 Thank you, thank you for all of you that are joining us live for today's guest. We have Alicia Hancock with us today all the way from Australia to talk to us about the philanthropic culture, and Alicia and her team Hancock creative are really involved globally with philanthropy and so we're really looking forward to learning to learn from you and the trends for for the sector so again if you haven't met us yet Julia Patrick is here CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I'm Jared ransom your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group, both Julie and I are extremely grateful to have the gracious support of our presenting sponsors. Thanks so much to blooming American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy nonprofit nerd your part time controller, the nonprofit Atlas the nonprofit thought leader and staffing boutique again thank you for your continued support. In our episodes and truly in the sector at large we are so very grateful to have you as part of our greater community. And again today's guest joins us from Australia you might get tired of us saying that. To be told Julie and I both reached out to Alicia and her team to say we need you on the nonprofit show. We started as a national national show and we have grown over the last three years, and truly have made our way into the international space and having so many guests and viewers listeners honestly across the globe so we are growing and going and thrilled to have you with us Alicia welcome. Thank you so much for having me is my absolute pleasure to be able to dial in and hopefully my internet gets over its shock about the fact it's you know 130 in the morning for me here and stays a bit more stable from here on in. I'm in shock that you would do this for us at 130 in the morning. I want our viewers to understand and we were talking about this in the green room chatter. It's hard, even just the time zones in our own country to do this with you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You know, as I say it was just an absolutely no rain for me as soon as Jess my events coordinator said there was an opportunity chat with both of you I was like, it's going to be the middle of the night, but it's going to be great. So the question Alicia, did you stay up, or did you go to bed we need to know how this works. I had to stay up. Okay, as I said to you in the early chat I've been quite sick the last few days and tons of lighters if I had gone to sleep. This would not have been happening and this would not have been happening. So definitely just pushed through and I've actually spent the last hour to watching some episodes of your show so it was a good way to spend my time. Oh my gosh, well we're honored. Well before we get going. And we have so many things to ask you we're so curious. Briefly talk to us about your company first, and that might give us kind of a lens with which we can hear what your responses are to some of our cookie questions. Absolutely no no my pleasure. So I'm the founder and director of Hancock creative. We've been around for 11 years now believe it or not. It's crazy. But we first started out as a totally different business than we are now but we're 100% focused on working with not for profits. Social impact organizations. The terminology we use is people are changing the world. So anybody who's a worthy cause doing things better. Socialize is quite different. We really focus on how nonprofits and causes can tell their story to reach the right people at the right time. And 90% of the time in 2022 that means we're talking about digital marketing and we're talking about social media. So to not to borrow one of your words but I like to nerd out about not just not for profit stuff but about technology and social media as well. Very much the lens I talked to and I guess that's why we have clients around the world now because people are trying to figure out what's working and what's not in this in this kind of news uncharted waters. You are my new best friend we can nerd out anytime I will make sure that you get a pair of these glasses. You have them handy right. It's very important. Well as we talk about in Julia you may be grabbing yours, but I love love to hear about the philanthropy, you know, as the landscape looks in Australia, and what you've seen and you mentioned the digital space the digital age could agree more I was actually on a call earlier today and talking about, you know, a statewide organization and how we might manage the different constituency base but you know really this individual said, it's normal to meet on the computer so that digital space is becoming, you know, acceptable. So what have you seen throughout the landscape of Australia when it comes to these, you know, philanthropic areas. Yeah of course and look there's always going to be some differences, particularly even in things like terminology, like here in Australia I think this is perception that philanthropy is kind of this highfalutin thing. This is for the big corporates philanthropy is for your high net worth individuals. philanthropy is not about individuals donating that's more about giving or donation so you know a family who gives 5% of income every year wouldn't consider themselves to be philanthropist so I think that's kind of an interesting shift in terminology just to begin with. But the big thing we're seeing in Australia at the moment is over the last few years, overall giving or donations in Australia has increased. So that's been really positive. The thing that's really concerning for me though