 Okay, well, let's let's get started. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Shaw Sprague and I'm the vice president of government relations for the National Trust. And I will be moderating today's webinar, which we've titled affordable housing and historic preservation opportunities for 2024. So very important subject, and we are very excited to have a great panel for you today. A few housekeeping items first preservation leadership forum is the professional membership program of the National Trust. And this webinar series is made possible by the members of preservation leadership forum so we're grateful for all the members that are on and with us today. So for today's webinar, we will be taking an in depth look at the intersection of historic preservation and federal housing policy. And we're looking at how these different but interrelated priorities can work together to help solve the affordable housing crisis facing the nation, and what opportunities and challenges lie ahead for 2024. We, again, have a great program for you today and a few more logistics webinar logistics for you. Our panelists will first present on their respective topic areas, and then we'll dedicate the last portion of the webinar to discussion. So you should feel free to send questions to the group via the q amp a function, but we will unlikely get to your questions but we do intend to do our best to capture questions, and we'll will encourage our panelists to answer. During the webinar but for those questions we can't get to we will follow up either in a communication to you or in a blog post or some other communication following the webinar. But you are all nonetheless encouraged to communicate to all participants via the chat function. A couple other items the closed captioning function is enabled for this webinar. And following the program, we will send out a recording of the webinar directly to the email that you use to register. And finally, all form webinars are available on our National Trust YouTube channel. So please be sure to check that out. And with that, I wanted to open our conversation with a few thoughts to contextualize the affordable housing crisis and the important role historic preservation will play in helping solve this problem. First, older and historic buildings have an important role to play in helping shape the policies designed to increase housing affordability and expanding the supply of market rate housing. The quality of the problem calls for an all the above approach to affordable housing creation and retention. According to the National Low Income Housing Coalition, there is an overall housing shortage of 7.3 million units in the nation. So new construction alone is simply not keeping pace with the demand for housing. The historic preservation requirements are viewed as a barrier to increasing supply of both market rate and affordable housing. But underutilized older and historic buildings represent a vitally important opportunity for rehabilitation and adaptive reuse for housing of all types. But how might the historic preservation movement help change the narrative in 2024. The Council on Historic Preservation recently updated its housing policy guidance suggesting ways for historic preservation can better support housing creation. We're looking forward to hearing more from advisory council chair Sarah Bronen on the updated policy and what we might expect in the months to come. Most historic districts play an important role in preserving architectural fabric, historic buildings, and community character. Preservation and planning work hand in hand to ensure the conservation of housing stock and while at the same time promoting economic revitalization. As calls resonate for zoning reform and ways land use controls might evolve to accommodate more housing. What best practices exist for harmonizing these historic preservation and housing objectives. We're very pleased to have Jason Jordan with us today with the American Planning Association. Jason is APA's political affairs director and he is responsible for strategic outreach to decision makers and influencers who interact with the planning profession. The APA is at the center of the housing policy debate and has developed robust guidance on preserving historic and cultural resources. Thank you for being here, Jason. And finally, since the start of the pandemic, we have witnessed a dramatic shift away from our downtowns abandoning once highly valued office space converting office space to multi use and residential uses puts of adaptive reuse solutions at the center of the housing debate. And this is good news for the preservation community. We find ourselves at a moment when adaptive reuse is being talked about by new audiences as part of the solution. In fact, as noted by the American Institute of Architects for the first time in 20 years renovations have overtaken new construction and architectural buildings in the United States. This is the language of preservation and a key moment for the preservation community to demonstrate just how valuable a tool adaptive reuse is and how it can be done well. And how well will office conversions perform in meeting this housing need with us today. Allison tune in to Lamo, an engineer by training and an associate with Klein and Hoffman in Chicago. Allison and the team at Klein and Hoffman have helped convert YMCA buildings into affordable housing rehabilitated properties that have historically provided affordable housing and converted office buildings into housing. So thank you for joining us today Ali. And we wanted to turn it over to our first presenter chair. So Sarah with, without further ado, we'll, we'll turn it over to you. Thank you for being here. Great. Thanks Sean. Thanks for providing that really compelling introduction to this issue and why we are all here today. As Shaw said, I'm Sarah Brown and I'm the chair of the advisory council on historic preservation. And first I wanted to talk about just, what is that I had next slide. I'd love to introduce you to our members. You already know one of them very well the National Trust for Historic Preservation. The council is an independent federal agency with 24 members. And it's those members that come together to vote on important policies, like the one I'm going to talk about today, and that set out the way that we will perform our other responsibilities that were designated as under the National Historic Preservation Act. And those include nine federal agencies and the architect of the capital at eight presidential appointees of which I am one and I guess I'm the only full time member of the council, a governor, mayor, a tribal member, and then the National Trust, the National Conference of State Historic Preservation Officers