 this lovely session that we're about to listen to because I think it's very important that we all have an awareness what to do when we lose someone. I think you did a great job yesterday it was lovely and I'm really looking forward to this one. They were doing it again because the audio wasn't recorded so now yeah I think you practiced yesterday and now is the real thing maybe. We met first in real life yesterday while following each other for years I guess so that was really nice so when I heard that they were going to do the talk again I just felt compelled to be their Herald again and I'm really grateful and looking forward to this amazing talk so please give them a big applause thank you thank you so I'm going to start this talk off with a trigger warning we are going to mention suicide a lot and if you are not capable of hearing with standing or talking about that topic I recommend you leave now you've got about next 30 35 seconds to leave and afterwards we're going a full steam ahead meanwhile if you or anyone you know need help there are resources out there so there's this big QR code which will lead to to a list of the different help lines that you can reach internationally yeah so know that there is help available furthermore this talk is recorded slash streamed in theory once the Q&A session starts the recording itself will stop but until then it will be it will be recorded in the stream so if you want to like give any of your input or your own personal stories please wait until during the Q&A or even better afterwards you just approach us afterwards you are allowed to just take pictures of this record it just share it if you share it on Twitter please tag us and without further ado I'm going to give the word back to you this okay so I'm really grateful to be here again this is like a thing that I really needed this camp so for me this is woodstock for hackers there's like so much interaction with all the people with all the new friends that we made I really really really enjoyed it but we had another one a few years ago five years ago to be exact and it was Shah Shah 2017 and yesterday I woke up at like 3 a.m. in the night and I realized that it was the day we went to camp just before my mother died and at that time my colleagues came to my house so I opened the door so I said you wait too early the funeral is just in the in the afternoon so well we want to tell you that a ghost has been stabbed stabbed to death in the in the metro in Amsterdam so we don't want to have you hurt here it in the news so during the funeral I actually mentioned like my appreciation for him that you just realized that's like five years ago so it is kind of like experiencing it sorry I don't have any voice it more but I think it's important that you are able to show your feelings and you should not be shared to show your feelings but it makes it harder than like an average day I don't know anymore like yeah are you going to like the next ones so this all started out as just something that we got more skilled than an average person right we are in a situation where we can do stuff that the average person can't talking about installing an app on windows or deleting an email from a from a mailing list or your email server there are some people that still struggle with that we are of course as like a community but also we personally have some skills that other people do not have and because of that so at first you just kill yourself so you become like the smart nephew you will be able to help other people so you install like a new hard disk and upgrade your screen install like a graphics card maybe fix something recover a hardware and people know how to find you it's okay yeah thanks so they know how to find you and you help them out with all kinds of problems and sometimes those problems are like really odd problems one of the situations I had a person that was like having Roman romantic ideas with like the partner sharing like a picture and that picture and turned out to be like the background of the computer and there was like the same PC that was used like for schoolwork so you get a call can you help me out we don't have to see each other make sure that that it works so that requires a lot of trust for calling someone in to fixing some sort of problem that you're not like familiar with you're not tech savvy and I think that's what this story is about so we're here to help and like we're not here to be your unpaid IT department so there's like people telling you can you install an illegal version of Windows I don't like to factor authentication I don't like having different passwords we're not fixing people here so we like to help but we like to help in a different way and this work the work that we do the work that we're about to tell about is work that we not applied for it is we are not looking for that work but that works actually looking for us so my first situation was a family member remote family member that committed suicide and did not leave a note so there was no like clear situation if the person did it like consciousness did it was like influenced by someone else so the the family reached out to me at that time I was playing with computers but I was not as professional as I was now and it turned out that person had all kinds of measures to protect his invention for others to be found so to be able to get to the hard disk you need to like hold a special magnet on a special place to enable it data was like encrypted in pictures in in audio in all kind of way so I learned a lot about all kind of different methods by like googling stack overflow Wikipedia and then downloading the different tools to help and do that so if you do this work you run into all kind of stuff so you need to be careful and you need to be considerate for the people that you are doing this work for so first of all you don't go and compromise crime scenes so before police has been there and released the scene you don't go like taking stuff apart you don't touch anything if someone is still alive respect their choice so it's not my and these are not the guidelines these are just our guidelines but don't temper with the data of the living there's like GDPR there's AVG we're not doing that so we only want to help the relatives of people that actually died be respectful and validate the relative's desires so it can be like really cool to find something but if that's not what the relatives are looking for you're looking looking for the wrong thing so manage the expectations inform them tell them these are the options that you have it's going to take so much time to actually do that what do you want me to do first never work on the original make sure that you are forensically safe so using a big hard disk to be able to make a mirror and work on the mirror sometimes you need to validate that the information that you find is the correct information having one picture is enough to validate that it is the correct one don't go and browse around someone's private life and make sure that you are stable enough to do this work yourself so in my current situation I would not be able to cope with this right now so I need to have a stable mindset and we are doing this together and that's both from a stability mindset so he can look