 Oh, it's great. You're live. OK, perfect. So welcome, everybody, to today's meeting of the Herpillature Climate Action and Conics Special Interest Group on November 30. Today we have a special guest here. And our meeting is Walid Al-Sakhaf. He will talk about how we can build a trustworthy, transparent, and traceable ecosystem to safeguard nature. But before we start with his presentation, this is a hyperluxious call. So the antitrust policy notice is in effect, as well as the Hyperluxure Code of Conduct. So if you haven't read through them, click on them, and please follow the rules. It's about being kind to each other, respect each other. And these are hyperluxure calls, so everyone is welcome. And as a next step, we give new members, new people on the call, the chance to introduce themselves. So if there's anyone new on the call, please feel free to share who you are, why you're based, and also what you're passionate about, what brings you to this call today. Well, I'm new. I've been on a couple calls, but my name is T.R. And I have my background in spatial analysis with Environmental Studies, Sustainable Development, and Climate Change. But recently, I'm delving into the cryptocurrency world. And I'm currently in the process of building a regenerative marketplace with cryptocurrency techniques. And yeah, I'm interested on hearing all these different products that come on board here. Thanks for introducing yourself, T.R. Is anyone else in the call? Taking a look at the participants list. This is Joel. And I formerly was on calls, but I haven't been receiving invites for quite a long time. I don't know why. And I received one, so I thought I'd join in and listen in and see where the project is. Hey, thanks for joining, Joel. Are you subscribed to the mailing list? I must be on the mailing list because I just got the meeting invite. And I totally was on the mailing list. I don't really know why it disappeared for a while. Yeah, we double-checked this on our site because usually we send out emails on a weekly basis to invite people to our calls. But thanks for flagging it. Yeah, maybe it ended up in a spam folder. And in any case, they restarted. So I think we're all good. OK. So about Walid. Walid is the CEO and co-founder of Rebalance Earth. And Rebalance Earth is a global ecosystem service platform for value-earning and funding, a living nature to combat climate change by diversity loss and lifting communities out of poverty. I'm pretty sure Walid will tell you much more about this and we'll do this much better than I can do. But also he started off in the corporate world at Barclays Corporate Banking in 1998. And he's a serial entrepreneur, has already funded six startups and one had a successful acquisition. He is an industry associate at the UCL Center for Blockchain Technologies and the proud father of two little and amazing daughters. So Walid, thanks you so much for joining today. The stage is yours. If you have any questions during the presentation, just type them into the chat. And we will follow them at the end of the presentation. There will be time for a Q&A. Walid, it's up to you. Thank you. Thank you, Robin. And thank you for giving me this opportunity to share our amazing story with your audience. If you could please enable the share screen. And then I'll start the presentation that I've prepared for all of you here. So I'm a serial entrepreneur. This is effectively my seventh startup. My sixth startup is called Insure Blocks. It's effectively a podcast where I've interviewed over 170 people on my show on how they use enterprise grade blockchain solutions within their respective industries. And it's within this podcast that I got the chance to interview Mr. Ralph Chami, who is the assistant director at the IMF. And the reason I wanted to interview him is because he wrote this article which just completely shocked my world. So to give you a bit of background, I'm not a naturalist. I'm not environmentalist. I'm not a conservationist. I am curious. I love nature and so on. But I wouldn't say I'm an environmentalist. But when I read this article in which he stated that forest elephants are worth $40,000 dead for their ivory. But according to the IMF, that worth $1.75 million dollars for their carbon sequestration services they do in the forest. And I'll explain this later on in the slide. But what's interesting is that we have today a market for a dead elephant. Yes, it's an illegal one, the ivory, but it still exists. But we do not have a market for a living elephant, even though it's worth a lot more alive. And when you consider this and the fact that nature is considered as an externality instead of an internality by companies and society, i.e. when you produce products and services, there is a cost related to it from a nature perspective and the raw materials that is extracted or the trees that are chopped. And there's pollution that is caused. All these externalities are all these costs of sincere externality, i.e. they're not factored into the price of the product. And what this means to me fundamentally is that we as a society, we value nature only when it's dead. We do not value it as a living nature. We value it for the fish you eat on your plate, the wood in terms of your furniture and all these examples. We value a dead nature, not a living one. And that frame of mind is what, in my opinion, causes climate change because we do not value a living nature. It's what causes biodiversity loss that we're seeing all around the world. And those two factors, when you combine them together, is actually a huge trigger of global poverty. And I'll explain this later on in the slides. Because we do not value a living nature, only a dead nature, we have climate change, biodiversity loss, and increased poverty. And climate change is not something in the world of just science. Here in Europe, we saw it throughout the summer in Germany, in Holland, in many other countries in Europe. Or if you're in the States, in New York, these were some of the floods that happened not so long ago. But it's not just water. I mean, there is wildfires that were going all across Turkey and North