 So good afternoon, awesome, awesome, awesome. Hopefully you all got a little sunburned and sweaty on your tours and enjoying downtown Phoenix and Roosevelt Row. I do wanna take a quick moment, a quick serious moment. One of our dear colleagues, Intermediate Arts, experienced a very tragic loss last night with the death of Kirk Washington Jr., an artist that they've been working with for a long time in Minneapolis. And I do wanna acknowledge the work that he's done and to take a moment of silence to acknowledge that loss. Thank you. So we have lots of folks that have been working really, really hard and really appreciative of all of the great knowledge that you all are bringing. We were really excited to let you all get inside of the Roosevelt Row project here in downtown Arizona. But one of the major critiques that we receive all of the time is that Creative Playsmaking Conversation focuses far too much on the urban context. So over the last several years, I wanted to let you know that 31% of the projects that Artplace has funded have been in rural communities. And over 17% of the resources that we've allocated over the last five years have gone to native, led projects and native communities. So in addition to some of the great conversations that are happening and breakouts that happened this morning, this afternoon and tomorrow, we're really thrilled and excited to create this plenary space to talk about some of the amazing work that's happening outside of the urban context that's really on the cutting edge of adding to the expertise that's necessary in our field. So we're excited to have Dean Capel back to help us moderate this session. And with that, I wanna invite the Dean up and our guests from Patagonia, Aho and Grand Canyon. Good afternoon. Yeah, we gotta overcome that afternoon. So how many people thought it was hot just now going walking up to Roosevelt Row? I laugh in your general direction. That was a chilly afternoon in Phoenix in the spring. It'll be hot a little bit later. But what's interesting about it is that doesn't stop us from enjoying the environment and reference was made yesterday about the feeling of attachment that people in Arizona feel to the state. And the interesting thing is that while we have a lot of work to do in terms of building community, and I think placemaking is a lot about community building, and I think we'll talk about that in this session, people who come to Arizona and are from Arizona are passionate about the environment and their attachment to the environment. And so I'm really excited about this panel because it talks about that environmental attachment as part of placemaking and all of the projects that our panelists will talk about. Talk about building on that passion for the environment and how do you take that passion for the environment and the natural resources that we're blessed with here and build strong communities on that foundation. So we have an excellent group that speaks to both the cultural and ecological diversity of this state, which is sort of an exciting panel because you get to learn more about Arizona at the same time that you hear about interesting projects and looking forward to a great discussion and I won't waste more time with preface before getting to our panelists. I don't know, I guess we could follow the order that's in the program for opening overview comments and I think Keith, you're gonna kick us off talking about placemaking Patagonia. So we'll start off by, for those of you looking for a compass heading south, south or beyond Tucson for those of you who wanna get there bearing. So Keith. Hello, so wow, this has been a really interesting experience for me so far. I feel like everybody here is thinking really, really big. We're in a big city. So a lot of discussions of big picture planning. I think right now I need you to think small. Think hummingbirds, about two inches, way less than an ounce. Think backyard and think Patagonia, Arizona which is population of about 905. One thing we didn't discuss was the slides. I don't know if that's the PowerPoint. I don't know if that's running as part of this. So this here, there we go. So my name's Keith Ashley. I'm with the Tucson Audubon Society but I'm here representing a small coalition of conservation organizations and independent artists and architects who are working on the project called Art, Eco, Placemaking Patagonia. With the Tucson Audubon Society, our mission is to connect people with nature through birds. Why birds? Because birds are incredible. They can fly. Some of these hummingbirds fly 7,000 miles twice a year from South America to Alaska and they fly from the same tree to the same tree. No app involved. They were not made by Apple. It's unbelievable. Oh, that worked, great. So our geographic community starts, maybe with this little fellow you can see here, this is a violet crowned hummingbird found pretty much nowhere in the United States of America except in Patagonia. They come into the area there because it's a really, really special ecosystem. It's actually the confluence of many different ecosystems. The picture next to this is the Patagonia Mountains and they are part of the Sky Island ecosystem. So Southeast Arizona, we're at the northern edge of this mountain system that's running through northern Mexico and we have these large mountain islands that are separated by the deserts and the dry arid grasslands that are kind of like the oceans and so they've developed these unique ecosystems and diversity of species. Our story in Patagonia begins in a backyard where a couple started feeding birds about 30, 35 years