 That's all garbage. Exactly. That was Scott's media follow-up question. I think Robert can explain to us why we would want 4K. And Rob and Scott's like, yeah, but what about 8K? We're about 16K. Exactly. All right. Let's see. I've got to start this over here, start that over there. And here we go. Thank you for tuning in to The Daily Tech News Show. If you would like to listen live, press 1 now. If you would like to watch live, press 2 now. If you would like to download later, press 3 now. If you would like to support, go to bit.ly-slash-help-dtns. This is The Daily Tech News for Wednesday, September 30, 2015. I'm Tom Merritt, joining me as he does most Wednesdays. Mr. Scott Johnson, chief of the Frogpans. How are you, Scott? I'm doing good. It's good to be here talking cool stuff. Great guest as always. I love Wednesdays, so let's make it our own. Let's make Wednesday our day. You know, we're almost into October. You can smell the change in the air. The leaves are turning somewhere, I'm sure, outside of California and Utah. But that means you might be talking about maybe getting a new TV, heading into the holidays, maybe asking for a TV. So we thought, at someone's suggestion, we'd bring in Robert Herron from Herron Fidelity. Talked TVs with us today after the headlines. How's it going, Robert? Hey, it's going great. It's always good to be here. And yeah, let's talk what's going on in the TV world. I have a lot to talk about there. Yeah, I mean, I've known Robert for years. Back in the day, long time ago, Robert would help put together TV reviews. And I would help put together the news for the top talk on the screensavers. And here we are, years later, totally different than we were. Doing the same damn thing. My wife one time called me from Costco and said, I think we found the TV we wanted. It's the right price. I said, I need to find out what Robert Herron thinks of this TV first. And she had no idea what I was talking about. And we waited until I found out what you thought of that TV this years ago. But yeah, there's all kinds of connective tissue here today. Don't be in a hurry. Just take your time. Buy the right damn thing. Make everyone happy. Live with it for many years. And then move it in the bedroom and buy something bigger. Yeah. That pretty much sums it up right there. Thanks, everybody. That's our joke. All right. Now, we've got a little more information coming for you after the headlines. Speaking of home entertainment, Tivo announced its new DVR called Bolt is on sale in the US at Best Buy and Amazon. The Bolt offers 4K support. It can handle cable card and over-the-air signals. As a bent design, they say that it not only looks cool, but helps with cooling. Software is also getting an update with a flatter design. Support for something called Quick Mode, which can let you play back video 30% faster with pitch-corrected audio. Something called Skip Mode, which lets you skip past the commercial breaks just on 20 selected channels and only for programming that aired between 4 PM and midnight. There's a 500 gigabyte model that'll cost you $299 and a terabyte model that'll run $399. And both those models will give you a year of the Tivo guide service for free, although after that you'll have to pay either $15 a month or buy a year at a time at $150. Thanks to SB Sheridan for the submission on the subreddit. Robert, my take on this, Bolt, is that I would hold off, because Hulu isn't on there yet, even though it's on the older Tivos, because they haven't switched to HTML5 yet. There's some of the roaming features, the Romeo-type features that aren't going to be available until next year. It seems like something that'll be cool if you wait six months. I think if you're totally fed up with your current DVR from your cable provider, specifically, if it's not one of the latest and greatest, like Comcast has their new X1 platform. Actually a pretty good DVR, but this is probably the nicest thing Tivo's done so far, but like you said, there are some missing features. 4K and Netflix seems to be the one everyone wants, 4K Amazon, excuse me, that everyone points at as the missing feature. It has Amazon currently for video streaming, but not their cool 4K service that's available on select TVs currently. And down the road it will probably be added. Apparently it has the proper HDMI output, so if you have a fancy new 4K TV that does high dynamic range video, this might be ready for it. But I always like to get away from giving my cable company any more money than possible, and this is a way to do it, yet still retain most of the same functionality you'll have with your paid subscription. You just won't be paying the monthly fee to rent that cable box from the provider. However, with any of these non-cable provided boxes, you're gonna end up losing a couple features, specifically things like pay-per-view and on-demand programming. Typically cable card driven boxes for cable subscribers won't support that as a feature. So that's just one thing to keep in mind, but otherwise having a built-in over-the-air tuner, which I love, as well as cable support with a multi-stream cable card. Pretty easy to set up. The design looks cool. I think they specifically put that bend in it so it has to sit on top. No other reason. I mean, cooling, sure. I'm sure it helps with cooling. Yeah, cooling, because there's no air. Yeah, why not? Hard drive's gonna rain so much heat, unless you're living in the, I don't know, the desert perhaps, but it looks like good hardware. But I'm really curious to see what they do as far as 4K content, and if they can do more than just Netflix and YouTube at this point, so. Well, Tivo's still a threat, everybody. Recodes Kara Swisher says sources tell her that Jack Dorsey will be the permanently named CEO of Twitter as early as tomorrow, Thursday, that's the first, so look for that. Dorsey was supposed to continue to run Payments Company Square as well. Swisher also says former CEO, Dick Costello, will likely leave Twitter's board of directors. So a bit of a, I don't know, Tom, would you call this a shake up at Twitter? Not so much, really. I won't call it anything till it actually happens, but if Kara is right, and she usually is, so I would bet money that this is going to happen. It is an admission by the board of Twitter that Jack Dorsey can run two companies at once, even though they were very firm about saying, no, you will have to choose. If you wanna stick around, Jack, you can't run Square and still run Twitter, and apparently half of Jack Dorsey is better than a full anybody else they could come up with. It also seems to me, maybe I'm completely out of the loop on what they do to either of these companies, but it seems like Square is the bigger thing to manage. It deals with finances and financials and law and all sorts of things that you have to deal with. I know Twitter's a behemoth, but Twitter's about people saying stuff all day and whether or not it's available in a certain country at any given time might be the most serious thing to come up, so if there are two companies where a guy could run both, maybe these are it, or maybe Twitter's one of the two. And the turnabout of that is everybody understands how Square is gonna make their money. Twitter still under questions of do you have enough users? Is your advertising model really gonna turn around money? So yeah, you actually have to work a little harder to convince investors about Twitter than you do about something like Square. True. While the iPhone 6S doesn't come to China until October, Apple announced it as launched iBooks, Apple Music, and iTunes Movies in China as of today. Streaming catalog includes work from Eason Shan, Li Ronghao, JJ Lin, and GEM. Users get a three-month trial period for Apple Music, just like they did in other parts of the world, after which they'll have to pay 10 RMB a month. Interesting. Engage reports that Samsung Gear's S2 smartwatch will go on sale Friday, October 2nd in the US. Shoppers can find them at Amazon and Samsung's online store or at Best Buys and Macy's of all places. The Gear S2 sells at $300. The Gear S2 Classic with a traditional-looking premium watch bezel and leather strap for 