Africa. And for those, again, of you in North America, we had it in Canada and the United States. Again, this is happening today. It's not happening in the hypothetical future. Now, I'm the father of two daughters. So on the picture here on my left side, you've got Soraya, who is nine years old. And on the right-hand side, you've got Gia, who is just turned 11, actually. Now, today's children, for any of you who have kids yourselves, will feel as alarmed as I did. According to The Guardian, today's children will endure an average of 30 extreme heat waves in their lifetime. Twice as many droughts and wildfires that you and I, as adults, have experienced. And three times more river floods and crop failures. As a father, I simply refuse to accept that that's my legacy that I'm going to give to them. I had to do something about it. And that's what over 60 volunteers all around the world have joined rebounds to do something about that. Now, let's see what the world is doing to fight all these issues. Well, we're planting trees. And God knows we need a lot of trees. But there's one major problem. There's not enough land on this earth to plant all the trees we need to offset all the carbon. And second of all, these trees take decades to grow into fully mature trees that absorb carbon. Whilst we need to plant those trees, what is crazy is that we're still destroying the existing mature trees that exist in the Amazon rainforest or that exists in other forests around the world. We're still destroying the ancient trees. Planting trees also is not going to stop the ecosystem destruction of the oceans. There was a recent Netflix documentary that also explained about that. Planting trees does not also stop the destruction of biodiversity. Here's an arrogantan fighting this machine from destroying its homeland. It kind of makes you think of the movie Avatar, but in real life. And that's the craziness about it. And as I said earlier on, the combination of climate change and biodiversity is a huge contributor to poverty. According to the World Bank, climate change will drive 68 to 132 million people into poverty by 2030. Now, as Antonio Anguieres, the Secretary General of the United Nations said not so long ago, humanity is not at a code red situation. But you know what? We've got a lot of luck. Because we've got nature superheroes are here to save us from ourselves effectively. So who are they? Well, I'm talking about the Great Whales. I'm talking about the arrogantans. I'm talking about the forest elephants. Now, all of these superheroes are called keystone species. A keystone species is small in number, but it has a massive impact on the whole ecosystem in which they reside in. That's why they're also known as ecosystem engineers. And those superheroes have a unique set of superpowers. They're called ecosystem services. So if we focus on the forest elephant, those services are branched into four groups around regulating, supporting, provisioning, and cultural. So they help regulate the climate. They help to access a sea dispersal agent. They help providing fresh water. And they help in some cultures, they have an ethical value or spiritual value for them. All of these are being provided day in, day out for free, for us humans to enjoy, to benefit from. None of them have a market, except for one now, which is the carbon sequestration services. The carbon offsets, because according to the IMF, that worth $1.75 million over their 60-year lifespan. So how would that number come up? It's based on a 2019 scientific study in Nature Magazine that looked at the Congo Basin in Central Africa. To give you an idea, the Congo Basin's tropical rainforest is the second largest rainforest after the Amazon. And they realized something quite amazing is that the parts of the forest that have been able to maintain their forest elephants capture 7% more carbon than the parts of the forest that lost their elephants. So what does the elephant actually do to increase the productivity of the forest by 7%? Well, as you can imagine by its size, that the elephant has a tendency of trampling and destroying a lot of the smaller plants. And he has this particular taste to eat, but also to destroy trees that are very thin in terms of their wood. It's very low density compared to those who are very dense wood. What this means is that the dense-wooded trees do not fight as much for natural resources. So they grow thicker trunks and they grow taller because it is the trees which have thick trunks, thick density of wood, who are the super absorbers of carbon compared to the trees with low density of wood. And the forest elephant is one of the few animals who can eat the fruits of that tree. And then he does one metric ton of poo every week. He spreads the seeds around the forests, but also the nutrients. And that maintains the health of the forest. That's why they're also known as the great gardeners of the rainforest. So of all those ecosystem services, we have one that we can peg a dollar value to to protecting that keystone species. All we need is a market for that. And that's where Rebalance Earth comes in because we're building this global ecosystem services platform for valuing and funding and living nature to combat climate change, protect biodiversity and to lift communities out of poverty because we cannot treat each of these problems in silos. They're all interconnected. And that's why we have this holistic approach to fighting all of these problems. And this is how we're gonna do it. So on the left-hand side, you have buyers whether it's households, corporates, capital markets who come onto the platform to buy ecosystem services credits. For you guys, I can say the word tokens, right? And the value of those tokens goes to pay for the park rangers to protect the elephant from poachers. But crucially, 70 to 75% of the value of those tokens goes in the form of micro investments to the local communities that reside around where the elephant lives. So that you're linking their economic development to the welfare of the Keystone species in our case, the forest elephant. So you could get, for example, free healthcare, free education, new