is when you actually dig into these statistics. People are giving more, but less people are actually giving kind of horrified to admit the latest research shows that only just under 27% of Australians are now actually active donors to a charity. So that's a really big concern particularly with what's happened over here in the last few years between the bushfires that you would have heard about over there. And we have obviously had COVID so many things have changed in the last year or two it's really impacted the space and given only 27% of people are actually giving. That's definitely a big area of concern for us. Is that a really different number to what you see over there. That is fascinating and and sad you're right and so I we have seen an increase in giving and we've also seen an increase in the number of people giving and what I have seen Alicia truly is, you know, we too here in the US. A philanthropy is kind of the elite of the elite right and so there's a misnomer to the definition because as you said, it's not about how much you give it's the simple act of giving. And I have seen an increase in the amount of people giving, if it's $5 if it's $15 it's just the sheer act of doing good with their financial contribution. And thankfully we have also seen, you know, our national numbers go up. So not only the number of people giving but also the amount of financial donations being received has has gone up. But you're right I mean to see this and to know that there's been so many catastrophes for you there. Absolutely the bushfires right that these natural disasters. The organization that you know the environment everyone needs the support so it's you know 27% I would say, I don't know. I think so. I absolutely think so and look, I think that's part of the interesting conversation to today of how we rethink philanthropy how we rethink about the different ways we give and support and I know these are all good things we're going to talk about but you know it's quite scary that this is like a 40 year low for Australia in terms of people donating. But there's also this backlash effect that every country in the world sees after a big crisis. So when the bushfires rage in 2019 2020 I mean this wasn't something limited just to Australian donations we were seeing people from all around the world giving you know there were celebrities like pink who was donating a million dollars and you know it was making international news and so it needed to it was it was really quite catastrophic and it spread across the whole country. And just when we kind of thought we were coming out the other side charities were starting to breathe and go right. Well, we don't have this huge draw things are starting to go back to normal then obviously COVID happened. And it has been a really big time of change for the sector because so many people through a crisis will will donate and support that particular thing that everyone's talking about. But then what happens during that time to the animal welfare charity the environmental charity, the cancer charity the medical research charity. They maybe aren't getting their donation this year because that family chose to give to the bushfire appeal instead. But you know there's so many, so many opportunities that come out of this as well I mean I don't know if you saw over there but there was a meeting in Australia called Celeste Barbara and she actually ran a Facebook fundraiser for the bushfires and it is now globally as far as I know still globally the single biggest Facebook fundraiser ever run in the entire world. She raised $51 million for the bushfire appeal so it also brings new opportunities because suddenly a lot of people got comfortable with giving online and supporting in a new way and I think COVID's made so many charities rethink the way they communicate with their audiences that they've just had no choice. It's just had to evolve and it's evolved faster than we've ever seen before. Right. What about sorry Julia what about the donor involvement you know you had said really you know individuals are giving some some giving more than before. Are they comfortable they're comfortable donating online but what about giving of their time are they leaning into the community to serve. Absolutely look and I think that's really starting to shift now I mean the thing is whenever we get statistics we know they're already out of date. But the reality is we know that sort of 70% of Australians give goods so giving actual products and things is a really big part of the community volunteering time a third of all Australians volunteer their time to an organization and nonprofit. There are many different ways you can give an engage that isn't just about, you know, making a one off or regular financial contribution. And I do feel and you're probably seeing it as well I mean I know my, my clients in the States in Canada, saying the same things to me. I think that's going to change in the way we think over the last year whether it's you know the great resignation or people changing how they feel about how they work and how they do things. We're getting more focused on family we're getting more focused on what matters to us. And I actually think that's going to come back around to people being so much more aware of how they can give back and connect. I know where that's changing a lot is particularly when we get to our younger generations. We know that Gen Y and Gen Z, they actually don't know the difference between a charity and a social enterprise. So, the way we're giving an impacting is evolving that