 The former president of the Senate Bukala-Saraqi declares his intention to run for president in 2023. However, is he up to the task? And of course we will be discussing the various challenges faced by the Akiti state chapter of the all-progressive Congress in its recently concluded primaries. This is Plus Politics. I am Meri Annakumar. The former president of the Senate Bukala-Saraqi recently declared his intention to run for president in 2023 on the tickets of the People's Democratic Party PDP. Saraqi vowed to ensure that all Nigerians have a greater sense of what it means to be Nigerian if allowed to rule the country. This is, however, not the first time he is declaring his interest to compete for the presidential sit as he had expressed similar intentions in 2019. While speaking on the challenges he faced when he was president of the Eighth Assembly, he said the National Assembly under him did not carry favour from the executive because he stood for the independence of the National Assembly. Well, joining us is Ilemona Onnoja. He is the special assistant to Dr. Bukala-Saraqi and he joins us now. Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Onnoja. Thank you very much for having me. Great. So, let's start with, I mean, we already in the opening, I have said that he's not a newcomer to this contest. But then, of course, everybody would ask as a first question, why does your principal want to be president? I think that's a very straightforward answer. He wants to become president because he has the requirements, the contents, the character, the capacity of Nigerians and Nigeria develop a Nigeria of our dreams, the sort of Nigeria that we all want for. We all wish for. I think it's very straightforward. Over the years, over the course of a very glowing political career that's span of 20 years, he's developed the sort of advisory executive legislative and then head of legislative experience that helps give him a world view, that gives him an adequate understanding of how, of the many challenges our country faces, how to overcome these challenges, where the... Mr. Onnoja, are you still there? Can you hear me? Okay, we lost you for a second. Yes, go ahead. He has the sort of experience that helps him know how to overcome the challenges that face our country, where to get the resources to overcome these challenges are, how to...the legislative framework that is required, the implementation that is required to give impetus to that legislative framework and so on. So it's a question of competence and capacity. And he's demonstrated over the course of his career, both in the public and the private sector, that he has that competence and that capacity. So, of course. Now, as spoken to many people who have, in time past, said they wanted to be president of this country, and Nigeria is a very unique country. And of course, that is because of the many problems that we have, the fact that we are diverse people and we have different problems, especially in 2021, why would anybody want to be the president of Nigeria? It's a daunting task if you ask me. But then every single person you talk to who wants to be president says, oh, I want to change the fortunes of Nigerians. And in 2015, we saw a lot of people throw their hats in the ring and say, we want to be president, we want to change the future and the fortunes of Nigeria. But here we are, I mean, almost seven plus years down the line. That has not been the case. What exactly is he going to do differently that should make anybody even look in his direction? That's a really impressive question. The first thing that makes me, and sometimes, you know, the one, a lot of people in my generation think of that question. I mean, why would anybody want to be president? That's the sometimes the belief that Nigeria is a hopeless case and that things will not change. But the reality is that Nigeria is not a hopeless case. Nigeria can change. What Nigeria requires to change is people who have a quality of vision, who have competence of ability, who have content of character to apply themselves to build the systems that we require to change Nigeria. Over the years, I agree with you that we hear that lot. And we heard that a lot in 2015. Some people who came and, well, changed the promises that they made to change. But that said, we have to apply ourselves. We don't have another country. We don't have where else to go. While some people may think that they can relocate and everything, the bulk of us don't have where else to go. What that does is that it leaves us with an obligation to stay behind and to change our country for the better. It is an objective to which we must remain committed, no matter what the situation or the circumstances are. Having said that, what does he think he will do differently? Well, different from everything that's happened in the last seven years. One, the stand-up for the Nigerian people, which he did during his tenure as president of the Senate, the stand-up for the Nigerian people. And he will tell people, and he will show strength and skill, capacity. Two, he will be very open, he'll be transparent. Three, he'll be committed, he'll be empathetic. Four, he'll be a bridge between the young and the old. Five, he'll be a bridge between the North and the South, bringing all our people back together, rather than being a divisive figure. Six, he will be a bridge between conservatism and liberalism. And liberalism to ensure that all our people are protected. We have an application of both worlds. Seven, oh my God, he's a competent person in the economy. Our economy needs a critical