jobs because that elephant is kept safe. And those tokens are produced because across the forest in our pilot country which is gonna be Gabbo in Western Africa, you have a series of what's called motion-activated camera traps, acoustic sensors because every elephant makes unique sound and also simple DNA testing of the dunk. Every time those sensors can prove that an elephant was alive yesterday, we produce an ecosystem services token of a value between $50 to $100 because $1.75 million over 60 years, that's roughly $80 a day. So every day we can prove that a single elephant is alive, reproduce a token. And all of that is tracked and monitored on an R3 Corda Black blockchain to provide the transparency, traceability and trust. And I'm absolutely delighted that R3 has given us a free enterprise grade solution and we've got a lot of supporters from their developers and from their CEO, David Rutter. So our proposition is the following. For local communities, we're here to create jobs and improve their living standards. We're here to create a symbiotic relationship between themselves and nature. But critically, we're here to make conserving nature profitable. Not about charity, charity does not work. It has to be profitable. You safeguard that species, you get free education, free healthcare, you get jobs created. From a government perspective, Gabon has 45,000 elephants. That means we could add $31 billion to their balance sheet. You need a system to be able to promote good governance. You don't want ministers or local politicians to take money out of the platform. And that's where of course the blockchain can help as we can track everything. So we can promote good governance. We can create new revenue streams for the government as we create new jobs, new taxable income. From a nature perspective, we're protecting nature. We're regenerating biodiversity. And from a buyer's perspective, we're creating this transparent, traceable and trusted carbon offset. I mean, ecosystem services credit priced as a carbon offset. Because we've learned the mistakes of the carbon offset markets in the past. There was lack of transparency. There was double counting. And it was full of middlemen that were here to make a quick book. So how could this look? So this is a concept. If hypothetically, Microsoft was a client. Again, hypothetically. So you would say how many ecosystem services tokens were produced? The value of the contract has been delivered. How much is outstanding? And an example of how we transform your carbon dollars into carbon for social good in the building of the school in this example. But the most important tab is if you click on your elephants, where for every single day in the past, we can show you that on that day, these are the elephants that produced your tokens. On another day, it's a different set of elephants. So you have this whole community of elephants that are producing those ecosystem services tokens. And you can see the pictures. You can see the video files, the sound files, or the DNA test that proves this is a unique elephant that produced a unique token. There's no double counting. But imagine the visual value in those pictures, in those videos, and how we can help bring the buyers whether it's a household or an enterprise closer to nature within a 24-hour basis. That is very powerful. But there's this African proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, you go together. And we definitely want to go together because I think what's important to understand is that you see the farthest elephants behind me? According to the IUCN, they're going to go extinct in 10 years. We're going to lose 7% of those carbon offsets because of those elephants being gone. So these are just one example. There's a lot of other T stone species who are on a path to extinction. We as rebounds, we can grow as fast as we can. We're never going to be fast enough. So what we've decided to do is how we can take our scientific model that right now has been developed for the farthest elephants and actually the Great Whales and how we can provide it as a framework for nation states, charities, not for profits and other organizations to be able to upload their own keystone species onto the platform on a kind of a marketplace for keystones. As long as they follow our rigorous scientific framework to link the value of the services that keystone provide to carbon offsets. That's the only market that exists today. So in this manner, we can really accelerate the number of keystone species we can provide and projection for, same because there's a market for them. But then of course, there's the question of if you're uploading a keystone species, how are you going to monitor it? You need sensors. And that's where we realize we can plug in with the hundreds of thousands of conservationist groups that are already on the ground all around the globe who have their own sensors. So I'll give you an example. Remember, I'm telling you, we're looking to launch in Gabon early next year. So this is Victoria, that's it, from the Max Planck Institute, a German institute who have been monitoring the Great Apes in the Lowango National Park for the last, I think six years. And they have a network of 30 camera traps. Those motion activated camera traps take pictures of the apes, but also the elephants who move bikes. It's everything that moves. They've given us 21 gigabytes where some pictures are ready. And by connecting their sensors to our platform, we can generate revenues for them because for every picture or video that we use from their sensors, we will pay them up to a dollar for that image, for that video. So effectively we're transforming their camera traps as a source of revenue. We're effectively funding conservationism and that helps us to be able to get scale, to be able to have this network of sensors all around the world that provides pictures, videos and sound files of the Keystone species and enables all of the charities, NGOs, institutions and governments wanna upload their Keystone species to be able to monitor it. Now, critically with this horde of data we're gonna get, we want to standardize it. We