 Hello everybody If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always my co-host Tyler. What's going on buddy? How you doing? Yeah, good feeling spicy tonight It's gonna be it's gonna be a spicy meat-a-ball tonight. We got a lot to talk about we have so much to cover tonight So excited. We're gonna talk the battle scroll. We're gonna talk the changes. We're gonna talk Dawnbringer part two. We're gonna tell you about the story. We're gonna tell you about the new iron jaws We're gonna get deep into the wall the new Allegiance armies of renown the whole deal. We're gonna do it all quickly. I say that Knowing how wrong I am in advance, but anyways Let's begin of course with the news Excellent. Yeah, I don't two hours or less. That's impossible. Let's try. Let's do it. Here we go Oh Rumor engine, let's take a look folks. What do we got here? It is my sheet of course done a sheet of course done We got a single eye going on the skull. All right. Love it excellent That's new news That's a new heights podcast reference you you're you're not a normie. You probably don't watch or listen to the new heights podcast That's fine. Yeah, that's fine So let's go with the battle scroll hold on hold on before the engine's done Here's a piece of news. Hey, guess what everybody? There's a new merch store We have a new merchants merch store and there's new items up in it You can find the link down in the description. We move it over to fourth wall Which is a really cool place everything's ethically made and stuff like that and there's lots of I already ordered some stuff And we got some new designs up in the merch store as well So like we've got the classic the three of us with the hammer, but also also we hit up our artist and We brought them back in to get us Warhammer weekly widow the dogs We had to do my wife as a I asked her what she wanted to be and she said, you know What well who has dogs and I said well I went through the different people in the world who have dogs and the different types of dogs because there's actually quite a lot of dogs Yeah, yeah running around and when I explained dire wolves and I said you could be a cool vampire lady lord lady and She was down for that so we had to do this so it's got my three dogs the fluffy hounds of hell here as dire wolves Chewing up some some paintbrushes As as well as that so we got that new new item in the store There's many different variants of this we got all sorts of fun things in there Mousepads and cups and shirts and hoodies and all those kinds of things with all of us team Tom and team Tyler and all of that So check it out Down below and we'll add more to it over time, but this is the initial launch of it. So check it out. All right Now Yes, yes Okay, let's just get straight into battle scroll here. I'm gonna actually time stamp this as its own section of the show Okay, battle scroll. Let's bring it up boom All right Important stuff here to talk about well first of all Tyler, what you think of this battle scroll before we get into the deets Yeah, pretty pretty positive. You know they hit a lot of things they need to hit So, yeah, we'll go through it, but pretty positive overall on this one. I yeah, I mean it it shows that Matt Rose and company they care. They're trying they're working on it. They're paying attention You know, it's never perfect But it has been trending in the right direction with these battle scrolls. I think that's fair to say. Yep. Yeah Agreed. Okay. Well, we got rupture and It does a completely different thing now and it's fixed. So you can't self rupture anymore. That's it. I Mean, that's it does different things now. It makes incarnates go wild, but it has to be an enemy incarnate, right? And hurts the caster who's bonded to it It can also change right off. Yeah, it can also hit endless spells No one will ever take this this won't be cast unless it's by sub by the Shaman of the chilled lands who hasn't built in and then they accidentally run up against somebody who has one of these things like You know like they run into somebody with endless bills or something in which case fine like they can't all be winners We've got two banger spells. We don't need all three is my honest answer. It's too many Okay. Yeah, they dressed obviously what they needed to address because it was a problem specific especially in Serif one. Yep So, yeah Merciless blizzard no more teleporting blizzard wizards Because you can't set up and cast the spell anymore. So That's gone. So you can't you can't slingshot your your wizard across the board than blizzard I will admit this is a thing I have done on occasion. So that trick is gone such a shame I've done it in skater's and losing Timmy points not admission. That's all right. Hey, I'm flinging rats Who are doing blizzards kid? First of all casting blizzard is the most Timmy thing you can do. Let me just say that Um I'm playing Skaven. So again fair army. It's all it's all fine That's very does suck that Skaven is at the bottom reinforcing your narrative long your long-standing multi your narrative here Yeah, so it's a some collusion potentially. All right. Yep. Yep So you can't be set up or moved earlier in this phase, right? So that's fine. We can decadent. Does that mean you can't cast a turn one? No, because you're not set up in the hero phase of turn one You're set up before the game starts which you can't have teleported in that phase This does open the door to allow the Um What's his name the Loreseeker there we go Mr. Mr. Sneaky set up within three inches of the enemy to do it, but I mean, you know, okay He could have always done it. It's not like it's a new ability. He has it just right. It's just he can do it So that's fine Okay, no reward without risk feedback overload They toned it down That's what it comes out to Yes, it's now a wizard hero is like I think they added the the hero part, didn't they? No on a four plus the wizard explodes each unit within a number of inches equal to the wounds characteristic of that wizard suffers D3 mortal ruins rule certainly for each unit. Yeah, it's just it was just a slight clarification. Yeah, mm-hmm Okay. Yeah, I wasn't sure offhand what exactly they did with this Officially clarify that no reward without risk is not doing the more than nine away But obviously I think a lot of folks in the community know by now that Yeah, you are allowed to ignore the night, you know, it doesn't exist. It's not a thing You can set up in combat potentially with with the middle. So yeah And then maelstrom Uh Basically it changed its explosion slightly in that it has to be on the six to explode Otherwise if it gets killed early, it just dies. It just Goes away. So yeah, like it's no no more like you unbind it before it gets or sorry Dispel it before it gets to the six and then you suffer the crisis anyways Which was you know always silly and fun now you can and there actually is counter play against the thing So it's cool. Yeah A little tongue-down. Yeah, like it and Then the umbral spell portal just a clarification on the movement and how all that works Okay, let's get to this some exciting stuff here. Yeah Potentially exciting let's I mean, I mean step back here for a moment So one of the things we got in this battle scroll was we got some battle tactics added to some armies And they're focusing on that as a way to Help sort of the win rate of everything of some of the forces, right that kind of thing because there's definitely a battle tactic in balance in the game And so Yes, thank you. Yeah, Gareth pointed out that karakak light loop that was stopped by that change. Yeah, absolutely correct Okay, yeah Um, oh gosh Yeah, that's that's absolutely correct. Um, I forgot all about that particular little connard there They got fixed. What do you think about battle tactics as a as a thing getting added in through here in general? Yeah, I get the critiques that are out there with it like it is Hacking at a branch, but that's where we're at. You know, I'm not sure I would expect them to try to be striking at the root here We both have issues a lot of people have issues with battle tactics I we've had a lot of conversation around all that. I like the secondary system I just think the implementation has been very rough as a first attempt of a secondary objective implementation for a OS So I don't mind it personally. I get why it's an attractive Attempt at increasing external balancing the ecosystem So, yeah I'll say, you know cinderfall gaming's in the chat and he said he you know He doesn't he doesn't like it at all because it's not addressing sort of the core stuff I don't know man. I think that's being a bit unfair Like it is a part of the game It can be a part of the game that not everybody plays or a part of the game You don't like but it is a part of the game and I think that for some section of players who are using battle tactics actively Like Putting in additional battle tactics that can be achieved or you know that are doable For these armies is a perfectly viable strategy as long as it's not the only thing that's done like it It has to be we have to have a lot of other changes here, right? We have to take a holistic view to this my main problem with it is It's once again still on the place where we're just like well The problem is people can't go easily five out of five for their battle tactics, right? It's just it's an open admission That so many armies are just five out of fiving that we've got to make it easier for other people to also go to four or five out of five right Sure, and and like I've as I've said many times if if everybody's going five out of five No one's going five out of five. Who cares who cares? It's nothing. It's just time-wasting bookmark or you know bookkeeping nonsense I think I'm pretty well on record that I hate this version of battle tactics and would just assume see them wipe from the game There are a section of people who like them I want to keep the concept of Secondary objectives we can call them battle tactics or whatever there is a concept is extremely valuable to a game in general But like this particular implementation this execution I'm not a fan of because I don't think it actually does what it's meant to be doing So at any rate, I I don't mind seeing these additional battle tactics. I think they're good. It'll be nice It'll be nice for these armies that had them But is you know, I would I as long as we see as long as we see other changes as well Which we do in here we do many great changes in here as well Then I'm fine with them as part of the more holistic thing So yeah, okay now again. I do agree That he says some of these battle tactics are goofy sure I mean, that's always gonna be the way it is But you know, you try to go flavorful you try to get what it is again If we were all just operating from a set set a group of schemes blah blah blah. We've talked about a thousand times It'd be a lot better. Yeah, I was I don't remember what thread. I was reading somewhere on Twitter that dying website I was reading somebody and somebody down at the bottom. I think oh was in response to The oh and Jackson who was talking about the 28 VP crowd, right? And he was talking about the 28 VP's threatening to ruin Warhammer and Somebody in response to all that I don't remember who it was. Maybe Colonel cabbage Maybe somebody that had said let's just go schemes and I was like, yes. Here we are Let's we're back in the mix. I'm glad to see somebody else is on board here. Okay. Let's talk about other changes So I'm gonna change. I'm actually super stoked about the great nation of Eumetrica change and the enduring as a rock change During is a rock reduce the rent by one great nation of Eumetrica reduce the rent by two fantastic. Thank God This was the most complicated rules interaction Right. Mm-hmm. Like what happened when somebody who had a rend bonus and and or then got a Horefrost and then charged into Eumetrica and it was just like well How did the effects stack and then the game just exploded right handling this interaction So going to just like Plus it was also the problem that like if you're playing Eumetrica if anybody actually had Ren 3 you were just dead instantly Right. Yeah, because then all your defenses were just gone instantly. It's just your nothing. You have nothing, right? This is a lot stronger, but you know cow mountains have a lot of still very clear weaknesses i.e huge huge Achilles heel called mortal wounds Much as and you know you pay a lot of points for not a lot of wounds with them. So yeah, I'm fine with it Yeah, I like that this change does better Potentially justify their point price right now. Yeah, like they're up there at the moment So especially Evelyn or but yeah now that you can save stack Against you know a lot of rent or sorry reduce the set reduce the rent and then still save stack That's gonna potentially keep them on a two up or at least a three up in a lot of cases. So yeah And I think to me that's that justifies their points like there was no need like that was correct Yeah, like cool give them a you know make their ability cool and better instead of Getting sucked down the the sort of circle of lowering points try to find the place where the scroll works, right? Yeah, I need to get caught in that that circle Yeah The deep thinkers can be modified mm-hmm, okay Strong strong in the current season. Yeah Okay, I mean, I don't know what else to say other than pretty potent change. I mean Luminous as much as I hate them and think they are a giant and peace NPE like pile of nonsense They have been getting kicked in the face a lot this season This yeah, and because they didn't touch techless yet So Matt and address this and the meta watch videos You may have seen right where he said that they are still seeing techless show up at a reasonable rate play rate So they decided to take a pass for the moment essentially but made this change I like this because this will seemingly help push us more toward more small heroes With you know more diversity in the LRL builds, which we talked about a number of times, right? We've had I think this bit of an odd situation where there's not been enough adaptation in the in the environment to Playing more variety in Luminous list when actually we do when you see people do it You can do really well with some of these lists late lords and dawn writers and multiple small heroes and the twins and so on and so forth Yeah, I totally agree and so you know what I think this is this is a nice change It also lets deep thinkers give you a pretty pretty strong shot at those potent spells in the current season As long as you've got primal dice to throw at them on top right to modify it that kind of thing So yeah, it's good. It's good hit I'd Neth The bloodthirsty shiver rule you can include bloodthirsty shivers in your army if the unmodified hit roll for an attack Blah blah blah they do two hits instead of one. So Okay They got better Right, I didn't check what the change was maybe somebody in the chat Gareth otherwise knows Now maybe previously was only melee now. This will work with shooting. Maybe that was the change I don't know. I'm not sure they have a double tap at all previously, but maybe I think it was only maybe their bite I think is what it was. It's might be what it was. It was just their bite Whereas now it's just like all their attacks. So, yes, we talk shooting Okay, we talked about I'm gonna try not to sorry chat I'm gonna I sometimes I do very do very well following chat you have mastered that I still have mastered yet So I'm gonna try to focus on the show tonight, but we talked about IDK My brain doesn't multitask very well, you're right there IDK they're they're tough to I Don't know they're in a weird spot, right? Because they don't have a lot of Ren they don't do a lot of mortal wounds They don't have a ton of mortal wind protection themselves, right? So they're I don't know admission to see obviously they got number point jobs, which They did but it's just a hard army. It's yeah, they they don't hit hard. They don't take a punch They don't do anything really well. It's tough. It's tough under the sea It's not a great place to be right now things are not in fact better down where it's wetter under the sea, so Okay, let's keep going Let's move on to chaos where we have pretty much the best change in the entire universe contained within this small Let's call it salmon colored box I mean more or less just the greatest thing in history. I think All right, so maggot can of nergal don't squabble children is your new your new battle tactic. Yeah Okay, you all right with this. Appreciate it. Yes as you may have caught man They had a error in the battle scroll version. They had the correct version in the actual Arata PDF Yeah, so this for the battle scroll should be reading Friendly nergal mortals units and any friendly nergal demon units robbering your floor. It is not a thing Right. Yep. So but yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. It's good. Maybe help promote little variety and list You know I'm a fan of that Yeah, it's it's fine. It'll help out They're not in a terrible situation not as rough as stormcast or scaven But they probably could have used one more battle tactic to really help them out. Sure. So yeah, I like it Skaven got a fun battle tactic as well. It was very appropriate. You got a flea with battle line units and heroes basically in the same turn Which is cool Retreating is definitely a tactic you use in Skaven. It's a thing you do all the time to win So, you know, this goes more toward like should battle tactics be win more stuff and yada yada That's all deeper discussion. We've had before but it is achievable. Certainly. So that's cool And then the greatest change in the history of war hammer probably ever Gracie or on screaming bell plague priest on plague furnace delete the pushed into battle rule Ladies and gentlemen, we got them. All right, we're there. We did it. We've peak war hammered No longer Do our stupid chariots have to be Gathered around by rats that inevitably die and leave the dumb thing stranded this Stupid appendix relic of a time when those things sat in the middle of rank and flank units that were way harder to remove Is finally dead Dead dead dead and I couldn't be happier about it I mean the screaming bell is still crap because it's just it's gonna be crap and it's current war scroll because it's It's a bad war scroll. It's just like it's just bad You can become a priest for no reason you can ring a bell with no With no actual Statistical curve to it. So anything is just as equally likely and most of the effects are bad like it's The furnace gets more intriguing though Yeah, I made the mistake of getting too close to that thing one game On one not mistake. I chose to get too close to it and then you got a rock dropped on your head big old Yeah, I took all the mortal winds Yeah, no, the the furnace actually becomes a very interesting piece without this because it getting stuck was always the only thing that That actually held it back from being an interestingly playable piece It has a big bubble of Battleshop community still which is highly valuable in the current world It does a lot of mortal wounds if you get near it. It does have a good priest on it And like the the Skaven prayers are actually quite strong and good and so like These are all good things. I guess so, you know, yeah, cool Name the show the ball plaid show or the ball the ball plaid podcast we've got we've got a nice theme going on tonight Absolutely I'm rocking I'm rocking the bright colors as always Sometime this shirt will also be available speaking of merch. This is actually from majestic 13 This is secret merch that only only Adam and I have at the moment, but at some point we'll get it out to people The slaves to darkness change around the cabalus blasphemy rich blasphemous rituals Tyler your thoughts So Again, I should have checked to see what exactly changed here. Was it in addition to my John power or balls can you carry out? I guess previously it was not limited to cabalus to cabalus heroes that Did not have the eye of the gods that that's the key change maybe now they have to have the eye of the gods keyword I was really hoping you were gonna tell me because I couldn't remember either what exactly changed All right, I'm sure someone in chat will tell us exactly what changed, but that's fine I can't remember every rule of every army. I do wish they would put the old text here So it'd be like yeah, they changed Yeah, I said that like that's that's what it was But I know the within three inches was the same you can immediately carry out the same Rook action Yeah, I think that's all it's still the same, but yeah, yeah cabalus very competitive right now At least in my mind, I mean it's not way up there, but yeah very solid what you can do with it Yeah, mega now said you're correct Tyler with you with what you guessed And then elect man 24 question for you Vince Do you think for fourth edition gw will hit the hard reset button like with 40k got making aos index hammer For a while in order to reset the power level Probably not. I don't know. I have no idea. I think a lot I think I think it'll be a refinement of the rules I don't think they'll they'll hit a hard reset now We're not near in as bad a place as 9th edition was 9th edition was so far off the rails It's it's hard to even like it's hard to conceptualize how far off of the rails it was That train had skidded off of the rails over a cliff into a rushing river been swept downstream and put out into the ocean Where it was then caught in a like giant seaweed kelpie Matt dragged to the bottom of the ocean into a volcanic geyser where it was then subsumed down into the inner core of the earth That's how far off the rails it was You know, it's amazing sometimes you can just do that It all comes out. It's a gift It's a blessing and a curse. All right night haunt Fright or flight change to Fright or flight when the battle ends you complete this grand strategy if one or more objectives are being Contesting contested by friendly night hot units and there are no enemy units within six inches of any friendly night hot units That are contesting an objective. So nice little grand strategy change there that makes that a little easier for them. So that's good Ozzy arc bone reapers more Tark of the necropolis more talk of sacrament and bone-shaper abilities This one will be worth some good discussion change the last paragraph to If a unit that is an immortus guard or necropolis stalkers unit You can heal up to three wounds allocated to that unit Or if no wounds have been allocated to that unit roll a die on a three plus You can return one slain model to that unit with four wounds allocated to it Okay So these are five wound models So the thing comes back on so let's let's go through the sequence here, right? You have potentially three main units that will usually do this in many lists a bone-shaper Archon and cataclysm Mm-hmm. Yep and So the previous world would have been to just go pop pop pop and stand three of these dummies back up or whatever Right or multiple these guys back up Now what happens is the first person uses it they're on a three-plus you get one guy back who has one wound If the second person uses it on that unit that dude heals Up to four wounds, right Mm-hmm. Is that right? Well, is it up to up to three wounds here? You can heal up to three wounds allocate to that unit. So yeah, he would go up to four total. Yeah, correct. Okay, and And then if the next person Uses it Because they're five wound they are five wound models, right? I'm trying okay. Yeah, so then he's gonna heal the last wound Right, right, and then the next guy If they if we get a fourth person using it it restores another model at one wound and we start the seeds over, right? 