 Can we see his face? I can use a large gallery view soon. Oh, how do I do that, mate? If you got there's three dots at the top, yeah, that's on them and use a large gallery. You'll find that it has to be large gallery in order to get Joe's on. Oh, that's a bit odd. Right. I see him. Thanks, Bill. I avoided doing that at full council. I thought I should wipe everybody off the work. We're now live. Thanks. Thank you very much. Good morning, members, officers, and any members of the public who are viewing. Excuse me. The live stream this morning. Welcome to meet in the Grant Supply Committee. I'm Joe's hails. I'm the chair of the Grants of the Grants Committee and information for the public. Our role is as a committee to consider the recommendations on the agenda and make those recommendations to the lead cabinet member for finance. That's Councillor John Williams. These applications are made under the Grants Council's Grants schemes. And Councillor William then takes his decision taken into account our recommendations. That's that's why we are there. Members, if you wouldn't mind just muting your microphones unless you're called on to speak. That's helpful. If it looks like your connection is a bit dodgy, you might want to turn off your video as well. We have had some issues that lately. Okay. Number one on the agenda is apologies. Over to you, Aaron. Have we had any apologies? Thank you, Chair. Not received any apologies for this meeting. I'll do a roll call if that's okay with you. Members, I'll just read out your name. If you could please confirm that you're present remembering to unmute your microphones before you speak, please. Councillor Daunton. Yes, I'm here. Claire Daunton, one of the members for the Fendition and Full Born Ward. Thank you. Councillor Ellington. Yes. Good morning, everybody. I'm Sue Ellington, councillor for Swavesy and Fendrayton and vice chair of this committee. Councillor Handley, please. Good morning. I'm Bill Handley. I'm an elected member for the villages of Over and Willingham. And councillor Macdonald, please. Morning, Peter Macdonald, councillor Macdonald. I'm the councillor for Dutchford. Thank you very much. So I confirm we've got all members present. Obviously, councillor Hales, we are aware that you're also present. Can I ask if John Williams, the lead cabinet member for finances, is also present? Morning. Yeah, good morning. I'm John Williams, under the lead cabinet member for finance. And I'm also a councillor of one of the councillors for Fendition and Full Born Ward. Thank you very much. Thanks, Aaron. Right, just to confirm I'm the member for Melbourne at the moment. So that's good. Okay, officers, can I ask you to unmute yourselves? I think we've got John at John London and Jay Clark on scene. Do you want to take it in turns? Let's go with seniority this time, Jay. Yeah, Jason Clark, programme manager for disabled communities and wellbeing. Lead officer. Thank you. And John, who does all the work. And John, who does all the work. I'm the community development officer at North Stowe. And I definitely don't do all the work. Okay, guys, thank you very much. Right, members, go through the minutes. Please, agenda item number three. As the usual process, if you wouldn't mind, it's on page one. If you could just go through it. Just sing out, please, if you have any alterations or comments about the midst. That's page one and page two. As there's no hands going up and no singing, may I take that as a confirmation that there are true record? Okay, Aaron, thank you very much. And number item four, which is the actual chest, a community chest funding applications. John, may I hand over to you, please, to lead this next, this section. Members, if you'd like to turn to page seven for the first one, please. Fantastic. Thank you very much, Chair. So we have four applications that have come in. They are all brand new applications. There are no, there are no deferred applications. And we also have one modification to Appendix B to look at. So the first application is from Bassingborn Nature Rangers. All of the documentation has been given to us. Sorry, just before you go in, Chair. Sorry, we didn't do declarations of interest. Can I just check that members have any declarations of interest with these items? No. My apologies. No. I missed that bit. No, no, no, me either. No, for me. Apologies, Aaron. Sorry, John. That's quite all right. So Bassingborn Nature Rangers, it will be, it's not yet set up. So it's being applied for under the setup clause, a project type. And it's basically an outdoors style nature group focused on children between five and 12 in Bassingborn, funnily enough. They're looking at doing some really interesting things. You know, pond dipping, litter picking, spending time in the local woodland area et cetera. They've got a list of activities that they have provided to me. And as part of that list, they have provided a full set of quotes for the things that they wish to purchase, which are, you know, for example, nets for pond dipping, things like that. They're all sort of quite bitty, which is why I haven't put them on here, but they're all things that would be useful for the activities that they have laid out. They are very, very clear that what they want to do is to start this, they're starting this group now in anticipation of being able to do in-person meetings later this year and hopefully in the summer when the pandemic abates and that they will not be doing these activities whilst the lockdown is still in order. They have already had a successful bid to the County Council Community Reach Fund for £1,000. In the other side of my job as the Community Development Officer, I'm aware of the lady that runs the County Council Community Reach Fund and I'm aware of her procedures for sort of checking through and making sure that organisations that get funding from them are sort of ship shape and Bristol fashion. I should say that there is just after I put it appendix, a Council CAF CART replied to me. It's a fairly long email, so at the risk of paraphrasing, and I can read it out in detail if requested. He said that he supports in principle the application. However, his concern is that it's a new group without an established track record and that he wants to have a little bit more clarity about the leadership and the fact that some of the activities will not require any money such as nature walks. So he summarises that if you are willing to grant aid to the scheme, then he will be happy to support that. But if you wanted to defer or only give a smaller amount until precise details of leadership, the exact nature of an expenditure established, then he would also support that. Thank you very much for moving me mouse. OK guys, Claire's got a hand up. Yes, thank you Chairman. So actually I was going to say more or less exactly what Nigel, what Councillor CASS CARTER said. It looks very good, it looks very worthy, but it's not yet set up and I was actually going to ask what Councillor CASS CARTER's view was. So I suppose I've got the same questions as he has. They already have money for from the County Council, so they could get started. And I think I wonder if maybe we should wait a little while once they get off the ground. I'd like to hear what others say. I have the same reservations as Councillor CASS CARTER. OK, thank you. I was getting quite a lot of background noise during that. I don't know if anybody's got the radio on or something. I agree entirely with what Claire is saying and Nigel. I've got down and I want to know who is the leader of this group and what qualifications they have for providing this. I also want to know about what support they have in terms of how many helpers per child and that sort of thing. I'm absolutely delighted that people want to do this. It's what I did as a child without anybody leading me, but you really do need to be sure that they are safe and that they're being taught the right sort of things. Thank you. Bill? Yes, yes, I do agree. I think we ignore Councillor CASS CARTER's worries at our peril. I think we just need to wait and see. I would love to be able to support it. I think it's a good idea sort of thing I like to see kids doing, but like everyone else, I'm a little nervous at this time. OK, right, so could I sum up then? If anyone else has got any comments? I mean, Grenville, this isn't exclusively to us. If you've got a point to make, please just pipe up and put your hand up and say it because you're here. So I'm quite happy. Same with officers. You know, Jay, if you've got an issue, let's go for it. You're muted though, Grenville. I was just going to say thank you very much. I will do so when appropriate. Thank you very much. Guys, OK, so I think what we're really looking at here then is to ask John if he would kindly go back to the applicant and the points that Sue and Claire made company by Bill with regards to who leads it, you know, how many children per child, per adult, per whatever qualifications, if any, a bit more background, a bit more meat on the bone, so to speak. I think we've got the approval from Councillor Cathcart and we'll have you pending bits and pieces. They can kick off. So since that no one's going to be allowed to do anything really much past or much before, shall I say, the 12th of April, I think, isn't it, is the earliest time that most things are starting to kick off. Hospitality is the 17th of May. So we're probably looking for them to come back somewhere in April or May. I would have thought, I don't know if you would agree or do you think it should be later than that? Anyone got any opinions as to whether it's later or should we just run with that for the moment? So go ahead. I think they could come back with that sort of information by the next meeting, couldn't they? You know, who's going to run it and how they're going to run it in a bit more detail about what their qualifications are. OK, if everyone's happy with that, we'll do that then. Can I also ask, Chair, can you ask them what they're actually going to spend the money on? Because I do take the point of Councillor Cathcart that the things that they have listed won't cost money. There's the shoelace. There's the shoelace as John for the cost. It's not going to cost two and a half grand. I mean, I was assuming that they wanted to use some of this money for publicity or maybe set up a website. But we need to know that because on the face of it, they're asking for two and a half thousand pounds to walk around the woods. It says tools and initial craft materials, I suppose. Two and a half thousand pounds is a lot of money. I don't understand how they're going to spend it. So I would like to know how they're going to spend that. Let's see the business plan for this. Absolutely. John, you've got to let you. I do, yes. I do have a list of