wanna clean it. We wanna make sure it's really well structured because we want to distribute it for free to the scientific community around the world for them to use that data to have a better understanding of biodiversity because it is with that better understanding that we're gonna be able to start unlocking the other valuations of those ecosystem services because I do not wanna be dependent on just carbon offsets. I wanna understand the value of those other services. Let me give you an example. And remember one of the ecosystem services is around regulating the climate. Did you know that part of what the elephants does regulates the humidity of the forest in the Congo basin? And this is critically important because the humidity on the eastern side of the Congo basin is what provides the rainwater to the Ethiopian hills which comes down the hills into the Nile which the farmers in Egypt are grateful for. The western part of the Congo rainforest, the humidity is what provides the rainfall and the drinking water for the whole Sahel region. The forest elephants disappear, the humidity level drops and the forest shrinks. And according to studies, that could lead up to 120 million people migrating north because of water scarcity and poverty and food insecurity. That is not being valued today but it could with more data and a better understanding and to accelerate this kind of better understanding, we launched a few months ago in partnership with the minister of the environment for Gabon, the world's, what we believe is the world's first nature sandbox. Where over a period of two years, we're working today already with a global team of scientists to better understand the impact those forest elephants have on the forest in terms of their ecosystem services. And all of that knowledge is what's going to help us develop a more rigorous scientific framework so that we can upload more keystone species onto the platform. So if we can build all this, and trust me, it is a huge ask but that's why we're task ourselves to do it, is that you're going to have this platform with a huge amount of liquidity which we believe can create the new foundation layer for building new business models and a new asset class around ecosystem services. So for example, insurance companies could come in and start insuring those assets or providing micro insurance to the farmers in Gabon and other jurisdictions because now we're taking in fact an unbanked population and we make them backable with digital wallets that we can provide to them. So all of this, you need a strong independent governance oversight body that's going to be composed of rebounds, representatives from the national governments in which we operated, representatives of the local communities in which we operated and two types of global institutions. We've had a number of conversations with the World Bank to help us manage this new asset class but also we want to work with the WWF and with Greenpeace to be able to fight against firms who want to use this for greenwashing because that is not acceptable. You have as a company to do the necessary changes for you to become net zero. We're just here to help you on that journey. You're not here to use us only because that is not acceptable. So let me tell you a little bit about the team. Who are we? Well, the three co-founders myself and the assistant director of the IMF, Ralph Chami and also Ian Redman, our wildlife conservationist and Ian Redman, he's like a cross between David Antembro and Indiana Jones. He's been doing this for 40 years and he's truly passionate about conservationism. And to help drive all this, we have this team of amazing individuals, 60 volunteers from all around the world, from all walks of life. We have lawyers, we have startup founders, we have musicians, we have developers, all kinds of skill sets are here because the problem we're facing requires a multidisciplinary approach to tackling it. It won't be solved only by technology or only by politics or only by legal frameworks. It needs everybody on board. And we were born out of COVID in November of last year. 90% of us have never met except for Zoom. So what unites us is to be human, have love and give hope. And we are registered here in the UK as what's called a Community Interest Company. It's a for-profit company, but there's some critical conditions related to it. We can never be acquired and we can never be listed on the stock market, i.e. our shares have no monetary value because I don't want this to be acquired by some company at some stage and change it for whatever reasons. All the profits are reinvested to safeguard the keystone species, to fight climate change, to protect biodiversity and to lift communities out of poverty. But that's enough from me. And just before I take your questions, I just want to show you a quick little clip about why some of these 60 people have joined Rebalance Earth. I work with Rebalance Earth because finding a solution for climate change and valuing biodiversity is important to me. Here in Maine, the Gulf of Maine is warming faster than any body of water in the world. We need to address climate change now. Here in the Asia Pacific region, we have already lost a quarter of our endemic species. So it's showing to create a movement in support of ecosystem services. In my lifetime, we've lost two-thirds of all species, so I know we're running out of time. So another reason I joined Rebalance Earth is because I think it's a game-changing idea and we need those. We are trying to save keystone species which will all contribute to the wider issue of solving the climate problem. Rebalance Earth works at the golden intersection of technology and biodiversity, and I think the solution can be used to save more wildlife species in the future. I joined Rebalance Earth because we need more community and nature-based solutions to protect keystone species from wildlife crime. I joined Rebalance Earth because I want to see elephants and whales in abundance in the future. Create a more sustainable way of living so that my children and my children's children don't have to witness the destruction of the natural world