100% okay Okay, so This is a like pretty big change to this Right Yeah, it's a yeah sizable tone down of one of the most busted things in the game that was a nightmare So we had a little discussion about this my initial reaction was incredibly positive to it I Have a bias toward cleverness. I think sometimes and you know this this is clever This is I might even say like my initial thought what wow, this is I've used the word elegant when I was first thinking about this You know with the interactions here You had a fair point though some pushback on this which yeah, I well here's what I'll say about this change Yeah, this needed to be changed Okay, my actual vote would be let's just not let them restore models to this unit Mm-hmm. That's it done. It doesn't work on these units and Okay Because I just don't like these units are already incredible Yeah for what they do for their points. They're already great at offense great at defense They have a nice the Amortus guard have a nice battle tactic built into them That's just like them and a guy go stand on an objective outside their territory. It's not hard, right? So like there's plenty of reasons we can keep going on reasons why these guys are good I don't know why they also need recursion Number one, okay. Yeah when you made that point did I was thinking at that night What is What would have been the number one on the board? Historically for the unit that we've always talked about combining too much offense and too much defense And I I kept going back to hearth guard berserkers sure exactly which is why I said like I don't know which is why I hate them Having a four-plus rally for the same reasons, right? I just you don't need to add recursion to units that are already good at offense and good at defense now These guys are more terrifying than hearth guard berserkers at their height in my opinion, of course Like they're they're absolutely number on the board on the board. Yeah now That being said this isn't extremely elegant and clever fix Okay, it is like that's what I that's the term. I would use clever. It's very clever right and so But my problem is it might be too clever by half mm-hmm, right Because I'm trying to picture Explaining this to your opponent who doesn't understand what's going on or to a new player who's wanting to pick up this army and how this This sequence works like this is such a complicated weird sequence to explain of like first It doesn't heal wounds then you put a guy's back then it heals wounds then it heals wounds then it puts another guy back And it's just like mm-hmm What's sure yeah, so it just it's strange But it's fine if it's gonna stay around at least it was fixed Significantly weaker thing as to what it restores. Okay, so cool It's it is far better than what it used to be so I'll count that as a win Yep, okay Spirit Gale I am so happy with this change Mm-hmm casting value of seven if successfully cast pick three different enemy units in the battlefield So for one more to wound if you roll a nine plus you get to pick six different units Cool, no one will ever take the spell again. Great. We won. We did it. Have you it have you faced people using spirit Gale Tyler? Oh, of course. Yeah, the height was 11 units on the battlefield 22 more to wounds round one. I enjoyed it So I'm strong cast of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's like that sucks. No doubt, but it believe me. I played like playing You know MSU Skaven okay, is Like Really really annoying because they just got one of these things off and then like every unit you have is suddenly testing for battle shock Because there's no way you have be like that's just happening all your guys are like bravery four and five and all your units actually just start melting Right, and it's just like all the tracking be like, okay one wound over here one Wound over here one wound over here one wound over here one wound over here the tracking on it is ridiculous Yeah, 100% that's what I found the most annoying. Yes, like I've never had this experience If I'm going to put down, you know, Levin or whatever wound count. It was just it took. Yeah It was weird and much less if you have a ward save with your army like I was playing hammers, you know So like rolling this. Yeah. Anyway, it just took forever. I Agree, I like Gareth's comment that I don't know why corn would they felt I'm sorry. I don't want to mess this up. I don't know why they felt that corn needed a nerf Yes, I and I agree if you were a corn player, you were begging for someone to spirit Gale you you're like Yeah, let's do this. I'm gonna go to eight blood type in round one Absolutely, this is gonna be incredible I apologize fright or flight. I didn't realize it got harder when I read it. I thought it got easier. I'm sorry, buddy I got more difficult Okay, cool. I didn't I'll have to go back and read that again. I apologize for the confusion on that. Sorry everyone Okay, and then nothing for destruction which is meaningful in itself, I suppose Yeah, I Mean, yeah, simply gets our pretty good spot Sounds getting some new love here, which we're gonna talk about obviously. Yeah, and Jaws cruel boys. We're on their half You know half dozen buffs in so they're They're okay. Yeah Ogres were the ones I thought maybe would see some point drops or some the ogres But I took a look and you know, it was kind of in the middle of the pack. Yeah, they are very middle of the road Yeah, they're they're there. They're like kind of Again, one of those ideal armies that just under the radar. You don't think about it But they do put in the the good win rate, you know, and I think if you dig down those stats there They're they're pretty okay. So it's you know I think that with like three destruction armies getting touched in dawn rangers part two, which we'll talk about here shortly you know, it's like Probably fine to leave it well enough alone. I agree with you. I think ogres are the ones to watch Um So, oh, I mean obviously because clearly GW is forgetting about bone splitters were forgetting about it as well Yeah, I mean, that's That's I they don't count. I'm sorry everybody But if you if you were thinking about picking up a blow bone splitters army My feeling would be maybe don't Maybe don't Okay, unless you're trying to pick up an army for the old world In which case congratulations Yeah on your you're very clever forward thinking Okay, let's talk about some points Let's talk about some points So we got some some decent drops across the board here in many armies and some big hikes Uh decently big hikes in soul blight Uh as well as uh slanesh I think slanesh didn't go far enough. We'll talk about it here Um Eidneth Yeah, good. It's good first step. Again. I don't think it'll solve anything. I like the shiver combined with some point drops Okay, probably gives him something like those point drops might get you another unit on the board might Yeah, exactly. Yeah And like is that really gonna make the difference? Yeah Yeah, well, yeah, we'll see like we already talked about it. Yeah, could could be more of uh Just a rules thing with where they are too too honest of a book Uh compared to the landscape nowadays, but yeah Seraphon only the slan going up surprising Yeah, man, I Like woe hammer is breaking out the Win rates for you know, like sub factions like popular sub factions are getting played, right? Colas is down there pretty low right now We've known that for a while and it's showing up in the data so far. So I thought we might get a little love For some of the coalesced pieces You don't necessarily see them showing up a lot, you know, like starborn List and to have a prayer pretty clear designation. I finally saw six agrodons in a starborn list the other day You know, I thought again six agrodons and let me tell you what this isn't a coalesced list But but nonetheless, I was really impressed by that unit. Yeah, I think my initial take on those was wrong I really do think agrodons have got some gas in the tank different conversation But if we do a seraphon revisit at some point, I definitely want to talk about those guys I think they're with their like slight points drop that happened last time. I think they're in the right place They're they're strong. They're strong I agree Yeah, yeah, I think some of the coalesce monsters are just completely outside of the bank like outside the park still That's the issue. Yeah Tyler what do you think about them storm cast changes ring ring annihilators or shields? What's going on? How you doing? Yeah, absolutely Yeah, it's pretty attractive Start to worry about spamming, you know, my opinions on spam Uh, we'll we'll see but yeah, I'm sure people like margonc and others are excited to finally getting some real love here Yeah, I mean Sure, let's let's see other than the spam concern. We're we're still missing Some obvious units in my mind I don't know Pretty exhaustive to me I can't think of any other unit in storm cast that would Potentially need any kind of adjustment. I think this is a perfect list. What could the other one be? Tyler? Why'd you have another one? Oh I know you want the big dragons to go down more. I agree. Thank you Yeah, yeah, bat and yeah, yeah You have this claim that the people from the studio watch the show. I don't know. Maybe they just don't listen to me Which I understand I get that So Yeah, judicators, man what The living all right fill in blank It's just beyond absurdity at this point We got reavers coming at the highly played one of the best units in this whole faction Nomari reavers getting a point drop 160 for 10 of them putting out 20 21 shots Yeah Uh, we've got what else we got we got uh blitzbar marchers that've been rocking the scene. What are they 170? Going up to going up 10. Yeah, you're right. We should move judicators up 10 as well. I agree. Clearly. That's what we should be doing Uh, yeah, I'm just Sure Sure I don't uh, I don't get bashed in at 300. I'm not sure what what bashing is doing out there deserving of the Continuing 300 points that we're paying for that that wonderful man. Uh, yeah, there there's obviously there's some great ones There's going to be in a book of 500 war schools. So right No, I agreed. Yeah, I mean clearly judy's can afford to go down to meet more in the middle Where the other ranged units are all kind of gathering around Um, you know bashing should go down that kind of thing I I look at a lot of storm cast list like I you know mad mad emphasizes that he's driven by data Uh, from what I've gathered at least watching meadow watch and you know play they're tracking all the War school play rates, right? They they got all this data and I refuse to believe that Judicators are showing up with any meaningful percentage right now. I almost never see them in the middle If I see them, it's both storm crossbows. It's not the sky momos So yeah, it's a it's a full blown conspiracy at this point and you're probably in on it some way It's fine. I I usually am Nurgle I've made it my life mission. Yeah, let's talk nurgle real quick over it Yeah, man. Nurgle got some good love We should say by the way the harbinger isn't actually a points adjustment up Right, that was just the cost of his new scroll in dawn bringers one Like that's simply how much the reformatted scroll cost. This was just making that formal in the actual points, so All day So, uh, I know you had a window where you were right with your call on nurgle that window has been shut for a little bit now Uh, I've been tracking the nurgle results, man for the last two months at least and dude tons of four ones Multiple five o's with a lot of different variety that we've been seeing so No, I think I think the changes are meaningful here And I think this really does put nurgle back into the mix like that that's what you know As I stated back a while ago. I saw that they were going to get hit that they were going to be on the downswing Okay But I think now with the recent changes We're we're we're trending back upward Um in the right places some of their some of their natural enemies have also been hit hard enough Right to to to stop like it's not just the positive nurgle changes. It's also the fact that Their natural predators which let's be honest was like obr and sole blight who both had Like had punched the check for nurgle real hard Right Have been consistently over the past couple changes been like brought down brought down brought down, right? So as they fall The magikin rise As is the as the wheel turns there as as is the point, right So somebody somebody needs to go 5-0 With a great and clean one. I think it's possible now. Let's let's see it I'm probably not gonna be that person but Yeah, get sure get your great and clean one hit him with whore frost those 15 attacks hit him with flaming weapons Get uh get it on So I love all those plug bears going down black kings a lot of a lot of great stuff there the What do you think about scaven? Well, hold on. Let me let me just let us get in Uh, I don't mind any of the up costs on scaven or on slanash. Honestly. I think that's all fine I would have taken I honestly would have taken archers farther. I think the stupidity should be 180. I really do Um, I just I don't think they're expensive enough yet. I think I think they need another 10 points Um, maybe the seekers shouldn't have gone up, but I'm fine with everything else I don't know what the heck the mask did but okay, sure Um, I don't think we went far enough on the other units Like I'll stand behind this and this is probably where that data thing comes in like there is still no humanly possible way That the keeper secrets is worth 400 points or whatever. That's that's such complete nonsense Like I don't care how many reading lists it's in. I don't care. Whatever it's underlying data says It's a garbage unit and you play it and you feel like it It's it might be buoyed by being by being by pretenders and just sitting there and handing out things to To bliss barbs or something, but it's a garbage unit that doesn't know that it does no damage and has no purpose as a greater demon Um, I never see that thing shown up or hardly ever see it I've seen it with sigval the power power of sigval there once in a while. Uh, but yeah, it's not a lot I I agree. Yeah, it's it's really bad. Yeah now scaven Uh, I mean again, grace here went down or that's the bell I should say went down to 20 still a piece of garbage because the scrolls a piece of garbage There's just not a correct points cost. So it doesn't matter. So who cares? Um, but the death master going down to 110 is actually fantastic that guy's a an all star. He's a really good really good Killer part of a pretty decent little combo as we've talked about before The hell pits probably still trash even at 180 because it's a big giant randomly moving monster on a five up save So it's scary. It can do a lot of output. But yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying, but yeah, it can be scary Sure, I if you're facing any kind of shooting He basically falls over dead instantly because he's an easy target and he dies to any amount of shooting and then just Flops over, right? Um, the lightning cannon and the jails jails going down 10. It's fine. Cool with that both good changes You know, both are like scavener one of the few fair armies because they're also one of the only armies that actually uses artillery Like uh, everybody else's ranged shooters are just shooters. They just get to be a unit Ours are artillery Like jails are artillery, right? Yeah You actually have to pay attention to the artillery cap when you play scaven a thing No other army has thought about Since we got rid of all the cannons in a os one Okay, sure Like that was the last time anybody else was gave and thought about the artillery cap. It's a joke Uh, I guess maybe there was that one moment in the ogre book when it first came out when the Their big sky cannon thunder boys were all undercosted there There they had a slight moment and wanted to take more than four cannons. So Oh, yeah, I came up with those things you're calling. I was talking about yeah, I played against four of them Iron blushes that we go did we go far enough with scaven because yeah, they have been pretty low on the win rate Uh struggling out there No, but it's fine. Like honestly, I don't mind. I don't I legitimately don't care. I find them a really fun It's it's so funny It's a tale of two armies and and I certainly some part of this is my own personality I find playing heat knights of snash who which has an outsize win rate Like it's it's it's been batting above the average right outside of the the fat middle I find playing that army to be a just unbelievable awful awful awful time It's horrible play. It's bad time for your opponent. It's a bad time to play against It's no fun. Like I don't know who has fun playing this army in its current form If you're a slanesh player who is currently having fun With this army right now as it exists Please put into the chat or if you're watching this in the future into the comments What are you enjoying about this army right now? I want to know Okay Skaven whose win rate is on the opposite side outside the fat middle on the low end I have more fun playing Skaven Every time every time I play and I always feel like I'm in the game by the way Right. I I never feel like I'm not in the game. I never feel like I'm getting my teeth kicked in Sure. I feel like I'm playing the game Right, okay So it's just it's a tale of like the armies. What needs to happen with Skaven is ultimately not going to be solved by points You know, it's it's actually write a 3.0 book That that's it. Yeah Yeah, just write a real 3.0 book instead of a 2.75 Yeah, I've always found them to be I think of that god mission a few times king and graves He had to involved worse last year. I think he's going to be there again this year. He took out bug eater Uh, a few months back 5.0 with Skaven Whenever you have a really good list, you know, like you you've put together a list thoughtfully, right? And you get a good player skilled at controlling a toolbox and Keegan is one of those and it's one of those armies. Yeah, you can really punch above Punch above your weights if you kind of get those variables in place but yeah, anyway the Let's see slaves darkness. I was a little surprised by some of these. I mean Uh, yeah, man chaos warriors at 180 like I know I get that they have not been showing up a whole lot Personally, my bias is that I think they're they were fine at 200 I'm going to be playing a unit of 10 this week. We're going to talk about something very close to that here in just a moment And it's way more expensive. It's yeah, absolutely So, uh, I think we're at what 180 for source warriors like we need to Let's pick a point value and let's put chaos warrior source warriors and and an upcoming unit We're going to discuss at that same point value probably the kind of all right there In that space So I was a little surprised by that personally chaos chosen an incredible unit It's been blowing up everything that I've touched and trying out this list. I'm going to run this weekend Uh, as they want to do what do you think about? Slaves getting I mean, obviously not huge my drops. Yeah, that's fine. I like I like all these changes I get I don't disagree with you on chaos warriors. I'm happy to see the lord on karkadrat come down He continues to embarrass the demon prince just like like just how much can you dunk on this moron? The original points value on the demon prince continues to be hilarious just like like the biggest joke In the universe that the that the scroll got printed that way It's a bad unit and you should feel bad for writing it. I'm not going to mince words on this one It's supposed to be The apotheosis of the goal that thousands million like tens of thousands I don't remember how many there's these idiots are supposed to be Of these chaos lords and people under the eye of the gods are aiming for to become an immortal prince Of chaos that's their goal Right and the number of times in games where I've seen people roll the 11 or 12 and go no Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I don't want it. It makes my unit worse You still love the We were of the I think we were aligned around just give us Malefic talents and a weapon Be a good start pick a pick an axe or the sword and then give us the talents and let's go with that It'd be a great start. It'd be a great start if it's not going to fix that, but it's it's going to be a great start Yeah, uh, I don't want to give away the entire combo But if folks are interested in trying to do a scary demon prince look at talents And whorefrost and then and then go from there. Sure I love ogre at therodons at 150. I agree. I think martin orlando said it six therodons at 300 is pretty awesome I agree. I've uh, I've rolled six therodons in a couple fights They're pretty cool. They're pretty cool. They're they're fragile But uh, you oftentimes have other things that the the enemy needs to focus on And 300 points is a perfectly reasonable investment for them. So I dig that a lot All right, let's move through the rest of this knight haunt Sure, why not like it's fine. I don't know that it's going to help but it's fine The I still think dread side therodons are are overcosted for what they do at 150 I've seen some people. Yeah, it gets more done with them, but it's rare. Yeah, there's a there's a guy in texas that's done Hi, I believe his name is he's done really well with them, but yeah, don't seem a whole lot at least at scale Yeah, Keith roger said don't you fix the demon prince by just dropping it down to nine wounds. That'd be another big change That'd be another positive change. Yeah way to put it at the worst wounds amount in the game Uh, great choices there. Just it's a cavalcade of bad choices on the demon prince. Um Bone reapers. I don't mind the harvester garden crawler coming down I think those are all the correct changes for things to come down the Uh, the death riders and the mortar cataclysm especially going up are both logical enough to me Yeah, yeah, I think that makes sense. I feel like a number of stark players were expecting maybe a plus 10 on the on the ponies I'm hoping that minus 20 isn't going to tick over now into spam land with mortar garden when you take the It's cheap for a highly effective unit, but it does have some some weaknesses to it, right? Like in its current build It's not what it used to be and that's fine. Like they're just really good in country, which is fine Yeah And I agree with gareth who said, you know the problem with like heritons and stuff like that is it's a one-inch reach on a 32 mil base Yeah, exactly Yeah, it's fair and and so You know that kind of stuff is just like units like that that I have an innate Foundational functional problem. There's plenty of these 32 mil 10 man units one inch reach guys in the game still Right, they're just starting in a really bad place And so they have to punch way above their weight already because they're starting with like They're stepping up to the plate with one strike on the board, right? Yeah, I got hit hard by that Uh spg a lot of stuff going up. Uh, is it enough? Probably not. Is it a good direction? Yes, probably so Um zombies at 150 is closer to what they are worth Uh, I still think they're one of the best units in the game 150. I don't think that matters much at all um So that's fine Uh, I'm happy to see torguilis up 30. He's absolutely worth 180 like every day and twice on sunday. He is worth 180 Um, so I was very happy to see that Uh, that's a very very good change in my mind And then the vangorian lord going back up to 20 to 300. I think that's also correct Uh, so yeah, it's a good piece vangorian learn. Uh, uh, yeah, yeah, we'll see That's I mean we've got a local player who was not happy about this But uh, it it was coming It needed to happen. I'm sorry. I mean if you look at tom guan the management terrorizing the entire country with a string of unstoppable 5o's running a horrendous zombie spam corpse cart five up ward virkho's list Yeah, right. He's like he is mr. 28 with that list, right? um, and He looked at these changes and he was like, that's fine. I'll just take out the the unit I put in as a joke that was like 300 points. I'm winning with 17 our points. I don't need the joke unit Right, so okay Anything you thought was missing should have been on this list Uh, no, I think this hit all the right stuff. Um Yeah, I think we I think we could take the standalone monsters down The the there should have been a couple downs of like the standalone terror geist and standalone tommy dragon since they're both under trash Throw throw throw the avingore people a bone and let that and reduce the points on those those dumb monsters Yeah, since they're awful Maybe a tick down on blood knights, but like I've been seeing a whole lot of blood knights Not that it's a bad unit, but maybe just slightly over custom the yeah Monsters in general Yeah, it seems like there's a number of armies where you could say that's like let's let's Look at some of these monsters tick them down Piece of chaos felt like we still got an overview of this piece of chaos that could Drop a tick to get some more diversity going in those lists You know, it's still a lot of the the bulgur's Unger Raiders, etc So yeah, I was a little surprised not to see that in there. I thought that was a nice opportunity to to do some work there But yeah, man, overall pretty good I think that like, you know, there's a lot of people were saying, you know, svg issue is still recursion I don't disagree with that at all. I think that's absolutely correct Um, you know cinderfall says I absolutely hate that zombies cost so many points That unit should just lose all its rules and be nothing but bodies that are maybe immune to battle shock for 120 points I I agree like the problem with zombies We keep making them into like actual powerhouses that can kill things I still think they're one of the most strong units in the game. It's it's wild You're still getting 20 wounds for 150 points. That's effectively 30 points, right? Um, the like these are these these guys are so outsized in there Um, in their valuable in it. Yeah, and it's not just the five up that they're doing back on on the models It's all the layers that you can build on top of these guys like you can just make them ridiculous and combat Yep so Yeah, I like, you know, I I think that that on the whole there's still some other armies as you mentioned That could have been touched but for the most part. I think this is a good swing across the plate I think I think you you mentioned a couple um ogres we talked about earlier. I think we could see some of you see I agree. Yeah Yeah, zinch is another one, right? There's quite a bit of stuff dude in zinch that we just don't see nowadays Yeah, my issue is zinch is like, I don't know what to do with them because they were putting up really good results But how much of that was based on rupture and and like self rupturing there incarnate and stuff like that Yeah, so it's like it's they're really hard to pin down. They're they're a very complicated story Like flamers. I came in the last time I saw not that I'm asking for flamerspan to come back. We we've done that December 2019 back again But I think I think probably use a little love. Yeah, just I was looking at zinch There's a number of heroes and and war scrolls to again help with the variety of the diversity. Yeah All right. Well tyler Yeah, long segment as I knew it would be that's why I said I'm gonna timestamp this on its own Let's move on. That's right. We still have this is basically still the news Uh, so let's talk about some pick of the week. Uh, what do you want to share with everybody tyler? Yeah, man, I was gonna do six. So if tom shows up to the show again and doesn't make a pick of the week I'm I'm gonna go six picks minimum next time fair warning. Okay Not doing his job. Uh, so I've got that was pretty aggressive statement Uh, I I really tom needs to better respect this show sometimes I agree Battle scrolls September 2023, uh, collated changes So, uh, fellow in the community had put together a Collated pdf of all of the rata changes that they made which we didn't go through So, you know, like all of the beast kids etc. So all the specific factions So very average adam He did that. Thank you adam great work And yeah, just wanted to give a shout out to him. He's going to see all the changes in one place Just hit that link in the show notes and what else we got Moss dog. So this is a relatively new channel. He's very big on his destruction Armies, he has done a series of new iron jaws videos some really good analysis, right? He got a game in with some big pigs. He went through the armies of renown Uh, that we're going to be talking about here in a minute The the big pig armies were now all the different war scrolls a lot of good thoughts enjoyed his analysis So yeah, moss dog Check him out give him a follow give him some love and then finally front of the show nico So nico came out of the gate swinging with plastic cracks blog Single handedly trying to bring the blog back to the world plastic crack everybody over there Uh, city of sigmar crunching the rules the Yeah, nico living up to his reputation with that article fantastic and depth analysis on all all things cities the man's mind is truly a uh Uh an incredible thing to behold I will say as someone who talks to nico quite a bit He really is a brilliant guy like I mean that with no joke or or anything But um, but his brain works in a very different way to mine. I'll say that for sure I'm yeah, I made the mistake a few days ago of asking him for a rules clarification And I felt so stupid Trying to follow that man like I know he was right He's got he's got that lawyer brain. That's what it is. Yeah, so yeah, okay My pig the week we're going to talk about some story time for dawn bringers tonight but if you want to go deeper on the story and uh get the actual story from someone who You know really enjoys lore Check out two plus tough friend of the show dug all around great human being one of the nice people in the universe Is doing a multi-part series on the lore of dawn bringers and if you want to catch up with all the individual stories Uh, he has a video I shared part one Uh, you can find that in uh in the description of the video So check that out. Uh, and you can follow the whole series. He's up to part like five now I think five just came out yesterday. That sounds right off the top of my head Yep, uh, so check out everything we mentioned down in the Uh down in the um Description I know yes, that's right. Keith Rogers and a couple of the people Yes mentioned that malevolent maelstrom went up 20 to 50 points. Yep. Good. Correct. Good. Yeah Forgot about that. Thank you. It's an excellent mention. Yeah, I didn't show up in here Yeah, uh, it's only in the the actual like points PDF and it's now I believe the app updated today So it's now in the app as well. I'm sorry. Cool. Okay Uh, all right By the way, if you've gotten this far. Hey first off, thanks Secondly, why not hit like for all of this insane battle scroll madness? This could have been old show, frankly Uh, but they I love that they always release these on thursday morning. I'm like I know that's always the case Um, okay So, uh, yeah hit like hit subscribe if you haven't already so really appreciate it Uh, and check out all those things that we talked about now Let's move to Some the fastest segment Hobby time Uh, tyler I'll paint anything yet. You're painting yet So you can stop asking me. It's not it's not gonna happen That that was that was speaking good anglish right there until vault wars is done. That's my excuse I love my excuses. That's my official excuse quit bugging me. You can keep bugging me. It's fine. I still love you I love you too, buddy. And I'm gonna bug you forever I am the angel on your shoulder And also I am the like I am also the the like corn eight guy with the whip at your back on both of them No, I do have a game plan though. So I was very appreciative of that show we did the hobby show painting all that all the good things talking about that stormcast color scheme I'm gonna do a pure thunder strike Army and get going on that after vault wars. So I've got to listen everything. It's very friendly. It's very fun So, uh, yeah, I'm excited. I saw your color scheme. I'm excited to see it. So there you go Okay for me My hobby time I finished up this lady right here. She's all done now All right. So as you can see she's very big Uh, so this is how she came out Uh, what is that? What is that? What's that? What's that from? Say 3d print for that that uh, our good friend crazy horse Anthony Pocastro in the chat sent to me Uh, it's just a really nice fig and so it was a good chance to just practice some skin I might go in and mess with a few little things tweak a few little things a little more And obviously I got to make her a base because she's just standing on my painting handle right now But on the whole I think she came out pretty pretty fun She was a good chance to keep experimenting with things and pushing myself She's not like for anything in particular like there's no competition goal or anything like that It was just painting for the sake of painting and I really enjoy like obviously you can tell she's large Just in case it's not horribly obvious Here's a here is a little league of voaster guy Oh my goodness That's like a big she is I've given that's a little still um But yeah, she came out really nice And I think I have my next thing on my desk. I've got a bust. I want to paint But I think before I get to that, uh, it might be time to hit up another orc boy We're going to talk about later tonight and we when we get through Uh that because I'm pretty excited to get him into a list So but she was a lot of fun got to spend a lot of hours on her and and so just a lot of good practice Um, so yeah, it would be a good keeper of secrets proxy. Hades. Yeah, she is about the size of a keeper of secrets. You're not wrong Um, I printed her a little more Naturey, um, but she would have been a good keeper. Huh? Huh should have given her some claws or something Okay, there you go Uh, all right. Cool Let's go to tonight's main topic Mm-hmm the boom dawn bringers part two Uh The redawn inning Okay db to let dbb to electric boogaloo. All right, cool Let's get into it First of all, what is this thing? Well, it's a significant leap over the first book And by that what I mean is like there's a lot more here in the first book. We got four models Like the four leaders this time. We're getting complete new armies. Basically new allegiance abilities We got a bunch of expansion models Uh, like this was a lot Uh, we got shrug for the gits right, um You know our troll king Yeah, these new rules for gits iron jaws suns badmont and carattern overlords This is a lot And when I say new allegiance abilities, what I mean here is each of those four armies has an army of renown The first thing that came to my mind for those who've played warhammer for a long time Is the I think it was in the sixth edition books or maybe the fifth edition books I can't honestly remember now. I played warhammer for too long But they had specialized armies in the backs of those books So the one I always reference is like imagine you're playing the empire at that time Right in the back and remember like units had different limits Like you could only have like one steam tank in a list and you know He was like every units came labeled with like one plus or one zero to three or something like that, right? And you had to fill certain requirements of certain troops and yada yada yada with percentages of your force and all this nonsense All the stupid army building crap that dom and i'm glad it's dead, but um In the back of that book, they would have like the artillery train of gnome And so like in the artillery train of gnome It was like okay now you can have a ton more handgunners And cannons you can get more of those and you can have more steam tanks And you know these things are now counting as your troop allocations or whatever right and so on and so And that's very much what's kind of going on here to to a degree So Yeah, the important part to understand about these armies are renowned is that they aren't They don't build on the previous thing at all right I saw a number of people referencing or asking are these like the old battalions that we used to have no no that's not what these are. Yeah No, these were absolute these are like you This is very much the 40k model Which is like if you're your here's your space marines one or whatever your ultramarines doctrine or something like that, right? But if you want to play this like first company thing you get rid of those rules completely and you read these new rules instead And like none of that other crap matters, right? This is the same thing. Like if you're playing Uh, the the all pig force you're using none of the normal iron jaws rule like that work war claims book Does not apply you use the rules on the pages in this book begin and Right alpha omega. I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that includes Right like iron jaws grand strategies battle tactics. I'm pretty sure you're not using Any of that stuff either right? Correct. You don't you do not get access to the Okay, yeah, that's what none of that. Yeah, no, and that's just it g well These are not sub factions sub factions are a thing that you take and stack on top of your rules These are complete tear the rip the page out of the notebook and write a new page You do not still get the basic battle traits. No, you do not get anything out of the main book No, no no g well you get nothing Okay, you do not get anything that is not written on the page in this book period Yeah self-contained self-contained armies. Yeah, correct now in the case of the bad moon We'll talk about trolls in a while You do still have the bad moon because not because you get to recall back to that book But because they completely reprinted the bad moon as an allegiance ability of this army of renown So it so like in this case Trugs army Does still get the bad moon, but that's not because of anything that like that gets booked throw in the trash. You don't need it I'm not don't really do that. Obviously. I'm being funny, but like the old you only get the rules in this book If it does not appear here you get Nothing Good day Okay So, okay cool um Yeah, uh somebody asked you get the train piece. Um, yes, because the train piece isn't an allegiance ability The train piece is an army construction thing that costs zero points You're allowed to have one of as when you when you build an army So, okay Uh The rules for most of these seem pretty narrative And like more narrative fun than competitive play They are match play legal I think time will tell whether or not any of these actually rise up But I'll say that like I think there's one that is slightly competitive And I think the other three are like Not but maybe maybe one and a half Maybe that's like two three quarters. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly. We'll talk about it Sure Okay All right So that's the overview anything I missed here Tyler anything else you you want me to touch on in the overview Ah, man looks good. Yeah, I think that about says it all I'm excited for story time Well, then, you know what time it is folks. That's right That means it's time for story time. All right story time everybody gather around kids Okay What happens in this book spoilers? I'm gonna spoil what happens in this book So I don't know like it's just gonna happen. It doesn't really matter. Not that much happens You're not missing much and I've got some excited. There is all the exciting things in this story have nothing To do with the main story nothing Okay, okay So let's talk about it. What happens? All right. Well, we set the stage. We've got our twin-tailed crusade leaving out from hammerhall oxhi and hammerhall guy ran Why they're going where they're going and why these are the destinations they make brief illusions too, but it literally makes no sense Um, why would you like lead this grand crusade out to the vast wilderness to found a place like there's not gold out there There's not free land to settle. It's not some, you know, ridiculous stupid manifest destiny nonsense Right. It's just I don't know. Let's go over there. What's over there cannibals and lunatics Maybe don't go over there. I don't know You know, you think they just like expand in an ever-growing circle and and slowly, you know Sort of land and expand that strategy, but no instead. We're just gonna March straight out Okay, sigmar wills it. That's all you need to know Yes, sigmar wills it. Yes. I agree somebody said i'm sad. We didn't get the war altar from this book I'm sad. We didn't get whatever this floating War bastion is up here. That's like Dwarfing iron clads. I want this on my table, but yeah, definitely. I want that world or 100% Okay, so that's what's going on now Once again, we get a little opening from callus and toll as there are like constant They're bait callus and toll are the balcony muppets. They're the statler and wall dwarf Of this series. They don't actually do anything or take part in anything They just sit up there and like comment and make fun of people for being stupid. Okay So, um So that's what they're doing. So they they are our framing device And basically they're like, well, this is dumb, right? And they're like, yeah, pretty much And but but one of them's like, but you know, they need hope This is a this is a that which is sort of the ostensible purpose for us, right? Let's go and instill hope You know what instills hope in people not dying Okay, that's I there's like 50 other ways you could have chosen to instill hope But anyways, and then rightly I think toll says back to to him Uh hope kills more men than cannons and I'm like, first of all, it's a very pessimistic view and secondly I love that line. I am the way I see it. Hope kills more men than cannons so Probably a very real statement and true in the world and true in the aos world. So Um, but nonetheless, I I enjoyed their little balcony Muppet commentary Okay so The oxy let's let's we're we're in oxy, right? We're gonna start basically the first half of this story is all in oxy and This is really like split up We we'd follow kind of the whole oxy story then we jump back and follow the whole guy ran story Think like Lord of the Rings certainly a tale Just as epic Okay So uh They set out from oxy and they get in a fight with some iron jaws They kill the iron jaws Done, okay neat like just a complete we had to throw in some bolter porn fight for no reason Aren't steel helms cool don't gun shoot a lot of works Fun times so like completely irrelevant rando iron jaws just die Okay All right Then we switch focus over to guy ran for like two seconds Because this is such a funny thing that occurs Here's the problem Tyler the authors Want to use shrug the troll king In oxy Okay, yeah, but it doesn't make sense for the story. They're telling for him to have been asleep in oxy and woken up in oxy So instead he lives in guy ran where he had been overgrown and that's where he got his laystone on his back Okay, okay, and then bragett stumbles upon him This is the lord like in the last book if you remember last story time bragett said one of one of bragetts The little rabble rouser guy one of his claims to fame was that he found the biggest troll in the world This is the story of how that happened. He's wandering around in the caves in guy ran finds him wakes him up Okay, like bangs on pots and pans until shrug wakes up tries to kill him And then he runs away and he runs through a portal and brings Trug into oxy through a portal Okay Like for no reason and the reason is because we like no reason other than complete plot contrivance because the the like healing life giving Rain stuff is what started to wake shrug up He had been partially awake due to a laurels like Empowerment of everything because that's what woke up the the her infusing the realm with magic Is what woke up the laystone on his back and started kind of waking him up the long process of waking him up which takes months Gotcha So but he's in oxy now. So that's fine and he's got a bad headache And he wants to smash all the things that make him have a headache and because of the laystone on his back He only sees magic things like magic magic places appear very bright to his eyes So he's just following lay lines Straight to where the magic places are which is of course where all the humans are going to be like he's going to march straight through them incidentally Right. He doesn't have like direct malice Okay He's just like on a path So he just starts walking down from his mountain and as he does so other trolls just start following him They just wake up and start following him because he's the biggest troll So in in short order, he is just surrounded by this massive horde of green skins little little gifts and And goblins and bounders and trolls galore Okay And He First thing he runs a foul of in oxy is he runs into like a fire slayer lodge Which he just plows right through And one of the little fire slayers gets away and is like, okay, you got to go warn everybody So he goes off and goes to warn people Okay Now let's go back to the crusade So in that iron jaws fight talia was there the cool awesome new special model on the manticore Yeah, but then in very short order after that fight She's recalled with like 20 of the forces in the in the comet in this crusade Back to hammer hall because it's under attack. We'll talk about this later Okay And so she has to leave and she leaves this dude named marshal malcorn in charge I have never seen somebody get red shirted harder. Okay Like from the moment they're like, oh, he's really good and smart and a very daring leader And but he's no thalia. I'm like, well He's dead or tallia. Whatever name is sorry. Thalia is a magic card. He's very closely named It's like switch the h in the in the a basically Anyways, so malcorn's in charge, but as soon as tallia leaves malcorn basically loses control of the crusade to pontifex sinestra who is also there And she's a lunatic Okay That much is clear from this story. Like she is a fanatic Like a hardcore lunatic fanatic Obsessed with like the wheel as the interpretation of sigmar and like as the wheel turns It's just like that's what everything is. Okay. I was hoping she would be an interesting character Like just looking at that model that we're scroll everything about it. Like, okay I would love for this to be an intriguing character that Nope. She's just a she's just a religious fanatic Just like a hardcore Look how strong she is her faith is unbreakable unwavering Her glare cows people who stare at her right like That's what she is okay All right, so she basically starts everybody all the other troops are like falling to her sway Right, but she's not like agitating against malcorn or anything. She's just turning everyone into religious fanatics Okay So they're heading for this place called truce break Whatever it's like the last stop, you know Well, it just so happens That old shrug the troll king is also heading For truce break on the way there. He splats through some random corn like some rando. He gets his own rando battle as well Okay And so like a bunch of corn show up. They're like, yay For blood for the blood god and then the shrug just smashes them through like they just Splat over the the corn forces. Okay Okay Sig just maxima says sigmar take the wheel. Yeah, indeed. That's her. That's her. That's her belief Okay So they get to truce break and the word comes in that this big troll army is coming So marshal malcorn says basically, oh no problem. I got this I'm gonna lead out and instead of fighting them here In this place where we can use our defenses and have walls And can like, you know to avoid a siege. I'm gonna go meet them on the field So he like rides out chooses his battle point sets up a defensive position He's like he's supposed to be this like very smart tactical character So strike one for leading his entire army out of this defensible city Against this like wild unbridled force Step two, they're like doing a decently good job of killing and holding off like they have their they have their castle setup Okay, like a little the way they describe it. Yeah castle information. Yeah He's he's not like I mean like think how a city's a sigmar player will play this army now That's how he set up. He set up in castle formation Where all of his artillery is protected his riders are on the side His deal helms are are like double layered Right, like he literally is playing city's a sigmar castle army. If he would have had some um He's uh Oh, he had fusiliers now he had tons of fusiliers If he would have had some of the casters from uh hallowart in the back He would have been like literally a meta perfect army All right So he starts like winning and he's like, okay, it's time to break their back. So he leads all his forces away Okay To go charge into the lines Leaving all of his artillery completely undefended Great move Just real brilliance. So he loses. I know that's it. They don't they don't do anything. It's fine Sure He loses because some bounders come around and you know fly around the lines and kill all the artillery And then once the guns go silent then shrug comes in and and all the trolls come in and just kill all his troops And he and a few others like he and the his rest of his people call a retreat and manage to barely get away with their lives He goes back to Uh, oh, he also lost like two Cog forts, by the way, when are we going to get those figs? When are we getting them cog forts? He had two cog forts with him on this march The photo we just talked about is that what no, they're different. These are like war alters. The cog forts are like walking artillery platforms Oh, okay. They're like big big giant war machine things Okay, um, they're manned by seemingly like some crew of of like a dozen people or something like that is what it seems to be Like it's a small mobile walking fortress with a bunch of cannons Gotcha. All right. Let's let's see it Yeah, where's this thing? Anyways, so he retreats back to true sprake and Zanester is like, okay. Well, we're not going to win this fight So malcorn, here's your chance to redeem yourself Uh, you stay here and hold him off so the rest of us can all escape And her most loyal zealotus lunatics um Stay and fight with malcorn And he holds him at the gate for as long as he can and then as soon as truck comes up to smash him He had secretly piled up all of the black powder around him And he takes his pistol and points it down at the giant pile of black powder around him And boom goes the dynamite and he Explodes and you know kills all the goblins around him and Catches truck and a big giant explosion and all of this. Yeah Okay, okay Okay It's okay that he was an idiot He he was an idiot and he makes the completely believe the completely like wrote heroic sacrifice with the explosion at the end and So then what happens is truck doesn't die because he was in his little he had his little oxy and rune active So he like doesn't get hurt by fire or whatever. He just lights on fire and it doesn't bother him And so then they're the pontifex and estra and all the forces are they're fleeing out of truce break through a tight canyon where they can't move or go anywhere again the tactics here are really just top notch and basically truck comes up to the back of the army with the rest of his trolls and the Bounders are like jumping in and out from the the edges of the cliffs and stuff like that And he's on fire like truck is still on fire from the big explosion And it's clear that all hope is lost and zinestra stands up and like summons a giant Glowing wheel I do not know how to describe this other than that and when that she like a massive massive giant glowing wheel And like I wish this ability was on her worst role. It's not When it touches says sigmar people They are renewed with hope and their wounds close and heal and they're ready to fight again with instilled with vigor When it touches goblins or trolls, they're basically killed instantly Okay It almost cuts trog's head off like it knocks him back and like pins him down Like it's so strong that it like he can't press his way through it and it's just shredding him as fast as he can regenerate Okay And so she goes into like super saiyan mode is basically what happens, right? her power level goes over 9000 And uh, she then just like does this and all the troops get away And then she like she says like okay you pack a flagellants You're the last force to go hold it a bunch of her lunatic flageons like are like, yes finally a chance and they just like run forward and Uh fight in the wheel as she retreats and then until they all eventually die And then she gets away Okay So that's it. That's the oxian story. That's it. She flees out and gets away and and now is pressing on deeper into oxhi With trog. Um, oh the wheel also collapsed the canyon down on them So he could follow like after the flagellants were fighting and held them off The wheel then just started tearing into the stone and collapsed the entire canyon and trapped all the goblins and trolls and everything underneath it So when trog finally dug his way out He he was like, oh everybody's gone and then he went off looking for more magic again That's it Because he's ultimately a completely mindless villain, right? He has no right. He has no actual Intelligence or animus. He's just like this weird force of nature wandering across the Yeah, that's very right Okay, so that's oxhi now. Let's jump over to gairan In gairan we've got marshal is cilia thorian Uh, who's not interesting at all another completely understanding character. Uh, she's like the the thoughtful leader Okay, unlike the hot heads over in in oxhi. She's very thoughtful and measured and careful a tactical strategic leader The interesting part about her force as it leads out is it doesn't have it's not as heavy with the guns okay Because it's gairan And uh, so they don't rely on guns as much because it's wet there all the time There's still a bunch of fuseliers and cannons, but it's not as big a part of their force They rely more on On steel helms and fuseliers and a lot more of the like wilder core hunter people But what's cool about her force is she is aided by a group of stormcast eternals And the the leader of that is one of the night Uh, the night venator dudes or whatever. Yeah Or venator or judicator judicator with the new one with the grip hounds or the old I know I think he's a venator. I think I I think he's actually a venator Like the flying guy The the guy we've never seen on the table for over a year Correct, correct. Not since I played him in nash con like 2021 or whatever. Um The um And so what's this guy's name is tornas Torr n us What's neat about tornas? He has like a bunch of uh, oh He's he's full of all stormcasts that don't get played because he's got a bunch of the javelin and hammer Prosecutors as well. It's like a big party's force a bunch of wing and stormcast, right? Super cool sounding force But what's neat about his whole force is they're all ex-nergal chaos workforce Who are struck down by Uh, like the light of sigmar and repented in their final moment and sigmar gathered this entire Nurgle force to himself and reforge them. And so they're all ex chaos warriors nurgle chaos warriors and nurgle Uh, he was like a nurgle lord And they were all struck down by the light of of sigmar and saw the truth and came over which was pretty cool Yeah, that's not bad. Uh, uh, yes tornas the former nurgle champion remade as a stormcast. Yes Yeah, he's from the realm gate wars pretty cool, dude. I like how his whole force is that as well So that's neat nice Yeah, cool stuff And so then they march out and they have a fight with nurgle. There's a great unclean one named floor plex They kill him and all is You know, like all his nurgle people pretty easily um They tend to die pretty easily. Yeah, like they just plow through these guys and it's just like, okay, whatever Do they have a way to turn off its ward? apparently because the the stormcast show in and just like Boom, just just he he heart shots him He talks to like they just perv. They specifically described the um There you go. So that so that was fun. Yes Uh, so Then they after that fight because we have to have like a pointless fight in these stories Right Yeah, god realm gate wars was just like fight after that's like yeah, just fight after fight. Yeah so rough Uh, demonic daddy says sigmar played power wash simulator to get them nurgle people clean. Yeah, exactly So then we meet a pig army led by crazog horn splitter and They basically trick him It's the best way I can describe it like they split their forces up To make little lanes and then they have the prosecutors like dance around in front of the pigs and be like, oh come get me Come get me and then they just fly away And the pigs just run into the alleys and just like go run themselves out of the force and then the force like Aha, and then they run away Okay So they just like trick the pigs into into not killing them Hmm And so they Basically, there's this big giant woods which there's a scaven symbol on on the map But the scaven never appear in this story in this part So I don't know why they go into this woods. There are no scaven to be found in these woods Everybody else is in these woods everybody okay And they they deviate into the woods to like lose the pigs right because they figure well the pigs can't move at full Speed through this like thick old growth woods, right? Just like okay fine enough concept. So they basically like deviate around their actual goal is is fort guardis Uh, as you might imagine fort guardis is named after its Uh leader who is guard is steel soul. Okay. Okay Turns out Everybody in the universe is going to fort guardis right now Everybody everybody is in these woods Okay, and everybody in or around these woods are all going to fort guardis at this excuse me at this exact moment So We jump over I mean, you know, do we know why? Yeah, I'll explain for all for their own independent reasons. Okay. Okay So let's explain the forces here First off we got broad king broad. Okay. He's leading this big giant stomp of mega gargants He's just angry about storm cast since they killed his dad Okay And he remembers that silver people are bad And so he's gonna go kill where the silver people are and he's pretty sure fort guardis is full of silver people He saw silver people there So he's gonna go there. Okay The storm cast people are sorry the the the the uh, I apologize the um Uh cities crusade that's good. They're going there to find sanctuary, right? And to like find a place to rest and resupply. Okay Now broad had also run over a couple of towns on his way into the woods He had crushed over some small towns and settlements and in that town He he crushed a town that was been defended by a grunt stock expeditionary force Okay So you meet a ko admiral named crufin and all his thunderers. They don't have they only have like gun haulers with them. No big boats and They escape basically out of the the the thing and get ahead of broad and so they're going to guard us for sanctuary Okay And then also we have Zogrock there the the new named hero we'll talk about in a little while the new at least like a the anvil smash a guy Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's there with a bunch of ard boys And he wants to go there for I guess because it sounds like a fun time. Okay So The pigs run into the woods and get lost Eventually accidentally find the trail that the mega gargants have left behind And decide to go and form an alliance with the mega herds Now, I don't know what suddenly makes this them decide that at this moment These guys are okay to ally with and not have a scrap Uh, like why would you not fight these guys? I don't know destruction likes to fight But anyways, they almost have a fight but then Zogrock steps out from behind king broad and he's like, no, no, it's cool It's cool dog. I already made a deal. We're friends with these guys now and we're gonna go kill fort guard us together Okay, sure. Can feel like alliance of convenience, right? So we've got broad And we've got the orcs All teamed up. They're going there Meanwhile in another part of the woods, we've got the humans and they're going through the woods Okay, now the giants and orcs, they stomped over the woods killed like a soul pod Place like we're all the little thing all these memories Everybody was actually mad, right And Uh, so of course the woods are mad. So who shows up? Why old draka hama dryath shows up along with a bunch of spider webs and she's like But she doesn't show up to take revenge on the giants because she's also an idiot She shows up and is like, hey humans. I'm gonna kill you. Why are you in my woods? And it's like, uh, wrong wrong wrong target here So, you know, some humans get pulled off in the woods and die But it's like, you know, maybe a dozen people who cares life is cheap, right? she's about to attack And the the general and the storm cast like she's like the venator like has his bow pointed at dry it dry Joe, right When all of a sudden there's like a light in the woods and it's like And like this little dude floats down with this little horn and a little leaf thing And uh in comes a war song revenant Okay I don't remember what his name is because it doesn't actually matter any He's not a character. He's just a messenger for a laurel and he's like stay your hand draka. That's all cool. Let's all be cool let's be cool cats And uh, we're not gonna have a fight We're all gonna be real cool kittens and we're gonna head over to forkardus Where they're being sieged and we're gonna go help okay, so So they go over to help So now you've got sylvanath cities storm cast Going there to stop the bastion It's already to help reinforce the bastion that is storm cast and cities And then you've got the giants and the orcs Going to attack well on the ko. What are they doing in this? Oh and the ko have showed up at forkardus already early And so now the ko are helping guard us Defendant, okay, so this is all the forces now involved. Yeah, good god Too many people You're doing great war and peace crap over here. Yeah so forkardus is impenetrable because it has A magical shield protecting its inner bastion that cannot be penetrated Because it is built on the prayers and souls and relics of the faithful So of course it immediately falls and gets penetrated and is worthless as all magic shields are fantastic Basically the orcs and giants just get like broad stomps on the ground a bunch And then pigs charge forward and this impenetrable magical shield falls down Okay So sure magic shields are stupid. Don't build them. They don't do anything. This is the end Like you could just yell at them hard enough and they fall down great. Yeah, okay So everybody goes inside and then there's a big giant fight And The good guys all lose. I mean that's what happens. Okay Um, this does lead to a pretty cool picture. I'll show this picture. See if I can find it real quick This is a fun moment like long story short the Sigmarite force it Gardis is like look I'm not getting out of here alive kid, but all of you can it doesn't matter. I'll reforge I'll hold them off You got to get all these civilians who are in the bastion out of here and they'll reinforce your numbers So the so marshal whatever her name is and the knight venator They basically take all they they form like a line and get all the civilians out of there out the back Well, Gardis and the kao are like we like you kid. You're tough enough. You got moxie Gardis We're gonna stand with you and fight. We'd rather die here than go back without profit So basically the kao and Gardis stand up on the battlements and just start like gun and dudes and throw in lightning and stuff like that, right? and Doing the thing. Oh, here we go. And then finally he gets Gardis gets broad's attention and is like your mother was a goblin You're not actually 30 feet tall. You're like five foot. You're five foot 11 Gives him the old your five foot 11 treatment, right? Uh and broad gets all angry and uh, and then Gardis is like, yeah, well come get me if you think you know better Right and so broad then of course doesn't pay any attention to anything else is going on and the other all the kao just like Level their guns right at his face Just unload right because this is this is the scene He sees how like broad is approaching the wall and Gardis is up on top with some judicators Right. All right. That's and so he lures them in so they can all shoot him in the face And then he like when he's blinded Gardis jumps off and wax him in the face With his big hammer and like knocks him over like just topples him down Right and then broad grabs him and crushes him Like death grips him and you see lightning go pull You know up out of his hand or whatever, but it lets everybody else gets gets away All right, I think that that's pretty sweet. And so, you know and then fork Gardis falls okay And so everybody escapes both both and like effectively what happens is Both stories the exact same thing happens just in the guy around side It a lot more people are involved Right We had to like shove everybody into this story So they all were in the guy around side But both stories are basically the same where like the stronghold that they relied on a sanctuary falls The main force continues, but is weakened And their initial foes are then like You know Stopped like truck is held up and then it's going to go wander off somewhere else and broad is like he's He's not dead obviously, but he's like, you know Injured severely enough and a bunch of his megas died and you know the orcs all basically got splattered Um except for Zograk and the iron the yard boys who kind of escaped out the side they were like, oh see where this is going and they kind of just hauled and um And then but both of the crusades continue after suffering like defeats and the and the sanctuaries and the wilderness falling, right? Okay Now That's the main storyline. However All right, folks if you're still with us This is the back to the big stuff. I know we just spent all this time talking this but now we're gonna actually do the big stuff because there's an like There's like a meanwhile elsewhere in the world reports from the front, right Uh elsewhere in the mortal realms. Let's tune in and see what's going on Um over in rondal in the realm of beasts corgis calls on the rampage Uh, so corgis call has taken it Some clone wars. That was a perfect clone wars. I don't know if you watch much clone wars I know you're gonna do you're kind of doing the 40s version. But yeah Yeah, that was spot on with the the intro for the for the clone wars Good. Thank you very much So the corgis call is on a mission to kill a continent Like you know in the realm of beasts some of the things are alive Well, he wants to kill rondal the living continent and everybody on it all the iron jaws. He's gonna slaughter everything This is his sacrifice for his thing for corn, right? And he does good on him He does he gets there Like he just kills everything Like the scene that as they describe it It's just him standing on a mountain of bodies both corn eight and iron jaw And he kills the continent itself and he's like behold me now corn. Am I good enough for you daddy? Am I good enough for you? Do you love me? That's basically the scene Okay, so good for him. I guess way to go As there is a hole in his heart that he just cannot fill his poor daddy did not love him enough I need to go read that story of like corgis call before he was that what was called like the red Duke or something like that. I don't remember. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I can read the name. Yeah So I need to go read that story and see like Did he really have like a father figure issues or something because boy, does it feel like it? Okay Okay Now the big thing the big thing uh Over it so we pick up with astria sulbright remember her I do. Yeah. She's overpriced Yeah, sure So astria sulbright is researching how to stop the flaw in the reforging She's pouring over like as one of the most brilliant minds in the sacrosanct tone or in the sacrosanct order Sorry, she's pouring over endless forgotten tomes and lore right and Quietly she sits there nearly napping when suddenly there comes a rapping a rapping at her chamber door And she learns That there is a secret at a place called charnel court Okay So she's looking for the summer king basically there was this wizard and She's in the she's gonna head to the she takes an expeditionary force to the charnel court to go find this like summer She doesn't actually call him the summer king, but it's very clear. That's what she's going after She calls him in the text She calls him Darn it all. Where is this? Gotta find this here we go Uh Usher on so what she calls him No, she doesn't call him usher on either Underworld of charnel court and the crumbling remnants of a great citadel the summer keep there you go So, yeah, she's going to the charnel court. She doesn't actually name the person um, so yeah Uh, so she's going to the summer keep to charnel court and she's like clearly going to run into the summer king And at first I thought they were just like maybe dropping a little hint okay But then There's a little interstitial with callus and toll the balcony muppets are back Okay And they're like hunting down some dude some guy Like killed his whole family and ate them and stuff like that and she's trying They're trying to get to the bottom of what this made this upstanding citizen kill and eat his whole family, right? And they trace it down to some tainted wine And the wine comes from uh Is labeled like the summer vintage and it's like yet again Basically, this wine is from the summer king and has driven people the mad with cannibalism if you drink it And so once again, we get another reference to this in the callus and toll interstitial Uh, the vendor spoke of the coming of a summer king Likely it was this figure who delivered marylis this his fateful gift When I think of the horror as a single container of this stuff caused my stomach lurches when I consider what might happen Should an entire batch find its way into the city. So yes there they directly named the summer king um, so uh The summer king is apparently coming. This is the new, you know, usher in the summer king the fec guy This is what we know. We've got a new fec book coming. I think we're gonna have that big giant rewrite and he's in there Like new fec figs new summer king new named character Uh, so that's cool And the last note we check in with bastion carthalos Meanwhile at hammerhole There's a big attack on the outside of corn forces he and then like He repels them and then a bunch of scaven Tunnel up inside the city and he's like he calls down the thunder He's just killing things left and right bastion absolute chad that he is just can't be stopped And then one of his messengers comes up to him. It's like sir They've gotten into the ashen cloister and he's like And he heads away immediately to go deal with that. They don't tell you what that means I looked up the ash and cloister or the cloister of ash. It's like a hidden Remember those like store houses that were hidden back in the age of myth That the the storm storm bolts. Yeah, like a storm. Yeah storm. It sounded like a storm. Yeah It's one of those under the under the city of hammerhole and Like there's a bunch of guardians and defenders on this place According to what I could find like really insane defenders on this thing But it's like a magical storehouse treasurer. So he goes off to to check on that. So I don't know. Okay. I hope maybe Yeah, go ahead No, just maybe yeah Uh signs of something to come Something involving some furry furry little friends. Absolutely. I hope it's that they find their sword The cool big sword. I hope is they find it. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be amazing. Yeah So there you go. Yeah, there's some cool things in there. Yep. Yeah the Yeah, we've talked before I just I just continued to struggle with a OS storytelling, but that's a ball of the show So, yeah Yeah, it's fine. Like you don't really get characters. That's the problem I would like these stories a lot better if we actually got like a character If we focused in on one person and actually had their perspective, but these things are at such a high level Right, and like the characters aren't really characters. They're all very very To even call most of these characters two-dimensional would be being quite generous Because they're trying to pack like an insane novel with a story and seven different armies into, you know, 10 pages of lore It's just not a good match. So, right Okay, no underhanded gene. We have not we had story time All right. Now Let's get to the rules All right I hope everybody enjoyed story time there um It's a lot of fun to do story time I like I like reading these things and make it's fun to make my little summary notes Because my summary notes are like malcorn loses because he's an idiot Two cog forts go down. When do we get these awesome figs? You know, that's my notes, right This is an awesome piece of art. By the way, this is him with his oxy rune activated in the story. So pretty cool Um, this this is the the troll king there. Oh Yeah, yeah, that is sweet All right Well, thank you guys for thank thank you. Thank you if you liked it and you haven't hit like yet hit like for story time I promise it will continue. I guess because it's fun to do that Uh, I should start a whole lore series on this channel like vince sarcastically recaps stories Pretty good at it. All right Okay, we're going to begin with trugs trog heard Remember as I said, these are complete replacement allegiance abilities. Take your book throw it out. None of those rules matter Instead you use only the rules in this book Okay, and in addition you're going to have Restrictions on the units you can include in your army All right, okay So for example in trugs trog heard every unit in the army must have both the gloom spite gets keyword and the trogoth keyword Okay, so no like cool boy troll people just these two. Yeah You retain the bad moon and you retain the plus one to save when trolls are under the light of the bad moon Okay So you get those rules still those are still here, but they are completely reprinted Your new rules your aura of haywire magic at the start of your hero phase if you use a friendly trugs malfunctioning Laystone ability the effect you pick applies to all other friendly trugs trog heard units until the start of your next hero phase So Pretty strong as we'll see in a moment, but a little random, but it applies to everything no range Just it just everybody gets it which which could be impactful Mm-hmm And then also the king's records friendly trugs trog heard units that do not have the hero keyword gain a battle line battlefield role Basically, all your trolls are battling you can just be battling with any kinds of trolls as long as they're not heroes So build your army however you like out of any trolls. He would like so Cool So yeah Makes things like your battle tactics actually kind of easy for things like retreat with battle line units and stuff like that So that's fun. Yeah Um or or into the maelstrom or stuff like that so Uh now in these things because they are complete replacements for your Your allegiance abilities your command traits your artifacts your grand strats your battle tactics Again, I cannot state it enough. None of the things in the base book count You cannot give these guys artifacts from your base book. You can't give them command traits from the base book You can't give them any of that None of it So we have to get new stuff as well Okay, so our new command traits which by the way shrug can take Oh, okay, um for both of these for both shrugs trog heard and broads stomp You can up you can give command traits to the these command traits The only these to the unique Uh characters if they're your leader if they're your general So that's nice So Cecil's growth when you roll the dice that determines the number of wounds You can heal with a friendly trugs trog heard units regeneration or greater regeneration ability Add one to the number of wounds you heal. Okay So everybody heals more Yes, they have their own battle tactics gruff. Yep. We'll talk about those in just a moment prized troglit Roll a dice each time an enemy model within 12 inches of this general issues a command on a five up That command is not received It still counts as having been is used and the command point that was spent to issue that command is lost This is a little tricky because the issuing unit has to be within 12 inches But it's stopping the receiving of the command So this is actually like one that could be very easily nothing Sure. Yeah, you just issue from a farther back hero over the time We've had that a fair amount with this This rule we've we've seen this rule a number of times. Yeah, has that legal or that's yeah easy excellent Hades, these are match play legal. There's nothing about they have points All this is completely match play legal. I think they're weaker for the most part. We'll talk about it But they are match play legal and then finally living landmark during deployment instead of setting up this general in the battlefield You can place them to one side and say they're set up an ambush the end of your first movement phase You can set them on the battlefield within three inches of a terrain feature And more than nine inches from all enemy units, which is neat. You can just have trog like wake up from a piece of terrain It's really cool. Yeah, I love that. I'm guessing he's Well, clearly, let's see that with and through between for each one more than I okay, cool Yep, I was just thinking of my head the whole even 16 in terms of what do you know his base size incidentally? I'm guessing it's 100 millimeter round. Okay, perfect. So it wouldn't matter anyway. All right, cool. Yeah, I like that Yeah, he's not too big. He's like on the keeper secret space. It's perfectly reasonable basis Someone who's played with that base quite a lot because of keepers. It's a perfectly maneuverable base. Like it's not too large Those are all pretty solid. I've like said the thing of the prize chocolate. Yeah, you can you can have a way to get around that But yeah healing healing a little extra and living landmark. That's pretty neat Okay Yep, then you've got the thwack weasel club. Um, these can't be given to shrug These are for only other heroes so the command traits can be given but the artifacts have to go to other people By the way, I I know I say this every time. There's also a big old path to glory section Um, I we don't cover it. We don't review it. I don't know anything about I don't really know path to glory So I can't speak on it, but I'm sure somebody should do a review of all that. It seems it seemed cool and big It's like a lot if you're a path to glory fan, man Is there a lot of stuff for you in this book? So just as a note Um subtract one from hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks that target the bearer if they have been picked to fight in the same Phase if you let somebody else go first Honestly, I think that's a pretty great artifact for some of these trolls who are very unlikely to die Yeah, so it's cool Like I like a dank old or something like that. Yeah totally Crunchy shinies the bearer has a move characteristic of d6 inch plus five So you get you basically get a free run But you can still run on top So that's cool. It's pretty good. Yeah And then loonstone teeth the bearer gains the monster keyword if the bearer already has the monster keyword You can carry out two different monsters rampages with it in the same phase instead of one. So Yeah, yeah, all pretty good. Yeah, definitely the first one Especially with a dank old truck boss if I recall their healing is built into their war scroll So they often want to fight second So that their opponent does damage to them then they activate they heal the damage that's been done to them Uh, if it protects the target if they've been picked to fight. Wait, let's see Drag one people one rolls for attacks that target the bearer if they've been picked to fight in the same phase Oh, yeah, sorry. You have to go first. I call this the other way around. You have to go first. Yeah, sorry I switched it around. Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry. Okay. So there's there's a bit of a non-bow there with With a healing what I just said, but yeah, I'm still solid Yep And then their grand strategy they have one leave me alone when the battle ends you complete this grand strategy If a friendly truck is on the battlefield and no enemy heroes are on the battlefield Okay That's fine. Yeah, that could be challenging. Sure Probably not a great one just because the nature of killing all of the enemy heroes is usually pretty hard All right. Yeah, so just go with your ghp ones. Yeah Yep You got uh three battle tactics here Yes, I should say in these armies you can still pick the generic ghp stuff, of course for for that Um, though note if you pick a generic ghp command trait, you can't give that one to truck Um, so you have to have somebody else as your general Um, okay battle tactics don't like that one pick one enemy hero You complete this battle tactic if that hero was destroyed during this turn by an attack made by a friendly truck So he has his own battle tactic to go kill a hero Uh, legitimately not a hard one I suppose if you know you're in a position to execute on it Like if you know you can squish a small hero truck is pretty swingy on damage as we'll talk about but I mean he can get there against a small hero Yeah Um feels funny You complete this battle tactic if a friendly truck's truck heard unit destroyed an enemy unit during this turn While it was affected by the aura of haywire magic battle trait Okay It's fine like It's fine. It's pretty easy to accomplish. Honestly. Oh, yeah, that should be quite easy. Yeah Um, again, it's the same thing like do you know you're going to lift the unit and then do you have the Or I guess it's going to be on like if you're in the actual thing It's pretty easy to affect everybody with them. So We'll we'll we'll talk about that in a second and then what's that glowy thing pick one objective You do not control you complete this battle tactic if you control that objective at the end of this turn and two or more friendly Trugs truck heard units that are affected by the light of the bad moon are contesting that objective So obviously you have to be both contesting it and in the light of the bad moon. So Well, well, that'll be automatic. Yeah, I mean, you just you do not deploy on an objective in your territory, right? And you just want to You just walk on to it. Yes. Like really I think this one has one easy and two Mediums at most like killing things is always medium because dice can like Dice can go wrong. You know what I mean? Um, and so Shouldn't have a pretty killy army though. And if you're just doing all trolls Yeah, so like I actually think it's pretty battle tactic capable They like they can go five for five pretty easy in in faction, which is a strength, which is a strength Um, hey, he said, do you think mallog will be a good choice here? I don't know. I'll stop my head I'm not like the world's foremost expert on trogoth Armies and I don't remember mallog's capabilities straight off the top of my head. I mean, I'm sure I'm sure he's at least interesting. I don't know So we talked a lot about trog. Let's actually see him. So here's trog 16 wounds four up save six inch move eight bravery He is a war master So if he's in a gloom spite gets army, he's treated as a general even if he's not picked to be your general, of course The malfunctioning laystone Okay, we got to talk about this this starts at four dice then goes three two one as he gets wounded But this guy heals like a boss. So we'll we'll talk about that in a second At the start of your hero phase if this unit is on the battlefield You can say that it will clobber its malfunctioning laystone If you do so roll the number of dice equal to the malfunctioning laystone value shown on this unit's damage table Each roll corresponds to one of the results below You must pick one of the results you rolled and apply its effects Results two through six last until the unit this unit next clobbers its malfunctioning laystone Okay Important things here one if you get a result you like You don't have to reclop it It's an optional thing So you can choose to just like if you clobber it And then you you get the result you want and you just want to stay on that You can just stay on that Oh, yeah, yeah Okay, that's cool. Second thing is at the first time you roll assuming he hasn't been like Well horribly wounded by somebody else going first or something and shooting a crap out of him You get four rolls of a d6. So, you know, reasonably you're going to have a decent amount of selection like Sort of the statistical norm here is that you would get three out of the six And have a double and have a double Okay And so like The rolling of the one is bad. That's you should take d3 mortal wounds Okay. Yep. Yep. Everything else is an ongoing buff That remember if you're in the troll thing is going to expand out to everybody else The glyph of gur is plus one to the attacks characteristic of melee weapons for then truck and for all his trolls The glyph of oxy is plus one rend which is scary because it sets him on rend three and makes all his trolls an additional rend Which is wildly strong. Oh, yeah, we're all got chargots. We got a rend three In particular I'd have to look at the dank holds I think they're minus two rends the the bigger ones. Those the dank holds I believe Yep. Yeah, I think they're minus two rend as well. I have to look but interesting. Okay Um, okay Uh, all right, so Uh Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true the that is a good that is a good clarification Um, this is worth saying truck can keep his thing, but it's worth going back up here Because the ore of haywire magic That going out only applies until the start of your next hero phase So if you don't reclaborate it won't keep that won't keep rolling Trug can keep the bonus, but everybody else doesn't thank you. David Campbell. That's a good clarification You understand what I'm saying like Trug can just roll with the bonus But the the ore of haywire magic thing that makes it broadcast out to the rest of the trolls That only lasts until your next hero phase Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah, that is important. All right. Okay All right I know the glyph of highish lets you effectively on a two up refund command points that he issues That the either he issues to himself or somebody issues to him or something like that Um, so it's just kind of basically makes it so Trug can kind of issue for free Yeah, pseudo free um As long as he's the receiver is he's the one receiving it The glyph of lulgu only unmodified hit rolls of six For a tax made with missile weapons that target this unit score ahead Um, again very powerful if you roll it off like if you're facing against something like the the The, um City's shooting army. Yeah, that's a pretty reasonable counter to them I say pretty reasonable because it doesn't actually stop them Uh, Trug still dies on numbers to the fuselier blocks just because of the mortar wounds Like as long as the alchemy or the archmide Warforger goes ham. It doesn't matter. Hmm Like as long as he gets the thing off Trug still dies on numbers to the they get the fuselier blocks Just off the mortar wounds on six He just falls over dead So Like it doesn't matter. They're only hit on a six. It's not really a counter Because nothing that says only hit on a six matters to an army that's trying to just mortar wound on sixes Right, it wouldn't kill him in one volley like that. Even if it's the the standard castle 30 20 block on numbers will kill you 30 20. Okay. Okay. Yep. All right. Well Don't be a bad person and play 50 of them. Just just you know Be reasonable Thank you warhammer players known for that Okay So and then if he and then the glyph of shaman, uh, he gets a war to five up Okay. Yep. Nice Now the important part to understand here is that he only gets to choose one of these things You roll four dice, but you only get to pick one right, uh so like You know, realistically, you're gonna probably be Broadcasting out the only sixes to like what you're aiming for to roll what you want to see is either like a two three or five That you can then broadcast out to your forces. Yep. Absolutely right Well, yeah, the i'm not fighting rolls six with me. So that would just be Oh, you could be getting that out as well the the unmodified sixes to okay. Yeah, I think that's the actual value Yeah, that's cool. Nice Yep, it's cool. He doesn't have a built-in six up ward just like I mean, that's not huge but just something Sure, I mean he's got it's you know, like rocket tragas. They have a five up ward I think built in not all the trucks do but yeah, I'm a little surprised by that. Anyway, yep He's got the crushing grip so you can he can kill people like the big trolls big squishy grip And then he has super regeneration because he has at the start of the hero phase You can heal up to d3 wounds allocated this unit And then when you roll the dice that determines the number of wounds you can heal with this unit's regeneration ability You add three to the number of wounds you can heal. So it's d3 plus three I don't know why we decided to make that two separate abilities, but okay, cool. Sure. Yeah Yeah, amazing healing right like the hero phase you're doing that twice around Yep, pretty sweet So yep the hero phase so he heals fast Yeah, average is up to up to 10 wounds to get it. Yeah, so anywhere from 8 to 12 And he has bravery 8 so you still got a very reasonable shot at the heroic resolve in case you'd really want to dig deep And just like pile on the healing So he could be a d3 plus a d3 plus 3 in a hero phase so Yeah Yeah The key is you gotta one shot him if you're I mean like this he's a he's a dude on a four up with no one Sure Yeah, right So like whatever you hit him with hit him hard enough that he takes 16 wounds. That's that's your key like you got to put this guy in the dirt one go And obviously sadly there's a fair amount in this game that is very capable of doing that in one go And so yeah, that's not that difficult nowadays, especially with no ward And you're not going to be getting crazy safe stacking, etc here So yeah, man What now I've seen a lot of complaints around that right this guy's 320 So I'll I'll just speak to myself right when I saw this model. I'm like, all right. This is like, uh 450 minimum model, you know when I think about The past and these kinds of pieces Let's do it big right? He's the ease of Jesus inner peace So I did find that pretty strange that this guy's coming in at 320 and Yeah, yeah, what do you what do you think? His attacks are pretty average like I mean he's got four to like again talking max profile You know, he's four attacks on threes and threes neg two D six or two attacks twos twos neg two d3 plus three. It's like it's okay You know, his attacks are like average. He's really more of a utility buff piece For in his own force. That's where he's like in in his actual trog herd I mean, I think he's absolutely worth the 320 in his own trog herd passing out plus one rend or plus one attacks Or something like that to your entire army is Really crazy strong I'm not sure he's worth 320 in like a traditional gets army where he's just buffing himself You know, but I mean he's interesting. I think you'll see some play. Um Yeah, he looks like he he really appears to have been written for that more narrative Army of renown as opposed to a addition to a glimpse bite gets You know match play setting. Yeah, you're like the glimpse by gets faction, right? Which I'm not commenting on the power of the scroll and or Relative to the easy worth the points just the fact of where he comes in at right and the yeah the He's obviously his worst goal is not a 450 point worse. I'm just saying I was a little surprised that it wasn't written Yeah, to be a foreign point. Yeah, I mean he seems to be a pretty major character in the story It is a bit surprising Like my answer is I think he's pointed correctly for what's here I think you could have done a bigger bigger thing And moved him up and I would have been fine with it given what he's supposed to be I think if he was like a 400 to 400 negi point Guy, I'd be like, okay, you know, that's where he's Yeah, so Yeah, beautiful model. Absolutely. Super cool. Yeah, he's uh, he's a little weirdo Uh, a little weirdo Okay, that's good Let's uh, look at that sexy thing. Let's talk iron jaws. Yes Uh I believe in miracles All right We've waited long and we're here folks Yeah iron jaws Okay big pig uh, so Uh, let's get into it unleash the unleash the unleash the the pork Okay to utilize this army of renown all units must have the orc war clans keyword and either the maw grunta or gore grunta keyword So it's pigs or nothing Okay Uh This narrative army is trash There you go. Yeah I was having a hard time not coming to that conclusion I it's trash Uh, like I I'm sorry the big pigs are cool. The new units are cool. We'll talk about the new units And I think they're very viable in a normal iron jaws for us and stuff like that This this army of renown is Garbo hot china town garbage Okay What do you get your allegiance abilities are you get the grunta wall once for battle at the start of your charge phase? You can pick one friendly maw grunta general on the battlefield and say they are calling a grunta wall If you do so until the end of that phase each time a friendly maw grunta unit finishes a charge move Roll a dice for each enemy unit within one inch of any models in that maw grunta unit on a three up They suffer d3 mortal wounds. So you get bad impact hits when you call your wall Sure Bad impact hits. That's your wall Regular iron jaws get a bonus rend and and a bonus to charge Okay You get a bad impact hits Okay All of your friendly gore grunts is getting the battle line battlefield role cool the same thing I can do in regular iron jaws with blood tubes. So that's fun And here we come during the first battle round You do not subtract one from the momentum score of friendly maw grunta units at the end of each turn This is actually the most impactful thing in this allegiance ability Momentum as we will see is actually really hard to build Uh Like these guys uncle moe is not on their side. Okay Yeah It is misnamed in my opinion It should not be called momentum. I don't know why it should be called something else Happenstance or it's yeah David Campbell, do they even stack with the gore grunt impacts? No, because these are only for maw gruntas. It doesn't give your gore gruntas impact hits. It gives your maw gruntas Bad impact hits So it's bad. It's super bad. It's super bad Uh, okay, and then you get two monsters rampages greedy gobble You can only carry out this monsters rampage with the unit that has a momentum score of three or less Pick one enemy model within three inches of it and roll a die if the roll is at least double that model's wounds characteristic. It's slain bad Just bad so bad Highly situation. Well, if you got a chaos warrior with uh a roting icon nergal banner you want to Pick it up. Sure. Sure. I'm not gonna say like it's it's I'm not gonna say it's doesn't do anything. It does something But like it's worse than the one on scroll and it's worse than roar. So Yeah There we are Yeah It's worse than stomp And in most cases And then charge down You can only carry out this monsters rampage with a model that made a charge move this turn and is not in a unit with That has multiple models We'll see why that matters in a little while That unit can make a d6 inch move But must finish that move within three inches of any enemy units Then add one to the momentum score of that model. That is actually not a bad one Charge down is actually okay Because it's very likely to actually push up your momentum in a great way without a dice roll This is actually the thing you would do This is a good monsters rampage Because even one momentum score guaranteed is a huge deal Okay So But again, you're never going to use it because you're never going to play this thing unless you're just like Doing a really fluffy narrative thing like it's fine What do you lose? It's important to mention this Everything what did it cost you? Everything, okay? You do not have war chantas Those are pretty important to most battle plans for the iron jaws army. You do not have casters I don't use them, but a lot of people feel they're important You do not have smashing and or bastion You know the thing that defines how iron jaws actually fight and don't just get slaughtered Okay You don't have mighty destroyers The other thing that makes so iron jaws are actually competitive in any way shape or form Because you actually have like mobility and out of phase charging and movement and stuff like that Okay So no Uh, you also can't take any of the base mount traits. So you lose like fast and and weird and and all that stuff Yeah, that kind of blew my mind. I saw that. Yeah It's real bad Okay So you just you give up everything that is iron jaws. That's it And what you get is like a bunch of bad pigs who are going to struggle in this to to actually like accomplish what they're trying to accomplish so um Okay, let's get into it command traits You get one So I guess this is the one you take I suppose you can use the generic ones in the ghp, which is actually what you take But that's fine Um monster hunt it improve the rend characteristic of this generals pig hacker by one for all attacks that target enemy monster trash Take anything else Anything take anything in the base ghp. It's better The dumb one that heals you is better Terrible terrible Uh mount traits you get three of these by the way Um, which is cool Yeah, like this that is actually a neat function of this army like it's not all bad I don't want to make I don't want to I want to give credit where credit is due you do get three mount traits We can't double up And you what can you put these you can put them on any of the three pigs any of the three options Yep, you can put them on any of the three options and if you give them to a Um, if you give them to a unit that has multiple models, um, which is cool Um Then each model in that unit has the mount trait Which is cool. All right. So basically you're only going to ever take three units of pigs Because then after that you run out of mount traits and can't give them anymore Because you can't actually double up on them and there's no other mount traits So your other pigs just get to be worse for no reason Proper arred when this unit is targeted by an attack if the weapon used for that attack has a rend characteristic of neg one You get to change it to zero Okay Cool. Yeah, it's got the old wording on that as opposed to the newer wording that they eventually got to You know reflected in the change to alerith Yep Prop and nasty add one to hit rolls and wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by this unit's mounts If any wounds or mortal wounds were allocated to this unit in the same phase Well, that's good to happen. I will say since you don't have smashing and mashing And won't be able to actually fight out of sequence. You're gonna get hit first So I guess that's okay Um It's pretty good. Yeah, it's fine. I don't hate that one Yeah And then proper wild at the end of the enemy charge phase before any monstrous rampages are carried out If this unit is more than three inches from all enemy units But within 12 inches of any enemy units You can roll a die on a three up this unit can attempt to charge This is the actual good one. Even though you only get it 66 percent of time charging out of sequence is really good Um, I'd rather just take iron suns and just do this not on a three up Um, but it's still like it's a good way to actually get momentum, which is important Because you need to be like charging as much as possible Um to keep your momentum score up momentum is hard to get and erodes very fast And yeah, and it's got the before any month before any monstrous rampages are cut out So you could do proper wild, right? And then you do that. What was that one called the charge down? Yep Yeah, that's basically so you could mention. Yeah, that's which is cool. Which is cool Um artifacts you only get one it's bad. So just take a regular book take something out of ghp Um neat And like I'm not even gonna read it. I just don't care. It's bad. Oh, that is that is terrible Yeah, it's really bad It's like so bad And then uh, I have to move these up a little bit because I realized I was running to the bottom of the thing There we go Uh, and then your grand strategy headed to herd When the battle ends you complete this grand strategy if your general had a momentum score of six at any point during the battle and has not been slain It's actually not terrible as a grand strategy You if if you focus on it, you can get to a momentum score of six on on like your general Because he's gonna get the he's gonna start using the The right monstrous actions that that actually allow that to happen There's a real diminishing marginal utility problem with pigs that the more you take the worst they get Like every additional pig is worse than the one before it Okay, are you speaking in general? Are you speaking specifically with this army right now? Uh, yes Okay, fair Because they lose more and more stuff like the more pigs you have they can't use the good monstrous rampages They don't get the good mount traits. They don't you know what I mean? Like all that stuff starts happening right And so they start getting worse um bcr players will be very familiar with this Right like your first frost lord on stone horn amazing Best one of the best units in the game your second frost lord on stone horn pretty good But good at best your third frost lord stone aren't bad Right like there's this huge diminishing marginal utility to the thing Is there any redeeming features any reason to run this a army for now? My honest answer is no There's no reason to run it other than like you really love pigs and thinking all pig army is cool But I just think it's 10 times better running this and running all these units. It's just in iron jaws Um, I just think this is bad. I think the mount there's a couple of mount traits that are okay And the momentum thing is okay. That's it Yeah Yeah, looking at this. I mean it seems pretty obvious That at least their intention was to make these armies of renown narrative focused like they're not it does not You know that they're designed for yeah to take to a tournament or match play I mean, you know, we're gonna get into one here shortly that yeah May not be fully aligned with that but anyway, yep Then you got three book battle tactics One of them requires you to carry out four monstrous rampages You just have to carry them out. You don't have to succeed Um, but you have to have four pigs four big pigs to do this Which is as we mentioned more than you would want Okay And then deboss leads away you complete this battle tactic if during this turn your general calls a gruntawa And any enemy units are destroyed by attacks made by your general or abilities by your general It's fine. It's completely doable And then full speed stampede you complete this battle tactic if at the end of the turn There are three or more friendly maw grunting units on the battlefield that each have a momentum score of five plus Holy crap. That's hard um like That's hard um Yeah, unless like you already started if you started to turn with all three of them at six I would do this one But if you're below that like if you're at four, I'm not betting on it You haven't said yet because it ticks down at the end of each turn, right end of each turn Yeah, okay. Yeah, let's talk about that Let's get into the scrolls big pig So tusk boss on maw grunta 14 wounds three up save starts in a move of nine. That is not a wound chart He does not have a wound chart. None of the pigs have a wound chart They have a get better chart based on their momentum score Okay Yeah, so which is great. That's important for yeah assessing their you know attractiveness with match play particularly in relation to Three pigs to you know, you know to go around us. Yep. So yeah, obviously the model is beautiful and huge I mean, let me just start there like this dude does look sweet as Um, I didn't put the extra armor on mine down on the jaws because it's kind of weird I didn't I liked him without it. There you go. I wanted to like actual pig part out I just put the helmet on but you know, it's cool. They they look good. I like that. There's different options and stuff like that 380 for Yeah, decent attack profile like six tacks three threes neg one two damage two attacks three threes neg three Um D three damage, but it goes up to d three plus three if you have if you get up to max momentum four attacks at three threes neg one d three and then two attacks at threes threes potentially neg three neg one to neg three Uh, two damage, so he's okay. It's like, okay It's not great. It's not mega boss on maw crush damage, but frankly mega boss on maw crush. It isn't mega boss on maw crush damage He mostly sucks now Um He is head of the stampede if this unit makes a charge move You can re-roll charge rules for all friendly maw grunting units on the battlefield until the end of that phase Which is a cool ability. It's because not range based Like built-in re-roll charges just because of he charged like that's a good ability. I like that Um But really let's talk about momentum. This is the whole story. We're gonna cover it on this guy And then we don't have to cover it on the other two units Yep Your momentum score starts at one Every time You finish a run or a charge You add d three to your momentum score And it cannot exceed six At the end of each turn not round Turn yours and your opponents Your momentum score Uh subtracts by one Goes down by one So if you get doubled you're in a bad way Okay because It falls off twice and you did not run or charge theoretically and either of those turns if you aren't in iron suns or something like that Aren't counter-charging in some way. So your momentum score is just falling like a rock Even if you're going right you're forced to go turn one top of one. Yep Right you roll the average you get plus two you got you got three you go down to two in your turn You go down to one and your opponents turn right you're back down to nothing Yeah, yep weird So it's very hard to build this up Yeah And then you've got headlong charge while this unit has a momentum score of four or more It can charge even if it ran which presents you with this really difficult challenge Because you can risk it for the biscuit with this guy Right. You can just haul and run Top of one or whatever right whenever your turn is you can run and pray to god you roll a three Right. Yeah five you roll a five or six you get a three on the d three Yeah And if so then you can charge and if you hit that then your momentum will skyrocket Right because if you then successfully charge Now you push yourself to an average of like five or six you could very easily Then you can carve a path as well almost automatically Like by that point if you hit that if you hit that five six on the run You're going to be at momentum six by the time you're fighting Like almost automatically because you will charge and you will carve a path and you will be at momentum six Because you'll get three d three total You'll get to six momentum Right But if you fail that roll if you duff it if you only roll the The one or two effectively like one through four on the d six Then you're just stranded out there and then your momentum goes tick tick back down as we described Right So you very much have this like risk it for a for the biscuit strategy to employ there In all pig army Is just not much you can do now In ironsons with mighty destroyers. I actually think the play is you mighty destroyers this guy you get him out there You charge Build up some momentum, you know, you get to like two or three So you've got like the d three plus one damage and stuff like that, right? And then you just go for the carve a path Just go for it try to roll the one or two or one or two or three or whatever Like try to get to four on the charge into the fight So at least then you're fighting and then if you nail the carve like at least you're still fighting and you're not stuck with your butt hanging out in the breeze Sure, right And then best case scenario you nail the carve a path and jump up to like momentum five or six Right Okay, let's talk about carve a path both this guy and the monster only guy have this carve a path monsters rampage Okay And this is a little bit complicated, but it's like if it happens it's strong It's just a very hard monsters rampage to use Pick an enemy unit with a wound's characteristic of four or less within three inches of this unit So that's number one thing you got to pay attention to is you only get to use this special monsters rampage If you're fighting the appropriate types of enemies like you fight suns you fight bcr Something like that worthless. This does nothing Yeah Okay And roll a die if the roll is less than this unit's momentum score and god I hate that they made it less than it couldn't be equal to or less than Well, yeah, I was going to wait until you're done. We'll come back to it The question I want to ask you at the end of all this is It sounds like you think we need Tweet we we need tweaks. What, you know, what are the levers? I have you identified in your mind one or two clear things. It sounds like that's one that that's that was one that immediately stood out to me Like, okay, this feels off. What would I start with? I'd love to start with making it equal to yep That enemy unit suffers a number of mortal wounds equal to the roll, which remember you're trying to roll low Yeah, right. So you're not doing a lot of mortal wounds here if it's successful And you can immediately attempt a charge with this unit Win a unit, which by the way, we're all just assuming the FAQ answer here is I'm already in combat. I get to charge again Right and that like I get to break the normal rule. I'm just just because I don't what else would this do otherwise When this unit charges in this manner, it can pass across enemy units with a wounds characteristic of one or two Next beef. Why does the first part of this trigger off of wounds for and the second part of this trigger off of wounds one or two So weird. Yeah Like this is bad rules writing. I'm sorry. Whoever wrote this, but that's just bad rules writing. You don't Trigger a characteristic check like this and then make it two different numbers in the same ability. This is like 101 stuff Yeah, okay So you can pass across enemy units with a wounds characteristic of one or two in the same manner as a unit that can fly Cool So you can charge over top of screens or get deeper depending where you can set your base This guy's on a chariot base. By the way, a lot of people were wondering about that He's on a chariot base the 120 by 92 or whatever standard chariot base. He's big So like just like it's the same as with ogre's Charging their their monster trucks over you're a monster truck right um and so like Yeah, it's just like this is the most is this worse than roar. Yes A thousand percent. Yes Okay, but are you almost forced to try this? Yes, because because nailing this is the difference between being at high momentum and being at no momentum Okay and The the like The the issue with this is is manifold. There's like design issues. There's everything momentum is hard to get up Let's let's take our best case scenario here Let's say you got to momentum four, right? Like you like so let's reconstruct the thing I said you might destroyers in I and then I went and then when I charged in I rolled the d3 and I got a four Yeah, I got to four That means I've got a 50 50 shot of carving path working Right, assuming I charged the right thing That's it Like your sort of best case scenario is a 50 50 shot If you can get up at like momentum five or six it gets better But then you're just you know, it's not it's just helping to shield you and keep you up at momentum five or six But it's not actually doing that much some mortal wounds and letting you get deeper like it's cool effect the problem is it's like It's it's the opposite of a dig out effect The worse off you are the worse this is this reads like something that's trying to buff you and get you out Of the the the problem, but it's not it's completely duplicative The better you're doing the luckier your roles The easier it is to do the thing you don't need as much anymore You get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, the more you need it the worse it is Yeah, I mean just to back up what it's worth So with the nature of momentum and the momentum scored in the momentum table, right? I feel on the math There's not that big Of a benefit that you're getting If you're getting up, so let's say you're really trying to get to that six Like anything in the new man, right? We're talking about two attacks on kill choppers with the minus Let's say minus you're trying to get to least minus two brand or the minus three brand on the six You're talking about two attacks And then yeah, you're talking about d three plus two or d three plus three not huge and again, that's on That's for the mighty tusk. That's another two attacks So it's it's not yeah like like the difference here isn't that meaningful in my mind with the math But I don't think that necessarily Changes my opinion of how off Momentum seems to be sure like I mean it matters when you go to rent in this bad You might call it bad The state of the game. Yeah So anyway, that's a fair point. Yeah on the minus three So what do you What specifically would you change? You've mentioned you would make it equal to with a carbapath. You mentioned you would do I would clean up the wording up just so it's like it's just triggering on wounds four or less Like if that's if that's going to be a restriction fine fine and dandy like I can accept the restriction Right. I just like can we please make it? um Can we please make it one thing? Yeah, yeah, I feel like that Would be reasonable as well as well if the roll is less than notice if the roll is equal to or less than That seems very reasonable to me. Is that enough? Is there anything else that you would modify I I think that would be a great start I really do just making it equal to or less than it's not the biggest move in the world But it actually does have a pretty meaningful impact on your ability to like utilize the thing Right, because you're still right on the average. Yeah, you're still just getting at an average uh, right Yeah, like if I'm moving Not what that means is that when you roll the average on your momentum and you go to momentum three You still have a 50 50 shot of pulling off the thing, which is still bad Still bad, right, but it it's like It certainly would be I think meaningfully more notable than I'm using fancy words here That just instead of saying the point, uh, I would be more compelled to do it As opposed to the five up, which I'm never going to do probably All a sequel, but the four up. Yeah, that that gets a little more interesting. Anyway, it's it's off I think the tldr. I think we both agree on that Um, in general, it's just it's a little off. It's too underwhelming. I think Now there's one more truly disappointing thing about this guy that we have not yet mentioned tyler. Okay But it's worth discussing All right Okay By the way, let's let's just just for for sort of, um, Like sake of of argument here. Let's talk about the damage ranges on this guy real quick before I talk about the the Disappointed the other disappointing thing. Okay, sure Sure So you might say how what's this guy, you know, we talked about this guy. We talked around his damage What does he actually do? What are you getting for your 380 points? This guy at momentum one Okay Unbuffed like his straight stats at momentum one to a four up save. He does an average of nine damage Okay, not great On against a three up save. He does an average of seven Okay Yeah, pretty bad pretty bad Pretty bad For at that at that price point. Yeah, sure if that doesn't feel good quite terrible Now if we put him at momentum six, so let's look at the opposite end right and get a full range here If he's at momentum six and is on all out attack Okay His damage against a four up is 15 Okay, yeah, and I know it actually quite reasonable Yeah, well and of course with iron gel. I'm sure people are screaming at us. Hey guys There's things called violent fury and all that attack finest hour, right? It's such a such a right, but like obviously this is not layer So Yeah, like I'm taking him here in the pig army, right? This is my problem Without violent fury and that you have in the regular iron gels force right Without The actual wall calling the actual wall to give him an extra rend pip Across the board right you start doing all that stuff. He gets way more attractive in regular iron jobs Right. Yeah, my point is It's just not doing that much right so um Yeah, I I like I just really don't like either you could move headlong charger down to a three or more That might be something you could move the carve a path to to be less than or equal to that would be good right So yeah Okay. Yeah, just a little off. Yeah with with uh Okay, uh Cool. Yeah, iron jobs with him is a thousand times better than the army of renown He's the army of renown is bad and he's bad in it Right like I can't state this emphatically enough In actual iron sons. He's got gas in the tank. That's what you put him in Where he can be moving around and counter charging and stuff like that. That's great He he can do work and in fact, I think he's better as a general than the mall crusher I think he should be down points. I think he's still too expensive 380 is too much for this guy. He will come down over time. This dude will just come down Have you mentioned a may miss? Have you mentioned yet that this guy's not taking command traits or artifacts from iron jobs? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Let's talk about it. Why do I say that even though? In fact, this guy is a tusk boss. He is not a mega boss meaning For no reason we decided to give this guy a different keyword Okay And he can't take even if you take him in iron jaws. He cannot take the generic command traits or artifacts Awesome crazy awesome Yeah, I'm really hoping that gets a day one irata or not day one. It's such garbage. It's immediate irata. Yeah Yeah, it's like it's that's complete nonsense Like why can't I give this guy destroyer? There's yeah, there's There's nothing here that would be too overpowered or out of bounds or anything I mean, you're gonna Maybe what do you what would you even give this guy with a command trait like probably hulking brute? Uh, give him the impact hits on a two up Deep immortals like that. Yeah Uh, because he he's not able to issue money to can he issue money? Oh, I guess he gives you my destroyers Yeah, you could give him that. Yeah, you could give him the devil issue. It's fine. The mega boss. Yeah, that might be interesting Yeah, mega boss. He's pretty good on him. Yeah Like there's options. There's options in the list that I would give him right now Uh, like yes, he could take arcane tome in a wizard command trait, but then that's silly um Like right now I would give him that I still think he's better than the mega boss on malcrusher Let me just say that even with that restriction because that's because the mega boss on malcrusher is such garbage right now Um, that guy doesn't do anything. He dies super easy and he's 450 points I'd rather save the 70 points take the generic command trait for five up. I get um Uh, a bonus command point since this army is so hungry for command points like so hungry for command points And take the the artifact leaves you plus one to wound on a profile or whatever. Whatever it is I don't know for us for it. We don't have to look at some less like are you getting real value out of the 70 Uh, it's that you're saving it matters. I don't know It matters. I built a few lists. It matters You notice it. Yeah Okay, like that's 10 points away from getting your iron skulls boys for free And those are like that's a very impactful unit to be getting basically for free You know, you don't have the triple issue mighty destroyers But like again if they actually are out of this so you can properly take mega bossy I could still double order or I can take a mega boss on foot and still double order Right. Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm sold if you're assuming that What needs to happen will happen, but as of right now. Yeah for what it's worth. I don't see it over a over a cabbage But the other key is I can still give this guy fasten Yeah, as well because you can still take the base mount traits Which lets me then fly out and and like make this guy really much more mobile in the way I need him to be so There you go Okay, yeah, I love him in iron skulls. I think he's really good. I'm gonna try next time I play I'm gonna actually I've got an iron job an iron suns list built up with him We'll talk about some of the challenges in iron suns though Okay, let's keep going The regular maug run to uh, this guy's not a hero. It is the same unit But it has a four up save instead of a three up save But and his his like the actual guy on top has like slightly weaker attacks Um, he's just because he's just a big big brute basically so his gouge or chopper attacks He's got four attacks on three threes neg one two instead of six attacks on three threes neg one two It's it's an almost Irrelevant difference. Um, he's still elite so he can issue orders to himself and otherwise He's exactly the same so let's carve a path all that stuff. I actually like this guy quite a lot I like this build a lot Why 110 points cheaper for yeah for not that much of a difference in efficacy The biggest hit is the three up to four up save obviously But 110 points is probably the appropriate amount of savings for that kind of a move So These guys both of these guys feel overpriced to me right now But that's our running theme with some of these four schools. I didn't say it. I told you this for what this is worth The looking at most of these rules man It felt like they've been sitting on these releases and rules for quite some time. Yeah, like this feels to me like Well, these guys are costed for a meta that doesn't exist. Yeah, it's like fall 2021 Sort of rules writing points points pricing Maybe early 2022 like quite a while back into the into the past for what it's worth yep Like I could absolutely see these guys going down as well. I agree with you They're a little too expensive like 270 is a little wild for what this is, but it's fine. I like this unit Um, I like this unit fine. It can still get up to the same Still has basically the same attack profile can still do basically the same damage But it does it 110 points cheaper and to be completely honest with you if anything gets into your big pig it lifts it Because it's just it's it's like the three up save four up save it doesn't matter You're just as dead if any if anything with significant offense gets in there. It's just lifted Pick up your toys mate same as the mega boss on mawcrusher like all of them just die instantly Yeah, it's it to anything I back it with the momentum. I mean, I don't speak it like I feel I love the idea It's just the execution the details are a little off, right? Like I think it's a very intriguing idea very appropriate. It'd be cool to play Uh, yeah, I I don't know age. Yeah, it's just a little off Anyway, I just wanted to get that in there because I don't want to be all negative with it There's real problems. No, I actually I think these guys are fine. I think you guys are both good. Actually. I like them in ironsons I think their points are just slightly too high. That's it. Yeah, that's and that's fine If the what we always talk about is the raw material being good, right and we can find the points that work This is not a bad scroll this and the and the and the boss are not a bad scroll. They need some FAQ fixes Carva path could use some touch ups, right? But this is minor stuff Like if even if Carva paths never changes if the big guy comes down to 340 and this guy was 250 or something I'd be like, okay I can live with it. You know, I mean like it's not great. It's not as good as it should be but I can live with it Yeah Okay, okay. Yeah Then the mall grunta gouges these guys are 12 wounds on a four up save they don't have the little sidecar boys Right, so you lose that that the choppy choppy attacks Um, otherwise you have the same sort of stuff. They still have momentum. They still have headlong charge They are a monstrous regiment So they have their little they can because this is a this is Not this doesn't have single Okay, so you can reinforce this thing Oh, okay. Yeah only one model this unit can carry out a monstrous rampage each turn So you're saying if you're reinforced it only one can still Yeah, you don't get to stomp with everybody Right. That's okay. Yeah, you like the big type that the The triple means right the big guy stomps and then he gets the difference is there like you get a bonus for your other other babies in the unit or whatever um But here you can take two of them to 360 for two Uh, they go battle line if you have a mall grunta general, which is cool. You don't have to be in the the actual Um faction to get these guys's battle line, which I don't hate This is actually an interesting battle line option as a one of um in the new yeah Another reason I like the mall grunta as a general because it turns these guys on his battle line Um, which I think is actually interesting Yeah, I was looking at some list man. Absolutely. That is fair. Yeah Uh, they have their own special, uh A monstrous rampage Which I quite like Um flattened into the mud only a model in a unit that has made a charge move This turn can carry out this monstrous rampage Pick an enemy unit with a wounds characteristic of one or two within three inches of this unit and roll a die If the roll is less than this unit's momentum score the strike last effect applies that enemy unit until the end of turn Once again, we're dealing with why shouldn't it white? It should be less than or equal to I don't mind the restriction of wounds one or two. You need to use this piece carefully But strike last I actually like as a very powerful ability It's actually neat because sometimes your smash and bashing will fall off and a unit might get out of Out of your your rotation where you're not fighting first This is a way to make sure they stay locked in prison and you you keep up activating Yeah Again, these guys are overcosted like if you do the comparison between these guys and three pigs There's just no comparison They do less damage. They have less wounds. They count as less on objectives Yeah Okay, so I agree they're overpriced. I don't think they're similar theme that overpriced No, they have On paper more staying power, right? That that is you lose a pig. You're losing What three attacks and two attacks you lose seven attacks per pig And attacks three on the guy three other three on the guy four on the pig one pigs Yeah So in principle a little more staying power, right because they don't have a damage table So I like that. You get a monster. That's nice. So there's some You know pluses in their in their column compared to the pigs, but yeah, probably what 160 Just go 160. No, it's exactly the numbers in my head. Yep 160. Yeah Yeah Yeah, I was looking at a number of list men before the show today just trying to get a better sense and I had this guy and a lot of lists as a it's nice for a list building, right? Because it goes into a behemoth slot as you said it can be a battle line That's cool. It's got a couple benefits there. It helps with your low drops Which you often want to do with iron jaws. You can play for the classic double To push through and yeah, yeah, it's not it's not that far off Nope And again, I like it's monster strong page. It's kind of interesting A funny note to return back to the story in the story The pigs don't show up in the attack on Fort Gardis for quite a while And they're like and they the explanation for that is because the leader literally ran around the whole city To build up momentum before you charged So you just ran for like three turns straight and then then came into the fight And like boy is that actually that's actually real storytelling there as to how it feels to play these guys I thought that was a hilarious little element in the story. So they're fine That's great. Okay What what have you Didn't you get you got a game it with some piggies? Yeah, I have I played I played with big pig I liked him. Yeah, um, he got lifted Because of some bad save roles and and I just like I really duffed him say usually bad and got and died to something I shouldn't have but I really enjoyed him Um, now I got pretty lucky on my car for path rolls, which is how that's gonna go That's what it comes down to So All right for enough But I I did like him. He did good damage. He was you know, he chopped stuff up. He was okay Again, I had him in in iron suns. I really just like Number one FAQ changes. Can we please for the love of everything that is holy? Just FAQ the guy to be a mega boss like I cannot stand that guy not being a mega boss. It is so stupid It is the dumbest thing that we created a new thing and none of the artifacts work on him I just I cannot explain my my My iron jaws level of rage over that that makes me want to punch some armor into shape and then go to war Sure Um, our boy big boss 100 points six wounds on a three up save which is cool. Nice low save Um, he can he can rally he can double rally basically Um, only our boys and he returns back our boys on a five up And he also makes it so our boys new shield bash rule triggers on a Five instead of a six which sounds really good until you read the shield bash rule and realize how bad it is This guy is okay. If you happen to need a cheap hero That's that's it. I don't see him showing up in many lists Yeah, a lot better if they had used the newer language, which again It's just another indication that these war scrolls were written along a while ago Because as we'll get into yeah, it's just it has the old rules with the Chaining or with with the mortal ones at the end of fighting Yeah, man. I Also also also hold on one more thing. Yeah Why does this guy not pull our boys into combat with him? Oh, sure Isn't that what like that's how we've written Every single Uh, one of the heroes like this like cheap utility foot assassin heroes He has the literal standard storm cast profile five tax three threes neg one two Every other version of this guy that's been written for the past year and a half Yeah has been written to pull their unit that they're clearly tied to into combat with them when they fight This guy doesn't Longer longer than that, man. Let's over we're over like we're going on two and a half years almost now Sure, we're going back. I was being generous Not I mean it just because I was gonna you know My excuse is not going to play you right because we were seeing this in the original the og 3.0 battle tones We were seeing that so yeah, that is strange Uh, I really want to like this guy. I mean, I think he's uh, you know, he's sort of a middle of the road war scroll That should be playable I'd really like I said like a lot more if we can fix the Fix something that would allow get bashing to be more Relevance, but you know fix our boy war scroll. Here's the simple math. I do with this guy. Am I taking this guy or another war chaner? Oh, sure. Yeah, it's the war chaner or or uh, I don't care if it's my fourth war chaner. I'm taking the fourth war chaner sure yeah Incredible model He is a really cool model Like if he pulled ard boys into combat So again, he was a way to like sneak around smashing and bashing and like help synergize with all of that I'd be here for him That help. Yeah But no But anyways, let's move on. Yeah Let's move on to a guy who rules Okay, sure. Yeah Zog rock anvil smash uh now we're back in the mix uh Okay, seven wounds with a three up save and an eight bravery only a four inch move but that's standard 160 points. He's worth every penny. He has a little squig boy with him. Okay. Yeah Um, and that's fine. The squig boy doesn't really do anything Damage why the sky damage wise this guy doesn't actually like do anything Um, because you're not going to take the ward smashing choppa that does the damage You're going to take the grunta tongs. So this guy like doesn't do damage. So which is fine um The power of the great green god this he uses this in the story by the way Um, yes In your hero phase you can pick one friendly iron jaws unit Hold you within 12 inches of this unit and roll a die Add two to the roll if this unit is armed with grunta tongs Which you're going to take because you want to do this on a two up On a four up or two up if you have the tongs that unit's weapons are green hot until the start of your next hero phase Wall units weapons are green hot Unmodified hit rolls of six for attacks made with melee weapons by that unit cause one mortal wound In addition to any damage they inflict hallelujah Uh, because that is what this army has actually needed like I know that sounds funny But damage wise iron jaws actually is way behind the curve right now Yep And they can't punch through on any turn except that when they call the wall Yeah Absolutely man. Yeah And yet at first glance it felt like 160 is a little high for this guy But then I'm thinking of this guy on six pigs with a new coherency roll with the impact of the pig The mortal wounds on the pigs the minus two minus three random pigs the biofury in the pig, right? Like that's gonna be It's a lot of damage It's gonna be pretty scary I love this guy with six pigs. By the way, that's what he does in the story It's exactly what he does He charges it up and then as the pigs roll by he drags his tongs across their armor And there are there and their weapons all the light with the the fury of the great green god and they just go and kill and things I'm like, I went and read this guy's rules read that story and I was like, yep checks out Truth detected And then he has the ward smashing choppa, which you're not going to take It's if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with this unit's ward smashing choppa Is six and the target has any wards that unit's wards smashed For the rest of the battle the ward rolls can't be made for that unit cool It's a perfectly cute need ability, but like no pass I don't want this guy fighting in melee. I want to behind the line buffing six pigs to go in and just be a missile And then buffing the big pigs do the same thing like again that kind of it's just such a huge damage add It is Wild what this does to a unit of six pigs That unit of six pigs Makes uh 43 attacks So on average this adds seven mortal wounds Seven seven eight. Yeah Yeah, pretty nice, man. Yeah, so you're doing Five mortal wounds and the impact hits. Hopefully five. Yeah around five. So that's no mortal wounds and If you were to know it's a lot a lot It means pigs can be actually super deadly even off the water Right, right this guy rules This is the next guy I'm painting by the way. This dude needs to I'm like getting my army, buddy I'm here for you I might actually use the other guy Like the art boy big boss. I might use him Because I kind of like his frame better than than zog rock and just like Give him zog rocks weapons or whatever Sure. Yeah. So you think this guy is spot on at 160 or yeah totally for that kind of utility effect I'm happy to pay for it. I ask myself the question. Am I happy to pay for that 160 for that effect and the answer is yes I wish more utility heroes across the game were pointed fairly like this Yeah, I was like thinking of the war forger compared to this dude That's uh, that is 160. Yeah No, never has something been thrown into more stark contrast than this guy against the alchemy war forger Yeah Where I can almost get two alchemy war forgers for this guy's cost and their effects are in aoe bubbles But we all know that guy is ridiculously undercosted. So, you know, it's not a fair comparison This is actually I think the correct fair amount more utility heroes should be priced like this You want the big bonus you pay the points Yeah Cool Yeah, I like this dude. He's fine cool Brute ragers and weird brute wreckers the brute ragers Uh, so both of these guys the major problem with them Is that they lost the coolest thing about iron jaws, which was being completely covered in armor What are you doing guys like in the story? They're so mad. They're like, uh Then they you know kind of take their armor off or they get bashed in the head They wear these masks is like different explanations for why they're not wearing armor Really, I think they're just not wearing armor so you can tell them apart from the normal brutes That's all the reason is Yeah I will still model mine with armor like I'm just gonna put brute armor on them. I don't care stop it Like I'm not I didn't I didn't get in the iron jaws game to not play armor clad works. Okay The ragers are a hundred points for three their elite they can run in charge and realistically, you're either going to take the gore hacka if you're Uh, a coward or you're going to take the brute crush. Uh, if you're not If you're a warrior Um, the the if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a brute crush is six That attack causes three mortal wounds to the target and the attack sequence ends The root crushers normally three attacks on fours fours neg one d three. I like these guys a lot I like these guys a lot a lot at a hundred points. They can never be battle lined under any circumstances Okay But I love them as either 100 points for three to sit on a flank and go do surrounded destroy and then come in turn three or four to Help mop up on weakened targets Mm-hmm Or as a six pack to be a beta charge like a counter charge Because six of these guys coming in with brute crushes Uh is 18 attacks That uh is an average of nine mortal wounds kicking off of there plus whatever their normal hits are which are still fine Yeah, that's great These guys of the big winner in terms of competitively out of everything the one that gives me I'm a lot of concern, but a little concern I just that that's a very efficient price Yes, I'm they're they're gonna die easily. I mean they're epitome of a glass cannon We've just gone through this with slaves of darkness ride where theridans I think have gotten like three point drops because they've not been played much and and they're essentially brute ragers So the theridans precedent should give you know kind of ease any concerns I could see these guys getting spammed a fair amount They're they're efficient man. They're gonna do a lot of work So I'm yeah, I'm just hoping we don't see the spam with with these guys I really don't think you will because they can't be battling under any circumstance and as we'll talk about making your army now Is actually pretty hard. Yeah I just think that's that's the actual thing that stops it You just can't spam them because you have to spend too many points on your heroes in battle line You just don't have the points. Yeah, actually looking at the best you're doing is 140 right now with brutes for your battle line Which is the wrong choice The cheapest you're doing. Yeah interesting But yeah, amazing amazing unit right you could triple mighty destroyers these guys triple. Sorry triple Run these guys triple auto six run these guys right and still charge with uh with the cabbage. That's cool So you can mighty mighty destroyers them so they're going eight And then ought to run them so they're going total 14 now and now they're charging Plus one on the wall. So yeah, you're getting at it 21 22 inch threat range if you're able to execute that Obviously, you're not always going to be in range or out of range to do mighty destroyers But yeah, it just it can give them an extraordinary threat range. Yep. So really interesting And then the wreckers who I don't like as much they only have the chain smashes, which is six attacks four fours and egg one two damage um They have a five up ward while they're close to enemy units The problem is they're like they're really built to fight a thing that doesn't exist Um If the unmodified hero for an attack made by this unit six and the target has 10 or more models The attack scores two hits on the target instead of a one It's cool. Like I think good against like zombies and stuff like that, but then they'll just die mortal wound crack back So But they're okay. Yeah, they're fine. It's just they shouldn't be 125 for three Exactly what yeah, is it just 100 for three? I mean, I think ragers are so attractive at 100 Um, again, maybe there's somebody that would argue that's probably like 110 Yeah Like I I could see 110 for both of these ragers and wreckers Like I could see an argument again. I don't think we're that far off But maybe 100 is pretty efficient in my mind on those ragers Yeah, I think it's the right points cost. I really do like I stand behind it Because because of the fragility like they're going to die on the crack back to anything. So yeah, because it's nine wounds Yeah, I've saved 125 Yeah, definitely too way too high. Yeah, also why is ending in five more more evidence for this was written a long long time ago, right? Right because they still have five point models, which is just dumb Um, I love how I love how they're trying to grind all the five points out of the points And yet because they're forced into releasing this crap that was written probably two years ago They still have this dumb stuff coming into the ecosystem Okay Okay, and then finally new hard boys Two ones each three up save now, which is great Um, they have a champion which is cool Um, and they have a standard bearer and they lost their musician which sucks That sucks that super sucks Hey sculptor Whoever sculpted these couldn't throw a horn on somebody You know, I really hate how we under count I hate that standard bearers and musicians actually have rules that are impactful as they are because Oftentimes it's the best rule on the war scroll How many war scrolls have musicians that give them plus one to run in charge? A lot is the answer. Yeah, that is generally the best rule on that war scroll And it's so under counted it's just like we just pretend like it's nothing like it's just some freebie Like it doesn't matter And it matters a lot Yeah Right and so like because a sculptor whoever made these just decided not to put a horn or a drum On these guys when they used to have a drum they had a drum player, right? But somebody decided no there's can't have a guy carry the drum anymore Okay, they lost their bonus to charge I just I hate that I hate that we have to live in this stupid whizzy wig territory Where someone's writing rules and making a unit quite a lot materially worse Because somebody didn't put a drum on a single orc What a chain of nonsense It was really meaningful with uh the hand of gorg teleport play right on the wall Yeah, you're now you're just looking for seven with uh with a re-roll. So yeah Yeah, unfortunate Yep, just like it's such a catastrophic loss for no reason Okay, here we go. I'd wonder you can either give them the choppers the stickers The choppers get plus one attack on the charge to stick as get plus one to uh rend when you are charged Make sense, okay And then obviously standard spear two inches before up to hit thing going on there all right And then shield bash Each time this unit fights after all its attacks have been resolved pick one enemy unit within one edge of this unit And roll a die for each model in this unit Within one edge of that unit These dice rolls are referred to as shield bash rolls for every shield bash of six plus that enemy unit suffers one mortal wound Um, it's a bad rule because it only triggers the extra mortals for your models They're still within one inch and in many circumstances not all if you're fighting some big giant monster It's quite useful because they like on a pipe late place like archion or say a mega boss Um, you know, you'll still get all your shield bashes, but like with most people they'll just pull their casualties So you barely have anybody Uh in line for the shield bash and then you're like You get nothing out of it Yeah, I mean it's a source fight. Yes, correct, which I don't think is a good rule unless you're fighting those big monsters And that kind of thing so yeah So I think we're both in agreement. They're overpriced. Where are where are you at what they should be? Uh for gone because we play 2000 points in a os. It's a very simple answer I know that sounds simple But why why they should all end in tens because we don't need the Because we do not need the discretion of fives They've f aq'd almost every five out of the game and because the anchor point of warhammer the game is 2000 points So, yeah What do you guys think that they should be points wise? I agree. I know you feel 220 is overpriced. I agree 180 or 200 Uh 200 probably to start. I don't know about the 180, but but certainly like they're clocking in um Oh people are saying they can't pull the casualties the source bite f aq implications that the bite happens before removals After all this attack result. That's interesting. I'll have to go back and look at that that changes my perception of this lately then that's good I'm that's I hadn't thought about the source f aq the idea of all of its attacks have been resolved casualties are part of the attack resolution step So I'll have to go back and read that f aq Um to make sure So, okay The big huge change here the implications for this are massive because they can only be taken in 10s You lost your cheap Your cheap battle line option. I mentioned in big pig you want iron suns But you need blood tooth to make the regular gore grunt is battle line So if you're in iron suns where you want to be to use the big pigs now your only battle line options are 220 point 10 man arboys units 180 point maw grunt a basic guys Right And 140.5 man brute squads Yep These guys definitely are worse than chaos warriors like period Worse than yeah That's probably fair Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, absolutely Yeah, your market chaos warriors is usually nervel might just want to wound melee five up mortal wound against mortal winds Yeah, you've got yeah, you got other layers But I mean obviously you can get these guys with violent fury, but you're gonna have other priorities for violent fury So that's probably not happening unless you're really leaning into our boys so Yeah I'm at 200 as well But like I said, I think chaos warriors should have stayed at 200 which seems to be not a popular opinion I like I think honestly these guys could like if these guys dropped to 180 I wouldn't fight it is my honest answer I know for a fact they're overpriced at 220 though. They are Absolutely worse than chaos warriors chaos warriors have a built-in mortal wound safe Chaos warriors can take a mark chaos warriors can take an insertion banner Chaos warriors can can in certain builds get uh eye of the gods bonuses, right extra extra tax, right? Yep. Yep. Just like the list of synergies on that unit is massive, right? And by the way chaos warriors aren't very good well supposedly I mean that I Again, I I think they're being they've been underrated I I get it. I get why they're not being played as much Uh, anyway, we don't have to go into that debate. No, that's fine. And so my point is is that like whatever you think They're not being taken to a huge degree, right? Yes, exactly. That's right. And chaos warriors just went down 20 points to 180 And they yeah, they suffer from the 32 mills, which I'm guessing these are boys around 32 mills Probably they are correct. Okay. Yeah, so Yeah, because the force to hit is the same issue of the chaos warriors on their halberds so Yeah, but Yeah, man. Yeah, like it's it's not a trade-off. I see some people talking about like, oh, they're they're, you know It's trading offense for defense versus chaos warriors or something. No, they're just worse chaos warriors in all regards Chaos warriors have the exact same attack profile two attacks three threes minus one one Yes, you can get plus one attack on the charge with your chapas So can chaos warriors if they have the mark of corn, right? That's exactly the same bonus Um, but chaos warriors can then also stack on a source of banner on top of that They can also stack other things on top of that like they have more synergies They can be pulled into the fight automatically from their chaos lord, uh on foot leader Right Like they have a ton of other synergies that can stack on them that that our boys just can't because these guys aren't your primary violent fury target All that stuff i'm talking about in in in slaves You would target your chaos warriors with it, especially if you're trying to use them as an animal right Yeah Yeah, maybe some folks will try the the chop is route chop is affection triple violent fury Action going on, but yeah, I mean backing up dude. I'm sorry. I love that we this is one of the most beautiful Oh model redesign is incredible. And by the way, I just want to be clear. I think That our boys the scroll is not bad. I think the scroll is very functional and it does what it should do They actually going to a three up save is a huge deal. They can fill the angle roll This is the correct design What's wrong here is only the points, which is the story for most of the iron jaws section Right, right Yeah, right. I just want to be super clear. I think the art boys scroll is good like cover this up Right and I read this and I'm like, yeah, great. Perfect exactly what we needed I hate that we lost our musician but Like This was the correct design turning them into an anvil Right where they're actually filling a real role in the army good good Okay, uh, so like I'm I'm fine with that right Yeah Are you running any in your list? Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I honestly, I just use 10 of them. I think it's fine Yeah, yeah, that's most of my list or that I was writing today were 10. Yeah Yeah, I mean like I think you could do a big block. I think it's 20 I think it's an over investment But I mean they they will be pretty hard to move Except by the sort of super hammers, but you know, it's fine It's nice that these guys have an anvil. They're just overcosted They should be like somewhere between 180 and 200. That's that's the correct points cost for them. That's it And then they're fine Yeah, I mean I'm yeah, I think I think we're just some errata and point changes away from This being pretty good, you know rules wise. I mean models wise. It's incredible. It's amazing. We finally got this release It's just yeah, they're really going to have to do some work here It's uh, you know all of these little things we've been discussing points and and then the errata changes Making the test boss and that boss etc etc and we'll be in a pretty good place with a lot of these The nice part about this release with the iron jaws to just summarize my thoughts here Is that all of these scrolls are actually pretty decent? There's a few mechanical problems here and there But the scrolls have some good meat. So all we need to do is get the right points as somebody who is uh, Dakota phoenix said these the points are the best problem a war scroll can have Absolutely agree because that'll work itself out over time right So list building feels pretty tight right now and uncomfortable because of this but It'll get better over time. So Yeah, I've been I don't know about she man But I've felt it in some of the lists that I wrote quickly but obviously with advice You know how I like how I like to write lists at the the wound count in particular was a bit of a red flag With an army mostly a four of save. Yep The wound count wasn't high enough with a lot of no, you'll often come in with pretty low wounds with iron jaws right now And that's unfortunate Yeah, so because you just don't have the meat to take that hit Especially when you got armies out there regenerating half their unit strength every time you actually kill a thing For free and not having to pay for that in their points. Okay. Cool. Son's a bad bot. Let's do it Yeah, because uh, we are Deep into it so much for that two hour goal Yeah, or Yeah, see if we can stand at four hours at this rate. Okay Um, we can do that. Oh, yeah. Well, I hope so. We're gonna finish this up quick Yeah king broad stomp. Uh This one I think is actually interesting Totally, uh, I like this a lot. Yeah. So do I this is the one I've been waiting on Uh, the realm is ours each mega gargant has a mightier mix right your score blah, blah, blah You still get that from the face rules. Okay, cool If your army and then the world's titans profit if your army includes king broad He has a ward of five up while he is within three inches of any other friendly units That's pretty freaking cool a five up ward on your big boy a big centerpiece. I love it. That's great That's very very very strong on him. Yes, it means you have to walk like two units around together So it reduces your overall movement on the board, but that's fine Generally, I found I always kept him near one other guy anyways Because he was usually trying to like double up with like the b-smasher or something like that So I'm actually okay with this this restriction Get a little baby a little baby buddy to go with him. Sure. He could just have a little baby, buddy Baby, baby Baby Billy's bible bonkers. All right, so we got baby Billy following him around Uh now Let's talk about this next thing I don't realize do you realize how problematic this is tyler smash it all the bits Once per turn in your shooting phase you can pick one train feature and one friendly mega gargant within one inch of it If you do so roll a dice on a two up that train feature is sundered If the train feature to sunder roll a dice for each unit that has any models on or garrison that train feature That's a lot of words there on a two up that unit surface D through mortal winds So what is the issue here? You've gone All right, then all on a two plus a unit surface D through mortal winds Then all models from units that were on or garrisoning that terrain feature Must be set up only within six of that train feature and more than three inches from all any units If a model cannot be set up only within six of that train feature and more than three inches from many units It is slain The train feature is then removed from play finally the mega gargant you picked can make a shooting attack in that phase with the Herald train missile weapon below All right, so what's the issue? Okay, let's construct a scenario. Yeah This is the most problematic rule they've written I'm gonna construct Yeah, or just here probably no, I mean maybe ever Okay, like literally maybe ever um No, that was the pick up your enemy units and move them around this is up there though. This is like a top 10 Yeah, we It isn't roll it isn't my problem. Is it roll the thing to do the thing or roll to roll to roll? No, it's none of that Okay, like you do have to roll a two up to send to the train and then a two up to do mortal wounds and so on and so forth But on the two up you send to the train Okay Tyler, here's the situation. Here's the sit. Here's the sitch You you've you've seen nashkon, right? I'm a big fan. Okay, cool. Yeah Yeah, you got some units some of the best tables in the world a lot a lot of they love their terrain That's the classroom great. You've got a unit on a terrain feature or near it or whatever, right? Okay I rock up to it I tow onto it put the edge of my little base onto that terrain feature Sunder it Roll the two up Okay, your models any models you take some some damage Okay All models from units that were on or garrisoned the train feature must be set up Holy within six of that terrain feature and more than three inches from all in the units Okay, only the models that were on the thing. Let's say you had four on and four off So you reset up your models. What somewhere else? Near your models They have to be set up in coherency of your existing models that weren't that aren't reset up Let's say you had everybody on there you pick up your models You teleport them all the way forward onto an objective on the other side of the train feature Right like I did d3 mortals to you I offer you d3 mortals You get a teleport to anywhere within six inches of this train feature, which could be massive Now remember my mega gargant. He had also towed on to that thing So i'm going to go ahead and now teleport my mega gargant to the other side of your line That uh the normal soon We're on our garrisoning that train fruit. Oh, okay. Uh-huh, huh? Yeah Yep, so my mega that's under the train is now going to jump potentially. I don't know 20 inches across the board In the shooting phase To anywhere I want within six inches of that train feature like I walk up tow in on this side in the shooting phase Smash the thing teleport all the way up here Wait, why are you teleporting then all models? From units that were on or garrisoning that train feature must be set up wholly within six I have walked on to that train feature. I am one of the models on that train feature. It doesn't say enemy models All yeah models I was on so I get to teleport now. I get to reset up my mega gargant anywhere I want Within six inches of that train feature Only within six of that train feature Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, that's the nash call reference. So you're saying like if it's It's a big old piece of terrain. Yeah, you could get that big Yeah, yeah It's still a teleport Let's say it's a five by five inch piece of terrain. I just teleported 11 inches Sure. No. Yeah. Yeah fair last time I checked mega herds don't have a lot of teleports right But hey cool I teleported over to the other side of the train got within six inches of any objective Which is going to be very easy and immediately took it from you because that's what I do Right, right Okay, I see it now. Yeah Interesting. Yeah, let's make it tyler But why stop there tyler? Why not? Why wouldn't I march three mega gargants? up on to the thing Sunder it and then teleport my whole army wherever I want Uh Teleported all the bits love it And then on top of that Okay, now I have to remove the terrain feature This does not fly at tournaments This is why we stopped writing this into rules Because at tournaments people don't want to pull terrain off of the table and potentially have it damaged. Where do you put it? Some some tables run but to but Yeah Where am I setting these terrain features at? Like that's just a logistics problem, but it's annoying. I mean home players you won't care. It's perfectly fine fun rule Sure. Okay And then you get to make a fun shooting attack Yeah, it's a teleport with a shooting attack on the back side by the way I also teleported deep into your lines now with my pretty strong shooting attack So I'm going to go ahead and shoot all your stuff that you thought was buried Right now I'm within 12 of your little heroes. Yeah, get notes here Yeah, that could be a very scary shooting attack Uh, can you all out attack timing wise? I don't think you could all out attack timing wise It's in the shooting phase If you can make a shooting attack in that phase, this is happening in your shooting phase. There you go All right, so yeah, it could be six six attacks threes and threes minus two Scary damage. Yeah, that's gross. Yeah Pretty neat, right? And then my problem with I hate this rule I hate it from top to bottom This is the classic example Of a fun fluffy rule that someone thought of and did not think about the implications to Yeah, totally Yeah, because this is one of those rules that like if I were to explain it to you Like what it does thematically the rules is intended. It's so easy to understand the big giant walks up Smashes the thing knocks everybody off of the terrain Right, like he smashes everybody off the terrain and then the thing is sundered and it's just rubble on the ground now Versa- very similar to this is a flavor win 10 out of 10 But where it meets the rules of the game It it is like all four wheels coming off the car simultaneously while you're doing 100 miles an hour Down the highway while blindfolded in in like driving into oncoming traffic Okay, yeah Because instantly it causes a ton of problems Moving the terrain teleporting your mega-gargants allowing your enemy to teleport right Like everything just goes sideways instantaneously Yeah Yeah, we always talk about they needed they've always And no normal casual player is going to read this just like you didn't and you're not a casual player You didn't read it and think oh, I can teleport my entire son's army every round No Yeah But that's what it says That is what it says. Yeah Tom would have got this They needed to have hired a tom a long time ago to crush their dreams and point out All of the all of the flaws and the horrific consequences that could come about with some of the rules Yeah That's pretty bad, man Like some fun fluffy rules you just can't write because they just don't mechanically work and this is one of them Yeah, you have like grabbed all third rails of the game simultaneously and you're just holding on All right, so we also got wrath the broads The king stop only model that's made a charge move in the same phase can carry out this much rampage This model can make a 3d6 move But it must finish that move within three of any enemy units when it makes a move in this way It can pass cross models train features in the same manners You can fly at the end of the move roll a die speech unit pass across on a two up D3 model wound so it's doing. Yeah, like we talked about earlier. What's stone horns? It's a stone. Stone players are are enjoying right now. So that's that's amazing It is like basically verbatim the stone horn monstrous rampage. Yep. Yeah Couldn't think of a new one. We're just like, yep. Yeah and traditional ogre fashion Ogres do it first and then everyone else deals our stuff I wanted to get hey woe on this show so bad But he's hey was been sick recently. So unfortunately, we're gonna have on the show sometime in the future here As soon as he feels better, but I wanted him here just for this moment I cannot wait for hey woe to read this rule I really like I am so excited for him to read this rule and do a reaction in his pot Like I am legitimately sitting here buzzing. Just thinking about it It's it's everybody steals from the ogres that the journey continues Okay, yeah, okay cool Fun uh Yes Patrick Hudson says most tournament packs use impassable and garisimble terrain You wouldn't be able to teleport using those since you cannot be on those pieces That is correct. Some use like tournament packs often have some number of pieces being impassable or garisimble Yes, yeah, that is correct, but it's never everything right Um, it's like I'm still doing this I can't do I can't believe we're almost through 2023 and we still don't have proper terrain rules in this game All right, let's keep going King broad stomp. What's your other stuff? Uh, by the way broad can take these command traits I'm really excited about this one to play this one honestly because I wanted king broad to be my general That's actually like just what I wanted. I didn't want to play the other ones I was playing the other ones because I had to So, but that was it was so stupid that the actual king of the giants didn't have his own his own thing right Okay, so uh command traits high expectations add one of the attacks characteristic of death grip attacks made by friendly mega gargants While they're within three inches of any other friendly mega gargants. That's cool death grip You only get one attack moving it to two is is fun um Big eater in the combat phase if any enemy models are slain by attacks made by friendly mega gargant holy within 12 This general you can heal up to d3 wounds allocated to that mega gargant after all of its attacks have been resolved Love that that's great Again, it's wonderful. Well, I love in combat healing Um, so that's cool And then loudmouth bully once return the combat phase you can pick one friendly king broad stomp unit holy within 12 This general if you do so until the end of that phase use the top row on that unit's damage table regardless of how many Wounds it suffered and it's fine. I don't you don't you're not generally worried about it. Is my honest answer Should probably go big eater Uh, yeah, I think big eater. It's probably what I take. I think it's good. It's a decent size bubble so Yeah, it's fine Artifacts once again broad can't take these but that's cool Brand of the gargant king if the bearer makes a charge move and the unmodified charge roll was 8 plus the strike first effect applies to them until the end of the turn awesome yeah Lucky shiny hat the bearer has a ward of five up against mortal wounds Awesome only against mortals, which is fine And then crafty creepers at the start of the combat phase you can pick one enemy hero that has an Artifact of power and is the one inch of the bear and will die on five plus that artifact power Can no longer be used pass the first two record though Yep, eight of strike first good stuff Yeah Um and new battle tactics because our existing battle tactics suck They suck These are more compelling. Mm-hmm. I mean that was a low bar son-to-be I'm at battle tactics, but yeah You kill somebody with the hurled terrain thing Just isn't that hard like it's d6 attacks on like as you said probably threes and threes like that's what you're gonna All out attack in the shooting phase Neg 2 d3 plus 3 damage. So not not that out of the path not that not that out of question um king's conquest You complete this battle tactic of a friendly king broad and one other friendly Uh, sorry king broad's stomp unit that got that shouldn't have been sorry everybody. I got a space in there accidentally Are contesting the same objective at the end of this turn and that objective was controlled by your opponent at the start of the turn um, yep cool Very doable. Um, yeah, it's just even like It's crazy that that's just contesting that you don't even have to control You've marched up 45 Control power onto an objective and you didn't take it. What's holding that objective? Sure Um, like okay, but but hey, it's nice. It's even it's even nicer than that Clear them out pick one objective on the battlefield that you do not control You complete this battle tactic if at the end of this turn You control that objective and that objective is contested by a friendly king broad stomp unit Made a charge move this turn again easy as you don't have to kill the unit You just have to have charged and again It's so funny that like two of these are about just standing around on points and not fighting or killing anything Which is exactly what this the army actually does. It doesn't actually kill anything This army does Somewhere rounded down to zero damage in most turns. Um, it just literally wins by standing around So i'm glad they just decided to steer into the you just steer into the skid here like well this army's badly designed Let's keep going And then finally you have a literal impassable grand strat Or sorry impossible grand strat Flat the lands when this battle ends you complete this grand strategy if there are no terrain features on the battlefield Okay, you get five You get five uses of that ability in best case over the course of the game Tyler what is the recommended in the book number of terrain features that should be set up on most battlefields? Believe the answer sir is eight. Correct. Correct So cool I first top of one let me count here. Yes, there are more than five terrain pieces on this board. I fail my grand strat I amazing It's pretty great. All right, that might yeah, that's gonna be up there for for third edition Like I truly love this like this has to be the absolute winner for didn't think it through Lords, okay. Yeah That is amazing Yeah Yeah, Keith Rogers says get your other friend who also plays sob conspire to both take that grand strat Together we can get there guys Keith you gotta snort out of me on that one. That's a good one. That's pretty good. Oh Yeah Okay, cool because that's king brah No comment. That's just Finally chara drawn overlords the one that actually may end up being By the way, I think the king brah at stomp one will actually be pretty competitive Um Just because because giants are pretty competitive because they're good at just standing around and holding points And this actually solves the biggest problem they had which was battle tactics Yeah, yeah, so like I predict their win rate in that will actually tick up a few points Yeah, I've afford for king brah and yeah, there's a lot of a lot of like they're hard to fail easy to control They don't kill anything. They just stand around and control the points. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, and now they can actually get battle tactics, too Right, right Okay, KO KO I love this picture. What is this guy thinking? I think he's thinking I am in trouble Look at how many balloon boys there are back here. Do you see this? All those little bubbles are balloon boys. Those are dudes with chainsaws just coming to do work This guy is dead. He's very dead Okay, yeah, there's there's a list like this that went five over recently just all the engine rigors. There's a yeah, it's a ton of minus two Shots and damaging. Yeah, it's pretty scary. Yeah Okay, anyway, here we go the grunt stock expeditionary force um Yeah, I don't know gareth gareth said existing sons of gits allies is better than the new sons I'm honestly not sure about that. I I Don't know. I really think that I think honestly gareth because the battle tactic thing the new one might be better Battle tactics were such a problem even with and like the little get solved part of your issue But you can still get there at this you really have like three now Like you can you have like those three battle tactics are pretty doable And there are easily two you can do with sons in the bass list So like getting to five is now pretty straightforward anyways Okay In this army, you can only take Units that have to be either a hero that is not unique or that have the grunt stock keyword. So thunders and gun haulers mm-hmm Them's your units Okay Yeah, well and and obviously all your heroes like your admirals and navigators and yeah, yeah Okay, the only yeah, the only mutation is yet not unique. Yeah on the heroes Not unique. Yes. You can't take you can't take moustachio machine gun guy Yeah, brock or whatever his name is Friendly grunt stock expeditionary force units gain the battle line role. That's cool. So all your all your Like everybody's just battle line, I guess Okay I guess even your heroes Uh friendly grunt stock units gained I hit everybody's battle line even your heroes Because it says all units in your army gain the grunt stock expeditionary force keyword So so I guess everybody's bad. We're all about a line now Cool So neat, I guess that's kind of fun I guess all of your like there's plenty of hero battle lines in the game it exists I guess just like every admiral and navigator and Other guys in certain name here. There's I don't remember Uh, they're all just here. They're all just battle line everybody's battle line All right Now let's talk about the thing that's actually got everybody like this has got people living grudge settler protocols Uh In any phase each time a friendly grunt stock expeditionary force unit has shot or fought For the first time in that phase you roll a die On a four up that unit can shoot or fight for a second time in that phase However, they take minus one to hit Designers note this ability can be used in your opponent's turn after a grunt stock expeditionary force unit shoots With the only shell command I would also say in their opponent's turn after you have fought it would also trigger there too So basically 50 of the time it's a straight coin flip You get to shoot twice and fight twice with all of your units Who are thunders and gun haulers Yep, and admirals and navigators and Endring rigor guys or whatever they're called. I don't know whatever those guys are called endring masters. Probably that's probably a thing, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah chemo extension master. Yeah, there it is. There it is. That's another one These things are called okay, and then Uh rapid redeployment each time a friendly grunt stock gun hauler makes a normal move or runs You can say that it will transport a friendly unit if you do so before the move is made Pick one of their friendly grunt stock expeditionary force unit with it with the wounds characteristic of six or less There's then three inches that gun hauler and more than three inches from all enemy units You can pick a unit that has already moved in that phase Remove that unit from the battlefield then when the grunt stock gun hauler finishes this move Set up the transported unit on the battlefield again Holy within three inches of the gun hauler and more than three inches from all enemy units Units transported in this manner cannot make a charge move in the same turn So that's pretty good because you think oh you lost your mobility. You don't have your big boats You don't have your fly around So you can move up to the gun hauler the gun hauler can then take you Somewhere right And then you can redeploy Yeah, yeah Yes, yeah the unit that's gonna. Yeah has to move to it. Okay You know the one care six or less. Yep And then units cannot make a charge move. Okay. Well, you're not so you're 10 thunders Walk up Yeah thing can charge you can can fly forward big distance because remember the gun hauler can like move 18 inches once a game Yeah And then so you could potentially slingshot that unit 21 inches forward That's built into the war scroll the eight the the longer movement. Okay. That's just on the scroll Okay, yeah, I think they still have it on the scroll make sure it has been a hot minute since I played ko But yeah That is pretty good Yep a head full Still there Okay, so yeah, what do you think? We're we're doing this again shooting shooting twice now potentially with Well, your whole force Potentially with your whole force. Yes With everybody all the time just all the time like You charge 10 thunders and they unleash on you and drop this roll like get this roll First of all that the unleash that the second neg one doesn't matter Right for the second shot because they were already neg one can't stack Yeah Um, yeah, I think you're in trouble. Uh-oh you're in trouble Some of the came along is gonna burst your bubble Yeah Yeah, I mean I don't know what to say man. Like It's not I don't care that it's on a four up. Okay. Maybe there's an argument that some competitive player again. I Are we going to see this show up? With a player who was aiming to go 5.0 at a tournament. I is the four up enough to offset Players who are trying to go 5.0 depends not like a lot of risk I don't think this is enough of an offset It's a free thing you get to do on every unit and the mobility of the rapid redeployment covers for it. It's so strong Right Gareth said it's the mobility that makes this broken not the four plus shoot again. I think it's both I just think it's both Because neither of them cost anything Right, like every time the gun hauler moves it can haul somebody along All your gun haulers get to haul somebody So gun hauler one hauls this unit 10 gun hauler two hauls this unit of five got whatever right High pulls this hero pulls this thing Right And then they're all shooting You shoot one and a half times You know mathematically I'm just looking at the battle tactics. I know I'm skipping ahead here But the battle tactics are very doable combined with the ghb. So yeah, they can they have a pathway to five out of five Yeah The path to 28 my dog. Let's get to it. Let's get to the last page Yeah Command traits when a friendly grunt stock expeditionary force unit receives the rally command Return one slain model the unit for each four up instead of each six. Okay, cool. So that's the one you're taking God lovely Or you could take entrenchment expert when this general issues all at defense you're you're Uh until the end of that phase that unit has a ward of five up That's wild Also good Yeah unit that's going to be Oh, are you getting the garrison? So if you hop into Gun hauler Are you counting as being garrisoned in that gun? No gun haulers can't transport people because you don't have the you can't you can't take the the stock You don't have the ability to take your your Magnificent thingamajigies that make it so you can haul people around. All right. All right. It's uh small small favors So you're not getting plus one to save might just want to hit etc from okay All right, but still three up base with a five ward all out of to all at fence. Yeah pretty strong Yep That's not wrong gareth. You're not wrong like you do lose all your normal ko battle traits Like you're you're you don't have any you know your code and all of that's gone right you get none of that stuff So the question is this is worth it. I don't know Um I like I love that you still can take the four plus rally Or get a five up ward I don't know It's pretty strong It's pretty strong You've got a plus nine inches to the range characteristic of your missile weapons used by the bearer as an artifact Which can be interesting on balloon boy hero here Um, but you're probably going to be here at the fire for the the fire slayers malcien icon here Just so you've got your your big blank spells in this In this season Holy been 12. Yeah, you're ignoring Spells and then the spells on a four up Holy been 12 the bearer of the artifact. So yeah, basically malcien icon Uh, but yeah, that one's not bad the gimlet gaze scope. The other one's not that interesting fire rounds battle tactics Destroy during this turn by attack me by Grudge settler protocols battle trait. What was that again? Grudge led that's the extra shots kill somebody with your extra shots Take an objective with your rapid redeployment Right and can test something with two different friendly grind stock Uh Thunder units that you didn't already control Oh pretty doable Yep And then the grant at complete scratch strat at least one friendly grind stock thunder unit At least one friendly grind stock gun holler on the battlefield Cool. I have two units left alive. Don't get absolutely rocked right Yeah, so I mean it Yeah, so that's probably doable if you're winning. It's probably a little more to win more I mean you you could have some control of that potentially Uh, but yeah, like a little unit of fiber that's running with a gun holler And it's just running around trying to stay safe I could see that you know like two by 15 got two by 15 thunderers a little fiber A bunch of gun holler and then figure out figure out your hero as your hero selection Uh starting with standard 35 thunder load out. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, yeah, I got a couple chemist Uh, I mean, yeah, even though Guess right. Yeah, you're losing a lot But that still sounds like a pretty scary list if you're particularly if you're good at rolling four ups And I get it like maybe there's enough offset there with the four ups for the, you know, spiky efficiency 5o oriented players But it's none of that matters to me, right and probably you as well It's just why are we still doing this? This is terrible. Why are we still doing the shoot more thing? Yeah, like it's it's one of those anything that has a potential out is Out of potential major out of bounds impact is You know such a skew potential Yeah, I don't know where this is in japan. That's why I said maybe it's a three quarter I think this and the sun's one are both at least interestingly competitive I do think the sun's one will move up the win rate Of an already pretty strong faction this I don't know Like I think this has the potential to be competitive It certainly has the potential to have some real blowout games I'll say that Exactly, which you don't you don't we don't god knows if we don't need more of that in the environment We've had like you pull everybody forward They all nail the four up and you just like level You just level You're your opponent right Yeah Thunders are not easy to remove. I mean gun haulers are decent Yeah, I have to look at some list, but yeah, you should be able to get a fair amount in there I mean, I know got the thunder has got a much needed point increase Yeah, I'd be curious to see what see some list, but Feels feels pretty viable. It's a big t bd for me on this one So there you go. That's dawn bringers part two. We did it tyler. We got there. Yeah, we did the battle scroll We did dawn bringers a lot of stuff. Hey everybody if you're still watching you're the real hero Thank you so much for sticking with us for darn near four hours. Hope this is all interesting to you uh Hey Guess what if you liked this and all of this discussion around the battle scroll and the Storytime and the new rules then yay, give it a like. It's so easy. It's just clicking a little button Subscribe if you haven't already of course. Don't forget. There's a new merch store down there Uh, we got new stuff including the new uh shirt featuring kathy and the dogs Uh kathy the vampire lady and uh and the dogs Uh, I gotta think we gotta we gotta we gotta I gotta kathy's gotta have like an in-world name right Lady kathryn uh more tark of of uh more tark of fuzz And and her dire wolves. So check that check out the new merch store down there Also, you'll find links to like monument hobbies and element games So if you need to order anything for for there, you can order through both of those places And there's little codes down there that you can save uh money on so check those out If you want to support the show in a bigger way, obviously, we have a patreon here You can focus on review and feedback and taking your next step on your hobby journey You can click into that. We'd love to have you as part of the community As always though, thank you so much for watching tyler. Thank you for sticking with it. I know this was a long one, man I appreciate it 100% man Absolutely for all of you out there. We really appreciate it and uh as always We'll see you next wednesday