way to it's not just about supporting charity now it's about how do we do good, and sometimes doing good is through the products we choose to buy all. Yes. It's not that kind of avenue like charity water and brands like that will support those organizations and they don't really see the difference between that and a charity. You know it's so fascinating we're seeing a big push here. It started with the private schools because they had a little bit more flexibility and curriculum standards standards but a drive to end the work the school week early on Fridays at noon. With the expectation and the reporting of those students doing something philanthropic for the balance of the day, whether the school organizes it or they do it. The students do it or whatever and we're seeing huge numbers. And I've been talking to a lot of nonprofits that actually it's put a little bit of stress on them because they're like, Oh my gosh, Friday afternoons we have this influx of volunteers that are younger. And we've got to try and figure out how to navigate that. Right. But it's, I think it's this whole concept that if we start with our children, then we develop a pattern and a habit that then hopefully carries through the rest of their life, especially when they start to become income generating members of a society. I love that concept I haven't heard that before. I actually lecture at university here and my students actually have to partner with the not for profit and do their final assignment they have to create a social media campaign for a charity so look I love that concept. But I think what it comes back to is trust. Like, I feel that some of the trust with the nonprofit sector has eroded over the last few years. We saw with that $51 million fundraising campaign that actually ended up in the courts over here in Australia and there was a lot of controversy about it. Some of our largest charities were heavily criticized for stock piling funds in tended for families impacted by the bushfires and they're very much is this mentality sometimes that you can't trust the big charities anymore. And look something I very much disagree with because if we shift back the other way to all these tiny grassroots organizations, you know they play a really important role as well. The impact is only this big and their ability to give money in the right way and have the impact they need to isn't probably the same. So we need this economy we have the small grassroots we have some medium we have the large we need everybody. And but I'm a big fan of finding new ways to be sustainable and not just relying on the government funding every year or that charitable giving, which is why I love that sort of evolution of the social enterprise model if you will. Yeah. Oh, that is getting juicy. Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. So I have a quick question in Australia so in the US, the internal revenues service which is our taxing authority is the one that gives the go ahead and the legal documentation for an organization to act as a nonprofit. So what is the structure in Australia who is is giving permission or giving the the paperwork green light so to speak to charitable organizations were actually very similar structure to the US and Canada, compared to other countries so and taxation office is the same. So they officially it's like the 501 C I think certification, we get a very similar style certification where they're registered as an official not for profit is how they refer to here. And it's a tax category, where they don't pay the same tax and things like that. Now this is where social enterprises get interesting because anybody can say they're a social enterprise there isn't really a concrete. There's no regulation around in Australia I know there's not really in the US yet. Kind of anyone can claim it. So for me it all comes back to telling the stories, like likewise a lot of people don't trust these big charities, but it's because they're just not opening up they're not being transparent and they're not telling people what they're doing where the money is going and they're trying to be too professional and corporate and they're not revealing kind of the ins and outs like I don't know if you've seen over there in Australian company that's launched over in the US during the pandemic called who gives a crap, a toilet paper company. No it's a huge thing over in Australia now it's a subscription toilet paper company, they literally opened in the US like two weeks before the pandemic so they obviously did had, you know, great foresight. But it's a social enterprise, but they are so open about where their money goes and you know 50% of all their profits are donated back to sanitation projects around the world. And it's such a great model but I know from the founder he said you know he gets criticized so much more than I don't know what you're leading brand of toilet paper is over there but you know people quite happy to pay money for toilet paper but when suddenly you say it's for social impact, people have a lot of questions and I think they should and I think that questions you need to be out answer. And that's where the beauty of social media comes in, you need to tell their stories people need to understand where it goes and how you work. We need to be transparent and having these conversations because that's how we're going to get people following us and supporting us in the future. I'll have to research that as well you've given me quite a few things to take a look at. What do you think as we move into this and I love the concept