and the National Association of Tribal Historic Preservation Officers. And to give you this laundry list to tell you that when the advisory council does adopt a policy statement, it represents a broad spectrum of views in preservation, including what you might consider official views, like the federal authorities and the shippers and appointees and experts and public members are included among those, as well as elected officials and usually our tribal member is also an elected official like our current one chairman Reno Franklin is for his tribe is an anathema to playing a role in the federal historic preservation framework alongside the state historic preservation officers. So you get this, this array of views, which really helps to inform our discussions. In our next slide we'll see the two functions of the advisory council as I like to point out the first one is probably the one if you've heard of the advisory council you know best, which is our oversight of the section 106 review process. And this is a provision of the National Historic Preservation Act that triggers a review of federal agency undertakings to see whether these federal agency actions are have impacts on historic resources. So just flag that briefly brief overview of one of six because I'll mention it in a moment. But that I would say is the bulk of what the agency does the bulk of the staff is devoted to one of six reviews, and really managing that process and administering it as as we've laid it out in our own regulations. But the second function in very general terms of the advisory council is in fact embedded in its name and that is advice. So we're made, we were made by statute to advise the President Congress and state and local governments on preservation policy. I submitted a report to the White House, a triennial report on federal stewardship of historic properties. So we certainly take that seriously. In today's discussion about our housing policy statement. I wanted to first explain why we decided to, to update that statement. There was one from 2006. So I guess you could say we are revising now and in 2020, 2023 when it was passed. But that policy statement was in a way limited in scope if any of you were familiar with it or participated in the development of it. It was primarily limited to the way federal government agents federal agencies should treat housing in that section 106 review process that I mentioned. And its scope was limited to affordable housing. Now Shaw described in his introductory comments the need for us to consider and everything, you know, do it all approach, trying to promote the supply of housing that includes market rate that includes affordable housing. As he said, existing buildings, historic buildings can help address this crisis. It's sometimes seen as a barrier to housing. And I do think that as the federal historic preservation agency tasked with helping to set the stage for the federal government and our state local partners on preservation policy. We really had a responsibility to update that policy statement and really get to the very best practices that we can embed in it and demonstrate leadership in that regard. So in the policy statement itself, there are 13 principles. And I'm going to cover a few of them today that I think are maybe most relevant, but this provides you with an overview of the topics that are covered. First and foremost, the historic tax credit, a topic that has been the subject of previous National Trust forums preservation leadership forums and many of you have been involved in tax credit projects. The need for us to continue to support that program and expand it among states is critically important. Other principles talk about reuse and maintenance, building codes, accessibility, energy retrofitting, out leasing of public buildings, flexible federal guidance, which I'll talk a little bit about as well, and research education and collaboration. So that's the overview. I'm going to dig into a couple of these a little bit more. I guess you would say big categories of principles that we embedded in this policy statement, which is about 10 pages long. It's not not an extremely lengthy document. But the overview provided in that document with all of these principles is really for us to say, you know, as a federal government as our partners that are involved in the advisory council and for state and local officials, we should embrace these these principles. So the first one, as I said, expand historic tax incentives for housing that goes both the state level that I mentioned, but also expanding historic tax credits to ensure they can be paired with low income housing tax credits and renewable renewable energy tax credits. These, these really technical tax rules are in many ways key to our ability as preservationists to address some of the bigger issues that we are called on that are really obligated to address. So, you know, some of our eyes might glaze over and reading through those details, but the big picture has to be we've got to keep keep expanding that program. So the authorization and renewable energy funding, you know, again, just like preservation can play a big role in housing. We also have to think about the extent to which through housing rehabs we can play a big role in addressing the climate crisis. So supporting funding for that is embedded in this policy statement. We also recognize that there are other, I would say, enduring and potentially age related concerns associated with historic buildings that that tend to make less suitable for housing in certain circumstances. So hazard mitigation is something that's addressed in the policy statement, whether that's let as best as mold or other environmental health hazards. We as preservationists need to promote the resolution and mitigation of those hazards, even if it means losing some historic fabric, you know, balancing that with the need to protect human health is something that we prioritize in the statement. You know, in the next grouping, I would call it zoning building in the ADA. The policy statement really talks about tackling the questions that I know Jason Jordan will be discussing next on zoning. The policy statement calls explicitly for the kind of density that we used to have in many historic neighborhoods. So this is not a, this is an old idea that got edited out through zoning and other rules that mostly happen at the local level. But that is preservationists we should fight bring back in order to ensure that our historic neighborhoods have the density they once had. That includes things like accessory dwellings and includes things like making sure we can fill those those vacant lots that in many historic places have sat empty for too long office commercial conversions and multi