 Hello and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp and I'm the Executive Editor of DataVersity. We'd like to thank you for joining this month's installment of the monthly DataVersity webinar series, TDO Visions. This month, John Lively and Kelly O'Neill will be discussing the difference between business sponsored and business-led. Just a couple of points to get us started. Due to the large number of people that attend these sessions, you will be muted during the webinar. For questions, we'll be collecting them via the Q&A in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. Or if you'd like to tweet, we encourage you to share high-risk questions via Twitter using hashtag CDO vision. If you would like to chat with us or with each other, we encourage you to do so. Just click the chat icon in the top right corner of your screen to access that feature. And as always, we will send a follow-up email within two business days containing links to the slides, the recording of the session, and additional information requested throughout the webinar. Now let me introduce our speakers for today. Well-known industry analyst John Lively is a business technology thought leader and recognized authority in all aspects of enterprise information management, with 30 years experience in planning, project management, improving IT organizations, and successful implementation of information systems. He is the president and chief delivery officer at First San Francisco Partners. Joining John in the series this year is Kelly O'Neill. Kelly is the founder and CEO of First San Francisco Partners. Having worked with the software and systems provider key to the foundation of master data management, Kelly has played important roles in many of the groundbreaking initiatives that confirm the value of MDM to the enterprise. Recognizing an unmet need for clear guidance and advice in the intricacies of implementing MDM solutions, she founded First San Francisco Partners in early 2007 and has been a great partner with Dataversity ever since. Recently writing our latest research paper BI versus Data Science. And with that, I will turn it over to John to get today's presentation started. Hello and welcome. Thank you very much, Shannon. Thank you everyone for attending our discussion here. And first of all, just a quick sound check. I'm being heard, Shannon. You did it right after I muted myself. Yes, you sound great. Okay, great. And I'd like to welcome to the CDO vision webinar series. My good friend and now colleague, Kelly O'Neill. Kelly, welcome aboard. Thanks. You know, I'm really happy to be joining this prestigious series. So I'm really looking forward to it. Thank you for the invite. And awesome. And now we're prestigious. That's terrific. Okay, so let's move on into our topic here. You know, the difference between business-led and business-sponsored. First, a quick look at some upcoming events. We have a CDO next month, Jeff Gentry. And we're going to talk about frameworks and frameworks like Saqman frameworks and planning frameworks and really cool artifacts like that. March 3rd, Kelly and I will be back on the role of data models and other key artifacts. So just keep those on your calendar. Block those off. Those are going to be rich. The rest of this year will be an incredible series of events, a very rich content around data strategy, chief data officers, the CXO and what is happening in this realm of information management and data governance. So keep this time blocked off. We appreciate you doing so. So let's talk about what we're going to talk about. Data governance can be defined as a business program. We have all heard many times on these sessions that they are business programs. But we need to distinguish the difference between business-sponsored and business-led because often we get into the situation of a business-sponsor versus an IT-led event which sets up an entirely different dynamic than when the program pivots itself to being actually a genuine business-led or business program. Sponsored doesn't necessarily make it business-led. It just means it's sponsored. So over a few scenarios there and then talk into how to pivot it and how to create some of those more actionable differences from business-led to the business program. Kelly has been working on a lot of these types of efforts as I have. I think Kelly, you can confirm that there is a distinct difference between the two. Yeah. As you were talking about this, it just made a very clear sponsorship in many organizations is kind of a nebulous term. It's not really clear what the role is of a sponsor. What do they do? Are they involved every day? Is it once a month? Is it once a quarter? I think that that's one of the challenges whereas if there is a true leadership role and leadership of a program means accountability for success. That's a much clearer definition. I think that that's one of the indicators. But yes, I think it's important to recognize the difference. Absolutely. We could probably do a whole series of events on just how to be a better sponsor for many of the business leaders out there that find themselves leading a data intensive program. Later in the year, we're going to be coming back around to this topic. For now, though, let's talk about the show. We're going to be talking about where are these different stars. Kelly, I said we need a sponsor. I think that's a nebulous. You can have a sponsor. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you're really breaking up. Oh, you can. We've had some problems with clipping and clipping the internet here. Let's do this. I'm going to go to the next one. I'll hold that hand on the phone. Kelly, go ahead. Hang up. Yeah, not a problem. Poor John. I think that there's a couple of components here that are important to recognize. When we look at the most senior level roles in the organization, so the CXO, call it the CEO, the CFO. Many times, these people in the organization, they assume that governance and controls are already happening. A lot of times when they're presented with this concept of hey, we need your sponsorship or your buy-in to promote data governance, it's shocking because they just assume, well, we've been under Sarbanes Oxley for however many years now. Aren't these controls in place? We verify our financial reports. We verify external public announcements. Assuming these are all in place. I think that that's really a difference between the people that are more on the management and execution side. They don't see that as already being in place. Both might be true in the sense that there may be some high-level governance and controls, but there's not tactical governance and controls that would enable the folks on the ground, if you will, to be confident in the data that they are consuming and using for their more managerial or operational reports. So, John, I don't know if you've successfully dialed back in. I've heard a couple of dings. So just interrupt me when you are. Are you there? So let's just go back one slide then, John. I didn't necessarily finish slide four, but at the same time, there are business-driven programs that might be cross-functional, such as Lean and Six Sigma, so that there's really focusing on operational excellence. There might be regionally specific programs that focus on, say, privacy within certain jurisdictions and geographies. There might even be line of business initiatives that are pushing the organization forward. And then IT, part of the reason that this graphic was created is that IT tends to be capturing all of that at a very tactical level and seeing the conflicts, the issues, the discrepancy and the lack of productivity as a result of not having the information and the data in a place that can support these already existing business programs and expectations. And with that, I might turn it over to John. I think it's your back on, and I don't know if you want to pick up on slide five. Okay, then I'll go ahead and keep going. No, here I am. John is back. John is back. Hi, John. John was muted. Hello. Sorry, I was talking and I was muted. Kelly's got this one wrapped up. I'm going to move ahead. Just wanted to add one more thing that the key here is that IT might be able to do this. An awful lot of these efforts are IT-led and not fine, but look at history. The CXO or the CEO or anyone that they live in a world of governance and live in a world of controls. Business areas live in a world of putting in C change programs, transformational programs. They're in essence used to doing a lot of this stuff and a lot of other folks in the technical pursuits like where most of us that are present on the call, either listening or giving have come from, we're not used to that. So there's an advantage to this. So at that point, I think I'll move in. Kelly, unless there's something else you think we're ready to go ahead and we'll get back on track here. Let's move on. Alrighty, so then it's real important for the business. We'll just use the CEO, for example, to be engaged with this. You will get visible support all the way to the top if you're supporting the strategy, if you're not costing more than it seems you're going to bring in, if you're not adding to risk. But if you're working for maybe another scenario is a competitor in your industry and their data governance program or data program of some sort is not going well, very often you'll see that it's IT driven and becomes a project or it's perceived as holding back other initiatives or because it's IT, mental management areas can put up a form of resistance or something like that. So your view of this and the engagement of the sponsor, the alignment with this as a business initiative, whatever that effort is, is really, really key to success. So again, sponsor, if they're really powerful, if they're really, really good, awesome. I mean, you know, move forward. But often in many organizations you have to move from the sponsored model to the led model to be effective. The end goal at all of this is to get from this initial contact awareness that a lot of organizations have, which is, gee, we have to do something about this. None of our customer records match or we send out the wrong invoices or, you know, any number of common drivers to this. And move people up a curve. Now either the sponsor has to be really powerful and do all this or you need to get that into the context of a transfer national program. This is a series of events that we use a lot in our practice. Kelly, there's a lot of moving parts here. There's a lot of details in here. Aren't there to get this thing from that awareness to that ultimate goal of internalization? Absolutely. And it needs to be a program and an effort that people are consciously making. It doesn't happen on its own. Absolutely. And internalization is that ultimate behavior that I talk about in a lot of my writing. And that is you shouldn't even really know that this program has occurred. A good transformational effort means that everyone just behaves the new way over a period of time. So if it's data governance, governance isn't a big special thing or if it's master data management, people take better care of their customer records or their product records or whatever like that. But it takes diligent effort to move it up this curve. If it's business sponsored and IT led, there's a lot of back and forth. If it is business led, it's more of a transformational program, which as we've already said is something that's happened in many organizations. So let's talk about data, we'll pick out data governance here as a business program and just talk about moving it and moving it around to the business led aspect. What we've noticed in our practice are four significant success factors. And either the sponsor makes sure these are happened, the sponsor is powerful enough to get these done or have the influence to get these done. Or there is a transformational