overall. There's a lot of things that he will do differently. Particularly different from the last seven years that we have seen that have been characterised by pain and suffering and sorrow. No, that's not the way we're going to go. The color is our key. And those of us in this team have been putting together plans to ensure that we take power back to where it belongs with the Nigerian people. We put our hands to work. We put our young people to work. We protect our old people. We make our farms and our industries productive. We build value in our currency. We ensure productivity of our people. We take into consideration the character of our people, the creativity of our people. And we seek to apply that creativity. There's a lot that we intend to do differently. And I believe that over the course of the campaign period we'll be communicating with Nigerian people very well-detailed plans of what the intentions are, where the money will come to fund those intentions and the effects it will have on the lives of everyday Nigerians. Interesting. You talk about a Nigerian or your principle as someone who's going to be a bridge builder. I beg your pardon. Tom Twister. Thank you. Yes. It's interesting that you said that. Now the country is at a point where the south is pushing for a southern presidential ticket. The southern governors had said that people in the south should not vote for anybody who is not from the south. They should not, in other words, don't vote for anybody coming from the northern region. And then of course it brings that issue of zoning into question. I'm going to get to the point where I ask you where you stand on that and where your principle stands on it, knowing that he's also representing the north. But this is a conversation that is ongoing. Where does your principle stand on it and then where do you stand on it? Being that a lot of people, including the elder statesman, Klack, who has also said, look, step down and let southness run for this ticket. I think that your opinion is, do we want a president in Nigeria? Do we want a southern president or do we want a Nigerian president? I think that's the president. Are you implying that a southern president is not a Nigerian president? No, but I'm not implying that. That's not what I'm implying. What I'm implying is that making the origins of the president the primary consideration as opposed to competence and character and ability, it makes me wonder, we have done things differently. We've done things in a particular way for so long. It hasn't always worked for us, hasn't it? The question is, here now, facing an existential crisis with two wars, right? Two wars against terror. One in the northwest, one in the northeast. And a practical invasion of the north-central part of the country by an armed militia. An agitation for secession in the southeast. An agitation for secession in the southwest. For self-actualization, as you will so call it. That's an existential crisis. Really, it's our focus on the origin of who our next president should be. We have the worst unemployment rates in our country's history at 33%. We have food inflation at more than 20%. Really, origins of our president is what the focus should be. We have under-employment at astronomical levels. We have youth unemployment at topping 50%. Our farms are unsafe. We have a failing healthcare system. Really, I don't know that zoning is the fundamental that we should be looking at in what our next president should be. I don't know that it is. I'm speaking for myself now as a Nigerian citizen, as I have a right to, that I don't think that it should be. I know that my principal has spoken up for where he says that zoning is a consideration, but it cannot be the only consideration. And I agree. Now, if we're going to speak about this zoning, people speak about this thing and talk about equity and justice. But where is the justice and the equity in this argument? And I'll make the argument. In the history of our political party, first and foremost, the PDP, four regions, four geopolitical regions have had the opportunity of producing a president, a vice president, or a presidential candidate. Four. They are the Southwest, former president of Lucia Gwombasanjo, the South-South, former vice president and then president Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, the Southeast has been, no, the Northwest, former president Maria Aragwa, the Northeast produced vice president Atukua Baka and presidential candidates in 2019 general elections. Right? Four. Only two parts, only two regions in this country have never produced a presidential candidate on the platform of our party. They're the North Central and the Southeast. Only one of these regions has never produced a vice presidential candidate or a presidential candidate on the platform of our party, the PDP, that's the North Central. Only one of these regions has never produced a vice presidential candidate or presidential candidate in the history of our country. The question is if we're going to speak to zoning as a foundation for equity and justice, why shouldn't North Central produce a presidential candidate? Why shouldn't it? But that's not my core argument. My core argument is that in the face of the challenges that we face, that we have to overcome as a country, things that make you wonder will we have a country by the next presidential election in 2027 zoning, the languages we speak, the part of the country you're from, the God you worship cannot be the fundamentals for choosing who our next president should be. What that has to be is competence, is character. It's the