 Welcome to our interview show in which we interview LGBTQ guests who are important contributors to our community. We want to acknowledge that all things LGBTQ is produced at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which is unceded Indigenous land. Enjoy the show. Hi everybody. I'm here with Emma Mulvaney-Stanik, who is a candidate for the Vermont House 6-2, which is in Burlington, the Old North End and the Noon North End. Is that right? Yeah. Welcome. Thank you. I'd like to start by reading a little biography of Emma. She's an organizer, activist, and mom. She founded a social change strategy consulting business, EM Strategies in 2018. Her clients include labor unions, educational equity organizations, and municipalities and school districts looking to develop meaningful community engagement strategies. She also supports historically marginalized people as they prepare and run for elected office as progressives and democratic candidates, and you've been endorsed by both the Democratic Party and the Progressive Party. Her past professional experience includes leading field organization and leadership development work at Vermont NEA for over a decade. Directing the Vermont Liveable Wage campaign at the Peace and Justice Center were the organization that I support wholeheartedly, and serving as city counselor from the Old North End. Emma also served as the state chair of the Vermont Progressive Party and on various nonprofit boards, including the Vermont Women's Fund, the Haymarket Peoples Fund, Governor's Institutes of Vermont, and most recently Robin's Nest Child Care Center located in the Old North End. Emma is a graduate of the Vermont Leadership Institute and Smith College with a degree in political science. Originally from Barry Vermont, she lives in the Old North End with her wife, Megan, and two small children. Welcome again. Great. Thanks, Anne, for having me. Well, thanks for coming on. Let's talk at the outset about how you happened to run. Can you tell us a little about that? Yeah, of course. Well, as you mentioned in my bio, I first was elected city counselor for the Old North End about almost 10 years ago now, and that story sort of shows my arc in political work because I remember walking to the polls on one town meeting day morning, super cold in Vermont, of course, in March, and going to vote and not having any idea who I was going to pick between the two city council candidates at the time, because they're both white men trying to represent the most diverse neighborhood in the entire state of Vermont. And I remember thinking, like, well, why aren't there more people running, at least women running for this position? And fast forward nine months to 10 months later, a similar situation was lining up. And I realized, if not now, when will I ever run for office? Like, why am I not the person putting my name in my hand up to run? And so I ran, ran and won my first elected office then. And then fast forward, life happens so much, right, where you change jobs, you worry about, you know, can I make enough money and still do this public service job in Vermont in terms of being elected because it doesn't pay much city council select board, even state representative does not pay much for folks to meet their basic needs. And then we're on top of that, I became a mom about five years ago. And now I have two young kids under five, a five year old and a one year old. And I kept saying to myself, this is, this is not the time I'm too tired, I'm going to stretch myself too thin. And then I realized when COVID hit back in March, April, if not now when became came back in my mind, and I don't know about most people, but I had a lot of self talk during that time, a lot of time to think and reflect as we were all locked down. And I realized a lot of the advice I have given to women in particular, but a lot of marginalized folks over the years, as I've been doing political coaching and encouragement of getting folks to run for office in Vermont, I often tell them there is no perfect time to run. And if anything, this moment in life that I'm living through right now as a young mom, as a new business owner now as organizer and activist, this voice is woefully underrepresented in the state house. And, you know, the perspective of women is woefully underrepresented in all of government. And in particular, as you know, a proud lesbian queer woman, we were even further underrepresented in these bodies. And so I realized now was the time. And I looked at my house seat, my district, and I felt like it was time to offer an alternative voice. So I challenged the Democratic incumbent. I won in August. And now I'm moving on into the general in November, fortune in six two. There was a little bit of an upset, the primary. It was, I mean, I, you know, I think that the challenging thing, and I think in our democracy is that a lot of people, there's this old narrative around wait your turn, that when the seat is open, that is the easier race. That's the more respectable thing to do. Let the incumbent decide when he, she, they want to step down. And, you know, I'm really inspired by Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez and her just brilliant way of upsetting our old frames of understanding if we're stuck in that frame of thinking this is what democracy is about. Where incumbents are, get to a point where they're so powerful that it would be to the demise of the local district if that person were to step down because they, they, you know, they surmise all this power. That's so dangerous because then it precludes women, mostly, but also black, brown, indigenous folks from running, queer people from running for office, because guess who's mostly in those positions? White heterosist men. So if we don't upset that frame and say it's healthy for democracy to have challengers and primaries. That's why they exist. I think that we sort of miss the point of democracy. So, you know, I