things that they are going to purchase, although as a set of quotes, although I haven't gone through all of them, we are talking about items such as pull-along trolleys for carrying things, very sized gardening gloves, trowels, spades, generic outdoor gardening type things and also DBS checks for the adults that are going to be involved in this as well. And insurance. Sure. Okay. If they could make a detailed list, that would be probably helpful, I recognise one. Okay, guys, so for the moment, then we're going to defer this one then, yeah? I'm not saying no, we're just deferring. Okay, super. We'll leave that one with John to go back and redo. So, John, when you're finished with that bit, next one. Thank you very much, Chair. My perfect run of no deferrals has been shattered. The next organisation is so positive and I had an extensive conversation with Melissa Santiago Val, who is the person behind it. So to give a little bit of a background behind what so positive is, Melissa was, as many people were furloughed last year and put together a community scheme where people were sewing masks for people to wear when the mask mandate came in last year. And then what was happening was local volunteers who didn't have anything to do in their houses were sewing the masks and then they were being sold online and then that money was being put towards the NHS charities together. And I just noticed my spelling mistake in a pending case, so I apologise for that. And they were able to raise $40K in that period for charities together by selling these face coverings. Whilst they were doing that, they noticed that there was a tremendous benefit in terms of mental health with the people that were the volunteers that were sewing these masks, including students, people working, retirees, shielding individuals and people with absolutely no sewing skills whatsoever. So what she has done is to take this what was originally just sort of a one-off scheme and is setting it up as a charity. So the charity is now so positive, it is now a registered charity. Melissa did give the impression to me of being one of those sort of serial entrepire types that likes to start things off. She's currently running it from her garden shed as it's locked down and there's not really any facilities available for such things. And what she is hoping to do is to basically turn this into a positive mental health charity somewhat similar to the arts charity that came to the committee last month. However, looking at things with a sewing bent as opposed to an arts bent, and to run groups, mental health support and generally be able to prevent high-level social health care issues or escalations of those issues. She has connected into her local NHS providers. She is now registered as a provider for social prescribing for mental health issues in the area and was also involved in quite a few other sort of across Cambridge groups. Effectively she was sort of saying all the right things if that makes sense. The application is for £1,000 and it is for the start-up costs mainly for things such as insurance, the IT costs of setting up professionally, a Zoom licence and also a start-up bundle, a specifically in this start-up bundle of materials and fabric to get going. Thank you very much. Thanks John. Claire, welcome to you. Claire, you're muted. Sorry. It mentions there's a sentence here. They are connected into various county level mental health networks. Do you mean she is connected or is there a larger group? Do we know which county level mental health networks are? If she's been working out of her garden shed sowing the masks and helping volunteers, does she not already have insurance and a Zoom licence? With regards to the they, it is mainly her. She has volunteers that are helping her and there is the expectation that this will grow into a team activity. Although it is, as with a lot of these things, it is currently 95% her efforts. Although she's anticipating that, as this gets larger, she's not going to continue being the only person. With regards to exactly what she's connected into, she is also connected into mental health meetings that are happening across the county. She's connected in with her local NHS care provider and, oh yes, as I just noticed, she does actually have the 50 volunteers who are sowing masks and things. Whilst she is the main organiser, she's very much not the only member of this group. Thank you. I think it's a wonderful idea if you could see the table behind me, you would see that it's absolutely covered in another quilt. And it does take the edge off feeling that you are totally unable to do anything in this current situation. And it amuses me that she wants some start-up fabrics. Well, I have two wardrobes full in my sewing room of start-up fabric, but nobody's having it, it's all mine. It's just a lovely idea and I would thoroughly support it. I suspect that she doesn't need insurance because she is only helping people through Zoom and it's not at the moment until she becomes a proper charity, an organisation, it's a load of volunteers. So I think it has real promise and I would thoroughly support it. Thank you. Bill, please. Just to add, I just noticed that the so positive charity is also a senior school charity of the Perth School. So she clearly has the backing of that particular institution. So I must give it some confidence. Thank you. Claire? I think I've already spoken. Well, go to Peter first and then I'll come back to me. Pete? I agree with Sue, it seems worthwhile. Maybe she can make some Southcams masks for us in future. Yep, lovely. With logos. Okay, Claire? Yeah, I suppose I had more questions than other people but I'm persuaded by what I've heard from others to support it. Marvellous and I think then looking at the faces I think and what's been said that we're looking for approval. Yeah, that would be unanimous then Aaron including myself in that one there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. The next application is a further new application from the Arthur Rank Hospice Charity. I will put a brief sort of content warning at the beginning of this that obviously we are going to be talking about some fairly heavy issues during this next one. Arthur Rank Hospices have helped people and their families who are reaching the end of their lives and support them in their own homes through that process. They are responsible for sending people out for medical interventions where something rapidly may have gone wrong life altering life shortening implications and at present what happens is that the any more serious diagnostic work that needs to occur will require a trip to the hospital either in the ambulance or taking people in via taxi which is not quite as urgent. This application is for three specialist kit bags that are going to be provided to the clinical nurse specialists or doctors so that they will be able to run rapid tests for some of the most common issues that occur with this type of patient in the home. We do have a full list of the contents of these kits which I can provide to you if you wish. It's all I'm not a biologist but tests for various levels of things and things you spit on and it will tell you something about the biochemistry of the person involved. I should note that with regards to links to NHS and with regards to any questions we may have with regards to replacing funding from other statutory bodies that whilst the author rank hospice charity is linked in with the NHS and works alongside them and do receive funds they receive ring fenced funds for other things and that there is no NHS funds available for this particular purchase which is why it is being brought before us today. Thank you. Thank you John. Questions member but before anyone goes off on this and ask questions I have a question perhaps for John London and potentially John Williams as the member for finance. This seems extremely important and pertinent I suppose if you like this application with regards to the current situation everyone's in and why have you and I'm wondering if they are just making an application for what they need or what they think we will fund. I mean we can fund up to a thousand pounds they've only asked for five hundred and sixty four pounds worth is there another two kits that they could use is there anything else that they could add into this that they could use and I think this is such a worthwhile app that being disrespectful to any of the other grant funders but this is such a worthwhile process for end of life is just beyond me so that was just my question to everybody there while they are thinking whatever John may go. I will say that in the original application they were very meek as it were and they said they put in an application for two or three kits and I unilaterally decided that we would bring forward the three kits rather than the two from my understanding a lot of the things within these kits are packs of single use medical equipment obviously if you've got a single use test for something you can't reuse that. There are aspects within the kits that are multiple use of for example the bags themselves and various other things that can be reused so I would whilst I have not spoken to them I would anticipate that it would be possible to just purchase more of the single use equipment. Thank you. Okay guys members got any points comments Sue? I would support you entirely in what you've said it would seem to me that there needs to be a stock of reuse stuff and that a way whoever you are and it would be sensible to move forward with a slightly larger grant. Okay. Peter? Just two quick things from me one is I would agree with what Sue has said the second thing is are they aware of our mobile warden schemes because there seems to be some possible synergy. As I understand it they're making of Sue's shaking shaking ahead they're making some home visits I just wondered whether it was worth the conversation but that's a separate point. I would I'm going to say probably what Sue's going to say here I think that mobile warden schemes do not provide personal care or any description whatsoever in that realm and I think this is very specialist so whilst I appreciate the thought Pete I think that one would be a no-no. Claire? Yeah Dave put in an application for what they want and I think we should touch the application on its merit to be very happy to support £564 for this and maybe when sending them the letter letting them know or the email letting them know that they have received this funding we could encourage them to come back to the future but I wouldn't I don't think we should go back to them now and say apply for five kits I think we should give them money on the basis of what they've applied for they've seen our criteria they've seen the maximum grant that we can give them so I think don't hesitate