 Welcome, everyone. Good evening, good day, and good morning wherever you are. I'm Weiping Wu, the director of the master in urban planning here at GSAP and Columbia. Tonight we gather in Lenape, hooking the unceded ancestral homeland of the Lenape peoples. I ask you to join me in acknowledging the Lenape community. Their traditional territory, elders, ancestors, and future generations. And in acknowledging as a scholar, as a school that Columbia, like New York City and the United States as a nation was founded upon the exclusion and erasures of many indigenous peoples. GSAP is committed to addressing the deep history of the erasure of indigenous knowledge in the professions of the build environment generally, and in the western tradition of architectural education specifically. With this GSAP commits to confronting these institutional legacies as agents of colonialism and to honoring indigenous knowledge in its curricula. Good evening, and today I'm have the honor to introduce Professor Teresa Cadero. Teresa is a professor of city original planning at UC Berkeley, visiting and teaching at GSAP this semester while on spectacle so we are very, very fortunate and very honored to have you Teresa. Her research focuses on the predicaments of urbanization, such as spatial segregation, social discrimination and the uses of public space in cities of the global south. Her work is interdisciplinary combining methodologies, theories and approaches from the different social sciences, the humanities, and the design disciplines. She has been especially concerned with reshaping ethnographic methods for the study of cities. Professor Cadero's book, City of Walls, Crime, Segregation and Citizenship in Sao Paulo, University of California Press 2000, won the senior book prize of the American Ethnological Society in 2001 and has been translated into Portuguese and Spanish. The book presents a comprehensive analysis of the ways in which crime, fear of violence and disrespect of citizenship rights intertwine with urban transformations to produce a new pattern of urban segregation based on fortified enclaves. Focusing on Sao Paulo and using comparative data on Los Angeles City of Walls suggests that the new patterns of urban segregation developing in these cities also appears in many metropolises around the world. Currently, Professor Cadero has at least three research projects going on to investigate new formations of urban life and city space as they intersect with new technologies of the public, new forms of governance, and new paradigms of urban planning. The first project examines a diverse range of public practices and artistic interventions, including graffiti and tagging, rap, massive demonstrations by minority movements and religious groups, poetry readings, skateboarding, and the motorcycling. The second research project focuses on peripheral urbanization in the global south. It analyzes and theorizes auto-construction. We'll hear more about that soon. Acknowledging that cities around the world have been largely constructed by their residents who build not only their own houses, but also their neighborhoods. The third project, the focus of her lecture today, is a collaboration with Gautam Ban from the Indian Institute for Human Settlements, Kelly Gillespie from the Department of Anthropology, University of Woodsworth and Abdulma Ki Simone from the Max Planck Institute for the Study of Religious and Ethnic Diversity. The project focuses on four metropolises in the global south, Sao Paulo, New Delhi, Johannesburg, and Jakarta, to explore the emergence of surprising new forms of collective life. In 2012, she received a faculty mentor award from the Graduate Assembly University of California at Berkeley. She also was named a 2012 Guggenheim Fellow. So with that, I would like to welcome Professor Kadara and look forward to your lecture. I'm going to talk today about deep transformations that are reshuffling entrenched formations of class inequalities, gender hierarchies, and racial discriminations in Sao Paulo. These changes are not monumental, broadcasted on the evening news or made especially visible in scholarly literature. They happen on the level of the everyday and are seldom the result of any organized action. They have not been planted by any kind of institution. Rather, these transformations have unfolded through small changes in practice here and there, that after two decades have amounted to a revolution in ways of living together, shaping femininities and masculinities, conceiving of racial identities, challenging barriers of class and using public spaces. The detection of these transformations requires paying attention to the everyday, to the tacit ways of doing things, to ways of acting in concert with others, and to repertoires and languages people use to communicate and reflect on their lives. In some attention to what I call formations of collective life. I'm using collective here to mean a cooperative, not to mean a cooperative enterprise or to refer to a project by a specific group or people acting together. Rather, I use collective in its other meaning to refer to aggregate patterns of signification language and practice. In this sense, collective practice may also refer to individualization and fragmentation, and so far as they become a common pattern, a dominant mode of behavior. But how to identify among the mass of everyday events, gestures, practice, those that are worth paying attention to pursuing documenting. How to identify what points to significant transformation. One simple answer is pay attention to formations that seem to present a puzzle that seemed to be emergent or that introduce uncertainty in ways of understanding. When we cannot describe a process or a social formation with confidence. When we cannot name a configuration that we're seeing, then we're probably close to that situation that it's new, and that as Foucault once put it, a situation that simultaneously problematic and something about which one is required to think. This requirement to think is not only a professional academic issue, but also a moral and political issue. I would also say that it's a fundamental step for any planning initiative. In my interrogations about the emergent formations of collective life that proceed both historically and ethnographically. I rely on an archive of ethnographic research that I produced in Sao Paulo and especially in its peripheries from 1978 to the present. I also make this archive dialogue with social demographic statistic from Brazilian census and national household surveys. Additionally, I rely on collaborative work with my three colleagues researching cities in the global south. Gotenban, Kelly Gillespie and Abdul Malik Simone. Many of the ideas that I present here have been formulated in dialogue with them and with six young research collaborators in Sao Paulo. I start this talk with a family history registered in my archive that allows me to follow a few puzzles found in recent research. Let us look at changes in the lives of the members of the Melo family in the span of two generations, a period of 50 years that goes from the mid 1960s to the present. These changes serve as the background for my analysis of the complex and intertwined ways in which families, the space, citizens and modes of collective life have been changing in Sao Paulo's peripheries. This family was one of the first I met in Jardim das Camelhas, the neighborhood where they live in the peripheries of Sao Paulo, in 1978. And we have remained friends since then. Sergio, what has always been Sergio, the father of this couple, has always defined himself as a trabalhador, a worker. He had completed only four years of elementary education and worked since he was a boy. For some years he was a factory worker, but then became a driver of trucks that deliver bottled gas and later construction materials throughout the peripheries. Sergio was a union leader and an important organizer in his neighborhood. He engaged enthusiastically with social movements in the 1970s and 80s and supported the PT, the parties of the worker. Anna also completely elementary education, and it started to work at an early age, both as a domestic worker and in factories, but it stopped working when she got married at 20, and to take care of the house and the children. She has remained for her whole life a very active member of the Catholic community organization of her neighborhood and has participated actively in social movements during the 1980s, especially in women's groups. Sergio and Anna had always had on display in their house this picture taking on their wedding day in February of 1965. It's a fascinating picture. Their young selves were trading such a romantic fashion in this staged shot taking the studio of the neighborhood photographer. It was originally a black and white photograph that Sergio carefully colored by hand, a technique he trained himself in when he aspired to become a photographer. The pictures of their wedding revealed to me the great affection that united those two people. But they also are as in parts of a certain mode of representation that prevailed among the Brazilian working classes at the time. No smile, the gaze is fixed on the camera, the affirmation of their dignity and propriety, regardless of poverty. Fast forward now to 2012, when