family housing as well. Preservation standards that that we apply with building codes and accessibility requirements, both of those, all three of those regulations need to start working together a little bit more effectively. And we talk about some of the priorities that preservationists can set in the policy statement. Thinking about our review process. And this is where, you know, we get into back into that section 106. That concept on the next slide. We really do need at the federal level to update our processes for projects affecting housing, historic buildings that already are housing and conversions to housing. So thinking about ways to more flexibly and creatively address impacts to historic properties and effects to character defining features that again is explicitly stated in the policy statement as a goal and one in fact that the advisory council can can bring to fruition. Moving on to implementation. And here's Liberty tower in New York City. If we go to the next slide. Thinking about our agency's ability to carry forward some of the ideas in the policy statement. We've already started implementing it, even though it was just past December in December. We're going full steam ahead. Thanks to our excellent staff. And we're developing new guidance on housing, including articulating how adverse effects, which is that that that thing that federal agencies want to avoid shouldn't be considered under 106. How certain activity can or cannot be considered adverse effects on historic buildings when it comes to housing. And we're also considering a government wide what's called a program alternative a flexibility tool for housing. On the next slide, it kind of embedded in that process. We have been reviewing federal public comments, any of which you submitted, I bet. On the secretary of the interior standards for the treatment of historic properties, not to. Not to call out any one body, certainly not the park service, not local commissions, not state historic preservation offers, but to, but to reflect collectively on how the application and interpretation of those standards is actually done in the field. That should say publishing suggestions. I was maybe over optimistic. I think they'll come out on Tuesday. Let's go slight edit to the slide. But I do think that the report that I will be issuing to the council might help again for all of us as preservationists to reflect on the extent to which strict interpretations of the standards at all levels. You know, not not calling anyone entity out might be something that we as preservationists need to reflect on and and work to change to the extent that those that strictness isn't necessary. And then finally just looking at state and local advising. I just went to Charleston next week. I love that visit. So if any of you guys are out there calling in from Charleston. You're so lucky. But they had asked me to come in and talk about actually the housing policy and our climate policy and what at the local level might be embedded into local rules. We are doing more of that to to understand how you as a representative of the state or local government or a state or local entity and nonprofit might be able to request our, our advice on draft legislation that might implicate historic properties. Please visit that website and check out the ways in which a CHP might be involved. We did just submit a letter to the Florida legislature on a proposed bill that would negatively impact coastal properties and explaining how within the broad constellation of things we know about preservation and the federal preservation framework. Such a bill might might be in need of amendment. So check that out. I welcome your, your input. And with that, I'm going to pass it over to my friend at the APA Jason Jordan. Thanks everyone. Thank you, Sarah. It's always great to share a program with you and applaud all the great work that you're doing. At the council. Thank you, Shaw. Thank you to the trust for inviting me and APA to participate in this important discussion. This is a topic very much on our minds as housing and zoning reform have become a critical priority for not only APA but the planning movement across the country. And there's a great moment of opportunity and intersection with the preservation community. So if we could go to the next slide. Let me just say a quick word to sort of set the context here. I know this is something that seems obvious to probably everyone on this call, but it's worth sort of calling out at the, at the outset that the nation confronts a housing crisis that is in part a crisis of supply. And for a lot of people working in housing, I think historically we focused a lot on the demand side of tackling the housing crisis and that's appropriate. Those subsidies are critical and certainly APA supports them. At the same time, I think we've come to appreciate that part of the problem is very much on the supply side of the equation. And that's where a lot of the regulatory structures that my members are partly responsible for come into play. We also know through research that we've supported through the up for growth coalition that the problem of under supply in the country is increasing. It's getting worse year over year, but it's also spreading. So a problem that was largely focused on large coastal communities a few years ago is now actually increasing most rapidly in ex urban areas and in rural areas and certainly the trends coming out of the pandemic of work from home have only accelerated that. And what we're seeing is that this conversation about how do we tackle housing supply is now driving the political agenda in lots of places at all levels of government. So we see it turn up at the local level. We see it increasingly at the state level and even here in Washington where I am as part of our approach to tackling housing supply. I thought it was important to start with some definitional work. So when we think of supply, we're really focusing on diverse housing types. So creating new options for people across the spectrum, making sure that housing is attainable and affordable. Again, not just capital A affordable housing, although that's critically important but thinking about housing affordability writ large. And of course, no conversation about zoning and the land use rules in this country can ignore the fact that there's an equity conversation that's part of this as well given the history of zoning in particular. So the next slide, I think it's worth sort of talking about why zoning reform has become such a major policy concern at really at the center of this housing affordability crisis in the under supply problem because there's a lot of ways you could tackle under supply and a lot of ways you can tackle housing. But this focus on