350. A 3G version will be available later this fall, is what they're saying, from AT&T, T-Mobile, and Verizon. Architecticus Dan Gooden reports that security researchers have discovered a botnet of infected Linux computers executing a DDoS attack capable of as much as 150 gigabits per second of traffic. Akamizeadvisory says the XOR DDoS, as it's being called, targets as many as 20 sites a day, 90% of which are located in Asia. XOR DDoS infects machines with improper security configuration and weak passwords, so it's not exploiting a vulnerability. Guys, it's kind of a sad but yet coming-of-age mile marker for Linux. It's widespread enough to make a botnet out of, and it's got enough people using it that there's enough people doing it wrong with improper security procedures that it can be infected. I figured this was just always gonna be the domain of thousands of Windows XP machines that nobody's updated, but clearly the Linux side of things needs to get their poop together. They all do. I mean, everybody needs to worry about security. I don't even think Apple can hide behind there. We make great computers, but we're also such a small part of the market that nobody ever targets us, or we're inherently more protected. Yeah, that's not working so well for them anymore. Phil, there's not any more anyway. Let's see, the Verge reports. Oh, we love the Verge. That Facebook profiles are getting a redesign. Some changes being tested now include a larger profile photo, because you need your bigger mug on there, and an optional looping profile video of up to seven seconds. Another change, users will be able to set a temporary profile photo that automatically reverts back to the old one after a certain amount of time. The new profile also focuses more on you, asking you for short bio, a place, or excuse me, and placing about information, photos and friends above your timeline posts. And I felt like Facebook's been, I don't know, sort of in need of an interface refresh for a while, so this sounds all right to me. Yeah, they've ignored profiles, even though people use them. You know, and there's some things that will now be higher up on your profile page that maybe people didn't see anymore, so you might have to pay attention to what you share publicly. But I love this being able to change your profile photo temporarily, so if you want to be the goofy person with the Santa hat on in December, you don't have to remember to take it down, and maybe we'll see fewer of those no more, no longer relevant profile photos that sometimes last for years after the issue at hand is long faded from public consciousness. Robert, you're gonna make a seven second image video out of your Facebook profile? You know, I might just have to, because I finally actually went back and posted a cover photo at least of my face. I went through it some point in the last year and deleted everything, and then I was all set to cancel everything and walk away from it, but I kind of left the account active, it's still how I keep track of people's birthdays, but the profile photo is the only thing I have currently in there, so the ability to mix that up automatically, sure, I like that as a feature. You don't want to be stopped SOPA for the rest of your life, you know, like some of these people just forget they changed it, I guess. You could do, I'm not here on cards. That could be your seven second animated. That's a great idea. I have unliked everything. NVIDIA has changed the name of its game streaming service, Grid to GeForce Now, and it officially launches tomorrow, October 1st. Service offers 1080p 60 frame per second game streaming, as long as you have 30 megabits per second broadband, and it will automatically downgrade. It'll sense your broadband and take you down to 720p if you're below 30 megabits per second, even take you down to 540p if you're below nine megabits per second. GeForce Now costs seven pounds 49 per month in the UK, $7.99 in the US, nine euros 99 cents in Europe, and 950 yen in Japan. NVIDIA also launched the Shield Android TV with controller in the UK for 149.99 pounds. A separate remote is available there as well for 40 pounds. Robert, I got a question for you about that device real quick, and just a quick disclaimer, I do a three hour show on Saturday for NVIDIA, so take that for what it's worth, but I'm curious about one of the things they're always touting about this device, and why it's a little bit more expensive than other alternatives using Android TV, and they say it's mostly down to performance and how much faster it is, and it can support 4K video from Netflix and others. Have you had any experience with that thing, and specific to my question that came up this morning, when I hook that up to a 1080p television, I'm getting better quality Netflix out of it than I do a Roku or an Apple TV or anything else. Is it, am I just seeing things, or is that actually happening with that technology? No, I fully believe you are seeing better pixels, probably from that device. One, I'm sure as a premium product from NVIDIA, and they're hands on with it directly, so you know every driver and app on it's gonna be well optimized, especially given their graphics processing power, and that it has the horsepower to do 4K, and you compare that to some, like Roku stick devices in particular are effectively like 720p devices at best, and it's really hard to know, if you can't bring up some indicator on the screen to tell you what resolution it is, there are also various flavors of 1080p video from Netflix, be it their super HD versus regular 1080p versus some other down converted mode, but that should be one of the very best Android TV boxes out there, and it's actually something I should just own. I've seen nothing but phenomenal reports for it, and I'm glad to hear you're having a pretty good experience with it, and the output quality should just be fantastic, and it could also apparently be a really good game streaming device as well, so. That stuff works really well, streaming it from PCs works really well, let's hope this now GeForce Now service does well, and Tom it seems like eight bucks is the happy number for a lot of people, I think eight dollars seems like the right price here in the States. Yeah, just not two digits, and not even round up to 10 as easily as nine, right? So it's that magic number eight. Tesla unveiled the new Model X SUV last night. I quickly forwarded those photos to my wife in a desperate attempt to explain why we should have one of those one day, probably never. Anyway, this was at an event in Fremont, California, top of the line P90D model will sell for $132,000 here in the States, zero to 60 in 3.8 seconds. Ludicrous mode adds another 10K, drops the zero to 60 time to 3.2 seconds. Ludicrous speed. That's perfect. The all wheel drive car is 5,441 pounds, has a top speed of 155 miles per hour and a range of around 250 miles. Cheaper 90D offers less performance, but a 257 mile range, which is interesting. Notable features include a goal wing, goal wing rear doors, a parent panorama windshield, a HEPA filter that can protect against bio weapons attacks and lowest probability for rollover for any SUV. Thanks to Sunburn for the post on the subreddit. This thing's a beautiful, that's Sunburn. Sunburn, what'd I say? Sunburn? You said Sunburn. Well, if I'd get my Sunburn out in the sun. I told Sunburn that he was gonna get a shout out in this show, because of his subreddit post. So I had to correct you, I'm sorry. That's all good. Sexy hot, I want one. Bad. Well, you have to wait eight to 12 months if you pre-order one now. Even though they're starting to roll about. Like, they are way backwarded. Star Fury Zeta wanted us to mention the Ars Technica article about Cole Marshall's quest to get high speed internet in the house he built on an empty lot outside Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. Now, it's technically outside the city limits, but it's not that far. It's not terribly rural. There are other people living next to him, for instance. Before he built on the lot, he went to charter communications and frontier communications and they both said, yes, we can provide you internet access. After