ago and as soon as they did, bird watchers started hanging out outside their fence, trying to get a glimpse of what was in the yard. This couple, Wally and Mary and Patton, they didn't respond the way a lot of people would, they didn't freak out, they invited the people into the yard and the people came and they kept coming to the point that when the Pattons passed away, 25,000 people were moving through this backyard every year in a city with a population of 905. That's sort of how where Tucson Audubon got involved, when the Pattons died, the property was passed along to us after a national fundraising operation and we had to face the question of what now? What do we do with this and how do we leverage this enormous number of people visiting one of the poorest counties in Arizona and this amazing opportunity for people to connect with the natural world. So that sort of leads us to the challenge and the opportunity that we were looking at. This is our infrastructure to serve those 25,000 people. Kind of snazzy, it's a canopy that I think might have been bought at Walmart in 2006 and we keep the rust off of it and keep washing the top of it. Obviously we needed some kind of infrastructure that was a little more inviting, that was a little more sustainable, that was a little more accessible and so we put out an ad for an architect in our weekly member email and some architects got in touch with this and they were really special people. Annie Curtin is one of them and she's here with me today. She is a lecturer at the University of Arizona and then also an independent architect and she immediately thought of Art Place and as soon as we started reading about what Art Place does, that was an epiphany. Oh, there are all kinds of artists who could help us solve our problems and recognize our opportunities. Another challenge that we face is the General Mining Act of 1872. That mining act says that anybody can go on to public land and make a mining claim if they have any reason to believe that there is say copper on the land. Well, that's happened recently in the Patagonia Mountains by six or seven mining companies. In Arizona, we've lost 95% of our wetlands. The reason that there's so many species, there's 212 species of bird that visit this backyard. The reason there's so many is it happens to be on one of those waterways that is still intact and that the Patagonia Mountains have not been mined for a long time. One mine could potentially destroy the entire water for the entire area, the town, all of the species. How do we leverage the 25,000 people coming through here to build a case that there's a better economy than the extractive economy? That there's economy built around nature and art because those are the two economic cornerstones of Patagonia. So, Annie turned us on to Art Place. We got together, we wrote the grant. We started meeting with people in the community. Well, we already knew the people in the community and we knew the problems, but we pulled together the Patagonia Creative Arts Association and a group called Borderlands Restoration that has a youth training program that trains local youth in the practices of habitat restoration. And we figured out this project that would hopefully solve a lot of our problems. There are really three strands to the project. One, we have the Patagonia Creative Arts Association finding local artists to help us build signage about birds and about the watershed and about the legacy of the patents and creating materials for schools around what they're, the art that they're making. And that's a way to communicate not with these people who are flying in from all over the country, but with all the local folks who maybe don't have access to the local birds because they don't have the same education and the same experience. Santa Cruz County is 80% Hispanic and we are not well connected with that population and that's something we'd really like to change by creating more access. Another part of the program is funding the Youth Restoration Education Project and helping them create arts media outreach about the projects that they're doing to sustain their community. And then the third part and sort of what we're hoping is going to become the heart of the site. So the site that used to be the patents backyard is now called the Paton Center for Hummingbirds. And it's stewarded by Tucson Audubon but it's more than an hour and 20 minutes away from Tucson in this rural community. And a bird viewing pavilion is the solution that has been designed as a way of providing access, creating presence, maintaining the intimacy of the backyard, connecting, we're creating water harvesting basins with native plants, we're modeling what people can do in their own backyards all over the country to bring birds back into both rural suburban and urban spaces really. And we're only in the first six months of our funding and we've just now from the design team received the very first sort of draft of the pavilion design. We're amazed, it's fantastic. We really think it's going to do the job and with all of the projects we're sort of moving forward. I think the last question of the four questions that Art Place asks us to look at is what does success look like? One way that we're gonna measure success is if there's still all of these hummingbirds in a hundred years visiting this backyard. Another way that we're gonna measure success is if we keep the numbers of youth involved that have been involved, a class at the University of Arizona made the first stab at designing the pavilion and then we're also engaging the youth in town, we feel like if we can