was a little nerve wracking and I would try to be as transparent as possible to the incumbent. I was trying to run to provide an alternative. It was less about her and more about, you know, what do other people in the district want to explore as their leaders and I, and it seemed to work though in terms of resonating with the people in this district. They are ready for a change. Well, I read your victory speech and it was very gracious. I was really impressed by it. So that leads into the principled campaign that you've been running involving a return of the VSEA endorsement and a rejection of fossil fuel money. But before we get to those points, let's explore your platform a little more. You have very striking and I may say progressive views about racism, education, and economic justice. Tell us about some of those issues. Let's start with your economic justice policies. Great, yes. You know, for me economic justice has been a theme throughout my whole professional career. I started out of college directing the Vermont Liveable Wage campaign, as you mentioned, and it was both an eye-opening beginning in terms of organizing work and working on behalf of working people and with working people to understand the fundamentals of our capitalist system, to understand that income and inequality has really dire consequences, frankly. People struggle to make basic, when people struggle to meet their basic needs, there's a consequence to people's families, to their health, to the livelihoods and the success and health and love, frankly, of communities when people are struggling that way. And it's sometimes really hidden because the way that our capitalist system really sort of makes folks invisible, that it makes it and also this kind of, again, talk about frames, this idea that in America, in this country, it's your problem, it's your fault if you're not figuring out how to, you know, provide for your family. And that is such a false narrative and it's a false and it's a really dangerous narrative, especially for women, again, to be stuck in this place where there's already a gender wage gap to be able to figure out how to provide for their families, how to pay for child care, how to, you know, really figure it all out. And structurally, it's incredibly difficult. And so that first job is the little wage job, really helped me understand this idea of there's a gap between what people, the minimum wage in Vermont and elsewhere in the country, and then what it takes to actually meet your basic needs and there's a huge, what I would often call a canon or like a chasm in between those two points in your life and that's why people struggle so much. And so it was clearly pretty formative in my, in my life to have that as my first professional experience. I lobbied in the state house actually on minimum wage, which was also pretty formative because I realized one, you know, you do not need to be, you know, have a graduate degree and a law degree to engage in advocacy in Vermont. That's one of the most beautiful things about the state is that anybody can walk into that building and engage with legislators and anyone can walk in that building and engage with legislators and there's a lot of interest groups who do so and some who are not fighting for regular folks and working folks and why it's even more important to make sure that organizations like the Little Wage Campaign and unions, which is what I went on to do afterward, exist so that there is this powerful organized voice for workers. So I just truly, fundamentally believe in terms of values that there should be dignity for all and economically people shouldn't have to struggle if they work, if they, if they work and even if they need income in other ways, they should be able to meet their basic needs. That's a fundamental right in this country in this state it should be. And they should also retire with such economic dignity. So I have a lot of details on my website. I have a very thorough platform on my website because I felt that was important, but I won't go into great detail, but the basics of paid family leave, making that universal for folks, increasing them in minimum wage to livable wage and expanding workers rights. So allowing people to really have workplace protections and dignity and however they work today in this modern economy. Those are all some elements I'm really excited to explore in advance in the state house. Great, well let's move to the second topic and it looks like we may only get to two, but let's talk about racism in Vermont. Yeah, yeah, so I think that's a it's incredibly difficult one for many Vermonters to come to terms with because if folks are white they haven't lived often with the really harmful impacts of racism on a day-to-day basis. And any black person or otherwise you know identified person of color in the state would tell you a very different story about Vermont. In many ways I feel like Vermont has the most difficult time grappling with this because it's so hidden to white people. So to me, how do we bring that into light is starting to look at ways that state government equates racism, even if it's not intentional. There is bias in every organization because human beings are part of those organizations, those institutions. And so to really unpack that we have to look at what is the bias by the people who are running those organizations, what are harmful policies that disproportionately impact people of color versus white folks. You can look at any institution. It could be healthcare. We see that with COVID. The disproportional negative impacts of COVID, infections rates, and recoveries on black and brown people compared to white folks. That comes again back to income inequality and access and ability for people to be heard by their health care provider through this implicit bias you that's in every conversation and every interaction. So the other piece about racism is acknowledging that organizations can