 Hello everybody and welcome to week 5, Deeper Learning for a Wide Rage of Students. I'm Ryan Gallagher and I'm from High Tech High and I just wanted to welcome everybody here to week 5's Lens into the Clownsroom and we have a fantastic presentation with Andrea Morton from High Tech High, High Tech Middle Chula Vista. So before we get started, I just wanted to make a couple announcements. This week as you've noticed with some of our emails, we've encouraged our participants to wipe the slate clean and to join us live. We know that with a MOOC sometimes you're at different levels and at different paces but we do think there's a lot of value in being able to join us live so we would like to encourage everybody to not worry about where you are but for the last three weeks to join us live for some of our conversations focusing on academic mindsets, assessment for Deeper Learning and personal favorite of High Tech High which is curating student work. Also on the front of the website, there's a short survey that you can do that give us a little feedback about the course and what you found valuable and what we can do to change in these last couple weeks. Also next week we'll be introducing our badges or Deeper Learning MOOC badges so we would encourage as many of you out there to apply for those so you can get some of those. Also just a couple of highlights from the DL MOOC community. Again, there's so much stuff to go through every week. It's difficult to pick some of our favorites but two that really spoke to us here at High Tech that were great were the Deeper Learning story bank and a story from Joanne Delaney from Hershey Middle School and her short excerpt about iMatter and how she uses the Genius Hour in her classroom. Personal favorite of mine, however, has to be Blair Matthews' story about brewing beer. I won't tell you anymore but we'll encourage you to go to the Deeper Learning blog and check out that story. So without any more from that, I'd like to pass it over to facilitator extraordinaire who's back with us this week. We missed you last week so thanks for being back Laura and she's gonna have us introduce the panel. Thanks everyone. Great, thanks Ryan. So welcome once again. We're gonna be jumping into a consultancy protocol. A consultancy protocol is really a great way to get at a question of practice. Andrea's gonna be sharing her question but I think one of the things we notice about these protocols is that it's a question that perhaps all educators might have about their classroom and so we're gonna be using her example in her classroom in this question and also think about how it might relate to our own practice. So I wanna thank Andrea for sharing her work tonight because it is always scary to put yourself out there not only into a Google Plus community amongst her peers but also to the Google Plus world community that we have in our class here. And so I wanna applaud her for her willingness, her bravery and her willingness to be vulnerable to share her practice and of course share her wondering. So the way the protocol will work tonight is that we're gonna have folks do some introductions and then I will go over the structure of the conversation. So why don't we have Andrea why don't you introduce yourself and we'll just have folks introduce ourselves and then we'll jump right into the conversation. Great, thank you so much, Laura. My name is Andrea Morton and I'm a sixth grade humanities teacher at High Tech Middle Chula Vista. Hi everyone, my name is Asal Mirza-Hosane and I teach 12th grade English at High Tech High North County and I am a part of the Deeper Learning MOOC as a TA. Callie? Oh, sorry. Hi, my name is Kaylee Frederick and I am an eighth grade humanities teacher at High Tech Middle Chula Vista. And then all of our students, we've got three in there, it looks like we only have one, but how about you guys all introduce yourself. Well, hi, my name is Trey Lewis, I am a junior here at High Tech High North County. My name is Erine Chavez, I'm also a junior here at High Tech High North County. I'm Paris and I'm also a junior here. I'm Spencer Gooch, I'm dean of students here at High Tech High North County. Wonderful. So the way this structure will work, and Edric, if you wanna slide us up to the next screen, the way the conversation will work here is we try to keep it timely and keep it structured so that we can get to the heart of her issue in a timely fashion. The way the conversation will work tonight is that Andrea will have about six minutes to give us an overview of her dilemma and also some of the work samples that she has. After that, I'll give my group here a minute to kind of prep some questions. The questions they will be prepping are clarifying questions and I'll guide them through that, but really quickly clarifying questions are data factual based questions that our presenter can answer in relatively a short sentence or a phrase. And then we'll move to probing questions and those are deeper questions, why questions? And then again, we will move into a group conversation to talk about why this is a dilemma, what's happening here and what suggestions might we ask and give the presenter. Lastly, the presenter will have an opportunity to come back in and share her thinking. And then the last two steps are as an opportunity for us to debrief the conversation we had as a community. Did we stick to her question? Did we ask good questions and how might we get better? And then lastly, which I think is important for all of us is these conversations not only are a question about Andrea's practice, but also how they connect to our own practice and our own classrooms and our organizations and where we are. So we'll close the loop if you will at the very end. I'll go over the norms really quickly. In any conversation, we wanna be hard on the content and soft on the people, meaning in this context, we love the presenter, I've met her many times, she's a lovely woman, but we wanna focus on the project and the content and it's not about her, it's about the dilemma and about the work. The second and it's be kind, helpful and specific. Again, we wanna offer her good advice, it does not help her if we say that's a great question, that's a great dilemma, that's great work, that's really kind, not so helpful and clearly not very specific. And then the last one is step up, step back, which is really hard for me, which means we wanna monitor our air time so that we really make sure that all the voices in this room are heard. I will also be bringing in questions from the Google Plus community or Twitter feed. So we wanna hear your voices as well as we listen to this, so I will be your voice on the screen tonight. So I encourage folks to send in their questions and their comments so that we can have our panelists hear those thoughts. So without further ado, I'm gonna start and turn the conversation over to Andrea. And again, Andrea, you have just about six minutes, I will time you to give us an overview of your dilemma. Thank you so much. I feel really lucky to be here. Thanks for having me. So I'm at High Tech Middle School of Vista where I'm really fortunate to teach sixth grade humanities and I began my teaching career in 1997. So in the last 17 years, I've taught in private, public, and charter schools. And I joined High Tech High in 2004 and I love it. So at High Tech Middle School of Vista, our amazing school has a really diverse student body. We actually have 61% of Hispanic students. We have 13% Filipino students, 10% Caucasian students, 8% African American students, 4% American Indian students, and then a lot of other things in the mix as well. 53% of our students are on free and reduced lunch. And we have a per people expenditure, which includes special education of just $6,503 per year. And we are really proud of the great work that we're able to do on that budget. So according to recent self testing, about 5% of our students currently qualify as English language learners. But there are a lot of students here who have passed that test and who still really struggle with academic English. Eight to 10% of our students have individualized education plans or 504 plans. And so the one thing that we really like to emphasize at High Tech Middle School of Vista is that we don't like to look at labels for students. So we don't use the gifted and talented designation here for our high achieving and high ability students. We like to know each of our students really well as individuals. We really like to know that their students, if they need support, we'll meet them at their level. We'll give them the support they need. If they need extra challenge, if they have the capacity, they're ready for it. We love to give them the challenge that they desire and that they're ready for. But we don't like to put labels on that. But today I'm gonna be talking to you about a project really close to my heart that my students just completed. I've got it right here actually. It's called Labels to Classified. And it is a product guide that