program in place at its business led and this becomes one of the features. We're going to go through a series of steps here to talk about how to make sure these success factors happen. But it's real important to keep these in line. A lot of these aren't the typical success factors you might see. Business in line is something I've talked about an awful lot and we'll see some examples of that. But you also have leadership and will. I think Kelly can chime in. A lot of times we'll do the talk at a conference and we'll have someone come up and ask us a question about how to get a program unstuck. And it will become very obvious in the conversation that the organization they are with hasn't quite committed to really doing this. They're still circling it. Kelly, an example that I recently was at the end of the talk, someone came up and said, we had a big team to start this but now because of the budgets we cut it back to only three people. What can we do to keep it going? Well, my first thought was the organization doesn't have the will nor the leadership doesn't have the strength. Do you have a similar example to bring to there here? I'm sure you do. We've been doing this a bit. Yes, absolutely. And we recognize that there's budget cuts and there's budget constraints and things like that. However, many times governance and other sorts of information management programs get cut more than other programs because these four factors aren't in place. And it's, you have to have the expectation that you need to respond to business changes. And if your business environment is becoming less strong then there needs to be a way to support it. One of the things that is important to recognize also though is in a weak business environment these sorts of activities help to improve productivity, shore up an infrastructure and a foundation that can respond more effectively to those changes in economics. So that might be something to consider if you experience that. Yes, you bet. Organization behavior is something else that in fact we instantiated at first emphasis the only practice leader in the area of organization behavior and a whole subgroup of consultants in that area. And then lastly is just the ability of organizations to execute. There are organizations that just do things better or parts of organizations that just do things better than other parts and there's lots of reasons. We're not casting aspersions on any individuals here but there's just sometimes it's structurally easier to get things done. And it's very often if there's a powerful business leader in the sponsor position or it's just a sled and someone has rolled out a program before it's a lot easier to attach to that individual or that style of execution. All the other things that you hear about success factors of course are still important but when it comes to that business engagement and grabbing the program and moving it forward these are the four that we really look for and actually try to move organizations through. There are three stages to this type of work and we're going to just kind of step through those. One is the alignment which we've talked about and I'm going to show some examples that we have looked at before on these conferences so I won't dwell a long time on those. Next is division. What does this look like a day in the life? That is probably one of the most critical questions you will get asked in this type of scenario by participating peers or participating executives or leadership and then lastly pivot and operate the program. You either pivot from IT led to business led or you pivot it at a certain point from IT run to business run and business absorb but either way there is a pivot action that has to occur. This is not and this is probably if you're going to take anything out of this talk at all today. Take this one point. This is not a project type and not. All right. There has to be some choreography and some planning to pivoting this thing from its being developed to being an operational mode. Very often I have to explain to folks that even the team that you build the program with whether it's data governance or MDM, the group that assembles it, installs it, builds the requirements, does all of the work, gets the infrastructure set up, the policies, the procedures, the stewards, all of that. Those are many times not the right people to actually operate it and so there has to be some activity there and we're going to just talk about those stages here. First the alignment stage. We've all seen this before with a lot of the talks I've done and it's a theme that you'll hear with First San Francisco going forward. A lot of organizations respond to business saying I want this, I want that, I want that. That's the wrong approach to setting up these programs. These are programs that are at enterprise level. You have to look at enterprise needs and we have an example there where some user is saying I want access to all the detailed transactions or I want to have analytics or I want big data, I heard that's cool. Wrong approach. Right approach is we have business needs, capturing brand needs, getting the attention of the millennials, what do we do with our information about that? Very important distinction. Again, sometimes a business sponsor has to be very powerful with this and hold back meeting specific requirements even not grease the squeaky wheel that might happen and if it's business led it has to be very, very focused and very supportive at the high level with some business alignment. One of the things that you can do with data we recommend strongly that you consciously walk through your organization's business strategies and I mean business strategies. Installing big data or analytics is not a business strategy. That is a technology strategy and reaction to the business. What we're talking about is go after the millennials or be compliant with the regulatory challenge or something like that. And then deliberately