 Welcome back it's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa away from the finance bill so we're talking about something that has to do with the economy the Omicron variants the red list it's still in the news but the federal government says that it does actually it is open to negotiation with the UAE and a whole lot of intrigues are still you know being talked about concerning that we have some guests who will be analyzing all of the issues with us we have I'm Kinectical in the money a public affairs analyst also joining us I'm Abraham great a social commentator be joining us from the UK good morning to you a gentleman morning all right let me start with you Kinectical indeed we have this cost you know this matter or this issue before but you know what we saw later and was that the federal government retaliated a sort of a tit for tat at the right now you know it is saying that it's gonna ban flights from the UK from you know UAE and other countries as well but then again it's still talking about negotiation and diplomatic route would you really say this particular issue is a deliberate attempt you know to undermine Nigeria I wouldn't say it's a deliberate attempt to undermine Nigeria the truth of the matter is that the federal government needs to also look the way of its people and what we want as a country at the moment you know like we discussed before what would be ideal in this particular situation is to retaliate diplomatically it might not be by banning the airlines but they should be a way for the UK Canada Saudi Arabia to feel the impact of actually shutting off Nigeria just just like that but then I checked this morning and I saw like a news from Vanguard saying that the federal government is looking at deferring their red-listed of UK Canada and Saudi Arabia for another one week for them to discuss diplomatically and to put into consideration some other things that will make sure that Nigeria is out of the bed list now but the question is if they're trying to discuss diplomatically to remove Nigeria from the red list why wasn't this considered in the beginning of the conversation before before now UK just went ahead and released that Nigeria same thing with Canada and Saudi Arabia so why do we have to discuss with them before we read this them these guys have a lot of airlines coming into the country every single day and there's increased case of Omicron virus in the UK there's even a record that that's case of Omicron virus in the UK but still our border is wide open for them to come into the country but we don't have access to their own country I feel like I mean this is not a balanced equation so at the moment whatever they want to discuss diplomatically can happen but after Nigeria goes ahead to ban these countries or release them from bringing passengers into our country okay so let's bring in Abraham great at this point in time thank you for joining us once again thank you very much good morning to you all right so you had the position of Namanee and he's saying that first Nigeria should actually also concede the fact that this as much as you're saying let's get into diplomatic talks it's okay to go ahead and you know put them on that red list restricting them in the first instance and also saying I think he also mentioned the fact that yes there are other means to going through this particular action or retaliating or you know taking action towards some of these countries that have put us on the red list do you agree with his thoughts I understand Mr. Namanee's position but I want us to understand that there are certain words that we should not be using they don't help diplomatic relationship when we're saying ban or saying things like retaliate and stuff like that for bilateral relationship these are not words that actually enhance or help negotiation and the position of Mr. Namanee is actually very correct in terms of if we also do not take any form of action we will always be taken lightly but here is it here's it we are as a country and sometimes as a continent we are always you know prone to the Nick Jack reaction we need to have a retrospective and we have to have introspective actions in place we need to be able to plan ahead now let me tell you something about the UK's reaction to Nigeria I think this all started from Canada where Canada noticed you know something is going on around the world and Canada for one cannot take any risk I was in Canada a few weeks ago and you cannot even eat in a restaurant unless you show your certificate in Vancouver you cannot go to a restaurant to eat unless you show the certificate that you are vaccinated if not you have to order your food in now this country and look I don't think they are particularly just looking at Nigeria but when you look at it here's the stats we have 200 million people in Nigeria and less than two percent of us are vaccinated I mean supposedly that's I don't know if the stats are correct but that's about the fact that we have out there now if this nation are aware of this the UK have achieved over 80 percent vaccination vaccination Ghana our neighbor is over 80 percent vaccination now I tell you one thing that Ghana has done Ghana did not ban people from coming into their country well Ghana is saying is that you come into Ghana you will be vaccinated at the airport if you are not or if you're traveling we will vaccinate you we need to come together as a nation and understand that we should not be used to emotional reactions in Nigeria we react first then we think later we should be able to plan five years time we'll be able to plan the next pandemic the next variant African countries should be able to sit down together and find a solution that put us in a position to be stronger on the mediation table the reaction strategy is always not the best that's I mean that's my take at the moment okay but I'm just this you know before I let my calling come through you have said that you know there are some words that are not good for you know diplomatic relations and talks well should we be concerned about the words because this word described the action what the federal government has done has retaliated so you have reciprocates the same action I mean these are actions and these are words describing the actions so are you saying that the federal government shouldn't have reacted to the same reaction that she got on her country because it feels like I mean it feels unfair if you look at it not the fact that we're in Africa we're Nigerians but for the fact of fairness and equity so you want to look at it scientifically you want to look at it in terms of you know the others countries that have more cases of the Omicron variant and the fact that Nigeria recorded just only two case or