and the conversation around social enterprise and what do you think are some of the future, you know trends what are we looking at in philanthropy and we could talk about you know a culture of philanthropy I think non stop, and I would love to in fact but what are you seeing Alicia if you could pull out that crystal ball again and you know make sure you shine it get a good clear view. Thanks Julia. What, what are you what are you seeing as future future trends. Thanks for the research. It all says statistically that philanthropy is going to bounce back this year this is the year is going to turn around for a lot of causes and I definitely hope that is the case. But I think more we're seeing is that the way we donate and give is going to change the way we interact with causes nonprofits social enterprises. We kind of a brave new world, like Celeste Barbara going online on Instagram and talking about her family members being evacuated during the fires raised $51 million. I think we're going to see the futures digital. Like we were talking about in our little titty chat session at the start. I live in Western Australia. We have closed borders. I haven't been able to leave my state except for compassionate grounds in two years. I just don't reopen until the third of March. I can't even travel outside of my state and considering have clients all around the country and all over the world. That's definitely been really interesting. But what that has meant is, you know, I've got clients who made say $40,000 running a Mother's Day breakfast and have come to us and gone. What do we do now? We can't get people together for breakfast. It's like, well, why don't we do a virtual breakfast and get people on Facebook to dial in and join live and do a fundraiser that way. And they're like, we can't do that. No one's going to join. They have to provide their own breakfast. What a crazy idea. And yet they've done it. And they've been surprised to see they actually had in 25, 30% increase in donations because I think, like we said, it's just more normal now. People are more open. People want to give. They want to help. They want to support people. The gap is they just don't see the organization stories. They don't know enough about what they do. They don't build enough relationship with them. And that's why, like, you know, my biggest prediction is that not for profits or nonprofits and causes that aren't embracing social media and digital marketing now. They're really going to struggle in five or 10 years. The reality is, we know that 80% of people under the age of 30 have only ever donated through a social media platform. So what's that going to mean in five years, 10 years when they're kind of me peak donors market if we haven't embraced this space. I think the future is absolutely all about where we tell our stories, how we tell our stories and how people want to engage with nonprofits. They can't do it in person. They can't do it at these big crowded events anymore. We can't meet people that way. Where are we going to do it? We're doing it through this kind of virtual conversations. The advantage is it's bringing people together. I mean, look at us on other side of the world still managing to have this great conversation. You stayed up all night to talk to us. I love it. So I want to throw a devil's advocate point of view, right? There is so much noise on social media. There's so much noise everywhere, right? So what if we are telling our story or we believe we're telling our story but we're not cutting through the clutter, right? Like how do we make sure that our stories that perhaps we are telling are actually being seen and heard? Like what are we missing? Such a great question. And this is something I hear all the time. Like I'm constantly mentoring and supporting charities all around the world. I hear the same thing. We're on Facebook every day. We're posting things. We're creating reels. We're doing the TikTok. We're doing all these things, but we're not measuring success or results. My first question to them is always really simple. What is success? Like if you said to me in 12 months time, your social media was wildly successful and was driving your organization's growth. What does that look like? And they can't tell me. So that's the problem. We're going on to social media as something we have to do. We're ticking the box to say we're there. We're creating content. We're filling space. We're joining the conversation, but we're not creating a strategy. We're not sitting down and looking at, okay, as an organization, we need to raise 15% more this year. We need to make these events virtual events. We need to recruit 300 new volunteers in the next six months. We need to sell this many new services or recruit this more many people to our programs. They need to start there. Then they go, right, well, who's the target market? Sometimes it's not social media. And I'm the first to tell people that. But if you want to reach people over the age of 55, I'm telling you it's Facebook. It's fastest growing demographic group. If you want to talk to a woman 25 to 35, you're heading to Instagram. If you want to get in touch with a teenager and you're trying to recruit younger audiences and students, you're on TikTok. You need to know where your audience is. Otherwise, you could just be creating a lot more work and not actually creating any benefit. And that's not a good look either. I'm the first to tell people if the social media is not driving results, stop doing it. You are just wasting time and money. I love that. So the first