 This call is now being recorded. OK. All right, welcome back. We just started with understanding a little bit about what counseling is. We looked at some basic tenets of counseling. We're going to be looking at two more portions now, just certain elements of a Christian counselor and certain principles in counseling that you need to keep in mind. This is fairly simple. The core elements of a Christian counselor is fairly simple, but we'll just go through that slide a little in detail. So the first one is that a Christian counselor needs to be spiritually mature. In 1 Timothy 3, 6, it writes that the one who watches over souls ought not to be a novice. That means ought not to be someone who is newly come in as a believer, but not someone who's newly converted and instructed, but someone who is more seasoned. So the one who watches over souls should not be like an amateur. They should be spiritually mature, should have walked with the Lord for some time, rarely experienced, and also helped others. So that maturity of life and of living is important. The second one should be grounded in scripture. The person who is a Christian counselor should be grounded in the scripture. As John 1717 says, teach them your word which is truth. Sanctify them by your word, which is truth. So the person who is a Christian counselor should be involved in regular reading of scripture, in understanding, memorizing, living by scripture. Next is they should be prayerful. They should be one who continues to devote themselves in prayer, as Colossians 4.2, devote yourselves to prayer with an alert mind and a thankful heart. Just bringing all of the things that they may be dealing with in counseling situations in prayer. Next one is they should be a giver of hope. Proverbs 1312 reads, hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a dream fulfilled is a tree of life. So them to be able to give hope, you can only give hope if you are filled with hope. You cannot give somebody hope if you feel you can't give something you don't have. And we know the hope that does not disappoint us, but we know that God loves us and he's given us the Holy Spirit and fills our hearts with love so that we in turn can help and support others. They should be someone who are activators of change. What does that mean? Someone who is able to bring people into conversation, bring people into really exploring their way of life so that they can put on the new nature that is created by God. And you could go back and read some of these scriptures where the scripture talks about the Holy Spirit renewing our thoughts and our attitudes, being able to put on that new creation that is created to be like God. So we need to be that activator of change, from them moving them from that place of sin to a place of active change. As a counselor, we should be able to make a practice of scripture at every area or at every problem area that you may encounter as part of your counseling sessions. But James 122 reads, don't listen just to God's word. You must do what it says. Otherwise you are only fooling yourself. So as a believer, as a counselor yourself, you practice scripture, you practice whatever it says, especially in the areas that there are problems. Next is we need to be compassionate. Just as Jesus was, you see how Jesus reached out to people being moved with compassion. And he touched people, healed people out of the compassion that was there within him. And the last one is the need to use wisdom, to be able to be in the fear of the Lord, because that is foundational to wisdom, so that we can operate from a place of wisdom even as we are counseling. Knowing what to say when, what not to say when, being able to lead people in the right form of questions, in the right form of direction is using that wisdom. Now, all of this comes as we build ourselves in the Word, as we build ourselves in the knowledge of the Word. All right. The next we are going to look at its certain principles of counseling. These are very important because these are like, when you put up a tent, you put pegs on a tent. It's on those, you put those stands on a tent when you put a tent, because that's where the tent holds. So similarly, every principle is something that is foundational to the certain profession. So we will look at some of it that is, that's important for us to know. The first one is what we call as individualization. I know these sound like big words, but for each of these principles, I've put certain examples so that we know what we mean by this. So let's look at the example. It's a young couple has just had a newborn baby, and they realize that the child is physically challenged. The husband being physically challenged himself is quite calm and composed, an acceptance of the reality, whereas the wife is troubled and very distressed at the thought of a differentially able child. Okay. So you understood? It's a couple who has a baby. The husband also has a physical disability. So he's quite composed having a child like that, but the wife is very, very troubled. Okay. So what do generally people do when you are in a situation like this? What is the advice they would give the mother when she's so distressed? It's probably say something, look at your husband, he's so strong you should be like your husband. Isn't it? Nina was thinking of something big. Yeah. So that's exactly when you see your husband is so strong, you should also be as strong as that. Right? That's the immediate thing that we may think we should be saying. Okay? Because that's what we are noticing. But what does this principle say? The principle is saying that no one person is alike. Every person is different in the way that they see the world, the way that they feel, the way that they react, the way that they respond to anything. Okay? Even though the problem may be the same, or the cause of the problem may be the same, it's still the way that one takes it can be very, very different. All