give them this money and indicate that if they need more they can come back with another focused application Bill? Yeah I'm Joseph I'll ask you I mean we're in a period aren't we of supporting COVID related grant applications right now the one thing that concerns me is that the Arthur Rank Hospice and a lot of other charities like that could make a really good case for funding at every needy and I'm just a little bit concerned that we shouldn't be setting any kind of a precedent I mean I'm fully behind this you know yes yes I'll be happy to vote for this money but we do have to be a bit careful to find that you know our money will go down go to Arthur Rank and other big charities who can make a really good case every month and I just think we need to be careful about that that's all. Peter? Yeah I understand where Bill is coming from but overall the work that they seem to be doing is very very positive if it's a COVID related project then of course they have the opportunity to come back separately. Before I go to anything I would say is that they get a 12 month wait before they come back that's my only thing so my part of me is saying from what John London said with regards to two or three kits they were very meek I think that was the words that John used and now there are consumables within those packs for them to be able to carry on part of me says in listening to what you're saying there is to ask them to withdraw this application and come back next month with a list of everything that would be my other alternative to say rather than wait for a whole 12 months before they can come back because that's the rules that we stick by so and I appreciate what everybody said I really do, I really do but an infection can take someone at dam site earlier than they anticipated and I think this is where we're what we're facing at the moment so Jay? Yeah you've just answered my question so just letting Bill know that limits on how many times people can apply and the COVID grant scheme is probably only going to be open for one or two rounds but they could apply out of the COVID funding so we could invite them to apply for that if they felt they needed more and that would just be a one off Would that if them applying for the COVID would that because this is about the infection isn't it this is about perhaps a year in the infection or something like that where they want to take up a quick test so they can treat somebody who's on the end of life but the COVID response is going to be for getting people out and getting them back into society and helping to rebuild that whole process that's how I understood our COVID process in the moment so would we then be going against our own definition of how we're going to alter the funding scheme for these next couple of meetings Yeah I see what you're saying we haven't yet agreed exactly what we're doing with that and I'll explain my thoughts on that in the next section if that's alright Josh? Yeah nice work OK Claire? Yeah I'm getting confused now I think we're mixing two things up aren't we this is Ulter Rang Hospice which is a brilliant name for end of life care which is quite different from COVID completely different and so I think that I still think that we should judge this application on its own merits because if we don't we're then leaving ourselves open to criticism from other applications that we're not judging on the criteria or the information that we have before us shall you still come back? Yeah I just wanted to say that what I meant was that they shouldn't apply now for another 12 months if they have been reserved in their application and they actually really need to fix it if their workload has increased due to COVID recently then it may be that this could just give them another opportunity to make some rules so allow them to when we discuss them in a minute that's what I meant OK Put your hand down in Jay please OK then so I take it we're in agreement that we're going to fund what they've asked for you Yep OK thanks John Thank you very much Next up we have our final application a slightly more traditional community chest application from Linton Village Cricket Club they are a constituted community group we have all of the documentation required from them and it is very simply a £1,000 application towards nearly £4,000 of funding for a new set of collapsible cricket nets this is used by adults and children within the village of Linton they've got a first 16 second 16 and third 16 teams as well as two midweek teams it's a capital purchase it has full support from Councillor Batchelor and whilst the land owner for the area of the cricket pitches is Linton Parish Council Linton Parish Council are providing £2,000 of the nearly £4,000 cost to this and it is another one of those situations where the parish council owns and it's a peppercorn fee to another organisation so it's not really the parish council it's the operator of the land that the cricket field is on Thank you very much OK thank you Who'd like to speak first Sir I don't have anybody to speak I think in support of it I feel it's good exercise for people and I would encourage us to agree it Thank you, Claire and Bill Yeah, I support it they have the parish council support they have the ward member support and I agree with Sue it's a long established cricket club that's supported Lovely, Bill Yeah, I would have had a different idea a different view on this all together if the parish council hadn't stumped up half of the cost of it they've put a reasonable sum in so I'm more than happy to go with it OK, thank you. Claire do you want to go again? I think I've spoken Yeah, it's supporting Put it around then, can you? Yeah In that case then guys I think that's a yes unanimous please, Aaron Now, I think I've jumped the straight to John for the gender item number three gender item number four Jay, that's the bit you wanted to talk about with regards to the COVID relief and the recommendations Yeah, I thank Councillor Williams for the hand up this before we go on to that Oh, thank you, pardon John, sorry, I missed that Yeah, so on the last item can we invite the English cricket team to use it? Why do you think they need practice? I certainly do Yes they do John, if you could if you could send that letter to the they'd be quite handy I will put that on to the letter Thank you I have a really decent practice net in Linton Make sure the ward members know please Yeah Right, over to you Jay I'm sorry about this, I jumped through the thing, I've read it and then went straight to John London, over you Jay Thanks So yeah, we can have a good discussion on this now but in my opinion I think we need to try and keep things as simple as possible here I think we need to have this new approach to funding some groups to help with Covid recovery Aaron's kindly found out that Councillor Williams is able to award up to £5,000 per award under the Constitution So the proposal that we've come forward with instead of creating an entirely new grant scheme which could be quite onerous is to make some temporary adjustments to the current community and our first thoughts based on the last meeting were to maybe suggest awards of up to £2,000 but more if necessary and also allow parish councils to apply as well so that they don't get caught out by the current rule that restricts them from applying So if that wording is agreed that gives us the framework to operate within and then what we could do is we could provide applications to a certain committee so we could have a deadline for instance of a date that we agree about when these Covid related applications should come in by and then at one meeting we can have a look through them all it would probably be quite a lengthy meeting but I think it would be some really good projects we'd be funding and then if there's funding left we could then reopen it of grants the next month potentially so yeah the idea is that we make some changes to the current guidance to allow us to consider these new grants and then the crux of the work is all around the commons that we send out and how we word it and that's the thing that I think if we can agree the wording on a specific fee then we can have a good chat about how it's run and how it comes across to the community thank you Right who's got three speakers who's MC Oh Peter sorry I think I saw Peter's hand first then Claire then Sue So a couple of things from me I do agree with Jay's comments to try and keep it as simple as possible I would suggest a deadline because of the parish council cycles and they'll probably want to think about it to submit by the end of April I think we should say that the money has to be really should be spent you know within the next well ideally six months because it is a recovery based fund I think in terms of the again to keep it relatively simple I don't think we should set very hard and fast criteria as long as there's reasonable evidence that it is COVID related I mean it's not going to be a set of cricket nets you know it's going to be a community project or a set of activities which are there to support the elderly or young people young people for example have been hit extremely hard by COVID in all sorts in education in work so there may be projects that come forward supporting mental health work in youth for example so what I'm saying is that I think we should give the parishes the opportunity to apply by say the end of April and then try and implement those projects if possible within six months okay clear clear a meeting clear we should keep it simple have a look at all the applications that come in together at one meeting I think at the end of April I would say was too soon because for our eight villages I think we've got three parish councils that only meet every two months and apart from an annual meeting because they wouldn't be meeting in March and May so I think the end of April probably for some of them is too soon and I guess also possibly too soon for community groups that might be wanting to apply so I think we could get some really good very useful projects but I think we probably need to give them a bit more time Sue I wish I could find the papers you're all talking about page three and four it's under the community chest grant application funding it's the recommendations and it goes over into page four and in the reasons for I've just been through it it's the italics so I've got nothing my page three says nothing my page five says an application it's not in my papers I'm sorry about that and I've got two sets of papers God only knows why because you're special yeah I know but neither of them have got it in and I'm looking online to see whether I've missed it online but clearly I haven't can we put it on screen for Sue to read because it isn't long is it not a long time Aaron there you go there you go Sue it's just