 Good morning. Good morning. Just realized my audio was off. So I don't know I felt hurt me. Good morning. Again. Hello everyone. Hello. Give it a couple more minutes. See who else will join. Good morning, Victor. Hello Taylor. Good morning. All right. Why is there such a large gap? Oh, maybe it's comments that we never closed. Okay. That's probably nice. I'm not gonna go through the whole thing. So cloud native telco day. And. Is. Happening was approved and see if P's are currently open. We're going to get folks in. We're also still looking for sponsorships. For that, which will help with various activities there as well as ongoing. For the event. So if you don't know anyone. Be interested. There's stuff like badges and the lunch as well besides the overall sponsors. You can come in at different levels. You can come in at different levels. Which will be highlighted. The. Some of the levels support having. An entry entries for. Someone that would even get access to. The higher levels, I think give access to all of Kubecon. So. So keep in mind. Especially if someone's already gonna. Planning on sending folks to Kubecon. Yeah. A lot of different events. We're trying to think about. The talcum events where there'd be more overlap with what we're trying to do. Here and. Listing some of those. If there is any that y'all know about. And please add them so we can check them out. Does it mean that everyone's going to attend everything? If we know of it and there's enough interest. Maybe that'll be an area that where we can focus. Anyone have anything right now. Well, I. Even though you mentioned the open source summit in North America, I guess. The open source summit. Europe. It's also publishing the website. I just need to double check when are the dates. But yeah, it is there. All right. Are you attending yourself or know that. Anything from, I guess, you're. The group that's more talcum focused anybody. Go into any other events. But you think maybe relevant. For us to take a look at. Well, thank you. No, my case. I still need to start with my manager and see. If they approve. Any. Travel. You're not approved for any travel. No, yet. If you're waiting. You're doing the planning. Doing these days. Do you have any plans to turn on one of these? I mean, besides the. Cube. Con. You know, click. We want to. Meet with as much folks and try to. Get people engaged in conversations started for the EU. We think that there's a lot of that. The. The folks that we've been working with that are involved with, say, Silva and other stuff. That I think the EU side is going to be. At least with some travel restrictions and stuff that. You know, you know, you know, like you're dealing with. That we've seen. And they weren't able to come to the North America. I think the EU is going to be a big deal. Connected America would be an interesting one. It seems like. The type of. Work there, though, as. Longer term related to like government stuff. There's all the regulations and everything else. I think there's overlap there. We would approach it, but I. I think some of the stuff that we do here with regard to security and other stuff that can tie in with compliance. Could go into conversations there. MWC Barcelona would be great. But that one's a harder one to deal with. And. This big five, I think would be another one. That we're seriously considering. There's so many events, you know, you got to decide if, if you're not going to all of them, you know, trying to cut in which we're not, then cut it down. So any insight into those. There seems to be. From the conversations that we've had with folks, including people that have. Contributed into the. You know, the different community efforts like the working group and the test suite and stuff. MWC Barcelona seems to be where. More of them are going to. Be for sure. Versus MWC America. America's is a maybe for some. But I think for us, the Americas is more likely. To be a place to be able to plan out to. What are your thoughts about the open source summit and the. Telco. Cloud native stuff. Is it. While to be trying to go to like the EU. Open source EU. Well, in terms of like attendance. I mean, I'm not going to be in the option to be virtual. So. I mean. Having a hybrid. Conferences. So. Yeah, I don't know if people are going to. Try to. Review some, some costs and just attend virtually. The. The only open source summit I have attended in person without nothing. It was good, but I didn't see too much content about. Telcos. All these stuff related. So hopefully that change. Or. We can have our own track or things like that. I don't know if the presentations were great, but. I didn't see. I had to connect all the technologies with. Which how could I. How to cure it now, how can we use them. That's. That's my point of view about open source summit in general. Recording the cloud native telco day. I think it's great. Have the space. I don't know if. I know that. Joe better mentioned a couple. Things in. To their account about. Trace station fees and all these things and. I don't know if. The CNGF has. Change or do something regarding that. They're going to close particular. Precision fees. So. Yeah, yeah. I'm I would like to see more like. More than half of the day, but. The things are. But they were dead. The way they are. So. I'm also trying to encourage. The. Nephew community to purchase them in. In those events. I guess. It would be. Awesome to see more. Nephew related stuff. I'm trying to understand a little more. But actually bringing into the equation. What about having. And I may be. For getting something that's already moving forward, but. Have we. Gotten an FAO. Person to post a CFP for cloud native token day. Yeah, that would be. That would be great. Like that. Because there's a lot of people who are asking for