was written by my 52 sixth grade students over the course of about 14 weeks. And it's a research and writing project. And right now actually you can purchase it on Amazon.com. It's available for purchase which makes my students incredibly proud. And so this guide was written by kids for kids. And it was designed to have students pick their absolute favorite products, food or personal care products. And then investigate ingredients inside of those products to find out what the real health effects are of those ingredients. And so my students were using a variety of online resources at different levels of complexity. And some of the resources they used include SkinDeep which is by the environmental working group, also fooducate.com, foodfacts.com. And they spent a lot of time on a tricky one. It was PubMed.gov which is actually a database run by the US government. It kind of aggregates all kinds of studies that have been done by researchers and labs and universities all over the world. And so they were looking at original source information there and then it was really tricky to have to kind of wade through the scientific language, figure out exactly what it was saying, and then put it into language that was for kids so that other students their age or younger could understand what they had researched. So their goal was to write articles for this project. And we had some essential questions. The essential questions we were looking at were how do people make decisions about the products that they buy and use on a daily basis? Is it possible to have too much knowledge? Does knowledge equal power? And finally, does not having knowledge lead to happiness and does it lead to health? So to begin this project, our students began their research and once they had collected all of their research from those sources that I mentioned, they went ahead and began the writing process and they took their articles through the full writing process and they received a ton of critique. And one of my goals in the project was to have them use a lot of evidence in their writing. We've been looking a lot of the common core standards and we're very committed to them and so I wanted to make sure we had a lot of evidence in their writing that backed up their personal opinions and perspectives. And so this process lasted a long time. Our students did many drafts, some as few as four to five drafts, others as many as nine drafts and they got critique from a variety of sources including teachers, including eighth grade students, younger students, their peers, actually their family members in addition. We kind of spread it out to make sure they got as much critique as possible so they get a really authentic product. The dilemma I'm gonna be looking at today has to do with differentiation for my really high ability, high capacity and high achieving learners. And my question is, what effective differentiation strategies can I implement for my high ability and high achieving students in a mixed ability classroom when working on research and writing projects specifically that's gonna ensure a challenge and access for all of my students. And so I'm gonna tell you a couple of differentiation strategies I actually used in this project so you have an idea where to get started. First of all, I gave multiple entry points for the project and provided a wide variety of source texts both physical texts and then online that were at different reading levels and just different levels of complexity and we use flexible grouping inside of the project. I also provided quieter areas in the classroom for students to work in and one to one kind of coaching and instruction for students that needed a little bit of extra push. I provided higher tiered assignments, sorry, not higher tiered, but tiered assignments. So like for example, my high ability students were asked to research their topics in greater depth and give ample evidence from their research to support their point of view where maybe some of them are more struggling students might have been just really trying to work within the structure and do the very best they could in that structure. All of my students were given the opportunity to investigate their individual passions and pursue open ended questions they had about their research. They engaged in dialogue and they had their work examined by professional experts which included two university professors, one from the University of San Diego, one from UCSD and we're both chemistry professors, also a nutritionist. We had a food scientist and a cosmetic chemist coming from a company called CP Calco and all of those experts were available to interact with my students, dialogue with them and actually look at their work and give feedback. My students were offered multiple opportunities to critically examine the motivations of interested parties in this issue of ingredients and what goes in your food and your products. For example, we had Socratic seminars around like what would a doctor have to say about this versus what would a pharmaceutical company representative have to say about this and how do different people manipulate information in different ways? And then our students presented their information to a wide variety of audiences and they also applied for and took on positions in a product guide company that we used to actually put together our book and we also have a website that was put together where our students recorded audio recordings for each of their articles so you can actually go on and listen to them in their own voices. So for some of our students, this process was really, really challenging and we were working about five to 10 hours a week and for some of the kids, it took 10 weeks to get through this full process and others of my students were extremely focused, really disciplined, very high level, got things quickly, did multiple drafts, did extra research and still managed to wrap up their articles in a beautiful way in a pretty short time, more like five weeks and so again, getting back to my dilemma. That was fantastic, Andrea. Thank you so much. You just gave us a lot of information and so I'm gonna allow my folks to kind of just take a minute here if you wanna go to the next slide, Edric, to generate what we call clarifying questions. Great and clarifying questions are again clarifying, they're questions of fact. How many students, she did a great overview if she might not have lots of experience but many clarifying questions, but we might. But clarifying questions are again factual-based questions. I always love a, you can tell a good clarifying question when they can answer right away. It's almost like, done, done. They really got it right off the top of their head. They know it. So I'm gonna give my panelists here and everyone in the audience just a minute to think of or write down a clarifying question you might have for Andrea about her dilemma or about this work. So let's take one minute as a community to generate some clarifying questions. We're gonna turn here, we're gonna get started here and I'm gonna turn over to Paris, one of our students who I know has a clarifying question she's ready to start with and we will just have about five minutes for this next piece. All right, so my question is, have you tried this project before? No, this was the first time we did this project. Are we allowed to jump in on that? Could I ask a question, too? Please do. Okay, how many of your students were advanced or they were getting it faster than the others? I would say, so we have two sides of the team that are 26 kids each and I would say a net situation where they were really getting it, like swiftly. So could you repeat that one more time, Andrea? I think I just lost you for a second. Oh, sorry, yeah, I'd be happy to. So I would say that, so we have a full team of 52 which is divided into two 26-person parts and in that I would say about eight members of each 26-person part. We're probably getting it really swiftly, didn't need a whole lot of extra explanation, just really dove in and did a great job with it. So that would be about 16 students on the full team and about a third of my team. Andrea, did you? Oh, sorry. No, no, you go. Did you give them like a standard format that they were supposed to follow when they wrote their articles? I did provide models to them. We looked at other articles and I created a teacher model for them as well and we dissected it and put together like a critique sheet together for what we were looking for in a great article but I also tried to leave it pretty open-ended because I knew that they are way more creative than I am and can come up with amazing stuff. Did you receive any feedback from students who wanted more challenge? There was definitely a point in the mid part of the project. I call it the doldrums. When all of a sudden there was a group, a contingent of students who were ready to move on and they were anxious and excited to move on and one of them actually used the word patient in a conversation with me and she