Sergio and Anna's youngest daughter, Angelica, married Guilherme, who she had dated for almost a decade. The wedding this time did not happen in the neighborhood chapel as was the case with the wedding of her brothers, their older brothers. But in one in a central district, which offered a more dramatic stage for a ceremony orchestrated in every possible detail to indicate sophistication taste and their ascending social position. The church and its golden walls, the red carpet and the fresh white flowers provide the stage for the formal ritual. It was swallowed by allowed cart in a rented space for events. This time the post ceremony pictures were quite different, full of smiling faces and touching bodies and of course a good number of selfies that made their way to Facebook. Guilherme, in the same way as Angelica's father, works as a delivery truck driver, but the lifestyle of the two men and their families are quite different. In one generation, the modes of collective life in the São Paulo's working classes have modified dramatically. During the generation in which Anne and Sergio raised their six children, what it means to be working class and poor in São Paulo has changed significantly, a change reflected on the lives of their children. Anne and Sergio are migrants to the city. All their six children, however, were born in São Paulo and have never had any contact with the places where their parents come from. The three older boys were sent to work at an early age and only finished middle school with difficulty. They became skilled manual laborers. The older daughter finished high school and joined the Catholic Church to become a nun. Angelica finished college and has had several clerical jobs. The youngest son was not sent to work as an early age, finished high school and put himself through college in ninth courses while working during the day. He has an engineering degree and works in an engineering firm. He still lives in Jardim das Camelhas with his mother. Anna had six children, but she has only five grandchildren. Three of her children have never married, two married women who have always worked at full time and have only two children each and Angelica has only one child. In this period of half a century, the practice that constitute a family have changed significantly. The trajectory of Anne and Sergio's implies what I understand as a formation of collective life is structured around the project of auto construction. They built their own house in a neighborhood that was basically not urbanized when they moved there and kept transforming it for over 30 years. Only one of Sergio and Anna's six children, Ayuttham, followed this trajectory. He did not complete secondary education and he started working at an early age as a baker and confectioner. His profession until retirement two years ago. He married a neighbor when both were quite young in their early 20s in the neighborhood chapel. Elaine, his wife, has worked all her life in commercial stores. They had children quite young, but only two. One is already at university and neither one was asked to interrupt the school to work. When Ayuttham and Elaine got married, they bought a little lot in Jardim das Camelhas and like their parents, auto constructed their house, which has been transformed many times. Anne and Sergio have also extended and modeled their house many times, but the aesthetic patterns of each house is quite different and express different insertions in the consumption market. Angelica is more than 10 years younger than Ayuttham and have a different life trajectory. Angelica and Guillermo postponed their marriage for several years to be able to save to have the ceremony of their dreams and especially to be able to buy an apartment in a more central neighborhood and fulfill other plans, such as traveling and graduating from university something that Angelica did seven years after getting married. Angelica and auto construction has never been part of their project. They moved to the new apartment in the same way as other milestones of their lives was immediate was mediated by social media. It was there that they registered not only the wedding but also the baby shower of their son and his birth attended by the father. Something unthinkable in Anna's generation when both modest in relation to the body exposure and the separation of the words of men and women were enforced rigorously. The son only arrived after the university degree and seven years of marriage when Angelica was 37. The changes in the ways in which the members of this family shape their lives have happened in the context of several macro process that have been transforming both some Paulo and Brazilian society in general. This process is give us clues to the problems we must investigate if we want to understand what is emerging as new forms of collective life today. The trajectory of the members of the mellow families intertwined with both the history of the urbanization of the city and some of some follow and the consumption options available to the working classes during the last 50 years. Some Paulo, like many other metropolis of the global south has been largely urbanized by its residents, according to a mode of sitting making that I have referred to as peripheral urbanization. This process of simultaneously building and inhabiting the city took shape under conditions of industrialization, nation building and migration. From the 1940s to the 1980s. Employment was easily available is in factories around the metropolitan region, or in the construction sector and and skilled service sectors workers, a majority of whom were recent migrants to the city. Could count on this availability of work as they embarked on a project of becoming property owners, a process that entail me slowly out constructing their own houses in the distant and precarious peripheries. The construction of was a process of social mobility, express materially in the improvements of the houses, the process of building houses and thereby neighborhoods politicized residents who organized themselves into social movements and engaged in exchanges with the state. As a result, neighborhoods improved significantly in terms of services and infrastructure. And democracy took roots in Brazilian society in the spaces far beyond the strictly politically, especially in the realms of the quotidian. The subject of this process identified themselves as workers, the balliadores and residents. Lula and the PT the partner of the party of the workers capture and express its residents desires projects and innovations in a political project. The reliance on auto construction diminished as housing options multiplied, especially after the 2000s, and as people's plans diversified. A main option is rental in what is called in Sao Paulo pushadinho, this kind of buildings, an improvised and at all extension of the house. As auto constructed houses were enlarged and usually went up, owners started to grant their extensions, and there is now a significant rental market in the peripheries. It is especially important for young people. Other options are marked produce housing as Angelica's apartment. Social housing, especially under this program called me a Kazami Avida my house my life. And also organize land occupations which have intensified especially in the last couple of years. The economic setup of the metropolitan region changed it. Industrial work shrunk and unemployment right reason. The labor market became more complex the skills required for an entry job increased and people's skills frequently do not match markets new requirement. The project of material and spatial social ascension either became more difficult for many, or is less appealing to the younger generation, born in the city, because they're currently several housing options. And those pictures are all taking in the space of it's basically the same street is just like a round the block, all of those different kind of options. Because they are different options, many young people do not even contemplate auto construction, a process they consider to have a high cost in terms of time, energy and money. Does they end up transit transitioning among different possibilities. While auto construction fixed families to specific places, the differentiation of options allow allows mobility and circulation. Those are relevant changes, and they specifically affect women. I analyze them using a series of statistics. I will emphasize the main process they indicate but I will skip reading the exact numbers here, which become boring but you become visible on the tables and graphs as I will show and I can return to them if it's the case. Let's start with labor. Women have entered the labor force in high numbers in the last years in the last 50 years in Brazil, the incorporation of women to the economic active population increase at four fold. The gap between the income of men and women still persist, but it has decreased in the last years. While in 1980, when I first did food work and judge in the scamels women represented 29% of the total of the total number of adults and the labor force in that neighborhood. In 2013, they represented 42% in the mellow family, all women of the younger generation have always worked at full time. One of the most crucial changes that also happened in Brazil in the last