zoning and codes and regulations, I don't think is accidental. When you think about the drivers here of the problem. Some of them are clearly related to labor, whether that's about productivity, or the supply of labor, the cost, it could be about the materials themselves the so called lumber challenges, the cost of materials supply chain disruptions. And then of course the land itself housing has to be built on something and there are obviously market and political constraints associated with that but they're also the regulatory structure of zoning and codes. Now if you're a politician or an elected official or someone trying to solve this problem by pulling a policy lever. I think when you look at those those opportunities it becomes clear that the lowest hanging fruit really set tackle the things that you have direct control of and where a change now can make a near term difference and that's why I think the conversation about zoning reform has has moved forward as rapidly as it has. And on the next slide, sort of demonstrate the the widespread nature of this activity focusing on the states. So in just the last three years. A dozen states across the country have taken major actions and even larger number have taken smaller actions but the states that you see highlighted they're either past major zoning reform legislation, or the governor put forward in executive order. So that that's a significant amount of activity in a short period of time, but fast forward just to the first month and a half of 2024. We already see many of those same states coming back for a second bite at the apple of reform and a much larger growing number of states who are actively debating changes right now so we are certainly anticipating that the ranks of states taking state level action on zoning reform will increase this year and we're probably on the early side of the trend line with more states likely to take action in the years to come. If you go to the next slide focus a little bit on what exactly that action looks like. And it's different, of course, in lots of different places so in some places we're seeing a menu of reform options that locals can avail themselves of and if they select a certain number of those reforms and implement those and they qualify for various incentives whether that's an upfront incentive to do better planning or whether it's a backside incentive on the capital side to support housing development or in some cases the infrastructure related to supporting housing development. We are seeing a number of states moving to preempt local authority over certain aspects of land use controls. We're seeing states who are looking at the underlying planning statutes themselves what our communities enable to do under state law or setting policy goals and then allowing more local control as it relates to achieving those goals and objectives. Some places are focusing on technical assistance in other places, many of those other reforms are being combined with states at targets for production and affordability with back end enforcement mechanisms. We're beginning to see this more in the West Coast, a so called builders remedy opportunities that are essentially enforcement mechanisms. We're also seeing environmental review reform, because unfortunately, the environmental review process in some places sort of being weaponized if you will, against housing development in ways that probably aren't consistent with the underlying intent of those laws. And then lastly, emphasis on workforce housing and infrastructure development have a major housing component so you were seeing many states take action in concert there so that's just a look at some of the broad actions that the states are doing. On the next slide we'll take a little bit closer look at what's happening when you get to that local level because even when you have states that are taking major actions at the end of the day. Those mandates flow down to localities who have to handle the implementation and this is just sort of our thinking about what locally led reform typically looks like. First, no surprise probably coming from the APA, but you lead with planning planning that identifies your core assets and sets in place. The objectives that you're trying to meet and how you want to go about meeting them. Our view is that one of the most important aspects of overall reform is having the controversies at the right part of the process upfront as part of the planning discussion, as opposed to the project by project that it often unfolds now so leading with the planning process as it relates to the regulatory side once you have that plan in place once there's a community vision established. We need to do a better job of simplifying and consolidating things like zoning districts and the very sort of large layers of complexity that have found their way into many codes. Thirdly, you add flexibility. So if we simplify our codes, then we create more flexibility within the standards and within the constructs of the plan itself. Local government can do a lot to speed its own processes so that we're moving things faster in our conversations with developers. This is the most important thing for them and many instances from the financial perspective is making the process predictable and as fast as possible. And then lastly avoid excess discretionary reviews and try to move that more into a ministerial review process based on standards that everybody knows and understands. So that's kind of the general ecosystem, if you will, of what many of the individual look led solutions look like on the next slide. Just give you a sense of what we're seeing individual communities do in this space, some of which directly relates to the role of preservation and affordable housing and housing development not going to go through these in detail but just wanted to give you an overall sense of the universe here at the sort of low hanging fruit into the spectrum we're seeing a growing number of communities eliminate parking minimums. We're seeing a lot of work on accessory dwelling unit reform and not just permitting them, but actually changing some of the structures to facilitate their development. A big focus on that density that Sarah talked about in terms of legalizing various missing middle housing typologies. Moving back toward by right multifamily housing development, especially in the areas that it makes the most sense commercial districts and transit. There's a lot of have a lot of stuff happening around building codes, particularly some on the single stair design side of things. I mentioned the permitting and streamlining of review processes commercial conversions or an adaptive reuse are also very big topics at the moment. For all the reasons that Shaw articulated at