said, it's just so hard to be patient and wait. I'm gonna jump in here. Kristen Bell from our audience asked the question, what kinds of criteria were given, if any, to people who were asked to critique the work and how did this vary by students? I wish I had the form with me to show you but so we put together like a really nice critique form that we gave to, we asked very specific questions and I don't have it in front of me but we maybe could post it online later and so all of the people that were asked to critique were given a series of guided questions that I co-developed with the students and those questions involved like specificity, for example, like do you feel that there was enough evidence that was used here in order to support the person's argument? Questions like that? Oh my goodness, I have a question for you, Andrea and I totally and completely spaced on it just now. I'm so sorry, it's a change of scenery, by the way, everyone, I'm sorry about my technical difficulties. Sure, I'll jump in right here. Yeah, that's awesome, thank you. I'll jump in because I know there's some students, audience questions and maybe jump in after that. Kenneth Slayman asked, where did the students work individually or in groups? And then his follow-up question, were the high-achieving students the ones who actually finished the project? Oh, great question. Okay, so all of my students finished the project and every student has an article represented in this book and the first question, I'm sorry, oh, individually or in partners. Most of the students ended up working individually but there were three or four groups that chose to work in partners. Okay, hi, I'm back, I remember my question. So, where did you feel, is there one moment that sticks out to you that the high-achieving students were most successful? Were they were most successful? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. My high-achieving students were really successful when they were giving their presentations of learning afterward, after the whole project wrapped up, we had an exhibition, we had presentations of learning and they really shone because at that point they weren't just creating things, they were having to articulate their understanding and actually defend it in front of a panel that involved parents and the parents of other students and random audience members and teachers and there was a higher level of expectation of their excellence at that moment and they really stepped up to the challenge and they felt excited about it and they were nervous. It was kind of like fun to see how nervous they got because they really wanted to be able to demonstrate how well they understood the concepts that they'd covered. So I think that was the moment that they felt incredible pride whenever they were presenting. I have another question. So originally how long did you expect this project to go and also you said that some students finished five weeks and some students finished after 10 weeks. What did the other students do when they were waiting to catch up? Right, okay, it was really good questions and you asked me two of them so I'll answer the second one first if that's okay. So I need to start writing down. So the people, it was a process but what we did was creating this product guide company because we had a lot of students who were really excited about the topic and had a lot of interest in the research and wanted to learn more about the science and they really loved going through PubMed but they had actually completed their article to a level of excellence and so at that point everyone applied for jobs and so we created this massive company with all of these different jobs and students were able to look through the full catalog of jobs and then apply for their top three positions and in that they had to write me a cover letter, I made them fill out a real California job application and then they had to interview with me for why they would be the best person for that position and it involved actually putting together the product guide and putting together the website so they were related to the project and so those kids had to step up and take on a lot of responsibility and positions of authority and they were also empowered to pursue their own independent research. There was another question though, sorry, what was your first question? I apologize. Just how long did you expect it to go at the beginning when you were just thinking about the project? Thank you, I originally anticipated it would last from eight to 10 weeks. Thank you. I've got a question if I can jump in real fast. My question is where will this be shown if anywhere, like an exhibition or where it'll be exhibited? Well, it's been exhibited a couple of times but I mean I guess the sky's the limit because I don't really think the project needs to end with the publication of the book. We had a full school exhibition, pretty high stakes here in December and there were about 400 community members including families and relatives and friends who came through and my students got up and they had to present their work and they were very proud. It's also being exhibited online on the website that we created which is called www.labelstoclassified.com and so I guess that's kind of a permanent exhibition and then in addition to that it's available for purchase on Amazon and I gotta say sales are brisk, we've been doing a good job so we're really proud of that but it's been suggested to me that perhaps our students could present at like a local fair or maybe we could actually go to like nutritional conventions or different places where people have booths and actually stand up and present their learning since their work is very real world. Great, so I'm gonna cut off the clarifying questions. They might continue to come up during the probing round and that is okay but we're gonna move to probing questions and probing questions again are probing, are questions that really get it why this is really an issue for Andrea? What's at the heart of this issue? The clarification, they are not advice in disguise. If the question begins with have you considered, I wonder if you've tried. That's probably a great piece of advice but we're gonna hold on to that piece of information and for our discussion and use that. These questions are what is your biggest worry about this issue? And I know we're gonna give the audience and everyone in the audience and of course my panel is about a minute to generate some clarifying questions. You'll see how you might wanna start with them but I'm just gonna put a minute on the board for everyone to generate and then we'll jump in again with some more questions for Andrea. Okay, let's jump in. I know one of our teacher sponsor has a clarifying, a probing question you want to start so I will turn it over to him. Cool, so my question is about differentiation in general, not necessarily the project and I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about what do you think is the purpose behind differentiation in project-based learning? I think differentiation is at the heart of everything we do in our projects because this is a school for everyone, it's for all of our students and each of our learners are incredibly unique and it's a real passion for me to make sure that when we're in the middle of a project that it brings out that passion and that work ethic in every single student and it meets them at their level so that they can really rise to a really positive level of expectation but also be nurtured and supported and we have a lot of English language learners or kids with 504s where they require a certain level of scaffolding that is quite different than for maybe our more advanced learners that are a little bit more high ability and high achieving so for me I just want to feel when I walk in the classroom and I'm presenting a project that I'm passionate about and I want to inspire them to feel passionate about it that I'm meeting everyone at their own level of readiness and that I'm giving them text that they can really sink their teeth into and get excited about and I want each kid to leave school every day feeling like they had a great day they learned something amazing and that whoever they were, they were pushed. So I'm gonna jump in with a probing question from Charlie Settles, one of our wonderful Google Plus community members and course participants, he asks how did you maintain the interest of advanced students when the other students were still working on their assignments? And I think that really got into the independent opportunity for independent learning and pursue their open-ended questions and because they found interest, like genuine interest as they were doing their research for their articles, they found things that they'd never heard of before and they wanted to look into it more and they were really excited about and kind of make a presentation about that and so it was giving them that freedom and flexibility to let their minds soar and not be limited by the