as we know it. And that's why I help Rebalance Earth and I'm really excited about what we're coming for you. Thank you, and I'm happy to take your questions now. Well, Eid, thank you so much for your presentation. We really enjoyed it. There's so much value in what we were saying and the idea you framed around and just capitalizing nature in a way of that it protects nature. So you just take money out of the real world, tokenize it, and they're able to protect the ecosystem service providers of our world. And it's not just about finding climate change, it's a combination of the keystone species and poverty and climate change. That is amazing. Thank you. And yeah, I'm looking forward to the questions of the audience. If there are any questions, I'm pretty sure there are some. I mean, if you want, whilst the questions are coming, I can talk about some reactions we've been getting. So for example, I had the pleasure of attending COP26 in Glasgow three, four weeks ago. My notion of time is kind of escaping with the amount of work we have. And the government of Gabon, of course, is a big fan and supporter of this and interactions I've had with some other government entities and with some corporations has been very supportive because what they like about this is that it's a holistic solution. They don't have to say, okay, I need to focus on climate change here. I need to focus on biodiversity here. I need to do this, this, and this. No, this is the one all-encompassing solution that helps to address all of these problems at the same time. But yeah, when you're mining tokens from the Alps, how do you ensure the value of the tokens? So that's a good question. So thank you for that. One of the approaches we're looking at is that if you look at carbon offsets, there are two types. There is the carbon credits, which are extremely well regulated, let's say. And then you've got the voluntary carbon offsets, which is a bit the wild west, to be honest. The carbon credits are valued, it depends which market you look at, but the European market is probably the most established one. I believe they're closer to $70 right now per metric ton. The voluntary carbon offset, it can really vary. It depends on what a buyer feels, the value of it. It can be, for example, if you look at Stripe, they buy carbon offsets and that varies between $4 to $100 because it all depends on what are the, let's say the carbon plus value. Is it just carbon you're providing or are you providing additional stuff? Obviously we're providing a lot of additional stuff. And what we've agreed with the minister of Gabon is a price of $50 on which to price ourselves for the initial token. As we started getting more data and more understanding on the valuation of those ecosystem services outside of just carbon offset, then we will review that kind of pricing. But one of the other key messages that came out of COP26 is that there's a huge premium for what's called a top tier carbon offset. So what is a top tier carbon offset? Is one that you can really trace the providence of it that you can confirm that it is authentic and that it hasn't been double counted. If you can do that and there's a certain amount of benefits that comes with it, then you can get a top price. To ensure we get that top price, we're also working with what's called VERA. So VERA is one of the main third parties out there that actually monitors the creation of those carbon credits then independent trusted party that works under the red plus, the UN red plus agreements. So we're working with them in terms of our nature sandbox to be able to see what are their standards we can use in terms of framing our ecosystem services tokens around that to make sure we get that top tier valuation in terms of our carbon credits. I hope that's answered your question. Matt, in terms of what you're doing, the emergence of greenwashing is a corporate strategy claiming charity. Yeah, greenwashing is a real authentic threat. There's no denying about that firms. Some firms are, you know, do it because they believe in their hearts and hearts that that's the right thing to do. Patagonia is one of the best examples out there. You get some who do it because I think they understand the changing market on how consumers are more informed that they want firms that have a proactive approach protecting climate and they realize that their employees also want to work for firms who have a good view and probably Microsoft is a good example who said we don't want to be just carbon neutral. We want to be carbon negative. We want to pay back our debt to nature for the last 40 years that we've basically consumed that we contributed to climate change. So our approach is twofold. As you can imagine, again, we're all run by volunteers. So none of us are being paid for this. We're all doing this in our spare time. So what we've created as part of the onboarding process for firms is a digital pledge where the firm has to pledge that they were not using this for greenwashing but also within the onboarding, we have a team that's going to be verifying has that firm made a clear and measurable public statement that says by when they're going to be carbon neutral. They need to have done those two things for us to accept them to join our platform. And as I mentioned in their presentation, once we grow and we start building this independent governance oversight body, then we want to work with WWF and especially Greenpeace who are well-known for tracking down greenwashers. I hope that's answered your question. And what is the value of the credits that are produced and what is the price for the credits? So as I said, at the moment, we're looking at a price point of $50. Now we haven't launched yet. We're hoping to launch between Q2 and Q3 next year. You have to understand that what we're trying to do has never been done. It is very hard and it is run just by volunteers, but we have received enormous support. So we've already got the support of R3. We've got the support of Warwick Business School. We've got the support of 52 universities from China to the United States and everything in between. The support of course of the