 On the dummy form we do it here, we do the kao sao up here, or kao sao here, like that. So I am going around and then controlling this arm on the inside. So it's a circular motion, one hand with this hand like this. And on the dummy it's often combined with other techniques. For example, it's usually kao sao with the right and the low palm, or kao sao with the left and the high palm. Kao sao with the right and the low left palm, or kao sao with the left with the high jing jang.