two decades is the significant improvement in education. Although the quality of this education is still precarious. It is clear that there has been significant change as this graphic indicate the percentage of young people without basic education in this case meaning eight years dropped significantly. At the same time, the percentage of those with secondary education went up. Access to higher education expanded considerably among all social groups, although it's still very limited among the lowest income groups. Outside of this, the change has also been considerable in the effects very meaningful, I will, and as I will comment later. This was due to a series of programs of affirmative action and quote as imposed on colleges and universities, and the creation of new federal universities across the country. In the mellow family you remember an incedule had only four years of education, but two of their children made it to college. Demographic transformation and changes in the composition of households are impressive. Brazil is known for having had a sharp and fast demographic transition with the total fertility rate dropping from the average of almost eight birds per woman in the late 19th century to six in 1960. But then it dropped radically since 1980 to go under the replacement fertility rate of two in 2010, when it reached at 1.9 for Brazil and 1.7 for some follow. So it's really reflected in the history of the mellow family. Simultaneously, young women like Angelica in Sao Paulo and elsewhere have been postponing having children to their needs to late 30s. Some of the most significant changes can be detected in demographic statistics that can be detected in the demographic statistics. We refer to patterns of new reality, the composition of households and the role of women in households in Brazil between 1995 and 2015 the proportion of households headed by a woman, jump it from 22 to 40%. For this period data also reviewed changes in the prevalence of certain types of families. For example, in Brazil, the proportion of families composed by a couple and their kids, the nuclear family has decreased from 60% to 42% in 2015. In other words, almost 60% of household arrangements do not correspond to what is frequently imagined as the typical model of the modern family. In 2015, the highest proportion of household that they had by a woman was in fact constituted by a woman and her children. However, the proportion of women had had of households in nuclear families increased from almost nothing to 23% in 2015. This pattern indicates that different agreements are being made inside of households and transforming the dynamics, even of the more typical nuclear family. As women participate more intensively in the labor force and have smaller families, the participation of their income and the total household income has also obviously increased. In 2015, the proportion reached 48% almost half. This is remarkable considering that inequalities between the income of men and women persist. Additionally, after the 2000s, there has been an increase of the number of young people from aged 15 to 29 who are heads of households. Women are the majority of the people in this position. In my view, however, among the most revealing data about the new formations of households refers to the number of mothers raising children by themselves. According to the 2010 census that I have been analyzing with my colleague Rodrigo Burgarelli, in many districts of the city of Sao Paulo, both in the peripheries and the impoverished downtown, more than 40% of the mothers are single and do not live with the fathers of their children. In several districts, the proportion is higher than 50%. There is also an important racial component. 61% of the mothers living alone with children younger than 14 are black. This change regarding motherhood is reflecting the adoption of new language. In the last few years, these young mothers have been insisting on calling themselves solo mothers, mind solo in Portuguese, instead of single mothers, so they are solo not single. Role sensibilities, practice and language are changing. I will return to this in a minute, as I think that it represents one of the main puzzles we have to follow if we want to understand what is emerging, what is the new formation of collective life that is in the making. Finally, alternative modes of living also reflect other shifts in articulation of gender and sexuality. Center to these changes is the role of LGBTQ people. Their activism has exploded, the pride parade attracts millions in São Paulo, and the National Congress approved same sex marriage in 2013. These marriages have been increasing constantly since then, especially among women. If in the past openly LGBTQ people were visible only in a few neighborhoods downtown, now they are increasingly present across the city, including throughout the peripheries, especially through the organization of dance party and cultural productions. Most people in the peripheries who declared to the census in 2010 that they lived in same sex households or women. Additionally, many of the wrong women and the solemn mothers we interviewed during my ethnographic research, consider themselves to be bisexuals. The history of the Malo family as well the social demographic data point in the same direction. Women who are living together in the peripheries of São Paulo have changed significantly. Women and LGBTQ people are at the center of this transformations that affect roles and norms related to the performance of gender and sexuality and the organization of family life. What we can see emerging in the peripheries today is a new formation of collective life out of construction anchor a certain formation of collective life. It was a collective project of the family that materially express social mobility in the incremental improvements of the house. The typical family that anchor a project of auto construction was the nuclear family, and all its members had to commit to the process. What really happened under the heteronormative framework in which the role of the male father as main provider and head of the household was pretty much indisputable. This project had linear temporality sustain a strong believe in progress and fixed people to their places in the peripheries. Families and domestic arrangements have changed significantly in the last two decades. Families are smaller, people are having children later and many people are simply choosing not to constitute a family. In Chaginda's Camelias, the proportion of nuclear families dropped during the period of 1980 to 2013, while household formed by a parent and her children increased. During the same period, the proportion of households headed by a woman increased to 30%. More importantly, in 2013, I classified 20% of households in this neighborhood as complex, since they would not fit any standard classification. For example, how would you classify a household formed by two women who are friends and not partners living together with their children who are raised as siblings. In addition to the households of solo mothers and their children, it is to this 20% of households of non-classifiable arrangements that we should look to understand the emerging formations. In the last years, I have been conducting ethnographic research in the peripheries with a team of collaborators that represents a new generation. They all lived in the peripheries and are members of the first generation to graduate from university. In their case, they graduated in courses of social science. What is becoming clear in our interviews with residents of the peripheries is that in contrast to their parents, young people articulated discourse of autonomy, independence and individuality, instead of emphasizing a collective project of the family. This is repeated by both men and women, including the mothers. Solo motherhood is an individual project. Thus, I think it's important to pursue this problem. This problem space formed by the social demographic indicators of the increase of solo motherhood, the appearance of this new expression solo mother, and the discourse that de-emphasize the collective project of the family and of the house, while articulating new notions of individuality and autonomy. I argue that this combination is an important element of an emerging formation of collective life. In the sense I mentioned in the beginning, what I mean of a common pattern that is becoming a dominant mode of practice. For the period of the late 1970s to the 2000s, my ethnographic archives revealed many indications of the deep stigma and marginalization associated with being a woman, not a widow, raising a family without the presence of a man. In Jardim das Camelhas, they were few of them in the late 1970s, and residents called them as Mulher largada do marido, which literally means a woman dumped from the husband, which is a grammatically incorrect phrase. Interviews I conduct in 1979 indicate that several of these women were in fact not abandoned by their husbands, rather they decided to live them. In the late 1970s and 80s, women who faced marginality but had the courage to change their lives, lack of terms and ways of conceiving of their agency, they were still largadas dumped. This was a situation associated with shame, a shame they usually countered by underscoring two facts, their success in raising their children in spite of humiliation and suffering, and the fact that their house were meticulously cleaned. But it was also a situation of irresolvable ambiguity. These women had to construct their lives in entirely non-normative spaces. To raise their children, they had to work like a man, as they said, and to be the heads of households. They could not just be either women or mothers. By the 2010s, the expression largada do marido dumped by the husband had vanished. In 2018, my collaborates and I interviewed several women living without a man and raising children by themselves. None used the word largada, and the expression was not mentioned by other interviewees. They tended to use the expression mind solo, solo mother, as they think that the expression single mother carries a stigma. They assert their agency in the choice they make and definitely do not express a sense of shame. Although several of them had faced domestic violence, they tend not to present themselves as victims and are not inevitably suffering. They have simply chosen to raise children by themselves. They are now many, and the expression solo mothers became popular in a short period of time. Their families and neighbors no long tend to shame them openly, even when they do not agree with their choices. Additionally, women have educated themselves and substantially expanded their insertion in the labor market. Women now work, period. This does not mean to work like a man. To work and to support themselves and their families solo or not are no longer associated with performing male roles. Rather, their signs that they live other lives with major changes in both sensibilities, practice and language. To understand this change further, we need to consider new practice of sexuality in the perspectives of the fathers of the children being raised by solo mothers. Recent ethnographic research in the peripheries indicate that there is a significant experimentation with types of relationships and sexuality. Several young women who interviewed were quite open about their bisexuality. It can appear in the most different configurations from the case of a woman who has an 11 year long relationship with a man with whom she's buying an apartment and whom she plans to marry. To the case of the majority of the solo mothers we interviewed and the case of women who are lesbians but only occasionally have relationships with men. They all call themselves bisexual. It is clear that today sexuality has become a space of experimentation and performance, both in the peripheries and elsewhere. This is especially clear in relation to the LGBTQ universe. A few people interviewed explicitly articulate this plasticity by calling themselves Bisha Cebola, which literally means an onion gay. People who assemble and disassemble themselves as they move around the city. Facing serious prejudice and harassment in the peripheries, they leave their homes dressed as men, but carry several layers of clothes underneath. As they move towards downtown, they use bathrooms and subways and train stations to peel off their layers and arrive to their parties downtown assembled as women. On the way back home, the layers come back. In spite of prejudice, LGBTQ spaces are also starting to spread in the peripheries, many of them serving as articulators of organized groups, cultural production and parties. The young men we interviewed and who identified, the young men we interviewed and who identified as heterosexual did not make references to bisexuality. Several of them represents the first generation of young men born in the peripheries who decisively distanced themselves from the factory and manual labor that defined their lives of their parents. Most of them have not lived with their fathers. They were raised by single mothers in general domestic servants and sometimes by their mother's partners. Some of them live together as roommates in spaces they were where they want to pursue their dream of becoming artists and cultural producers. One of the interviewees already has two children from two different women. We discussed openly issues of children, partners and marriage. They have little interest in married life. They recognize their children, but as one said, children don't make marriages. They want freedom and autonomy to pursue their individual interests and to live only among friends, without family responsibilities, without having, quote, to come back home and make dinner every night with the same person, unquote. They despise the women who according to them are looking for a stable emotional relationships. They say they support feminism. All these experiments in relationships, sexuality and composition of households are associated with different housing arrangements. Auto construction is not on the horizon of those experiments. They frequently come together with a significant mobility in terms of household composition. One day a solo mother lives only with her child but another day she may move back and live with her mother and then another day with a friend who is also solo mother and their children. People circulate. His spatial arrangements are also changing accordingly. I have mentioned before that there are now several options of housing. What makes most experiments possible is rental, usually in a pushadinho of an auto constructed extended house. Some are rental apartments and buildings constructed by commercial developments. Rent does not fix people to place, but rather allows them to circulate. What I'm characterizing here as the new formation of collective life has certainly many dimensions, and many of them is still unknown. But there are two more important aspects associated with it I want to emphasize pursuing of higher education and participation in collective school achievers is determined Portuguese. The delayed motherhood as well as experiments with ways of living together are usually associated with pursuing other plans beyond the family, especially higher education. The university is the space of ambiguous experiences. It certainly means an opening of of possibilities. However, contrary to what is usually thought, the most important of possibilities is not necessarily professional, but rather possibilities to engage in collectives and cultural production. There is a clear mismatch between an university degree and professional life. Although young people typically study and work, these two experiences do not necessarily complement each other. Many people attend courses that become available to them to public programs but frequently they are neither in their air of interest, nor allow for insertion in the job market and a professional career. Even people who graduate from an elite university such as the University of Sao Paulo find themselves without alternatives in the job market and force into what is being called uberized labor without, which means a temporary labor without contracts and over exploited. This is one of the deepest sources of frustrations for the young people who make incredible sacrifices to graduate from a new university and who have several stories of humiliation and racism to tell about attending classes with uber class kids. In this context, the most powerful thing the university ends up offering to these young people is the possibility of having access to new modes of thinking, and especially of organizing. They create networks, engage in collectives, and participate in a very vibrant scene of cultural production and the peripheries. The social movements associated with all the construction in their mode of political participation that I discussed earlier and that uninsured were part of have basically disappeared. They have receded together with the PT, no longer present at the neighborhood level. Young people who are organizing today belongs to collectives, collectives, small groups of people who get together to discuss common problems to take care of each other and to promote events. They have two main formations. On the one hand, they deal with issues of identity articulating questions of gender and race, usually from an intersectional perspective. On the other hand, they are cultural producers of poetry, music, theater, graffiti. Both forms can be activists, such as this group that offers legal assistance to women. In general, people circulate among all these forms and also use the internet to build their networks and support their interventions. Feminism is at the basis of the action of all types of groups involving women. It is a reinterpret branch of feminism that they call peripheral feminism, one that elaborates their experience of class, gender, race, and sexuality. As far as we could tell, it was in these feminist collectives that the expression solo mother originated. So now let me just start to conclude. The emerging formation of collective life that I'm identified has many important differences in relation to previous formation. One of the most important is a transformation in a dominant perceptions of time and space and in the type of narrative used to describe them. The transformations that happened during the process of construction of auto construction could predictably be narrated in terms of a linear logic, a narrative of progress, improvement, social mobility, in spite of immense difficulties and sacrifice. This logic articulated both the discourses of auto constructors themselves and of social analysts and policymakers. These changes and experiments occurring today cannot be narrated in the same way. There is no clear progress and improvement to be reported. The university which might offer the most predictable indication of social mobility, more often than not fails to do so. There are not enough jobs or professions to absorb the skilled workers from the peripheries. There are no private housing properties to demonstrate progress either, no improved houses to show distinction. The current changes have to be narrated in other terms as both the temporality and the spatiality that people experience are different. There are constant changes and movements, but they are circular and their logic is that of the transitory. Movements are lateral among more or less equivalent options. These are constant displacements among spaces, family arrangements, sexual options and job opportunities, but not necessarily a project that unifies them and aligns the experiences as auto construction did. The narratives are of constant movements of circulating among possibilities. The predominance of transitoryness signals deep transformations in terms of notions of space and time. Provisional spaces known in your times is spaces which we with which one does not create deep emotional connection is spaces from which one will move. Plans are short term temporary. They are not plans for a lifetime, but for the moment. The normalization of transitoryness does not mean that other perceptions of time and space is to exist. That auto construction disappeared completely or that social mobility became impossible. Rather, it means that they are not as dominant as in the past, that there are other prevalent possibilities. In fact, a combination of linear and cyclical notions of time, both of which have been dominant in modern Western society's continuing to orient people's practices and perceptions. As Kozalak has argued, at each historical moment, there are different sediments of time that result from different experiences. Historical times, he argues, consist of multiple layers that refer to each other in a reciprocal way, though without being wholly dependent upon each other. Thus, assuming that in contemporary societies, we will find several sediments of time and practice of space. I use the notion of transitoryness to conceptualize simultaneously a mode of perceiving time and organizing practices accordingly that is different from both the cyclical and the linear progressive notions that have been dominant in industrial society. And a mode of perceiving spatial practice that emphasizes mobility and circulation, instead of production of an attachment to fixed places. Transitoryness is an articulation of time and space that is becoming increasingly prevalent, and that is central to what I propose is a new formation of collective time, of collective life, sorry. It's crucial to understand this new formulation of collective life is transitoryness, it's radical remaking of ways of living together. It's important to do so for many reasons. Think for example of the consequence for urban planning to consider housing from the perspective of transitoryness. Think of the consequence for social policy to consider that the nuclear families just a minority arrangement, and that an increasing number of people opt for individual modes of living, including solo motherhood. The analysis of change in Sao Paulo just presented may also allows us to interpret some crucial political developments in Brazil, such as the support for Bolsonaro. Of course, this argument would require another paper, but I hope you can accept my suggestion that the core of Bolsonaro's necropolitics is a reaction against all that these new transformations represent. Bolsonaro is obsessed with what it calls gender ideology, which basically means that it is shaking by the empowerment of women and LGBTQ people, and by the ways in which they have already changed Brazilian society. It's most famous gestures and influential fake news reaffirm an aggressive and grotesque masculinity and express hatred of women and LGBT people. The examples are many and well known. But let me show you just one a post that circulated on Facebook, among the residents of Camalha's just before the 2018 elections. People commenting on it usually express confusion. All the uncertainties and insecurities associated with the transformations of hierarchies and everyday relationships, and especially gender, and especially anxiety is related to gender roles are made explicit. The word has taken a turn to the pathological side to craziness and this is dramatized as a rehearsal to the end of the to the end of times and explicitly pent the cost of theme. Bolsonaro has been a master in fostering this confusion and uneasiness with the new configurations and presenting himself and his policies as the restoration of heteronormative and authoritarian order. His public policies aimed at arming men in forcing diametrically oppositions between male and female destroying the policies that allow young people from the periphery to attend the university. In addition to policies to defend sunshine science and higher education. Bolsonaro so totally mismanaged health policies during the pandemic that a Senate report released just last week accuses him of deliberated engaging in mass homicide. As destructive as this policies and Bolsonaro has been, and despite the support that they still have, and the raising numbers of feminists sites and killings of LGBTQ people, especially transvestites. They have been unable to destroy the collectives that proliferate in the peripheries. They have been unable to prevent people from living in other ways, despite the reactions of hate this generates young people are already living other lives. Thank you. Thank you, Professor Clara that was, you know, their lecture has taken us through a path of discovery of the people and families living in Sao Paulo's periphery, and a grounded and situated way of reading cities. And especially I come away with a notion of this transit or in this to help us understand a mode of perceiving time and of organizing practice accordingly. And you argue that this is in stark contrast from both the cyclical and the linear so called progressive notions. So I have three questions. I will open up to questions from the floor and also through the chat room. So the first has to do with the nature of family and collective life. And you have placed your research in a large context of ascending position of woman in labor and domestic spheres, and the weekend linkage with factory work and auto constructed homes. And that's how this transitory notion has emerged. You also appoint to you also point to as an underlying current the rising awareness and solidarity about the formation of families and intimate relations distinct from conventional norms. The graphs really struck me. Like, I when I was reading your notes I didn't see the graph that the drastic decline in total fertility rate happened right around 1980. And, and, and many people call that 1980s, the decade of despair for Latin American countries, partially because of the in depthness of many national economies and so I'm that also kind of reinforce my question to you is to what extent are we seeing this transitory notion also as a survival strategy to overcome economic hardship and social isolation, particularly the withdrawal and the lack of the state in providing social safety nets. And other kinds of public services required of, you know, cities and neighborhoods. Particularly in this woman's role as solo mothers. So that that's my first question. And if you want to. I can ask all the questions or please. Thank you for this question. The Brazilian demographic transition as it's called by the margher first has been the subject of many studies exactly because it was so sharp and so southern. So in like in 20 years you go from from the situation and you have like six children for women to basically be low too. And the first explanations that appeared are exactly in the direction that you suggested that they had to do with some kind of economic crisis. But the fact is that it's not there. You cannot explain it in economic terms. One of the questions is it's much harder to raise a child as a single solo mother than in a family. And so this this families are having a much harder economic situations than when they are, they are in the nuclear family. But all the studies have shown that what really explains the decline is a change both in health policies and on telecommunication policies. And in the two ways like the health policies is because you had an incredible extension of health services around the country and the health and the health infrastructure offers birth control to women who are eager to get them. So you had the possibilities of controlling your fertility available to you you have better health care and the availability of birth control that's one side. But the other side is why would women suddenly look for birth control. And then there were very fascinating studies that was done basically by Brazilian sociologist called the marfaria. Who showed that this the women who are trying to control their fertility and have the smaller families were basically following the model of what they understood as a modern family. And the model is a modern family was presented to them through soap operas in which were mass in mass television, in which the model family never had more than two children, because they were always upper class families. And so what was presented to everybody as what is a modern, functioning happy family was a family of no more than two children. And that's the. And so there was like this relationship of the women with this mass communication model basically presented to them that's changing their perceptions. Why would they have six children who was so hard and they could only have to and be and have other lives. Yeah, I mean that that is because I'm also thinking of China that in a matter of couple decades also experienced very significant reduction in that total fertility rates, but it was primarily the result of very draconian state intervention. And that's the main difference. There was no policy of population control. Yeah, and then what's also interesting in your lecture in this transitory notion has also a lot to do with people's attachment to their homes right and to their houses no matter they were rented or built. So that is my second question, and particularly as you said linguistic expression matters, you know, in terms of the single mother, and then the solo mother phrasing. And so, and the emergence of solo mother as an accepted expression reaffirms the agency of this woman. I could not help but be drawn to also your use of auto construction throughout the lecture right so in the past, we've used terms like that are settlements slums self housing sites and service etc to describe a similar kinds of housing arrangements or settlement patterns that have been experienced and or developed by specially migrants would come from rural areas to the cities. So I'm really interested in your thought on in what ways does the term auto construction differ from these different terms I just gave some examples for in its meaning both literally and beyond. Okay. So that's a very interesting question I think we can talk a lot about that. So the term auto construction. It's, is what anthropologist would call the native term in Latin America, both in the Spanish and in Portuguese you use this term, and people would call themselves constructors. Yes, there is a word in Portuguese for them. And I tend to follow their use. So, there are several other terms, both in Portuguese and Spanish and in other languages that would like the other most popular term in Brazil would be favela favela which translates more like slum. And there is a main difference between auto construction and favelas because favelas usually you do not have a claim to property, and you do not have a claim to own the lot. So people here bought the lot. And so and that's the large majority especially in the case of some follow their lots of favelas in Brazil, especially in Rio and Hacife, but they're also this fact that people bought their lots and therefore they have certain claims of citizenship that they don't own the basis of being property owners. So I do not use the other terms, both because I want to refer to what they, what they use. I do not want to use the term is long because I, I think that is the term is long is homogenizing. It's, in a way, derogatory in many ways. And so if I use a term that is not the most recognizable also makes people pay attention to, to what I'm talking about, instead of immediately interpreting it like Islam, everybody interprets in a certain way already the same thing as a spot of settlement. And so and I think that in this term out of construction is used to all Latin Americans also used in several other parts of the global south and colleagues like both in South African and India, who use the same term instead of using Islam and self help is more like a kind of older term. Yeah, I still remember in reading about John Turner, yeah, you know, all of the writings about sort of the trajectories of migrants right when it comes to the cities they rent and they then actually it's considered progress as they move to that peripheries and construct their own houses. And this also then speaks to particularly for the benefits of Dr students here are those who hope to embark on research career of this method of inquiry, right then you have used and especially how you are trying to be closer to the sort of a sensor of reality constructed by the residents themselves. And I also, I'm just also struck by the deep connection you have with the families of Anna and church you. And so, I still remember a colleague commented number of years ago for those of us who do research what we do in research reflects who we are in life. And, you know, I have has. I have also studied the housing and settlement experience of migrants in China had to abandon one direction research because the seemingly insurmountable social distance in between. So, I really am very interested in learning from you how do you build, you know, how have you built trust and long standing connections with the women and families. And, and how do you manage to added physical distance now imposed by the pandemic in really to on, you know, in understanding their fairly steady and sometimes hectic change of practice right and as you mentioned they're not systematic. They're not directed by certain narratives but they happen accumulatively they lead to see change. So as a scholar. How do you manage that. You know, relationship with who you study. This is a very long conversation. Let me see if I give you a short answer. Obviously, my relationship and my conditions of doing food work in the briefcase have changed a mess in the last 40 years. And I just finished writing an article about that experience that I wrote in Portuguese is aptly to enter into debate with those people who are working with me as research assistants. But the first article I ever published in my life was about my experience of field work, and it was basically it was called an incursion and the non respectable side of field work. And it was my reflections on the power relationships involved in field work and my main question was, why do those people be friendly. Why do they talk to me. And I think that for the last 40 years this has been in question in my mind, and I have had to give different answers to it. I think that my most intimate relationship with this with the women especially were in fact with women of honest generation with was the first people I encountered who became very close friends we're all involved in women's movements in the late 70s and 80s and we became very close, but I still had the sense that I was very young at that moment. They were older than me. Why were they talking to me. Why are they telling me their lives where are they telling me their secrets where are they telling me think they were not telling anybody else. And that I could only explain in terms like I had a very full coaching analysis in this article and I said this is power. It's only only power the fact that I'm an upper class woman who arrives there and who comes from the university and supposedly know things that makes them talk to me. So this only start changing 20 years after when I start working with the man who were cultural producers, when I start working with rappers and graffiti artists and tigers, and these people would not talk to me. And they would. It was the first time that I have people refusing to talk to me was shocking and I had to elaborate on it. And they would not talk to me because they did not need to talk to me why they need to talk to me they could go to their web pages and say whatever they wanted why they needed to talk to me. At that time, I managed to talk to them. And I realized that we had to frame our relationships in a completely different way. With the first generation, basically I entered their private universe, I entered their houses I learned about their children, I became God mother of their children. I entered their private space with this other generation of young man, we would interact only in public space. So my research was their public about their public intervention in the space of the city about their tags their graffiti, their wraps. So I interviewed them as someone who was interest in their production. And as actually I figured out that the only way that would happen if I presented myself as a producer as well. So I would call them and say I have this book here that I wrote about the proofreads, and I would like to talk to you. So give them my book, they would talk to me about what they did, and all our interviews were in bars or cultural centers, or subway stations in public space. And it was clear that I was not going to ask to follow them. I was not going to tag with them I was not that was out of the question. So we had a totally public interaction. So with this new generation of solo models now. It's, it's the most tense relationship I ever had and few work. It's because this woman basically they are university students, and they are not interested in accept my presence as like an old very for them very old university professors, as someone who wants to talk to them. There is an antagonism that is established there. And so the, my relationship with them is also in public spaces, I don't go to their houses. But is