over me and I can look over him but as well as if you do not like have fancy celebrate hardware and you need to like copy stuff and it's like really really easy you have the DD command that you run if you have the IF and OF run you destroy everything and if someone is watching over your shoulder time looking at what you type you actually prevent making unnecessary mistakes and something that is not on the screen here is that we do this like on premise so we don't take any information home the disks that we use we wipe them before so the first like assignment that I did I was on location and I brought my camping equipment stayed there for a couple of days to see what I could find and to come back on the point of being stable enough right now there is a lot of things going on we were just in a lockdown it's luckily already we're cheating a bit crossing my fingers for the monkey thing but we are in a very very yeah bad situation mentally I think as a whole world and I can see that in my group as well right so I am bisexual I am very active within a bunch of very very queer groups trans rights are human rights by the way defective we applaud for that shouldn't have to be nice but thank you but yeah we are in a we are in situations where people are being forced back into their home because of economical situations housing is almost unpayable with you know with the current measures that we as students have access to and a lot of people have to get like forced back in situations where they wanted to get out of they might be queer with religious or abusive parents they might just not be in a safe situation at home anymore and I noticed that within the community I'm in both queer communities student communities team communities there is a loss of morale and a lot of yeah negative yeah negative mindsets which I unfortunately can a hundred percent understand and I sometimes experience those things myself as well not the whole parents thing you guys are awesome by the way but like there are some emotions that I and many many others struggle with and stuff like that can come very very close so I did a a case of this where I found out that the person I was who have had ended their life was actually in the same discord that I was watching the same YouTube channels I had had the same hobbies as I had and it got very very close so be sure that when you or if you do accept a job like this that you are in a mental state that you could that you can actually do this right because if I got that job handed to me a few months earlier I would not have been there so yeah be careful about your own mental health as well you come first you're not a therapist you're not some kind of magician you can help out but your own mental health comes first I want to add to that that this is a safe place like this is where people can be whomever they truly are and I really value this of this community and we see that also when we go together me dressed up funny as a unicorn to comic on that is also like a safe place a place to escape for people people that are trans people that are called by their dead names by their parents trans rights are human rights people so I think it is a really important that we are being really kind and caring for the people in difficult situations and I've seen the hacker spaces become a safe haven during the covert times to shelter people that were in different difficult situations so I really value this community yeah it is very important to have some sort of safe space and that could be within the comic comic on community like anime that could be within the furry community that could be within the hacker community it could be even within your own school or friend groups it's just very important to have a space like this and I think it's very nice that that hacker spaces are as open and accepting as they are yeah so a couple of object the objective that we run into in the assignments that both you and I did and that I did alone is like find answers to questions like why where are the people involved suicides without goodbye notes but sometimes you run into like really odd situations so there was one where there was like a CTF style farewell note and then you're actually playing a game about someone's life so it is really cool to play CTF but like with this on stake that's very hard recovering lost pictures being able to make a presentation a lecture for the funeral removing someone's footprint being able to interact with big tech that has no use for helping you with these kind of things because yeah there's actually no commercial incentive to help out and one of the last things that that I did was help someone out to validate the story because someone could have been misdiagnosed with a mental disorder prior to suicide attempt so we do a lot of cool stuff together I think we did like two 300 talks lectures workshops trainings and I am surprised every time with the speed that he like chases me and runs like far ahead of me so when it's like Father's Day or when it's my birthday he actually creates CTF for me and that takes me like couple of weeks to solve so we have a way when we are playing CTF together and it's like embedded in our life document everything make sure that you have evidence we use one note as a tool so I will be doing like the shell scripts with the one-liners while he is doing Python and sometimes I win but in most of the cases he does but that is like the same technique that is like embedded in our lives so document the entire process but you also need like to bring tools so if you're going to work on data and you only have one chance well if you are doing it forensically solid and make sure there's like chain of evidence make sure that you work on mirrors then if you cannot fix it you can always escalate to someone that is capable of doing that so bring discs bring different discs bring operating systems bring tools to mirror data SATA, PATA, SCUZI whatever so we have like a box of gear that allows us to do mirroring we don't have all the fancy stuff so we're doing it like on my paper hosting solutions but it does work and like all of the knowledge that we build up over the years on like different operating system different architecture different technology that really comes to use doing this work and most of the times it is for the technically not savvy people so someone in the household is doing the text someone is like keeping all the pictures on the disc and another person is not able to find everything because they are not used to working with computers they don't know where the data is so a simple grep dash isra on a specific keyword will actually be a world of change for someone that actually finds whatever they need or a strings on a document and sometimes it's like simple plugins as a grease monkey where you can like override data so if someone wants to remove the digital footprint it's not just a matter of enabling a switch and everything is gone yeah I really had a hard time removing the digital footprint and I scripted everything it took me like a month to have all these scripts running for like unlikin unfriending removing post overriding data with garbage information it's like yeah stuff that you do over time and just as in commercial work where you have where you