ability to rebuild our economy. It's the ability to make our old people safe and to provide them health care. It's the ability to provide education for our young people. It's the ability to provide jobs for our young people. That's what the fundamentals should be. Now, am I saying these can only be found in the North? No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, don't have to leave the conversation of zoning alone, put competence, put people, no matter where they're from, put them there and measure. Should we choose this person or not choose this person on the basis of what he has shown us he can do over the past and what he's promising to do in the future? That's what I'm advocating. Final thing, final thing, final thing. I'm particularly committed to my principles, because of those candidature. Because of that, while he was president of the Senate, he showed an ability to bring people to a table, to have a conversation about what we want to put into the country and what we want to get out of it. He showed the ability, the skill, the dexterity to be able to do that in spite of significant odds. In 2023, post-2023, we're going to need a president, we need a president that can help us rebuild our commitments to Nigeria, that can help us meet with a conversation about what are we putting into the country and what are we getting out of it. That can help us have that conversation about a commitment to a Nigeria of our dreams that doesn't exist at the moment. Okay, interesting. I just want to back-paddle a bit, because you made a lot of points and I want to take you on some. You talked about the fact that he's done a lot, he's built a certain persona that in fact you have painted a picture of him as the kind of person that we need, but then you pointed out the issues that we're facing as a country today and you're saying that that's not the Nigeria that we want. Yes. But he's been the Senate president. He has been. He has also been a governor. He's been in government for a while. What did he do to prevent those odds that we're facing today, the issues of ethnic divisions? The reason why we have these non-state actors and these secessionists that you have made mention of is because of the lapse of judgment on the part of our leaders being, he being part of those leaders. And so sitting down there and having this conversation also shows that your principle must have somewhat been complicit and played a part in the problems that we're facing today. Or am I wrong? I think you're wrong. Okay. Go ahead and explain. What do you want me to talk about? In this time as senior advisor to the president of Lushakon Obasanjo project, let me start from there, which is the youngest position he ever held in government. As senior advisor, a special advisor to president of Lushakon Obasanjo on projects, he set out the framework for the passing of the Fiscal Responsibilities Act, which is supposed to be an act that guides our budgeting process. Is the law, is the regulation that we use, the primary regulation for our budgeting process to this day. He did that in the year 2000. 22 years later, we still rely on the work that was done by a special advisor to the president. What we have there is the executive always complying with the provisions of the Fiscal Responsibilities Act. I can move on. As Governor of Kwa, which example should I use? Is it the Atheist School in Elorim? Is it upgrade of infrastructure in Kwa state? Is it the redesign of what commercial farming should be? As president of the Senate, no, before we go to president of the Senate, as senator representing Kwa Central Central District, was he not the person who moved the motion that, who moved the motion for the investigation of the FOIA subsidy regime and thereby blowing open one of the biggest corruption scandals in this country that persists to this day? Was he not the person? Should I give you an example as president of the Senate? Let the Senate has passed most number of bills that have treated the most number of motions that stood between the Buhari administration and the Mao administration of Nigeria for at least four years. He's shown over the course of his character, of his career, the ability to take unpopular decisions, unpopular with Nigerian public, unpopular with his political parties, but which always, at all times, stand for the best interests of Nigerian people. It's a simple thing. There's a plethora of evidence over the course of his career that has shown his ability to push forward the sort of executive, the sort of legislative reforms that we require to run our country. Have those reforms that you are making mention of, because it's one thing to say, oh, we've passed the most bills, how have those bills transformed the life of the average Nigerian, or even the processes that lead to the transformation of the life of the average Nigerian, because here we are having the same conversation. And you're pointing to stuff that he did, fine and dandy, but how has it translated to bettering the lot of the average Nigerian in 2021, if this is some legacy that we need to point to? I can give you one example. One of the biggest issues now that we've had to deal with, right, for the last two years has been police reform, right? Our reform is the police. That's a whole kettle of fish in its own. How reformed is the police? We hear about these reforms on paper, but in reality, is the police in Nigeria really reformed? Let me make the point. One, police brutality to deal with citizen institution relations that ensure that we have a more responsive citizenry to the institution that we