sort of keep in touch with those two populations, the hummingbirds and the kids, we're gonna be pretty certain that we're moving toward success. Thank you. Thank you, Keith. And so that's one sort of surprising aspect of Arizona is that there's this riparian bird habitat wetland in the middle of Southern Arizona. You would never guess it from the sort of pictures you see of Arizona, which looks very dry and covered with cacti everywhere. And a couple of themes that I think we'll return to when we open this up for discussion because I think one of the challenges is that all three of these projects deal with tourism in a way and how do you get people coming and that's a source of economic activity but you don't want economic activity to be destructive. You want it for lots of different reasons but even on a purely economic level if it's gonna be sustainable economic activity it can't destroy the asset that you're trying to market. It's an appropriate theme as a segue because as Keith mentioned and I think most people know Arizona has a long history of mining and mining has historically been a central industry to this state, very important to its growth but in lots of different ways has a damaging legacy. The environmental consequences being one but people often don't focus on some of the non-environmental costs which is building communities that then are hollowed out when the mining industry moves on to other places. I was gonna say greener pastures but that's not really the right metaphor. And so Aaron is gonna speak to us about a community also in Southern Arizona called Aho which is one of those mining communities not that far from Patagonia but a very different physical environment and a very different set of challenges. Fantastic, thank you. Yes, so I'm Aaron Cooper. I'm the executive director for International Sonoran Desert Alliance and I have the opportunity to work in a really ecologically diverse but also culturally diverse space. We're a community development organization and we work at this intersection of three really unique cultures and so we have a Mexican influence that Thonaut the nation is there and then these border communities along the US-Mexico border that also have their whole other culture they bring to the table. And so for the last 20 years working in that space really with an environmental focus what we came to hear from a lot of these communities again and again was there's some real concerns about housing and there's some real concerns about economic opportunity about jobs to say this is what we're interested in and so finding a way to mesh those missions was really central to the International Sonoran Desert Alliance. So for the last 15 years we've been really focused on a community called Aho. It's about two hours south of here and many of you will get a chance to see it in the not too distant future if you're coming down for the post-gathering gathering in Aho looking forward to having you. And so it's in the middle of this really pristine Sonoran Desert. So to the west we have the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge to the south Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument to the east the Thonaut the nation and to the north the Barry M. Goldwater Bombing Range which is actually sort of strangely this unique preserve in and of itself. We are an old mining town as Jonathan referred to and it really started ramping up around the turn of the century. So John Campbell Greenway as a mine manager and things started getting ramped up along with his wife Isabella Greenway who is pretty well known in Arizona political history. They started designing a town center that they thought would be more attractive to families. So building it around a school, churches and shopping rather than sort of brothels and bars and bunk houses as many mining towns would be at the time. And so we ended up with this really beautiful historic town center from that. And it just grew to a peak, the community grew to a peak of about 10,000. In the mid 1980s declining copper prices along with really challenging miner strike ended up having the mine shuttered. So around 1985 that happened. And so from a community of around 10,000 down to around 2000 a very short period of time. And if you're not familiar with what a company town is like it's even more devastating when your employer owns your house or when your employer owns the local grocer that life really changes dramatically when that employer sort of closes shop and leaves town. And so that's the geography that we're dealing with and that's where we were working here. So unemployment levels in Ajo have consistently been about twice what they are in urban centers. So Phoenix or Tucson, poverty levels at 38%. So really for about the last 35 years this community has been in recession. And so that's the challenge. And so then the intervention is our focus has really been on preserving the historic structures and finding creative reuse for them. And so that's kind of what I'm gonna walk through here. And so the art place project will be pretty central to it but it doesn't make a ton of sense without some of the other joining projects as well. So I'll just kind of walk you through this aerial view of the historic town center of Ajo. Anchored at the top of the historic town center is the train depot which was the point of arrival. So it was really built this way to where you would arrive by train and you would have this moment of arrival where you would see this really beautiful arcaded plaza. You would have this swath of green in the center. Church is on either side and it would all