right? So as a principle in counseling, what are you doing? Individualization is letting them know you have a right to be you. Okay? It is based on the right of people to be individuals. It's okay to be you. It's okay to be different. And that's why also, you know, even in counseling, you may have a lot of people who are very different from others who come in for counseling, right? Like for example, there may be a member of a family who comes and says, you know, I'm very different from all my siblings, all my brothers and my sisters. They are all a certain way. I'm very different. And my father and mother have always told me I should become like that. And if you as a counselor are also going to say, yeah, become like that, you're no different, right? So what are you doing? It is helping people see that you have a right to be you. Okay? It's based on the right to be an individual. And we treat them that way. So what are you doing? You are recognizing that each counseling has unique qualities. They have unique experiences. Okay? They are a different entity. They're not attached to anything. They are as unique and as special, right? Just like each of us are made at the image of God, right? All of us are different, unique. We have our dignity. God's given each one of us a dignity. And that's what we recognize. In counseling, we recognize every person who comes to us is a brand new make, right? Okay? Then so when we are dealing with people, we may not like when you go to service your car. They have a 10-step process of servicing the car, no? But maybe like they have 10 things that you do to every car, right? So man is not machine. So when someone comes to you for counseling, you're not doing the same thing that you did for the person before, right? It may be a totally new conversation that you're holding. So that's what it says. The use of principles and methods to assist client can be very different. There are different use of principles or methods that you're helping people to make that change. So you're not treating every person who comes to you like a machine. It can be a very, very different conversation every time you have. So that's what individualization basically means, that they should be treated as someone who's unique, who is a person or an entity that's very special, okay? That shouldn't be compared to anybody else or anything else that you have probably seen. So that is what the principle of individualization. Each person is treated as an important individual. Okay, clear? Yeah? Okay, it's also a right to be treated as a person with personal differences. So each of us could have our personal differences and it's that right to be treated for who they are. All right? Okay. Are you all okay with the first principle? Can I move on? Online students very, very quiet today. No conversation. Okay. The second principle, we'll look at two examples, okay? A young wife lost her husband to sudden death. She comes to you and cannot control her tears and her emotions and is incessantly crying or a man is sharing and says, I'm so depressed. I can't work. I can't think. I just sit there all day. Which principle is this? Okay. I just sit there all day, nothing gets done. Okay? Now, when someone is talking to you or is in a conversation with you and they're very, very emotional, what is the first thing you may do? You may tend to, we may all respond differently but what do we do? Console them, okay? Francis, what will you do? You don't know. Someone is crying in front of you. What will you do? You'll say, don't cry. You'll say, don't cry. So, very often we are very uncomfortable when people get emotional, right? That's true, correct? But I'm saying when someone is doing that in front of you, I'm asking you your response. How are you? What would you do? How comfortable are you? Yeah, I understand what you're doing. Oh, I understand what they're doing. I'm asking you, I'm asking you what would you do? You said, let them cry. You'll sit and watch. Okay, you'll sit and watch. Okay. So, especially maybe in our culture is that we are very uncomfortable when people show some emotion, isn't it? You think about maybe, you know, when you were growing up, when you started crying, what did your parents maybe say? They used to beat me. What beat you more? So, basically, we are, because we have not probably been allowed to express when someone else is expressing, we're also very, very uncomfortable. We just want to somehow get out from there or say something, finish it fast and over. All right. But in counseling, there is an important principle which talks about to help them have an expression of feelings which is called a purposeful expression of feelings. So, in your time with them, it's just not getting them to cry, cry, cry, cry, cry, cry, you know, all, they come 10 times, all 10 times they're crying. It's called purposeful, which means they need to express, but it also needs to lead to something. Okay? So, the first recognition of this principle is that the counseling needs to express feelings freely. You should give them enough opportunities, space, time for them to express their feeling. Okay? Sometimes what we do is when they're crying, the first thing we do is we ask a question. You ask a question, like, like Susan, Susan was crying, no, Susan was crying. What did your husband do? It's a question, right? So, you're actually moving her into... Correct, right? But allowing them to stay there and cry. Now, that doesn't mean you keep quiet. That's a technique. That's, you know, you use certain techniques to help them to purposefully express those emotions. So, that's called the purposeful expression of emotions. And when you do that, in order to do that, you need to listen carefully. You need to listen purposefully. The word is purposefully, being able to listen to what they're saying. Remember, it's not just the content, but it is the emotion behind it, right? In fact, when you talk to many people, no one's