be leaders in that space or they could be supporters of the status quo. And so one thing that was a very difficult decision in my campaign was to return my BSEA endorsement. That's the Vermont State Employees Association. It's the labor union for the state employees. I had to think long and hard about that of course because my heart is in the labor movement. I spent most of my professional career organizing teachers and support staff bringing people on strike. I mean I was in the trenches in terms of really fighting for working people and I will always be an ally for labor as long as I walk this planet. But BSEA could do more. They represent again the state employees and the state institutions and they could be leading in this space where we know we have to do more in the correction system. We know we have to do more around any criminal justice group or employees to really analyze like where where is the negative impact and where does there is there just outright racism happening among folks who interface with members of the public. And so that was a challenge. The the returning of the endorsement was a you know I because I don't believe in cancel culture. So I really the returning of the endorsement was a calling in to engage in conversation and to really sit down and co-think together on how we can change conversation and how to just name when things are wrong and and to do better. And we look at policy positions perhaps that they hold on some of the criminal justice reform issues that came out like the chokehold legislation. It would have been great to see VSEA clearly come out against that. They remain neutral on that. They did not come come up with a position. And looking at other other systems that they interface with Woodside you know the Woodside juvenile system etc. There's there's room for them to grow. So it was a calling in offer. And I hope that they will be partners in that work as we head into January. Well I read your statement of rejection and it was very nuanced. I thought you clarified it. You know you support workers but you know it was a call to the leadership as you said. And it was a call to engage which is so crucial at this moment and has been for a long time. And one thing can I just can I add one thing though because I want to make sure that people understand as well as that it's not just VSEA. It's every labor union. It's every nonprofit. It's every state government regardless of their their unionized staff or not. It's management. It's the you know the people who are on the on the front lines. We all have work to do here. And so this was an opportunity to kind of illustrate this chance to be in critical conversation. Very good. Well Emma Mulvaney Stanek. Thank you for joining us. It's been a lovely conversation. You're running unopposed. So I hope you come back. Yes I would love to. Thanks so much for the time. Thank you for this very special episode of all things and LGBTQ or interview show. This is another of our first time LGBTQ plus candidates interview. And today we are interviewing the candidate for the house seat. Windsor 4 1 Barnard Pomfret. White Quiche and West Hartford. Thank you. And that smiling face you just saw is Heather super not who we are welcoming to our show. Welcome Heather. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. Okay so reading your bio it said that you had grown up in Vermont. Went to Smith College in Northampton where you majored in government and worked on some social and racial justice issues on committees within the college then moved to San Francisco to really work on those racial and social justice issues. But then you found your way back to Vermont and to farming. Could you share with us how that happened because it's not the typical course. It is it is definitely not the typical course. So after graduation I I did move out to San Francisco and I was out there for two years and honestly the San Francisco felt like it was going to be the most inspiring community in terms of tackling and dismantling larger oppressive issues. And I knew that at first I wasn't ready to move home to Vermont because I didn't think that I would be exposed to the wide array of social justice issues that I would be faced with in a more diverse and urban environment. So you know the two years that I spend actually out in California were very invested in working with with the Women's Economic Agenda Project which worked to essentially help women connect to unions and make sure they understood their rights within the workplace. And you know that was volunteer work. That was very linked to what I had space for outside. I got very sucked in unfortunately into the tech community in California and that was where I was actually making my money and that felt like a very inauthentic way to spend my time. So I started farming just south of the city and to me farming felt like one of the most intersectional ways to approach social justice. You mean you have to consider like land affordability, access to healthy food in terms of who can pay for organic food. And that was just something that had never really struck me and especially living in an in an urban environment you recognize like who even has grocery stores present out in San Francisco what neighborhoods are left out of that. So that I felt gave me such tools in building blocks and I knew that you know Vermont is such this agricultural bastion and I knew that I had to bring all those tools back home as a young Vermonter and start farming here. And I realized that government isn't that far removed from agriculture especially in Vermont. It's what is so essential to our economy and so essential to the working landscape in the people here. So I think that it's really more of just like a beautiful segue and transition in which has served me well so far when I'm expressing what it means to be a farmer in this state and how that is very relatable to our government and to social justice. Now what