that bit there mate get your glasses on Susan I'll read it oh sorry other way buddy that's it I agree keep it simple yeah very simple I like that okay so we've had you're okay with that if you're finished with that Sue we come back off that if that's all right Aaron okay so we're looking at potentially May if you take into consideration what Claire said with regards to bi-monthly meetings and what have you for parishes so are we in agreement with that principle I think probably would be best since that nothing really is going to happen until more or less mid to end of May anyway and that's these dates are the very earliest I think we were told by the roadmap so there may be slippage if there's any blips and what have you along the way there may be slippage in that so um the six month spend that Peter suggested I think probably a very good idea everything's in place then by the end of but at least by Christmas if you like so with that obviously the mental health stuff is this Jay is this going to negate if someone comes to this the fund and goes for a specific COVID related grant does it still stop them or does it stop them then making an application for the community chest we probably might want to mention that or do we just leave that with John I think you're right I think we make a small alteration to allow them to or this can be an additional application this fund one additional application if that's okay okay and but not for COVID you can have one bite at each cherry but not two at one and I think you said Jay with regards to doing all this in one meeting so that would be handy so they've got to get their applications in by such and such date for the end of May meeting yeah yeah and the only thing I wanted to suggest on that is that we've got a grant advisory committee in for the 28th of May um could we have the closing date as maybe the 20th of May and then look at them on the 28th of May or did you mean to look at them in June just to be clear sorry June June is everybody your hands up again Claire yeah thank you I would prefer for June because some parish councils don't meet until the last week of the month so I think we should give them the maximum time to consider soon the only problem with that is that people will want to be starting to do any sort of covid recovery immediately that we're allowed on to a free rain as it were and I just wonder whether it's worth um looking at some of them early and and then those who apply late may um we can spend some more money on them I mean you know we can split the split the whole thing up but I think there will be people who want to make a start um at the beginning of June rather than waiting until July which is what would happen if we won't leave it till the June meeting but before I come to bill I suppose so you got um the only thing I would say so on that is the government have said that they anticipate that all of the stringent lockdowns will be uh lifted by the 21st of June I think it was if I recall um assuming that's everything goes swimmingly um which is which is great um you wouldn't be able to do most things because most things that are going to involve people is likely to be face to face which I think is probably where we're we're going to try and open up society again we probably don't want to do it by Zoom so it's probably going to be in the same space so I mean obviously there will be people who want to do Zoom because they're nervous and what have you but I suppose I'm guessing I'm actually thinking probably so that June I mean take the lead from Jay here and John um but I'm guessing that June will probably be better I reckon music gives everyone plenty of time to think about what they're doing get their applications in tweaking if necessary with John etc and then when we come to June we can go right here we are um who's next bill's next Peter actually just you know listening to what you just said Joe so I don't argue against that too strongly but I was going to say well if the thing is being slowed down by parish councils that don't meet for two months then maybe we should write to them directly and say you need to make a decision between meetings I just think that you know it's a shame if you know why does everyone have to wait um I take everything what the player is saying you know it does seem a little unfair on those parish councils but surely on an issue such as this where people want to get going and get their response in place that we ought to act as quickly as possible really that's a very good point can you Jay and John can you both have a think about that while we go to Peter please what Bill just said Peter um I'm afraid I think we're going too slow um you know this is this is a response fund we need to get on with this um there's a danger it's normal in life that wherever you have a large group you work at the pace of the slowest we need to work at the pace of the fastest I think and I think we need to get on with this I won't die in a ditch if the other members of the committee feel you have to wait till June to get everything in but I think we need to get on with this what would you what would be your preference Pete May the latest by the end of May I think we need to crack on with this okay right then then I suppose the obvious thing here is that if John and Jay write to every single parish council to say this is going to be happening we need your applications by such and such date in May because the the committee this committee will meet at the end of May to make a decision sort yourselves out guys it would be the simplest way forward wouldn't it if that then that then addresses everybody knowing about it directly knowing because all the clerks will have been written to okay Jay your next in clear response to Councillor Ellington's comment about applications as they came in I suddenly thought all that might be a good idea we'll just add them on and separate the pots and just agree to me each meeting but then I fear if we did do that then we could use the pot up before the deadline so I do think we should have it as a kind of round funding if that's alright and I do think the sooner the better so I think May would be pretty spot on okay thanks Jay Claire you're getting good if I was the one who was going for a later date I'm happy to go along with those who want to go ahead with an earlier date but in I would ask that Jay and John in writing to parish councils make sure that you say to them to let their community groups know of the existence and underline block capitals that they put out the information to their community groups and also let ward members know before you send it to parish councils so that they can let their community groups know as well because it is quite a tight deadline I appreciate what Peter and others have said but we probably need to do some work to make sure everybody who can benefit from it gets to know okay brilliant thank you Gremville thank you chair just to say it's good to me last night we approved a change to our recommendations to ask that cabinet support applications for COVID related help for our communities to come through this committee so I would be delighted if you would make it as early as possible the activities as you will see from the papers that went to scrutiny last night and that were included in the annex just demonstrate what an incredible support and what amazing things these volunteers have done and anything that we can do to make sure they carry on and keep going and give everyone a lift as we come out of this dreadful pandemic would be brilliant and I'm most grateful to you all for your wonderful comments thank you thank you Gremville Jay sorry just as a last point do you agree that we don't I don't think we need to stipulate the exact or do we need to stipulate the exact amount of funding it looks like we're going to have around about 40,000 pounds left because this is we've got one more meeting haven't we we've got March no two meetings we've got March and April's meeting if things carry on like they do we're looking at four or five applications and we've got about 10,000 maximum so that would leave 30 I mean my view is that maybe we don't put a figure on it and then just use what we have left yeah yeah and because Gremville was so nice about what he said he's obviously got some of his budget we'll have and you can bring that some of that over and then obviously there's John Williams we can try and mug him as well and see what happens there sorry I had a call from my leader my lease right okay all right guys so Jay and John you're okay with that then with the business one question I will ask I had my hand up oh a bigger problem Pete gone yeah I just wanted to comment on on what Jay was saying provided that we just retain a reserve to fulfill the normal ordinary grants if I call them the ordinary grants so if we maintain a reserve to that but then use as much as we can within our budget if John is happy with that to make the response it's very timely and it would be a very good message to the parish councils now is your chance they've all done great work as Gremville said now here's some money to help you with the recovery great stuff who's that who's just put their hand up sorry Jay that was me I just want to clarify so our office is going to set the exact date for the closing of applications for this grant so obviously we've said that they're going to notify the parish councils and make sure they're aware we've not set a specific date are we comfortable for officers to agree that based on how long it will take them to review the applications before May's committee or did you want to set an official date no leave it with the officers because I know the workload they've got to do and I think actually closing date is one thing but if we've got money left if we don't get the response that we think we're going to get and I'm sure we can go out again and do whatever the obvious elephant in the room is that with the community chess grants we always like the parish councils to match fund now the fact is that the parish council have been working their socks generally speaking with the code of belief as Grenville was rightly saying I'll be going to forget that on this occasion and just say let's run with the money as the application comes in John what would you want John Williams what would you want on that one I I mean I go along with what you're saying really I think we need to we need to do this as soon as possible and and that might mean having to make decisions outside of the meetings now what was the with regards to parish councils at the moment when we have a community chess application coming we look very favourably on an application that has match funding from the parish I don't think we can do that in this case no I think that's because they've already been working on this