 Y254 Imaji Y254 Konad Not as easy as you think my friends. Scaling the stairs while chewing gum will do without a problem. It's never too late to do the right thing. Tremendous progress achieved consensus on remaining issues and process so as to have non-divisi vote best option. Ruto is just Konad. There is nothing like change of strategy. If he has seen sense then he should go out there and support the BBI. We want to see him campaign for the BBI especially in regions we made believe that he made believe that BBI document was bad. Your response. No, no, check up. Is the DP Konad. You know, Winam Ruto is a very smart politician. And I want to quote him. He said he has a constitutional duty to support his boss. Yes. His boss is the president of the Republic of Kenya Honorable Urumugia Kenyatta, who is leading a constitutional reform movement with Rila Odinga. And therefore, if we to follow constitution to the latter, then William Ruto should be assisting the president in undertaking this initiative because he is also part of cabinet. And the theory of the president he oxides that authority under the assistance of the cabinet and himself. And to go back to what you have asked, is he Konad or not? I think he is conflicted because William Ruto is looking at one year to election. He is wondering there is a constitutional amendment that is coming. Do I put my energy into a constitutional amendment or do I wait for 2022 and contest? But fortunately if you ask me my personal opinion as Frediko Kango, the greatest beneficiary who must now support this constitutional amendment with all his might and will will be. He is William Ruto because he starts to benefit. He has the energy and this one can help. You ask a very good question. Are there going to be political formations? Yes. Every constitutional initiative that comes to this magnitude creates a political formation, especially if it is a curtain raiser to a national election. Now Honrabongujiru Ambugu said this and I quote, he was given two years to present his views but he didn't. He used the BBI to oppose his boss. Ruto had no choice but to join the winning team. And that is what I wonder, is either Ruto had no choice? You say that he is conflicted? My question to Gungiri would be, and this is not the position of Kenya Yota Lions personal opinion, is did we expect William Ruto to contradict his boss in written? Definitely you can do that on a political rally but you don't expect that to be done in written because essentially it would translate to what Kina Gungiri have been looking for in subordination. So in regards to his Twitter and his political position at the moment, as Freda said the DP benefits the most with the changes in BBI. And for him it is a time that he has to choose to support or not to support based on his political interests. One, if he supports, it stands to win and lose some supporters. Because there are some supporters who believe that he should strongly oppose and Kenyans would love to see a no and yes campaign. Now that would make him lose some supporters who would tend to say that he is a coward. On the other hand, if he says no and does not support it and gains the minimum amount of votes whether rigged or not, that would also taint his political ambition. Because if Ruto has created a perception that he is a strong politician with a mass following across the country, if therefore he goes on to say no and gets 3 million votes out of 10 million votes, that means his presidential ambition is seriously curtailed. So is it possible that Ruto, this change that we are seeing because his demands were met so the shift was easy. Remember at some point he said that post bombers some amendments were made to the document. Actually he gave 5 areas that he needed to be amended. Could that be a reason why we are seeing this? Let me tell you, William Ruto as I said is a very smart politician. But he has acknowledged that the Haslan Nation are now accommodated in the proposal to amend the constitution. And he quoted an article in the BBI Kusumemi B20, article 11 that says that there shall be an economic environment that provides equitable opportunity. And that in that we have pastoralism, agriculture and all other forms of livelihood as a way of sustainable development. So Haslan Nation is within that. And therefore in my view William Ruto acknowledges that the BBI process, the BBI Kusumemi amendment is an amendment that accommodates the people that support him most were the Haslan. So in my view, tomorrow is Wednesday. We are told that he is having a meeting tomorrow with some of his advisors and is in a co-op. I predict this and you can take it to the BBI. He will say that if that document meets the issues that we raised then we should support it. And he will not come out and say we are supporting but he will say we should support it. My friend Ram, the simple prediction that Fred is making would come to be true because what is the definition of consensus? It means what you want has been given to us. Can we meet at the middle? Now he gave five issues to be addressed. Three have been addressed. Only two are remaining. And those two are subjective because the office of the ombudsman is something that can be legislated in terms of process of selecting the ombudsman to make sure that it is not about tokenism. Sholei said this. I noticed that a lot of the proposals raised by the DP Agbomas have been incorporated which are very welcome. The Senate has also been given more powers. Now. Can I go first? I want that. By their fruits you will know them. What these people are sending, they are preparing ground for an endorsement. And you can read. I listened to Duwali. Duwali said that the pastoral issues have been addressed. Sholei has been a strong advocate of the two-thirds gender principle. In fact she has a bill in parliament. Here is a situation where there is a constitutional principle and the bill is attempting to address it. It has never been addressed. I don't think that Sholei and the team will reject this bill. I don't think so. I also agree because why I ask the definition of consensus is about us meeting at the middle. It would be so hypocritical for the deputy president to be claiming that he is looking for consensus. Yet in