 Hello everyone, good morning, or good afternoon or whatever it is. How is everybody? Natalia, did you have a good holiday? Hi, we've been, yes, I did indeed. It's been a while. Yes. Yeah, Christmas holidays were great actually, happy new year to everyone. I think we are gonna wait a couple of minutes. I do not know whether we're gonna get a big crowd here, but we'll see. Can you all see the screen? Yes, I can. Okay, I think we should start. The first order of business, of course, is the antitrust policy. We have to follow the antitrust policy, which, you know, according to the, to Hyperlager, because we are competitors and obviously we cannot be colluding. That's one. Second is the Hyperlager Code of Conduct, which implies that, what not, which means that we treat each other with respect, even when we are disagreeing with each other. And that is the, you know, we are meant to read both of these policies found here, but you can look at these links to see more detail on both of those policies. First order of business is usually introductions. I think we should do it, even though most of us know each other. So let's start with Elena. So basically, Elena, we introduce each other, if we introduce ourselves to the group, so that people know what you're working on and why you are in this group, and so that we can have intelligent conversations. If you do not want to introduce yourself, that's fine too, but it would be good. We can start with Elena. I guess not. Mike is turned off. Mike is turned off. Yeah. Hello. Hello. Can you hear me? Yeah. Now we can hear you. Oh, that's good, because I think something was wrong with my sound. Okay. So I didn't hear you either, because starting the first minutes had some problems with the sound, but I take it you need some introduction for me, right? So I'm here for the first time, and I represent a company called ExactPro. We specialize in software testing for financial market infrastructures. So we basically work with stock exchanges, clearinghouses, banks, securities, depositories, et cetera. We are pretty experienced with financial software built with traditional technologies, but starting from last year, we got engaged in a number of DLT-related projects, of course, from the software testing side. And those projects are either around trading platforms on crypto exchanges, or around post-trade activities on the traditional financial instruments, but carried out on new technology platforms built with DLT. The majority of our post-trade projects are now on our three-quarter platform, but we know that a lot of our prospective clients are using hyperledger, different projects within hyperledger. So we are very interested to look into that space as well. Well, thank you very much for my story. Yeah, great. Great to hear that you're here. And does the testing that you do result in some kind of an auditing or certification of financial infrastructure, or is it more to just make sure that the software works properly? Or is it also got a regulatory element? Because I have heard of your company. It's pretty big. Yeah, yeah, we are currently 550 people. For quite some time, we were part of the London Stock Exchange Group. We were there from 2015 to 2018, and then our management has bought the company back, so we are now back to being an independent business. As for our activities around this certification, we do not issue any certificates to our activities, but we provide extensive reports. What we specialize on is automated testing. So when we are on the project, we provide all the tooling, all the automated test libraries, as well as activities and support around the software. Do you have any open source involvement, or is it only? Majority of our tools are open sourced now. So we are mostly commercializing our service tools, so tools are open sourced. So if I go to your website, I should be able to get an idea of what's happening. Yes. The other thing I would like to ask you is, in the crypto and crypto space, and as well as digital assets, custody, or some other activities, post trade, and so on, you said you're working with Corda. Are there any projects that are live, or is it all in the MVP sort of testing phase? One of the projects is in its testing phase, and a couple of others are live, already live. Any that are live that you can either share, or maybe let us know, because we do have a use case project that we can actually enter some of these projects into, and then we can now talk about the front to back, the software development lifecycle, and obviously testing is an important part of that. So later on, but let's go through the introductions right now, and then next is money. I'm Manipulay from Swap Hub. We are developing a product that you can see, digital assets trading, and you can barely hear you, Mani. I don't know whether it's just me or everybody else. Is it clear now? Clear, definitely. Okay. I'm Manipulay from Swap Hub. We are developing a deal-to-platform slash blockchain, and the focus is all about two areas. One is on the digital asset space, providing lifecycle for digital assets between dealers and customers. And the other side of it is on the open security side, is something that you do working with is the CDM working group, and how to bring the database as well on the DLT platform. And your product is based, I mean, that particular product is focused on Corda, which is another area that you and Elena have in common. Yeah. And later on, Mani will be talking about