he built the house, charter said it would only cost $117,000 payable in advance to extend the network to Marshall's new home. Frontier wasn't quite so bad. They just revised the speed they could provide him down from 24 megabits per second to a max of three. Well, it was nice of them to say this all after he bought the home. How lovely. So basically what they're saying was, we didn't really check that close. We thought you were in a zip code that could be serviced, but turns out you're just a little too far from the node. And by the way, totally unrelated, but Sun Prairie, Wisconsin has been considering rolling out municipal internet and both charter and frontier have been saying that's a bad idea. Oh, awesome. But you can still get DSL though, apparently, although it drops from 24 megabit down to three. Yeah, so at least he's not cut out of any option. That's a good point. But this guy works from home as a web developer. I would say the check for would be, we have a club facility that's just outside, well, it's right on the border of the city limits, and we do not get cable service out there either, nor is DSL even provided. And we were using satellite provided internet service for a while, and it's horrible. However, we found a local company that does microwave delivery, and they shoot a beam at us from 10 miles away, and it is very similar to the performance you get with a cable subscription for internet. So look around and see if you have any other options available too, because I pity anyone who can't get good internet service, especially if it's something you, everyone depends on it nowadays. It'd be funny if they said, well, we didn't think you were going to really build the house. You didn't get that in writing. Yeah, well, that was the problem. He never got anything in writing, so he can't do anything about it. Your problem. The next web reports, HTC will reveal its next smartphone at noon Eastern on October 20th in a live stream at htc.com slash launch, so write that down and be ready. The launch will be a virtual event open to everyone and encourages you to use the hashtag be brilliant. Sure, do that if you're an HTC fan. And Gadget reports a company called Dresen claims to have created the first commercial technology that can turn ambient radio signals into electricity. The product is called FreeVolt. It uses multi-band antenna to put RF in the 0.5 to 5 gigahertz range through a rectifier that converts it to DC, direct current electricity. FreeVolt can only produce 100 microwatts of power, so this is not gonna charge your cell phone. They're targeting it for the internet of things, powering sensors that require low power. Dresen already makes an air pollution monitor called Clean Space for 55 pounds through crowd funder as a demonstration of what FreeVolt can do, but they're mostly hoping to license it to other people. Development kits are available for pre-order today. I'd be really curious about interfering with people's like pacemakers and stuff if that's an issue or not. Maybe it's not, I don't know. I don't know how that works. Well, think about it. No, no, no, no, no. This doesn't have anything to do with pacemakers. What this does is takes the radio signals that are around you already. It doesn't broadcast anything. And electrifies them. No, it takes them and it passively accepts them through the antenna and then converts it into electricity. And then goes through your body and can't put three and a half. No, no. But there's just not a lot of power to be had in those waves flying around. We're probably putting more power off right now from my- But what if I just leave the microwave open and kind of jam a screwdriver in there? Does that give it an extra key? Just try to give yourself a little extra charge. Ah, come on, there's gotta be a way. I'm gonna use my 1200 watt microwave to get an extra, I don't know. If you're in a city, you're gonna have plenty of bandwidth going on with radio broadcasts and everything, people with wifi and all that stuff. If you're out in a rural area though, this might not actually even work for 100 microwatts. Well, there you go. The next web report is Russian company mail.ru has made its maps.me product open source meaning developers can embed the maps freely in their apps, map.me is based on data from OpenStreetMap with the addition of full online navigation. The hope is that more people integrating maps.me into apps will lead to more data contributed back to the OpenStreetMap project. Makes sense to me. I think it's a conspiracy, Scott. Because they say this will be good for some kind of humanity project, right? Some kind of non-governmental organization. But because it's Russia. What if it's my pacemaker with the map data? All right, now we're even. No, this is a great thing. OpenStreetMap needs more participants. And mail.ru actually getting involved and promoting it and open sourcing their own product to make it more accessible. That's fantastic. I love it. There you go. Thanks to everybody who submits stories. As we mentioned a few on this show at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com, not only do we have the ability for you to help form the show by voting, but you can make comments as well. So go do it at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. And that's a look at the headlines. All right, Robert Herron. We've got a lot of weird stuff out there in TV land right now. We've got Ultra HD and 4K and OLED and quantum dots. We're going to try to cover a lot of it here. But let's start, though, with SUHD. What is the difference when somebody says SUHD? Does that mean anything different than 4K? That is specifically referring to what Samsung calls their latest and greatest generation of TVs for 2015. Their SUHD series, the S stands for in Samsung's language of things. Whatever their top-of-the-line product is. And in this case, it's their best TVs for this year and incorporates some cool features that enhance LCD technology that we're all familiar with. One, you mentioned the 4K resolution, the UHD ultra high definition. So you have the 4X resolution improvement over 1080p. Also, color has been enhanced. These TVs are capable of an expanded color palette. And the way they're doing it, I think the most fascinating thing of all, and Samsung and many other companies have adopted a quantum dot technology that is an efficient way to create very high-quality white light. And they're doing it with the use of very efficient blue LEDs that shine through a layer that has red and green quantum dot materials in them. Basically replacing one of the diffuser layers that's in every LCD out there. Instead of having white LEDs behind the screen, they use these blue, goes through a red and green sort of filter or a generator. You can think of using those materials. And it just produces something that's super saturated in terms of the red, blue and green components that make up the white light. So when you go to break it back down through a color filter, you're getting these super saturated greens and reds that just weren't capable or possible with previous generation TVs. So the quantum dot is the filter? Is that when people talk about quantum dot, that's what that is? It's just where are you gonna put that material? And they are micro crystalline structures. So you have to either embed them in a tube like Sony did with their TVs a couple of generations ago. They actually just ran them in a tube that sat in front of the array of LEDs. In the case of Samsung and just about every other manufacturer out there right now, including some of the Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers who are putting these TVs out, as well as LG, they've said, you know what? We can buy a film with this material and pregnant it in it from a company like 3M. And there are a couple of companies who actually make the quantum dot materials, one here in the Bay Area called Nanosys and another overseas that LG uses. And the cool thing is- So what does it have anything to do with actual subatomic particles in quantum mechanics, right? It's just a name. Quantum mechanics probably, in terms of being able to stimulate a particle with light energy and then