themselves and doing whatever they're doing so it's kind of true I just thought I'd ask the question as the elephant in the room because of right Jay you had your hand up to think yeah I think you just answered the question to be honest that's not an actual rule setting stone it's just something that we try and restore so these ones I don't I don't think we should look too close to whether they're funding it or not so it's a different type of that's perfect alright guys so then we are with all the bits and pieces we've said so we're looking at the back end of May officers to decide when the closing date will be for those applications officers are going to write to every parish council to inform them of that and ask them to go out to community groups as Claire said and also to inform members prior to that going out I think probably we could probably ask Gareth and the team to put it out on the usual social media channels as well so that's we can cover all the bases and I don't think if I've forgotten anything I'm sure you're fitting the gaps but I think that's really where we're heading in it so if we're all in agreement with that then yeah so do we need to vote on this Aaron please yes for the records right so that's the recommendation then yeah exactly yes thank you so on page three it's the page three you haven't got so would you like to put that up for Sir Aaron please so basically it'd be the recommendation with the alterations and the information that we've just we've just been discussing with Jay and John you might want to come down a bit I think can it no it's fine leave it where it is lovely so what wording would you like Aaron for the recommendation sorry just trying to so just to say that that you recommend to the lead cabinet member to alter the community chest grant scheme to allow for co-related applications £2,000 actually the only thing that I would like the committee to decide on is whether or not if an organisation has applied for a community chest grant in the last 12 months whether or not they would still be allowed to apply for this again yeah Jay covered that didn't he said that was okay you can only do one of each one bite of each cherry but not two of the same then basically just the committee recommends to cancel Williams that that is the scheme to be taken forwards and I think we were going to we're going to drop the £2,000 Jay I think we put in there that £2,000 will be what we put out on comms but if you wish to fund more then you can do so at the committee meeting can I say chair I would be comfortable with that rather than not have a limit that's fine I'm happy with the limit okay great stuff in that case ladies and gentlemen members what Aaron said will be the recommendation to John Williams the member are we all in agreement agreed yes agreed okay thank you Aaron can you take the screen back thanks right then we are now we're okay with that John you're done aren't you thank you very much mate have your leads to leave please chair indeed thank you very much indeed for your time superb okay guys page 17 which is the zero carbon grants who's leading on this one is this Jay me sorry I'm at a bigger point where you go Emma okay so I would like to talk about the zero carbon communities grant scheme round 3 2021-22 as some background information as you well know the zero carbon communities grant scheme supports community groups to promote behavioural change and reduce reliance on fossil fuels and forms part of the council's zero carbon strategy to support the district to make the transition to net zero carbon by 2050 so today I'd like to invite the committee to provide feedback on the changes zero carbon communities grant scheme in preparation for the launch of round 3 and ask the committee to confirm that these changes do not require a decision to be approved by cabinet as they do not significantly affect the policies and criteria of the grant scheme the key change is being proposed to the grant and its scoring criteria as well as alternative funding options are shown in appendix A of the report Aaron have you managed to bring that one up it might be easier if we have that on the screen at the same time is that so can you not see that much sorry yep can everybody see that yeah that will be in the appendix A of your report as well so you could refer to that so this year instead of inviting applications under the three themes community building tree planting and cycling as we had in round 2 this time we're proposing the applications invited to projects under two specific main themes and an extra general theme for exceptional projects with each theme being allocated a percentage of the total grant funds so the themes we're proposing this year are community buildings at an allocation of 30% of the total grant fund tree planting and nature at 40% again and the other exceptional projects at 20% this year's proposal has been devised using the learning from rounds 1 and 2 of the grant as well as feedback from officers, applicants and members of both the grants and climate environment advisory committees it also takes into consideration the number of applications received for each theme in round 2 we feel that having two main themes is helpful to applicants as it provides guidance onto the kind of projects likely to be successful and the third theme is to allow applicants to make a case for really good projects that don't fit into the two main themes but still deliver on community engagement and carbon production energy surveys will still be available free of charge on a first come first serve basis but funded outside of the grants and it's hoped that these changes will make the application process simpler and less restrictive for our applicants and also help the scoring process by introducing measurable benefits while still promoting behavioural change and reduced reliance on fossil fuels thank you and please let me know if you have any questions Emma before we go to questions if you wouldn't mind on page 18 now I just need to check with Sue yeah, so page 18 if you've got the same page 18 but perhaps you should have halfway down reasons for recommendations and above that key change is proposed which is under section 5 paragraph 5 yes perfect Emma, you said about the two main themes with the additional one in section 5 it says three themes community buildings tree and planting I just wonder whether that's it's a small point but we have two themes with an additional two main themes and then one smaller category for those exceptional projects it's three in total okay then I just wonder if that sentence could be tweaked to reflect what you just said yeah I think that would be quite pertinent if you want yep okay I've got a hand up and I can't see who it is sorry who's got a hand up I've got a hand against number 5 is that you Pippa? that's me, yeah just before we go on if I may because we've got different people coming in here we've got Councillor Pippa Halings who's the chair of the zero carbon climate committee I forgot what it was and Councillor Jeff Clark who's the vice chair of that committee we have Emma Dyer who's the lead officer for climate tell me if I'm wrong and Rebecca I am embarrassed to say that I I've heard your name but that's about the limit I do apologise would you like to introduce yourself Rebecca? Hi, yeah I'm Rebecca Wainworth I'm a waste policy manager is my title but I also look after the climate and environment team which includes Emma and the reason I'm here thank you very much that's perfect so with members permission Claire before I come to you I'd like to go to Councillor Halings first as the chair of that committee because I would wager that she has some many amendments and bits and pieces that might want to be put into this is that okay? yeah that's fine over to you Pippa always wanted to stick my or I was trying to be polite and Emma had given me the chance earlier which I didn't take up so Emma this is very much busy and can I just say fantastic Emma I've just come from the sustainable farming film event which was the second in our climate and environment fortnight series over 430 people registered we had 300 attending watching the film it was chaired by John Shropshire chairman of G's agriculture it was incredible so inspiring and we were able to sort of close it south come saying we're not district not directly involved in this but actually indirectly it is really really important to what we do on the land around the district so well done Emma and team for making that happen so yes the couple of little tweaks that I would like to make and I do agree that I don't think this needs huge changes that need to go through cabinet is the main recommendation but I did and it was the first one is around what do we mean by community engagement and if we look at that table which is on page 23 and I agree that we need to make clear of what we're expecting among buildings it says in the second in the second column if successful how will you publicize and I think at the beginning of all this I think it's it is more than just publicizing so I've been through the community network the zero carbon community network which has replaced the sustainable parish renewable energy partnership and it's really gaining a lot of ground and recognition a lot are looking at parish level and community level at either climate action plans or how they encourage parishes to do to look at the whole thing so I would suggest here that it's not just if successful at the end but they show evidence of how this is part of a wider engagement around planning to reduce emissions now that could be one meeting of the parish council that they've called to do it that or it could be like many are thinking of looking at the carbon footprint of their parish or a community but it just shows that this was planned as part of looking at something a bit bigger and it's not just sort of a chance to change you know something within one building so and then at the end yes publicize so I would just say evidence that this is shown to be planned as part of a larger parish or community effort to reduce emissions or to change behavior and then the publication that's a very small thing but I think it matters I do think it matters secondly I would like to see in the the tree planting and nature criteria I would like to add a bullet point of an example we do have examples there and the example I would like to add is that it would be the create creation or enhancement of community nature area so there are many communities that are looking at not just wood creating woods or planting trees that they are looking at sort of either buying acquiring or creating or enhancing a small area you know within the area that can be for nature and for public enjoyment so I'd like to use that as an example now obviously we can't give the capital in expenditure but there is the nature recovery toolkit which is available for local communities to think about how they can do things like that and how they increase education and management and planning so if we could include that as a bullet point and then finally in the other I'd like to include as another example community renewable energy I know that just examples are not criteria but it just sort of helps people to think about you know the ways you can do and then finally in the other as well I'm not sure how quite how we do this but we did have Cambridge to apply for a fund a grant to help us draw the best practice from all of the zero carbon grants and advise communities and they're coming up with the carbon tracker and the zero net zero team I think PECT which is the the Peterborough energy and conservation group is also doing this around nature recovery with parishes and you know and I would like to see if they would like to apply to us to do the same where it's not officers that are then sort of having to do with all the parishes that are doing the tree planting and the nature recovery but there's an organisation that's already set up to do that which is already using the nature recovery toolkit and they could apply to us to then support any of the grantees and get best practice lessons, get it so that we can share this in our networking events and sort of be another example Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Yeah. I mean, those are those. That's great. Okay. Claire could you put your hand down please? Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Joeson. I'm wanting to jump in because I'm going to have to leave reasonably soon. Okay. Thank you very much Emma and thanks Pippa for those really useful comments and in fact actually my comments take up what Pippa's just been saying. I think it's really important to put examples in particularly of community engagement because I can think of two applications that would turn down because they didn't have enough community engagement but they didn't understand what was meant by community engagement and also they were asking for something where community engagement was actually quite difficult. So for using that as one of the criteria we have to be sure that people can get community engagement and we need to give them some examples of that so that they're not penalised on that. That's one thing. The second thing is I wasn't quite sure from reading through the papers whether you're recommending that we go for a lower maximum the £7,000 maximum. You're not recommending that. No, that was just an example. Okay, good. I'm not in favour of that. My third point is for the building community building. I think in some cases there might be a bit more hand-holding needed there because it can actually be quite complicated. So it might be that you offer to provide some more advice or in fact offer to put people in contact with those parishes that have already had funding and have already been successful in that area and can indicate how they were successful what they were trying to do. So just some more sort of engagement between those people who have been successful and those people who are applying. And then finally on the deadline it's too soon I think because is it the end of June? Yes, that's what we're talking about. I think that's too soon because some of these things take quite a lot of effort and even if you're applying for I mean I know from here they were successful in getting their money for the specific green project that they wanted to do but even with someone who a retired academic who's used to putting in grant applications it took a long time to put that together so I think give enough time. I think there's advantages to sort of that and obviously having it in the summer because obviously in the summer period some people go on holiday and they're not perhaps focused on sort of making applications and also one other thing that is quite valid is a lot of people might want to apply for energy improvements and would like to get these measures put in by the winter period so if they get their funding a little bit early it gives them time for this winter coming to be able to make those get those measures put in place but I take on board what you're saying as well obviously. Yeah okay I would say the end of July but that's just my opinion I'm sure others will have a different opinion. Can I just also bring up you were saying about the hand holding side of things so what we are offering like I said is the energy surveys and this year we're having PECTS coming out to provide those energy surveys and that is an advice service in itself so giving people either options and some of the reports they do give to the um parishes are quite informative as to what their options are so that you know that perhaps might sort of solve that one. Thank you. Okay Jeff you're up next. I just recall the last funding round we had an example where there's a question mark over whether accepting this grant would for a heat pump would rule you out of applying for the government's RHI initiative so and there's a broader point here I think that I wondered whether we should have a section covering sort of the additionality I mean for example I think you can apply to the Woodland Trusts and they'll give you as many trees as you want for nothing so it's kind of perhaps two points one showing that there is an additionality there and you're not kind of overlapping with other government funding or funding from another source but also I think it'd be helpful just in case you don't get selected if in the application pack there's a brief sort of summary of the grant landscape because it might be for example you're unsuccessful and right in front of your face there's another way of achieving the same aim that they wouldn't know about because I think parish council is really I mean they don't have the time resource to know about all the funding that's out there so I think that would be a really useful extra thing that we could do while we're bringing this to their attention I also had some concerns over time scales really as Councillor Daunton mentioned but it does seem to me that somehow we need to find a way of publicizing this better because I certainly had even though we'd mentioned it Councillor Batcher and I in parish council meetings in our reports we still had a couple saying well I didn't know that this was happening and so well yes you'll have to leave it till next year then and I suppose given that one of the criteria is that you've got to demonstrate community engagement then you almost need an extra couple of months to get that in community engagement so that you can demonstrate it's there in terms of the criteria I don't know how we how we actually sort of solve that problem also on page 24 so the opening date is this towards the bottom page the opening date was going to be first of April okay because I missed that so the closing date would be 30th of June that was okay and I didn't quite understand right at the bottom of the page what the sentence separate out allocation of funding actually means but I'll explain that sorry that's on the additional changes for that one yeah yeah so yeah that's the additional change stream and funders that was in the previous round but this year we would like to separate it out so that each one's got a sort of set amount you see what I'm saying and depending on how many applications we've got obviously we could potentially move it from one theme to another but it all depends on the applications that we do receive okay great and I've just got a couple of other points under sections A, B and C on page 28 sort of a third of the way down energy conservation measures we didn't mention draft proofing which is the the kind of the easiest thing you can do so you shouldn't really be putting insulation unless you kind of stopped all the drafts that's a minor point and I just on section B I'm really inspired I thought it's fantastic this morning actually but unfortunately I had to leave early to sort of come here but I'm definitely going to watch recording and what I kind of got from that was that it used to be especially if you've got a sort of towny background you might sort of regard farmers as a rather sort of closed community revolving around you know young farmers and going shooting guy what I got from this morning was that there's a kind of real willingness to the farmers start reaching out so I thought maybe one of the criteria we could use here would be where communities are sort of building bridges for the farming community because obviously really there's a lot of information that can be exchanged between local sort of greener activists and farmers and also the farming community have the sort of capability to bring scale to a lot of these things and I was just saying to Pippa earlier that I've had a couple of my parishes in this local recent wet weather complaining about flooding caused by runoff from fields and I said to both both parish council meetings have you talked to the farmers about using cover crops to sort of increase the water holding capacity of these sort of sloping fields and I was surprised that the parish council none of them actually recognised the term cover crop which is sort of quite surprised to me so I think there's quite a lot that we can do especially in the more rural parishes getting that dialogue going so I wonder if you could use that to encourage that OK you said about the unsuccessful applicants so last year the ones that were unsuccessful particularly the tree planting ones we did in the email that went out to them saying they were unsuccessful we did actually give them examples of where else they could go for example AstraZeneca we're looking for areas with the tree planting and so we did give them quite a few suggestions as well and some of those actually have been taken forward so that's something that we really want to encourage again with a community chest as well we want to sort of say if you've got a smaller project perhaps you know you might want to go down that route as well OK thank you if you're done Geoff I'll go to Peter next thank you I think the enhancements that are proposed in here by Pippa and Emma and Geoff in the offices are very good I think there's just one observation and I'm not sure how we measure this other than to ask for a comment in the submission so much of this is about community engagement and I think that when people are making their submission even if it's to write you know a few lines or a paragraph to say look my community engagement is going to be X I think it was was it Bayborough recently which is one of my parishes and they just had huge community engagement for what they were doing and so to get the biggest bang for our buck as it were I think the projects have