some workshop that he has proposed. I will also be talking on that, because anyway, we'll go forward with the introductions. Next is Murali. Yes, hi, Rupin. Can everybody else have a new year? So I'm working currently on CPM, Consumer Privacy Management, Mood Off from Capital Markets a little bit, but still really interested in that, and applying blockchain and other technologies to that. That's it. And I'm a maintainer at Hyperledger Fabric. Murali is being modest here. He's probably one of the few guys who know Hyperledger Fabric inside and out. And I remember meeting with him in the first ever Hyperledger meetup where we hooked together the front end at that time of DA's platform with the IBM blockchain, which eventually became from Hyperledger Fabric. And that was a long time ago in blockchain years. We have come very far from there now, in the good direction. The problem that I'm seeing is, you know, there is a talk about the tough of disillusionment and many projects seem to have stalled. I mean, I don't even want to bring up the State Street stuff, but you know, many have not evolved much, but there also are news of lots of interesting projects out there. And if Elena's correct, there are many that are in production with Quora. I also wanted to get some of the Quora guys here because they seem to be the ones concentrating on financial infrastructure. Go ahead, Murali. Oh, yeah, no, I was saying that's spot on. The State Street itself, they're still deep into blockchain, so you shouldn't, I mean, don't treat too much into that, please. Except that they won't approach it from a different angle. Let me put it that way. They've always been interested in custody and they've always been interested in you know, in doing tokenization in the right manner and also bringing tokenization directly not just for other assets, but also for cash as well, which is where the main challenge was. And they are still, as far as I know, they're still doing all that. And so, but to your point, you know, I think the direct application of technology such as Quora is also batting a lot of fruits in many different areas as far as I know. But on the other hand, places such as, I think somewhere in South America, I forget the exact company, you may know all this also, they are actually applying fabric technology directly, very usefully, into doing capital markets work there. So, very successfully as well. As far as I know, one of the few people who have applied that at that scale to that area. So, it's, I won't write it off yet, but yeah. No, no, no, I'm not writing it off. I mean, obviously I'm in the space, but I'm saying that in the pathway to adoption is bumpy, which is normally the case. We had big shakeouts in very important technical initiatives like, for example, the whole internet thing, 2001, 2000, 2001 was a big shakeout. Everybody, you know, all the mini projects died. But what survived out of that storm was the ones that took over the world. So they, you know, it doesn't mean that it's all dire news. I'm just saying that this is all natural part of progression. Murti, can you, where do you work now and what do you hope about it? So, I am working on in a company called Manitou, M-A-N-E-T-U. It's a startup. And we are into CPM, consumer privacy management. And hopefully, I'll be able to share more in a few months, right? It's fairly new startup like we started up in November last year. And, you know, we are applying all kinds of technologies and bringing all kinds of things to make life easy for big companies to move into the space quickly. And the word on the street is that they are forced to move into it very rapidly because of all the regulations. So, does this mean that this Manitou CPM will integrate with blockchain? Allow me to answer that question in a few months, please. Okay, sorry. No, no, no, that's fine. That's a good question. You're in the stealth mode. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, obviously, you don't want to make any major announcements. Right. But I did look at your website and it seems promising. We had, in the identity working group, we had some presentations about FATF travel rule and so on, which obviously has great impact on know your customer and on all of the, I mean, not FATF, sorry, FATF had rules about how to do proper KYC and report KYC. In fact, we're going to have some presentations in the identity working group on remote identity proofing because even in India, for example, they have allowed video-based identity proofing for financial matters. So, this is very interesting because usually the identity proofing is based on physical presence. You have to show up at the bank to get a bank account open, but if you're going to have remote proofing, what are the methods by which you can improve the quality of remote proofing? Anyway, these are important things even for us because the capital market's infrastructure is highly reliant on that. One of the pieces that it's highly reliant on is that the proofing and proofing of identity and also authentication based on various characteristics. Now, we go to Natalia and hopefully she'll tell us what she's been up to in the past couple of months and tell us more about what's going to happen, how we can improve and take the capital market's sig in a new direction. You've asked too much, I think. From my side, from foreign introduction to the ones that don't know me, I'm working in the debt capital market's origination, which is