more. More about. More about Matthew. So. That's why I'm trying to, I mean, I'm. Pushing car there. To speak, to speak more about Matthew. I think that they are going to do it because they're looking for. Spaces where they can announce and. Share what they have been doing. So. I'm pretty sure that. Someone is going to submit something soon. Because even they consider the. NWC. In Barcelona. As a way to meet up. The community. But unfortunately. The. Or like the number of responses that they caught it. Was low. So. It seems like. Keep going could be. The best way to. Coming out of the community. I'd like to think about maybe discuss. Something. Structured. Talk or event that brings folks together. We did have years together was. A CNF working group talk where. We ended up with quite a few people. And it was like a half day or. Multi hour type of thing. Maybe because it wasn't. I don't know. One of them went pretty well where there's a lot of discussions. And one of them ended up. Even though it was supposed to be more structured. I think part of it, we had folks running over time. Ideally the cloud. They would be a place where we can get. And. Silva. Other folks all in. And I think. There was someone that was interested in. Submitting for a silver talk. At cloud native. And. I think I heard that something last week, maybe. So ideally we could have that, but. Maybe. I think we need. Some type of discussion time where. Make sure that people can get together outside of just the talks. And they know that. There's going to be a time for that. The. It seems like there needs to be a focus to have the conversation. And it doesn't end up. Either people that don't know what it's going to be about. It's not going to go all over. But some, a, some focus point that everyone's interested in. The. Networking. SIG. Multi-network. Those sessions at Kubecon. I think they went pretty well as far as bringing in. A lot of folks that. Weren't normally part of just the SIG multi-network. And if we could. Think about some topic that might be of interest to. You know, some of the groups that we'd like to collaborate with. And if I owe and silver and whoever else that, you know, if we can find something. Here's, we're going to have a discussion about this and how it can impact or whatever. I think that could be positive and maybe with a goal of, you know, figure out what is the goal? What are we going to take from this and, you know, go and do. And Victor, that could be something, at least if we're going to drive it from the. The working groups side, then maybe something that we would take on with Tom to think about. But if it's something that's not specific to the working group, then it's. Related to certification or the. Test suite or. Whatever else, as long as it's. Something that we consider in scope. But I'm, I'm up for looking at something like that. And. And I'm not saying. Busy work or whatever. I'm really like to think of. And none of us really have time for that. What I'd like to think about what. Maybe brainstorm some ideas and then what. Goal. What is the target thing that would have about real value for the different communities or the. Members specifically that are involved in those communities. Vendor is going to say, Hey, this is an outcome as important to me. So I want to be involved in the conversation. Service provider, same thing. One of the topics. Have been. Lastly discussed about the, the national communities about the. The operators. He has provided a lot of material and. Chair. He's one of you and say that so. Not sure if that could be an also. A good start to point. I mean. Operators are great. Like. The. The argument that is mentioned is like, yeah. Operators are great for certain cases, but. In order to. To make them more accessible or like. To implement or. You seem to implement in a correct way. It's very hard. So he's proposing new ideas. Different ways to implement all of them. Operator framework just like. Not. Using another out of the standard. So. I don't know if that could be also a. Good topic or things to bring as a point to discuss like. Like how they. The telecom operators has been approaching the. Developable. These are two next operators. They have. Practices or. Ways or things like that. I think. It could be also quite interesting. Because it also is like an essential part of a nephew. Nephew relies too much on. Those operators. One of the ways to. Implement enough. So. Any other thoughts. Put out now and again, Victor, if you're up for it, I'd like to talk more. About this and. Kind of look. I think we need to have some time also to just plan. What are we doing. In the working group for the year, but. Does anyone else have any input thoughts. All over. Yeah. We were having a little bit quiet. Yeah. Yeah, sorry guys. I don't have anything at the moment. Nothing to add. Are we going to have any. Anika. Presence. For a cloud night of Chaka day. Good question. Let me do this. I'll take that as an action. I can bring that up. We meet on Monday. So unfortunate. I'm not going to do that next. Next week, next meeting, but. I can ask about. There's anyone. Going to be. Part of that. I unfortunately will not be joining the, this. We do have. Some travel. Restrictions. All right. And. What about any of the other events, Oliver? Like connected America. I feel like that might be north central. I can't remember. Big five is going to be in Austin. That's all the way out in May, but thinking about it ahead of time is easier with. The travel of restrictions. Yeah. I mean, essentially, I, you know, I don't know. It's all the semantics, but I mean, we don't have a hard. We don't have a hard travel restriction. It's more where, you know, we're making choices, right? So. Yeah. So I, I mean, I think, for example. Let's see here. It's a little bit