the outset so we're seeing a lot of work in that space. We're also seeing the use of overlay zone techniques to try to advance the concerns about ensuring that we're protecting historic districts and historic properties that were protecting cultural assets and heritage at the same time and in the same context of driving additional housing supply. So if you go to the next slide. I'm not going to go through this at all this is a just a recent Pew study that's only about a month old that demonstrates broad public support across geographies and political orientation around these very specific kinds of reforms. So even though in any individual jurisdictions these conversations get very controversial. It doesn't that that controversy doesn't necessarily represent the broad range of views about these sorts of changes. Doesn't always make it easy politically but there is strong public support which again I think is one of the reasons that we see so much change and when you dig a little bit deeper into that public support. You see a very sharp demographic divide younger people who feel very much shut out of housing opportunity in this country are really at the forefront of driving this change. If you go to the next slide. I just want to talk a little bit about the federal level. We are seeing an unprecedented level of federal interest in what has historically been the purview of localities almost exclusively and that is all of these zoning and land use and housing related issues. And it's very bipartisan if you go back to the Obama administration through the Trump administration and certainly now at an even higher level in the Biden administration. There has been the steady drum beat at the federal level to evaluate exactly where the regulatory obstacles are to the provision of affordable housing and whether or not there are federal levers that can be used to drive some of that change. One new program that has emerged that I'll mention very quickly is hud's pro housing program, which is a new grant program aimed at localities to try to do the planning analysis and provide the capacity support for the regulatory reform. The changes in the zoning codes the updates of housing plans and housing action plans. It's a it's a new direction for federal involvement. It's clearly on the incentive side as opposed to the stick side, but it's an important new federal tool. It was funded for one year. It's up for renewal for a second year of funding. We certainly hope that that's the case. But we're seeing a steady drum beat of other kinds of federal interventions. Aimed at promoting incentivizing this sort of change that that communities are focusing on in terms of overall zoning reform. If you go to the next slide. I just want to start close here by thinking a little bit about the critical role for preservation in all of the reform efforts that I was talking about and I think, you know, preservation. Is really critical for anyone who's focused on housing and housing supply at the local level for the four C's there on on this on the slide. They're real climate impacts to focusing on preserving and reusing existing building structures opposed to just new construction. We know that the cost ultimately is less if we preserve existing affordable housing if we preserve the fabric of housing that already exists while we're adding additional supply so there's a cost element here. Certainly there's a cultural element as it relates to preserving the cultural assets of a community. And fourth, and I think this is something that we don't talk enough about, which is, it's one way to reach consensus amidst what can be a very, very volatile and hostile conversation when it comes to making these sorts of changes at the local level. People have deep attachment to the existing fabric of their community. And so if there's a way to talk about ensuring that that is protected while we're also adding new density and new housing supply. That's that's a big part of the overall equation for ensuring there's broad public support for the changes in terms of some thoughts about how preservationist can engage in this conversation in a productive way to be part of the coalition driving reform. One is, I think to come at this squarely inside a pro supply context. I think about this a lot in terms of how do we create processes that get us to yes, as opposed to many of the existing systems that seem designed to get us to know. Secondly, engaging in that planning process and being part of leading with planning and ensuring that these conversations are happening early on in the process is critically important. Third, and this I think is true for all of the advocates involved in the process. If we can focus on shared outcomes, I think it really helps us when we're debating the best way to get there. And then lastly, there are a lot of new tools that are important in helping the public understand and engage in making good decisions about what their community needs to look like, whether that's scenario tools or other other ways to use technology to help people understand what the real choices are in front of them and what the real outcomes are that they want. So if you go to the next slide here, I just want to close by mentioning an initiative that we're involved with with our colleagues at the National League of Cities called the Housing Supply Accelerator. And this is an effort that also involves the National Association of Realtors, the Home Builders and the Mortgage Bankers Association to really bring together the stakeholders across the full spectrum of housing production to identify those locally led solutions. We're going to be releasing a playbook in April, so encourage you all to take a look at that when it's released. I think there will be a lot of very specific ideas that will be valuable for your work at the local level. And lastly, I'll just mention some APA resources that we have available, a series of policy guides on these topics that provide deep dive information. Our advocacy agenda is also available very squarely focused on this topic. And then for those of you who are more involved in the professional practice side, a lot of resources that are more aimed at practitioners. And we do have a new policy guide in development right now that's going to be focused on the role of historic preservation in the housing conversation. We're very excited about that. So thanks for the opportunity. Appreciate being here. And I will turn it over to Ali to talk a little bit about what some of this looks like on the ground. Thank you so much. That was impressive. I want to quickly thank the National Trust for bringing out of work to speak on this panel discussion. I'm going to be joining these two powerhouse speakers. So very interesting topics. So