 So, I think one of our big crises here is how do we move past a market model or a model of technology innovation and distribution that is based purely on profit access to one that is about innovation, some competition, some profit, but also about moral, ethical, just behavior, about making the connections, about seeing the other, not as our competitor always, sometimes, but not always, seemed the other as a partner, worthy of just treatment. I think that's interesting, even in a market sense, because people tend to think of global markets as largely and necessarily sites of competition. They can also be sites of sharing, they can also be sites of exchange, exchange doesn't mean always the maximization of profit. We invented that, we can mess with it. A stake that is not just profit-driven, right? I mean, health should be delivered for health, health should be delivered for money. Think about what we have as a for-profit, so hospitals, schools, and prisons. How can those things be for a profit or military? The whole idea of a prison for profit, the idea that how do you make profit of a prison, you have more people in prison, that's going to drive a system that incarcerates more people. A healthcare system where profit is the, I'm not saying you shouldn't do research and make money off of new drugs and charge people for access to healthcare, but the goal should be to make people healthy, make their lives better rather than to make extra money. I think doctors should be paid well, I think teachers should be paid well. How do you develop radically unequal systems? You do it by other people. You do it by making someone less than. You do it by having a system where there are the haves and the have-nots, and the only way we as humans can live with that is if we differentiate ourselves, thinking that the others that have less have less because they're worthless. Our political and historical economic structures over the last couple millennia clearly show that this is a pattern in our process, especially over the last 500, 300 years. If you look at older men in the United States, you know what the top indicator of longevity and happiness is? It's not wealth, it's not even what they did as a job in their life. It might not even be whether or not they had a family. It's how many individuals late in life they identify as friends. It's how robust their social network is. Someone's opinion may contradict yours. Where's my friend Alan? It's all about your perspective. Who are we and what is the nature of this reality? Five, four, three, two, one. What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. We're on site at the American Anthropological Association's annual meeting in Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada for our second partnership with them. We are now going to be speaking with, for our second time on the show, Dr. Augustine Fuentes. Hi, Augustine. Hey. I'm really happy to be here. I'm so pumped for this conversation. We've had a year of going off and augmenting our world views and now coming back. I want to start with this. Are we really all one? Yes. Right? So, this is one of those big questions that I don't think we think about enough. What do we mean by that? Are we all one? There's a lot of people who say, oh, there's all this big connection. What have you. Just let it float out there. So, the floating out there, the being connected, that's actually really important, but let me come back to that. Why don't we just ask the biological question? Are we all one? Yep. We are. All human beings share 99.9% of all their DNA. So everything, when you spin a tube and send it off to 23andMe and they tell you your background, that's .01% of your DNA that varies. Everything else you share in common with everyone else on the planet. And so this idea that biologically humans look a little different, height, weight, skin color, hair type, that's really, really minor. We are one species. We're not only one species, but all 7.5 billion humans on the planet are more biologically similar to one another than our whitetail deer in North Carolina and whitetail deer in Nebraska. Humans are one. What does this mean? Right? There's really a lot that's not a lot of biological diversity. It does mean that we as a species are really tightly knit and yet we're spread all over the planet doing all sorts of incredible things. That's what's amazing. In what ways are we one beyond just the biology and how we live with each other and how we deal with the world? I think it's a good question and it's worth reminding ourselves that we are one. Is it then that the most upstream issue that our society faces, that we forget that we're all one, that we experience feelings of separation rather than interconnectedness? On two levels, that's exactly a huge problem. One level is incredible inequality. Today on the planet, we have inequality that humans have never experienced. It's extreme. What was the latest data I saw? There are three men, three guys in the United States who own 47% of the wealth. That's a problem. There's a reality of inequality, material, social, structural inequality. Let's put that aside for a moment because that's historical, political, economic. The thing about isolation or feeling of separation, this psychological sense that you're alone, that's really dangerous because what we are as primates and as humans are social beings and the ability to be with one another is what we do. That's what made us human in many ways. This contemporary landscape where people feel isolated alone without connections, without friends, isolated from their family, that's really serious and we don't pay enough attention to that because that is how you mess up a human. Any primate. Have you created crazy primate? Isolate them. Have you created crazy human? Isolate them. We are doing a good job of that in our contemporary society of making people feel isolated. That's dangerous. The more that we feel separated, the more we see the downstream issues of mental health. Think about this. This is not to say that people aren't