step is the definition of success. What does success on this channel or platform look like for you? And you're right, Alicia. I think there are far too many of us not measuring success, not looking at our analytics. We are just, you know, throwing content out there to tick the box, as you said, but we're really not measuring that. And therefore we're not making strategic decisions moving forward for how we could best tell our story in this digital space. I am just fascinated. I know our time is coming to an end, which means you get to go to sleep soon, I hope. I think I will be after this conversation. I think we'll be up for a while, but you'll be buzzing from excitement. Absolutely. Tell us about the summit coming up. Yeah, I'd love to remind everyone who's listening to check out this event. So it kind of leads on from what we're just talking about. If you do want to get a little bit better at social media and want to learn how to do it more strategic. We run a free digital marketing summit called Change the World. We've had over 15,000 people attend these conferences since we started running them about five or six years ago. This will be our second one for North America. And we're going to have Jen Herman who literally wrote the book Instagram for dummies in San Diego teaching you how to use Instagram as a nonprofit. We've got Deborah from the American Institute of Fundraising talking about how great fundraising can work online. I'm going to be talking like we just said, I'm going to be spending 90 minutes going deep into how to actually create a strategy that works. So if you do want to learn more about this stuff, I definitely suggest you check it out. You can either use the Hey Summit link on the screen or just go to Hancockcreative.com.au. We've got a great big countdown timer on the middle of our home page to the event you can click on that and register for a free ticket and hopefully I'll see some of you attending there as well. Awesome, awesome. You know, I love this. I know that Jared and I have with all of we've done nearly 500 episodes with all of the different types of guests we've had on. It definitely is digital is this future that we must embrace and understand and and be thoughtful about not just to your point tick the box because it's such an opportunity such an opportunity but it's not going to be easy for some organizations and it's going to be it has to be rediscovered, discovered and refined, you know, so we love that you came on, especially that you would make such an effort. For those of you who came on with us early, it's now approaching 2am in Australia, and you have been such a lovely guest and so open and forthright with your perspective is this world gets smaller. We need to hear more voices in different parts and so thank you very much for being with us. It's been remarkable and we've been honored that you would share your wisdom with us. I want to give everybody an opportunity to see Alicia Hancock's information. Again, Hancockcreative.com.au is that place where you can go on to their site and see what they're doing. It's really fascinating. And I think a great way to get some new fresh ideas. So I would encourage everyone to visit your site. Okay, Alicia, we have so many more questions. I suspect we're going to have to see you again in the hot seat. I would love to have another chat anytime. I really enjoyed it. And as you say, I think all three of us are so passionate about this topic and where the space is going, we could literally probably do this all day. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, all day every day, undoubtedly. Without a doubt. Absolutely. Well, you have been just like I said, such a trooper. And we've been so honored to have you on. I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by my intrepid co-host, the nonprofit nerd herself, Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. If you've missed this episode in the beginning or you want to share it with somebody, perhaps you want to loop back in on some of the other, as I said, nearly 500 episodes that we have. You can check us out on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV and Vimeo. As Jared always likes to say, you can speak into your smart remote and we're pretty much going to be sitting on the sofa next to you. We're working on the hologram effect so that we just show up right in front of you. Super scary. Super scary. And then we have some really exciting news that we're going to be announcing quickly, shortly, about our podcast and our episodes moving into the podcast world. And so, stay with us for that. It's some really exciting things. We've been testing it in the last couple of weeks, and we're ready to probably pull the trigger on that. And again, one more thing I'm not supposed to say. So I apologize. Thumbs up for not saying the right thing today. Oh my gosh, but I am going to say the right thing when it comes to thanking our sponsors, Blumerang, American nonprofit Academy, your part time controller, nonprofit nerd, fundraising Academy, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit Atlas. Ladies, thank you so much for joining us. What a magical way to start our day and hopefully to end your day, Alicia. Thank you. It's been amazing. Thank you so much for having me. It's just been lovely and I, I can't wait to see how your summit turns out. And I will be an interested viewer and learning along with with everyone else. So, as we end this episode, we'd like to remind everyone to stay well. So you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone.