 I'm just gonna close the door. Welcome everybody. This is the making of the most grad school cold getting in and beyond round table session. I want to start this a little differently than we've been starting with other things. So if you can appease me with a little warm up, very light. If you want to move, you can. If you don't move, you can stay seated. But if you want to stand up and just like shake out, fingers and toes look like. Smooth your toes and your toes. Your toes and wrist ankles, since you've been sitting off the other direction. Elbows and knees. Your foot. I'm gonna drink it again in your body. And your shoulders, just a whole socket. And if they else die from sitting all the time. Yeah. And go the other direction. And just open your feet out a little bit and then just put your hands on your hips and then go all the way around. And like wake up your hamstrings and your hips and feel how old you are. Okay, and then just wake up your neck just to see. Yes. And then all those other angles in there. Okay, we feel like we're in the night now. Okay, so three university, I have a drama church in the past few years are running this session, Molly, myself, and Luke. But we have some other friends here that are gonna help us like facilitate the conversation and just kind of figure out what we wanna talk about. So I wanna do a quick little intro. So I'm gonna ask us three and our friends to introduce your name, your pronouns. What program you're in and what like kind of your status. And that program is like first year, second year, I just finished, I'm going. And then maybe with where you currently live. So I'm gonna just start from a high old friend, feel real quick. And then our other three folks that are gonna help us facilitate a little bit of doing this, so do you want to start? Sure, Luke Daniel White, I attend University of Iowa in Iowa City, entering my third year. And I use he and his pronouns. Great, Morgan Franco, she prefers, also entered my third year at University of Iowa, currently living in Boston. Not during school here at the time. Molly, can you give us name, pronouns, status, and relationship in school and what program? Yes, hi, Molly, this is Molly, this is not my pronouns, but she prefers. And then you're probably going to teach. So can we have our other folks, Yasmin, if you wanna go? Yeah, my name is Yasmin Nikail, I use she, her, her pronouns. I'm currently based in Chicago, in a month I will be based in Austin, Texas. I am going to their MA, PhD in performance and public practice. She prefers, I just graduated from the University of Arizona with my MFA in generative dramaturgy. And spent like a month and a half and still coming down on the morning. I am currently still in Tucson, Arizona. I work as the artistic coordinator at Arizona Theater Company. And that's what I'm doing for now. I'm Patrick Enne, he and his. I just finished my first year in the MFA, DFA program, the Yale School of Drama. And before that I did my master's at the University of California, Centres. Currently based in that lovely little town in New York. So that's who we are, but we wanna kinda get a feel for who you guys are. So if you don't mind a little bit of like a poll. So you've got these little stickers that are kinda telling us where you're at a little bit. But if you are currently enrolled in a graduate program, can you raise your hands? Well, you're going, right? Yeah. And you just got in and you're going in the fall. Also raise your hand. Great. If you are currently enrolled in possibly also a PhD program, raise your hand. Also, if you're thinking about attending grad school, maybe peripherally, anywhere in your brain, but have not yet attended. If you've already attended a graduate program, raise your hand. If you teach or advise or work in a graduate program, raise your hand. Yeah, that's like right here. And if you are just here to observe and have no affiliation with any graduate thing at all, raise your hand. Oh, yeah. Great. Yeah. Amazing, great. Okay, just curious. Amazing. So before we go into our conversation, we figured you should define what we're talking about when we say making the most of grad school because that is a very big term. So folks that have thought about this a little bit, do you guys have any idea about what that means, maybe just to you or what that means to me? Stick to life. Okay. Yeah, good. Okay, good. Yeah. You're just down on me, yeah. There's no question for you? What do we think we're talking about when we say maybe I guess the most of grad school? Yeah, do you have a thought? So when we're thinking about academic institutions, they're not always set up in the way to totally support students in every capacity. And there is a thought that grad school can be a scam. So when I think about making the most of it, I'm very much coming from the perspective of how is this degree and these letters gonna give me a credibility to not only find my people, but be better with how to articulate my goals and the specific discipline that I'm curious and willing to be a part of as a new, as a student again, and making the most of it, finding the ways to thrive in a program when it's only set up maybe for survival. That's great. Yeah. I love it. Any other thoughts? I think something that I thought a lot about before entering the program and continue to interrogate as I'm in my program is how am I feeding myself, artistically, educationally, every step of the way? How can this program really help me unlock all that I want to in myself and the artists that I collaborate with? Other? Yeah. I had a wonderful little crucible for thinking about making the most and that almost anything for this, I was in California for a week seeing my friends and then the week after that I had a family reunion and then a week to kind of think about this in New York. So I've been doing a lot of talking about the last year of my life, to the people in my life. I would say to me making the most of it, and this might be a little bit of an ambivalent answer, is having the flexibility to change your expectations and kind of just live in the moment, especially I think even the first day we started at the School of Drama there, there was kind of like the claim that you are the future of the American theater. And that kind of position of the future is like, I'm gonna meet my lifetime collaborators here, I'm gonna meet all these things and the person I was when I presented my application that you accepted me is like the person that I'm going to be, except better for you. Expectations change, you change, you learn things, you fail, you grow and be willing to accept that change in expectations and then shift and then you know, you might shockingly have different interests even just a year and six months and a month and you might be a completely different person and be willing to accept that new version of you and try to think of the most way you can be that person is really one different. I would say just coming off of grad school I feel like the three years were a very selfish time, like pretty much everything is about you and people like throw money at you sometimes to do more of you stuff and it's really exciting and I would say just kind of lean into that as much as possible and soak up everything whether that's knowledge, contacts, experience, money, any of that, because it really is about you and if you at any point feel like it's not, that's when something needs to change I would say. Do you have anything you're thinking about? Yeah, sort of jumping, I missed the first few so I apologize if I repeat anything that's already said but jumping off of soaking it up, the thing I would say that I learned in my three years is to really take advantage of every thing that you can in the security of that institution and that means taking advantage of things that are sort of like right in your path but also looking for mentorship and collaboration with faculty and other students who aren't necessarily in your program and to find those meaningful relationships that aren't sort of slapdash right in front of you on your first day and also to take advantage of the ability to create outside of the educational institution and to do your own sort of projects with those collaborators or to sort of step away from those systems every once in a while like Luke said to be yourself artistically if you need to break away occasionally you should feel free to do that. I think just listening to all your guests as well I think my thing around making the most of it is a question that we had in our little Google like questions is just like how do you make it worth it like or just like kind of what you said yes sort of like survival, like it's intense so like how do you actually make it worth the time, stress, money, yeah, sacrifices and what you gain, how do you calibrate all of that so I think that's kind of where we want to base a lot of our conversations today if you're on the precipice of thinking about going to grad school maybe this will inform that conversation. Does that have to be a precipice? For those of us that are in it or on the back side of it is like what do we have that we can possibly share to help those folks or in our own institutions what are our challenges that we maybe aren't making the most of or our resources? Any other definitions that you guys are thinking of and when you think of that like making the most that you haven't heard, it doesn't have to be if it's a specific question, we'll definitely go there but if it's just another thing you pick popcorn up for you, let's shoot the head. So we're hoping to curate three different conversations today, working in small groups and so the first thing that I'd like for everybody to do is to form small groups where there is at least one of every color in that group and let's try not to have too many greens in one group or too many yellows or too many reds in one group so that we're sort of spreading that experience across the room a little equally and we're gonna talk about the before and the during so looking at what are my questions about applying to grad school and then what do I need to focus on what are my questions about, okay great, I'm in grad school, now what do I do? So we can move the chairs around, let's look at what groups of four or five can I talk about? Yeah it seems like there's like four folks that have done it and four folks that are in so maybe we should try to aim for four groups. Okay, yes. Great. Great, cool. So I'm a person that's Yellow. Yellow. We should not be yellow. That's the one red, can't be yellow. Okay, okay, our green. We can't be yellow, so we do that. Yeah, yeah. So we can choose. All right, you guys, you can go now. I feel like you see a little. If there feels like there's a lot of greens in a group, there are some greens over here. Back and forth. Over here, you can kind of listen. I'm gonna slide this across here. Yeah. Thank you. Cool. Yeah, thank you. It's fine. So, I guess we have about 10 minutes or so to kind of talk about before hand and during. Is there any burning question that you want to speak about that happens to happen in your school? That you have. So, I've kind of a weird background. I've been looking at the paralegal for past two years. My BA is in Indromatergy. I was double English in Indromatergy. And then I worked like an internship for about a year and a half right after grad school. And then I totally different. So, I guess my concern is like the steps I need to take to bolster my application going forward. I know what I have to offer and even though my resume may be a little bit stale, I want to figure out how to struggle with that with what I know that I know. Yeah. Are you guys thinking about that stuff too, about your resumes as there's some prepping? Yeah, a lot of, I find my questions have been about this. A lot of my questions are coming from my own life, research, school, current types of programs. So, that's my point. I'm a little out of tune with my program. You guys work with what I did to get a speech writing interplay. I think that would be helpful. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm a director of graduate studies at the University of St. Louis. Before that, I would turn the volume up a little bit. I guess I found your part. Pass it to me too. Yes. You also went to Burton? Yeah. I was like, who went to Burton? Yeah. There is one letter I made. Okay, great. Oh. Oh. Sorry. Katie. Olivia. Morgan. Nice to meet you guys. So, I get a lot of students who apply from very broadband. Especially recently, we get a lot of international students, which is great. But a lot of international students are in a situation where they have not been able to pursue a website because of their living or whatever, and so they're doing something else like mechanical engineering. So the question is, when I am evaluating an application, I'm basically looking for three things. Okay, number one, you should write this down. This is the key to it right here. Number one, can they do the work? So I know what the curriculum is. I know what's going to be required of a person to do it. And first, my first question is, can you do the work? Second question is, will they follow through? Will they finish what they start? I have a lot of third questions. Are they like any kind of graduate experience? Because I'm going to invest a considerable amount of time, resources and personal energy into the cultivation of this person. So are they going to be asked, right? Of course, if I'm going to say that, it's going to be complicated. But I generated my own so... Next question. So you're apparently going to go, okay, I'm not interested in your work, except insofar as it answers one of those three questions. So one of the things you can talk about is, yeah, I've been working in a very high stress environment for a long time, I'm really good at getting things done. Some of it too, right? Okay, that's evidence that you can finish when you start. But apart from that, what I really want to know is, what do you want to do as a dramaturg, or whatever it is you're going into? What do you want to do with it? And do you have a background that justifies it? Yeah, it's just like, I'm going to make it all right for you. There's part of that for you, right? So the clearer you are about what it is that you want, the better. So one of the things that I always advise people, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, is that if you find something that you don't want to work with, like somebody wrote a blank that you're really interested in, you want to find out where they're teaching you, and then do they have a program? And if they do, what kind of program do you want to work with? One of the things you can find out in here is, hey, if somebody wrote to me and said, yeah, I've read your book and you've made a few students in my life, I'm going to be like, oh, really? I'm flattered. Okay, so what do you, now you can't bullshit your president, because if you do, all of them are immediately seeing it. But if it's genuinely, I'm going to be like, oh, okay, cool, I can help you, right? Like, I can find a way that really financially works. So that's what I want to know, right? So, yeah. We have one quick thing about, if you're thinking you're listening, it kind of appears kind of bizarre to people you're applying to. So I worked in finance around about theater company before I went to grad school for drama training. For a lot of people that I knew, that was like not confusing in their brain, so I had spent a lot of time figuring out a narrative of what that meant for me. And for everything I do, my dramaturgy is like umbrella. So I was like, okay, so what's the umbrella that connects finance and dramaturgy? And I was like, actually, it's curiosity, and it's panic. And like, I love an Excel book that tells me something, and I love an Excel book that tells me something else. Like, so that can be a scene chart or it can be like sales. So I mean, I just had to spend some time figuring out why people were confused about what they weren't necessarily seeing. And I did find some people to do a lot of dramaturgy, just before I applied. Time, and I was exhausted because I worked before time and freelancing, but it was what I did to kind of bolster a little if you're worried about standing. But I had to figure out the narrative of what's the connection, and they nappled me because I'm nodding, but I didn't know what to do to figure it out. And I had that prepared for what I went in for interviews, because they didn't want to know what that relationship is. How can you feel satisfied over here, and feel like you're this way? Yeah, that's a small thing. Absolutely, yeah, it's absolutely right. So it's all automatically done. You've done dramaturgy specifically for 10 years. That's all automatically done. But it's better if you have done some. Right, and if you could also come to the third question, that's where your letters of recognition come in. So, you know, I recently had somebody apply to our program and they let out recommendations from the supervisor at Starbucks. And I was like, that's very little value to me, unless they're really addressing these issues that stick in them. So, if you have some of you working on speaking to the... Yeah, I mean, it seems like Katherine has been out of the game for a long time, but her dramaturgy mission is pretty sharp and she didn't visit this one. That's something. They're important than anything. Well, I'm just talking to Katherine about her work as an audience, and how dramaturgy is grounded, how it's a way of talking to people, and only the people who listen to the people who are selling tickets are saying they would learn a lot. So, yeah. Yeah, I felt like that's what I wanted to tell people. Do you know what dramaturgy is? Exactly what we're doing as we're looking at this stuff and making decision-dressing questions. Do you want to talk about programs? Is that what you're saying? Just like, how do you pick a program? Do you mean degrees? Or like, kind of both? The way the program is styled, I found through my studies, please, that I much prefer doing physical work rather than theoretical and academia. It sucks my soul to write a book so that I know there's no physical creation in sort of where it comes from. What is it about? So, generally, you want to write a book as a question, isn't it? Is it a demand? Is it generally designed to be a theater? Do you want to launch another film in our administration? Or is it a PhD? Is there a lot of information? Like, I took that over there. Maybe we'll not do that. But that is not necessary or what I'm going to do. So, you know, I'm going to put this up on, and it's really great. And then, in the second one, define, like I said, someone who can work here. That's where you're going to be. And how long have you been out with undergrad? So, I would also spend some time in that practical outside as well. Just like, as you finish, can I find a place where I can do that? Like, grad school levels, practical works without. So, I would say my part of Iowa has kind of an extreme focus on this group. I do it. It's kind of why I went there. Practical. Like, I'm in the rehearsal room every day. So, like, there are certain programs that help make it very public. How much of the practice rehearsal room is there that they do? And I was one of those. But I also will say, I spent me three years outside and was doing a little bit, and I actually did want to go back for some academic rigor. So, that was part of my direction to go back. Can you imagine how it's at least that. I can't do that. All right. I was also speaking to kind of a seeing where it was personal. How did you create, like, actually my personal application that was really a big part of it. We're probably getting close to the end of this thing, and the small things. It's okay if there's like three more. We're going to, like, film Robin this thing. So, if you want to ask this different person that same question, you can. We just figured it would be an easier way to get other people. Is there any questions? So, these are kind of before and during questions that you guys have been thinking about. I can offer one. Oh. I'm curious. I don't know. It's something you kind of bring up. It's something you want to learn from. But it's something that you're just about to learn. It's like trying to find an advisor that works for you. Or just, like, just finding people that can give you advice. That's just, like, your academic advisor. I don't know if you guys have thought about that at all. Advising questions. No, I graduated from Skidmore College. I'm super small. I'm going to enter into a program at UChicago to a much, much larger school. And I'm kind of terrified. Trying to find and seek out an advisor on my own. Having not taken classes or spent four years with people in the program. Yeah. Can I ask you what drew you? What drew you to that program? They accepted me. Oh, yes. But also, so I Yeah. No, so I studied English and Peter throughout and I wanted to go to a school where I continued to do both of those things in two different departments and continued to kind of mold them to me. And I looked at Columbia's Ph.D. Peter program, which was great and I loved that. But I also wanted something that wasn't a six-year commitment at this time in my life. And UChicago is a place I could do it. It matches the humanities, so it spans all of their humanities departments. And you can kind of pick and choose and so I love that. I'm really excited about it. When do you start? September 15th. I would be curious if they're on our LNDA, I don't know if you guys have gone on the air table. Hopefully on that LNDA's website it has all those filters. I'd be curious to see what types of programs are kind of organing. Those official ones that are on. I found a few good PhDs. So I applied to a PhD and they bummed me down to a great point where I should have been to begin with. But yeah, I would be curious. You should go take a look. I was running around on that the other day and I was looking because I know they updated it last year and there were so many programs. I was like, oh my gosh. It's like you're off the air. I love to go. I've been right before and I've been on it because Meagan has done some work on it. He wanted me to like office. He wanted me to explore it. I would talk about doing this because I think there's even more. Meagan called me up and she said, how am I doing this? So I'm doing it. So that's my thing. I was like 70 years old. So many. And I was also so surprised at how many programs had drop 30 coursework even if it wasn't that official. Because I also think that was my undergraduate for any drop 30 coursework. So it's also something to be sure of as you come out and undergrad and actually focus as well. So this is the majority of my formal education programs which I don't know but that's everybody's experience but I'm going to think about it. It's only been since 2004-2005 but there are a lot of undergrad students here. That's a great. Where are you from? I'm from Iowa. We only have three graduate students but next year when Luke and I graduate, they have two. So that would be good. But I guess I'll just say something about Iowa. I found that that program is working really well for me. I want to see weekly development. I want to be a member of the playwright's workshop there. We are kind of inextricable from that. It's hard for us. It sounds scary. I think maybe not from Chicago. But it was an update change but I found that the mix of academics and the mix of practical who was there, I got lucky looking at the cohorts so I think that it's kind of a week. So as you do look I guess it's kind of an advice of that little week. I just want to respond to what you said about mentorship. I love mentoring students. I love mentoring students. I love it. It's why I'm looking at a professor. I love looking at young people. It makes me young. I'm busy. I'm so busy. And I grew up in a big state school. So when I was a part of the Mellon we had like 20 students and I got to know them very, very well. And if they didn't hand it in the summer I would go chase them down. Why do you hand it in the summer? I can't do that anymore. You come to me. I've been with Rebecca since. And so that's what I'm saying about when you're going into Chicano you find somebody who you like and you want to work with you go get it and bug them. Be polite about it. I'm so sorry to bug you but I'm bugging you. And you said we could have a chance to talk about this and I was just wondering if that happened. That's your first test. You break through that barrier and then as soon as people get to know you they'll be like, I've got to help this person. Same thing. It's funny because different programs seem to have like different levels and I don't like to use this phrase but I can't hold it. It's not one of those. So you've got to advocate for yourself and for your feedback and for responsiveness. Because it's supposed to be a professional training. And as a professional you have to go after what you want. People just don't like to do that. I'm going to talk for a while. If you guys have any questions. Oh, she's about to switch. I thought you were. Can you do that? Okay. Everybody, can you round out that question and then we're going to like musical chairs to another group where you can either ask similar questions or you can start a new conversation. We're going to try and keep the same sort of spread of color in each group so we're not going to conglomerate yet but we're going to switch it up so you're speaking to new people and if you were talking about sort of the before and getting into the during of grad school, let's switch to the sort of during and maybe the after of grad school. So if you want to say where you are you can do that but for the most part let's change these circles. You want to switch? Lou, come over here. Sorry, I'm going that way. Okay. It's one part of your I'm kind of I've been in a bit of both state recently. I just went abroad this past semester so I haven't had academic education really for six months but yeah I definitely want to get back to the fall. Nice to meet you. Hi. Do you guys think we're at the New York Bridge today? Yeah, I'd love to know. Thank you. So what is yellow that you say to graduate? You're in and ready to finish. You're back. We kind of moved over here to do more photogenic today. We go with that. Oh yes, full session. You're Alex. Yes. We also did ages and just like where you are in terms of grad school. I'm Alex. We're like a team or I'm an AON to my school. We're sort of thinking about grad school but I'm not a big fan. I'm Kerry, she prefers. I'm based in Chicago. I'm very much in grad school and whether I would want to attend or not and to be so happy. I'm Courtney, she or hers. I'm also based in New York. I'm currently looking at applying for grad school starting fall 2020. I am a little kind of lost in that well, A, I finished undergrad in 2011 so it's been a while and B, I got my B, A in theater and I'm looking for an MFA in reading or writing so I'm kind of wondering how to navigate that considering that's not a big deal. I'm I'm a graduate graduate graduate graduate graduate And we're trying to do the whole thing. Just let me think about it. What's your name? My name is Yami Shiget. She is hers. I'm 23 years old. I'm a young lady in the community. I'm from Bremen, Washington, Alabama. I'm moving to the boys' lives. It's a big move. It's a big move. One of the solid pillars. It's a big move. I'm trying to stay excited about it. It's a big move. I think a lot to talk about is the Wednesday. I definitely feel very, like, for three years and so forth. It's a great school. It's figuring out what you do and when you do it. It gives you passion and passion. It's a great place to be. It's a great place to be. It's a great place to be. It's a great place to be. It's a great place. It's a perfect station. It's a great place. It's a great place. It's a great place. I do want to go here. It's a great place to go. It's a great place. We're having fun here in People's College. And let's see who cheers here. Who's the winner. And then the second year had time where it's not going to happen. It was really cool. It was really cool. It was like, how have you felt about it in the beginning, like the year behind it? So, like, good enough to actually get into most of the programs. And a little bit of the insecurity of getting so young and not really being ready or going to walk us into that program. But it was absolutely being accepted. I'm visiting you, so it's like, damn, you probably should have done the MFA. I don't think that's really a path to that. So maybe it's just kind of like, forged. No one would know themselves as being empowered to, like, sort you know, manage some kinds of sports. Like, I don't know. So, for MFA, for MFA, there were some students that started at MFA and then stayed for a year. I didn't realize that that was a good pattern. And something I could have known probably was more proactive than other students. So, I think it's been a lot of things. Like, I think that what does the community only fund it? Oh, it's not only funded by the association. That's different. So there's crisis that I'm not afraid to speak with. Things that you don't think are proactive about, like, knowing the thing, like, there's a lot of people who go into the county. I would say that there are... I'm a big fan of education for education's sake in that, like, I am a big fan of thinking that we should stop thinking, like, degrees at least to a job. In that, like, you know, right? Yeah. So, like, in that regard, but in that regard, when it comes to application time, I think the feeling I get is that the tone people want to read is, like, I have this exact idea of what I want to do over here wise, and this is the degree that will help me get there. And, yeah, so am I wrong in that? Like, do they want me to be definitely very goal-oriented? Um, okay, so... No, yes, yes, please. So when I'm reading this, there's three questions. Now, one, does this person have the chance to get into curriculum that I know is right for him? Right. Number two, if I accept them, will they follow through on what they have promised to do? Will they really, if they're going to commit to this program or they need to walk me through it? Because if they drop out, I have to go through it. That's a huge place to have resources and time, right? Plus, it takes a slight interest in that as well. And number three, are they an asset? What I need from your application is to be able to determine if the answer is correct. Are there three questions in my mind? Yes, yes, no. Yes, yes, no. So, um, no, seriously. I'm telling you, absolutely true. So, um, so, but one thing I want to say in response to what you just said, is that this is, yeah, it's not your job to decide whether you're blue for a particular program. Okay, so when you're thinking about, oh, she's talking about that, she's talking about that, she's talking about that, what you should do is go, God damn it, I want this, this is what I want, I'm gonna get it, I'm awesome. But it's my job to figure out if you want it, right? It's my responsibility. So don't take on that job for me, because I'm getting paid for it, right? You just apply for what you want. You just have to grab it and focus on that. Don't undercount yourself, right? So a lot of, like, this session is, like, hard times for us, and it does get so weird when I watch it. And I think coming to this background of, like, how people work so hard in these spaces, where there aren't as many rooms in here, there's just no, like, except this little, like, one reason why we know that other people are trying to just do straight-edge things is to get, like, the right spaces. And so, you know, that has to do with how you want me to try to navigate what that is and also be early on, whatever the case, right? So a lot of, like, see people doing themselves, I've lost everything to myself in there, so you do keep it, and you know that I'm adamant that's your job. See, whatever it is. And I think, as a person, sometimes passing person to color, sometimes not knowing job capability and money is something that she can motivate me as a company, as a person. So, like, I already know what it has to do with biases, that money both makes physicality both makes me. So even if being an agile, this is real stable, it's still better than freelancing, you've got this job, so it's going to be a full-time job, and that's all that's going to happen. I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, I've been learning a lot about this, it's been a place for me to really try and get a job, and be like, I'm pretty tough on this man. I'm not like... I'm probably a lot weaker than I used to be, I'm really, I'm a little weaker than you, I'm a little weaker than I used to be. And if you're a parent, but you're a parent or someone who you don't know, about what we actually have to do with that. Talking about the program that let me in, of course they had two MAs, two MAs and two CHPs that I visited, and I accepted. Like, those were the best three MAs. But now, I think that's what I should be proud of. If I don't have to do something to serve, five MAs, like one MAs, just one MAs, this tells me that with treatment, undergraduate tuition, where they're usually taking their money, they need another batch to get them to know that it was to your undergraduate students that recoup everything that you needed who no longer have space. Don't do it, don't do it. You're going to stop. That's why you called this. That is all about undergraduate- She really meant it. She really meant it. You just killed it. That's a question. I did not. I was really not scared of that. Yeah, just basically like when and when applying, If I'm someone who, um, I'm still making questions and decisions about a career, like I want to know, yeah. Exactly. So what I want to know is, are you going to follow through, right? Are you going to communicate that to me in a variety of different ways? So you can say, you can say, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do it, and they get it now. And I'm like, wow, they are motivated. Although if you're wrong, that's going to be where it comes, right? I am going to study Barney the dinosaur because I want to be a dinosaur. And she's like, oh, no. No. But if you would say, if you want to say, I am a proponent of knowledge, that's what I'm saying. I am on a path towards self-actualization. I'm so lucky that I have that. And you people are the ones I want to do it with because you're awesome. And I'm glad you're working. I'm excited about the things that you're doing there and that's what I want to be. Does that mean that this makes a pass for you? The questions that we're trying to answer is really important. Okay. That's really important. Someone who's like a specific CEA that has been out there. But even for me, as someone who's super interdisciplinary, I would talk to you about what are the methodologies that I bring to you that you may don't have and how I'm going to pass it. And how I might push your program. That's important. It's like feeling together. I think that's still very rarely. And it's great to get that. You can say, oh, I noticed that you guys might be trying to build a little bit better in the future. Speaking from my own experience, from my own point of view, I think I have a three-page statement for best. And I would say 95% of that is probably my experience. It's specifically how my interest would be. And I would say that 95% of that is my vision of what I might do. That's a good question. Yeah, that's another question. I have an idea. You don't know I'm not about the field. I don't know what you're doing. I want to teach you. But we actually have a big space for that. When I play for my team, she's like, I'm going to write about the field. I'm like, great, like three months old. I'm never going to write about that. And then she's like, you should write about that. There's lots of people that go, I'm very cool. I'm very cool. But tell it in a way that creates a better and a better fact that makes us feel like you're worth the investment. I'm very cool. I'm very happy. I'm very happy. I'm very happy. I'm very happy. We are going to switch over to the group. We're going to switch over to the group. We're going to switch over to the group. Don't do that there. Don't do that there. Don't do that there. Don't do that there. Don't do that there. You know, you ask, when's the right time? When should you do it? Let me say that of all the people that I've learned can be graduate school, and I'm very happy to be here. I'm very happy to be here. I'm really happy. I'm really happy. Hello. So thank your people in your current group. We're going to switch over to the group. Contrary to what I just told this group, we are going to again maintain different colors in these groups. So find people ideally that you've not yet sat in a circle way. Michael, let's get together and let's get together. Who is this people? This is Presley. Thank you. Yes, Jordan. From New Chicago? Yes, live in Chicago. And where are you from? Uh, Charleston, North Carolina. Where? Wait for us. Oh yeah. Where are you from? I'm from Florida. I'm from Florida. I'm from Florida. I went to graduate school. I'm from Florida. I'm from Florida. I'm from Florida. When do you like to do it? I am Patrick Denny, the Yosuke Brawler kind of proud alumni of Eastie Santa Cruz, twice. So this is a little bit of a knowledge overlap, but I think hopefully a fruitful knowledge overlap. Yeah, if I say something that's bullshit, you can say that's bullshit. Hey, what? Well, where are we sort of getting in, looking at program questions? Do we still have more questions? What are the things that you're still burning to know, even if it's still... No one asked my question about this specific program, are you? Well, I mean, I typically say this at every group that I've been just wanting to have another answer. I am still my undergrad, and in the fall I'm hoping to apply to PhD programs because that's my end goal. I want to be a college professor and have a PhD and work as a scholar. Is there any need, or is there any recommendation for there to be like a little bit of a break in between there to do an MA? Or is it valuable to go straight into a PhD program? I think the question is, it depends on what you think, but many PhD programs require an MA. However, many PhD programs also provide it. So if you can go into a PhD program, you can enter into your PhD program, and the first year of it, you're sure what you get out of that. It's actually a pretty cool thing because then if you discover that you can't say I'm a student, you can take your MA and go somewhere else. In other words, don't worry about it. If you find a PhD program that you like, it's fun. And they'll let you know, right? Well, I'm sure we can't be a little better than that. But, you know, I'm trying to build a PhD program right now, but he hasn't done it already. And we're going to use that in MA, you can apply to the MA, always apply to the PhD, and you don't have an MA. Of course. Where are other folks in there, kind of like, processing to do like that, so just kind of such things, not really well? I am also in my undergraduate at a friend's college, so I'm going to give you a different social change. I'm at this conference just to kind of, like, get my feelers out about where I go best, what direction I could go in for an MA, so I'm more or less concerned with like, the process of finding a detailed program and like, how do I apply for that? Rather than jumping in my PhD? That's so cool. You know you want to be a professor. That's amazing. That's amazing. Awesome. So I would say, I want to be a, and specifically, especially me, keep that record of all the, all the programs in America, and I'll put them in the social media, social media, the MA to kind of say, searchable database, and so check it out. That's part of what you think we're all ready to do. I think it's actually, I know it's going to be, totally. And I can say, I definitely do. I'm posting updates. I want to just get a message. And set up a channel, set the program. So it's actually good to have you here. And then the other thing that I'm really excited about is finding someone who's working with you. Just for your kids, right, George? Find someone who's working with you. And the thing you don't want to do, find out where they're at, and then see if they've got it, progress. And they went to school as well, because they changed the style that you're super interested in. Exactly. I can teach them. Yeah, that's right. And sometimes you can write your petting. I don't know, it's like you. Where did you go to school? They weren't home for you. Especially if you don't have compliments. I heard writing a letter is always better than like email or whatever. I can't remember where I heard that, but like, and writing a letter. I think I've said this a couple of different places. That is a way of like demonstrating different. I think a lot of like, showing that you're serious in front of you, the ways that you can demonstrate that effort and demonstrate your commitment to getting your degree or doing this work. And perhaps writing a letter by hand shows I am taking the time to open my pen, put it to paper, put it in a model, go to the post office and come back. That's an investment. I don't really know who you are. I saw your name on this website. What do you work for? I was going to say, do you get a lot of those emails? A lot. I'm like, am I serious? Here's where you can find them. It's on the website. That's right. I don't think you can figure out where you want to live and then look at the university. It's there. And see what kind of program you're in. So every university that has a credit program, every university that she has, they want me to run that program. And every university has a lot of college events. And that's what I asked her to do. Students, you know, I don't, you know, I just take some courses. That's fun. You can go like, could I pass for some questions? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And so I said to the last student that I want to say, they're in a bad college. Yes, me was saying, she hesitated to apply to an effective college, because she's very young, but she thought she should handle it and overblock it. So right now, I'm feeling like my first kind of sound is going to be on the website. That's a little fast idea. That's what to me. I'm getting paid to do it. So you write to me and you go, I am so awesome, I'm going to be such an SXG program, and I'm going to fight for more than I do, and I'm going to be awesome. And then it's a convene to decide whether you're going to ask for it, right? Don't re-select yourself out here, ever, for anything. It's not your job. Don't get what you want. Don't reach for it, you know? If you don't deserve it, it's not your job. And just say no to drugs as well. And say no to drugs as well. Or, this is not my job, of course it's not my job. What are some other questions that are just simmering, right? Are they having other groups that would like to challenge or share with us? So there are ways to do it. Laura, you haven't said anything. I'm kind of new and recent to the dramaturge game. I've been working as the dramaturge for a few positions. I'm a team that likes to go to grad school and do a lot of things. Are you all in the same grade? Yes, I'm in the same grade. But of course you don't have to go to grad school to come and ask. You can just do two positions, which is how I learned that. Because there weren't a program until I was there. And I started learning how to learn what you did at that time. And so you don't have to go to school to do it. It helps that. Because first of all you get Netflix, you get mentorship, and they're saying get out of the period of time and do it like this. You still have to fight it. Look at me wrong. I walk in the park all the time. There's no way to take the college. But you get a lot out of it. You get this intense study every time. You can't. And because it's a space of learning, it's also a space for people to think about. And then I get everything. I put a support system. I have people whose job it is to be one of my students. I'm just like, oh, my last entry. Because if you ever knew, everything you do in it. The whole premise of a relationship is that we know how to do something. And you're outside of it. As far as my portfolio. So, you know, if you go to graduate school, like, tell them something last year. Take your time. Decide what it is you want to go to. But if you decide to go, go like hell. And charge into it. And go, I demand to suck all the juice out of this. Because if you don't do that, if you go in there ready to be disciplined. And like, how do we know I'm here? Why am I wasting my time with this? Why am I doing this? What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, I always loved it. I loved it. And it's because I love the challenge. I love the challenge. I love people. I love people who work with crazy people. Crazy people. It wasn't because I was smart or talented. It was because I was strict. Because there were smarter, more talented people than me in the program. They didn't know what it was. The career's there. And then he's like, what's your question? Signature? I'm not going to go over this. And this is awesome. Either a gap here or taking that. I should have gotten it through it. I did the BADESS too. I really did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I did. I know specifically for me I'm in a dramaturgical program, but I'm very eager to try getting rid of some of the dramaturgical fantasies that I don't really tell you in my career. My program is very new play and practitioner-focused, and my brain, how it works, is more scholarly. I'm a translator, I'm interested in classic works, all of this stuff, and I just need to escape from focusing on with playwrights. I think it's a valuable skill, but I think specifically for me it's really trying to go to another academic institution to find ways that I can let go of those tenancies and accept some new tenancies. I will. I feel like I did go right into the Santa Cruz MA program there, but it feels like very much when I did the program, it was still in the phase where I was almost thought within the culture department as a glorified fifth year, and the majority of our students were people that were coming. We had wonderful students coming that worked from the program, but the majority of the students were just students from Santa Cruz that went on and did this. It was a great year, not too close, but I do have X, still have good funding. They have great funding. I just will take all our students. All funded, and it brought me a wonderful space to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, and then in between finishing my MA, I had two years of my life. It was one year that turned into two years, but it was really productive two years. My first year, I was definitely high on my high horse. I was very cocky. I was very... And I did. And that was a rough two months. April, May... If we can say April, May, June 2018. You know, 2017 is not a great place for me. Michael can attest to that. But then, you know, I got a point. So, anything time can be a really important thing. And time doing, you know... I make coffee for two years. I absolutely do. There are ways to... Well, Pat says we make coffee for two years. He was also working as a dramaturge and working under Philip Pepelli, and in San Francisco. It's a theater outreach to underserved communities and stuff like that. So it's like, he wasn't just playing video games. You know, he was working towards his goals, and making contacts, and continuing to impress, not just me, but the other people. So that, you know, somebody would call it to me and say, like, do you have anybody that's familiar with these things? I don't need a case, right? Actually, you've changed, folks. So we're going to wrap up and kind of come into a big circle, finish your thoughts. Yeah, absolutely. More killing. About a God of War, with classics in. So it sounds like we had a bunch of robust conversations, and everyone got to hear a variety of perspectives. I just kind of want to first ask, what's something, maybe that's like really struck you about a conversation that you had, something, a bit of advice or something that you heard for the first time that just like you really needed to hear today, and maybe just share that with the group briefly. Yeah. Just like a bit of what Michael said to me in that like, I was talking about like, ugh, I'm afraid in applications if I don't have a specific idea of what I want to do for my career, that they won't think I'm motivated. And Michael was like, you can tell them you're on a journey of self-actualization, and you're into knowledge of knowledge, like you can be truthful, you just need to find a way to communicate that you're also willing to put in the work and make the commitment. And I was like, oh, thank God, because I didn't want to have to lie through my teeth. So that was good to know. Starting a relationship like that with a lie is not a good idea. Yeah. Because it will come out. Yeah. Yeah, please. Hearing that the GRE isn't something that determines your condition. It's like a burden off my shoulders. Others. Try to do well. Other things that just were particularly useful that you want to share to the group. Yeah. I asked you a question about personal statements and how to structure that and tell your personal story. And Shelley offered a sort of formula that I could break down and use. But it was like, talk about your philosophy and what flexibility is inside of that. But something that you're interested in using an example and choosing if that's probably the strongest thing. But then just how are you compatible and what your next steps are. And I think that that was just really enlightening to have that and then to think about if I'm looking at a place like these are the things that I want to match up in different ways. I've read a few. I want to also give an opportunity if anyone has a question that you didn't get to ask in a small group that's still on your brain or a question that you've already asked that you just want to pose to the group as a whole. We'd love to hear those now. We'll cover that. Great. Yeah, yeah. So I came here because I wanted to hear what people are concerned about. As an administrator we have programs that we try to build on the ones. So I'd like to know like, and this has been really helpful just listening to people's questions. What do you wish was different about the process of applying to grad school and approaching grad school and getting through grad school? That would be interesting to hear, right, Shelley? No question. Can I offer something from my current student to have that as watch? A process of people getting accepted into a program? I think a larger focus on different perspectives with folks that are currently in the program in mind like looking at who we have and being like who do we not have and just like acknowledgement of hearing the current students on that. Whether or not it's achievable, I mean, I'm specifically talking to Iowa. Iowa is a hard place to have necessarily people who want to move to. But I mean, okay. This is my one. We love it. But just like acknowledgement of hearing us. Here's who we crave to work with in our program. You want us to be more responsive to you? I guess. If you ask us who we think would be great additions or maybe even ask that question to your students. We have application fee. Unfortunately, we have no control. SCSU has control, but I wonder if there's a way. Maybe that's a good question for the grad affairs because it's like, on that side of it, I had no control over how much it is, whether I can weigh it, but usually I see that it's weighed quite a bit, so I don't know that process though. So this is a good thing to know, right? So you asked me that, but you can ask the grad division specifically to weigh your application fee. And you'll have to come up with a reason why that they should do that. But that isn't, that absolutely isn't something. We want to give away all of our, we want to give away all of our knowledge for free. That's what we want. We want to be paid, but we don't want you to pay. You know? And I wouldn't run a grad program if I couldn't do full funding for all my students, right? I'm lucky. And accountability and the responsibility. Like kudos to folks that are on the ground of being like, no, don't, no, you can't. It needs to be funded. And there's people sitting up for that. You don't need more of that. Right. I mean, if you can't pay for grad school, that's great. Nobody should. Nobody should. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Well, we'll like Elizabeth Warren. Yeah. When it comes to accessibility of information, like, you know, in during beginning and during the applications process. And this varies from program to program. Some programs are really on it. They're very warm and inviting and shoot out materials. But what a common experience is what I'm sort of running into is, for instance, you go to websites and there's outdated information. Like, a lot of them have been programs about, like, I saw a 2018, like, open house day. And I was like, guys, like, so it's like, in that, like, I need to know, like, a graduate school is, like, actively looking for their next graduate students and that they are pushing out information and they can't wait to update. So, and again, that's specific criticism towards specific schools. Some are really on top of it, but a lot of them aren't. I can speak, you know, for our program, we have a terrible, terrific staff who do that work. And it is a big problem. But is it an indicator of the fact that we are not on the ball? Yes! So, you know, so if you notice something like that, then you can expect that school, and I'm speaking from my own school here, to have those guys' problems all the way through. Right. And yeah, we have a big staff across the board, so absolutely. We should be, it's a relationship. It's a given take, and you should feel wanted. And so if you don't in the process, that's a good sign that this is not a good school. Yeah, we have one person at the dean's office that is handling all this and has to be funneled through the chair and he changed it. Anyway, it's like, they may get really challenging, but I agree, I hear you. That's really good feedback for me to take to my chair and be able to say, you know, can we... Right. And some departments have, like, even got so fed up that they start their own, which is not so great just to have their own, which is different from in a different style anyway. But we're doing a revamp, because it's, yeah, it's our public face. It sort of has to be. So thank you for that reinforcement. I can take that back and be like, yes. Yeah. If you could write an email to the graduate director of the program saying, I really want to reply to your program, but there's so little information that I decided to reply to the email and say... They can forward that. They can forward their site. They can forward that. And I can take that to my team. And I can go, we're losing students to you. She wanted to reply to us if we had a better website. That's how they grew. Don't do that. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I know along with that, keeping your faculty lists up to date with who's on sabbatical land and... Try? Yeah. That would be great. It's a great subject in programs and staff and faculty that you have. Okay. I'd also add full financial transparency for things like scholarship. Yeah. Yeah, that is something you guys got to be careful of, right? Certainly. Because grad school is not a scam. It really isn't. But at least most of the time. But... I didn't think on that. But it's really important to be 100% really, really clear about what your financial obligations are when you go into it, right? And if you have any questions at all, demand the answers. Right. And, you know, my program is very lucky with full funding, but not for international students. I just found this out. That there's an additional fee for international students, which is quite substantial. It comes out to something like $2,000 a year. And, you know, I told the students who were wrong, who were wrong, that he was fully funded because I thought he was. Now, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, right? That would be great. We ripped ourselves inside out to help them. And we're doing that. We're able to cover them. But that's going to be my plan. So now we'll put it on the website. If you aren't an international student, please be aware that there's this other stuff that we can't do anyway. So, you know, hopefully, you don't get surprised by that again. But, yeah, to be sure. Great. The last thing we'd like to do with our just a couple minutes here for myself, my fellow Iowa cohort and our friends that are helping us today, facilitate this. We wanted to just go around and maybe share just like one thing of unsolicited advice. We've all sort of been meditating on this that we'd like to share with you all. Shall we just go around? I suppose my piece of advice is have a hobby. Especially, I can't speak to other programs. Like I said, Yale School of Law, I can very much feel like a very insular all-encompassing part of your life. And to have the activity that perhaps gets you out into the wider community, mine is ultimate frisbee, is a godsend. And it's a way to kind of demonstrate that work life, self-care, all the wonderful millennial buzzwords that are truly, truly important. Way to live your life. I have two really small ones. I would say, don't be afraid to go geographically much farther than you ever anticipated because it's provided a really good perspective and then I'd say I kind of just want to second that you can't lose track of the big picture so you have to eat okay and continue to work out if that's what you do or whatever because you have to feel your body during school and you can't take three years off from taking care of yourself. So, as I've learned. Mine's similar. Well the first thing I would say is in interviews, the people interviewing you as much as they are asking you questions, asking them everything, how much money will you give me can I do this, can I write this, that kind of stuff. And then the other to go along with that is put the personal health infrastructure in place before you begin. Like maybe the summer before start eating well whatever that means whatever your personal health things are go find a psychologist or a therapist or something before you need them is huge. So all of that stuff think about before your first day of grad school because it'll be a little bit easier that personal health infrastructures in place when you need it and you will at some point. Me too. Entering but yes me too. Oh yes. Bother current students more than you feel comfortable doing so. They are the first responders of the truth and like their full experience and even if you're bothering folks that addition to people have set you up with go further because a lot of the times they're shutting you up with the students that will have a lot of positivity to share. So I've had like a swing of trying to figure out what it's actually what does it feel like to be here, live here, breathe here, work here. And they're the ones that are on the ground in the program. So above of them way more than you think you should. And I love to talk. I love to tell people about my experience. You're not really bothered. Yeah tell me on that we want to be bothered. Yeah we will. We want to be able to share that because it helps us sort of reflect on our own time in our program. My piece of advice would be if you're going to grad school involves a big move somewhere do whatever you can to get on the ground more than a week before you start. Give yourself a little time to figure out what are my places going to be when I need coffee what are my places going to be where I want to go get a drink with friends and make that place a home before you have to make that place to school because you're going to want to be able to separate those spaces a little bit and have a feel for where you are once you get there. My piece is I think one of the greatest values that we have is dramaturgs in theater and on collaborative processes is being advocates and being agents of change so not being afraid once you acclimate to your graduate program and figure out the landscape that you that you feel empowered to make the space what you want it to be and if there are problems that you can get for that and that hopefully grad school can be a better, healthier, safer space for not just yourself but those who come there after. Can I just piggyback on that? Yes. Because there have been times when my students I think in some ways they're like well I'll just this is not going well but I'll just keep going and keep going and then I don't know that things have been bad for a year you know what I mean or whatever it is so not that you have to shout out on every little thing or whatever but if something is not going well in a class you know whatever you could see that it's more than just a flash in the pan kind of thing let your advisor know so they can do I don't know like I remember like I had a student go out and do an internship and by the time that nine months was over they was like that was really terrible like okay well I would have wanted to know like months two and nine you know not nine or whatever thank you so much for being with us and just wanted to make you aware that LMDA has a guide to dramaturgy programs on the website all available to us as members has every program who's in charge it's a great resource for all of you to like really get a good list of what's out there as well as comprehensive dramaturgy bibliography and you caucus source book all online and make sure you're a member of an ECD early career dramaturgy page to continue