenda. The chair has no comments. Okay. And who is representing the installation of the poster on the side of the bill. Okay. And can you just explain exactly what you're doing? And do you have a presentation on the computer? I don't have a presentation. Okay. Application, but this is the state street poster. Right. That's what we're talking about. We have two applications. Oh, yes. So this is the state. 41 state street poster. What businesses at 41 states? Oh, that's the. The T shop, the North branch. T shop. Okay. And it's the wall facing the river that we're talking about. Okay. What we would like to do is install. A poster, like the one that's on the onion river outdoor building. The one that's done the three photographs by Elliott Berg. It's printed on a. Fabric, like a tie deck fabric. It's used for billboards. But what we want to do is install it's another image on that building. In the same style. I mean, the same, the same way, using the same material, the same methods. Would you like me to share screen? It'll be on zoom. And it'll be up there to share the application. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. The zoom image of us. And these are just representative pieces. Oh, well, that's the actual. What we did is we asked for proposals for. Installing art on buildings downtown. And we selected a couple of images. Or for doing this. And these, this is one of the. This is one of the applications that we approved. And so we would like to install that image on that building either in one of those two places. But they're both not going out. No, just one. Okay. Just one. Oh, just. Yeah, the one location or the other location. Okay. Do you have a preference as to which location you. I think the B location is more. It's a little bit more space. But I'm not. I'm not exactly sure if it's. I think it might be. Yeah, it might be a little bit more. It might be a foot difference in width. Is this rigid at all? What's that? Is it rigid at all? No, no, it's a fabric. It's like a Tyvek fabric. Okay. Not pulling fabric, but it's not put on anything. Well, it would be on a stretcher. Yeah. Two by four stretcher. Okay. And the. Anchors would go. See there's. There's information there, but the anchors would go into the mortar. And that would hold. The structures away from the building. So it wouldn't be. It wouldn't. Be really on the building itself would be sort of. A little bit off. And held by the anchors. And how long do they. Are they planning on leaving them up? Well, it's a temporary installation. It's a temporary installation. It's a temporary installation. It's a temporary installation. And the material. Wouldn't last more than three years. It's probably more like a two year installation. Our plan. Is to rotate images. With using the same anchors. So we would, we would install the anchors into the mortar. And after a two year period. When the material is starting. Before it starts to degrade. We'd replace the image. I thought I understood you to say that these are photographs. Oh, no, no. Elliott's Elliott Berg's piece. On the on your outdoor building as a photograph. But that's the option of doing a painting. Any kind of art. You could blow up the image. And print it on that fabric. So it could be a photograph. It could be a painting that's imaged. It could be a graphic that's done on the computer and anything. But as long as the. Quality of the image are good enough. You could blow it up to that size. And this is the representation of the image that you're contemplating. Yes. Anybody else have any questions. I mean, I don't. Not. It matters here, but I assume you're putting this up with some sort of lift from the sidewalk. Right. Exactly. Yeah. We. That's what we did. Oh, yeah. Sorry. We use the same lift that we're going to use for installing the mural on that backside of the rec center. Yeah. Yeah. Which is beautiful, by the way. Nice job. Thank you. We're very happy with it. Yeah. It's great. Can I ask just to clarify anything just because I've been in discussions of this. So just two things. So is this, this is a request for. The alter the options of a or B, depending on where things could be placed, right? Because there's a question of whether or not the lift can get out to be safely right over the river. Or is it more of a sizing issue? I think it's a sizing issue. I, I mean. Well, I. Ward Joyce who has experience with that lift says it wouldn't be a problem getting to that location. I would admit, I'll think it would be. Okay. Okay. So you're hoping for you to have the option of a or B. Right. And then if you could. And then was it. And then if there was an installation where it was a both where you wanted to use both, is that what you wanted as well? Or just a, or B, and that would be. We would have wanted one image at a time. I wouldn't want to put two images there. Okay. And then this is. Is this approval for. Images there, no matter what they are within that size area, right? You can switch them out before without having to come back here as long as it is actually public art. Right. Right. Right. That's the best idea. The plan is for us to approve either area. Yes. Okay. How many anchors are you intending to put it? I'm not the one that's done these installations before Ward Joyce on our commission has done it. I assume there's two to three on the bottom. And it must be at least four vertical. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly, but he's, that's what he's, he did for the installation. And this is no bigger than the installation that's on the, on your outdoor building. And that's been there for six years. I don't know exactly how many he used. For that. So. A dozen or 15 anchors. So it's. Six. I'm looking for approximate. Yeah. 16 is probably. Okay. Probably probably 12 to 16 is, but more likely 16. Yeah. I would suggest that we put a condition on the permit that the. When it's taken down that they're the. Either holes be filled. I think sometimes it might be better to put a little bit of water in there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Versus pulling them out and then then regrouting or something. Yeah. Well, by looking at these anchors, it felt like then you would have all these stainless steel kind of. Shiny spots. Shiny spots. That I would. Not exactly knowing how they're going in. I'd probably inclined to try and. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Or some sort of in there with some sort of adhesive. It's a. Pretty sure it's a lead anchor. That. The stainless steel would. Go into. And the plan would be. When you take them out to probably. Just use cock is what. Word. Word. Talk to the historic preservation. Group about this. When he, when he got approval for the. When you were out doors space and he said, he would just talk the holes. Holded the anchors out. Yeah. But we could do. Route or something else if that was, what was more appropriate. Yeah, I think pulling the anchors out and filling, filling the hole with. The appropriate thing is the right thing to do. I don't know what that appropriate thing is, but having all those stainless. Yeah. Things on the side of the building seems weird. Especially because I doubt they're all going to go in perfectly. They're going to be. Right. Mismatch tights. Yeah. We wouldn't leave them. Just. Yep. Are there any questions or. Comments. From the public. Hearing that now I've got a form. Who's the artist prop. Who's the artist. She's an art teacher at 32. Shartran. Is her last name. What's the name. Sorry. Maybe it's Christine. Shartran. Is that an application? I'm sorry. The artist. Name of the artist. Is the last name. Is the last name. Is the last name. Is the last name. Is the last name. Is the last name. Shartran. Shartran. Shartran. The artist. Name of the artist. Is the last name. I might be a little. It might be a list of short trend or it might be. Shartran. Shartran. Okay. Thank you. And your intention is kind of keep this going and. Rotate it. Exactly. That's the idea. Yeah. It's. It's very inexpensive to get the. These printed. And it's not a. It doesn't look good. And it's not a, it doesn't last a long time, but if you could do it inexpensively to get these printed, it could really be a very dynamic installation that changes regularly and be very interesting to the downtown. I have some questions about large art on the side of a historic building, but as long as it's reversible. Yeah, it's clearly reversible. And it's a temporary installation. Okay, I've got the all projects criteria to fill out. And for historic structures, there's three. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features which will be avoided. It's not going to do that character defining features and construction techniques or examples. Crestmanship of characters should be preserved. That's fine. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials included but not limited to physical treatments such as sand busting shall not be approved. I think it meets all those criteria. So I would say it's acceptable with the condition that if it's removed, the holes be filled. Right? Yep. The next one, existing buildings shall be recognized a physical record of their time, place and use. That's acceptable. Those landscaping is not applicable. Location and appearance of all utilities, you're not going to do a lighting or anything. It's not applicable. Staff's already done that, hold nice. I tried to help. Yeah, I know. The creation of buildings and so the whole page of things that are not applicable. Use of the state house, parcels on both river and shall be oriented so the front is really not acceptable height. If you took down to 12. Rhythm and roof shape, not applicable. Architectural features, so not be limited to cornice, stutters, fan lights and towels or trim and molding. You're not going to cover any of that stuff up. So that's acceptable. And then roof drainage systems, not acceptable signage removal, outdoor lighting fixtures, not acceptable. Not applicable, sorry. I don't think there's any other of our standards or criteria that apply to this one. Do a scan, but there are just a few that actually apply to this one, but I have to put them all on the sheet, on the form that you're going to take a look at and sign after Eric does. Recommendations, the recommendation should be, condition that be filled with appropriate material. Any other comments, questions? All in favor? Aye. Aye. That's reason of nothing. It's a date today. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Night. Okay. If you don't have to try and get it to be the next day anymore. Next is 16 Main Street installation of interactive art experience acrylic panels. Can you do the thing up on? I can. Come on, let's see what way I need to orient it once I get to the pictures. So I guess zoom it around. Sorry, it only lets me do it clockwise. That's a good, tell me where you want it, Rob, just to start with and then go to maybe the site plan. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna give an introduction to what you're doing. Yeah, so the idea is we got an application from Mike Turner and Kate, sorry, better last name, but they're with Arcana Workshop Studio in Barry. And what they want to do is take these acrylic panels and have dyes flowing across them, different color dyes. So each panel will be different, but they'll all be organically colored. They'll be organic colors flowing through them. And they would be set on concrete bases. The bases would actually be on the ground. So you wouldn't see the concrete bases, but they would sit a bit, they'd be about six feet high, I don't think two and a half feet wide, but these acrylic panels would be, you could walk around them and there'd be about six of them. And where are they going? Well, we would like to place them in that new park across the street on Main Street right next to the drawing board. Okay. Oh, the mound. Yeah. The old M&M beverage was. Exactly. So basically creating an interactive sculpture experience in that location. And this sounds concrete. It sounds like it intends to be permanent. Well, no, this is a temporary installation as well because it's not really not a big money investment. It's very minimal in terms of the total dollars. So the frames around them is gonna be wood and that'll degrade over time. And it's not, I'm not sure how long the panels themselves would last, but it's planned as a two year installation basically to see how it works. You know, if it is super successful, we might do something more permanent in the future, but that's a whole nother story. We might do something different, but basically the idea behind the RFP that we had issued back in January was that we wanted to throw a little bit of money in a lot of different places and see how they worked for temporary installations. And then, you know, maybe we'd have some one thing or two things or three things that were successful, but we'd, you know, try to make it more permanent if it was very successful. And if it wasn't that successful, we could move on and do something else. But this idea behind this was it was a temporary installation. My definition of temporary is anything shorter forever. So shorter than what? Anything shorter forever. So I think that what I would like to do is ask you to come back to design your viewing and renew the permit if you go beyond that. Does that work? Beyond the two years? Yeah. Give you a permit for two years. Okay. What I hate to see is stuff that deteriorates and is important. Right, right. No, yeah, that's, yeah. You guys don't want either. No, no, no, we're not gonna let things just sit there and definitely not deteriorate. That sounds interesting. Yeah, it'll be, it's dynamic and exciting. And I think it'll really get people involved and want to interact with it. So people want to see how the colors change with the light and looking through and seeing other people through the panels. It'll be, I think it'll be very interesting. Go behind it with the flash. Yeah, you can do it at night with lights. Yeah. Rob, I have some concern about the concrete footings. Are those gonna be in ground? Yeah, that was the plan. And you're intending to leave those permanently? No, no, if we're taking the piece out, the concrete bases would come with it. Okay, so those are part of the temporary. Right. I have, are you done? Sorry. I mean, I have a lot of faith in Arcana and I think the work that they do is really pretty unique and pretty awesome. Without seeing these renderings, I have some concerns about the stability of the pieces based on like the public being able to kind of pull on them and them. Right. And I realize these renderings are not actually how they're gonna get constructed, but I don't really know what my guidance is here, but I guess it's based in that. We were hoping to stake them down as well. So that wouldn't be just be the base, but also put stakes in it to hold the bases. You could give some more security to the bases. Yeah, I mean, I'm imagining, well, no, I mean, I feel like I'm imagining there's three-ish bags of concrete per thing poured into a rectangle that you're gonna dig out of the ground and then stuff that in there. And then it's the connection between the sign, I'm calling it a sign, the panel to the concrete and just its ability at six feet to be able to have somebody pull that over. Just the orientation of that concrete mass is not going the best direction to be able to Right, right. Resist that overturning moment. Right, right. But again, I have faith in Mike Turner and Arcana. They've done a lot of interesting things and successfully. So I believe they know what they're doing. These renderings don't show how I imagine it's actually gonna be created. Do you have any recommendations as to what we should do to make it more stable in that way to put something that was wider? Yeah, I mean, I don't just, something that showed a little bit more dimension or I don't know that I need to see it, but some real consideration that how much weight needs to be down low and then the connection between, I mean, I see it spaced off so it's and wooden mitre joints that are drawn here or whether they're gonna get dominoed together and have a much better connection or how they're gonna, it just feel like it isn't a, what I'm seeing here is a really strong structural thing that the public would be able to like grapple with and I worry about something like that getting fall apart. I thought about if you throw some heavy rebar