like this dialogue across different so we have to negotiate our difference. We have to negotiate our class difference. I have to talk about my, what they call my whiteness, and my being from the bourgeoisie, and I have to talk to them in this terms. And so there is no the same kind of identification that anthropologists love to see like you become native. No way, I've never became native that was an illusion I never have. I would never be from the peripheries that was not what I was. I'm always talking to them across differences but the type of difference that I'm negotiating change it over time. And today are explicitly like my relationship with my collaborators is one, they are contesting what I say 24 hours a day. So and that's how we managed to produce something together. Thank you. I'm glad to ask you the last question. That is a very, all the questions were very good. So we'll open up to the floor. Anybody here or on the zone link, please. You can drop down your question in the chat box or raise your hands, however you like. Yes. Thank you very much for your lecture today. So I thought it's very interesting when you talk about the male youth in San Paolo at one hand that they want freedom and self autonomy. They also kind of, they don't want to, they don't have family, but at the same time they still want to kind of collective belonging of the community they form. So I'm wondering like whether they feel they are original family kind of disempowering them, of their own experiences and the background, and instead they feel that the community they formed in this alternative way is more empowering, because the family is not peripheral in the urban space. So now they feel this new ways like, yeah, give them a higher sense of empowerment. Yeah, that's a very interesting question. I, I think that my research with the young men is just kind of the starting, but I think that there are the sense of like, for example, the rap community that one is the first one I study. They all call themselves monos, which means brothers, right? It's a fraternity. And they think of themselves in those terms. So they think of themselves as a group of young men that relate to each other with this, the bond of a, of a brotherhood in a way. And, and that's all over hip hop. So I think that, and they totally, the question of masculinity among rappers in Brazil and everywhere is very serious and contested. Those are groups of men. They usually don't want women around women to be part of the hip hop scene, especially in the 1990s, they would explicitly say to me we have to be like man we have to belong to behave like men, we have to fight, we have to be aggressive with them. So there is, there is the need of belonging. There is the fact that they, many of them don't have a stroke, don't have a family they can speak of. They always have some family bonds, but they don't, they have a mother, but they do not usually have a present father. And that's one of the teams that is thematized a lot by rap. So I think there are several things that can be explored, but I think that the collectives, obviously, obviously offer a space of belonging for people who either don't want to have others, or don't have others or don't have a chance to have others. Some women in these collectives, they say I don't want a family, I have my collective here, so this is my family. So they think of those where they will have their emotional ties. This would need much more, this is a crucial point, would need much more research than I have been able to do it until now, but that's where I'm going. Thank you for talking again. You mentioned that the percentage of households who own their homes goes from 58.92% in 1980 to 72.99% in 2013. So I wonder. In that neighborhood, right? In that neighborhood. Yeah. So I wonder if, is home ownership still a form of achieving social upward mobility, or, or where is this growth coming from. And then, like, do you expect a decline in home ownership with this new generation, where spatial transitoryness and mobility seems to be like the trend right now. I think that home ownership was the trend among this generation, like of Sajran and those, if you, that same table shows that 80% of the people who lived in the neighborhood lived there for over 20, over 10 years. And that's the percentage of young people had declined sharply. Right. So what happened is that there was a generation for which home ownership was the alternative. I expect that that percentage to go down. So as young people like, look at this family, so like they are not buying, there are six children only two on their house. So, and I think that that's going to change. And I expect that to diminish, but obviously the people who are there are still homeowners, right? So you have the peripheries of Sao Paulo, 80% of residents are homeowners. They are property owners, 80% of the residents of the peripheries, a huge number. So what's starting to change is the generation of their children. Nobody knows, for example, what's going to happen when Anna's and Sezio's house has to, when they die, Sezio has already died. Anna is now 76. So they, when they are no longer there, what's going to happen to their house is something nobody knows, because there are six children in one house, and nobody knows exactly what's going to happen. And that's, nobody knows the succession of this generation, what is really going to happen because we're not there yet, but we're going to get there soon. If I may follow up a little bit on that, that in Brazil, in many cities, you know, quote unquote the favelas, a lot of it was through invasion, right? So save, you didn't have the lot, but you constructed your own homes on the lot that you bought. You know, how does the ownership actually work out? Yeah, that's another huge thing because there's, for example, in 1970 in Sao Paulo, only 1% of the population lived in favelas. It's very low. Right. So the majority of people were living in this auto constructed house to live in an auto constructed house means that you have a claim to ownership doesn't mean you have to do it. Right, so because there are lots of irregularities and illegalities involved in those transactions. So, there is a, is the legal murkiness around it, but you have the claim which is different than the claim of people who invaded land. And so it's how this is going to be resolved. It's a big discussion. One of the things that the city of Sao Paulo has been doing for many years is to give amnesty. So you declare that it's impossible to solve the legal mass that happens in those houses. And so you declare that the whole neighborhood, then, if you have been living there for over five years and you have good indications that you paid for it, you pay taxes, but anyway, there is a whole list of things. Then you get to the title. It's actually in the, in the Brazilian Constitution from 88. It is a big thing. It's called is Uzucapia, which translation would be adversary possession, but it's done for neighborhoods in the same thing in Mexico in Mexico they have legalized like 30,000 houses at a time with one law that legalizes them. I wanted to ask about some of the links between what processes are happening in Brazil with other processes in Latin America and globally, and maybe getting to a comment on the broader work that you're doing in partnership with with these other scholars, because I think here in the United States, changing family structures, I think there are some echoes and some evocations to what's happening there with the pan Latin American movements for abortion and the Green Bandanas that has kind of gone from Mexico to Argentina, right. So, and even with scholarship like iris Marion young around the city as a place for difference and accommodation. Where, where do you see these, these particular trends of collective life is as maybe unique to Sao Paulo, and where might these be in conversation with broader trends happening global. I think that this is a thank you for the question. I think I've been working with my colleagues exactly to figure that out. I think that the, the most similar case in the cases I study is jacarta. And Abdul Malik Simone has a, he has been writing on temporariness. He has a very interesting article in which he discusses this new generation of young people in jacarta that keep moving they keep migrating they move from one place to the other, and they use this expression that I think is could be used in Brazil but people there use these expressions to park. So they say, I need a place to park my mother. I need a place to park my belongings while I do this or that, or I need a place to to park for a while, and you may be parking for a long time. But you are not assuming that that's your place is just a place we're parking. So I think that would be the closest one in India is people obviously move a lot and they're been incredible rural urban migration in the last years, but these structures of the family are completely different. So my colleague Gotham Bond tells me that solo mothers and impossibility in Valley, and that there is no family without a man, and that you would not be able to to survive in like a, in this kind of arrangement, and you not want to talk openly about your sexuality, either if it's not like something's standard, like remember that homosexuality was illegal