hello, everyone, my name is Alison Tune and Talamo. I'm an associate three here at Klein and Hoffman based in Chicago, Illinois. So hoping to provide a different light when it comes to housing and historic preservation as a building enclosure consultant and how we work with the team on a project. Next slide. I want to give you a little background about myself. I received my bachelor's in architecture and my master's in structural engineering at Illinois through technology here in Chicago. I've worked with my firm Klein and Hoffman for almost nine years. And as a building enclosure consultant restoration architect, we kind of have a lot of different titles over the years. So in fact, as I've studied engineering and architecture, so I know both worlds within the world and within the firm specifically I work on a handful of various tasks performing proposal business development, performing historic research, hands on investigation, working on construction documents, you know, more or less from start to finish I'm working on a project doing something. This has been pretty good at introducing us early on into different types of projects, different types of materials so we've come well rounded individuals in our profession, and what kind of gravitated to us, like what we like. So with me, I have learned that my calling was historic preservation, and I worked with a lot of buildings regards to masonry concrete coatings and specifically cast iron is my thing. So my quick tie into the National Trust is I was one of the recipients in 2022 for the American Express Award. Next slide. Next I'm going to talk about my firm Klein and Hoffman. We are a structural and architectural firm here in Chicago as our headquarters and we also have a Philly and Milwaukee office. We have in addition to our professionals we have a lot of people that are licensed in various states so we do travel as well to tend to our projects. Next slide. So with our offer we with our firm we do offer a wide range of services depending on the project and the client's needs. We primarily work only on existing buildings, whether they're vintage landmark, or more of a modern era of buildings. We also work on moving structures if they need to be moved for new development or being threatened for demolition, we also assist with additions, and we do work with a bigger team when it comes to altering buildings for a new purpose. The next thing that highlights specifically on the architectural team is we do serve provide services in regards to exterior window roofing components of the building so we only really work on the exterior side less on the interior. Next slide. So I want to present a couple of case studies or projects that we've actually worked on over the years. One of them is Rosenwald courts on the south side of Chicago. So this property is got a very, very rich history of tenants and how it serves the community over the years. It's always been a structure serving for you know housing, and it's kind of changed in program a little bit but still in the tier of housing. One of the most key tenants that you might recognize is you know, Nate King Cole to Ellington Jesse Owens and Robert Taylor. So with that we always want to make sure that we preserve the history and also the tenants and also the community understands who's lived in this space. You can go to the next slide. So sadly, you know our time when it was constructed 1929. The doors closed in 1999, and it stayed vacant for very many years. Around 2003. Next slide. You could start seeing the movement of trying to protect the structure. It was listed on the national registry, or it was listed on the national trust endangered properties. And it was a big hunt to look for a new owner and trying to bring life to the community as you see here. Next slide. Our office specifically served as a building enclosure consultant and structural engineer team assisting with exterior facade trying to match in kind with the materials that we have there. And then also trying to provide any oversight in regards to the construction and cost impact and schedule. Our structural team specifically reviewed the structural elements design repairs. And if the design team was going to implement a new program into the building itself we were there to oversee and provide assistance. And you could kind of see a photo in the middle where we had new brick and mortar being incorporated into the existing building. So we were very keen and trying to match as best as we can to the surrounding areas. And then you could kind of see the new development on the, on the right hand side earlier. And then here's a before and after photo of what originally was to what it stands as now. Since the property was originally for housing related the owner decided to keep the theme of housing present but focus more on senior and family based systems. The rooms and square footage grew and provided more amenities for the 10 and it's because that was something that that was very important to the, to the community, as well as providing area for additional commercial space along the storefront. Next slide. So the next case that I'm going to show you guys is the Lawson House also here in Chicago on the north side of the city. With this it was built in 1931 originally utilized for affordable housing and primarily served for the community for different activities throughout the years. It's been 50 years, but it's actually been 90 plus years of serving as affordable housing. And then the switcheroo that they had in 2014 with the wholesome development is they sold the property for a dollar. As long as they could extend the concept of housing for this building for 50 plus years, which they agreed to do. And our team specifically served as building closure consultants, removing fire escapes, helping the team implement a fire proof stairwell system and modifications to elevators and trying to bring the facade to its brain here as it used to be. Next slide. So I'm going to show you photos of exterior but I'm going to talk a little bit more about the development of the property just to kind of give you guys a scale the magnitude. So with the delimited the old housing approach for this property wholesome development team was very keen on trying to increase the square footage. The, you know, the amenities that they originally had like a pool system. They more or less kept as a time capsule. In case someone were to purchase the building later down the road they have it pretty much set in place. They just have to remove the foam and plexiglass system to kind of bring it back. They're playing homage to the Chicago athletic club here along North Michigan. You can go to the next slide. So they were very keen on it. Again, you know we're showing here a lot of