different and have different kinds of social relationships. We do. We vary a lot. There's a lot of ways in which we interact. We're introverts, extroverts, all of that. It's what you just pointed out. This idea of increasing sense of not belonging, of not connecting with others. We see a lot of those issues here in this country today and downstream, it's not just mental illness, but it's sort of a loss of the connection to other humans. Once you lose that connection, really, really bad things can happen. We need to spend a lot more time thinking about that. Let's also touch on the loss of feelings of connection to other humans and also the loss of the connection to the just complete interconnectedness of reality in general. Because the breath that I breathe in comes from phytoplankton and trees. The bite of the apple that I take comes from the power of the sun. There's no separation. That being there in the first days of the child being cast on through that, and indigeneity actually has a good amount of these principles that are rooted. But modernity in many ways does not. Being some sort of an interesting union, potentially, of these two hit us with some thoughts. Here's the thing. We have to be very careful about thinking, oh, there's some better way to be human. The way we're being human is the way we are human. There are better ways we can do it, but we can't always look to the past or other societies. One thing we have to do is recognize what you just said. The entire ecosystem, I mean the planetary ecosystem, is a system. It's interconnected and it's constantly cycling through. I think we have to remember as humans, we often forget that we're part of the system. No matter how great we think we are, no matter how powerful we think we are, we're going to die and degrade. But that death and degradation is part of the biological processes, the systemic movement of things through other things. You talked about eating the apple, just think of what's in that apple and where it came from and the tree and the growth and coming through the body and going out of our body. You can get caught up in sort of the incredible-ness of this, and I think it's worth doing that every now and then. But then also what's for me really important is to recognize that we're part of the ecosystem and recognize our moral and ethical obligations to the rest of the ecosystem. Once we recognize we're part of it, we can't go around destroying or screwing over the rest of it. It doesn't work that way. When you have a system, by definition, the system is working together, connecting, moving through one another, through a wrench in that, trash one part of the system and you get a cascade effect across the board. That's what we're seeing today. I mean humans- The hubris of one species. Exactly. We're really good at messing with the world to work better for us, right? And that's worked for us for a long time and it still is. The problem is we're messing with the world at a rate and an intensity and with a frequency and power that we've never experienced before. There are 7.5 billion human beings on the planet all messing with stuff. There's some interesting aspects to this where you can view other species like chickens, pigs and cows that we've populated on the planet with a big hockey stick and then we're inflicting death upon their consciousness for food when now in the next couple of decades we hope to grow clean meat and bioreactors, which is a very interesting solution, indistinguishable, which is very interesting. And then you have other things like you talk about the interconnectedness of tinkering all eight or so billion of us. We also dig up a lot of things from the ground, energy, fossil fuels, but also all of the different materials that go into these incredible devices that we then assemble. So this is again, and this is one of the things that just hits us upside the head and hits complexity because I said 7.5 billion, 8 billion humans all taking stuff, doing stuff, but we're not all doing it equally. Some are doing it a lot more than others. So the digging of stuff up. So here in the United States we dig up stuff, bring it to us and use it and exploit it in ways that are much more intensive than many other people around the world. So that's interesting. So there's an inequality in who's consuming and how they're consuming and where they're also getting that consumption from. So it's not like all humans are doing the same kind of trashing of the landscape. This is the classic of power law. So you have a 5% of the population in the U.S. consuming 25% of the global energy, stuff like this. Or 50% of the population when you buy that cup of coffee, 50% of the planet makes less than that cup of coffee cost per day. That kind of stuff. Back to the we are all one. We've got to remember that if we are all connected and what we do as a species is work together and socially collaborate and whatever, we've put ourselves in a position that really challenges our capacity to get along. So I think this inequalities, which we started with, that really undergirds a lot of the trauma that we are going through and that we're delivering to the earth. Yeah. This is interesting. So this root word, inequality. I like this. So if we stay with this notion of how could it be that three people have 47% of the wealth and 50% of all new wealth or more goes to just the 1% of people, how do as you make these beautiful emerging markets of technology that are coming and democratizing things, making things better, all this type of stuff, how do you make it so that they're driven by ethics, philosophy, morals? How do we distribute the fruits across the world, these types of things? And also, how do we view, and this is an interesting question for you, how do we view this quote-unquote other as actually ourselves? Right. Right. Right. So, I mean, there's so much right there, but there are two things, maybe three things that jump out at me. The first one is the first part of your question. We have this incredible democratizing technologies, right? This incredible ability to disseminate power, knowledge, access. But we're not doing it extremely well, right? Why not? Part of it is, and this is a bias that I have, but I think it is borne out by data, part of it is we're committed to this notion of a reality of a neoliberal capitalist system. That is the idea that profit has to drive, that without a profitable capitalist competitive market we don't have innovation, we don't have this incredible discovery and creativity. That's not true. We don't only need competitive markets to deliver goods, to ratchet up technologies, to make life livable. We invented that. It's not in nature. It doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means it's not the only way to do things. We know this. So, I think one of our big crises here is how do we move past a market model or model of technology innovation and distribution that is based purely on profit access to one that is about innovation, some competition, some profit, but also about moral, ethical, just behavior, about making the connections, about seeing the other, not as our competitor always, sometimes, but not always, seeing the other as a partner, worthy of just treatment. I think that's interesting even in a market sense, because people tend to think of global markets as largely and necessarily sites of competition. They can also be sites of sharing. They can also be sites of exchange. Exchange doesn't mean always the maximization of profit. We invented that. We can mess with it. What did we do in the early days of creating and tinkering? There was no intellectual property and wanting to, if I wanted to bring it to other people, it was almost more about being and playing and experiencing together. This is probably also something really important to talk to you about, just that these notions of inclusive fitness were much stronger when I would be with you in our tribe and I would never tell you something to harm you. There was no point in shooting yourself in the foot. Why now, as we've globalized to this degree, people tell me things, and you can see it from the big food, big pharma, big gov politics, it just doesn't seem like people care. It's like self-dealing instead of inclusive fitness, and it feels like it's because the inclusive stakeholder isn't there. So I don't have a physician or a teacher or a government or a food company that has a stake in my health and my actualization. A stake that is not just profit driven. Health should be delivered for health. Health should be delivered for money. Think about what we have as a for profit, so hospitals, schools, and prisons. How can those things be for profit or military? The whole idea of a prison for profit, the idea that how do you make profit of a prison, you have more people in prison, that's going to drive a system that incarcerates more people. A health care system where profit is, I'm not saying you shouldn't do research and make money off of new drugs and charge people for access to health care, but the goal should be to make people healthy, make their lives better rather than to make extra money. I think doctors should be paid well. I think teachers should be paid well. Why are those two things, they don't seem to be equitable. But where does all this come from? Why aren't we still all running around mostly getting along? Throughout our entire history, humans did not run through fields of daisies holding hands. We fought, we killed each other, we were horrible to one another, but not all the time. Not regularly and not with great frequency because as you said, it wouldn't have worked. If you had a group of people who were all jerks, they really wouldn't last. So what happened? Well, it's back to structures and hierarchies of inequality. How do you develop radically unequal systems? You do it by othering people. You do it by making someone less than. You do it by having a system where there are the haves and the have-nots. And the only way we as humans can live with that is if we differentiate ourselves thinking that the others that have less have less because they're worth less, right? And our political and historical economic structures over the last couple millennia clearly show that this is a pattern in our process, especially over the last 500, 300 years. And so one could ask these systems that have emerged over the last 500 years that are horribly unequal and problematic in many ways. It's not the only way humans can do things. The whole contemporary geopolitical landscape is not a given. It's not the only way humans could have gone. It's not the only way humans can go, right? So we still have this opportunity to change, but we better do something quickly. If we look around the world today, the whole earth is about to vomit us out pretty soon because we're at a tipping point here. And when I say we're at a tipping point, I'm not an alarmist. We're not going extinct. A lot of people always say, oh, we're going to go extinct. No, no, the earth can sustain twice or more as many humans as there are now. But the level of suffering that humans undergo right now for me is unacceptable. Think how much worse it's going to be as more humans are on the planet if we don't change. How can we take what story we tell and rather than making it be about fear, which is what I've seen be so persistent, instead we make it about exploration and prosperity, abundance, all these really cool words that we want to build the next world with and architect and design that fabric that gets us there. What are those pieces to that directional arrow that take us to that future? Yeah, that's a great question. And I wish I knew all the pieces, right? But sort of, it's time back to teachers, you know, education. So knowledge, you know, people throw around the phrase knowledge is power lightly. They shouldn't. It really is. It is. It is. So understanding basic things about human biology, basic things about ecology, understanding a good and accurate representation of our history. Those things actually make you aware of patterns and processes that help you understand where we are