they're about and we have ourselves on the blacklist and so it feels like it's an attack on the continent so are you saying that you know Nigerians shouldn't have reacted I'm not saying that at all and thankfully you use the word reciprocates I would rather use the word reciprocates rather than retaliate so in terms of engagement in diplomacy there are certain words that just do not help it makes it look as though we're in a banter we are in we're striving with all the nation but what I'm saying in essence is we should be before this this ban we should be able to I mean have relationship with other nations where we are keeping a tap on things where is the stats that Nigeria is following on a daily basis if the nations are looking at us what are the measures that are there in the public place what websites are there to give people the respite to know that I'm flying into Nigeria I'm saying now I know this because I traveled into Nigeria every five weeks I know that Nigerians are saying but we believe we rely on spiritual you know we rely on faith we realize on emotion but we need stats the nation that you are talking about did not just isolate Nigeria alone I give you an example last year's Champions League was to be played in Turkey this year I'm sorry this year and that was in the time that Turkey was on the red list and guess what the UK puts Turkey on the red list and because of that they have to change the venue where that will be played this has got nothing to do with it being the fact that Nigeria however there's a case that I have against the West which is this only crone did not start from Africa it did not even start from South Africa only crone was discovered or recognized in South Africa meaning that someone you know came in with that variance in that country now the West also should work with our nation should work with us to find solution not just throwing that at us so in terms of retrospective or at the college reciprocate we should be on the table at the end of the day that table will not turn in our favor we can then have other measures like bands and we don't only have to buy a band in our flight and what are you whenever you on the negotiation table always look at where you can grab your opposite at the church I don't think burning flight is the only way that we can show the West the African countries are ready to negotiate in a different way there are other things that I think all right thank you I'm Abraham let's bring back I'm kinectical on the money right now you've ahead them the position but my concern right now is that negotiations are run Nigerians are still been some still stock are brought some of them who may want to come you know this season does you try to visit loved ones or for some transaction even those who are here who would also want to travel out you know to do transactions and all the other things I know they are just left in abeyance as it were it also since negotiations are on what should we be doing in the immediate say because right now it's as though you know nothing is happening it's as though we just keep on losing moneys and them no one is seemingly you know talking about them the amount that have been lost on the daily basis okay thank you Jay so first of all I'm going to address what Abraham talked about Abraham mentioned that using the word retaliation is not healthy for diplomatic discussions so I will take that back and I want to agree with him slightly on that but the word red list is also not good for diplomatic relationships because it puts stigma on a country when you say you read least the nation you read least Africa that is also synonym to retaliation or whatever the case may be whatever impact you think the word retaliation is given to diplomatic relationship is the same impact ready as a word is going to give to Nigeria especially in the face of other countries now Nigeria as a country should not be underestimated by this Western country that you rightly mentioned you say you come into Nigeria every five weeks I've lived at least a great number of six years in Nigeria since I moved back to Nigeria I've lived in these Western countries but I still prefer to live in Nigeria and there's a reason for that and the fact that we have to think Nigeria and also make sure that we position Nigeria to be in a more advantageous a position than these other Western countries let me take you back to the world between to diplomatic work between China and America we also how we how we came out America started it by President Trump and then China retaliated sorry to say China did not negotiate they retaliated and then America went for sesame seeds that they know that China required needs a lot of sesame seeds but then China what did China do China focused on other countries because they buy sesame seeds a lot from America America depends on sending their sesame seeds to China so China decided to boycott sesame seed importation from America and push it down to other countries and that's why we saw a lot of surge in Africa some companies coming into Africa to buy sesame seeds that's for that time so when you look at this holistically then you also think about the fact that we've had malaria for so many years in Africa why is there no vaccine for malaria because they say it's an African disease they see it as as a disease that we bring from Africa to these other countries now these are the things you have to look at for you to be smart diplomatically as well these countries are saying that Omicron virus originated from Africa you're right it did not come from Africa but then they're trying to make it an African thing so what do we do in return we're not saying that we should go ahead to say that we want to cut out ties with this country all we're asking for as Nigerians and as Africans is that if you have redlisted Nigeria because we are not following all the COVID protocol we don't have a problem with that but then we have to go ahead and redlist your country because your country has the high number of Omicron cases and that means our country is very poor us we don't want to receive people from you guys because you guys are going to end up in increasing numbers of Omicron virus in our own country so ideally what we should do is to cut the influence of people from these countries into our own nation so we can put our house together that is what it's all about this this is not a war but then you are making us open our eyes to put our our head in the right direction and if you're saying Abraham that this is not targeted to Africa then do your research much better because this is just an African thing look at Germany look at other neighboring countries Lithuania other countries that have Omicron cases what has UK done about that nothing