frame this really pretty remarkable school building the Curly School. So that definitely the most prominent structure in the historic town center, the Curly School Building and then the former elementary school campus which became our art place project that has this really sweet sort of courtyard and it's a really kind of interesting moment there as well. So besides just being pieces of history that were in danger of being lost these were also some of the few places that a historically segregated town came together to do life. So it didn't matter whether you were from Indian Village or Mexican town or the Anglo town center these are some of the few places in the community. It didn't matter what your background was it didn't matter really your position you just came and did life together in these spaces. So all of them were in danger of being lost and would have been a real tragedy in our opinion if there had been. So the first foray into this creative reuse of space and historic preservation was the Curly School Project. So it's now 30 live work units for artisan artisans. It is a low income housing project and so is a low income qualifying housing project and we maintain even though I think there might be some in this room that would argue that we have the most spacious and beautiful low income housing in the entire country. So I know some of you in here would argue but we think we've got the biggest most spacious beautiful apartments around. So hopefully those of you that come see it can attest to that. So in addition to this Curly School Project we had this former elementary school and so we had some real challenges with the Curly School in that you had to be low income to qualify to live there and you had to sign a minimum of six month lease. So things like artists and residences couldn't really happen. People that made too much money couldn't come and stay there or if you just wanted to come for a short term period maybe to work on a book or something you couldn't come in and do that. And so we looked at the old elementary and were able to roll a developer fee from the Curly School into the purchase of the property and said, what can we do here to really supplement that mission? And so what ended up happening was we have this Sonoran Desert Conference Center which was our place funded project. It is now 21 sort of apartment slash hotel room type places that are for shorter term stays. Dorm for larger groups so it can house as many as 12 four multi-purpose classroom spaces, a wood shop, a clay studio, a large commercial kitchen, a farm to market garden and an orchard all in the courtyard. It's a really gorgeous suite space that sort of supplements that Curly campus as well. Been open for about a year, a little over a year and we are on track to be self-sufficient in this portion of it by fall of 2017. So very excited, it's really working out well and it is as by design has really become in this hub for ecotourism and cultural tourism and providing micro entrepreneurs a place to get those services out to a broader tourist and visitor community. So in 2008, our board sort of took a big breath and through a leap of faith rolled an additional developer disbursement into purchasing the town center, at least putting a down payment on the town center. And what we had realized is that all of this work that we're doing would be for not if there weren't a thriving sort of commercial center, a place where you can, artists can sell art, a place for visitors to arrive and have dinner and things like that, that it was really critical to the entire process and the entire project working out. And so that is what we've been chipping away at for the last eight years. It's still in process, it's still a whole lot of hard work left to do on it but that's really what's taken a lot of our time right now. So this is six buildings in the town center about 90,000 square feet of commercial space. When we purchased it, two thirds of it were vacant and two events a year happened in this central space. So since then, we have seen 12 new businesses, 23 jobs created and at last count there were 32 events that happened annually in the town center. And so really thriving farmers market that you can see here, a co-op gallery and our Chamber of Commerce now has a visitor center that is stationed here as well. So really exciting stuff happening. A lot of hard work left to be done but we're super happy to see that happening. But definitely our real metric of success has been to see the town center come back to life both from community members but also regional artists coming in and really sharing their work with our community at large. So for us, that's the metric of success and that's what we're so excited to see in the community. So hope to see as many of you as possible down there and please do come for a visit when you can. Thanks a lot. So one of the things that I think is instructive about these different projects as we go through them is how placemaking is not necessarily about bringing something new in that doesn't exist but rather about taking advantage of assets and using them creatively and constructively in ways that haven't been imagined before and that could be the natural environment but in the case of Aho, it's really taking advantage of the built environment that was there but wasn't being utilized in a creative way and in a way that was enlivening the community and we think of that in Arizona context, we think of that in some of a few places, not far in Southern Arizona is a town called Bisbee which was once a mining city really, almost more than a mining town and some of you