going to say, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling angry. Nobody will say that. What will they say? My husband did this and he did this and how could he do that? And, you know, it's so mean of them. They will not tell you directly that they are. That language, they will not use. I'm feeling sad because my husband, no, they'll say my husband did this or, you know, that teacher, I wish I could kill him. Why? Because they're angry, right? So, the counselor needs to listen to what they are saying and deduct or infer what emotions they may be going through, okay? So, that's the principle of expression of feelings. Also, you're also the counselor is not discouraging or condemning any expression of feelings. You're not discouraging them to say, don't be angry, don't be sad, don't be jealous. No, you're not discouraging them, allowing them that expression, okay? What you're doing as a counselor is you should be stimulating and encouraging them to express their feelings. Can you give me a way you can stimulate someone to cry or someone to share, someone to feel? How do you do that? You should, can you tell me some way you can get a person to express their feeling? How do you, okay, let me, let me give you an example, okay? I'm going to say, let's say I say, I had a very bad fight today. I'm only telling you that much. How can you encourage me to express more? I'm saying I had a very bad fight today. How can you encourage me to express my feelings more? So, what happened will only give you, I will say, I fought with such and such person, we fought about this, we fought about that. I've told you the content, I've told you the, the matter, the circumstance. I haven't told you my feelings. Right? Okay, so. Okay. Yeah, so that's one way you can ask, you know, how are you feeling about it right now? Or you can say, my, that sounds as if that was really bad. You know, are you feeling angry about it or how are you feeling right now? So that's how you stimulate an expression of feelings. When you say what happened or tell me who you fought with, it's all the circumstance, but an expression of feeling goes a little bit more deeper. It's the next level that it goes deeper. Got that? Yeah, okay. All right. Online students, are you all okay? Oh, sorry, Jacken said something. Hold their hand and console them by being there. Sorry, Jacken, I think they're lost. I mean, your composer is crying. Oh, okay. All right, yes, Jacken. Okay, good. So let's move to the third principle. I'll give you an example again. You have been called to see a man in the hospital. Before you go in to see him, you'll find out through talking to the doctor that the man is terminally ill. You go into the room and the man says to you, I want to ask you something. Am I going to die? Do you know? Can you tell me? Am I going to die? No, there's no question. Nothing, I'm just showing you an example. Someone is telling you, then he's asking you. I want to ask you something. Am I going to die? Can you tell me if I'm going to die? How would you deal with a situation like this? He's telling you his sad story so much so that even you feel like crying. And then he's asking you this, am I going to die? Do you know? Can you tell me? Do you want? Oh, sure. I'm telling you, I'm dying, I'm feeling like I'm going to die. Okay, so there can be sometimes when someone is, someone's asking you a question, you really don't have anything to say. Isn't it? Like, especially in situations like someone passed away. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Am I going to, this is a problem. Other, I don't know whether he's really a believer or ready to go to heaven, maybe he's actually going to go in heaven. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm going to go in heaven. I think I'm going to go in heaven. I think the stress actually, maybe it's because we have a lot of stress. Why do you think so? I think it's because we have a lot of stress. Like, if there may be so strong. And like, hopefully it's not a big one. And if he's a believer or so, how can you say it's okay? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so basically this, the principle that we're looking at is, how can you be involved, your emotional involvement? How is, how can you control it? Okay, so as, as a counselor, you're going to be faced with very many situations like this. Right? That it is so difficult to even respond. Right? And that's what comes to this question, this principle of being, having a controlled emotional involvement. A controlled emotional involvement. Now you may look as if you're very insensitive or you don't care, but in order to help someone, you have to be, I'm not saying detached, but you really need to know how much you need to be involved. So it's a sweet spot. You need to be sensitive to the, the counselor's feelings. And at the same time, learn how to stay in control or to be able to help them through that, that emotion, to bring them to a place of understanding. So that's what's called this controlled emotional involvement. Because if you're also going to be as emotionally affected by the counseling, your help is not effective. Okay? So that doesn't mean we may not feel like that. I remember, you know, my initial, my initial times of counseling, I used to come back home and cry very often because it's a new thing. I haven't been in such a state before listening to so many problems and getting so involved in their lives and things like that. But then in time, I also learned how to be, have that sense of a, you are involved where you're sensitive and you're a compassionate and you're empathetic, but you're also, you also know that there is a certain boundary that you may need to place as you are dealing with them. So it is a purposeful, appropriate use of your emotions to respond to the counseling's feelings. Now, I'm going back to that example. So when he asks you, am I going to die? What is something we can say