 Alright, Karibu Sana, this is why in the morning you all come back and this is the last segment of this morning, sure And it's about to be fire right here All you can do is move close to your TV because they're about to entertain you with amazing insights But first things first, do yourself and us. Let's do each other a favor by jumping on to that hashtag Which is why in the morning on all our social media and that includes Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok You can't find it on our YouTube channel. Instagram is the one to find us on our YouTube channel By the way, I took a verified Naila Blutik. It's from Kwanzaari Tohikuchukulio by the way So it's from my gangsters, my gangsters who are social media, my gangsters who are guns Okay, that's what I meant. I write it on my YouTube channel Personally, you can check me out on the Brian Saquano one. Sometimes I post, sometimes I don't But anyways, if you want to see who's the best dancer or why in the morning, you should visit our YouTube YouTube, our TikTok channel, which is Y254 channel And Natalie is doing an amazing job right there. And I couldn't remember how to record TikToks Tuna Jahu has two left feet, but definitely I'm not the one But anyways, we from there, we have an interesting question We had asked you on all our social media platforms And we'll be sampling your feedback towards the tail end of this show Hey, Manialisa, do you have a question or a liar? Yes or no? Shout out to you. Oh, good. I was about to say Nabiho Squeezy Nabi. I don't know if you know Nabi, but I don't know If you don't know me, you know Nabi. I'm not a genius But Nabiho Squeezy, he's the same. He's the same person He's the one who came up with my name, especially regarding his story The Marlindi Cards, the Pastor Mackenzie Fiasco You know, for me, it's really shocking. Up to now, there's a family of A whole family. Father, mother, son, daughter, kids, including cousins How do you come out alive or not? But then my question in my mind is At what point do you filter out and get to know that this person who is preaching to me Are they preaching from a point of, you know, they're coming to me in the name of God But from the word of God, which is the Bible Or Well, in the tumali or Kambiwa, you know, I'm not calling you a Kambiwa Kambiwa, it is not happening here How do you differentiate between that? And we're going to delve into that and many other things But joining us, Love Institute, you are too powerful gentlemen You will like them The first guy is John Rye Wekeser I believe that's how his name is pronounced John Rye Wekeser is a radio news anchor Immediately sitting next to me on my right And then next to him is Kelly Bravin Amisi He's a freelancer You know, I don't know if you've ever heard of Chris Brown Our Kelly, Kelly Rowland, Kelly Bravin So he's like one of those guys Today's about to be fire So come close to your TV But first of all, you guys, good morning Good morning Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you Nice to meet you I love you too It's a beautiful morning Hopefully you'll have a good show Let me start from you What do you do? I'm a freelancer Basically, I write articles and blogs for companies And I also do dissertations and academic papers for students Either in country or abroad Wow, that's some good money, bro Depends But you have good money Good money coming through right there Yes Right Dissertation has to do with something with research Yes, you have to research the topic widely And come up with the conclusion here Interesting, powerful, yes Okay, personally, I'm a news anchor I'm also a short host at China Film I'm a poet, I do write spoken words I'm also a production manager somewhere This all I'm just referring to me Like I hold many positions You wear many hats But they say you can't be a jack of all trades But it's amazing how you juggling between them Yes, sure Right, and you're still also part of Wai Tufa for family Now you've joined us Yes Temporarily Yes, it's an internal journey, temporality Okay But hopefully we're wishing you all the best You never know how things go So, let's get into it The history of Pastor Mackenzie Mimeli She toured by the way And to a point We were having this conversation with my co-host Rukona Juliza Who came to Mali to charge And KunaZilla every two days And he realized Hey, I'm sorry, I'm quoting scripture It looks true But when you do a little bit of research And self-searching It's something else How can you differentiate between the truth And lies, especially in this religious setup To a point it's an extreme now You see In a church When a man of God Let me use the word man of God When a man of God is preaching To his audience Lazima are referred to the scriptures You have to refer to the scripture Before going further and explaining that scripture But when you just find a man of God Preaching, preaching, preaching Going further and even speaking in tongues Without explaining or rather referring to a scripture That means that he's a false man of God That is not a true prophet Okay So you have to refer to a scripture And explain that scripture further In details Okay What if he's using that scripture To even manipulate you to a point And you say And it shall be given to you But then the context and the angle Which it's being used Of course also in news we take angles Even in history in Mackenzie It will be taken in different angles Some will say it's a count Some will say it's a church Some