constraints of the original guidelines of the project. I try if kids get excited about something to unlock that door for them so they can go through it and see where it leads. So Andrea, I have a question about not necessarily during this project but in past writing projects and research projects, when was there this moment where you felt like your advanced writers and researchers were really challenged? Like, what does that look like for you? Okay, well, when you asked me that question, I mean, it's like a look on their face. When they're writing and they're really into it and they do not want to be bothered because they're like so focused at the table and their hands are moving furiously or they're typing really furiously and maybe like a kid next to them might be trying to like chat them up about something but they're like, dude, don't bother me, I'm into it right now. So they have like that depth of like passion going. I think that's when I'm like, yes, we're getting it. It's awesome. Okay, so I have a problem question also. Were there certain aspects of the project that worked better with one group of students over another? Yes, absolutely. For some of my students that are more tactile and hands-on whose type of multiple intelligence is more kinesthetic, the art part of the project was like super popular and they adored actually, they made paintings which you can see in the background of my classroom but they're actually here and they became the illustrations for the book and so they were using, you know, different kinds of artistic mediums to put that together and you can almost feel like a visceral sigh of relief for those students of like, oh, I lost, okay, fine. Something that I can do that's different than like all of the stressful research. So yeah, that was definitely a moment that stood out. Andrea, I was wondering, did you feel like all of your students were engaging with the essential questions? Like, did you feel like the essential questions you had shared with them were consistently present in the work they were doing? Yeah, and they got pretty fired up about one of them in particular. They got really fired up about, well, it's kind of the combination of this knowledge equal power but also does having knowledge leads to happiness and health and we had Socratic Seminar discussions and debates about this kind of thing and they got heated with each other about some people feeling like, yeah, we need to know, this is really important. It's gonna save our lives, it's gonna change things, we're gonna have better health and then other kids saying, whoa, I don't wanna know this about my Oreo cookies. Like, that's my favorite food. I just don't wanna know this information because now that I know it, what am I gonna do? Now I have to make this difficult life decision am I still gonna eat this even though I know it's terrible for me or am I gonna stop eating it but like feel a twinge of sorrow every time I see a bag of Oreos. So they actually did really care and we refer to the essential questions a lot and I feel like the kids in their final exhibition of learning and also in their presentations of learning really refer to that question of how people make decisions about the products they buy and use on a daily basis and then we were giving presentations to the younger students in school. They would ask the younger kids, so how do you make decisions about the products that you choose to buy and use? And it was cool to hear them using that language of essential questions in their presentations. So I'm also curious when you think about what it is that you really want those high achievers to be doing can you just talk a little bit about that that might help us kind of think as we're thinking about these differentiation strategies. Yeah, I'm going to think about that for a second. Oh, sorry. That's a good sign of a probing question. That's why I like it. And if you don't know the answer, that's okay. No, I can think it through on my feet. I would really like to see my challenged learners getting to a point where they feel empowered and motivated that they can be proactive and not be looking around for me as the teacher to give them necessarily the next step. My goal, like my dream, would be for students to approach me and say I was just researching this and I'm really excited about it and I'd like to make a short movie about this or I'd like to program an app about this. Can I do that? And then I'll feel like, yeah, you definitely can and I'm super excited that you asked me. I can see that you're really engaged right now that you care about this. That's my goal. Have you seen anybody do that yet? Sorry, I just quickly piggyback off Spencer. Yeah, actually I did have a student, in fact the student whose work is featured as on the slide deck as being the one who was sort of like the capacity high achieving students. I think we're calling him George in this example. So he actually did come to me and say I'd like to make an app for this project. We were making a website. He was like, have you thought about putting it on phones? Everybody's using phones these days. I'd like to be able to use this in the grocery store. And so I empowered him to get started on that. I gotta tell you the truth though, he didn't finish it. I was really excited about it. When he got into it, the technology got really difficult and he got really stressed. And so he pulled back from that by his own choice. But it was a really exciting moment for me when he asked. Cool. I had a quick probing question, which is how do you generate excitement in the classroom, getting people pumped up for their projects? Well we try to make things really hands on. So we kicked off this project with like an interactive activity where all of the kids got envelopes and in it they had like a certain secret amount of play money and we had all these products up in the classroom and they had to like negotiate and talk as a group about, well how much do we have and which of these things can we purchase? And then they needed to like defend the entire team. This was the first day of school. Like it had to defend to the whole team. You know, why do we like this product and why is it worth purchasing and what's exciting about it? And so they were like making posters and like songs and dances. I really like it when things are super interactive and so I feel like empowering them to bring out their creativity into the classroom is really great. I feel like my role is often as a facilitator and kind of a cheerleader too. I try to be exciting. Sometimes I sing to them to be honest. You know, try to be goofy. So I'm gonna jump in with a question from the audience. Kenneth Sleiman asked, did you notice any difference with and how the different types of learners dealt with challenges, adversity within this project when they were confronted with a challenge? How did that work out for you? Yeah, that's a really good and authentic question. And yeah, I noticed a huge difference in how different learners grappled with, especially the research component, which was very, very taxing for some of the students. Some of my lower students just shut down and they really needed that one-to-one coaching of having me or maybe an academic coach sitting with them and taking them through and scaffolding and providing for them text that were at a more appropriate level and just kind of making it a gentle process and a lot of positive reinforcement, a lot of encouragement and trying things different ways. Whereas I gotta say with my high achieving students, I mean, they just have a really strong work ethic, most of them. And so like with them, it was more about like, give us more, give us more, feed us more, we need more as opposed to, but there was a real difference. And so when they found research that was challenging, they got excited. Like, ooh, I really like that. Like, this is cool, I've never heard of this before. Whereas with some of the other students, it was really kind of like stressful for them. So I have one more kind of last question. Going back off the students that struggle, how do you kind of find that balance of I don't want to bore students, but I also don't want students to feel really left behind? It's such a tough balance and it's a daily struggle, but it's also a daily joy. You know, I think I try to start out by giving multiple entry points so that all students can kind of access whatever content we're looking at it from a different position. And I might try in the classroom a variety of strategies and honestly, if I sense something isn't working, you know how you can get a feeling in the room if it's just not working? If I sense it's not working, I'll stop right where I am and say, all right, let's be real here. What's actually happening? This is what I'm feeling. I feel like maybe some people are a little disengaged right now. How are you feeling about that? I really like to involve student voice and choice in my classroom. And a lot of times they have really great ideas for me about how I