if we are going to make appropriate use of your emotions? What is something you can say? Sorry? So what will you say? A little bit. A little bit. What will you say? What will you say? What will you say to the doctors and the army? It is a will. It is a will. But if they thought there is no counseling for a call, they're going to die for sure. Yeah for sure. And if he asks you, you don't know that he will die, but it has two answers. If he answers something, if he speaks something, what will he ask from Namaskar? See, the point is, ask yourself, is it something you really need to answer? You don't have to answer whether he's going to die, yes or no, you will die. That's not it, right? That's not the outcome of it. So you could say something like, I can't imagine the pain you're going through right now, right? That you really would like to know an outcome of this. But unfortunately, when I don't know, but I'm here to help you through this, I haven't answered him because I don't know. Honestly, I don't know if he's going, and maybe that's not the right time to tell him about God as the healer also. Because he's so, he's actually crying, right? And he wants some support and comfort and someone to just be there with him, that he's not alone, right? And then maybe after that, you can come and say, you know, let's pray together for strength and... So in some of those times, it's a good thing to just be quiet, right? Just be quiet and say, I know this is really, really hard. You won't die? Okay, so I'm talking about initial responses, okay? Now, all of this will come at a later point when you calm them down and then you can... This is that, he said, am I going to die now? No, this is happening, she's just... Okay, remember, you are counseling here. Then the outro. Oh, there are counselors who are in places for death and dying, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, so many there are, especially people who are terminally like those who die of cancer or some kind of thing. There are counselors there who help them through that last stage of life. Oh, yes. What will happen? Is that the answer he wants to... I don't think he wants to hear an answer. It is out of that angst and expression of sadness he's talking about this. He's not like a doctor telling you, am I going to die? It's not that he's... It's a news that maybe he's got, the doctor has told him about everything and then he's sitting with that news and can't be... and is in a place of shock. What next or how is it going to... Exactly. So that's all of those emotions are happening over there. So our role as a counselor is not to give them an answer and say, yes or no, that's not it. It is how are we helping them through that stage? And one of the principle is how can we stay involved yet controlled in our emotional response? Without actually giving them an answer. It's like I said, counseling is not about giving them answers. It's about leading them through difficult stages of life where they find a way to cope through this. Okay? All right. Also, when we're looking at emotional involvement, control emotional involvement, it is how much a counselor is going to be involved in the problem of the counseling, objectively being involved in the problem of the counseling. Like maybe your counseling, once leaves your room, they're going to get into a problem. Okay. And you're saying, okay, I will also come with you. All right. So your involvement in the problem also needs to be controlled and objective. Okay. You're not solving the problem for them. Like, let's suppose a husband and a wife, someone or the wife comes to you and says, my husband is beating me. Okay. You're not the one should go and give a whatever a complaint to the police station. All right. Or you go to the husband's house and then why are you beating her? That's not your that's not your job. Right. But what you do you're empowering her to be able to take action. You can you can support and assist, but you don't you have to be involved as objectively as possible. Okay. And control emotional and controlled emotional involvement in the counseling as a person, even, even how sometimes you may have a soft corner for people because of the kind of things they're going through your, your involvement with them also needs to be very objective and controlled as well. Okay. Oh, there is. Okay. So an emotional person does not qualify to be a good counselor. No, nothing like that, Jack in nothing like that. Is it so or is it possible that we can learn and develop these skills and help some people at least? Yes, absolutely. Right. We are all emotional at some, some core. It is it's a skill. It's learning how to stay involved to stay objective yet know how to be have that sense of boundary or a sense of control as you are dealing with them. So it's a skill that you learn. You're right. It's something that you will learn as you practice it. Okay. All right. The next one, we'll go to the next principle. It's the fourth principle. So what is the first one? Individualization. Second is purposeful expression of feelings. Third is controlled emotional involvement. Okay. Next one. The example is a young woman comes to talk to you about God and his existence. She feels that she can't break away her allegiance to her God, but yet would also like to treat Jesus as one of the many gods. They also come. Yeah, you have many mixes like that. Yeah. So in a case like this, when, and this is why we talk about the principle of self determination, where you're giving the individual the right to make their own choices and make their own decisions on something. Right? You're giving them the right. You cannot override somebody's decision or somebody's choice on anything. You can bring them to a point of awareness or understanding and looking at what are the benefits or what are the disadvantages, but at the end of it, it is their own choice. It is an individual's own choice of how they decide and do