been fantastic overall but there's a huge variation in the awareness and the engagement to the community in the projects and it would be nice somehow to say to Parish A versus Parish B well Parish A asked for £5,000 but that community engagement was you know through the roof whereas Parish B was asking £5,000 and very few people were sort of aware or necessarily involved in it so we're still on a learning process and I think that is part of the learning and we've got such fantastic examples now to show parishes where where you know grants made have been successful and then the community engagement has been enormous so I just wanted to think about that a little bit more and like Claire I'm sorry I have another meeting to go to 1130 Joe's Thank you Pete, not a problem that's really grateful, thank you for your input before I go to Martin I'm Grenville an apology Grenville Chamberlain is the member for Haldwick and also the chair of the scrutiny and overview committee and I didn't ask him to introduce himself when he spoke so I apologise there Grenville but hopefully I've undone that damage Absolutely, no apology necessary Thank you, Martin before you go on with your point could you introduce yourself and where you represent as well for these things The Climate Change and Environment Committee I'm one of the Vice-Chairs and so I'm commenting from the Climate Change and Environment Committee to say that I'm generally supportive of the changes I agree very much with Councillor Haynes about the I do apologise for interrupting you we can barely hear you Is there somebody typing or tapping or something Maybe I've been knocking myself off the computer Can you hear me now? Absolutely I'm Councillor Martin Kahn I'm the Vice-Chair of the Climate Change and Environment Committee I have two Vice-Chairs I was coming to comment that I'm very much happy with the changes I think they beneficial In particular I like the idea of having additional projects that gives the opportunity for people to be imaginative we never know what people are going to bring up I think it's useful to have this provision and also the comment mentioned by Councillor Haynes about the need for involving work on managing nature conservation sites nature sites I think that's important because some of the sites may not be tree planting areas for instance soils themselves are very good stores of carbon sites which enable different habitats to develop with store carbon and also very valuable so we need to look at a wide range of possibilities give me the option for wide range possibilities so that's generally what I would like to say Thank you Martin We'll go to Sue next please then Pippa Thank you I'm no climate expert that's the beginning but my concern is that last year we had 56 applications and only managed to fund 17 of them and I really feel that in order to spread this word better we may need to look at giving more money or giving more criteria around how much people should ask for so that we can spread it a little wider and whilst I recognize that some of the building projects are obviously more expensive and need more support and they are maybe the prime focus of our attention the little amounts the thousand and two thousands really bring communities in and get them involved and so I would be asking if we couldn't look at the hundred thousand and say well we as you've done with the different elements given 40% community and 40% nature and so on we couldn't look at that 100,000 and say well we'll give 60% to one or 50 and 50 or something that would give us a few more small opportunities to get communities involved thank you thank you Sue I think that's something that would be really good I think with Emma and Aaron to look at what were those 56 that were presented because I had the same sense what we don't want to do is kind of frustrate people and that's a huge amount of effort that's gone in as well but we also know that if you're really giving out the small we don't actually then get somebody which has a bigger impact so it's the balance like you've said and we perhaps make sure that we've got the same selection criteria that helps them know that and us to know that as well so perhaps if we can just look a bit more again at sort of what were the 56 that came and what was the balance around that that could help us think about some kind of criteria in that way and I think it also links back to a couple of comments that have come up and the zero carbon community network or partnership and I think we do need to go even bigger and bolder with this it's the way where I've heard from so many who said that they were both inspired and got a lot of information about different grants that are available when they came to those events and we can hold them virtually obviously but I've also met a lot of people who didn't know about them and didn't know about the partnership as well as we've been going around so it's how we can all as members and even more comms because the comms has been fantastic the newsletters are fantastic but it's just getting that even further out there for everybody to know about and I think those are the events where we can publish them about learn about what worked in a grant application you know so that's a good one which were the ones that got why were they successful so you can come in and get before you start doing all the work on applying you can come and hear about that and we could even film it and so that they can have access to it if they couldn't get to the event then click on and hear others who applied what did it take to apply why was it successful and what have they done with it and what would some of be issues yep that's great Pipa you just muted yourself that's probably a good idea thank you Pipa Bill you're next and then we go to John Williams alright well first of all I'm sorry I'm a bit distracted I've got a very sick dog here I might have to go a short notice in a minute my point is that the amount of money that's available in this scheme is relatively small and I'd like to see it spread across a bigger area as we can so rather than sort of spending money large amounts on single projects I mean you mentioned community or communal renewable energy schemes well the amount that we can ever fund for that well it's going to be minuscule compared with the total cost so really you know I think we should be we should be concentrating on the grassroots here and really so I forgive the pud it's not one lens and be a pun but really you know really trying to encourage communities parish councils to become more green by and spreading small amounts across a wider area that's my view thank you John Williams I'll come back to you in a second just picking up on on this last point because you know picked up by by Bill and and Claire I wonder whether we could have minimum funding pots for the different size schemes so that you know I am aware you know so for example we could say 50% of the fund would be available for schemes over 10,000 pounds and then the other 50% would be for schemes under 10,000 pounds I mean just as a way to ensure that the big schemes don't take all the money and I was a bit conscious of this not so much last time but the first time round that we had some very good but very expensive schemes and they basically took the most of the money and we didn't have enough money then to give to some other schemes that just dropped out that actually should have also been funded but we just didn't have the money left so I think maybe we ought to look at having some minimum levels of for the different scheme sizes the other thing I was going to the other two things I was going to say was on the community energy surveys and we had 10 this year which is really good should we be giving them some sort of priorities if they then come to us and say can we we've got a scheme based on that that we'd like funding for should they not you know sort of given a put to the top given that they've gone to the effort of getting an energy survey that we ought to recognise that in some way when they then apply for funding and then finally this business about the deadline yeah I take Claire's point because I mean we Claire and I have seven parishes and we've got a couple that are very good but I have to say the majority struggle and from having an idea to actually applying takes months I'm sorry it takes months it's pulling teeth and to suggest that people have to put their bids in by the end of June this year and when now for the fence and purposes in March it ain't going to happen I'm sorry you're not going to get the quality of bid with all the community engagement that we're looking for if we only give them two or three months to get their act together it's going to take longer than that so we really need to think about that I appreciate the argument that we'd like to get some of these schemes up and running before the winter particularly the energy ones but I think we have to accept what we've got and if we're relying on parishes to submit bids as well as other people and this comes back to isn't it the issue about if you're already geared up and you're talking about people in Peterborough if you're already geared up and you're in the business you're going to be able to put in a really good bid if you're a parish council of five members or seven members you don't have the expertise you don't have that professional behind you and you're going to struggle you might well have a really good scheme but you won't be able to express it as well as an environmental organisation because you've not done that work so I am a bit concerned and maybe we somehow give parishes longer to get their bid soon we make that we say to people who's business it is we need to get your bid in by the end of June and then we can start processing them and we say to the parishes we'll give you until the end of July so that you've got a bit more time to get your act together I don't know but it does seem that we and again this has came out last time that I've thought parishes and small community groups were at a disadvantage against some of the other well-organised environmental groups that's what I've got to say I think I mean potentially maybe we could do it from April till September again or have it over five months potentially I don't know if that would just for everybody to make it simple have it over a longer period everybody could apply and have more time but again the winter period thing and the tree planting season it might affect that but it's just another option I think having one deadline if at all is the easiest option I think September might be too late but I think having the cutoff a little bit later than what's proposed we don't want to disadvantage anyone that's not what we're here for we want to give everyone an equal shot so we can easily extend the deadline