can make it more engaging. So I do check-ins with them. I'll have them do written feedback that can be anonymous or even I'll give them online surveys where they can talk to me about how they really feel about different strategies that I'm using to implement things, what's working, what's not working. And that really gives me ideas for how I can switch up my teaching and try to be better. Great. Thanks, Andrea. I appreciate all the great responses and of course all the great questions that came from our panelists in the audience. We put up the slide question again, which is your question. And do you wanna take a look at that question again? Is this still, given all the questions you got, is this still your question? Or is this a question, has the question merged at all or changed? No, this is definitely still my question. This is something, I actually started an action group at our school around this question because it's something I feel really passionately about and I have three other group members who are phenomenal teachers and all of us really care about this issue. It's something that as an organization, we just really wanna make sure we're doing a fantastic job for every single one of our learners. So I know this is definitely still the question. Great. So for those in the audience and our panelists, of course, is that we're gonna move to a discussion and we'll have just about 10 minutes for that. And I just wanna make sure that everyone has the question. For those of you who've never done a protocol before, it's always really helpful to have the question written down in front of you because we wanna jump into her dilemma and our issue but we also wanna make sure we're addressing her question. Her question is what we're focusing on. So if you haven't done so already or if you're having a piece of paper, make sure you have the question at the forefront of your mind or at least on the forefront of your paper in front of you. So Edra, we're gonna move to the discussion side and we're gonna start the discussion with, again, about 10 minutes of celebrations. And what I'm gonna ask my audience here and of course, the Google Plus community and Twitter is to kind of type in and share out what can we celebrate? What is the warm feedback that we can offer her about this dilemma that she's posing to us? What bright spots do we wanna share? And then we'll move into a discussion of what's missing and then of course lastly, what recommendations might we have for her? So I know Assal wants to jump right in with some celebrations. So why don't we start? We'll just have about 10 minutes. Awesome. I just wanted to celebrate the project work and just Andrea's energy around all of this. Like she's so positive and so passionate about it and staying so committed to this. It can be pretty easy to kind of throw your hands up sometimes and I appreciate that a lot. And something that stood out to me when she was describing the project as a whole and we didn't really talk about but I love the process of critique that she went through. And I feel like that can be really meaningful for all students regardless of what level they're accessing the work at. And I love that she has families critique their work. That's such a cool idea. It's something I'd love to bring into my classroom. One thing that I really wanna celebrate is I love that there is a book that's published that is being bought by more than just students. So that sounds really, really cool. And then I just love that Andrea didn't just accept that challenging, high achieving students meant either helping somebody who was struggling or making the written piece longer. I think that's something we fall back on quite a bit. But it sounds like she is on her way to already using effective differentiating differentiation strategies. And so I wanna celebrate that big time. I want to jump in. It was great that there was multiple interest points. Like the students had a wide range of things to choose from, which I always find is helpful when I do a project. You're so energetic, but it's great. You're super supportive of all your students. And then the best part was that it was real world. It was this huge project that actually had meaning. And I find that those aspects in a project make it so much better when I do one. I'd like to say that I thought it was really great that you encouraged all the students, even if they didn't wanna go above and beyond on their learning and their research. You had them still participate in it. And I looked on the website earlier and that everybody had, they were reading their articles and all of them are great. And I couldn't believe that there was six graders. Like it just was very professional, well thought out is great. I'm just always impressed by how Andrea really strives to bring in the authentic critique into her classroom. So having all of those experts come in and look at the kid's work and just walk them through some critique through their articles. But what also struck me was that focus on empowerment as a strategy for differentiation for the more advanced kids and trying to get them to feel empowered to take their work to another level and to look for opportunities to bring their work to a bigger audience. Great, and I'm gonna share one of the celebrations. And Andrea, if you don't have to have your camera on, of course, because we're not talking, you Andrea, we're talking about the project. But I wanna just share really quickly this idea that there's student choice and voice within there from the audience. Karen wrote that, of course, the idea that students are publishing and basically publishing their work in different formats. The fact that they're writing, they're researching and they're doing art, this idea of different learners is really important. And then I think this comment from Michael Klein, one of our other Google Plus communities, said that the idea of experts, not just family members, multiple people creating their work, I think was really powerful because it gives their work some real authenticity. The work is not just for the classroom, of course, but for the outside world. And I know Trey wanted to jump in. Yeah, I just, another celebration that I was gonna say was I love how this project is connecting to real-world ideas and real-world action overall. And I think high-to-high does such a great job at that. But I also wanted to celebrate that, you specifically in the class, I think that's great. So I'm wondering if we wanna move to our discussion too, what's missing? What kind of struck us a little bit about this project and then eventually moved to recommendations for her? What assumptions are at play in this work? And again, what ideas are you thinking about with respect to what's missing? What is unheard? I was kind of wondering when she was talking about the tiered assignments and I probably should have asked this, but she said that she personally encouraged kids to go deeper into the material. But I'm wondering what that looked like and what those strategies were that she used to really try to encourage kids to delve more deeply into their research. One question I have for our group is particularly for the students here is, is this really an issue in the classroom? You know, if we were in this, if this was our project and this was our own project itself in our classroom, how might we handle this? This idea of students, you know, basically differentiating high-flying students, is this a real dilemma for you? Do you see this at play in your own classrooms? I'll jump in and answer that right away. Yes, definitely. I've been on both ends of that scale. And it's not a matter of the student, like I just said, I've been on both ends of that scale. It's a matter of my interest in the project, I feel. It is a real issue and it is something that I even discussed with my peers about it. So, yeah, I'm still trying to think of things missing. Well, I'll go ahead and jump in. I definitely think it is an issue that that kind of, to me, almost defines the good teachers from the great teachers. I've had great teachers that can really adjust to both and have a balance. And I think that really helps because, like I think I said earlier, asking the question, how do you not bore the kids, some kids, but also feel like some kids are really struggling? I think those great teachers can kind of almost, and some would teach two classes with the same material. Can I ask you a question? Sure. Okay, well, I have a follow-up question for Trey, but with those great teachers, what did they do that you remember that made it that great teacher and got both people? Well, I definitely think that what they would do in a project is they would kind of, this is kind of where the student choice comes in, but they would allow students to kind of take issues, topics, or different parts of the project, not to say that you can always pick the easier way, but a way that might be a little less challenging, but you're still learning the vaccine material, or I guess spin it around