the exterior work that was being done we had a lot of damage to terracotta units and then we're trying to restore him to back what it was. So the interior side wholesome team utilize the fact that they had the existing windows there they didn't change the, the sizing of the windows they didn't change the construction they kept it more or less to what it was. They use the window systems and the hallways to dictate what the floor system or the floor rooms patterns we're going to be and then also implemented efficient kitchens bathrooms that were also accessible so all the tenant spaces are accessible for anyone that would come to this property. Next slide. Kind of showing how much of decoration was to the exterior facade we had a lot of issues with supporting steel. So trying to restore all that to making sure it's buttoned up for her to last 50 plus years. Next slide. And this is kind of the final product of the project of in regards to the facade what it looked like. We asked to find a couple of postcards of what the cert the rooms used to be. They were kind of dormitories very tight spaces they didn't have their own private bathrooms. They had a pool they had a chapel they had specialty rooms that were a log cabin, more of an Italian style location. So it's just, it's a very unique building when it comes to how it was constructed. They tell us that you know some of the floor plates actually were like Swiss cheese because over the years, changing of the program trying to accommodate more people trying to fit more offices for the YMCA was something that was very, you know, challenging over time so they had to go back pretty much start from fresh from the interior side, and being able to accommodate and give these new tenants more dignity, more humane settings for living. So I was kind of showing you that's how the turnout of it became the next slide. So with that that's kind of an example of some of the case studies that we've worked on on this property so thank you. Well Ali thank you very much that's, it's always fun for preservationists to see the on the ground work and some of the ideas captured from chair bronan and Jason Jordan. So turning now to our discussion. There do seem to be a few questions resonating that that we had that also seem to be resonating in the chat. So I'd like to start there. And first go to Sarah and then to Jason. Because you know we see here the word increased density and that that can shake some nerves as to what that means in terms of demolition. And Sarah a CHP policy guidance encourages public serving institutions to explore innovative ideas like form based codes to better balance housing creation and preserving historic buildings. I'm wondering if you might take a moment to just describe how the new policy guidance might help promote those opportunities, along with the concept of achieving density without demolition. Sure so within the policy statement the key provision to look at is provision number three, which is a bit of a list of potential tools that communities might use. And people in those communities might advocate for to promote density without demolition I mentioned a couple of them in my presentation. Accessory dwelling units, allowing for compatible infill removing minimum parking requirements that one is. If you really dig into the history of zoning it was something that was made up in the 1950s 1960s and included in zoning codes all over the country and resulted in lots of historic buildings including on main streets being torn down. Many of those buildings did have housing mixed in as well. So minimum parking requirements is a big one. And maybe a little bit of an off the wall or rarely used idea but transferable development rights, which could incentivize rehabilitations of historic buildings. By allowing those business those property owners to sell the rights to build more densely and in other parts of the city. And, you know, you mentioned form based codes. The idea of the pattern books the idea of design guidelines for new development. Those kinds of ideas be embedded in form based codes and should be considered. If what we want is compatible compatible new development, but as preservationists being involved in those conversations and proactively saying, oh no we actually want we actually want this. And here's how we'd like to see it happen is something that I think we should get, get more involved in and something that our members through the policy statement voted to endorse. Thank you. The creative approaches I think are all should be on the table and with that turning to you Jason and sticking with the zoning side. You know, there are there are concepted zoning like conservation districts and you mentioned overlay zones and we've we've seen recently research coming out of Los Angeles on historic preservation overlay zones as as as a new thinking about what that might mean how how instead of a traditional thought where they might be just preserving historic fabric and architecture, expanding that concept to include preservation of affordable housing. And diversity of how of different types of housing which you mentioned as a key part of the solution. Which we've seen have some success. You know, that's what these these some of these districts have shown to demonstrate is that they do do a good job of preserving different housing types. But maybe you can speak to some of those innovations in the different either existing zone path zoning that that could be refreshed and new thinking or just new ideas altogether. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll just second what Sarah said that, you know, I think there's a lot embedded in our existing structures that have actually had a pretty pernicious legacy when it comes to its impact on historic property. So this is a refreshing conversation to be able to go back and look at things like parking requirements but as it relates to things like overlay zones, conservation districts heritage districts. You know, I think the key thing here there are a lot of different tools and I would point folks to a recent report that we did just last month as part of our zoning practice resource that's on using those tools for the preservation of what we call naturally occurring affordable housing, which is an approach that a lot of communities are taking particularly when there are severe development pressures. You know, where there's a lot of interest in larger scale new multifamily construction, other kinds of luxury property development, you know, how do we protect so there's a lot of work being done there and I would point you to that resource for a lot of very specific examples. I will say generally though, one of the concepts I think is most important here is the degree to of intentionality