that middle of looking for consensus three of your five issues have been addressed. And you reject that document. You can never. They have no way. Now the political game here might be from the BBI side. But now. Let me substantiate that. Because at first they used to say there is nothing that would be changed in the document. Only words and even a comma. When those things were changed, the police commission was dropped. The party's representation in IBC was dropped. Now at what point now again would you go ahead and oppose? Because what you strongly because those were the two strong points. That even myself I had contentious. Now today Mawet this morning you had a pressure. Yes. At Sarena. Yes. What is the stand on the Kenya Youth Alliance just in a nutshell on this BBI and that pressure. What was it all about? There was a statement that was given out. I went through it. But your stand? As Kenya Youth Alliance we're seeing. We cannot endorse or be political in the entire process. Because we want to engage experts. Go through the document because we also want to engage the economic experts. We want to engage the legal experts. So that when we are moving around the country because from next week or the week thereafter we'll be doing consultative BBI forums across the country. As KYA. As KYA. Engaging the youth together with our experts that we will get. Because we want them to understand what is in it that they can get from this document. So do you support the BIA? And what is negative from it. Do you support the BIA? At the moment as KYA we are seeing. Let us be given time as youth to go through this document. So that we cannot disturb something that we don't understand. The time is elapsing. The time is elapsing but we will give you signatures. My signature will not give but I will proceed to vote. Because as I said the process has been rushed. The process has been rushed. Any changes that you make. It is cut years enough to give me time to internalize process and reflect upon them. Is the deadline of collection of the signatures? Yes. Deepiruto says that he is one of the scientists and he is one of the slow learners. And today as the chief hustler who is the chief slow learner, who is the chief scientist, he has come over and said we have reached consensus. So I would have expected that anyone who is unless they are other slower learners. But anyway. I am not saying that. Can I just interject? Can I just interject? When 2010 constitution was being amended, there were so many documents that were thrown across the country. For Kenyans to read because it was a government initiative. The same government is still driving the agenda. How many documents have you seen in the village? We have to be sincere with ourselves. We can pass the referendum. Was it David Lee who said this, no, not him. One of the political analysts said that at this time an era, this time an age for someone to say that they have not read the BBI report. It will be an insult because we are in a technological era where it is available on soft copy people have smartphones. You need more time. Who uses social media has a lot of bundles and leaves on WhatsApp where the document is circulating. No, I will come to you. I will come to you because he is strongly advocating for the same. Can he give us statistics of women youth within the remote areas of this country access those internet? In fact, there are subregions in this country where to get even a 3G. It's quite difficult. The government should not facilitate it's role and you will not put a signature on the document. At the moment we will not because the time has surpassed us. I would strongly advise KYA to read the document from the time it was launched in Kisi all the way to BOMAS. The reason why they should do that as young people, as youth is because what is the benefit of the young people in the BBI Costume Amendment process? Number one, the Kenyan people, the young people have had problems. Their challenges of unemployment, joblessness, lack of opportunity have now been centralized into a youth commission that is better than the National Youth Council because now they shall be the members and they shall run that. They shall propose legislative policy administrative issues to all counties and the national level so that the issues of the young people can be addressed. Number two, the majority of the young people who get the advantage to go to the university they pass, they come out looking for jobs and they are not able to pay the help. They have been given a moratorium of 4 years. I was learning today, the defaults of 1.5 million Kenyan young people they are not able to pay but now you are given a moratorium of 4 years. Number three, we have seen what development fund that is going all the way to the villages where the majority of the young people are creating what is called incubation hubs and provision of industrialization, water, food all those things. The beneficiaries of this industrialization process will be young people and therefore I would urge them so that you can now give your members an opportunity to benefit from its foods otherwise you shall be considered somebody who was sitting on the fence and when the foods come, you enjoy. Like I've seen now one of the leaders who was saying no the other time today he's saying we are protecting the question. Why? You'll have an actual response. Bring up those comments. These are on Facebook. Pauline Anasema you say that no one has been forced yet the chiefs are taking advantage of a youth financial state like I have friends of mine who are forced by the chief to sign up for BBI because they won't be paid their salary for cleaning services. I've seen that rumour going around the social media but this is someone who said it's an allegation. Let him proceed to Kiamburot. You know where Karura Forest is? Proceed to Kiamburot, report that. I mean that should not happen. With all due respect it should not happen. No one should be forced. I don't think there's anyone who's being... Kenyans, let's understand. The issue here is we agree with it or not. And even if people don't append their signatures they shall come at time at the referendum, the final public participation of a conscious process that you say yes or no. That