things. So the council has a right and a need to have freedom in making their own decisions or choices. They have a right and they have a need. Although there are certain limitations to it, what are some of those limitations is limitations of not harming somebody else, right? Or maybe harm to themselves. For example, if the counselor, the counselor comes to you and say, I'm going to commit suicide. You can't stop me. You know, I will, I will go die. You can't say, her right, her need, let her go do what she wants. You have a responsibility because it concerns the life of another person. Otherwise, within those limitations, they have the freedom to make their decision and their choices. The counselor has a duty to respect the right in theory and in practice and you refrain from any kind of a direct interference. You can't manipulate them to do something you want them to do. Like, for example, if you don't, you know, if you, if you don't go back to your husband today, I will call your mother-in-law and say, you know, you cannot have any kind of, or if you don't go back to your mother-in-law, you're going to go out on the street. That's emotionally blackmailing them, right? So no indirect or direct form of interference is possible, right? So that is the principle of self-determination, the ability for the counselor to make their own choice or decision in any given problem or a situation. Next one, a husband is talking to you and says, you know, I have all this guilt. Every time I sleep with this other woman, I feel so guilty. What can I do about it? Okay, so there are going to be times you are going to have people with different kinds of moral codes that come to you and that's where we look at the principle of acceptance. That is recognizing that every person has dignity, has worth, has equality, has their needs. So that does not mean when you're accepting someone, you're accepting their behavior. That you're saying, okay, what you're doing is right. When I accept you, that doesn't mean I'm accepting what you do. Okay, so your acceptance of people is regardless of their behavior, their environment, their characteristic trait, their personality. It's regardless of that. You can, you accept them for who they are. Okay, you had a explain. So when someone comes to you with a problem that, like the example I spoke about, you know, this husband was sleeping with other women, right? It was infidelity. And it's quick that we may judge the person for what they're doing. But in counseling, the principle in counseling is we accept them as people for who he is, for knowing that they have dignity, they're unique, they have worth, we accept them as people regardless of their problem or their environment, we accept them as people. So which means we do not, this judge dismiss them because of their behavior or because of their sin or because of their issues that they're coming. They are accepted for who they are. As a human, correct, correct. Exactly. You, you're not approving of it. That's what it says. Acceptance does not mean approval. Approval is saying, okay, great, you're doing good. You're not approving, you're accepting them as people with a behavior, with a condition, with a situation. Okay, but it doesn't mean you are approving of their behavior or their attitudes. Acceptance also will include how they think and how they feel. All right. And even how you think and how you feel towards them and what kind of service you give them. Right. Like for example, we tend to treat people who are nice, nice, we tend to treat people who are right. But in counseling, your way of treating people, even if should be is the same. It is based primarily on who they are. And however you serve them, that's what it says, is expressed primarily in the manner of service. So the way that you're thinking about them, you're feeling about them should be from a mind of respect and honor and acceptance. Okay. Biblical, no? Think of how Jesus saw the adulterous woman. Acceptance. But he didn't approve of her behavior, but accepted her. So that's what we're called to do. Okay. Next one. I'll share this with you. I'll share the PPT with you. Okay. Next is an example. A wife in counseling says, I just separated from my husband. I'm emotionally involved with another man. I'm not sure that my husband and I can work it out. I know what my beliefs are, but I'm not sure what to do. The principle of non-judgmental attitude. So in a situation like what we spoke, what I give you, often, you know, people going in for some help or support will say, hey, you know what you're doing is wrong. You're in sin. There's a lot of judgment that happens. Okay. So this is very closely related to the previous principle where there's a non-judgmental attitude, where it is based on the premise that when you are seeing them, you're not assigning any guilt or innocence, which means that suppose the husband and wife is sitting here, you're not there as a judge pleading someone guilty and pleading somebody innocent. You're saying, okay, wife, you are guilty. You're very innocent. That's not your role. Okay. Not being in a place of judgment, which means being non-judgmental. Okay. No matter what the situation, it's not just acceptance of the person, but also not judging them for what their situation or they are. Okay. It includes a principle of non-judgmental attitude also will include how you make your statements of, you know, towards your counseling, your attitude towards your counseling, how you treat them or how you act towards them. What are some judgments that you use to say things about them, to feel about them. So all of this is not just in your behavior, but also in the way that you think about them. Okay. It is not making those evaluative judgments about their attitudes of who they are or what they are, so that you see them as, sorry, you see them just like the way God sees them. Right. So not having, not being in a place of judgment. Okay. Next one. The