will say it's a religious organization Also in context of preaching There's an angle Like you say If you don't give Then don't expect it to be blessed But then as a person who is conscious And aware that yes I know I can give But I can't give this The only thing I have How do you create that in people's minds To a point You're not giving everything And then I'm going to go to the church You see in a church Like when you claim that you are a Christian Maybe I'm a Christian You have to know the Bible For you to tell me that you're a Christian For you to tell me that you're a Muslim You have to know the Koran So that you can even explain to me What it says You see in the Bible There are only three people who fasted That is Moses And forget Jesus and Joshua I think Those are the only three people Who fasted in the Bible And when God told them to fast He did not tell them that Go and tell your audience That you need to fast for 40 days and night For you to become a Christian No, he told them that you are the one Who is supposed to fast So at this point The pasta The Mackenzie pasta But come up If indeed he is a true man of God He is the first pekiyaki The way Moses fasted alone Moses said to him We need to fast He did not go to 10 days to Israel That we need to fast for 40 days Because God said No, God told him himself You have to fast We'll come back to that But I'm really scared On that angle Yes Kelly I think it comes down to your idea of self Your self image and your self identity Because the reality is Anyone can quote a scripture Anyone can read the Bible You will find that Artists They know the Bible even more than some Christians So anyone can read to you a verse And tell you what they think about that verse And if you do it with enough confidence You will find that they can convince people Within the crowd about the idea Now what happens is If you have a low idea of self Your self identity is not solid You will find yourself Doing extra Giving extra So self identity is how you see yourself The image that you have of yourself In your mind How you think about yourself Some people think they are deficient They think that they are lacking Or they are not good enough When you think you are not good enough You will want to find something that fulfills you That completes you But it could come from a place of abuse Because most people that feel insufficient May be now family Some are old me I never had a dad Or me I never had a mom So there is usually some energies in you They call them energies I don't know in science Others will say it is spiritual But now if a person is coming from that place Of luck And yet it is affecting their confidence Would you say they have a problem And they should fix it Because now you are saying it is self identity Yes You do have a problem You have a problem But how do you fix this problem A problem of self Most of the time Can only be fixed by you Not anyone else If you have low self esteem Only you can change that narrative within yourself But what happens is You meet a religious leader You are lacking The religious leader are the sharp people This account man is short for confidence man They are confident people They can see the lack in you Account man is a confidence man So they see the lack in you And they tailor their approach To you They take advantage of you Yes And you see many people You see things happening on media You see an accident has happened here This person has gotten caught here Everyone always thinks that it can't happen to them You think that you are the smart one Until it happens to you Now because you think you are smart You think that it can't happen to you But the common man is saying that The religious leader that is Duplicit as he is saying that And they tailor their approach to get you And to manipulate you They just give you what you want They tell you what you want Everybody wants something And if you can appeal to what they want You can get them Just on that note before we proceed What if in this example Somebody is praying for a job They have never gotten a job And we are looking at it From a religious perspective There are families who are like people of struggle Before the first person had to succeed They had to go through so many other channels And this included some spiritual help Or spiritual intervention But then here you are You are coming from such a space And then you meet someone who has such a Spiritual authority and they tell you One, two, three and it works And then later on they top it up with other things And then it piles up and then it ends up as This incident in Malindi How do you break down that? It's called social proof If you see people getting caught in the street I'll get back to you This is the Korn man And then there are people who pretend That they are also playing that game To give you confidence You see that this person is winning So you also think that If they are winning then I can also win You see that this person went to this religious leader And got the job So it gives you social proof It gives you validation Makes you feel safe Because you see it work Now you also want it to work for you Is it a good thing or it's a bad thing? I think that's now another question Is it a good thing or it's a bad thing? It worked for them, yes Yes Waliambi was Jeeva Here is a red Chikaipate do the extreme Don't eat for 7 days and it's working In fact they are getting millions And they are helping In fact they are changing lives now How do you