the other way, there can be a challenge option, or a more advanced option for kids who are getting bored. So I have a follow-up to that question, and this would, I guess, more go to Paris, or Arena, or Trey, but when you talk about bringing in that student voice and choice, I'm curious to what extent does having a clear kind of purpose from your teacher have to do with it? When we're thinking about what's missing from the project right now, I heard some cool ideas of possible things that high-achieving students could do, but I guess what I'm looking for is how, or as a teacher, what do we want them to be able to do? Not just additional work to do, but what's gonna make it more challenging? You know what, does that make sense? If I can rephrase that question, Spence, because I wanna make sure we're addressing Andrew's question is within this project, if this is, how might we, what effective strategies could we actually do within this work? Yeah, and I guess what I'm saying is that what I heard earlier were really cool examples of different options for additional work or additional product, but what strategies could be used in a project like this to bring out that student voice and choice for those high-achieving students? Yeah, I actually, when I just realized one thing that, it's great that she does have a wide range of options that she's encouraging the students, but maybe she should have encouraged more, like, well, I guess this is a suggestion. I find that when the teacher says, like, oh, go for it, like, if you have the idea, if they're really encouraging that you are leaving the project, it's not that you waiting for their call, it's not you waiting on the teacher to tell you what's next. If you feel like you really have a command of your part of the project, it helps. I'm not sure if that's fully responding to your question, but. Well, to kind of piggyback off that, I think a definite strategy could be not necessarily additional work because I understand what you guys are saying when that just kind of sounds like, oh, additional work, you know, what are they really doing? I think a great strategy, and I know a lot of my teachers in the past and currently use this, which is having those kids that might be bored or can use the word advanced, they could be helping out the kids who are struggling and who aren't as advanced as the students might have been. I'd also say that when I always feel like I can do more when the teacher lays out the guidelines of the project, so I've met all of these and I know that it's okay for me to do this because it's within the guidelines, as long as the teacher has somewhat specific guidelines but also allows the students and makes it clear to the students that they can run off with it too. So let's move just a little bit of time. I wanna make sure we're getting to some more suggestions for Andrea. So what suggestions, if we were doing this project ourselves, what would we do? I have a suggestion, but also it's kind of a question, I guess that Andrea can think about. But I'm wondering what the student role was like the students in North County were talking about, what the student role was in the final product and the editing process or the publication process and if there were opportunities for students to take leadership roles and start to look for those audiences where that might be interested in the publication or if they can take the editorial roles and start to divvy up some of the articles and read through them. So I'm just wondering like what opportunity there is for those students in the final product. I'm gonna put in a jump in from Michael Klein who's also saying like, he's also wondering like, how might they tease out the content and the skills and the process for the students who are really achieving and thinking what are their goals for the project? I think one thing that's at the core of this too is because students are working faster, I think this idea of the student reflection is in their work. Because again, this idea, we want them to keep going, going further, but particularly within research and writing, we're trying to achieve some type of skill. We want them to use evidence, primary source, tone, diction, and it might be interesting for them to kind of lay out, what are you as a student trying to achieve within this work, within this? What are you trying to achieve with writing? What are you trying to do with research? So the students are actually putting those goals out there themselves, because I think one thing, and again at High Takai, and I think in other places too, is we have some great high students that are achieving really well on this, but if you give them another type of difficult project perhaps with art, they won't do so well. And so I think this idea of what are the skills and content that we're actually trying within this project to achieve, because there's gonna be some students who will do really well on art and won't do well on this, and I think maybe teasing out the skills that we're trying to achieve might be helpful because then students are doing a lot more self-reflection. Did they get to this? Does their work professional? What are the skills are we actually trying to achieve within this? I know Spencer and Esau had some more comments, sorry. Yeah, thanks Laura. Spencer is kindly gonna allow me to go first. I wanna build off of what you were saying, Laura, and something that I have felt really just great about in terms of accessing all sorts of students in my class or a range of students in my class is this idea of assessment as an ongoing process and not a final point, right? So some assessment that's formative, and like Laura was saying, encouraging this reflection throughout the process and ultimately allowing the students to assess themselves because that's when you're asking them to take a step back and look at their work and see if they challenge themselves. So instead of, I feel like when I ask them to ask themselves if they've challenged themselves versus me asking them if they challenge themselves, it's there's an interesting outcome that to me has been more fruitful. I was thinking about something a little bit different. I was thinking about something related to the Common Core and perhaps differentiating out different options for students based on something like speaking, listening, writing, research, that kind of thing. So one thing to do would be maybe rather than doing more work would be then saying, okay, now you're gonna take this information about food to a city council meeting and get up and speak about it and maybe push for a city ordinance about food labeling or even going and working with local businesses to say, hey, we'd like to put up this display about food labels or something along those lines or looking at the Common Core standards again and then saying, okay, so what are the Common Core want us to do as far as researching maybe for a seventh grade student or an eighth grade student and then they're going, they're challenging themselves into that next level up. That might be like a little bit kind of more traditional than we're thinking but I think it also be something that would engage those students who are saying, give me just a little bit more. I think there's flexibility in that too. Yes. Yeah, I just had one last point and it was, I felt like looking at all my curses, did you notice here it's have like each student maybe like set a goal like at the beginning of the project explain the project what they want to achieve. So your main goal is to get them up to that goal but after that you can still encourage them further and when that happens that's when like once they reach their goal they realize, well, maybe there's still a lot more that they can do and it's like the teachers rule then to push them even past that. It then doesn't become a matter of like, oh look at this students versus this students. Look at how this student improved even past what they already wanted to do. I also think, I'm gonna jump back in and ask a lot, kind of close it up. I know Spencer, I interrupted but one of the things too is within this project they have research, they have writing and I also wonder, because students are really doing well on some writing pieces, I think there's an opportunity to give students opportunities to try something that is difficult. We have some students who are doing the drawing, it sounds like there are some students who really did really well and wanted to do that and I'm kind of on the event that we should probably push students to do the things that are most difficult for them. If it's writing and they're doing great with that then maybe they need to start working on the layout and the design because school's the place to learn. This is the opportunity to get the help and so if they feel like the writing and the research has done really and they're moving forward give them the most challenging thing for them whether that's the art piece, the flyer because unfortunately or fortunately those are skills that you're