is interesting you you're making your reference to Vermont and Vermont's support of agricultural economy and development but when you are elected you will be one of the few actual farmers who will be serving in the legislature. So how has your experience with farming influenced and informed what you see as being your legislative priorities? And and if you would like you know talk a bit about what your priorities are why Heather for Vermont is the right person at this point in time? Yeah absolutely so I think that first and foremost my priorities are affordability and within that sect affordability means affordable housing, affordable education and affordable health care. And I think that you know agriculture isn't that separate from those factions. You need access to healthy food in order to have healthy communities. We need if we're going to preserve our educational system to make sure that our state colleges are incorporating agricultural practices that are going to actually continue on a more sustainable trend you know. It's climate change. It's things that we should be focusing on in school anyway. And then when it comes to affordable housing so many old farms in Vermont are not able to make it. And you find that old farmers are having to sell their land, they're having to sell their properties. And you have folks who are coming from out of state and have the revenue and the finances to be able to afford those lands. And I think that that is such a travesty for a younger generation of farmers who want access to that land, who want to revitalize communities, who want to put that energy into breathing some life back into a situation that you know probably was an old dairy farm. And so when I think about how I am going to shift that mindset in the legislature, I think you know we focus so heavily on big dairy in Vermont as being what our state is in terms of agriculture. But very rarely do we focus on regenerative agriculture in the vegetable farms that are in existence. And that's the kind of farmer I am. So I think that making sure those who are put on the ag committee actually within the house because I don't think there's any farmers on the actual ag committee right now. And making sure that it's this representation of diverse voices of what agriculture is and what we have to offer to the state is huge and so important because I don't think a lot of people think about how interconnected our farms really are to the bigger issues in Vermont. So looking at respecting the land opens you up to more of an inclusionary vision. What does it take to ensure that we are preserving what we have, that we are ensuring that there is room for growth and that we are inviting everyone to participate in this process. So one of the other pieces that is on your website and on your platform is about minimum wage and livable wage. Could you talk a little bit about that and your sense of is there a difference between a minimum wage and a livable wage? Yeah absolutely and you know I think I'm also a little bit skewed having them down in San Francisco whose minimum wage has been 15 for years now. And I think that when you're recognizing what it means to have a livable wage you are looking at this entire holistic perspective of what a human being needs to actually make it in Vermont. And Vermont is one of the most expensive states in terms of taxes, in terms of the amount of money we have to spend on transportation since we don't have access to public transportation in terms of our heating costs because it is cold. And so when somebody is being paid $9, $10, $11 and you're looking at that as a minimum wage as something that that is the base level that to me is not livable. So to me livable means assessing all of the factors that go into making it in state and making sure that that person is not only able to just barely scrape by but has the means to actually live a life of dignity. And I think that's what's missing in the language when folks talk about a minimum wage. There's no dignity in a minimum wage today and that's what I think is problematic. All right thank you. And one of the other really strong aspects of your platform is about healthcare. So what are you seeing as the need for healthcare and what is it that you would support as a legislator? So I support universal healthcare. I think that healthcare is a human right. I think that everybody deserves to have equal access to healthcare and if COVID has eliminated or illuminated anything for folks it's that we need that access. We need to make sure that everybody has the resources in place to get the care that they need. I as a young farmer I don't have health insurance and that has been a continual stress you know and I recognize that Vermont is definitely a state that is a little bit better positioned than others in terms of affordability and helping those who don't have the financial means to get health insurance. But at the same time there are still challenges and I also think that you know if you go on to the healthcare site it's not the easiest thing to navigate and to figure out what you need. So it's like there's this two-part system of facing these challenges of actually understanding how to gain access to the resources that you need and then figuring out how to make sure everybody is on the same page about what they have access to and I think those would be the first things I would address with healthcare. And then additionally expanding the programs that Vermont already has in existence like Dr. Dinosaur for families of lower economic background and recognizing that more kids need to be on that, more families we need to broaden the scope of families we allow to be part of that because you know the financial burdens are only getting harder for families especially in a time where you know a lot of families are out of work right now they don't have access to childcare so they do need like that one section to be a little bit less cost