question that? That is true But to see life But you will find that people People are very miserable In those conditions But you won't see that You will see the front they present to the world That's what we are You will not see the other side of it You will not see what they had to do Or what they are doing currently To be where they are You will see that And that will sell you the idea now Social proof You will see that it's working for them You feel close And you feel part of something that is bigger than you That is where people get caught Yes Your reaction? You see when you want to know that this person Or rather this man of God Is not a true man of God This person is not a true man of God He will come and tell you Even though you are poor you don't have anything But he will come and tell you You have to give me this and this So that you can achieve this But what if she As I mentioned I close in the Bible That says give Without the other hand Without the left hand and the right hand knowing And those people that give And it works And those people that don't believe in even giving But even look at international organizations Even the wazungus They believe in giving charity works Now how do you debunk that To a point you are not being conned It's not a crime That is my question You see even if you are told to give And you don't have what will you give out You only have 30 shillings And you need help from this particular man of God Instead of him helping you To achieve more That is not a true man of God So you should be wise Yes a true man of God Even if you are suffering He will come and tell you I know you are suffering But if he tells you I need that touch above you That is not a true man of God I met one person He was claiming that he was a man of God In the streets of Nairobi I can remember I am a man of God And in 2010 your mother was sick of ulcers And I was like yes In 2010 my mother was sick of ulcers You know I don't know But I was sick of ulcers Yesterday you ate a garlic And you know as a lure you have to eat a garlic Is that the purpose? That is nonsense But then the Confucian comes in We don't have awareness If you look at I am really scared of this topic Because it's not my favourite I swear to God it's not When you look at the big religious organization Don't call them churches Especially those that have massive followings You realize if you compare the teachings And those that are not well known There's just something unique about it And then the number of The number of women actually Usually it's women Who go to these churches a lot Is it because there's no information People are desperate for miracles Or quick success Or people come from a place of We are sad And this is the only person who could have given us hope And here they are telling us To slaughter all our chickens Sell all our equipment and wealth And we join this To go to a boarding school or church To attend a story at home As in what is happening in people's minds To a point where you do that You see women, especially women Who are not proficient Who are not proficient Please not all women Like not all women Not all women But more than 50% You need research in the family More than 50% of women Like there is a church I'm not going to mention that name That church You can see a negative side Of that church Is it because the pastor is feared Or the religious leader is feared Or they believe to possess some certain power Seeing that to come on the level of a buyer I can command one, two, three To happen to you No, they just Already that is a miracle And I can tell people It is not a must for you to To be touched and the Holy Spirit And to speak in tongues so that You are in the right place Who is in the church It's not even a must to go to church I don't know why I'm saying who is in the church You see, God is a Bible You can read a Bible from home From the comfort of your soul You can read a Bible there You see, in the church Who is the Jew that you are said It does not happen like that Another question What is the solution now? Because this thing has come at a time when It's a dilemma Yes, the religious organization is highly supported By the current government at hand In this situation here, Paul Mackenzie Is really confusing as well Are we calling it out as This is a cult, this is a religious leader That has killed people Where do we get the wisdom As much as we are calling this issue out But we are not attacking the church We are neutral But then we are not also neutral We are giving solution That we should vet such people That is a cult That is not even a religion We are not supposed to call that a religious leader Because For a human being You cannot tell me that you can fast For seven days That can never happen You can only fast for seven days For only seven days But you telling me that you are going to fast For forty days, forty nights That cannot work Even that Mackenzie faster I know he has not fasted for more than Ten days You know that Let me hear Kelly's reaction He has said that if you want to know A true religious leader You will ask for something But someone that will give you something They will not ask for your 30 bucks Is that true? You know why? Even that one that wants your money If they see that your gods are up They will come there They will give you something Because they are already aware If they see that you are smart They will just come and ask They will first give you something They always have to bring you close People