without compromising the ability to then turn around the assessment and get people the funds that they need I think the end of July is probably good because most parishes don't meet in August so if you made it September you'd find that they'd put it off go on holiday and then come back and then realise they've only got a couple of weeks to sort it out so if you made it the end of July I think that would be more reasonable Is there a compromise position where we do something like you suggested John in terms of 50% for big projects and 50% for small projects and look at the small projects which may of necessity be the smaller parishes that you'll say may take some problems getting big ideas together take them at the end of June and leave the bigger projects to look at in September I personally think it might just be simpler just to have the deadline for everybody it's the same otherwise it might confuse certain groups that's just my opinion and also you know from our experience we had one of our parishes went through the fall with the electric bike scheme went through the fall amount and they certainly needed the time to organise that and I think as well as it comes to mind there's another scheme that so I don't think that really does apply so I think doesn't necessarily follow that the smaller schemes are parishes some parishes are put in quite big schemes but I say that's just to bear in mind that I think you've got to remember the capacity of the people you're working with and when it comes to parish councils you know you've got to accept these people do it for nothing they've got other things to do and you have to give them time they don't have the clerks aren't there to produce this sort of thing which is admin staff and leave it on the shoulders of the average parish councillor you just have to give them time I agree so I think what I'm hearing is that if we say for example tender to lie as a deadline for everybody given the August the parish councils aren't meeting anyway and that also does allow for those which are because the tree planting you have to actually make sure you've got the tree planting season and if you do want to put in those improvements to the buildings before the colder season which isn't necessarily December it's after December isn't it now with our changes but both of those would work and I just want to come back again and I agree with spreading the money I think the other thing and we talked about this right at the very beginning when we made the decision to increase the amounts to the 15,000 there are some which really prove that they can be really inspirational and change things if they're that bit more money and it's not a lot of you know it's actually not a huge amount compared with some of the things they're doing it encourages them to go for co-funding as well I just want to mention pick up clues that Bill said about the community renewables and and as I said neither in the sort of the native areas or in the community are we talking about capital expenditure here what we're talking about is the ability to perhaps leverage some co-funding bigger co-funding or to bring in some of the the advice that they need technical advice consultancy advice just to let you know on the community renewables initiative before they feed in tariff mechanism was closed down there were about 45 new projects a year over the last couple of years that's gone down to two a year and it's all about the smart export guarantee and what do they do around it it's more about bringing somebody in that can actually technically advise them in the start-up or leveraging that to enable those to happen and they would then be raising their own money to the shareholders and stakeholders in that so it's just opening up an area that really needs some opportunity and what they're saying they need is that technical assistance that the ability to bring somebody in usually or to leverage some co-funding to leverage on the on the environmental organisation John the only thing I was saying on that one was it's we need to not for us to be sharing the lessons and getting the word out there and the sort of the people to get examples of this we need an organisation that can visit them give advice but can also bring all of that and write up the score maybe Pippa we can do that outside of this outside of the grant fund well I think if we want to do that then let's take those on that organisation on to do that piece of work and not use our grant scheme for it so that's what we kind of talked about kind of the last year I think we never managed to work out in terms of council procurement how we do that but if we can I think that would be fantastic and take it out of the grant it shouldn't be a grant funding for it yeah I mean when the paper comes well it would have to go to but as part of this we could I'm sure the officers would include a recommendation that we employ that company to do what you want that organisation to do what you've said and to do a you know an asset survey or whatever of our green assets in the district that people are doing not as part of the of the grant scheme but as a separate piece of work to support the grant scheme yeah well anything that doesn't mean that this has to go for a decision I'm not sure I'll get advice to the officers but I'm not sure that may have to go to Cabinet it's a procurement issue yeah maybe we can take it separately but this can be a decision of this committee no I'm not suggesting it's a decision of this committee but it's certainly something that we need to work out so John just to be clear you and Pippa are both saying then so Pippa's big request here is that this piece of work now that's being presented by Emma and Coe is approved today so that can go ahead with the minor changes that we've said I think back in July rather than June etc and all the other bits and pieces and then any amendments for procurement and what have you to go through Cabinet for approval for the taking those funding outside of that it may not need to go through Cabinet but I don't understand that can be left between you and I don't want that to hold up this but I think that should be dealt with separately to this money out of the zero grant scheme to fund well in effect to our consultants to do a piece of work for us okay thank you I've got no more hands up at the moment Emma and Rebecca would you like to come back and if you've got any other points you need to say Pippa can you put your hand down please I just wanted to bring your attention in Appendix A you're talking about the funding that's available and obviously some of the projects might be requesting £15,000 but we are actually recommending that people that are asking for more than £5,000 that they do actually have an element of part funding in there so that obviously the money that we're providing is actually going to be somebody else as well to help their projects bring them forward so that's just a way that helps the sort of smaller organisations and smaller parishes that have got not much money and maybe not be able to raise the funds to sort of part fund they don't necessarily have to do that and also you talked about the 17 projects that we awarded this year out of the 56 in total just again in addition to the two community building ones that we did fund again there's the additional 10 energy surveys as well so technically it would be £27,000 that we did award out of the 56 because it's still they did apply through the grant process but they didn't actually get the money to pay for those surveys they didn't come through the grant funds so it sounds 17 doesn't sound much but if you consider the energy surveys we did fund more okay thank you Emma Rebecca do you have anything to say I don't have anything else to say other than thank you for all the feedback okay then so if I can summarise quickly Emma you've heard what people have said especially with Pippa and Jeff and their bits and pieces in there Sue's a bit about the splitting of the money I'm assuming that that money is going to be it's going to be judged because of the numbers that we're actually asking for the higher level of grant application in my view that's the bit that I've been confused about actually is that bit that Sue said about splitting the pot so have we got any comment on that one John and Emma well as I said you know maybe one way around ensuring that the smaller schemes get you know those that are lower down on the ranking get a chance is to limit the amount of money available to those with the big schemes but I don't know I mean that you know that may not be a practical way of doing it but it's the only way I can see that we can fairly discriminate in favour of positively discriminating favour of smaller schemes to make sure that they get a chance is to do something like that okay that's the conundrum for you Emma and Rebecca right okay guys in that case if we've got nothing further to say on this one and I'd just like to say thank you to Piper and Jeff for coming along and Marty who's now since left but for putting the points across on it and the little tweets I might have very grateful thank you and I think it's lovely to see officers and that's a superb job Emma and Rebecca thank you very much indeed absolutely right so pay 17 of the agenda is the recommendations it's recommended the grant committee 18 review the proposed changes the zero requirement communities grant fund for 21 22 that's set out in table one of the appendix A of this report and number two provide feedback to the proposed changes and number three confirm that changes do not significantly affect the policies and criteria of the grant scheme so I'm assuming for number three Aaron we're okay with that we haven't affected this in any way that it has to go elsewhere other than here and so that's okay he's okay right good so in that case then members are proposed then that we've we've done our job and that we accept the recommendations as per the agenda everybody happy with that shout and order if you're not okay thank you very much indeed in that case then that's as on the sheet then Aaron thank you right excuse me next meeting is the end of March then Aaron yeah next meeting 26 26 yeah okay right thank you very much indeed thank you officers Emma Rebecca it's brilliant Aaron Liam somewhere in the dark mists of the technology somewhere wherever he is and thanks to the committee thanks to John for putting up with us hopefully we've we've done you proud again John yeah you have yeah no grief you can just tick everything because we are the best committee obviously to spend just just put a little punt in there guys for a little bit extra next year okay okay in that case then I think we're done so thank you very much indeed Aaron can you kill the feed before everyone goes so that we know that we're offline