example is a teenager comes in to see you, sits down and says, I hate my parents. They stink and I don't care what happens to them. Okay. Here is the principle of confidentiality. What is confidentiality? Yeah, it is not disclosing any secret private information in the relationship. So like this, when you are meeting maybe members in the family, one family member may say something about the other family member or they may say some secret thing of their own life. Right. And it is not, in, as you as a counselor cannot be sharing that information to others. Okay. That's what the principle of confidentiality is. Okay. So confidentiality is a right of the counseling who comes to you. Right. And actually it is a ethical obligation that is in the professional profession of counseling, one of the biggest ethics a counselor needs to hold on is confidentiality. And if you breach that confidentiality, you have breached ethical principles or ethical practices. Okay. It is necessary for helping. Why? Because if your counselor knows that you may go and share this with somebody else, yet they're not going to be open enough to share or discuss with you. The right, however, the confidential right is not absolute, which means there are two conditions that information about the person can be shared among other professionals like counselor to counselor so that they can get the best help that they want. Like for example, if the counselor is stuck on what to do, there is a written permission that is given that it will be discussed with other colleagues for better help. Or confidentiality is also not absolute when there is a risk to somebody's life. Okay. Or there is a risk to someone else's life and someone else is trying to murder somebody or abusing someone or they intend to take their own life that time. That's when confidentiality can be divulged, can be breached. But it should be all with a written permission that is required to divulge information to others who are involved. Okay. So just going back to those seven. Yeah. Okay. So these are the seven principles, individualization, purposeful expression of feelings, controlled emotional involvement, self-determination, acceptance, non-judgmental attitude and confidentiality. Yeah. I just want to know these legal things. So if a person is going through a situation which they want to take their life, so the person came to a counselor and he counseled, the counselor counseled that person, particular person. Whatever happened, we don't know, but that person took their life. So what will be the legal things this counselor will face because of that? So the responsibility of a counselor, if someone does come in like that, is to, with, in that session to be, after assessing the risk to be able to inform someone next of kin generally. That's something that we do. Right? Like if there is someone over here and we assess the suicidal, high suicidal risk, we do inform, get the person in confidence and inform a third party or whoever so that they get either vigilance or they get adequate medical help to the family. So generally in a counseling sheet, there is the name of one person that they have to write down an emergency contact number. Right? And it'll be written there in case of an emergency, this person will be contacted. And that's what they sign. So, if it is a position like, see, you are a pastor, someone messaged you on WhatsApp or some social media, and they wanted to take their life before that they wanted to speak with you. So after speaking with you, they took their life. So when an interrogation happened, because I heard a situation. So what is important, Anand, is when you get calls like this, there is a certain protocol you have to follow. Right? Like if it is, I mean, I know sometimes there are these helplines, suicidal helplines, where you can't track. You can't track the person. It's an anonymous call. And that time you can't track it, because that's what it is meant for. But if it is at least people you know, or something you know, it's important to lead them to some form of help. So without that, you shouldn't cut the call. You shouldn't hang up on them. Still, you've ensured some help, either in the form of them seeking out somebody or, you know, you offering to call that someone and make that conversation. That's very, very important, especially if you assess high risk. And that is a way to assess. So I know, sometimes, you know, lay pastors are not equipped to deal with those situations. But then if something like that happens, there is some way to deal with it. So that, you know, legally also you are protected, as well as the person has not, you don't have to inform the police only, you can inform a family member so that they say this person is like this, please come in right away and take them or, you know, please ensure that you go there, get back in touch with them, get them for help. That is something you must make sure you do. Okay. All right. Any questions or any thoughts? Interesting. Okay. All right. If there aren't any questions, we'll close with the word of prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank You, Lord, for helping us learn something new. God, we understand and know that the ministry of counseling is vital in church as well as for the outside world. I pray that even as we go through this, that You will equip us, Lord, You will give us greater understanding. Lord, You will help us, Lord, learn not just skills and techniques, but also from Your Word of how important it is, Lord, for connection and building relationships with people and helping them see the truth of Your Word. Thank You for Your grace over each one of us. Till we meet next time, we pray that You will work in us and You will continue to examine our hearts, Lord, so that we could be right in Your rise. Thank You once again. In Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. All right. Thank you all. Meet you next week. Thank you, students.