may have heard of Bisbee or been there, it's a very lively place, sort of an artistic community but there are these pockets of built environment resources that are left over. I would argue that and can be utilized the way Aaron and company are doing so. I would argue that one of the most valuable resources we have in Arizona are cultural resources and particularly our tribal cultural resources and it's something that I am not a native Arizona, I came from New York but have just been thrilled to sort of learn more and more about the Native American legacy and populations and cultural assets that are sort of all around us here in Arizona, we think of them as being in the tribal communities but they're really everywhere and so I'm delighted to turn to sort of the cultural assets with Camille Ferguson who brought her expertise from Alaska of all places to Arizona and is now leading the Grand Canyon National Park Desert View inter-cultural, inter-tribal cultural center and will give us some background on that project. Thank you. Well, thank you. Well, this is so exciting. I am actually having the time of my life because one, I get to explain a wonderful project and two, I get to learn about all the projects and just kind of get the energy that's going on here in this room. First of all, as you had mentioned, I am from Sitka, Alaska. We talk about art and culture. Our language is just a beautiful piece of art as well and so any time I have the opportunity to say hello in my language, I jump right on it. So bear with me. I hope I just said thank you, ladies and gentlemen. My name is C.A. Stonkla and that is who I am and we can get a little more time. I'll tell you what that all means but right now I want you to talk about this project that I get to share with a group of other people. It's a partnership. The Grand Canyon National Park Desert View Intertribal Cultural Heritage Center and Native Artists Program is actually a joint program. It's in partnership with the National Park Service and Diane Shelfant, I know I can't really see you but I know she's here, oh there she is. She's been really more instrumental in actually moving this huge project along. It's in, you know, the American Indian Alaska Native Tourism Association is the association I work with. We actually work with the 567 tribes to help tribes tell their story their way and use tourism as a venue for economic development and perpetuation of cultures. This park is an example of a wonderful project that does all of that. But again, it's a partnership with the arts place. They, Ianta actually drafted the grant and we received a $500,000 grant where 50% is for the restoration of a beautiful facility which is called the Desert View. And I just love this slide. I actually stole the majority of the slides I stole from Diane. But it's a perfect time and a perfect place. And this is a grand project. We also partner with the Bureau of Indian Affairs who actually provided the technical assistance by providing consultants to help with facilitating this project. The neat thing about this project is it's not done by the National Park and it's not really done by the American Indian Alaska Native Tourism Association. It's actually done with our other partners. Those, it's actually done involving the community. And the our partners, when I say our other partners besides the American Indian Alaska Native Tourism Association National Parks, we also have the 11 tribes that live within the area of the Desert View. It is their, this is their opportunity to tell their story, their way, share their culture. And transforming this project is been very important. The project creates collaboration of a new kind for the National Park community. And this community includes the 11 tribes traditionally associated with the Grand Canyon who had lived independently for millennium. Approximately, and at this time when I first did the slide, we had the new, we had the data of 4.6 million visitors. Well, apparently that changed. We're expecting a little more than five million visitors to that area. So we also have the National Park employees and then we have the iconic beauty that just tells its own. And you can see just by the pictures, it's a splendid project. Now, the challenges and the opportunities, I think are the most impressive things about this project. The challenges consist of repurposing the Desert View in itself, just repurposing it, taking it from what it was to where it is now. And then taking the gift shops and redoing the gift shops, providing a place for the 11 tribes to tell their story, share their history. But what I think is really impressive about this project is the fact that we have 11 tribes working together, learning about each other, sharing their stories, telling their stories, and then providing a think tank to look at this area as a broader area for a bigger picture, for the sustainability of this area. It employs, it has employment opportunities, but the employment opportunities don't just stop just with the tribes and the National Park services, but it's the vendors that are there as well that are in the gift shops. They're actually having an opportunity to learn about what authentic artwork is and the stories behind it, and then be able to share that with the visitors as well, because they entail become students that become teachers themselves of a true story of an area. So it is a grand project. Now, what is happening there? What are the arts? And as I had mentioned, we have the cultural events, the cultural interpretations, the history, the stories, the tribal dance, and the art demonstration. This