so what I'm and still we haven't looked at any death case of the virus at the moment Abraham will bring you in in a bit okay because for the want of time we're costing down in no time but just to put out that the fact that we don't have you know guns the conventional war the fact that we're not seeing bullets fly across our head doesn't necessarily mean that we're not experiencing a war okay but I do not know how diplomatic the actions of some of these countries have been towards Africa and Nigeria just like we have Ken Nnamani saying already that the fact that you put a country on a red lease not following the scientific methods and all of the procedures but let's move away from all of that conversation now that the federal government is initiating some diplomatic talks what kind of conversation should we be having with this countries the United Kingdom Canada amongst others I like to share your thoughts on that Abraham great I think the kind of discussion we should be asking is to understand how deep these countries can you hear me we can hear you loud and clear okay we should know why these kind of countries have the least that they have the UK had the red least the green least and the amber least since March of 1920 that is that today and they actually have rules and how a nation can enter into the amber least Nigeria was at one point on the amber and later on we get into the green least so I don't think this is an attack on us per se Germany at one point who was on UK's amber least almost on the red least China was at some point on the UK red least I don't think they named these for Africa I was in Dubai and I came back into the UK a day later just one day I would have been stuck in Dubai because Dubai was on the red least on the Monday so what conversation should the federal government be having with these countries at this point in time we're talking about the diplomatic talks the UK should be on this I'm sorry Nigeria should be understanding what do these countries what do they want us to do in what way can we make our own statistics or our own the health of our own people our space better for people to enter into Nigeria should be having a dialogue with them to see how can we work better together on aviation on health to make the life of people travelers safe we're not just to react we should be concerned about the global health like my colleague has said there is also a trade war that is going on these old things started from a trade war so on the matter of trade we should also have a bilateral relationship that means that if you do this we may reciprocate this way but all of those things would have been a policy that has been signed that will agree so that when everybody is pressing the button it doesn't seem like a retaliation all right thank you I'm Abraham I'm Kenneth you can we get your final words on this particular discourse okay so just to chip in a little bit Abraham remember that the visa to issuing visas to Nigerians have been caught off as well if you say that this is not a deliberate attack on Nigerians also be in mind that you don't really say country and also stop issuing visas you can also decide that they cut the citizens shouldn't come into you especially when you put a 2000 feet for isolation why then go ahead and and restrict or stop the issuance of visa to Nigerians because you know we will still come regardless now going back to your question Jay on what we should be discussing at the moment what we should be discussing is the fact that Nigeria needs to come home and think about what is in need for us what are we contributing to the UK what do we have on the table because for you to have any diplomatic discussion with any nation you need to understand what you're doing for those nations what we are doing for countries like UK Canada and so on and so forth is that our bright heads are actually moving to these countries that is a very very big car that we have at the moment Nigerians who are doctors who are pilots who are engineers and who are decent that they're all residing in the UK and in Canada now these people are contributing massively to their economy as well real estate investment is booming in UK and in Canada because of Africans and Asians so these things are what we have to come home to this cause and say okay we are doing this for your country now if you think that we're not doing this right in our own country to for us to get the red list then you should also come and become our technical partners in making sure that we have our books right so if what we need to do not to be on the red list is to do this but we don't have the capacity to do that that means because we have all the ways that we are benefiting your countries diplomatically that means you should come to our own country and help us put our books together that is what diplomatic relationship is all about you do this for me I do this for you and we've been doing a lot for these African at these Western countries so some of the production they have in their countries the raw materials are coming from Africa so they never put this into consideration they only go ahead to protect their own countries without thinking about what countries like Africa and Nigeria is very for them at the moment so I think a whole lot of responsibility lies on our hands as Nigerians to come back to actually remind ourselves what we are doing for these countries because if we're not if we're not organizing our books organizing our table we definitely will not have any card to play all right that they leave the ban will be lifted on Sunday most likely the UK review its policy every three weeks and I'm sure you are aware of that also the UK did not ban visa it ban this does visa application for that three weeks every nation needs to take its own responsibility and we should stop this blaming the other people we put our house in order and we put our best food forward all right thank you Abraham it's also sorry Abraham Abraham well we have a gentleman we have to go now we're really out of time all right the the conversation was becoming very more interesting and heated but we have to go at this moment because we're standing by for the news we must say a very big thank you to Kemenjiko and Amami who joined us from Abuja and of course I'm Abraham great who also joined us from the UK and we've been looking at the red list only confirmed and what we should be doing in terms of our diplomatic relations once again thank you to all of you who have sat back to watch as well my name is Justin and I am Seboko if you missed out on any part of the conversation it's all right to follow us on facebook and instagram we're at plus tv africa and on youtube plus tv africa live star you'll have a great Tuesday morning