Ministry of the Environment for Gabon. So all of this is what will enable us of course to launch within Q2 and Q3 and where those tokens will be able to purchase. And we will be publishing that on LinkedIn, Twitter and all the social media links. Having said that, I'm hoping before the end this year, we're gonna be able to announce the first corporate that is signing an MOU with us to buy the first tokens as soon as they come out. What is the mechanism of routing returning to communities and industries where the partnerships will occur or something about how this could be intended? Yeah, this is gonna be, it's like putting optical fiber, internet in a city. You can roll it out across city, but it's always the last mile if you go into the building and then into the flats that is always the hardest. And for us that is very much around that because when you work with local communities, it is you want to empower the local communities to be able to make the decisions on how they want to use those funds. Because you have to be very worried that you're not seen as a Norse telling the South what to do. And in a lot of those countries, Gabon definitely one of them, you have, they have this colonialism heritage in mind and you have to be very sensitive about it. So you want to be able to give them the tools where they can make the right decisions but also agree together some incentive mechanisms. And I'm very privileged that we can leverage the learnings from other initiatives including one from Hyperledger that was done by the Plastic Bank in terms of what they did in a very similar system to ours which we drew inspiration from theirs, which is around plastic. And here it's about saying, for example, if you wish to use your tokens to purchase, I don't know, a 50 inch screen TV for your community center, you get 70% of the value of the tokens. If you want to use it to build a school, you get 100% of the value of the tokens. Maybe even 110%. But these have to be agreed in partnership with them. And it's always very tricky to make sure, are you working with the right representative of the local community? Is that representative an elected official? Is it just the elders of that community? We're not here to do social engineering. So we have to work within their existing structure. So that's our approach. And we're gonna figure it out. We're in January and we're actually sending a team over to Gabon to start interacting with some of the local communities. Hopefully recruit one or two. They're gonna be the first employees who are gonna get paid to be our representatives on the ground, to be able to communicate with them in an appropriate manner. I hope that's answered your question. The Plastic Bank Keith, and I'll get you a link, but Plastic Bank is actually a wonderful initiative that was launched by David Katz. I think it was four or five years ago. And they basically enable local communities who live alongside the riverways of countries. I know they're in Egypt. And if memory serves me right, maybe in Malaysia, I'm not too sure. But effectively, if you pick up this Plastic and then bring it to a collection point, the collection point will size it, provide you an ID. It's sent over to the West who recycles the plastic, sells it to, let's say, supermarkets like Marks & Spencer's, who use the plastic to make plastic bags. The value of that plastic that is purchased is then sent back to the person who picked it up as a token, and they can use that token to purchase different services to support them. So that kind of model, I absolutely loved. And we worked with both David Katz and his CTO, Sean, to basically finesse our model, because I don't believe in reinventing the wheel. If there's a model out there that exists, we will work with them to try and learn from it and build on it. So, William, there's another question in the chat. It says, how are you financially supporting this endeavor sustainably into the future business model? Yeah, yeah. So we're still refining the business model, but effectively what we will do is it will charge a transactional fee that it's gonna be a percentage related to the transaction. So let's say for argument's sake, we sell $100 token, then we take a $10 transaction fee. And that fee is used to pay the operational costs, running the team, but a significant percentage of the fee is actually gonna go back into the nature sandbox, into the science team so we can accelerate knowledge and science in understanding the value of biodiversity because the more there is data, the more there is science and economic models around those ecosystem services and around biodiversity, the more we have a diverse view on the value of those tokens. I do not wanna be based on just carbon offsets. Carbon offsets, we're kind of forced to take it because that's the only one that existed as a market. But we use that funding to be able to invest in learning about diversity, such as for example, the example I gave you around the humidity in the forest so we can have robust models that can explain why this valuation was, how that valuation was built and why we believe that price is now $50 plus X. And that's how we ourselves are sustainable and that we're highly profitable so we can get the science to protect as many other keystone species as fast as possible. What's the best way to contact me please? Do contact me. You can find me on LinkedIn. That's probably the best way or else, feel free to email me on Rebalance.Earth. I may get you my LinkedIn. You can follow me also, you can follow, sorry, RebalanceEarth on LinkedIn. It's probably the best channel. Let me get you that up. Also, if you use a member, there we go. Probably without my company. Let me kill that. There you go. Yes, we always need volunteers. The task we've got at hand is simply enormous, but it has to be done. We cannot continue thinking that just fighting climate change is a solution by building technology like the orca, I think it's called in Iceland. It's a machine that actually absorbs carbon from the air and puts it into, mineralize into a rock and then puts it deep underground. And we do need these kinds of machines, but the problem