look at how you're going to use the data to meet these. Are you going to improve process? Are you going to try to be more competitive? Are you going to create a product or monetize your data? Are you going to build some intellectual property that you can license or sell? Are you going to just enable your human capital at the point of contact with a customer or product by better than you want to do? And are you or are you going to manage risk which is something that we hear about a lot these days? You'll generate metadata requirements, you'll generate governance requirements. I could put four or five more columns after that. You're going to have maybe master data requirements, domain requirements, data quality requirements but you can do a deliberate alignment at this point with things. I'm going to wrap up on this slide as to some of the cool things that have happened around this model here. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that the devil's in the details in the sense that you can have these great statements around improving process and increasing value through certain categories but how does your governance approach do that? How do your other capabilities around data management like metadata do that? And that's really the level that you need to get down into is having the explicit statements of the activities in deliverables within your governance program and how they enable and increase value. So that's one of the messages around this. And the next couple of slides, you'll see some examples of how John and the rest of the team have done that very well. And I think that that's a big point here. Thank you. Two quick examples, not going to spend a lot of time on them. They're in the nice yellow box at the top, just some type of good business strategy. And you can see how a deliberate effort has been made to decompose some of the objectives that come from that strategy into some data management requirements that these could be, you know, these data candidates of client household demographics, this could be, there are enterprise information management or EIM elements that will support that governance, MDM, analytics, all kinds of things like that. And we have there a nice little decomposition of why we want to go, what we're going to do with the data, and what is the data that we're going to go with. And again, as Kelly said, the devil is in the details as to what are the elements of EIM that go underneath those. And just as an example of that, and just another example to show you that this is on one off, here's a healthcare example, industry specific. These are of course just one little tiny examples of very, very large spreadsheets and things like that. So that's the alignment part. And in organizations where we've done this, we've actually had some big smiles in the room when they start to see that we're really just not selling another tech thing. There's actually some really good things here. And as I transition to the next session, maybe Kelly can chime in here. When we have done this and it's not very hard to have business support, is it? There's not a lot of resistance at this point. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think that it is making that obvious link on behalf of a business person and creating that aha moment around how the customer experience, for example, is enabled by better governance and quality at client level, at client data levels. So creating that explicit link, which is what we're going to talk about in this next session. So what we're going to do in this next section is to really make it practical and go through a step-by-step way of creating those tables, those diagrams, and the messaging around business-led governance. So John, next slide, please. One of the key goals in our practice is really to provide practical information, and so hopefully you'll see that and you have seen that from John in previous presentations. But we want you all to walk away from here with some activities that you can implement in your own program going forward pretty much immediately. So John talked about the critical success factor of that. There needs to be some true material that is created that can be used to socialize, validate, communicate that information. And this is a presentation of alignment. Maybe it's creating the similar sorts of alignment spreadsheets. Maybe it's doing a day in the life of what life used to be like pre-governed data and what life is like post-governed data. Creating a vision of the program and a purpose for why the program is being implemented, being resourced in general. Part of that is, of course, linking that vision and purpose to very specific business needs. And the data governance and data management activity to those specific needs. So creating that line of sight is a term that you've probably seen John use quite a bit in the past. And this line of sight helps to support the other success factor which is creating and identifying leadership and creating a will in the organization because they understand how governance supports those projects and initiatives that need to get done in order to progress the business. So once you've got some of that material, you've got some understanding of the linkage to the business goals, objectives, projects, initiatives, et cetera, then you can start getting the organization behind you in the form of operational groups and identification of who needs to participate when how, et cetera. And so this is part of getting, of taking that picture and that plan and engaging the organization to participate. This engagement will be in the form of orientation. Maybe it's in the form of a series of meetings to identify councils to engage business sponsors. Maybe it is with other leadership bodies to get their support in their backing. And it's down to the level of the accountable participants to execute as well. So as you go through this process, these are steps to get it started, if you will, and