into the ground or the concrete around it. That could help, certainly. But there's just something that helps prevent some of that as well as, Yeah, once you get up high, it's pretty easy to topple that. If it's a concrete base a little wider, that would help too. Yeah. So these are things to consider and uncertain. Again, I want to reiterate, I have a lot of respect for those guys and feel like they know what they're doing. Yeah, I mean, if you want to leave it to us to work out the finals, or if you want me to come back with more specific drawings, we could do that too, or consider their ideas, but I understand what you're saying. Yeah, I mean, the safety aspect isn't really so much design review per view, but I do know that this was going through as well the river hazard for Audra to issue the permit on that. So I think maybe it's just something that if you can get our office a few more details, then it just makes sense to have that in the file. As to, you know, because it may be that they were waiting to figure out the exact details of how they were going to anchor it till they got confirmation on some other information. So, yeah, I would just get that information to me and Audra, especially because any tweaks to how it's all anchored, she's probably going to need to know as well the specifics of how it's all anchored together to make sure that, you know, in a flood event, those aren't ripped off from the concrete anchors as well. And that way you don't need to come back here. Okay, great. Thank you. I'm thinking about... Make sure you're near the microphone, Eric. Oh. Sorry. The putting a two-year condition and the condition, if they get damaged, you're responsible to repair them. And the suggestions that I made of heavy rewrite going down into the soil, you know, like a few feet, you just drive in with a hammer and pour the concrete around it was not a big deal. Right. That one might be an option. Yeah, and I'm going to put a such as. Awesome. And a wider base. So there's more leverage. Yeah. The whole counteractive approach. Anybody that's on, want to make a comment? Everybody we have on and here in the room is either part of the meeting, recording the meeting or applicants. Okay. And nobody has a hand raised. We're good. I still got a form for 41 states. This is 16 states. Oh, actually, I think it is a two. Sorry about that. Yep. I had a duplicate. I can do two just to be the one. 16 Main Street. Yes, there you go. I think for new construction, it's acceptable. The only show we recognize is not happening. Anybody has any objection to this? Just stop me. Close landscaping should be compatible with the neighborhood of the site. That's I don't know what this is. Landscaping or not. I left. I also left that up because I wasn't sure if there was going to be any landscaping with this. It wasn't clear. There's no lighting or anything with it. No. Unless somebody shows up for the first night. And then the rest of the two got location. All durations to buildings. These are the state of stone. We're not applicable. All the rest of these criteria. I don't need to read it. No, you don't need to read all the ones that I already. Just the last one, number 16, because this is kind of a site furnishing, kind of a site furnishing. Site furnishings, including fencing, seating, and other types of site furniture. Yeah, just landscaping. Your key architectural pattern is mechanical. That's all acceptable. I am going to put in two years. See, standard responsibility for any repairs or maintenance and that measures stability installation, such as wider base into the ground. OK, all in favor. I'm a yes. Yes, you can get it over too. I want the exercise. Six of these. Six of these. Thank you. So we should have the permits ready and the next day or two. And should we just pass them to Kevin? Should we email you? Pass them to Kevin? OK. And then the permits will have the permit and then there'll be the notice of permit on a blue card. That blue card will need to be posted at the sites where the installations are going to go, somewhere in public view. So the one on State Street could probably go in the front door window, maybe. That would be protected from the weather. The one across the street here, I would say somehow put it in like a Ziploc baggie and tack it to a post or something in the parcel. I know that's a little tough because you're like, well, how long is it going to stay there? But I don't know what else to do in a vacant lot. There's just not a whole lot of great ways to protect it there and actually have it on the parcel. Thank you so much, Rob. OK, 14 State Street, Vermont rental solution. Shannon, you are up. Thank you for your patience. Sure, absolutely. That's just luck. Well, we wanted to make sure everybody could hear even those in the audience here. That's good. Shannon, you want to just talk about your project a little bit? I will either you could share your screen if you want to, or I can share the application here. Yeah, you could go ahead and share if you don't mind. Not in the least. I will get down to where it shows the sign. I am opening a deli at 14 State Street. And my applications are to hang up two signs that say the name of my business, which is N-up. So there's the projecting sign. I'm just showing that right now. And that doesn't quite show what you're looking at. Let me see if I can get there is the good one. Yes, so they're both the same sign made by the same manufacturer. But the one that's protruding from the building