by these machines is that there's no ripple effect. So let's say for every dollar you invest in getting this machine to absorb the carbon, that's all you get. You get that. Imagine for that same dollar you invest, you put it into a forest elephant. You get the carbon offset, but you also get all the other ecosystem services they provide. And that dollar goes to invest in the local communities. The more you raise local communities out of poverty, the more they don't need to migrate, the more they can have a healthy, sustainable form of living in their homes. No one wants to migrate, but if you give them the opportunity to get good jobs, that's great. One thing I forgot to mention, and that is very important. Coming back to the initial question, we want to incentivize those local communities to develop a kind of a micro-credit fund, i.e. providing short-term loans, providing loans, very small loans to women, because we want to empower women to be able to invest in creating their own little businesses, whether it's a shop or whatever else they want to build, because there's a direct correlation between giving women educational and financial producing opportunities and the health of society. So we definitely want to encourage this as possible. This is why I'm saying this product is very wide in terms of its scope, but it needs to be looked at in this holistic fashion. It cannot be looked at in a silo, because the more you look at nature, the more you realize how everything is so incredibly interconnected. It's only us humans who try to look at things in a very solid way, because that's how we can work. It has to be interconnected. I want to build a marketplace, global energy chain. Let me open your link. I go energy building sustainable solutions for climate action and the new energy markets. I don't know of it, Bobby, but I'm happy to look it into it. We as rebounds, we want to be interconnected with all other initiatives as possible. Let me give you an example. There are other blockchain initiatives that perhaps focus more on forest or on soil in terms of fighting climate change, and these are all very important, but we want to be able to interconnect with all of them as much as possible, because I know this is blue sky thinking. I'm assuming most of you guys are familiar with the concept of a stable coin. For those of you who are not, think of Bitcoin as not a stable coin. It goes up and down your millionaire one day and then you're broke the other day. A stable coin like Tether, for example, is pegged to the US dollar. Imagine you have a nature stable coin that is pegged to all of these initiatives, rebounds, earths, and all the others, so that that country, the more it protects biodiversity, the more it's rewarded. So that, again, is blue sky thinking, but I thought I'll share it with you guys because you're more aware about this. How much will the forest rangers, investors, volunteers, node operators, insurers, make, who else stands to profit? Do you have any? An MVP, are you better seeing? So we're hoping to have an MVP by Q2, Q3 next year, Elizabeth. Right now we have a proof of concept of our token structure and we're building on the quarter blockchain, the actual platform. Forest rangers, again, depends on their section, so their salaries that depend can vary, but of course here we want to be able to help finance paying those forest rangers because very often they're not paid for months to come, so they don't really do their service. So we want to be able to provide them stable income so that they can perform their services to protect the forest elephants. Investors, so investors, we are looking for investors, but they're called impact investors because where as CIC, we cannot provide shareholder value. We don't want to give shareholder value. We want to give nature value. So any impact investors, at least who are UK based, because we're a CIC, they can get 40% of their money back from their taxes. So the funds will help us be able to build our platform. So that's why we provide impact investors. Insurance, well, that's for them to build their proposition on top of the platform. We don't do anything. It's really for them to develop products and to build on top of it. And as I said, the MVP will be in Q2, Q3 of next year. Thank you, we're inevitably all interconnected. Yes, we definitely are. And thank you, Bobby, Blue Sky thinking. We do need blue sky thinking, because you never know at the speed at which technology is evolving. So blue sky thinking can happen tomorrow. And you got to think big. And I said, this is my seven startup and I always want to think big because you have to. You have to dream. You have to be able to challenge the status quo. So yeah, happy to take any other questions you may have. So we'll need to have another question related to token economics of Rebalance Earth. There's one token that we can buy for, it starts at $50 and it's backed by one day of a living elephant at the moment. And I guess there will be another token that the local communities will be paid with, right? Yes. Okay. And if I buy this token, is this just for me or can I just see this as a donation that I do to offset my carbon footprint and support local communities and try to prevent biodiversity loss or is there an incentive for me to buy this token and just hold it for a couple of years and then sell it to another person or corporate just to see this as the kind of asset in a carbon asset. Yes, yes. So there's a lot of debate around that internally within Rebalance Earth because if you make that token an investable asset then the good parts about it is that we can open up very rapidly to capital markets. We'll say, here, here's a hundred million dollars because we believe and that's what's happening. The price of carbon is gonna go up by the time we hit 2030 and we see it happening even just within this year. The advantage about doing that, of course, is that we are able to protect a lot of Keystone species from day one straight away. The question note that arises, are you sustaining a model that got us into trouble in the first place? I don't have quite the answer to that question yet. My