further down there, maybe on the list, but. If there is a cloud native. For North America, then, you know, that is most likely going to. You'll see at least myself there, but. I mean, matrix is definitely going to be at mobile world congress, but I will not be there. Sounds good. Well, we'll figure it out as we're going along. There's a lot of unknowns. Yeah, the economy actually goes. A lot of fixture looking at it as a big downturn. Yeah. No, I think in light of the last week or two of all the. What we've seen with Microsoft and Amazon and Salesforce and on and on. Kind of put a little bit of a. A more negative. Tell them to do that to the market for sure. Take a look at these poor quest. Well, this one is. Very old. So only one. Am I in the right one? Yeah. Okay, working group. Did the, okay, it was resolved the changes and they just got approved. And apparently I'm not. Yeah. So we just need another approval. Renating. Yeah, I just buy a new format, which is more readable, I guess. So you, if you go through the file changes, you can see your. Clicking the file viewer. I'm trying. I don't see it's, it says it's loading. I don't know if I'll see that bar, but it's just going, going, going. See if I can. It's just from your side. I don't know if it's actually going to show when this bar finishes or not. Since it hasn't done anything. No, they're already just an animation. I'm still on the main page. Let's see. Okay. Theoretically, it should be showing. I don't see anything. I'm going to reload. It is like a median. All right. Go ahead. I think if you. With a way to display that as a human or evil way. Oh, sure. I've looked at so many of those diffs. I was going to think about it. Let's see. It's interesting. It's not giving the option for the. Oh, yeah, do you have to click in the view file? Yeah. The file. That is. The proposal I guess. Oh, okay. This is a new template type. That looks pretty nice. I like it. I didn't know that you can do that. Well, it looks good to me. I'm going to go ahead and merge it. Where does that go? Well, I guess that's just the app template. Okay. I think that the only issue has been discussed. What's about the. One. One process for. For container. Which Gregory give us. Interesting feedback. I don't know you want to. Where is that? Is that a good issue or something else? No, it is an issue. Should be. Oh, here we go. Yeah, that one. Well, it'd be nice if maybe Gerga can join us. In the future. I know that Watson said that he was. Going to. I don't know what to be speaking with. I guess they had. Had some messages and so maybe just having a call to dig in. Further. I know that. There was a microservice. Paper, cloud native microservices. Related for telco stuff. And I think general cloud native usage. That's. Either. Or going out. I don't know if that was published or is it being published the microservice paper. So I know he was planning on talking and there would probably be content to put in here over that, but. Do you, do you want to talk about this at all right now or hold off until Gerga or someone can join us. You're talking to me. Yeah. Well, I just want to mention like. I tried to investigate even more. The reason behind that. I found interesting. Information. So. Obviously there is like, like. Because I regret what's mentioned about. Performance impact on. Having. Some scenarios where you can be affected. Having. Just one. Brust per container. And he's using certain resources. So. So I invested a little bit more about that and they know. I couldn't find any, any points actually. In some places I found like. They were. Not. Proceeding to have multiple processes. The container. So. The only strong argument to. To run multiple processes were using a process manager inside of the container. So, and there are multiple tools to achieve that. So. So I don't know if. We should have. Change. Proposal like, like, say, well. Obviously it's much better to. To deal with a single process in terms like a log trace. Tracing logs and. You would see more one thing. Actually, the principle is. It's name it as a. One single concern. Like. The only thing that you have to concerning one in the container is one single process and that's easier to manage and troubleshoot and everything. But if for some reason you have to do it. You have to make sure that the. The entry point is pointing to a. A container manager. Who can properly propagate the signals. To the container on time. So, so that was my motivation. So. But I couldn't find any other. You should ban this. Like performance or. You're using resources or anything like that. Yeah, I think a lot of this comes down to. Well, the first thing is we're talking about. Best practices and those are communicating. What's. Recommended. As the default or general, you know, in general, what do we think that. People should do. And with. Experience community, everything else saying here is what we think is. The guideline for that. Is not that there's other cases. And I think. That distinction is important. We have a lot of. Times where. The conversations can get stuck on. The mind minority of cases, edge cases and everything else versus what are best practices, the default. So this is. Related to micro service best practices. And splitting up. The behavior where you're saying, do one thing and do it well. And, you know, Unix. Which is related to micro services and. That concept is. Very very way older than open stack and Kubernetes and. Virtualization unless you go back and start thinking of like. Actually where, where did virtualization come from and the, the VMs and stuff on hardware. And even there. You actually did a lot of separation of what you're doing for control that just tied into physical. Parts of the system. So anyways, if we think that Unix concept and what I think. Was