today. So if more people actually had a good idea of like, why are things the way they are? More people might, I don't know if they would, but might be a, inclined to do something about it and be able to do something about it, right? So the first thing is knowledge. I mean, we sort of, in this country, it's weird. We've given up sort of on educating children. And by that, I mean, we send them to school, but we send them to school to get tested. What was, you know, school should be about learning social skills, yeah, reading, writing, math, but playing, learning how to navigate the landscape, making friends, fighting with friends. I mean, it should be this entire experience of socialization and knowledge, enhancement and creation. We talked about sort of, you know, the idea of more, of abundance, of thinking through things. But what abundance? What do we want to have? Do we want more money? Do we want a better society? Right? I'm not saying those two things are mutually exclusive, but if we're training people to succeed at standardized tests and to go out into the world and strive for profit in whatever they do, we're cutting out so much of human capacity and potential. And we're also developing people who are ignorant to other ways of joy, right? Other way, you talked about abundance. Abundance can be measured in many, many, many ways. There's great research, and this is some of my favorite stuff, that you look at sort of older men in the United States. You know what the top indicator of longevity and happiness is? It's not wealth. It's not even what they did as a job in their life. It might not even be whether or not they had a family. It's how many individuals, late in life, they identify as friends. It's how robust their social network is. That should tell us something, right? Shouldn't that tell us something? It should say, look, this social network stuff, connectivity, for better and worse, is sort of what we do, so we better pay more attention to it. Because if you have seven, 10 really strong friends that you hang out with, that you can count on, that in your later parts of life are just these really close nodes that you're connected to at those spokes, versus what we see in sometimes today when young people are asked the question, how many people would you call a close friend that you could call in the case of an emergency, or to talk to you about something that's very vulnerable about what is going on with you. That's one of the reasons why we have that mental health issues. Absolutely. That's interesting. That's the number one indicator. There's a bunch of different studies, so it's one of the top ones, and it correlates with health outcomes. With health outcomes. Right? That's also similar with all these, they're called blue zones of life span. Absolutely. So you go around the world, there's this, is it, my partner, Davey Snivley, hiped me to this term. It's a Japanese term. I think it's called ikigai, and I think, I might be misrepresenting it, but it's generally, to paraphrase it, it serves this notion of a purpose, right? Having something that your life is not just about living, it's about doing, it's about being with, and people who are in their lives, who enjoy, or at least have this thing that they do, they live longer, so you've got to ask yourself, what is it? Health is not just a biological assessment. Health is literally a state of mind as well. Yeah. Yeah. Making one of the parts of that directional arrow be the architecting of that social fabric where every single child when they're born into the world can have their fullest potential to achieve what they're uniquely gifted for and blueprinted to do in this world, so that they can roar with that fire every moment of every day is so massive. And that whole thing, I'm actually going to push on one thing. Go please, yes, yes. I wouldn't say we're blueprinted, right? Because I understand what you mean, but that almost limits, because it's not humans can do anything, right? We're all quite distinctive in our patterns and our physiological capacities and even our neurobiological capacities, there's a lot of variation. But how we actually map across the space of our life history, it's not so much a blueprint, but a dynamic interface. And so we've got... Dynamic discovery process. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. So how do we facilitate flourishing, right? Which is what you're arguing, you know? How do we facilitate this dynamic process so this being can vacillate across opportunities fulfilling and flourishing what that biological, that original, that potential is, right? It's not one thing. It's a whole bunch of different possibilities. And if we're open to that and we don't believe that it's only one successful way to be human, there's not, there are many. Could you... Flourishing. Yes, could you argue that then when one finds themselves with that process of the dynamic interfacing of identifying what this maybe North Star or North Stars are and that we're fueled by that fire every day, that then could we not also look back and let's say if we find that out when we're 30 and we're roaring with it, could we then say that maybe I was uniquely blueprinted with this and I found... Sure. And so there is... I mean... I love that conversational point because it's just, it's the... Every single one of us has a passion for bringing a gift into the world, yeah. Absolutely. But we frequently don't know what that is. What it is. Right? And that's why in school, like when I'm talking to undergraduate students when they're going through their university degree, they're like, oh, I need a major, I have to focus right away. I'm like fine, I'm sure your parents are pushing you and your advisors are, but take some fun classes, figure out what's out there. This is a university, right? You get four years. You're lucky enough, you're amongst the most privileged individual on the planet. You get four years to figure out what kinds of knowledge you want to dabble in. And we can even go potentially more efficient, although the brain is