we will in the next section talk about sustainability. But you'll see here where you're taking this concept of business alignment and driving it through the leadership engaging the will of the organization and starting to move into that execution via the support of the leaders within the organization, et cetera. So next slide, please. Sometimes we do this via a pivot workshop. And so there's multiple ways of doing this, but one way is to do it via a pivot workshop. And this is a way where you can pull together these cross-functional leaders within your organization. Sometimes these workshops also include senior members of the execution team, not just the leadership in the organization. Sometimes, however, it is nice to have these sorts of pivot workshops with just the leaders and then with the senior members of the execution team. Reason being is if one of the outcomes of these pivot workshops are to get the commitment of the leadership, get them to identify, retain, and activate a sponsor, that senior leadership group might be more comfortable doing it within this management team that they're used to working in versus a more hierarchically mixed workshop organization. And then that senior leadership workshop can inform the workshop that's done with the members of the execution team. But I think what's important here is that it is a facilitated discussion. You can use some internal facilitators. We've acted as external facilitators for our clients quite frequently, but you're really getting commitment as part of the outcome. So John, I don't know if you want to comment on this a little bit in terms of some success factors of these workshops and how to go through that process of creating the vision and driving it down to the level of commitment. Scott? I have opinions, but let's do thoughts. No. Well, a opinion here is this is a really powerful tool that this workshop and going through the efforts to get people in one room talking about a topic that they have not prior, perhaps discussed, is extremely powerful. But this is also a well-crafted, so my only final thought on this is this is a well-crafted, highly planned type of meeting or series of meetings with some very specific outcomes. You want to come out of there with either really strong sponsors on the business side with business people lined up underneath them. You may see a handoff of a sponsor actually in the meetings and then some clear steps. Go up to the white board and first we're going to do this to get it out of the program development to program operations. We're going to get it unstuck from program development to business development. Whatever it is, this is a highly crafted presentation, but the payoff on the time invested in this is enormous. Back to you, Kelly. I think the one thing I want to highlight and what you just said is that this is many times a pivot point and an adjustment of a previously IT sponsored initiative to a business sponsored initiative and that there should be an acceptance and feeling that that is all okay and that it is for the purpose of progressing the business forward and progressing the program forward in a positive way, not in the perspective of losing control from an IT perspective. Once we've gone through these workshops, the next thing is to make sure there's follow-through. I know that that's a kind of a point, but the reality is a lot of times we'll see a tremendous amount of excitement around these workshops, everybody's really involved, decisions are made, sponsors are identified, sponsors should verbally say, yes, I'll do it, great, next steps. If there's not follow-up after the workshop, decisions can be made and there's no reinforcement of those decisions and a lot of times those decisions need to be revisited or that the accountability that has been identified in those workshops and the acceptance of that accountability and responsibility becomes less meaningful if there's a specific follow-up after the workshop. So just very simply, there needs to be a summarization of the results and the activities and the follow-up to get people to then reattest to accountability for those follow-up activities. And again, this is the continued progression into operationalizing it and ensuring that people continue to maintain accountability for the activities and the projects. Part of ensuring that accountability is maintained is creating a measurement dashboard. So these sorts of dashboards can track both the progress of the program as well as the impact that the program can be is being made to the business goals and expectations that have been identified in the business alignment materials that we've talked about previously. So that dashboard is a great tool to help maintain momentum and accountability. Now another great tool is of course that roadmap. And the roadmap is a critical guideline that galvanizes the resources to ensure there is forward progress towards those goals and priorities that has been identified. That roadmap then of course informs the implementation plan and thus you can see a level of consistent operationalization activities as you go through this process. So I think a key point is to prioritize these follow-up activities so that you can take that momentum from the workshop and put that into an execution program. And of course it needs to be revisited. So just putting all of this stuff together doesn't really necessarily mean that it's successfully done unless there is a periodic basis and an updating of that measurement dashboard to ensure that there is progress. And I think that the revisiting it every three months is a kind of a minimum in the sense that a quarterly update is really a minimum in our view. Excuse me, I just sneezed. So you might want to consider revisiting it sooner than quarterly but at a minimum a quarterly review is important to ensure that you're continuing to make progress and have an impact. So next slide. Okay. So now we're going to talk specifically