prohibitive and to be a little bit more accessible. So in our last remaining minutes the Windsor 401 district is an open seat the incumbent choose not to run for re-election. What makes Heather the right choice at this point in time to represent that district? I think what's in that word is representation representation and I think folks need a representative that is alongside with them in the struggles of everyday life. I think oftentimes politicians are out of touch with what actual working families are experiencing in this state and I haven't grown up in rural Vermont and then left and then came back and I'm working with the land and I'm struggling financially and I'm doing my best to juggle running a campaign and running my farm. I think that that is a story that is so transferable and relatable to so many of our monitors who are just trying to make it and to me representation needs to be real and compassionate and that's what I want to bring to the legislature. I want folks to feel like the person that's up there for them is actually there for them and understands what they're going through and that's that what I hope to bring. So with that thank you for sharing this time with us good luck on the campaign and I look forward to seeing you if only on zoom for your inauguration in January. Thank you this has been so wonderful thank you for the space. Hi everybody I'd like to introduce Tiffany Blumlee and she is running for the house in Chittenden 6-5 correct and so I'd like everybody to meet her and get to know her better and so hi welcome to the show. Well thanks for having me. And you have an impressive resume if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up in Vermont and why you're running for office now. Sure. Well I lived in in Vermont for about 23 years. I've lived on the east coast largely since I was an adult but I grew up in the west. I've been a middle school and a high school history teacher and high school administrator. I worked at Outward Bound. My sister moved up here about 24 years ago and to and decided to open a bookstore. I thought I couldn't I saw thought at the time I thought Vermont what is Vermont. Vermont is like you have to run an in or you know a ski resort did people really have jobs there. So anyway I got to know Vermont through helping my sister set up this bookstore with her partner and and that led I mean I fell in love with Vermont and I fell in love not just with the physical beauty but I also fell in love with what I sensed was a sense of community. It's small and and the governor might be your next door neighbor and it seemed to me that there would be opportunities to participate in the life of of the state I was living in New York City at the time and was at Outward Bound. And so within a year here here I was and I have spent most of my time here in in Vermont either heading up Vermont works for women a nonprofit that serves women and girls to expand their horizons and help them find employment and careers that have a future and that pay well. Then I stayed there for 17 years and after after that period of time I was realizing that the context in which we were working wasn't changing a whole lot and I wanted to see if we could affect more systemic change and so founded with the Vermont women's fund the commission on women and Vermont works for women something called change the story which was an initiative focused on spearheading culture and systems change and so did that for five years you you asked me um so why why am I running I managed to avoid this for so many years I know because you know it's it's it's a little bit of a leap not much though but I mean you know like when you're doing community service and you're working with uh different organizations you know I guess it would be a normal job to kind of think well you know I've done this and now I can I can do more if I'm in a political position to do so change laws or try to you know forward your agenda in a different way. Well I I think that um I think that the legislature is is uh the body that I would have been most attracted to in the past and this district has been represented for uh decades by a couple of people who I think have done very good work um for um the state of Vermont Mary Sullivan and Joey Donovan and so and I wasn't uh in a I wasn't interested in challenging them uh I wasn't so hungry to get into politics or I I didn't have big uh uh issues with the the way that they were representing us and so it it was only when both legislators decided to retire this after this um session uh and a couple people reached out to me truly I'm not sure if they hadn't reached out to me I would have thought about running but I would I I guess when I actually gave myself 24 hours before responding to the question that they asked in their email would you think about I I realized that I saw in this moment an opportunity for change that I hadn't perceived in the two decades that I'd been working here COVID-19 and um racial justice efforts that have have kind of sprung um uh to the to our consciousness in the last six months have have cracked us open and made us way more open to challenging kind of basic assumptions that uh that we've had all along I have and I and others have been talking about child care for example as an economic driver yeah in large part because um you know it it that was the way to try to get people interested in child care you know talk about the needs of individual families that that will appeal to a certain audience but it's going to be narrower if you talk about it as a broader economic driver then but it never really caught on until way more of us um who never really had had to think much about our access to child care uh really had to scramble um when schools closed etc and uh the um you know a lot of that burden I think fell on women too oh yeah yeah absolutely yeah that yeah I mean the New York Times just published a piece on that um uh the other day about you