time Kenyans will speak. Two-star Monyua, yes or yes? The third way alliance as I know of it and Fred is a friend of mine I've met him several years. I don't know if he knows me. But one thing that I'm cautious about is the way he's ravishing Kenyans. We should be cautious when we take sides. I don't know if what she's saying... You're not sitting on the fence. I'm not sitting on the fence. I'm saying we will engage as fast as possible our youth across the country to help them and also so that they can guide us arrive at an informed and opinionated decision. And this? Yes, for this... They are being forced. They are being forced. In our statement, we acknowledge youth are vulnerable and the government might take or any other political persuasion of the BBI. Do you believe this allegation? I cannot rubbish it. It is a social allegation. I like the fact that it is an allegation. It takes its place. I don't have evidence. I don't have evidence. But he doesn't have evidence to the contrary. I'm saying if it is indeed happening, unfortunately, it should never happen. Let's see what people say. As they are using money with BBI and also wasting money, they should use the money to care for doctors and COVID-19 patients. I cannot vote yes or no because in some cases it's good but I have not read. Let's keep other comments coming in. That's an admission. Self admission that he has not read. So he can't come in. BBI is used to as a political bridge in 2022. That's why I resist BBI. Generally, Kelonzo, well-tuned in representing 3560 Namgotia Arif, Yangu Masi, Kwee, Nakiwa Kikuyu, Prince Jupiter Yes to BBI. Saddam Solomon, Baba Lao. Rajuaji, this is a youth station. You know Raman, if you listen to most of these people, I appreciate their feedback, I appreciate their comment. I want to believe most of them are young people who are watching this show. It's very admirable. But I want to encourage them. If we don't read this document, we shall not know what they are using. If we don't read this document, we shall not make an informed decision. But as somebody who has read it and a young person, I want to persuade them that this document stands a chance to benefit young people more than stand a chance to benefit the old because of the issues that I have enumerated and I ask them even if you don't agree with them, even if you don't agree with it, read it first. Using his own words, thank you for agreeing with Kenya Youth Alliance. We are saying, read the document and understand it before we make a decision. Make a decision from an informed perspective and don't allow any politician, including Fred to be said for you. Don't allow them. Let me bring for yourself, let me touch on on you Fred, let me come to you. Because now at least I have touched on KYA, let me touch on third way alliance. Go ahead, absolutely. The Pungusamizigo Bill had proposed a raft of changes including having the president 21 in total. We were narrowed down to 15 in the cultural amendment. One of them was that the president was to serve a single seven year term. That was Pungusamizigo 1. Pungusamizigo 2, it's not there. It's not there. But one thing that was there was reduction in the number of representations. Now, does this BBI promote the proposals that were there in the Pungusamizigo? BBI has adopted nine out of the 15 issues that we raised in Pungusamizigo. And I'll tell you, we were the first political party that initiated Pungusamizigo and said we must now measure development from bottoms up. And today BBI has adopted what development fund we say in it. That means ensuring the provision of the socio-economic rights in article 43 now shall start from the world level. They shall be measured. Number two, we propose strengthening of the evolution. BBI is saying let us increase the funds that is going to the counties to at least 35 percent. Read Pungusamizigo. It is there. BBI says let us ensure that we end the historic injustice against women by ensuring that we achieve the 2,000th gender principle. You see the same? BBI is saying the same. BBI said let us strengthen our institutions, judiciary, IBC, parliament. Today all those things are been factored in. I can dare say here today, constitutional amendment are negotiated processes. And therefore we are not having a monopoly of knowledge but we can work together where our ideas converge. We might not agree with everything in that document. But for the fact that there are certain issues that were endorsed by 1.2 million Kenyans strengthening the evolution, strengthening parliament, judiciary, fighting theft of public money which BBI is today saying let us expedite trial, prosecution and you know hearing of these economic crimes I mean really Kenyans must now understand that there is an attempt to make us go to the other side which is greener. You mentioned that, you mentioned the 35 percent and that is good. Honorable Owen Bayer, member parliament for Kilifinoth he said this and I quote if we are going to have a parliament with 650 MPs then there is no meaningful representation Kenyans 35 percent Where is he getting the 600? Let me finish with that. The 35 percent to count is will not make any sense if the horizontal formula for distribution is against us. Can I ask him in conjunction with that because in any initiative there is a co-objective then other objectives. Punguza Mizigo even the name itself Punguza reduced the weight it is derived from reduce the burden. And in their own proposal they were proposing we go back to 290 210 Punguza Mizigo We said 194 194 they were saying we slush back The current proposal is we increase are we saying that you are forgoing your very main objective and agreeing with that one which contradicts yourself is it I am giving you the right to respond in connection to that if the whole idea was reduce the burden does the BBI reduce the burden. The question is where is the greatest burden and I want to start from there. The greatest burden in this country is the economic burden the economic burden to the extent that in the villages women walk 1000 kilometers looking for water women walk 100 kilometers looking for health care women walk 100 kilometers children looking for schools that is the economic burden and that's why we say it in Punguza in