about once we've created these foundational components, then what? So are we done? If we've gone through, we've done this workshop and we've created the dashboards, the road map, the implementation, we're going to be thinking about this as a long-term program and discipline within the company, just like you have expense management as an ongoing discipline. You have personnel management as an ongoing discipline. Data management and data governance is the same thing. It's an ongoing discipline and you need to ensure that you have the people prepared to participate in the program going forward. And the training is provided to a business-driven program. Training takes the form of awareness and orientation, not just tactical procedural and process-oriented training. Engaging participants via the operating framework to ensure that there's clear accountability for those different roles and then staffing is applying people and names to those operating frameworks in the operating model so that you have the appropriate people to actually fill those roles. This is important in the sense that staffing is one of those points where organizational change starts to occur. And that people see that their roles are shifting, they need to release some of their previous responsibilities and take on some of these new responsibilities. So it's important to proactively identify that adjustment when you are actually staffing to fill those roles. And then as you continue to operate and move into this sort of sustaining mode of your implementation plan, going back and ensuring that the staffing is continually appropriate to make sure that there's not a reversion back into old operational processes, the old way of doing things, and that people really do continue to stay the course as it's been planned out to ensure that the governance program is becoming an operational discipline and is providing the impact that was originally planned back when you're creating your business alignment materials. So over to you, John, thoughts, comments and wrap up. Thank you. Thank you. John, some wrap up. Thanks, Kelly. Let's just move on to just kind of a wrap up and we have some questions going on here. Just one more thought actually on this last slide on the steps and that is the operational slash sustaining aspect. We have at the end there the sustaining, which is the kind of the change activities. Those really need to happen. All of this section here is kind of sort of doing the organization change management. But the real areas to re-emphasize that Kelly talked about are if your program is stuck, a lot of you have programs that are stuck, whether it's MDM or data governance or analytics or if you're stuck, this is a great opportunity to adjust the operating model to get it unstuck. Maybe you haven't trained the stewards well enough or maybe you haven't oriented business people enough to what data management is really about and that it is a real critical business thing. This is another chance to allocate some time to those steps. If you need to retrain some stewards or also train this opportunity to do that, no one's going to holler at you because you're doing this again. You've got a bit of a shift here. So it is a, you know, let's talk politics for a second. There's a movement here. There's a change in course when something like this is happening so it's a perfect opportunity to reload yourself on that. So moving into a wrap-up and then some time for questions and answers. If you have questions, please, please, please submit them. We will, we are happy to answer them. We are allowing a lot of time for questions here on this session. Our material is good. I'm sure it's wonderful but I'm sure we're not answering every single question you have. So please feel free to ask some questions. So something we hear, whether we're doing that, this is sponsored, business-led. Where is data governance? Where is data management? Where does all of this stuff live? The organizational aspects of this are very important. Later in the year we're going to address this topic absolutely specifically. Just remember that we're really not building out, when you're doing EIM, when you're doing technology capability as an end deliverable. You're using technology possibly to help you do something but what you're really doing is getting a handle on your information asset. It can live in compliance and all of that but at the end of the day, where does it live? We're going to go a little bit honoring a little bit of the new Star Wars craze here. It's everywhere. You are building something into your organization that has not been there before. The more and more we get into this, the deeper we get. We're finding companies ask us, we're really doing something transformational here and they might say we're not ready for that. They might say let's take smaller steps there but even if you take smaller steps what you find out is inevitably someone says well wait, you're doing some type of governance or MDM or analytics in this part of the organization. How does that plug into the rest of the organization? Whether you want it to be transformational or not or whether you leave it branded is transformational. A lot of this is in the way you manage it and the way you lead it and the way you build a mindset is really powerful and it goes a long, long way and that's why so much emphasis on this talk about the business sponsor and whether it's business led or IT led and either have a super, super strong sponsor of its IT led or pivot that when you have the opportunity and go into operational mode or even if you're stuck and get unstuck from IT and into business, get it into some type of business that you saw today were based on that. At that point I'm going to just move us, there's our nice little wrap up slide remember February 4th to PM Eastern time. We are going to be talking with Jeff Gentry and really cool talk about frameworks and diagrams and ways to show this to