gonna need when you go off into the real world. You can't, writing is perfect and you need that but you also need the other skills as well. So how within the project can they try out things that they don't feel comfortable and that goes to the self-assessment piece. There was a researcher from Australia that said of all the research done on assessment that the thing that kids and students say they learn the most is self-assessment. That's the thing by and far that people feel that they're learning the most that's the biggest piece of assessment that has the most impact on them is this idea of self-assessment and I know one more comment and then we will jump back and have Andrea come back in. I know Spencer you had something to say. Nope, we're gonna jump back in. Oh, I didn't wanna cut you off. Let's just jump in then to the last round and we're gonna have Andrea come back in and give a quick reflection and again Andrea this is an opportunity for you to give us any kind of aha moments anything that struck a chord with you in our conversation. Feel free to not do a play-by-play of this conversation. We're not at a football game here. It's just kind of any new thinking that has occurred for you and you have just about three minutes. Thank you so much and thank you all so much for the really honest and candid feedback. I was actually taking notes while you were talking and so I now have four pages of notes and I really appreciate it. Okay, so first of all I was really struck is it Trey, are you Trey? I was really struck by what you said about, two things you said about what defines good teachers and makes the difference between great teachers is being able to adjust to both and how to make sure you're not boring anybody and you said it in a really good class it's almost like you're teaching two classes with the same material and I gotta tell you that's like at the very heart of like exactly what my dilemma is because sometimes it feels like I'm teaching four different classes with the same material and trying to juggle it all seamlessly but you're right and that's like really a goal. So it really like hit me in the heart when you saw that I was like oh he's so right. And then, okay, Asal you were talking about assessment as an ongoing process, the formative assessment and asking students to self-assess and I feel like there's a lot of power in that and I think that's something I wanna continue to explore because I feel like their voice I mean is really the most important part. It's almost one of my biggest things is getting them to advocate for themselves in the sixth grade because a lot of times don't know like I'm a really smart kid and I'm getting this really quickly and I want things to like challenge me further but they might not communicate that because they're 11 or some of them are even 10. So I really like that, but the formative assessment. Other things that struck me, let me see. So many notes here. Laura, I really liked what you were saying about try something difficult that really pushes you and it kind of tied into what you were saying about going outside your comfort zone and it tied into what Kaylee's question was about what the students role were in the product jobs and the product guide company and how they were pushing that way. So just to answer Kaylee's question I'll be talking about what you were saying about things that were difficult that push kids. Yeah, so we ended up with students that were given positions of like managing editor who were in charge of coordinating like all of the students on the team and making sure that everyone was up on their deadlines and having like spreadsheets and holding meetings and it's fun because the girl who ended up as the managing editor on one side of the team is very meek and extremely quiet and soft spoken and hates being in the limelight and she was so stressed by having to step up to that position of authority but she wanted it and she applied for it but when she actually got there we had a lot of meetings about how to like help scaffold that process of presenting for her. That was helpful. I had other students because the students actually did all the editing on this book themselves and so I had students that were the proof readers and I have two kids in particular who read every single one of the 26 plus articles that are in this book and gave feedback on all of them and then we had researchers that were helping kids locate research and so I feel like I tried. I tried. Okay, and then see there's other things that stuck out to me. Spencer, what you were talking about with the Common Core and I really like really loved your suggestions for having the kids rather than writing more like take their information to a city council meeting or like use it in the real world and then get that kind of gratifying experience of like I didn't just create this but it means that it's real and now I'm actually gonna be like talking with people, strangers, adults I've never met and actually making a positive change. I mean that's amazing. It's a great idea and so I'm gonna think really, really hard about implementing that in future projects. Thank you so much. I'm not sure. Is that good? Yeah, we're just about time and I'm gonna keep us moving to honor all of our time here tonight. We're gonna move to our debrief and just so that we do honor our time we're almost out of time so I'm gonna cut our debrief. Even though it says five minutes I'm gonna cut it to three just so that we can keep our time here tonight. And again I just wanna focus on is how did our conversation go? Did we stick to her question? Did we answer her question? Did we follow the norms? Did we get off track? And so I'll just speak as a facilitator jumping in is that I thought her question was really it's a great question because one of the things that's challenging about answering this question which just makes it a good question is that the presenter Andrea has already doing so much. It's not that she hasn't tried differentiating she's got lots of different strategies that she's already done. And so for it as a facilitator and as a teacher it pushes me to think well she's already done all this. Oh my gosh, what else could I do? So I think that for me that's why I made a good question because I was stumped. I'm like, I don't know. What else could she do? I don't know. And so I think that for me is always a good sign of a good question. I know Esau wants to jump in. Yeah, I just in reflecting on our discussion sometimes a question like this I agree with you Laura it is a really great question but I found it hard for myself to stay on track because it's a really big question and there's so many other things that we could talk about. So I definitely appreciated when Laura and a few others in the discussion well Laura is the facilitator but a few others in the discussion kind of brought us back to the question and I feel like that's something that was needed and got us back on track especially in terms of suggestions. Yeah, so I agree that there was a lot like a lot being talked about but I think it's better than nothing like no movement or flow. So even though we talk of a lot and we got all over the place I think it was great because everyone constantly had different things to be saying it kept moving. I really appreciated the student voice in the conversation and just finding out from the students what works for helping to challenge the more advanced learners or how to differentiate within a mixed classroom. And so thank you guys for being there. Thank you. As a facilitator I would have loved to see more time to look at the work because I think that would have been really interesting. I also would have loved to hear a student from her class think about this perspective and in this protocol. What was their experience in this because I'm wondering right now we're giving assumed perceptions of what the students might do and it'd be really interesting to bring your own students into this and actually solve this dilemma. The more we can have students solving these dilemmas with us and co-constructing the questions the closer we get to answering these questions. So that's one thing I think will be great. Other suggestions perhaps. I know we've gone over time but that's okay but other things do we think we ask good probing questions. And maybe Andrew how did you feel? This is kind of scary the first time you're presenting to the world if you will. How did this experience go for you? It was terrifying but I got comfortable very quickly because you guys are a fantastic panel and I agree with Kaylee having the students involved in the conversation was enormously helpful because you're the people that I'm trying to like get better for. And so thank you so much for your honesty and for all of your great ideas. I felt like during the clarifying question section you might have gotten a little bit into probing questions. I felt like maybe some of my answers were pretty long for a clarifying question but I love the conversation and I