basically originating bonds for issuers across the different sectors and I'm based in Spain, so mostly my focus is European. I like to say this, but I don't have a technical background. I have a business background, but I am indeed aware of all the importance of technology in the instrument process, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can. From our side, there's been only, well, there's been a few now, a few issuances using blockchain in this case. The specifics of the issuances have been very... I don't think I can say you can extrapolate this yet because the process is still very difficult and it's been basically approved and for the rest of the world and for the media to say, hey, we are using this technology and we issued a bond using blockchain. At the moment, I am in a working group internally at the bank where I work to see how we can implement this technology, so I believe I will be able to share with you more information in the coming months. Beautiful. I mean, if any of this stuff is public, we would like to know about them and actually put them in the use case project. Sure. I mean, basically, the issuances that I'm referring to is the bond issued by the World Bank that happened, I think it was two years ago and then more recently here in Spain, Santander and BPA, which are two of the largest banks here, have issued as well small bonds like in the amount of 50 million, but unless you work in the working team, you have no clue of what's going on actually because you only get the press release. What I can tell you is that these banks have worked with other fintech companies, they've partnered with this fintech to do so. I know the name of these two fintechs, maybe you know them, one is Nibawra and the other is Origin, so basically the knowledge is I cannot share anything because I don't know, but I believe I'm going to be in a position to share something once I'm in this project and I have more news. Yeah, and you're allowed to share. Anyway, the reason why we go through the introductions is so that people are aware of the projects that everyone is working on and it becomes very useful in a group like this. There are a couple of themes that have come through, one is the theme of tokenization, the other is tokenization including every aspect of it and money talked about it and I am very interested in this topic as well and so did Murali with reference to State Street and Natalia of course for the insurance process and as far as I'm concerned, I'm the host of this call, my name is Vipin Bharathan, I have a consulting business on the blockchain consulting and digital transformation and I run these two groups, this one is Capital Markets Focus, the other one is Identity Working Group on Hyperledger. We have very interesting and important presentations on the Identity Working Group and on this particular topic here in Capital Markets, we have about seven projects that we have launched but none of them are getting the traction they deserve because people are, even though they volunteered, they are busy with their regular day job, it's very difficult to put time into free open source efforts unless you're getting paid to do that. So with that, I want to say something about the roadmap, I had prepared a slide but I don't want to spend 20 minutes on it, the intros did give us a good insight into what people are working on and what people are concerned about. So a group like this is more for collaboration between people who would normally not collaborate or even hear of each other, like for example, I would never have heard of the names of origin and context like that which are based in Spain without Natalia's words on that subject. So that's one way we collaborate, second is we have these projects that we have embarked on, one of them is going to yield some fruit which is the token taxonomy framework or token taxonomy initiative which has published something called a token taxonomy framework which is attempting to standardize how tokens are defined, usually using a compositional architecture and money suggested that we use the existing PTF token taxonomy framework to workshop a small use case or a token, a simple token and then try to work it all the way to implementation and the natural place for that implementation would be Hyperledger Besu because it is based on Ethereum and so Ethereum has already existing standards for tokens on the blockchain but so we'll try to marry PTF with the ERC-20 and other standards around tokens in a concrete workshop. I have already spoken to Marley about this and Marley Gray who's the head of the PTF Technical Steering Committee and he presented here on TTF a pretty elaborate setup for the token taxonomy framework but what I found was he had talked about a visual token designer and I did not see that the visual token designer was ready for use by outsiders, in fact Marley confirmed that that the token designer is not available to us at least at this moment because it's still incomplete. Obviously there are other ways in which the tokens can be defined directly using JSON which is a data format and we can then use some of the tools that he has to test whether the definition is correct or not and there are some other tools also available but this is the main problem with most of the blockchain initiatives that there is a lack of the tool chain is very you know in the preliminary stages it does not integrate well end to end so that is a big problem and I believe we see