people that their eyes go wide open and they really, really like some questions. I'm looking at the questions here. First question let's see here. John can you hang up the phone and dial back in? I think we covered that one. The next question, business sponsorship of some organization seems to fill only one purpose and that's to earn accolades for the sponsors themselves when the project ever run into that. Tell us a sponsorship deficiency story if you may. You know I think that the sad reality about human nature is we are fundamentally all out for ourselves, right? And so having a sponsor who is fundamentally about promoting their own career isn't always a bad thing. I think what we want to figure out is how do we tie what we're trying to accomplish from a data perspective into their ability to promote their own career and leverage some of their ambition to progress your program. And so when we're thinking about some of the steps that we just walked through here it's really aligning to those personal goals and that what we realize might be specific to that individual's personal goals. And you know there's nothing better than being part of getting someone a promotion because you have supported them in such a way that they were able to get that promotion that they were looking for and move up in the organization. So I would kind of see that as a positive thing as long as we can. Thanks Kelly. A lot of questions have started to flow in heavily here so we can both be on our toes to answer that. I'm going to toss the question asking over to Shannon and that will free us both up for our brains for asking the question. So Shannon go ahead and you can fire off the next one and we'll take turns answering. There are other questions that we get as people asking for a copy of the slides and the presentation. Just a reminder to everybody we'll be sending a follow-up email within two business days with links to both the slides and the recording for you. So a question coming in, a business case showing benefits is usually expected to convince senior managers to implement data governance or any new program. We have to do a business case. We do a business case. It is really important. Some of you out there go, oh, business case. It's obviously got to have it because our customer data is horrible. You do the business case anyway. One main reason is how can you improve your success? Well, business case equals metrics, metrics equals success. So you do a business case. The various elements of EIM that we might want to deploy, those business strategies already have benefits associated with them. If you can connect and convince that you're connected with that and your revital component, your business case will take care of itself. And then you can get help from your business leadership as to how to build a business case. Remember, that strong sponsor is going to help you do that. You should not be left on your new sponsor. That's another thing. That's a quick answer to that one, Shannon. I love it. Next question coming in. It's very hard to scope the work efforts at large companies like FedEx with some many op-cos that need to be deployed as well. Any advice? I guess I'll take that one. I think just kind of piggybacking off of the previous question around the business case. How do you prioritize and be able to look at, okay, here's the enterprise requirements, but based on what we've committed to in the business case, here's our starting point. That's another purpose of doing that effort to identify the highest priority business issues. It's virtually impossible to just look at your data landscape and say, I think we're going to define our metadata starting with this data attribute and create data lineage up and down the track and get resources to execute on something that is as hypothetical and never ending as an activity like that. So really using that business case to say, okay, what from a data perspective do we need to do, what activities are associated with that, and how do we then impact the organization as we have received agreement based on our business case. That's a big prioritization process and then of course that business case is revisited over time that helps you to then adjust and update your priorities across your organization. John, if you wanted to add. No, I'm good. Let's go to the next one. We've got a lot of questions coming in. Actually, we certainly have time, John, if you want to add to that. There's two that have come in and kind of follow on to that, which I think will help on that. If you wouldn't mind, questions just came in that the business side wants the data administration team to shut up and go away. And even though they're economically justified. Economically justified does not equate to engagement of the business. So your problem there is what we've been talking about the whole thing, your sponsorship or your hook into the business. And if you're a DA area, that means you're kind of IT led. Your hook into the business is not strong enough. No one's giving you the air cover you need because someone, your strong sponsor needs to grab that. So another thing you can do is well, okay, you've done it. You've justified yourself. What happens if you don't get to finish? What happens if things don't get done? That would be your next step is to show what the outcomes are if you're not allowed to complete. That was kind of an extension of what Kelly was just talking about. So for your question, make sure you're submitting in the bottom right hand corner in the Q&A section so we can all see those questions coming in. And do we get to Chuck's question? I am between IT and research endeavor for our database. Faculty generally agree on the need for DG, thoughts on listing them in the actual development of the procedures. Could you ask that one again? Sure. Right now the question is between IT and the research endeavor for their database. Faculty generally agree on the need for data governance, thoughts on enlisting them in the actual development of the procedures. Okay. So actually just getting your stakeholders to participate in the process. Well, there's incentives and Kelly can chime in on this because you need to build. You need to make part of your team the people that will be benefiting from this. They should not just be observers. They need to be built in. Kelly, do you want to expand on that? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say that if these procedures impact their area, they're going to have a vested interest in making sure that it is something that is staffed and gives them the results that they're looking for. If they don't understand how some of these governance activities do impact their organization and their groups and the work that they do on a daily basis, then two things in my view would need to happen. One is that there might need to be better communication about that link. So why is it important? How does it impact the data they use? Or maybe that particular question or that particular procedure should be best focused on another individual within the group. But the idea is that as you build out these data processes, you should have the team of people identified who use that data in their jobs and in their daily life so that they can participate in ensuring that the data is optimized for them or that the data is at least understood across multiple different consumption groups or multiple different user groups. And that's your operating model, your operating framework, and the staffing of that operating model and operating framework is proactively identifying those people, getting their accountability so that when it comes time to develop those procedures, they're already on board and expecting to participate. And just to kind of go a little deeper, we'd all like to know how to harness a manager's ambition to benefit the organization. The only way to do that would seem to be absolutely positively guarantee success for our data governance initiative. Any additional direction? Wow. An interesting choice of words. I know I love it. There. Whoever submitted that, I hope he's not listening. All right. Anyway. Well, you know, it's an old organization change tactic, and it's, you know, if you want to read about it, read Machiavelli, right? What's in it for them? You know, if you want them to have guaranteed success, and there's two parts of this, and then I'm going to pass it back to Kelly, because she's so good at restating what I said much more eloquently. But no, but first of all, practical stuff. If that's the kind of sponsor you have, assuming you're stuck with them, give them some wins. Do something that might not tactically looks good. Play the game a little bit, right? And help and make them look successful. This is obviously a sponsor that is not going to take risks. So that said, one of the characteristics, if you go to any, you go to William Bridges or go to any of the other great authors on culture change or anything, one of the key characteristics of a good sponsor is they're willing to take a risk. So the bottom line for this thing is it's not a very good sponsor of your effort. But if you're stuck with them, give them some wins. Kelly, I'll pass that one on to you. Sure. Great example, we worked with a client where there was naturally an IT leader who wanted to become the chief data officer within this organization and governance was actually under the IT organization. So the challenge was it wasn't being very successful. There was not good business involvement. There was tactical business involvement. But it wasn't really driving value across the enterprise, creating consistency across the enterprise or improving individual sponsor. One of the things we started to do was to help understand what that goal of becoming a chief data officer was about, how they saw governance playing into the opportunity to have a chief data office in the organization and potentially prioritizing the work that is being done in governance to help create a level of formality around data and data management in general, which would therefore benefit this person's justification for having a chief data office. Now, I'm not saying that the prioritization of those personal needs became in conflict with any other sorts of business needs, but really it's understanding personal goals, determining how the effort of governance can support some of those personal needs. So I think it's really important to support some of those personal goals and at the same time how to identify and still drive business impact by doing so. So what we had found is that in order to support this initiative of becoming a chief data officer, one of those things is looking at data as an enterprise asset, which is one of the challenges this organization had. Governance helped to identify and put some structure about them being an enterprise asset. That ability to see data as an enterprise asset helped to justify a role of data across the enterprise, which helped to support this individual sponsor and stakeholder, which gave him more interest and activity and helped him become more vocal about the program, and in fact he enlisted more senior business sponsors to then help make the program successful. So that's just an example. I realize that we're out of time, but we're happy to take this offline and provide some more thoughts and guidance as well. So anyway, back to you, John and Shannon. Hey, Shannon, let's wrap it up. Sounds good. Thank you, Kelly and John for this great presentation. And again, Kelly, welcome to the series. Thanks as always to our attendees for taking the time to engage in everything that we do for your Q&A questions. Again, just a reminder, I will be sending out a follow-up email within two business days with links to the slides, links to the recording of the session, as well as information on how you can get more information from John and Kelly. I hope everyone has a great day.