think that it can't happen to them Because they bring you close Slowly They will just come and give you They will bring you close And then once you are close enough Once you are all caught up That's when the ask comes in How can you prevent this from happening? In reality You can do your best But you really can't prevent it In a way Not just in religion In the years of life Even in personal relationships People get cornered Being cornered is such a broader word But What you can do First you need to have a good sense of self You mentioned this self a lot You mentioned it a lot How can people have a sense of self? That is awareness That's awareness What's awareness? Awareness is really your thoughts You see the funny thing is What you think is what will always happen to you That's just life For example All the time or just once Let me give you an example Let me give the viewers an example If you are a fanatic of cars If you love cars Do you notice that When you think about a particular car You are thinking about a Volkswagen Golf Do you know that when you are in that Matatu Going to town Yes Yes Whatever you see in the world Is what you hold within you You see what you are You don't see things as they are Because they get into your mind And they make you see What they want you to see Not what is That's where the manipulation comes in now So how to prevent this Is first of all being grounded in yourself You have to be grounded in yourself And as long as You rely on objects for happiness You rely on Other people's validation for happiness You rely on being part Of something bigger than yourself To feel gratified You become prey in that situation I'm not bigger than yourself Does the Samsung Bible not say Depend on God But anyways my dilemma is The people who say I know the universe Has the best for me Is the universe And there's people who believe in affirmation And chanting Where you wake up and say I'm amazing, I'm powerful I love money, I attract money I have a relationship with good things And you stay in that vibration Of good words How do you cultivate that In people's minds and people's lives To people that have been blinded By very sad and dark reality Yes, we are all victims Of circumstances Their formations don't really work They don't work Let me say this, not the way you think they do If you're just waking up and you're looking at yourself In the mirror and you're uttering words That doesn't work, but if you hold it Within your mind, if you believe it From the very fiber of your being It will work I don't know if that makes sense Let me put it this way, if you want something And you inside yourself You don't think you can get it Even though you're saying that you want it If you doubt yourself Your words will bring forth That doubt and that is the experience That you will have in very many instances So if you go into an interview And you think you'll get the job because you don't have connections You won't get the job because Even though you carry yourself You think you're carrying yourself confidently But you're bringing off that vibe The other person can tell But they don't know how to explain it also They don't know what's happening I think I should be a body language expert Very soon Like being able to read people There's bosses who say If you step into this office, I knew you'll get this job Because your confidence Your posture, even your explanations Show confidence Body language, by the way, is very important You need to know how to read people The body never lies They can try to lie but it never lies When someone wants something from you If you are keen enough They will present themselves When something is off Yes, they are aware that people will present themselves I'd like you guys to give your personal Accounts of these religious extremes And how did the story go Maybe I can start with you John Like which one Maybe you could also have heard it Or maybe somebody close to you Or went through it How sad or crazy, interesting Or was it Personally, I've experienced one Is one that My brother Early experienced In a certain church in Nigeria I'm not going to I'll always not mention the church But there is This pastor When he's with his followers And he tells them That when you want to succeed In life You have first to get off your clothes And get bathed And then wash And funny enough He was washing the ladies The whole body In front of the church The whole body I love when it reaches When a man washes That was how crazy it was Which year was this This event happening Like five years ago That was how it was happening Until my brother left that church Because it was going crazy So My first question is How did your brother connect To this kind of mad situation How did he connect To this madness, to a point What was this person offering Okay, he was not offering something But it was through I don't know, it was connections He had a girlfriend And the girlfriend took him to that church And the girlfriend said You know, I was having Skin issues And I went to that church And right now I'm getting healed And my brother When he realized that And she's getting healed So the girlfriend took witness According to him But when he reached there He witnessed the whole thing Happening Were there any offs Because that was already off That's not even Godly That's evil Being undressed and being washed So that you get what? So that you get whatever you want In life I thought it was like get money Get a car On a condo or something