that even with the token taxonomy framework so it's going to be slightly more difficult to start this process and I wanted money to say something about this because he was the one who proposed the workshop so that is the first workshop the second workshop we will talk about it in a minute but before that I think money should say something about if he wants to say something about the workshop and how will it will integrate into an end-to-end solution I think within you covered pretty much most of the most of the items it is just that we thought as a group it would be worthwhile to apply standards as I always believe any blockchain project which standards have led us to stay afloat for a longer period of time or essentially a commercially viable solution rather than using any kind of proprietary structures, data structures and implementation so I thought this could be a good way for us all to explore and the fact that Hyperlegger 3 is now an incubated insight within Hyperlegger projects it's a good platform to define tokens particularly here to do free tokens based on and then with the CPS standard with the CPS framework but without any further inputs I mean you know we have a framework we have the formula the other because the recipe to define new tokens got out of that eventually transformed into us you find it out as a case of data format without that format if everyone if everyone does not implement it to whatever they think it would define then anything getting into a standard is an issue so that's why we thought that if there is some format out there that defines this token even a simpler token then you could then apply that on on a blockchain like Hyperlegger 3 to explore how easily it's incorporated let's say in New York with CPS that's all my thought process you know others have ideas yeah I would like to hear comments about this one one of the things that money said was that the definition of the token and other areas about the issuance of the token and so on would be covered with with the basic platform but the further exchange like for example trading or any kind of secondary market settlement post trade work and so on can be done through Corda so essentially what I'm hearing is the integration of these platforms like for example Hyperlegger Indy for doing identity work uh Hyperlegger base I mean Bezu for this particular work in terms of issuance and then a framework like Corda which is more geared towards geared towards bilateral capital markets contract management yes so there of course there would be other standards that come into play like CDM that would define the contracts properly and CDM is now only being used supposedly first definition is for derivatives uh and but swaps and derivatives but they have they want to expand their field of vision to include other securities they do have now because the past I said three months because of the equity swap work being done by Axoni and based upon the other work group members the security definition is now in place within CDM as well as the likes of events like execution, allocation are already there those are all well defined and separately I am trying to get the Easter CDM and TTF are basically enterprise equilibrium alliance group members to talk to each other so that the TTF definition would become a relatively referred to the CDM and hence contract now and the plan and now refers to data standards yes it's 24 more for operations but TTF is more for definition development so I'm kind of I'm kind of making that a working group get together oh that's cool because the TTF guys have invited me to be an observer on the platform for doing the custody work but maybe even for this other other stuff so they have extended me a invitation to be an observer so maybe I can participate in some of that work as well since I'm not a direct member of I'm an individual and independent so I don't pay dues to the Ethereum enterprise alliance and that's what attracts me most to Hyperledger because the it's a completely open platform anybody can participate it is not restricted to just the members and some people may find that you know because it's free people think oh it's kind of worthless but that's not the case I see that many discussions that happen in these in this particular group meaning Hyperledger as a whole and or in various sigs especially the healthcare and the telecoms thing are very detailed and technical and also have a lot of collaboration with different parties for example we did have a performance and working group but that has the activities have become very minimal because of many many things one of them being the lack of participation but I'm sure that as the space grows in maturity we are going to see much more activity there and Elena you you are you know the testing stuff is definitely something that is very very important and people don't even think about it they have you know test coverage you know those kind of things in fact I had written up something on the chaos engineering and the blockchain which sort of started out something on that topic anyway so we you know the the second workshop that we were going to do was to do with with custody we already had a pretty elaborate discussion on custody money was there for that as well and I don't know literally whether you want to say something about custody but any contributions to that custody workshop will be useful we have just trying to define what are the what the use case should have I will