is just a mini size of this one. And that's a photo of the actual sign. So this is the sign that would go on the building. If that's that one right there. Yes. And you have there is a picture of the building up higher. So it would go in the middle of the, yes, right here. What is the sign made of, Shannon? It is 12 gauge galvanized steel painted black. Or is it a metal color? It's white. The sign is white. It's the color that you can see. Yeah, because the sign area there is already been painted black by the property owner. He did that consistently on the multiple sign band areas he has on that property. So that's already black. OK. Yeah, it's brown. And the brown. Brown, yeah. Chocolate brown painted exterior. Chocolate brown, my bad. So the sign is powder coated and it's white. And if you scroll down to the actual sign, you'll see that that is the actual color of the sign. It's just the letters are cut out, right? And you're just applying. Make sure you're writing things on this. Just the letters. So here, what you're showing there is a background, not a mounting board, right? That's the floor. Yeah, that's the floor. Yes, you're correct. It's just the letters. Yes, the letters are cut out. Oh, OK, I see. Yes. And then you're using the holes that are in those in the E in the N in the A for nails or screws to be able to. The hardware actually came with the sign and that is there's a photo of it right there. Yeah. Oh, I see those. Those are standoffs, those things. Yeah. This is going to sit in. That sign is going to be projecting away from the building. There's going to be about an inch or so behind the sign. Half an inch, yes. So the manufacturers of the sign also sent the hardware with it, so it's designed to go with the sign. And the projecting sign, is that also cut out letters? That happens from Diana, but that's fine. Shannon? Yes, yes, it's exactly the same. Yes, yes. It's just a smaller version. And then I assume you're going to paint the heads of the nails. So they're already painted, maybe? Oh, and I have them right here. If they're not, yeah, they're really, really small. I don't think you're going to see it from like the street. I believe that. But I can paint them if they show, I'll certainly paint them. Any lighting? Yes, the landlord has lighting that he just installed on the building that was here. That is part of it. If you flip it up, I think there's a picture that shows where the sign is placed. And there's lighting that was before. I've got it up there next. That the landlord had put for all of his sign band areas. He had this boost next foot in earlier this year. You're here. Anybody else have any questions? Hearing none. We'll give a shot at the criteria. It says signs in the design control district. The sign, the size, location, color, texture, lighting, and material of all exterior signs will be compatible with the building and structures of the site. I would say that's acceptable. For appropriate signings for respect to the original sign placement in the sand biance, acceptable. The building has multiple tenants. There should be consistency in the placement of the signs among all the signs. I would say that's acceptable. It's recommended sign placement be centered over building entries. Really can't be counted. In the middle of the sign. Yeah, it can't really close enough. I mean, it's it's over the window. I just want to say it's centered on the sign band. Yeah, weird. It was off to the size of the sign next to the top. Not applicable. You're not going to be the mortar judge. Right. I only give you one recommendation for him. And there's two signs, right? There's the projecting sign and the wall sign. So I don't know if you want to the projecting sign. Looks like it's centered over the entrance. Where's the wall sign? So maybe just sorry about that. This is my bad. It's centered on sign band projecting sign over entrance. Thank you, Ben. And this one. The blade sign is this is the hardware that's holding it. Yeah, and it showed that if you flip again, there's the S. People begin, there's S hooks and the chains to hang from that. That's the same. It's basically the exact same thing, the exact same thing, just hanging. Yep. Sign design, color, superficial, respect, historic precedence were appropriate. I think that's acceptable. Sign support structures will become battle with the building architecture. It must not be overly complex or dominant. Acceptable. I think fixtures on facades, but sorry. Now those are already just not after any other comments. Any, any other recommendations? No. Are you good with the modding? Thank you. All in favor? I say yes. Hi, yes. And I'm going to give this to Meredith and Shannon, you can come in and sign it, right? Yep. So Shannon, it's up to you. You can either come into the office tomorrow and sign the recommendation form or I can email it to you. Do you have a preference? Yeah, if you can email it, that would be great. I'm open tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, of course, yes. So I will email it to you and then when you get a chance to sign it and send it back and then we'll be able to get you your permit. And we can either mail the permit to you or you can come in and pick it up. So we'll, or heck, I could just walk it over. And we'll figure that out when you email back the signed recommendation form so we can get that permit out the door, OK? OK, so I have to wait until I have the permit in hand to hang up the sign. Is that correct? You're kind of supposed to. What time do you open tomorrow? No, it's OK. No, what time do you open tomorrow? 