This was just me on specific If you come to me Tell me I want to get a hundred million dollars So if you're washing my legs I'm guaranteed For me personally I believe if you're a prophet When I come to you I have to know my problems I'm not the one supposed to tell you That I'm suffering from this and that You're supposed to tell me that I know You're going through this and that But when you come to me and tell me That what is literally your problem That's not our prophet That's how your prophet told me Tell me your problem before I wash Can't you think that that is a false man of God? Shocking I'll come to you but What is the difference between a gang And a clear A clean man of God Let me use those words What's your interesting story On the same? First of all let me start with one that is very rampant Among the religious Institutions in Kenya You find that within churches And these religious places There is a sort of Community being built around it Whereby if you stop going to this church And start going to another church But the same Yes we are blacklisted by these church members The pastor tells them not to associate themselves with you Because you no longer go to this church That is something that is very rampant Across very many churches Is that not cultic now? No it's in every church This is in every church If I stop going to my church They'll blacklist me from going to another church Ask any person that goes to church And is within those circles So I've seen that happening severely And that's why I don't really I don't really see why I should go to church You don't go to church I saw these things And I was like I don't see I don't see any benefit to me But I've also seen a worse situation Where a lady was convinced By the pastor to Buy land And you know what happens is The pastor is a confidant So you tell the pastor everything So once the pastor realized that She wants to buy a piece of land The pastor convinced her to put the land Under his name And she did it All interventions of the family When the family tried to intervene The pastor started saying that Oh no your family they want to be with you This person wants to be with you This person does not want this Good thing for you So now the family became like the lady's enemy Stumbling block She ended up buying the land Putting it under the pastor's name And what happened Suddenly she passed on Eventually She got the sense She got the sense that she was being played And when she tried to get out of that The pastor told her that your days are limited And Yeah she died She died soon after that That was it And the land was in the pastor's name And what is the family saying? What can you do? When you try to get someone and they see you What is the court here? What is the rule of law? What is the constitution? How can you prove that in court? It's very difficult to prove that in court And you know the justice system in the country Is very slow And it also costs you money to get justice So in the end she is gone There's nothing much that you can really do But it was really a sad case And you can see How extreme this thing can go It can The case in the coast Is just an extreme But the same problem Manifests itself in smaller ways These small ways Whereby a pastor wants to tell you Don't marry this person You know? God has told me What is God telling you I'm also human like you Right? All this conversation is scary I can only imagine They're called gatekeepers You know these gatekeepers You keep tabs on all outlets They talk about religious content So I'm trying my best I want to be a victim Because I've been a victim before They say once, beaten twice So I'm limiting myself How do you tell the difference Between a clear person and a fishy Let me give this an example The reason I Also stopped going to church Is because there was a certain church That I was going in Oshago The Sunday Next Sunday, last Sunday Zoti, I keep preaching It's all about money I don't want coins I don't want coins In church I don't want coins attacking And funny enough What do we call it I'm just forgetting its name I don't know So that everyone knows So there's a certain When you don't give When you don't give enough money So what will happen next? What will happen next I don't want to go to church Because I've been repeating This time and time That I don't need coins in my church No I don't want to go to church Because the only ones They know it That was what was happening there There's a point you mentioned That What do we call it Like your brother's situation In Nigeria Is it What's happening On the ground I don't want to go to church But I don't want to Do you think God's time is the best How do we do that Prophet's1gapi Come to Mongwamin sema It will definitely happen next year That's the scripture I'm not the one saying But I'm also trying to Get the image of what you are saying Mongwamin sema And most of the people You would agree, Robin Most of the people come to and then somebody came and said, mungo ameni ambir, ninge ko e matatu, nihombe, blah, blah, blah, blah, it happens. And after that, I'm gonna collect one, two, three. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. And I can't know who is genuine and who is not. But then, mungo amemi sema, you know. How do we get a space and have this overview of God at least sema? I think that's where we are stuck. Because a lot of people get caught through mungo ameni ambir, mungo amemi sema. Mungo amemi sema okuje, kamomeva black and white. And last night, mungo liniu nyesha, okuje kamomeva red and yellow. And then open it, 10,000. Now back you, who are the next month. So how do you debunk this mungo amemi sema? I think, first of all, a big red flag is mungo amemi sema and then something specific to you. Mungo amemi sema that you should not do this. You should not be with this one. You should do this instead. That is a big red flag. Because really if God wanted to influence you in that way, God would influence you if he believed in God personally. So why is someone telling you that God is telling you don't do this job, go and do this other job? How? That's a big red flag. Don't let anyone tell you that God has said that you know, Kelly, you can't marry this lady. This lady is not right for you. God has told me to tell you that leave this one. There's another church member here, a member in the religious organization here that this one is good for you. No, no, no, no. Anyone that tells you God said this about you is a lie. If God said this about the situation you are in, then that is acceptable. Let's say you've lost your job and then they quote a scripture telling you about hope. I really don't know the scriptures, but I'm sure there's the passages about hope, about repentance and that kind of a thing. That is okay. But God is telling you something specific through the pastor. I really don't think so. Another thing, you are paying money to be prayed for. You are paying money for another human being to put their hands on you, believing that they have a sort of a direct connection with the most high-heel. They have this magical power in that accent. God bless you. Really? You go and get healed. That's a fallacy. No, and if they really have that direct connection, then their life would be so awesome in a way that you can't even imagine. But for some people it's working. It's working. I remember my co-host, Retia Valalisa, she had a friend of mine who I want to go through that. When I leave her and it goes and it works. Can I comment on that? Please do. There is a scientific experiment known as a placebo whereby they take subjects, let's say we are all sick and they give us tablets. But you find that one of us will be given a tablet that is not really medicine. But at the end of the test, you'll find that even you that took the tablet that is not medicine, you are healed. Why? Because you believed you were healed. So it can work because you believed that it will work and so it works. So it's not a belief system? It's a belief system. It can also work that way. You can go look it up online, a placebo. You can check it out. I think I know of a placebo. Now to you bro, do you feel like people are so hopeless? People are blinded by problems and we live in a bubble and we need to exit that bubble. But now who is going to give us the information that we need? But as I said, it's self, a sense of self. That means awareness. How many people are not aware of the reality of life? Like they just, I'm just scared. Oh, come on, come on, two, two, two, two. Boom, one, two, three, this shall happen. Here you are in a crisis. How easy is it? You see, like literally right now in Angalia, the cost of living is literally high. Now, in Angalia, this cost of living is high. And if you go, at least, you'll get some money. And the only way to get that money is through the profit. And then I say, I'm going through this. I want money. Profit and I say, OK, you want money? Give me this. Then you get what you want. And I think as a government right now, as a journalist, we go to school. That is communication, we read communication. As a pastor, you also have to go to school. Theology. You study theology. That's how it should happen. See, Konmantonam cannot say, I want to open a church. Then it goes up and opens a church. That's why I'm a pastor. There are people who are not aware of the reality of life. You have to go and study theology first before coming up and opening that church. Right. Brown, do you think people are so hopeless and in need for quick help and they're blinded by pain or just disaster? I think life can put you in a tough spot. If you're poor and you don't know where your next meal will come from, that is when people can sell you dreams and you'll believe the dreams. You really believe that if I put this 20 bob here, I can win 100 million. A rich man will never think like that. That's the reality of things. So what happens is really there's nothing much that the government can do. Regulating is a good idea, but really even the ones that have gone to theology school is not that they're any better than the guy who just woke up and decided, I want to open a church. Probably that guy is the honest one. Maybe that guy was a thief. The guy became saved. Once you see death, you can become saved. Maybe that's the genuine one. Well, the one who went to the school, he is seeing it like a business. Now on that point, the largest religious organizations are also the richest. And where is that? Where is this money coming from? And you know, we have this theory whereby it is tax-free. I don't know if it's true, but I get the feeling that it is true. It's tax-free. Donations and funding. It's tax-free. So really, if you look at this thing objectively, you'll realize that religion is a big industry. It is a money maker. And anything that has big money like that, you can't just come and infiltrate it and try to make reforms. It won't work. You cannot regulate churches in Kenya. It will