circulate a video on that because I just you know there are lots of guidances from for example sec on digital asset custody there was a news item from Switzerland saying that six which is the Swiss stock exchange has collaborated with with you know a fintech in fact they launched a fintech and then they spun it off they are going to have both types of assets that means they're going to have digital cash on the blockchain and as well as issuance of equities on the blockchain and then they are trying going to have some way of doing dvp delivery versus payment on the blockchain so this is definitely a serious effort because it involves the Swiss stock exchange Swiss calm and various other parties in Switzerland and the whole idea is to democratize equity to be micro equity that means you know that you can participate in equity in investing with very little money and I think this is one of the big big problems that you know you've got to be an accredited investor with a certain amount of capital in order to fruitfully participate in investment activities so this is this micro equity concept is to democratize the equity you know investment in equity the so I have all those links in the in partly in the custody stuff and also in the new in in some of the pages that I've I'm constructing there anybody else has anything more to say about this or any view on what we should be working on I'll be glad to hear yes Murli we can't hear you if you're speaking because you've taken yourself off mute yeah now I can hear sorry I was just saying that I I don't have anything right now for example but I would I assume that if I go to custody workshop link I allow the information there and I can start looking at it yes definitely so the one of the most before we even go go to custody right the issuance and the trading side you mentioned the lack of you know cash on the ledger right as one of the big impediments so I was just talking about the six project you know six initiative where they put some cash on the ledger swiss pranks obviously some kind of a stable coin setup but what is more interesting is going to be the all of the all of the guys who are talking about putting you know all of the central bank putting central bank digital currency issuing central bank digital currency and if that happens then there may be some what do you call it then then it becomes possible for cash on the ledger and then also for DVP and other things so I see that Ravi has joined do you have anything to add to that Ravi or anything sorry I joined quite late maybe I would go along with the call and if needed I would jump in sorry I'm just catching up yeah yeah we are almost at the end of the session here because we were basically talking about the one about the roadmap for 2020 for the capital market sig then we talked about a couple of projects that we could start one is the modeling of a token digital asset on the TTI token taxonomy framework sorry not TTI TTF yeah and then using that definition to issue the tokens using ERC 20 or something like that into Bezu hyperlogy of Bezu which is a Ethereum variant and then yeah continuing that chain that toolchain into let's say Corda to follow the CDM standard and so that's that's one aspect the other was a custody workshop that we were going to work on with the TTF also and we have a observer status I at least they gave it to me I don't know whether they will extend it to someone else as well but I will bring what I know about custody to them so that you know because they are mostly technologists so I would assume that the people in this group we can we can talk about custody in detail you know and then we can take some of that knowledge back into the into the TTF TTI guys and then we can create some artifacts there and so so in terms of the other the first project we said that we will actually put it in hyperlogy labs the artifacts for a simple token that we issue and then we will bring it all the way into Bezu in terms of so that that was the idea anyway so yeah great I think I'm looking at the agenda and the satisfy quite a few questions or the area that I also wanted to get some insights on custody being one of them one quick pointer that is coming to my mind we've been here is you know when we talk about tokens given that we are also including security tokens being into capital market I think off chain compliance is certainly very very important not all the compliance can be you know fulfilled being just on chain so I believe if we have it somewhere covered within the given agenda agreed otherwise I was feeling what is the balance where we can have some kind of an on chain compliance versus the off chain compliance in which scenario how do we go about it what are some of the best practices I think that could be a valuable discussion in case if we can brainstorm on that side yeah I mean the whole idea is to make it easy for you to issue things like trace reporting which are compliant artifacts right trace reporting that's one second is that you know that KYC has been done for the individuals or companies that are trading on the platform if you have any other concrete off chain compliance you know suggestions or not only suggestions but backed by law you know then we can try to get some of those questions answered yeah I think at the moment my understanding was you know when we look at the compliance is related to to the securities I think there are some of the compliance which if we can keep it off chain