8 o'clock. But I probably won't have time to do it tomorrow anyway. I'm just making sure that I know. You can put anything you want inside your window. Yeah, I have it in the window now and it's fine. OK, so I'm not going to run around and ding you because you put it up. But what I'll do is before I leave here tonight, I'll email you this form so you can get it back so we can get the permit signed out the door as soon as possible tomorrow, OK? And I will try to email you. Thank you, I really appreciate that. OK. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks, everyone. You're welcome, Janice. Good luck. Thank you. Bye. OK, the next application is for 90 Berry Street, ADA ramp. If you need to, feel free to move that microphone between the two of you, both you just pick it up and lift it over the laptop and stick it between you. Thank you. OK, good. Thanks. Oh, OK. I'm Michael Curtis from Washington County Mental Health, Washington County Owns of Building. It has for 25 years or so. It was funded through VHCB. Before the pandemic, we were granted VHCB monies to fix the roof and some other stuff and some CDBG money to complete those repairs and also make an accessible apartment on the first floor. And I'm Joel Page with Scott Partners Architects. You're going to have to speak up or pull back. Hi, I'm Joel Page with Scott Partners Architects and we're the project architect assisting these guys. I watched by the building today and it's a beautiful building. It's getting better. It's getting better. It's taking a while. Looking at the building, standing on Berry Street, looking at the building, where do you project that the ramp will go? OK, if you go up the driveway to the building. OK. There's, you can see where people parked that way. It's that side of the building. OK, so it's not basic. It's not going to be on Berry Street then. No, that would be more like a carnival ride than ADA ramp. OK, I can share screen. It's just I'm going to try to figure it's going to take some funky maneuvering to share the different parts. This is looking like a wood-framed ramp. Basically pressure treated. Yep, pretty straightforward, simple construction. Hungry piers, you know. Yep. And then I'm looking at I'm looking at forced sections. So I'm only seeing handrail on one side. But so there would be a handrail on the other side. It's designed to meet ADA requirements. So handrail on both sides, little curb. You're putting the railing across the porch, right? Correct. So you basically where the parking area is, you'd have immediate access off the parking area to the beginning of the ramp. And it's just going to be treated in what color? I don't think we have to sign it on a color, but it would be coordinated with how we're going to paint the building. So probably if we're going to we haven't really talked about where it's just painted. Yeah, so whatever it was gray or something. So you said the building was just painted. So similar to these pictures. Right. So it'll be it'll somehow coordinate with what the colors we've got right now. Yeah, same scheme. Right. We got that was done by the lead program a couple of years ago. No, it's a paint job. Granted funky. Don't you have to wait a year when you're using pressure treated? You have to allow it to dry out. Doesn't necessarily have to be a year, but it has to get to a good acclimated point. Except paint. And roof and I worry a little bit about snow landing on it. I can't exactly tell if they're dry, but it's outside the roof. Yeah, there is a gutter, but they will have to maintain it. There will be potential for snow. And that is right above the center of it, right? Right. I guess that's not our thing, but that doesn't seem ideal to me. Well, it's the challenges we have. Yeah, I understand. One of the things that Steve Everett, who's a chair sometimes suggests is using a metal grate when there's snow and water rather than pressure treated so that it just falls slow. Yeah, it's a much more expensive cost if we were going to do a whole run of it. That's what we ended up having to do. So I think if these guys can do their diligence and do the maintenance required, it should be. Are you going to put down any of those traction, stick on traction? Right, not at the moment. But I guess we will see how the tenant is and then accommodate that. Not, like I said, it's not our design review. Usually follow the requirements of the ADA and then adapt as we need to per person. Eric, just to, you know, you could give them the option to do that steel grating on the ramp if it ends up being something they can work into the budget and then they don't have to come back if they change that material. OK, I can do that. And OK, it just gives you an option if you can find a way to work into a budget. So it would then be less maintenance potentially. Budgets a little thin. Yeah, I know. I know. Case you found a miracle grant or donor somewhere. I just want to make sure you had that option so you wouldn't have to come back and get another permit for it. Permits good for two years. Any other questions or anything? Oh, no, but I'm a big advocate for providing handicapped access for a number of reasons. Thank you for doing that. OK, now I'm going to find the right one. That one I just didn't read the few things that apply. OK, this is only a few. This is for historic structures. You're not removing any historic materials. You're not impacting any character defining features or you're not causing any damage to historic materials. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place. That's this is acceptable. So handicapped ramp, simple handicapped ramp. Perfect. And we've got a lot of non-academic here. And then we get architectural features. Architectural features are not limited to when those. Shall be considered in the alteration of the building where you're really not altering the building. I would say that's acceptable. And I think simple solutions are almost always better. I do have one more comment after I flip the page. Sorry. Oh, did I miss one? No, you're looking at the application. Oh, I did miss one alteration of the buildings. All for public safety. Coach will be designed to maintain the character of the material. That's acceptable. So then still does have a question. And it's more just a comment regarding the. The the the railing on the exterior of the ramp. And all the the wooden pickets as it marches up the ramp. Don't believe all those are required by the time that you get to 30 inches, then they're required, but as both maintenance and visual lightness and less material to purchase, I don't think you need those. I can agree. And so we can we can simplify that. That's that could be options. Yeah, pressure tree hasn't come down yet. No, and I think it just it puts a lot of visual clutter on a little beautiful building that's unnecessary. So then I'm going to put that as an option is just removing the railings. Yeah, you still need the handrails, but you don't need all the vertical. OK, so you'll need the handrail because we're below 30 inches. You don't need a guardrail and we'll need a curb on the edge. Yeah, but you don't need all the four inch fall protections. Yeah, probably not going to save you enough money to put in the grating. You might not, but it will lessen some of the impact of maybe the more it should be more of a see-through. The grating floor is an option and removing verticals and the railings. Some of the verticals, I guess. And that way just resort to building to the fires versus making it look exactly like the rest of the railings of the building. Yeah. The I did forget one of the criteria, porches and stairs. Location important shall be placed. And it's not impact or undermine the original significant ornamentation of the building. No, stairs ramp shall be employed. So the detailing to connect can be compatible with a shark. I didn't think it does that stairs and ramp. I think it's a good idea, though, to just provide a little more transparency through there, since it doesn't look like there's ever a railing on that porch. You don't need it above 30 and below 30 inches. You know, that's what I thought. Yeah, stairs and ramps should be designed in a manner of details and materials to provide the most sense of incompatible structure that fits the building. That's all acceptable. Oh, I guess all in favor. Aye. Aye. Aye. OK. One of you needs to sign this. Preferably someone with authority from the applicant, applicant for order, I guess. We'll get that out the next day or two. Would you prefer it mailed to you? Or do you want somebody to email you and have you just come and pick it up? The latter. OK, I'll make sure to. Audra issues, she knows you. Hold on. I have. Yes, I want to make sure I had your email address. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate you taking care of the building. That's the end of the applications. We probably can't do the minutes. I don't think so. No. I'm the only one here who was at that meeting. I'm the only one here who was at that meeting. OK, so. Other business. Not for me. Just a plea to anybody watching via Urca to if you're interested in being on the design review committee to please contact me. We could use some additional members. The thing I guess I could have put it in the comments of the chair. But yeah, I'd make fun. The. Historic Preservation Commission has been charged and received a grant for developing guidelines for the design review committee. And we would anybody that wants to participate in that and members of the design review committee, particularly. We have hired Brandy Saxton to do the work and anything I would certainly appreciate any input from the design review committee members that. Of what needs to be illustrated, you know, in any good pictures. Of of things are what you feel a public. Needs the most information about. You know, the next HPC meeting will be Tuesday, August 10th. And we'll actually that the plan is to be meeting with Brandy and hashing out the table of contents and some lists of illustrations that she might be putting together as well as photographs of buildings around Montpelier or other cities to work into the guidelines that are illustrated for how to use the design review regulations. So feel free to contact me if you want some other information, but we would love to see you and get your input as we go along. Maximum participation, because at this point there are four members. There hopefully will be four members of HPC as of this Wednesday. Our first member is going to be appointed this Wednesday. And since design review is the one that are going to be using these things and input would be appreciated. OK, since I can call a meeting to order, I could also. Caval adjournment. Wow, we didn't even have a second. We didn't have to motion. We didn't have to do anything. Just get that out a lot. We're done. All right. Thank you, Eric.