project is a perpetuation of them all. It's our ability to keep 11 tribes telling their stories, sharing their cultures, and passing it on to the next generation. So it is an incredible opportunity for visitors to also have a value added opportunity to an iconic world site and learn about it for a second time in a new perspective. So those are some of the things that you can experience. Now, how do we recognize the success? Well, devoted to tribal directed community use, anchored in tribal arts, and this is what I think is real important is it generates further investment. And I think that this is something that we're hoping that we can use this as a model for other national parks. And other areas so that they can have value added to an area that they're telling stories, but getting more involvement from the community and from the native people that had lived as ancestral on their lands. Then another big change is a systematic change of the National Park and how it presents native cultures. And one thing I really enjoy about this project, and that's because I myself am native and I enjoy the National Parks sometimes things are interpreted and native people are considered by gone people. It's really nice to say, we're here. We're still here. We want to share our culture with you so that you can experience a true visit to our native lands. And I think the most thing that's real important is the sense of a comfort in place. Now, I kind of jumped around a little bit, but I use this one. There's one picture where there's demonstrators sitting out there looking out the window and they look like they are very much enjoying their opportunity in their homeland sharing their culture and they're feeling comfortable about it. This project is something that I really, truly believe will be a model for other national parks. Now, there are some things I really wanted to do really quick like and I'll try to run through this little list real quick is the update since these slides were actually part of the vision of the grant. But just to give you an update of where it actually is, the Desert View Tower will have hosted 73 individual demonstrators for the 131 days of demonstrations. The visitors count for the time period is projected to exceed well over 500,000. Arts and crafts demonstrators include pottery, basketry, silver making, dancing, music, carving, painting and jewelry and sculptures. Speaking demonstrations include cultural authenticity presentations, native legends of the night sky and other stories. As traditional associations, all traditionally associated tribes of the Grand Canyon have been represented. All 11, which is incredible. Not only are the demonstrators compensated for their time through the grant, this is an opportunity also to provide them an economic benefit throughout direct sales at the Grand Canyon. The Watchtower conservation efforts continues and this is about the actual facility. The initial investigative study was completed in October 2015 and resulted in the treatment plan that was submitted to the Grand Canyon in February 2016. Conservators are scheduled to return early September 2016 to implement the treatment plan. So you can see that we're looking at preserving this for a very long time. And additional investigative work to address the building's envelope will occur November 2016 through January 17th and it will conclude. It'll be completed hopefully later in 2017. So as you can see, we are really proud of this project and I thank you all for giving us the opportunity to be able to do this. And I thank ARTS Place for this great project and the projects that are going on with that, thank you. So we have only a few minutes for questions. I wanted to start with picking up on a thread that really cut across all of the discussions, which is as we mentioned, there's a touristic component to every project and there's always I think in most communities that have a significant reliance on tourism and ambivalence about tourism because you want people to come, your economy relies on people to come, but you don't want to be overwhelmed by the tourists and there's a risk that the cultural and environmental assets that you're using can be destroyed by too many tourists. And I think this is true with respect to creative places generally that if they're too successful in drawing in others, it will degrade what it is that people are drawn to. I'm curious how you experience this tension and whether or not quite frankly, there was resistance to be overcome because of there's a local fear in the community that by buffing and shining, so to speak, it's gonna become too attractive and it will destroy what it is people love about it. I don't know, Keith, if you have thoughts on that. Well, it's definitely something that we've thought about. I think what we're seeing is that since Tucson Audubon got involved with the Patent Center and since we've been a little bit more vocal about the treasures that are there, it has inspired a lot of other businesses, organizations, sites in the area to also tout the riches of bird life that they have. And so all of those people coming in aren't just coming to our site, they're being more widely shared. Arizona Game and Fish did a study that found that $21 million was coming into that county just through wildlife watching, mostly birds. And publicizing that information, I think has been an aha experience for a lot of the other. There's a local ranch that's now offering birding tours. I mean, that people are seeing, oh, this really is a viable economic avenue that ecotourism could bring riches to this corner of the state. So rather