less developed by 18 when you're indicating that they take the four years. But just we can expose children to such a myriad of different plays and experiences that then they themselves and meetups and all these different ways for them to figure out what they're passionate about as well. And kids can do it, right? I mean, if you stick a child in a multilingual environment, right, and do not instruct them, they can pick up four or five languages by the time they're 12, you know, they can be conversing. It's the brain. I mean, humans are just like, give me, I need, I want knowledge, I want experience, I want, and so this, when we talk about flourishing, part of that is just providing the opportunities. And this is back to where inequality is so damaging, where people feel separate and alone. When we take away and take away and take away those possibilities of flourishing for children, we see the downstream damage in adults. Exactly. Yeah. It also is that process of flourishing for every new seed is that we've been looking at it a lot like a big tree of possibility and that over time we want to accomplish as much of our unique gifts, preferably, you know, understand that by 20 or 30 rather than diet, and not know what it even was. And then, but even pre-seed, right, the seed, but that pre-seed area is, you know, your family's ancestral lineage, like did they have significant trauma? When you were born, did you get love, did you get air, food, water, shelter? Because if any of those roots to the tree didn't, were traumatized, didn't have the nutrients, the seed isn't going to produce as bountiful amount of fruits that it can then share with family, friends, civilization at large, yeah? Absolutely. That's a perfect sort of way to describe this. And back to our notion of ecosystems, right? Why is that a perfect way? Because this is true for all life. Why should humans be any different, right? And so that was beautiful, right? Because I think, you know, that capacity to reach branches into the sky and flower, right, is really dependent not just on the individual, but on everything around that individual and on the history of that individual and that individual's past, before that individual's even born. So that's what scares me about where we are right now, is that most people don't think about this, and most people don't recognize how important each life is in this way, how we are one, and how these dynamic processes connect us all together. Therefore, it is our responsibility, every one of us. But especially, as we said earlier, some have more power than others. So those with power, they, right? So we in the United States should be leading, not destroying, right? I mean, where there's a concentration of capacity, we should be deploying that in ways that augment the possibilities of flourishing, not restrict them. This is the ultimate, we just gave this analogy, just how do we make it so that those seeds that are born have all of those nutrients in the roots that they need and then can produce, identify and produce the fruits that they uniquely can gift into our world. And the leaders, like you said, that are leading in the economics, this is such a thing. You put a higher key up, and then we automatically go to wealth at the top. And then we always counter that by saying, what if it was the most enlightened at the top? What if you threw the Dalai Lama and all these other spiritual elders at the top? Because where do these 1,500 billionaires even fit? What if none of them, what if very few of them, like maybe only 10% of them have ever even felt ego loss before and feelings of interconnectedness or unconditional love? Then we're really talking like, how do we get to the other 90% and catalyze these feelings of interconnectedness and ego loss? Make the higher key based on spiritual enlightenment and then see where people... Yeah, I mean, there's so many ways we could do this. It is not a given. We just, most people just throw their hands up and, or they don't even throw their hands up. They just follow. And that's a problem, right? I would like to see people, this is horrible because I don't think anger is the right solution, but I would like for now, just a little bit, I'd like to see people get a little angry. I would like to see people be upset that the potential of all these seeds, the soil in which we are sowing our seeds, the world into, that we're poisoning it. I cried on an episode about six months ago or so when I cried about the exact thing that you're talking about. I started feeling the seeds of the children that we're not going to be able to express the fruits uniquely due to the social fabric. And it's up to us to communicate, to storytell, to inspire so that way they can, everybody born can do so. These are your siblings. Yeah. No, man, but storytellers. What do humans do? Storytellers, that's what we do. And so knowledge is power, right? But one of the biggest problems we have as educators, right, or the official structure of education is that we're frequently not good storytellers. That's horrible. We have all this great knowledge. Biology, an intro biology class, that should be the most dynamic, amazing experience of everyone's life. I mean, it's incredible. Like it took, actually, to learn how seeds grow, right? You did that great analogy, just so you walked us through it, but the biochemical, the structural, all of it, it's mind-blowing. We couldn't make this stuff up. It's incredible. So, I mean, you know, what can we do? People are always asking, what can you do? Well, one thing you can do is learn how to relate to other people through story. If you have knowledge, share that knowledge, right? It's what you're doing, right? You're trying to say, hey, look, there's a bunch of knowledge. There's a bunch of people who have it. Why don't we figure out some way to get it out? And what shocks me is with all of these democratizing technologies we have, you know, the ability to broadcast in every one of our hands. But people aren't thinking enough about, well, how do I broadcast? What do I