have it emit another wavelength, that I think is pretty cool. And the ability to finally tune, say for the red and green particles that they're using, what shade of red or what wavelength of red or- So there is a little bit of a quantum mechanical property to the crystals. Without a doubt, it's the precision of being able to generate red, blue and green. And then it adds efficiency to it as well because you're not using these relatively low efficient white LEDs to do the backlighting system. You're using the most efficient LEDs which happen to be blue, one of the most efficient. So using those, you not only can increase power efficiency or you can make the display brighter for the same amount of power, but you've improved color. However, we really didn't need improved color. Just about every TV nowadays can do what the spec says for HD video. They call it Rec. 709. That color space is much smaller than, say, what's used in commercial cinema. And this quantum dot material basically enhances the size of the color palette. So going forward, they can now author content with an expanded color palette, Ferrari red, properly represented, or blue greens out of the ocean that most TVs or even the encoding system isn't set up to properly represent. Can now be done. And however, it's chicken and the egg. We are waiting for content that actually supports these expanded color palettes. But Samsung has taken that and integrated it into the latest TVs as well. Now on top of that, it's also, they have an array of models within this SUHD lineup, including their super premium, the 9500, which has all the best things you would want in an LCD television, including full array local dimming, which is basically a grid of LEDs behind the screen shining forward, producing exceptionally bright video. And what they can do with that is enable support for high dynamic range. That's something you're gonna hear a lot about this year because that's the new feature, taking 4K kind of a step forward. It's, they don't have expanded color content yet. That's coming, but there is content available that does take advantage of these TVs that can do super bright detail, like two, three, four times brighter of a portion of the screen than you could possibly do with previous LCD designs. And you need a 4K or ultra HDTV to take advantage of high dynamic range. Is that right? There's no reason you couldn't do it on a 1080P TV, but nobody is. The manufacturers are kind of saying, you know what, all our premium sets are gonna be 4K. Our super premium sets will support extra light output in order to enable this high dynamic range feature. And content providers like Amazon have stepped up and are now offering some content, limited selection, but it is fantastic looking in terms of just having a scene that has not only the darkest details, well represented, properly colored, but bright highlights that are frankly so bright that I often squint at the screen if I'm sitting in a darkened room. It's like we're sunlight streaming on a character's face to reflections or somebody lights a candle or a lamp in a room. Those things can be so bright and pop, yet without washing out the rest of the picture or disturbing the really fine dark detail in the scene. And honestly, I was like, eh, we'll see, we'll see. It really does look really good. And TVs that can support that kind of display, I think are eye catching, but it's still kind of like we're sort of midway through this whole 4K transition. We've got the high dynamic range content now. We have some TVs that can really do high bright output, but we have none of this advanced color support yet for any content. And that's what Netflix announced back at CES last year. And I'm really hoping that before years end, we'll see something that shows the color side of it more than just the high dynamic range side, but. And it sounds like that's really the big benefit of 4K or UHD, which are basically interchangeable, is the color, is the better looking picture, not so much the resolution, right? Without a doubt, especially when you can do side-by-side comparison, showing the standard HD video, like a Blu-ray video, properly represented, compare that to what you would see in the theater. They use a color system called DCI, and DCI's palette is, say, about 20% larger than the HD standard. And that extra 20% gets you richer reds, darker greens, and colors that just aren't possible within the current system of what you see at home. It still reminds me, that's one great reason to go visit the movie theater, is that, generally speaking, the color you're able to see in a theater, a commercial theater setting, is gonna be better than anything you'll see at home, because they have a larger palette to work with. The content was authored for that larger palette. And we're waiting right now to see TVs that support the larger palette, in addition to high dynamic range as well. So far, it's currently Samsung's top-of-the-line SUHD TVs, as well as some of LG's latest OLED panels, which are also probably some of my favorite display technology of the moment. Well, here, I got a question for you. This is something that you heard for years and still hear it today. Big deal, even with 1080p, I remember people saying, well, big deal that Netflix says they're gonna support high definition, because really, it never will be, because it can't be. We don't have the bandwidth to get the video down, so no matter what, it's gonna be a little artifacted, it's not gonna look great, it's gonna be grainy. So why is everyone such a rush to get these high-def TVs? The technologies you just laid out and described for me sound like the answer to that. Or a place we can meet in the middle, which says, yeah, we need to figure out compression algorithms and everything else to make it so this quote-unquote ultra high-definition content coming from Netflix and everyone else is good enough, but also not killing everybody's bandwidth and not digging up the internet, but then on the other side, technology is built into these TVs that can display that stuff that make up for that. In other words, any of the sort of the graininess or the artifacting or any of those things that used to be very obvious are kind of hidden behind better color and better display technology. Is that, am I getting the right impression? Yeah, better encoding, a perfect example of that. I am tired of watching things like ESPN and 720p, and when you blow that up on a 4K screen, there will be compression artifacts that you can't escape. So you either need to apply filtering to help make that look better, and the beauty of apps built into TVs, or even built into a set-top box or whatever, the app can be upgraded rather easily to support new functions, new features, improve compression standards. In the case of the latest HD 4K TVs, you're looking at something like H.265 or HEVC encoding, which is about 50% better or more efficient than the previous generation, H.264, that we were using before. So either with the same bandwidth, you can double the quality, or you can have the bandwidth and maintain the same quality. However you wanna look at it, those improvements are part of the whole picture. And going forward, even for over the air, we're looking at something called ATFC3, the new digital TV standard. Where was two? Two never happened, three is gonna actually incorporate some of these new compression standards so that we'll be able to do things like 4K over the air, or a mobile signal embedded within the broadcast signal itself. So everything goes back to compression. And the ability to deliver the pixels we like with increased color palettes, with increased bit depth, with high dynamic range, these will all create a need for more data and the ability to stream it effectively. So we have to have things like improved compression standards. One of the big questions though really is who's video compression standard? And when you start sticking with things like the MPEG group and their H.264, H.265, you're dealing with licensing fees that add to the cost of any box or any product you put it in. So there are a group of heavy weight players right now who are all saying, you know what, maybe we