a big driver and what the micro services are and splitting up. That's what this is really talking about. So when you're looking at using supervisors and stuff, yes, you can do, do it and you can start having multiple process and doing it well, but. You're not having separation of. That behavior and. What, what each service is going to. Maintain and not that it's not that you turn out performance is required or whatever else it may be. That says, well, in this case we need it, but it's the in general case. You can use a supervisor and still have one process type. Actually, actually the second paragraph. It's talking a little bit about that case. I mean, I found in that. In the link. Yeah, if you click in the trivial. Yeah, that link. It is given an example of one up, which is having just. It was content writer, but it was not propagating the, the signaling. So it's a very simplistic Python app, which is. The signaling. No, it seems like one that they put it inside of a container is missing the signaling. So. So then it's not handling. Properly. No, it's properly said. One of the things that's. Occuring right now as far as in the test suite, which. And related to. Write ups for, I think, more in-depth technical papers. Is related to this around handling different signals and stuff. And we're looking at being able to test the individual ones. I don't know if those would make it specifically into like a virtual best practices, but definitely part of. The whole tool set where you say. We. Don't. Have a single process type, but all of our processes that are running. Handle signals correctly, or we do have a. Single process type and we handle this correctly, but not these others. So there's a larger suite of things that we're checking for. And this will definitely be part of it. Sig term and sig kill specifically. Yeah, so. Probably. It's not part of the proposal. I mean, the proposal is. More clearly like one single process per container. But yeah, this is probably. Maybe as another. That's practice. Yeah. How do you determine if a. Container is actually alive. Versus the zombie container. And I think. That would be related to another effort that's happening around. Some more in depth. Testing. One of the efforts is around. Using. The. Lib P cap and reap doing replays of network traffic. And ideally from, from the test suite side, there will be some way of. There'll be a. A hook and some way of dropping in traffic. To send a little bit more. Advanced traffic into a CNF. And then. The level of the. The level of the liveliness and readiness. Potentially could have a CNF respond to live liveliness and readiness. Test that. Make it seem that the CNF is okay. At least to the. Kubernetes. For not throwing the container away and starting a new one. And, and yet the CNF is actually. The CNF is not a zombie or something because of signals. Handling improperly. So having a way to run real traffic. Some subset. Has been something asked for for a long time. And that's something that's been looked at right now. That could help there. And then, of course, writing up a. A practice around that sounds good. But. Where we should keep it. On the write ups for best practices, how fine grained we should be. Like actually having best practices for. Yeah. You know, almost like this. Other than Docker. Best practices for. Yeah. Handling. Versus having something around. That container should have one process type. I mean that. This is related for sure. And, you know. Yeah, it sounds like a best practice for best practice. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of 12 factor apps and. Where things are, you know, There's a lot of things under this. But like this one. This is a pretty. It's, it's not as detailed out like this isn't talking about signal handling. But there's going to be. When we're talking about the processes and running these as stateless. Okay. Share nothing. Okay, that's really the only thing they're doing. Here on this. And also give that. I was just saying that, yeah, that also opens the possibility to run. One or more things. From the beginning, it's not limited single one process. Yeah. I'm more of looking what are they. What are the best practices that actually communicate? There's a bunch of other ones. When I look at this, I know that to implement. What they're saying here, there's a lot of little practices that you're going to have to implement and they're not going to write out every single one. I'm thinking about what do we want in scope for the working group. Right now we keep breaking things into smaller pieces. And I think it's good for the overall discussion, but at some point. Our current goal has been to get this thing filled out. And if we have, I definitely think we're going to have more than this. If, you know, we keep going down the path we're doing. But we're not trying to have. You should, you know, your PI, you know, PID one process. And we're trying to figure out what level do we go to with something like this. And I think what you have here would be a good one, but just trying to see where we would collapse it. And it would be part of. These 20 attributes and we're going to write a best practice about each one of those attributes. And so we end up with a thousand different best practices, which is unmanageable, of course, realistically for us to actually do. But I'm trying to figure out what level do we go to with this. Maybe one proposal that goes forward. Thanks for the, the link there. Lucina. It's whenever that's ready for. Public consumption will be published there, but we'll bring that over as well. All right. We're, I think we're close enough to time. Does anybody have anything else? We can stop here and then. We come back. I'm okay with that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You too. Bye bye.