be very difficult. No one will agree. The congregants will not agree to it. The pastors will not even look at you. They won't agree at all. It can't work like that. We have like six minutes before we exit. What is the difference between a Christian, Christianity, and religious religion? Because I believe those are two big different entities. A person who is a Christian and a person who is not even a person, as entities individually, a Christian and Christianity and religion. True. What is the difference now? And which side are we on? And what are we even talking about? I don't know why we're measuring on Christianity. There are so many religions. Religion, Buddhism, the rest. Christianity and religion or Hinduism and religion or any other of these religions and religions. These are just denominations. It's a big tree. These are just leaves on the tree. The branches. Now the problem is that many people think that being religious is showing up on Sunday in a nicely pressed suit. Or being a Christian or being a religious. Being a Christian. Many people think that to be a good Christian you have to show up. You have to be pious, having to look so humble. You have to give because when you give you receive you have to do these things. But you see that's not human nature. At the end of the day humans are just animals. We are smart animals but we are animals. What does that mean? That what drives us is self-interest. If you try to suppress your self-interest, your dark side, there's a philosopher called Kalyang. He talks about the shadow and the dark side. There's that part of you that is really dark. If you try to suppress it, it will find a way to come back in uglier ways. That's where you find someone is trying to become so holy. A book pause for a minute. Are you talking about another version of that Bible in the verse that says they cast out demons out of this body. But then when the demons went, it was like a crud, like a zinni. Is that another version of that? Yes. If you try to suppress yourself to become in a straight line that you should only do this, you can't do this and that. That pull will really pull on you and you will become worse. Let me give you a quick example. If you try to quit doing something, let's say you smoke. An addiction. If you try to quit smoking and then now you're counting days. I've not smoked today. Kesha won't smoke. You smoke, you relax. The only way to quit is to stop thinking about it. Let's use porn because a lot of people watch porn. The only way to quit anything is to stop fighting it. Once you start fighting it, you really can't win against yourself. You really can't win. You're fighting what you are. Kalyang said that for a man to change, the only way a man can change is to first accept himself as he is. That's the only way you can change. But society would say, if you do this then you're evil and you're going to hell. If we find you doing this, you're dead. But then here you are fighting it like you say. How do you thrive as a human? Because I can only imagine the battles happening in your mind and in your spirit and your body. You see, every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. That person that is trying to put you down because you're a sinner, you don't know them. They're probably just like you. And you know when someone hates you, they hate something in you that is like them. That's in them. That's how it is. We hate to see in other people what we don't like about ourselves. You think you hate someone, but really you hate them because there's something that mirrors you that you see in them that you hate about yourself. You guys get those lessons. Are we exiting? I want to sample feedback in 30 seconds. Go ahead. For me, religious and Christianity. For you to be a Christian, there is only one thing that you need to do. Set your mentality. In that, you just believe that God exists. That is enough. When you just say or when you just, you know, create your mentality that God exists, that is enough for you to be called a Christian. That is all. Before we exit, Kamau Musenangu says, Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. four green love emojis, and then I can say M'akina Ngop Yandara County, well-represented as usual. And then I can say Manabio Kwanzaa, who I doubt N'ayeni M'akensi, Etiwashi Rikawa, Sinyue Wasiile, he can Yantahamani in the Kiambu. Eh, he seems like Kiambundokuna, soft life. And then the last one, and it will appear, Afin. And I say, good morning. Why 244? Mayani called Locked Insana. And the rest, including Andenis, Kei, Lewis, Kei, and Waweru, are keyboard. Thank you so much for your feedback. Social media, faster, faster. We'll do a part two of this conversation because it can't end social media very fast. Instagram, at Krishnajonrai, Twitter, at Krishnajonrai, Facebook, Krishnajonrai, and TikTok, Krishnajonrai. At Kelly Brevin on all socials. I'm only on Twitter and Instagram. Okay. And I think we can call it a day. We will do a part two, if the production allows. That's not been an interesting conversation, by the way. What do you think? What are the extremes that you also experience as well? Tell us on that hashtag. Why in the morning at 244 channel at Brian's Corner One. And by the way, remember to follow us on TikTok and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We call it a day. See you tomorrow for entrepreneurship Tuesday. Have a fantastic Hava Bang Monday. Okay. Because we are having a bang as well. See you tomorrow.