are paid for an amount of hours or an amount of days being available you have the same stuff to when you're working on this so that first assignment that I did the person had like over a hundred hard disks so where do you start yeah obviously on the ones that are in the computer but if you are you are finished are you going to work on everything together are you looking at like the dates on the disk are you looking at is this a clean one or a dusty one so and on the CTF one stuff was stored on accounts accounts that expired services that stopped working phone numbers that were terminated so no longer having the second factor so we already talked about the emotional part so it's the personal struggles but also like the similarities like you like you said someone in the in the same age or like a family member or someone in the same community and yeah sometimes you run into like really special stuff like this technology or like the trip wires the mechanical ones but those are just the people that are not tech savvy but we are all IT professionals at least I assume yeah to assume is but we try to protect ourselves so we encrypt our stuff because otherwise people will say we are crazy so we have a dm cribs we have a bit locker we have a two-factor we use a ubiqui we have a telephone number but what happens if you are no longer there is your partner able to get to your data did you make like an understanding about that to give access to yeah to your partner so they are some of the results and I think the most important one is the ease of mind for the relatives so if a case is closed then it's just like it ends here and if someone that is willing to help you out and find the answers is doing their best to come up with solutions then at least you've tried so you did everything that you could so it's easier to give it yeah to leave it at rest we were able to at last remove the digital footprint at least the visible side that probably is still on the on the machines themselves but we don't long no longer see it we were able to create a slide show for the service yeah in time to show a proper service we were able to recover the data of a telephone that was wiped because three different tries were put in and the machine was wiped and we got the story validated so I have a colleague and that colleague really really likes to travel but yeah that there's like certain dangers especially when you're like going to a yeah a different country like a rough country so something can happen to you you're you're playing in a crash but it's like really really secure and I really really admired that colleague he has like overthought everything like in such a way like this is this is like legit this is solid but what happens if he dies what happens with his pictures there's no partner to share the data and he does like share the data in a distribution way a distributed way so what he did is like create a QR code gave that QR code to his parents and in case something happens to him they will call me and show the QR code so that I will be able to do the next steps required so no one is able to get in unless unless necessary but you could also use a password vault and like we are using one password as a family by the way sorry not sponsored by the way not sponsored by the way not sponsored by no no no no you can do whatever you want to use keep us or whatever but what I really like about it is like you have to share shared box so we have stuff that we can share amongst the family so if they want to watch Netflix that they can and we can change the password and will still work and you can make like a special master password for a vault that contains important stuff for when you're no longer there and store it like in a secure way so that it is still possible but at least think about this think about your own situation write down your and discuss your last wishes so yesterday Danny was here and share the link it is on Twitter I will retweet it today again there was like a last wishes website that allowed you to really overthink all the stuff so initially this talk was set up as a technical talk for people to motivate them to work on this from a technology perspective but the first time we gave it it turned out that there were like 20% of the audience was actually affected by the subject so either having a partner committing suicide children colleagues so it became quite an emotional one but what happens if someone starts about the topic what do you do they make a joke like the thing that your gut says is like come on it's okay look at the weather not look at this weather but we're all with hackers here so it's like a really cool situation but in fact that is not how it works I will come back to that later but also if someone like gets a heart attack are you able to handle and like we are like in a beautiful environment in a great community and there's like first aid on site but if you like camping remote are you able like to help out your partner and you don't have to learn it like if you are working in a company they are always looking for volunteers to do like the company of first aid and you know how to learn how to extinguish fires and you know how to try and help save a life so consider that yeah doing that as well so a friend of mine who's no longer here talked about suicide a lot and I had conversations with him about what was going on in his mind I never said it is all okay I just want to hear his story like be sincere if you have someone that suggests that they're not their lives not valuable enough tell them sincerely take time take him apart are you really considering committing suicide do you already have thoughts about it do you have it planned do you know how to do it and it really feels counter-intuitive but by saying it will all be okay you're actually actually dismissing this person's feelings well if you are taking the time and talking about the subject you're ever actually giving them breathing space so we're able to share their story and you will be able to like triage the situation like do I need to interact now or do I need to like be there for for them so there's a training that you can can follow so one of the cases that I did in the call lock was a number one one three so the person actually reached out to the situation to see and find if he the person could get help but one one three was not operational one one three was at that time one nine hundred one one three even though they said they were one one three and actually the parents made sure and fought to have it like the the the shortened number so the number on the right is all the international numbers for every country that you visit and once the two on the left are trainings that you can follow to do role play on these kind of situations so what do you say and how does that feel for a person that is affected by that it takes you just one hour of your time but it will make a difference it can actually save life so consider doing these I will share them on Twitter as well my handle is yellows and the code underscore come so that concludes our talk we are like really grateful for allow for being allowed to do this again because we think this is a very important topic and thank you very much for being here we really appreciate that thank you