personal view is the following. You buy a token, that token has a value for only 12 months and then it's burned. The reason for that is because we're using 12 months as an accounting year for a firm. When they purchase that token, they can use that token on their balance sheet, especially when we have received the necessary accreditation from Vera and just being a regulated carbon credit. It can sit on their balance sheet and they can prove potentially to the regulators that they are carbon offset. They've met their regulatory requirements for that year. Because if you think of an analogy, if you have a plumber that comes in your house and fixes your pipes, he's done that work. You can't really resell that work because they won't work for another house, right? So the forest elephant has done his or her services in the forest yesterday. It's done. You can buy the next token for tomorrow, but yesterday has been done and that value only exists for up to 12 months. So that's my personal view. That's the one I'm definitely encouraging the team to take. We are, however, and this is really in the early days thinking like last week. We're trying to think about, if you think about this ecosystem service token as kind of a utility token, is there an opportunity for a kind of a cryptocurrency token on top? So let me explain the things. And again, apologies, this is really early days. Is that if somehow we can link that utility token to the crypto coin that says, every time we can prove that elephant was alive yesterday, we produce an ecosystem service token that also produces, I'd say, a rebalanced crypto coin. Once that ecosystem service token is purchased, then maybe your rebalanced earth token goes up in value. And the idea is that I want to somehow tap into the cryptocurrency community because they're very powerful. And if they are incentivized to say, actually I'm buying all these tokens and they can increase in value significantly once they purchase, can I somehow put pressure on the firms where I make purchases, Nike or Apple or whoever to start buying those ecosystems service token? Because then I will benefit from it financially also. So it's about figuring out how I can create multiple layers of incentive mechanisms for every single actor. Don't know quite how we're gonna do this, but the idea is, and we like to throw ideas on the wall and try to figure out what can stick, how we can make it work and throw a lot onto it. But that's something that thinking, but what's definite is how the ecosystems service tokens are produced, how they're sold. And my personal view is that they only have a value for 12 months and they can't be resold. I hope that's answered your question. It's perfect, Wadi, thank you. Is there a way to photo up your discussions about the token economies you just talked about? Reach out to me personally because I literally had a chat just this morning with a friend who is a bit more of an expert on this because I specialize much more in private enterprise blockchains. I have basics of public blockchains and token economics, but that's not my specialty. So if you on the call are hearing this and you have some specialty, please, please, please reach out to me and I'd love to have a chat with you. In terms of the other question, Matt, without the species, will you bring into the platform? Yeah, we wanna bring as many other species as possible. Now, initially we as rebounds, we're gonna use a certain kind of matrix, which is how can we leverage our learnings from the African forest elephant to the next species or probably the Savannah elephant, but also the gorillas, the great apes, for example, because for every elephant, you roughly get great, four great apes in terms of values, so that could be one. The second feature we look at is what is their level of threat, extinction threat for us to focus on. But as I said, for us, the real opportunity is to open up that marketplace. So it's not dependent on how fast we can grow to protect and we want others to be able to join in. How would you code the automated burning of the token? I'm afraid that's beyond my technical knowledge, so I'm afraid I can't really help you on that. So at the moment, the core platform is developed on our three quarter. The reason for that is, it's a very strong, stable platform. It's one used by financial institutions around the world. I don't want to go into a large financial institution or into a government and explain to them why we're using this or X or Y blockchain platform. I tell them I'm using Corda and also, well, most of the banks are using that and it helps move on the conversation much faster. But in terms of the crypto coin, no idea at this stage, because literally this is just a weak soul kind of thinking and we want to develop that. So if you have some views, please do share it with us. What's important is that we do not want a platform that has a high energy consumption cost for the obvious reasons. Yeah, so that's about it in terms of, I think the questions being asked. And yeah, I'm happy to take any other questions. Sorry, that was my daughter just coming into the room. He really, for this quick Q and A, we're almost at the hour. So if you have another question, you have the chance to ask it now. Otherwise, we're gonna meet in two weeks. And again, thank you, Wally, for this space. No, thank you. Looking forward to just following your work at Rebalance Earth to stay in touch and I'm always looking for opportunities for our two groups to collaborate in the future. Absolutely, absolutely. As I said, we chose Corda because it made sense for a number of reasons, but we could have chosen Hyperledger Fabric very easily and also it's a great platform, but we wanna be as much platform agnostic in the future. We wanna be able to interconnect with everyone. And Robin, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to present Rebouncers, this great group of people. Thank you all for your questions. It's been a real pleasure and please let's keep talking. Thanks, Wally. Everyone have a good evening, good morning, good day around the world. Bye-bye everyone, thank you. Thanks, Wally. Cheers.