should come up with a standard that's royalty free so that we can just get this into systems or not, you know, if you wanna develop a new product or a new service, you're not having to pay out per unit or per user a lot of money in order to just to get a handful of patents covered to make sure we're doing this legitimately. And I'm really looking forward to seeing if somebody pops up with a better, a more open sourced compression standard to be used. I hope that group succeeds at that open standard. Now, pulling it back to the current time, right? I think you've explained now why 4K might be worth getting. Is it worth getting yet? If somebody's like, no, I gotta buy a TV in the next couple of months, what do you think they should get? It will depend on if you're going for a premium model from any manufacturer, just about all of them will be 4K TVs. In another year or two, any TV 55 inches in larger will simply be a 4K screen. That's just basically the manufacturing numbers, how they worked out. It was very easy for them to simply quadruple the number of pixels compared to 1080p. And when you get into larger screen sizes, it becomes easier still. So 4K is gonna be kind of just a checkbox feature, like many other things are like apps or not, or 3D or not. However, this is one that's a core feature of the panel itself. So that's gonna be there. And people like Sharp have already announced 8K panels, that'll be coming out soon. Granted for a lot of money, but that's looking down the road a couple more years still. However, unless it's getting harder to find too, I think TVs that are exceptional, if you're going for exceptional picture quality, it's gonna become more and more difficult to find a TV that's not 4K, just in terms of screen risk. If I wanna save money and I wanna get 4K, what TV should I get? And if I wanna save money, but I don't wanna get 4K, what TV should I get? I think if the stuff like high dynamic range currently, and maybe it's like okay, whatever. I'm not an Amazon subscriber. I'm just looking for good value, high resolution, good performance. I have to say, Vizio's M-Series has been highly rated for the last, for the sense it's came out. They upgraded last year's M-Series, which was a 1080p, rear lit, full array local dimming LCD television, a premium feature really for an LCD. This year they stepped up the resolution, they added more zones of local dimming, and it has good color performance, good calibration characteristics, but it lacks things like 3D and support for high dynamic range natively. And you know, but still, you're getting high quality, good resolution, an app selection that includes 4K streaming from a variety of services and more to be added. But it's really hard to go wrong I think with that panel, especially from them. And they have a new panel coming out too in a few months, they'll be announcing. There are series, the reference series from Vizio, which is looking to step into that super premium level where, oh I want high dynamic range, I want a TV that can do 800 nits compared to the 400 nit TVs of last year or whatever and just super brightness and super performance. So that's one to go for. And for 1080p, I just finished up a review of a great TV from Sharp of all companies. They are gonna be changing hands as far as TV ownership goes come next year with a Taiwanese manufacturer taking over the name. But I was thoroughly impressed with what was the LE 653U series. Ultra value, not the greatest app selection but one of the best factory calibrated movie presets I've seen in a TV at any price. And it's one of those pleasant surprises where I was like, you know, once I switched to the right mode and I did a little bit of tune up on it, it was almost a reference quality picture. And I was watching a variety of different content, small to mid-sized screens, like I think it goes from like 24 to 55 or 65 inch. So you have a good whatever size you're looking for at rock bottom prices too. So I was really happy with that. And it's just another one of those like great value moments where I'm like, you know what? This all kind of came together in a package that I just really appreciated. And the fact that I was looking at a rather smaller screen for once, like a 43 inch that weighed, I think it was under 20 pounds. So just moving the thing around was actually a pleasure as well. Now we'll have links to most of this stuff at HeronFidelity.com and our show notes, dailytechnewshow.com. We'll have the names of these things. Before we go though, curved screen or flat screen? Mm, curved. Yeah. I, you know, until I had like, if you read my 9500 review, the Samsung, their flagship, I actually have a picture of it side by side with the flat screen 8500. And the two are very similar, both were 65 inches. However, when it came to room light reflections, I didn't realize how much better I found the curved screens dealt with it and actually minimized light reflecting back at me or distorted it in ways that made it less noticeable. And I find that if you're dealing with a room that has light you can't control or you're gonna have a light shining on the screen or a harsh reflection of some kind. Curved screens do help. Every year these manufacturers seem to do a better job at just minimizing any light reflecting off the screen. But I think that shape, that curved screen shape does an even better job than the flat screens at not being a mirror, like in terms of strong reflective scenarios that you could be in. However, technically also once you've lived with a curved screen for a little while and you're sitting back from it, particularly in a dark room, you almost hardly notice the curve at all. I mean, until you're standing on the side of it or something, it's really not, it's mostly aesthetics. So, I mean, if you truly hate a curved screen, sure, don't buy it, but don't be put off by it thinking that it's gonna detract from the experience in any way either. I find that's just not the case. All right, well, thank you so much for sharing that little slice of amazing wisdom and folks you gotta check out here in fidelity.com. We'll have some links to some projectors if you're into projects and TVs as well. Robert's got some great recommendations about that. Let's get to our pick of the day. Sam wrote in and said he's tried tons of media players in the past, but he's not been able to find a way to play YouTube videos in a desktop media player. Until now, he found Pot Player by a company called Down, D-A-U-M. So go to potplayer.daum.net, P-O-T Pot Player. Plays everything under the sun, just like VLC, but also supports high quality video scaling software such as MadVR as plugins, it's only Windows. Have you played around with Pot Player? It seems to be highly reviewed, Robert. I have not, I've not even heard of it. I was just using VLC earlier today because it's a do all program, but specifically he was looking for something that would play YouTube videos, like instead of just going to the website, you could just put in the link and play through there and have it like in your playlist in addition to the rest of your content. Yeah, I guess so. Maybe you downloaded them offline or something, although I would think you would be able to handle that, but yeah, Life Hacker gave it a good review, it was among its favorites. Really the only downsides I saw when I was looking around online were that it's Windows only. So there you go. You can only get it in Colorado and Seattle, just curious. You know, Pot Player, get it? Pot Player? No, you can get it in California but you have to have a medical reason to use it. Oh, okay. All right, good. I just always end up going back to VLC because it seems to support every codec under the sun and doesn't require like a codec pack to be installed in order to play some obscure video format as well. VLC is my DVD Blu-ray player on my Windows machine. Nice. That's what I use it for. Send your picks to us. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. You can find my picks at dailytechnewshow.com slash picks. Got a few emails to get through and some really smart folks in the audience sharing their wisdom with us. Thank you so much for this. For instance, Drew, and by the way, I got to give a shout out to Charlie who sent a similar email. Drew says in response to Tim Watson's comment that the phrase 360 degree video is technically under defined, he'll be happy to know there's already a term for what he envisions called a solid angle. The unit for a solid angle is the Sturradian, pronounced Sturradian. Okay, Sturradian. A full sphere is four pi Sturradians. A hemisphere is two pi Sturradians. We sometimes use these units in the space industry. Throws Drew out, who apparently worked in the space industry, to describe the field of view of cameras and other instruments. For example, a gimbled camera mounted to the side of a spacecraft with the view unobstructed by radiators or landing struts would have a two pi Sturradian field of view meaning that it can see everything that isn't behind it. Wow. A board hole. Yeah. So here's the thing. Now you can get extra snotty with people and they say 360 degree video. You can say, do you mean four pi Sturradian? And then when they say yes, you could say, gotcha. Most of these things are only showing two pi Sturradian. And then run real fast. Yeah, exactly. Sturradian stop. Rich from Lovely Cleveland was disappointed not to see a payment plan for the phones that were announced yesterday by Google. He says when Apple and Samsung are offering interest-free installment plans and every carrier is willing to pay off your old phone to switch, Google and Project Fi don't make it easy to switch comparatively. Yeah, that is interesting. I thought that they, don't they usually have some of that stuff from those announcements? It didn't even occur to me until this email. Yeah. About any of that. Yeah, if they have something like that, I missed it. I looked on the store. I didn't see any announcement of it or any indication. I even went through the process of buying one of the phones up until the point you pay. And it didn't offer me a payment plan. So yeah, I think that's a fair point. I was happy to see more additions to the Google Fi system anyway. At least all the new Nexus phones will be available and can be used with that service. For sure. More than just the Nexus 6 now. Regarding Chromecast Audio, Graham added a few advantages that Chromecast Audio has over just straight Bluetooth to your speaker. Reduced battery consumption on the phone over Bluetooth. The phone can be used for other things while it's streaming the audio, calls, games, et cetera, without interrupting the music. And control can be passed to another device. You don't pair it with just one device. You can add things. Different people can add things. And the streaming isn't coming from your phone anymore. It's coming from the actual dongle that's attached to your speaker. Jake and Wendy Virginia says, why couldn't they have just had a single device? They're both 35 bucks. Just have it know which port you're plugged into and to control how it presented itself to the cast button. I'd have paid an extra five bucks to not have to choose which version I wanna buy. Well, I'm down with that. Not a bad idea. I'll just see if it has lossless format support for audio because that would be pretty cool for driving a speaker in general. Really good question. I did a test recently with a portable speaker unit. I found that as good as Bluetooth streaming is for audio, nothing beats a hardwired connection. I mean, I was doing CD quality samples to the player or to the speaker system. And it made a difference hardwiring versus any type of Bluetooth streaming. Alex thinks he knows why Veronica was told she had got a fix for her car while VW is still saying they're working on a fix for the cars with the defeat algorithm. He thinks the fix Veronica got was removing the algorithm that fools the EPA test, but that still leaves the car out of compliance with EPA standards. He thinks that's the second fix that VW is working on. He says VW is left with the rather unfortunate situation where they'll have to strip power away or lower fuel economy. They can just reprogram all the vehicles to run an EPA testing mode, but I've heard that no sane human would want to drive the car in that state because it would basically lose all that lovely power and acceleration. The other option is to just let the fuel economy plummet, which is also not very enticing for people. And the third option would be to change how it handles emissions, which would be expensive. So it's kind of a no-win scenario. It's the Kobayashi Maru for VW there. That email also kind of, that email very well illustrates the entire problem almost in a nutshell too, which is interesting. They've obviously, they cheated and they cheated because look at all the trade-offs that they had to face and they had to figure out what to do and they didn't want to make any of them. So they didn't. Alex wrote a lot more explanation of all of that. If you want to see it, it will be in our show notes at dailytechnewshow.com. Also, several people wrote out to point out that we mentioned the Pixel C being cheaper than the Microsoft Surface, but it's actually not. We were thinking of the Microsoft Surface Pro because we were still thinking in those old terms of Windows RT versus Windows, but the Surface 3 is cheaper, not the Surface 3 Pro, but the Surface 3 is cheaper and has full Windows 10. So we regret the error and put forward this as our correction. Robert, Herron, thank you so much, my friend. People, you should go read what Robert does if you're at all interested in televisions. Where can they find you and what can they find there? They can head over to my website at herronfidelity.com and I keep that updated with not only good deals, but in addition to the reviews, anything I'm touching currently or have touched in terms of home theater gear. It's a good way to just see what I think of it and what my test results were and to get a good feel for what's out there and coming up and we've got trade shows coming. I've got a handful of reviews I still need to post and I'm working on it. I have a projector right behind me. I'm finishing up today that cool LG LED projector that has it built in over the air tuner and apps. It's like a smart projector. Absolutely love it. I took a, if you follow me on Twitter, I actually have a picture of it. We were using it for Sunday Night Football out in the backyard and awesome. It's just awesome and it's under a thousand bucks too, which is for a 1080p LED projector. So you're not dealing with the lamp module and all that other hassle of projector ownership. But yeah, Twitter is the best place to follow me for a daily just what the hell am I up to and then check me out on my website if you would. Yeah, it's Heron, H-E-R-O-N, HeronFidelity.com or Robert Heron on Twitter. Scott Johnson, anything from you before we get out of here? I'm so excited about TVs now. It's another thing I noticed about Robert's site is he answers people's comments on posts. So if he does a review and says a bunch of stuff and then it's big and detailed and people come and have a question, he answers all these questions. You're a typing maniac, so it's super impressive. Try. Thank you. There's a lot going on in my life, but the most important thing people should probably do is just follow me on Twitter at scottjohnson. Go to frogpants.com slash core if you're at all a fan of the game, Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard. We have a brand new show just launched Saturday, second episode coming up this week. So far the reception has been great and we're super stoked about it. So on this national podcasting day, why not go sub up to that show over at frogpants.com slash core. If you want more shows like this, folks, you have to support us. It's your support that powers this show. DailyTechnewshow.com slash support to find our Patreon link, our PayPal link, and our store. Please, those of you who have been supporting us, thank you so much and hopefully more of you can help us do bigger and better things like today's show. We wanna do more stuff. Our email address is feedback at DailyTechnewshow.com. You can give us a call 51259 daily. Listen to the show live Monday through Friday at 4.30 PM Eastern at player.alphageekradio.com. Visit our website, DailyTechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow with Derek Collenduno from the Skeptical Podcast. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club, I hope you have enjoyed this program. Lovely. Yes. Nice show, guys. Yeah, that was great. Thanks, guys. It was a pleasure. Skepticality. I always say skeptical. I gotta say, it was absolutely a pleasure. Robert, these are blowing me away right now. I feel like I wish we had a space to just come bring you back for like an hour. You know? I feel like a TV special. There's just so much to talk about. DisplayTek is cool. It just gets better every year. And there's some futuristic stuff that I'm hoping. We were talking about quantum dots in terms of how they are as far as being stimulated by a light source. But there's no reason you couldn't stimulate it with an electron source. And it could be a direct emissive display like an OLED. And that, to me, is what will be coming next if there is a next coming up in the next couple of years. So that's the idea. No reasonable would it be to approach one of these newer displays at those resolutions as big production displays for like a Mac Pro or a big PC or something. Because it used to be, oh, well, if you do that, it's 1080p, you're kind of locked at this low resolution. There are better display options for your PCs and Macs or whatever. But to me, it just feels real tempting to go grab like a 55-inch Vizio or something and have a really sweet display. I know a lot of people buying those 40-something-inch 4K UHD TVs for specifically using it as a computer monitor, something super-sized. Be it somebody with vision problems, or if you just want a large format display. And I know professionals too, be it a colorist for movies or somebody in just some sort of video production that will have one of these sets as a kind of a reference display. Granted, if you're doing that professionally for video work, you're buying a good reference monitor from a reputable company. But it's always good to look at it on a consumer product too, just to verify it. Cost-wise, some of these prices I was looking at on a couple of your reviews, they're not all that much more in some cases less than high-def, widescreen stuff from LG or Samsung or whoever for the desktop, so it doesn't... Totally. Yeah, God, suddenly I haven't urged to buy those ultra-wide curved screen displays for my workstation setup as well. But I think in the short term, I'll be buying like a larger-sized 4K UHD screens to have as like my main monitor. And then take some of my smaller monitors and push them to the side a little bit. With OSes, depending on which OS you're using, the ability to do scaling really nicely and to take whatever icon size and font size and properly display it with the additional pixels is key. And I think Windows 10 is doing a better job at it than previous versions. I'd really like to mess around more with Mac OS just to see how they handle things in terms of pixel scaling and font scaling with different apps and things. Because that's one of the problems I run into. It's like, oh, I can make the desktop look okay, but then some apps don't support increased resolution or the way I need it sized particularly. And that's just one of those little complaints I have about. I think OSes should be a lot. Everything on the screen should be able to be affected by say a dot per inch setting or whatever you want, rather than- You're basically asking for responsive design on a larger scale. We're all worried about it on phones and tablets, but we forget about doing that on desktop. The desktop should be a completely rendered surface in a sense where it's like, you know what, any object on there can be dealt with independently and even if it doesn't have that native font support or scale support, they'll be able to do it. Sure. Yeah, I mean, it just brings into a bigger issue. Sorry to interrupt. Beatmaster just sent a link that Project Fi has an installment plan. Google didn't mention it during the announcement. Oh, but they have it though. Yeah. I was gonna say, because for a while, they were the Nexus 6 they had with installment plans where you can make payments on it too, so good. I wanna switch my mom over to that, but she loves Siri too much, man. I just, mama needs Siri. So she's gonna stick with iOS for a while, so I might move myself over though to DeFi. I like the pricing. DeFi, the 5X, I need a new phone. I just got a Galaxy S6, so I'm like, you know, I'm not in a hurry for anything at the moment, so. My phone keeps crashing on me now when I take calls, that's not cool. That's unacceptable. I know, it's a phone. I should be able to answer calls. It's not the killer app for phones, I don't care. Damn phone calls. I'm gonna call this episode Schrodinger's Television because we were talking about Quantum Dots and Tinvec just submitted that, and it made me laugh, so there. Okay. Quantum Dots. Not bad. But if there's a chance, if you get a chance to go visit, there's Nanosys in the South Bay. They do the Quantum Dot material for Samsung TVs and a bunch of others, so. And then companies like 3M will take that material and embed it in the diffuser layers that manufacturers can swap out for one of the regular diffuser layers. And that's why suddenly everyone's doing it because it's so cheap to do now, relatively speaking. It's just a, oh, we're gonna take out one part we're already using and throw in another part and put in some different colored LEDs and then have a display that we can now claim as a, you know, we're 98% DCI color spec or whatever it for, so. I mean, and you figured too, with Hollywood already authoring this content in that color space, it's not gonna be, I don't think it'll be much longer before we'll have expanded color ballot in our regular viewing arsenal, so. I was, Beatmaster was asking a question in the chat room, I thought was interesting and I just didn't work it in to our conversation, but do Quantum Dots have any downsides right now or are they kind of, a Quantum Dot is a Quantum Dot and they won't improve, the technology won't improve over time? Now, I mean, the one thing they did, compared to like a year or two ago, was to remove cadmium as a toxic element within the formula and when they did that, it made the particles much smaller and when you're talking like, wow, okay, half a nanometer suddenly changes the wavelength and so you have to be able to bend these particles very precisely. So that became an issue, but you know, that's just the technical thing that you work it out, you figure a way to do it, but I see no downside to this. The elements are very, or the particles are very stable, they're suspended in a trapped, you know, layers of plastic and it does nothing but either improve what you see or improve how bright it is or the overall battery life if it's a mobile device and they've been in pretty wide use now for a couple of years starting, I think one of the first devices was Amazon's Fire, one of the Fire tablets was the very first one and they simply went for, we want it to be as bright as possible, so. They were all about nits. Yep, it was a very loose filter, they weren't all about expanded color palettes, they were just simply, we wanna be able to just create it as bright as can be or brighter than last year's at the same power consumption level, so. It's cool stuff, but as neat as it is, I'm looking forward to seeing if anyone does an emissive display based on quantum dots rather than just helping an LED and an LCD make better quality of light. So that would be the down the road improvement, it's not in the dot itself, but just using the dot in a different way. Totally, because LCDs, I mean, no matter how good they are, they all have issues with off-axis viewing, you're basically looking at a very expensive light filter with a bright light behind it pushing through and plasma, rest in peace, but OLED is the cool thing. Being the emissive display technology that should assume the lead role. Currently, I mean, once you see an OLED display and it can do perfect black, it's really hard to go back and look at other stuff, especially at off-axis viewing angles, if you're