know the impact of COVID on women well more women are leaving the workforce um and as a result because there's really no way to try to juggle um the responsibilities that families have because of the services that aren't available um in the way that they were pre-COVID so so but I also think that uh health care like wow we all of a sudden there's you know the the the holes in our health care system um were laid bare um the you know injustices in terms of how COVID you know who COVID was really affecting what communities were being um affected by by it um so I I see this time as a really interesting one and an opportunity to um perhaps ask bigger questions than we have ever asked before and to um push ourselves to not just nibble around the edges but to advance more um uh structural systemic um change and not overnight but uh but in ways that we have not kind of had the political fortitude to to do um uh you know as a as a population and um and so and I decided to that the particular experience I had um both um with issues like workforce development and criminal justice reform um the any approach that I have to solving problems um and engaging folks in in solving them um could could be very helpful right now um you know I'm not I don't have a a political career ahead of me in the sense that you know I'm not looking at this as a stepping stone to do that or that you know I I am looking to be helpful in a particular moment given my particular um temperament and um skill set and knowledge base and the and the um and and that that it excites me to participate in this new way and what about like I mean COVID has affected like a lot of our prisoners who were sent out of yeah state yeah that'd be something you would want to work on like not privatizing prisons uh and you know like a lot of people got really a lot of our um prisoners got really sick being in Mississippi and um I don't think they were brought home either as far as I can recall but not not to my knowledge I mean the the um Department of Corrections has signed a one-year extension of that contract um and I think that there's going to be enormous pressure on legislators to bring um those folks home it's not only a question of um uh wanting to ensure that they get the best care but it's also um you know proximity to family yeah I mean it's um how do you prepare for um coming back to community when you are in Mississippi you know uh how do you how do you meet with folks at the Department of Labor um and how do you get an ID that you then can use to with which you would apply for jobs um family from families too yes yes I mean it's it's so it's I just don't think that's a a um solution um and I think that there's a lot of political will now to to end that contract um at the at year's end and um but also to reimagine what this prison really for and there are when COVID struck uh the women's prison for example I think went down from 140 prisoners to uh maybe 70 um and and that and and those folks then were um uh supervised through community um services of probation and parole well we can do that and I it and it seems from my perspective and it's limited because I'm not involved in conversations with the Department of Corrections every day I um but at that shows us that we can reduce the population um in our prisons when motivated to do so and this and you know in this case it was public health concerns right so um but I think that there there are so many reasons to try to keep people out of prison and we have as the ACLU has done a great job in laying bare um we have way too many people in prison who are actually uh awaiting housing um they serve past their minimum sentence simply because they don't have a place to go that's been approved by the Department of Corrections um once they leave uh it seems so unfair well and there are a lot of people who um can't post bail and they are awaiting trial and uh for nonviolent crimes and but because they can't post bail they are in prison I don't think prison should serve that purpose I think we can it it it disrupts lives in huge ways um well the bail system seems to be something that needs to be done away well right it really hurts people who are in financial stress already that's right you're absolutely right uh and and I think that there are I mean there clearly there is I mean Sarah George has maybe started a trend um here in Vermont that will advance to other counties um I think that the legislature can take that up um as a statewide issue um I think that we need to look at you know uh the um our our our sentencing laws that require judges to impose sentences um for certain crimes um I think that that uh I think that there are I think that that if we rely less on prisons we we must invest in community support and that I I think that the challenges I I I used to say when I was at Vermont works for women and we ran a lot of programs in the women's prison or prisons because they moved them around um from one prison to the next um every couple of years for for some time that I would challenge folks to try to uh try to walk in the shoes of somebody who's just been released from prison all of the people that they have to meet with um the you know in different agencies located in different places without a car um there are uh you know in the middle of the day while they're actually also supposed to be you know trying to find a job so there are there are ways in which the community supports that we have available just not they're not enough and particularly as they relate to um uh transitional housing for people who have been perhaps um in um treatment for substance abuse or coming out of prison uh and in terms of employment support that's a uh that's a huge issue for the women with whom we worked who often didn't have much in the way of unemployment history and obviously prison sentence then is uh makes it much harder for you to get a job and maybe you have children too oh well and and trying