appreciate the feedback. Thank you so much. Yeah I noticed that too as a facilitator and I kind of keep the conversation going being transparent here. I just decided to let them go because I knew we needed to keep the conversation rolling. Any other things we might do better or things we liked about the actual process itself? I was thinking kind of something about what you were talking about Laura is just even just some data from students who perhaps weren't feeling challenged so we could have kind of targeted our discussion just a little bit more. I thought it would have been good. But that would be my only suggestion because I actually thought that our discussion went in a couple of pretty interesting directions with it or without it rather. I know I usually don't talk on these but I just have to jump in. I have to say that even after doing three of these the one thing I'm struck by from a procedural standpoint is the power of probing questions. I think in the last two rounds when I was facilitating and watching Laura now we've run long on those and you can see Edrick down there is always trying to keep time telling us we're like at six minutes, 12 minutes, 14 minutes, 15 minutes. And so I think maybe that's something we want to give some thought into which is that I feel like you really get going in the middle of probing questions and I don't know if you all noticed that as well but you really get into the meat of it and then it feels like it stopped so maybe extending that time, shortening clarifying questions and getting into it so it can really get our minds wrapped around the issue but I will say it was a great question and it was a really focused question and that really helps the conversation when you're having these. And I want to add on to Spencer's idea we've been doing a lot of design thinking here at our schools and the idea of interviewing students about this process and having them redesign this project or redesign the experience might be an interesting way to have a protocol because I think you're right Spencer it's like we need to have the data first of what the perception, whether factual or true it's still perception and that's still real. So I think that's just really important to keep that at the forefront of our mind when we're doing these is how might we really get at the real heart of these issues. So we're gonna move to the very last thing which is closing the loop and the closing the loop is an opportunity for us to kind of share one thing that we're taking away for our own practice. Anyone can jump in and I'm gonna encourage anyone in the Google plus community and Twitter to say given our conversation tonight what's a takeaway? What's one thing that struck you that you can take away for your own practice for your own work in your organization? So we'll just take a just about two minutes and anyone can start with what is a takeaway from tonight? I would like to say that as a student and hearing all of this I don't realize how much of a problem that is the question that she had asked and so I'd like to try and help out the students around me too if I see people falling behind or I just like to get people excited, I guess. I definitely think a takeaway for me would be kind of being kind of a teacher and how a teacher thinks about these projects. I definitely think it's a totally opposite world. Not to say that's a bad thing but I definitely think it's great to kind of see how a teacher's mind works first. I was actually like... Very good comment. Mom is actually a culmination of this. It's great to see that this is an issue that teachers are really thinking about because sometimes I don't feel that that teachers are caring so it's great to know that conversation about it and then saying with Paris how can I help the teacher or my students get more involved when there is there does it could be like there's a gap between that. I love the idea, one of the things and again as I said we've been doing a lot of design thinking is I love the idea of designing work for the most extreme ease or the most extreme student and I think that when we think about student classes we sometimes already self aggregate them into students who are really doing well, students who really need struggling and sometimes in classrooms we tend to focus on the kids who are struggling the most because they need the most help and I remember when we first started back back in the day 10 years ago when we were all young at high tech high there was this saying that says teach to the ceiling and bring up the floor and so this idea of we're gonna design the work around the most, the most accelerated the most advanced students because we can bring everyone up to that that's the expectation for every kid and I think that for this particular dilemma that's why I like it like we're focusing on the high achieving kids quote unquote but that's every kid and so to me that's really, it's every kid you know and so that focus that is what pushes the work to get better so that I think that focus of that dilemma was really helpful. One really specific thing that I heard brought up in the conversation that I'm gonna try to use for my next project is something that Arena brought up about having each student come up with a goal at the beginning of the project and really like we were talking about the self-assessment part so making sure that each student is constantly assessing whether they're reaching their goal for that project and I thought that was a great way to help students start to differentiate as well for themselves and start to think about if they are challenging themselves or if they're reaching their own personal standards. I agree with Kaylee too and this idea of setting a personal goal and I love just being reminded by this idea of doing something difficult and I always tell my students I want them to be comfortable with being uncomfortable so just taking that back into my classroom I think and reminding myself of that I appreciated that a lot. And we're gonna have, Andrea is gonna have the final word here tonight as the presenter her take away from the evening and then we'll turn it, we'll close it out with Mr. Ryan Gallagher. Okay, well I mean the biggest thing for me is this notion of bringing it back to my students and what Kaylee was saying about having them assess their own goals. I'm really excited about the notion I'm probably gonna talk to my class about this tomorrow actually since it's fresh and I would love to have them actually give me their authentic feedback about what would have made the project more challenging. This is something that I've been sensing and as a teacher that I really care about and I'm passionate about but I mean we didn't have that particular honest conversation of now that it's wrapped up what could I have done differently that would have really like pushed you to a different level and how could I do it better in the future and I'm gonna do that tomorrow, thank you. I'm just gonna share out this one, sorry I'm gonna jump to the last takeaway Ryan, sorry. Yeah that's okay. And Kristen Bell writes and I wanna share this with the community one of our Google Plus watchers tonight. The application is this idea of corporate learning I'm taking away several ideas I can use and getting excited about my clients design their own self-observation criteria before they go out and practice a skill that they're working on again. So this idea of self-reflection and self-observation was at the core for her. Well let me just thank everybody. There's so many things to thank. Andrea is a former partner of mine and we taught together back in 2005 so I have to thank I think I cashed in all my chips getting her wrangling in her to do this but it's only because I knew she would do such an amazing exceptional job and to Laura who really can demonstrate what master facilitation looks like so thank you to that. A real special thanks out, special thanks to our DL MOOC community. If we were kind of watching the questions that were coming in it really seems like people are really buying into this process and I think the feedback from you guys in the audience makes us so much more of a powerful experience. For us on the panel and hopefully for you guys out there so thank you for that. Again I have to say this and I know I say this every time but thank you to the students. It's such a powerful way to have a voice and you can see a lot of the themes. I know in the MOOC we've kind of designed these to be isolated units but you can see some of the themes that have really been coming up. You heard student voice and choice tonight. You heard about learning how to learn, learning how students how to learn which is an academic mindset so seeing how all these things really do connect to each other I think there's value in that so thank you everybody for joining us. Keep your eye out for those DL MOOC badges. I hope a lot of you continue to do those so thanks for that and we will see you on Monday for academic mindsets. Great. Thanks all. Good night. Bye.