broadcast? And why do I broadcast? To tell the stories, to inspire, yeah, to build that next world, yeah. We need to ask you this question as well. All of these things that we've been talking about on this second round together, does it feel like the unique complexities of this reality that we find ourselves in, and this rising to this grand challenge of solving what we've been talking about, is the exact purpose of this being made in the first place? Yeah. Wow. I don't know, right? This is one of those things where my world, where I focus, right? I want to know what can I understand, and how can I translate that understanding into a tangible thing that we'll facilitate using back to our metaphor here, improving the soil. What's the whole purpose? What's going on? That's a great thing to muse about, but I'll be honest, I don't have an answer. But the capacity to ask the question, to seriously ask the question, to think about it as something we all need to do, and whatever people's answers, right, because people have different answers for why, I mean, the big why. What am I doing here? What's the purpose? And is what I'm doing actually reflected of us, of an actual system, a trajectory? I don't believe we're locked into one trajectory, but I do believe, based on what I know about the world and ecosystems, that you can predict where things are going. We have the understandings of the systems and processes. And so looking back gives us some insight to the future, right? So whether it's all predetermined, I would say, I don't think so. But whether we're on a trajectory, we are. But it's malleable, right? We can shove it a little bit this way and nudge it that way. And I think that's the real hopeful thing, that no matter what, so many of us can believe so many different things about why, but we can actually agree on what. And I think that's really important. It feels like more and more after doing this show and featuring all these different leaders, especially across science and spirituality and the marriage of the two, it feels like more and more that this was all made for this exact process that we're going through. And it is profoundly beautiful. And being able to experience it through this vehicle of a body that's just so majestic. Good term. I like that. It is majestic. All of this stuff is majestic. But it's nice to remember that, right? People forget. And people think about the mundane of the body, better remember the majestic of the experience. And when we are really deeply immersed in the majestic and the beauty of that we're here going through this process, and it is not something that is just in the brain intellectualized, but it's deeply embodied and then interconnected with all of the other millions of species, all of the other billions of humans in the whole biosphere, the entire actual reality that we're in, then we feel at home. Then the feeling is there. And then there's then all the other those issues we were talking about, they don't come up. Wow. Augustine, what a profound second conversation this has been. It's fun talking with you just because the opportunity to explore freely this kind of engagement. It's a gift. It's such a gift. The tennis ball going back and forth, good tennis players and we stand on the shoulders of all the other people that have made us better tennis players. So we have a responsibility. Yes, we do. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on the program for round two. It's my pleasure. Wow. So fun. So fun. I love it. Thanks everyone for tuning in. We greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below in the episode. Let us know what you're thinking. And check out the links in the bio below to Augustine's work. Check out the links below to his books. Also check out the links below to the American Anthropological Association. You can go and support them on Twitter, you can go and check out their website as well. Those links are in the bio below. Also support the artists, the entrepreneurs, the spiritual leaders, the organizations around the world and in your communities that you believe in. Support them and help them flourish. You can find our show simulation, all of our links in the bio below to Patreon, Cryptocurrency, PayPal. You can design cool merch and get paid all those links in the bio below. So you can continue doing cool things like coming onsite to Epic conferences and interviewing their leaders. And go and build that future that we were talking about in this episode. We love you very much, thanks for tuning in everyone, we'll see you soon. Awesome. Wow! Boom! What a crazy round two. So good! I know you got... I gotta run. I just love chatting with you because as an interviewer, you understand narrative flow and also just... I hate the term spiritual sometimes, but just like we can do things, you know, and that's fun because a lot of people are worried about where things are going as opposed to trying to sort of find your time at tennis match, right? So we harmonized there playing tennis. That analogy of the tree of possibilities and seed theory, I've been working on that for a while and I'm figuring out how to disseminate it through chimps is one of the ways that series I was talking about. You like that one a lot. I love that because just even with your hand, you know, the whole of that thing, it was a very short, very clear, and it makes everyone understand it exactly. The seed in the ground, the nutrients, the tree growing up through... It's so easy to understand. And it's scientifically accurate. It is, yeah. Correct. That's the best part. You know? Because it's a perfect line. It has to do that. Yeah. And it's an old... I mean it's something that a lot of people have used, but you just have a good way I think to set it up so that it's not... You're not just just glad people put it. It's clear this is not just a plant, right? Yeah. But it is a plant. Yes. And remembering that is important. Yes. Yes. And it ties us to plants, to actualization. Exactly. Exactly. All this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I love it.