in India until like what two years ago. So it's a completely different situation, and but both my colleagues in both Malik and gotten and Kelly and myself, we have been talking that there are transformations and collective life that are so significant that we cannot continue to think of the previous formations in the same way. So we are trying to write about those four cases together. It's not been the easiest we wrote one piece about the pandemic, talking about the four cities together but I think that there are the main difference is between India and the other cases, and in South Africa has also so many particularities about the ways in which the neighborhood of the poor people were formed that makes it more complicated to discuss. My question is, well thanks a lot first for the talk. And the question is about in Latin America like the family is like a really important part of life and like territory and cities and the way poor live is arranged a family. Do you think now that conception is changing or it's a different way of family but still like affections is the way that like life is shaped or even life is shaped so I actually think it has already changed. I'm just trying to catch up. So I'm trying to go after the change so and any change it under the rather, right. People were not putting on the news that like, I'm changing my family life, they were just changing it. I think that it, what I'm trying to do now is just go after and document and understand the directions of that change. So, and, and the same way I'm not the only one who understood the change both sonato and the right wing and the Pentecostals also understood it and are panicking about it. It's just the difference is that I'm not panicking and welcoming it but it's the, but I think it has already changed. It's like when we started seeing the drop in fertility rate. It's, there was, there is no point of going back what are you going to do tell the women that I should have a children again. So, because you like the extended family and the big family. No, it had already changed those women were not going to have a children. So, and that's the end. And we just have to go after and try to understand how that changes how that became possible without you even seeing it. And I think that's, that's what's going on here. Thank you for your lecture. So when you talk about auto construction, I can help link it also to Mexico and the experience with remittance houses. Yeah, that are auto constructed through us dollars by workers living Mexican workers living in the US, they send back to their families. So, I mean, these are very obvious. They clash against like the rural setting. They're constructed over time. So they're different from the rest of the homes, I guess. And I was just wondering if there's a similar like in your experience or in your research. Is there a similar situation with migration in Brazil. There isn't because there there are migrants from Brazil in other places but not in the same kind of number that you have in Mexico and remittances is not an important item in the in the budget of households. So actually I've never encountered someone who had received money from abroad to to build the house. It's not part of Brazilian migration is an internal migration. Most of the time is not been. And when there is a migration like to the United States is an elite migration. So the people from Latin America from like from Columbia from Chile from Argentina, who are abroad are the elites. They, they migrated during the military dictatorships because they were opposed to the military dictatorships, and they continue to move today for economic and other reasons. But it's not like a working class peasant actually migration as it happened like in Central America and in Mexico and the north of Latin America. There's an Ecuador, who has an incredible migration of people who are in Spain is one of the main groups of migrants in Spain is Ecuadorians, but it's totally different from, and they are maids, they are women who move to act to Spain to become mayors maids. I think there's a question there from Calvin. Thank you so much for the talk. I am really interested in like how these new forms of collective life and these new expressions of collectivity. And how they compare to older examples like you were mentioning that I believe Sergio was like a major activist in the Labor Party and as well, Anna was active in women's movements. I think these new forms of life are sort of fueling the rise of the right throughout the world through fear, but I was wondering if you see any ways that these, these new lifestyles can sort of provide a politically effective force against that Ascendant right. So, I think that, obviously, those new forms of organizing collectives, they are very political right that they are a form of political organization. They are completely dissociated from all the types of institutions that prevailed before. So they are dissociated from political parties who they all considered to be corrupt. They are dissociated from trade unions they are dissociated from neighborhood associations they are dissociated even from that like the religious organizations that are very powerful and in neighborhood life. So they are like a parallel form of organization and one of the main thing is that they are totally non hierarchical. So there is all of the other organizations had a hierarchy, like the parties, the unions, the, the, the religious groups, etc. Those collectives are radically known hierarchical. So everything is an assembly. Everything is decided by consensus. Nobody's the leader. There is no leadership. There is just the collective. So is this kind of group that talks collectively on what they agree upon. They are very small groups. They make, they act by forming networks, but those networks are not fixed. So it's not, there is not a structure there. So they are like nodes in a, in a network society. So they, they connect to they connect especially through social media. And I think that obviously their connectivity at a certain moments works as a network of support, but, and during the pandemic it this has happened, but that's it. So there is no leadership. There is a completely different mode of organizing. And that's, and, and that's what people are interested in. They are not interesting big groups, and especially not interesting having a boss and having a leader. So it's just like, it's a completely different way of thinking of political life. Let's take the question from online and we should probably wrap it up. So this question from online is from marine who says thank you for your presentation. When families used auto construction in the past is it was a way of securing their future leading up to retirement. With current generations of families so the mothers and other groups actively moving away from auto construction as they seek autonomy and individuality and upward mobility that is independent of flowing land. How they envision securing their future spaces and guaranteeing their livelihoods. Yeah, they are not thinking about it. And that's the, that's the story. So is this question of how you leave this, this moment, there is not necessarily, I am sure mothers think of the future of their children. But it's not that they think that the future of their children we guarantee by having a house, maybe they think like that that's not what they say at the moment. So is just like their, the arrangements will be will be temporary. And I think that the Jim James Ferguson, who is a very interesting anthropologist who thinks about several countries in Africa has been writing very interesting things about the new kind of types of social security that will be created is in a African countries are in countries of Latin America, after you dismantle both employment and, and, and it's the structure of social security, because the whole structure like there is retirement in Brazil, and the retirement is totally associated with your labor industry. So all those people who worked their whole lives, even if they worked as like janitors, they have certain claim of retirement. Right. So, once you do no longer have formal labor employment that doesn't work anymore. So, and immediately you arrive at situations like that are very common where Jim Ferguson works like in Namibia in South Africa, in which you have to reinvent social security in a way that it is, it gets to be disconnected from retirement, and probably be disconnected from home ownership as well. So it's like your history of credit is got already disconnected from home ownership, you have credit based in other things than instead of being a homeowner. And I think that the pandemic has proved this, because like in India and Brazil in South Africa, everywhere, the governments had to invent new forms of guaranteeing income to the population that was totally disconnected to their histories of both employment or home ownership. So countries will invent other systems of social security and I think that is definitely a fantastic theme for us to investigate what will be those those systems. And I think that Jim Ferguson is the person I, I know of who has been taught more directly about this. And he just say the state will just have to have a minimum income grant for the majority of the population. Okay. Thank you very much.