than everybody focused right there in our little area, it's popping up all around. Aaron, how is that phenomenon played out in Ajo? Sure, and it's really at the core of a lot of our work is that the drive to maintain authenticity and how do you ensure that and how do you engage the community actively along the way through the process? And so we've done a couple of things. One that I'm particularly proud of and would love to share is that in the physical build out of the space, we started a journeyman apprenticeship program in building maintenance and repair. So we're actually engaging a lot of young people and some not so young people in the community actively repurposing the structures as a creative component of that. And at the same time, building capacity that will last in their future and they get a journeyman certificate when they finish and that whole thing. But I think the other is the balance between the need for talent attraction because there's certainly some talents that we just don't have versus really investing and uncovering the talent that's there. And so we certainly have worked to really find that balance and strike that balance and to be able to maintain a little bit of our charm and there may be some grumpiness or some slow service or things like that that you might hope to get rid of in a tourist town. But in some sense that some of our charm as well and so we're looking to highlight some of the and maintain some of those really key components for us. What do you think Camille? Well you know the nice thing about the National Park and working with the National Park is they're providing a venue for tribes that don't have the infrastructure already in place and that 10 people coming into some of these small villages or communities is too much and where it can inundate or they're not ready for it. I think by partnering with places that already have the infrastructure in place to provide quality, authentic experience and then already has those quality and controls in place to kind of control the traffic through there I think is a win-win. How do you avoid the problem of creating a Disney version of tribal life to make it more accessible and I think this applies more broadly but it's clearly a risk, you want it to be accessible you want it to be something that people can wrap their arms around but it endangers a sort of simplified, homogenized version of the culture you're trying to give access to. You know and that's a good question I get asked that all the time working as a national organization and going internationally abroad trying to get rid of that Disney, cowboy and Indian stereotype has always been a challenge and keeping that away and so Ianta or our organization really partnering with the National Park of Maintaining Authenticity and Integrity of the Place and we're just incorporating the people to that. Most we promote working with our elders you know started with your elders and then work your way down and to maintain your authenticity and maintain the integrity of the people that you are actually representing and so that's the big push is don't be afraid to tell your story your way. It's when other people start telling your story their way and that has happened where we've had a tribe go to a festival where they ask them, well can't you dance harder? Because they're not fancy dancers they're traditional dancers. Maintain, you know. Where the hoops, right. Exactly, you know and there are they're different performers for different types of festivals but we promote keeping everything as authentic as you can. So I want to ask a different question it's somewhat self-serving because it's one of the areas that our college works in in some of the communities you're talking about is building the capacity of organizations in the community. We have actually done work in Aho and some of the other places that we're talking about. It seems to me a question for the sustainability of a lot of the projects that are places is behind and projects that look like this even if they're not is what happens in the years going out? How do you build an organizational infrastructure that makes it sustainable so that when you personally move on and there's a new generation it doesn't lose its not only momentum but capacity to be. And so I'm wondering how in each of your projects there's an organizational component that's building capacity so that it's a sustainable project that will be here when you're all gone from this and it goes on. Aaron, I'll let you jump in on that first. Oh great, thank you. Now that is a huge challenge for us and it's kind of apropos in that I have just recently in February stepped in as executive director of our organization and so that's actually a really great example of how Tracy Taft has really tried to build that in and I think again the part of the key there is that we've really focused on uncovering talent and investing in people that are there because you can't hire for passion. You can hire for some really critical skills and things like that but you can't hire somebody that loves a place. That's the important part and finding those people that care deeply and love a place and then investing in building capacity through what you have I think is absolutely critical in a sustainable sort of long-term project like this. Keith, what's your approach on that? Well, my first comment, I don't know if it answers your question but it's what came to mind for me in a sense working with these architects and artists they're building capacity for us. They're doing what we as a staff can't do. We don't have those skills. They're helping us