that helps in terms of scalability the throughput of the solution I think from that perspective I also wanted to go further deeper into this there are some basic understanding that I have on this particular topic but I certainly wanted to even brainstorm with the people on this topic and see in case if we can further strengthen this but yeah that's just one piece of you know query that I had or a topic that I would like to bring but otherwise the agenda looked great yeah yeah I mean the agenda is one thing but you know the problem that we have is that we only meet once in every two weeks and normally nothing gets done in between and but for us to achieve something concrete we got either some kind of a working group separate you know task force kind of thing and then we come back and we report on the progress of that so and also we can collaborate on the wiki and on the email list and all that so I'll try to send out more emails but I want people to jump in and say things instead of just being passive consumers because otherwise we were getting it nowhere it'll be just me talking you know and it's kind of boring and on 100% I think the whole intention of the group is everybody sharing their understanding and then everybody get benefit of it so hopefully we will have increased participation and I'm looking for ways in which we can increase the asynchronous participation that means not during the call itself but in between calls um I suggest um maybe we can at least have an initial offline conversation uh you know who wants to participate you can say this at the time uh even later this week to pick up the topic of the tokens and what I have in mind and what uh every contact in mind and maybe even get something to come early uh early on how do we take this forward so at least we have some kind of framework uh interview for what can I say so you're proposing a separate uh sort of call or offline conversation about yeah I just come up with some what what do you want to see I tune an idea and then we can't have some ideas maybe we can get together something and then from that we would develop a possible scenario to you know further yeah that sounds good um now um anybody else wants to say anything more about all this stuff like Elena or Natalia great um so sorry sorry I didn't manage Natalia here I didn't manage to unmute my phone so so basically um in my case sometimes when when in the conversations um if I'm not participating more it's just because sometimes I don't understand you know the the concept so I feel like there's I there's nothing um I can add um in these cases uh or especially in the latest topics uh I you know I'm I'm learning from it so that's why in my case I'm I'm quiet well if you have if you have stuff that doesn't uh you know that you don't understand it's very good to stop uh stop us and ask questions in fact I would say there is nothing uh that is that no question will should be considered uh you know uninformed because it will also help the person who's presenting or talking think more clearly about what they are talking about because the questions are very very very important uh and that can be one way in which we can all participate because otherwise uh you know the the understanding of the of the person who who's talking can also be increased by people questioning them that's what I sincerely believe because sometimes we just toss out terms without completely understanding them or or not you know that these things are very common in technology presentations that people just talk talk about stuff without clearly explaining things uh and I think the questions are very important looks like the next uh the next meeting guys for the next meeting are here dano is on the call or is he come to talk about besu I don't know I just woke up I had a late night I thought this was 10 o'clock Pacific night 10 o'clock eastern sorry it's okay so we'll we'll uh come back to you on this uh topic dano because we will need your help for the besu you know erc 20 based uh or any other token standard based stuff to implement the ttf tti on besu so I had tried to get people on the um um from besu on on here today but uh obviously I was a little too late in uh putting out the word on the besu channel but in the meantime we will collaborate on this yeah right now most of our people who would probably call into this are in an off-site in Brisbane Australia so right about now they're asleep yeah and hopefully they're not suffering too much from the the smoke and the fun um anyway yeah this is a this is a problem for us because of the because of the slot that we have chosen 10 a.m a lot of people cannot participate anyway it's been a it's been wonderful um conversation I'm going to uh try to make the minutes up as much as I remember them and list after listening to the audio and then we can collaborate further dano on how we should go about uh uh integrating the ttf into besu thank you anything else I guess yeah go ahead all right I think uh that's it for now the next call is probably the the dci guys sweaters here so it must be dci all right so I'm gonna close and hopefully you won't get knocked out uh sweat up because I have the uh I have the host key and so I'm going to just stop the share and get off uh okay yeah should be good um you might get knocked off I'm sorry if that happens no problem all right thanks everyone thank you thank you all right sorry miss rep you 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