behind these things are thinking very hard about what it is we want to preserve what stories need to be preserved in those communities and how can that be reflected in a more modernized approach to to our regulatory structure I think I think that's that's where it starts and honestly if we can get the planning process out of becoming the zoning police and back into the business of helping residents and communities think about what it is that they want what the vision is, then we can have better conversations about the rules that we need to have in place that allow us to get just that right the kinds of forms that we want to see more of in our communities, the kinds of forms that need to be protected and how we provide housing opportunity for everybody as opposed to trying to come up with one size fits all standards that have created. Unfortunately, a lot of bureaucratic layers that aren't really serving any of us very well including on preservation advocate so this is an opportunity I think to rethink some of those things without necessarily throwing all of the tools that we have away I'm not an abolitionist by any means here I do think getting the conversation around to things like form based codes and more flexible and adaptable approaches can be really helpful in achieving the goals I think we all share here. That's great and Jason there was a question about the name of the report you referenced so if you don't mind plugging that into the chat I think folks would be interested to to see that. Ali over over to you and just interested in your thoughts. We touched a few times on the notion of office conversions. And, and you mentioned different materials and we're coming up on the 19 mid 1970s as being 50 years old and a lot new materials to be to be thinking about and to speak to both opportunities and challenges of some of the new materials that are coming online in that 50 year span and and also just any quick reaction that you might have to the office conversion and and just some of the broad contours of the challenges and and opportunities that that presents. So within our team we have seen a handful of buildings that have been converted from former office buildings or warehouses into residential, but a lot of times we do see that in more of a condo sending than affordable housing, but it's, it's we do see a very big interest coming in the prior mirror that we have here in Chicago, she implemented like the LaSalle corridor so that was, you know putting funding to support office buildings that are pretty much left vacant or can't really support themselves and bringing in housing and commercial space to kind of bring the new life downtown area. It's kind of a slow moving target at this point, but the city hasn't given up with that idea and I do appreciate that and I hope it does go forward, because it will present a different topography and building stock and viewpoints. Very similar to what was discussed early in the conversations, you know, a lot of people do have that that fear of like oh it's an office building can't become a home for anyone. That's true you just need a good team, you need a good developer you need a good owner that knows how to be smart when it comes to finances and also keeping that vision moving forward, because we do see a lot of people that might just get scared off because they can't financially drive that project and that's if they just utilize the resources and tools that is doable and again this is kind of like out of my wheelhouse, but I do see that happening I do see that pressure I, I do see the space similar to wholesome development you know working on the loss and house like they weren't afraid they just went full force and they're what it really could to bring the structure up to what it needs to be and to serve the community better. Now, going into the concept of, you know, more modern structures and how, how they age out. That's a little bit of a different conversation because at least with our type of our position as an engineer and architect that we've seen as a forensic you know we study materials we know how materials fail in the city sense and the climates that we deal with. You know, 1950s is probably when we started seeing people playing around or exploring how materials can work. So that's why we see an influx on material failure like condensation. You know, if you do a full glass for the glass ceiling window system you know that energy performance is not there. It's just trying to retrofit new materials into what we have. But a slight different approach, especially with more modern structures, they build things quick and they build things fast. So we do see that problem when we have to go into, you know, trying to mitigate water infiltration or trying to restore something or, you know, just based on the building, upkeeping on the building, you know, it's a slightly different story but, you know, luckily, in the industry, we see people testing the material trying to find other ways that are means and methods that it's more appropriate for long term repairs and just working with boards and owners to understand what they want at the end of the day to be better stewards to their buildings. And I think that's one of the comments repurpose is taking on a whole new meaning and we we're just at the top of the hour so I wanted to cover three final slides but thank you to the to the panel today and the focus on local customized solutions and and I think that will be really an innovative thing that we will look to at the national level for for an important way forward. Thank you to the panel this has been a really we could go for another hour, I'm sure, with the expertise and talent on the panel so thank you. I did want to flag a few upcoming webinars for the preservation forum members we have a book talk for a new book dwell time with author Rosa Lowinger. That is on March 21 at 3pm. Please be sure to check that out and if you're not a forum member, sign up to participate in that. Please. And be sure to check out our password online symposium this is following our conference, and that'll take place in April, April 3rd and 4th, and this is going to feature speakers on mitigate and adapting to the changing climate so that'll be a really exciting section that we hope you all will come back for. Finally, final slide contact information saving places.org preservation leadership forum and to connect to our webinars. Please visit saving places.com upcoming webinars. Thank you everyone for joining and for staying an extra couple minutes. And please again in the chat. Let's thank this great panel for all the important work they're doing and inspiring leadership for preservation and for portable housing. Thank you everybody for joining. Appreciate tuning in.