to get custody of those children is um uh it is is I mean it can consume all of your time um and um and anyway I there are so many pieces of this system that don't necessarily talk to one another though and so um those the conversations that we're having are siloed um not always but I think that um we can do better almost in any arena that you pick if if we could bring folks uh representing kind of the different pieces of the system together in one place to talk about first what we are each seeing you know like I see this piece of the elephant but I don't see the whole elephant so to get a picture of the whole elephant we need we need these multiple perspectives in a room and then secondly to imagine okay well what can we each bring uh to this this problem that is a part of the solution I mean nobody's gonna be able to address all of it and so where can we add value um and what does that mean that maybe we give up doing um our because we don't do it as well or we don't do it as efficiently uh or um um we don't operate state well I you know whatever but I think that that for a small state I think a lot of the issues that we face um could be better addressed if we could step back from speaking from our individual platforms and take the time to talk with one another about our our our differing our similar experiences and perspectives figure out where where we can together um uh help help us make progress so and you know the the legislative process can be so slow too you know it's like you know you think something that should be done you know um and it doesn't get he doesn't get done right away it's a long long process and that's why I think it takes a lot of experience yeah you know I I mean I I nothing changed I mean as an advocate I just had to get used to the idea that things would take time to change and some things some things change more quickly than you imagine just because they uh they an incident sparks a reaction um and a new awareness or you know uh somebody somebody makes an argument that just somehow uh lays bare a reality that people couldn't take in um uh a film comes out you know um uh and so yeah it's like you know the Floyd case it just brought so much to the surface very quickly I don't know how to change we're gonna have quickly but I think the consciousness it changed a lot of consciousness at this particular time in place so you know yeah and and we can be frustrated by that um or recognize that that's kind of the nature of um human beings um you know we uh I think that COVID uh I mean it slowed us down yeah right so we know we've been able to notice more um and uh and I think that COVID has something to do with the fact that we were more receptive to the message that um BIPOC community certainly has been trying to get out for you know hundreds of centuries um that that um uh and and the fact that a lot of the best sellers on the New York Times best-seller list are our books that are that look at white privilege and um fragility and race I mean wow that's that that to me is that's a great sign of progress I know that cast is on my list of things to read uh huh yeah yeah yes yes well I've got about a list of five five books and I have at least 20 on my nightstand and right I will end up reading none of them because I um I can't I right now I I find myself kind of addicted to the news because it's such an extraordinary time um not sure that that's healthy but here we are but here we are okay we have a a couple of more minutes um would you like to tell the audience anything about you that might that they might not know or you know might go ahead sure yeah well so I think that um one of the most I've loved I've I've loved everything that I've done I've been very lucky to have loved every job I've had um I think that one of one of my favorites was teaching and um for 10 years I worked as a teacher in one way or another and and that work is largely with individuals and that's that's what really motivates me and when you work with people you begin to see patterns and systems the way that systems interact with those people with whom you are that that you're concerned about um and adore and and then all of a sudden poof you end up becoming an advocate because because you you want the world to work differently for those people and so uh I have spent a long time as an advocate and I I think that um that right now we are asking kind of fundamental questions about who is essential to the economy and what should they be paid and should they have benefits you know and and we've now learned that childcare paid family leave healthcare are critical uh to um supporting the fabric of of society so what does that compel us to do if we know this what must we do then to make sure that more of us um are protected and have access to those services broadband clearly an equity issue um and and then what's the appropriate role of police in prisons um as a teacher my job was to I think help young people learn to ask good questions and that's really how I view the role of a legislator in that we have to invite conversations with uh with one another with field experts with people with lived experience and um and the questions become more important I think than the answers because the more you learn the more nuanced those answers will become and uh and and legislation is iterative it evolves over time and so them so we need to continually ask more questions than we you know uh espouse answers um for for things and that is I think what excites me the most and about being a legislator and prompted me to think perhaps I could be helpful well thank you very much and if you're if the audience isn't chitinin six five make sure to vote um and good luck and after you when you win we'll have you again hopefully and we'll talk so all right yeah and thank you very much for being on the show yes thank you very much for inviting me thank you for joining us we'll see you in two weeks but in the meantime resist