that burden we must take services closer to the people by increasing the country allocation to at least 35 and getting the world development fund so that we start to measure development now and you feel the representation doesn't affect wait I'm coming to representation the other burden is the burden of corruption now we have seen this country lose a third of its budget to theft BBI and Punguza Musikutu they are saying let us expedite the processes of trial and prosecution so that these cases can end faster and also punish severely the things of public money that is lower in the budget let's go to representation the constitution amendment also helps implementation the reason why we have never achieved to comply with the principle of fair representation that is based on equality vote is because our population keeps going up previously we used to say we are 47 million today we are 45 million today we are 47 million plus how do you represent a section of people that is 500 with only one member parliament 100 million with the same person who has seen the same but represent 43,000 people it is not fair the constitution of Kenya in 1981 says that there must be fair representation it is a constitutional principle and therefore the issue is not in representation you can have many thousand representatives but cap their salary if you read the BBI they have amended article 230 but now harmonizes the number of legislators affects the amount of people but to what extent is it greater than the 450 billion that we lose as a country every election cycle I am putting one amount Ram I don't want to argue that corruption do not swell our country actually it is the greatest take away of Kenyan money but I want to be on record saying that indeed adding MPs would have an impact on our current wage bill explain to me like a three year old okay if you are paying an MP 50 million 100 million paya an extra 100 let me finish does the constitution put the wage that you pay MP but I wanted to make this I wanted to make this point Ram that why what would be the impact of all these constitutional amendments if the current constitution is not being implemented at the moment we are talking of 15% yet even as we speak the counties have not received the entire of that money now you are talking of 35% will that not increase our taxation now I want us to just touch on just one final thing briefly because I know where we touched on can take us the whole night because I remember when you are proposing the Pumusamizigo I hosted you once and you gave me calculations about how much MPs are you calculated on and I can tell you but as politicians as politicians they are allowed to swallow their wans let's touch on the no campaigners do you think that they will be able to convince Kenyans so that they can be able to reject this BBI Ram you want my honest opinion? Yes honestly give us your stand my honest opinion about they purported no campaigners they are non-status this is an issue that Kenyans have raised Kenyans have had a consensus and they have said we want more money to the villages to the counties we want the issue of two thirds gender we want fair representation based on the country of vote we want to strengthen judiciary we want to end corruption and then you come between them and stop corruption please please these are jokes let's give Kenyans an opportunity to effect the constitution and allow its implementation to be easy by amending the gaps that we have seen has a challenge do they no campaigners have a chance? they are non-status I would argue that with the current shift of the deputy president to a yes camp we are adding to a non-contested referendum even if maybe at that time as Kenya youth alliance we would reach a consensus and say that we are not supporting or we are supporting the no camp will really have a long way to go now bring up this Shil and Jerry are saying I reject BBI I am surprised that the Pungusamizigu guy Mr Okango that he wants to add Mizigo to hasla nation of prime minister two deputies that is just a state capture of the big five tribes so sad that the wage bill will be double we are not in a war I reject correction the prime minister shall be a member of parliament who is getting a monument from a member being a member of parliament the cabinet shall be mixed in fact the correction amendment says may the president might decide all of them are members of parliament so they only earn from them being a member of parliament number two the deputy pms shall be cabinet members and therefore there is no way that people start arguing that that executive is expanding to an extent that now they are earning more and this is why we must tell kenyans don't listen to what the politicians are lying about out there listen to this document and read it and listen to the people that are telling the truth and I'm telling the truth that that clause provides that the deputy pms pms shall be member of parliament the deputy pms shall be cabinet so they only earn one a monument and the correction today in article 77 says that you shall not earn more than what you are earning jesire as YKA Kenyans youth alliance what we would focus on is engaging consultants and finance guys to understand the ramification of such issues because I cannot speak from a political angle and say they don't affect because they must affect even if it is 1% even if it's 1% and that 1% matters now I want us to bring a close to this conversation tonight thank you very much for your time and Konelea jesire it has been a pleasure having you tonight I wonder what is happening in Tadwe alliance even we are really in Tadwe alliance we are very democratic we are progressive and that's what we believe in change Tadwe alliance was meant to bridge the gap between two streams and Konelea stand we don't have a stand by January or February we will give you another stand Tadwe alliance submit the submissions to BBI 10th March for the second process but not the first process the first process you can remember it has been a pleasure having you for me to measure but you tune in again next week as from 8pm every Tuesday my name is Ram Magukot that brings us to the end of this conversation God bless you the stand continues next week on Tuesday have a good night