not seated in the sweet spot. You still have phenomenal picture quality, it's just the cost right now. LG's best OLEDs at screen sizes in the 60 plus inch range are getting into the price of a small, a good used car. And so, it's not for everyone. I mean, I want them cheaper, but I'm not dropping 10 grand on a TV this week either, so. I remember the first plasmas were like 36 grand. Yeah, well, that's true too. And it took a long time to even get down to half price that I remember some of the 42 inch models we were looking at were 13 to $17,000. And none of those TVs are around anymore. Those are expensive investments just to have that flat screen quality, so. And were they even 720p or what were they at the time? They weren't even that, were they? They were probably. Yeah, they were 720. Were they, okay. I think they did too. They were also using rectangular pixels too, so they would do. I don't think 1080p was yet. They would do 1024 by 768 and then just stretch it. It was as long as it had the vertical resolution on HD. That's terrible. I'm sick of that. I remember posting the reviews and trying to figure out a good way to explain that not all 1080, in a headline, try to explain that we're talking about 1080p, which is better than 1080i in six words. And then to try to describe it's like there really are no 1080i displays unless you're talking like CRT maybe or. Right. Stop it. My DLP, I had a Mitsubishi DLP that would only do 1080i. It would not do 1080p. Changed the bulb for seeing it. Yep. 1080p with a DLP. 1080i DLP? Maybe, do I have a backwards? Was it only 1080p and not 1080i? Maybe that was it. But it would only do one of the 1080s. It would not do both. That's interesting. I have seen, actually, Sharp had a 1080p LCD that wouldn't accept 1080p input. So it had physically 1080p pixels, but resolution was up to 1080i. Right, and I'm assuming that was it. It wasn't about the capability. I could only, because I had a direct TV box that could do 1080p, but it would never send it because it's like, nope, this TV can't take it. That's one thing. Just since HDMI and just TVs with better abilities to detect what you're plugging into it, that's really helped simplify a lot for a lot of people in terms of how it happens. Yeah, HDMI is a blessing and a curse, though, because of DHCP. There's some things that I still do component for because I know everything will work, and as component is just dying, it's going away, those sort of workarounds become less possible. Unless you find one of those devices that supposedly does DHCP, but actually doesn't. Wasn't it like a bunch of boxes from China, like Blu-ray players, that supposedly didn't think, it met the spec, but it actually didn't do it, and so you could just put it out. I want to say Monoprice has those Firi HD boxes again where you could plug in your HDMI source. Well, probably went out of business. Remember when we bought them? I know, so did I, and I think Patrick Norton sent me a link the other day. He's like, isn't this what we used to, and I was checking out Monoprice for other things too. Monoprice has a bunch of stuff. Roger, you were showing me that musical instrument they were selling. Yeah, they're selling instruments now. I was like, what? And then I was looking at a masking projection screen they were selling as well. And I'm like, you know, four different money? They're trying to be this new kind of, you know, well, kind of like person who, I guess they're focusing on college dudes or something because everything they sell, there's like something and some guy in a dorm would buy. You know what I mean? It's not like Amazon where we, you know, I have clubs. Everything on Monoprice is like something, a frat guy. Oh, we need for the frat house. It's like the frat demographic. Oh, what can we get for the frow? Let's go to Monoprice. Beer, fridge, guitar, HDMI cable. Yeah, saxophone for the romantic nights. You want with the lady? It's a romantic night. I do buy bulk speaker cable from them though and I appreciate it. It's good quality stuff. Robert, it was good seeing you again. I got to take off because I hear my child screaming. Oh, always a pleasure, Raj. I'll get the rest of the stuff done in like the next two hours. Okay. Yep, that's fine. Oh, G wants their projector back. I have to give it back to them so I can test it. I'll get that done today. It's okay. It's affordable. I should, I'm gonna do a new projector here soon. So, did I say DHCP? I meant HDCP, yeah. It's because of that assignment of IP addresses. HDCP. Yes. That's one thing. They have all the same letters. I just put them in the wrong order. Sorry. One thing I appreciate about some manufacturers like Samsung is that they actually hire a third-party company to verify their ports and to make sure they implemented them properly because that gets rid of all of the stupid connectivity issues. Just having the folks who have the folks who design the chipsets that go into those TVs do a verification to make sure it supports everything properly when the various signal formats come through that it's detected properly and that you're not getting weird handshake issues or the snow or no screen or whatever. All the killers that just drive you crazy. You would think that's a problem that would just go away over time but everyone's looking to save money here and there and if they can not get something verified and just implement it. It was right on paper but it didn't make it into the product properly. But yeah. Still, there's so much good home theater stuff right now. Audio, new 3D formats, all the 4K streaming stuff coming. Yeah, and the 4K thing feels like it's starting to, it felt like pie in the sky maybe even eight months ago but lately everything seems to be aligning I guess or something's happening and it feels like it's a good movement on all sides for that. So, kind of excited for once. Yeah, I feel like we've been in a trough, Robert and I'm sure you're more aware of this than anybody where 3D wasn't really that exciting or a lot of people and we didn't have a lot to get excited about displays for a couple of years there and now 4K content's coming out. It feels a little bit like HD did around the year 2000 where it's like, ooh, there's a little bit of content. There's the prices are coming down like starting to be time to pay attention. I agree. Everything's working well. The compression schemes are there to take advantage of it. More of us have broadband. What's the name of that consortium? I couldn't remember it off the top of my head either but it's got everybody in it. Like everybody to the sun wants to create that, that open, that open Kodak. Oh, I don't remember the name of it off the top of my head but I remember Microsoft, Google and a lot of the heavy video players are, I think just about every manufacturer's got to be. But Apple was in it pretty much. Yes, that was the curious missing component there but those kind of things are necessary, especially when you look at other countries too, in particular for digital television, for broadcast over the air, I wanna say it was Brazil that waited until they could come up with a box that had almost no royalties associated with it so they could distribute it to the population cheaply and they weren't bound in these agreements where half the cost of this set-top box goes into royalties and other proprietary technologies and it's like, yeah, I don't blame you. I mean, I understand the desire to make money but at the same point when it comes to getting content or getting product out to enjoy this content to more people at prices we wanna pay, that's the way to do it. The Alliance for Open Media is the name of it. Yes, that's what I need to go right up about. Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Netflix, that's just some of them, that's not even any of them. AFOM, I like it, it's a good acronym. The Alliance. Yes. And then there's the Horde for H264. No, I don't know. MPEG LA, that's there, baby. MPEG LA, the Horde are the Horde products. Oh man. That's great. And I'm for the Horde, normally, except in this case. Yeah, you gotta be picky. Yep. All right, well, I am out of the post. Thanks everybody. Thanks everyone.