reach our outreach goals which the more outreach that we do, the larger our sort of demographic is, the more people we're reaching. Hopefully that means the more sustainable we are into the future because we're valued by more people but what's really interesting to me in this working with these artists is I think they're doing what we as conservationists and as a conservation organization that's not our skill set, that's not our talents. They're building our capacity and that's really amazing to me. As far as building the capacity so that in the future we can have a stronger staff, a more sort of stable organization as a non-profit I think the outreach does that. I think part of the problem with bird appreciation is that it's a kind of a niche market at the moment but I don't see why it should be. There are birds in every community. Birds are deeply embedded in human consciousness. They symbolize freedom and beauty and power and they're in everybody's yard. If this site that reaches so many people can really reach the entire county, the entire Southeast Arizona and make more and more energy with more and more people that's what's going to build our capacity I think. Camille, how does this become a sustainable? You know, that's really, that's always been a question how are you going to be sustainable? How are we going to keep our cultures going and going? And it's through these partnerships and I'm a firm believer in partnerships and being able to create what we need to be sustainable and I think education is definitely a component and I was glad to hear that here because that's what I'm looking at currently just last week meeting with George Washington University to develop a tourism program that's focused on cultural tourism development which is an authentic sustainable program that can be taught and create actually a career in helping perpetuate and keeping our cultures alive. We historically have always been either the tribe selling their beadwork on the side of the road or we were in the park doing a demonstration what about being the leaders in these places that actually promote a tourism segment that is to promote and develop economic opportunities and the sustainability part of a portion of that is our youth and if our youth do not make an opportunity if our youth are not making ends meet I mean they're not making a making it's not a viable opportunity they're gonna go elsewhere. I mean it's just a proven fact that they will sit there and play a video game versus go to a culture class but if they see the values of both the balance of economic and cultural, the cultural balance then I see sustainability. Great, well thank you to our panelists I know we've used up our time but hopefully the group has heard about some interesting projects and learned a little bit more about what our state has to offer a wide range of incredible things that hopefully you'll have time to get out and explore so thank you to the three of you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to all four of you for sharing that great work. I'm back up here for some quick housekeeping. We are going to start the next set of breakouts at 4.15 not at four o'clock as originally scheduled. So as you saw in the presentations today these afternoon sessions are based in the four questions that are central to our place's definition of creative place making. There are eight sessions and so for each question there are two sessions addressing specific content and strategies being used to respond to that definition. So under the geographic community you'll have a session for understanding place where they will be discussing the many ways that people experience understand and understand who and what makes up a community. At Getting Beyond Demographics as we heard yesterday from Amanda Lovely after we understand who is in our community how can we get beyond the traditional notions of engagement and actually reach the full breadth of the people that are in our place. Under understanding the desired community change we have a session for facilitating community dialogue where communities aren't we know that communities are not often homogenous in demographics and certainly not in perspectives. So this session will be asking the question what does it take to ferment a shared community vision in a heterogeneous community. For building cross sector teams we all know that inter sectoral or cross sectoral work is central to the success of these projects. And so this session will be exploring what are some of the strategies that people are using to work across silos. For how will the arts help achieve the change our third point in our definition the first session will call Generating Creative Solutions will discuss in what ways are artists strengthening communities not through their products that they create but more importantly through their creative process. Second will be in the creating art in and for place will they'll be discussing what does it take to ensure that artistic products reflect the culture and the aesthetics of a community. For how do we know that change is happening in a place the first session Creative Documentation will be discussing what do artists bring to research and documentation and how are they balancing the qualitative and quantitative analyses in that process. Last but not least turning within we also know that there's a lot of work we need to do in our organizations in order to sustain this practice. So this session will be asking the question how can we make sure to invest in our own capacity in addition to the desired changes we seek in our communities. As a reminder