already distrust and do not like. On account of police brutality, the National Assembly led to the 8th Assembly did the very speedy passage of the anti-torture act to criminalize to define what torture is to criminalize it and to punish it. Never done in our Nigerian history. The 8th Assembly led the debate for the reform of the police act. There hadn't been reformed for what, 60 years? There hadn't been amended for what, 60 years? President Guayri refused to sign the amendments to that act. As a legislator, he's done his job. At all times what we must hold him to is his job. Has he done his job as a legislator? That's two. Let me give you another example with healthcare. As president of the Senate, he insisted that they must pass that stipulation, that constitutional provision that requires that 1% of the Consolidated Revenue Fund is dedicated to healthcare. 1% of the Consolidated Revenue Fund is dedicated year on year to healthcare, to primary healthcare. Now, if we did, if we fixed primary healthcare, and there's a plethora of oppositions from the experts on this, that if we fixed primary healthcare, we would reduce Nigeria's healthcare, systemic healthcare issue by almost half. It's not our fault if the executive refuses to implement it. As a legislator, he's done his job. Let's go to the economy. The Senate under him, past what must have been 11 bills that were all aimed at revamping our economy and making sure that critical sectors of our economy work that we're able to find the investment that we need to turn it over, that we're able to find the structures that we need to help hold our economy up, make it easier to register companies, make it easier to give more security to give more security to investors. As a legislator, it's not his fault if the executive refuses to sign those bills or if they do not implement after signing it, is it? What we must do at all times is hold him responsible for the outcomes, for the job he does per time. Well, I think that we're having connection issues, Mr Naja. If you can hear me, can you hear me? Can you hear me, Mr Naja, because I think we lost you for a second. Mr Naja, can you hear me? I can hear you clearly. Okay, go ahead. Yes, we lost you for a second. Yes. So I'm saying, I'm responsible for the outcomes related to the job he is doing per time and not for the failures of another arm of government. If anything, one thing that we must be grateful for is that under Dr Golas Araki, the 8th Senate stood up to the failures of the 19th arm of the executive. We must be grateful for that. I'll give you another example. Never before done, when every time the executive came to the 8th Senate to say give us an approval for a loan, he always said, the 8th Senate always said show us how that money is going to be sent, show us documents relating to that loan, evidence for the application of back funding, show us how we are going to be paid and show us documents, show us a plan from taking the debt to repaying the debt, show us a plan. And on 11 occasions, the executive refused to do so. We're seeing the way loans are being approved, really nearly, on the same day that the application for the loan is coming. Well, let me not go further in pink. I want us to move away from that topic. I mean, you continuously have harped on the person, which is great because you are trying to sell him as a brand or a person who is fit for that office. But then, again, I want to go back to 2015 where a person was sold to us as a product, a no-nonsense general. And they kept harping on the personality and their capabilities. Do you not think that Nigerians are a product and the packaging and the advertising that you political I don't know handlers are selling to the average Nigerian person? Why should we even be looking at these personalities anymore? Being that we put our trust in our person. And here we are. I mean, you and I can attest to the fact that we're where we are not because this is where we expect it to be. Why should we be looking at a person that this other product that you're trying to sell to us with due respect to the senator? Why should we believe that this person will help us go where we want to go? Because for a number of reasons. One, because we realize that no singular person can fix Nigeria. It will require to make our institutions work. It will require to make our institutions work. What we're saying is that let us elect a president that will allow our institutions work. Let us elect a president that will carry the Nigerian people along, that will communicate with them, that will listen to them. That's what we're saying. We're not saying that we're an infallible person. No, we're saying that we want to believe in the ability of our institutions to function, of our countries, and we're saying let's have a president that is, that steps out of their way and allows them to do their jobs. Let's have a president that tells the countries, these are my fans, this is what I plan to do. This is how I intend to do it. This is where I need your buying. This is where we'll get the money to do it. These are the outcomes by which to measure me. We don't want a president that shuts down conversation, that shuts down debate. We want a president that contributes to debate, that encourages debate, that listens even to the youngest of people. As long as you're good enough, you're old enough. That's what we want, and that's what we're saying that Dr Bukalasarevky represents. In 2015, we had a president that made those promises, but that was very quick to break them. That was very quick to show that he did not, he wasn't committed to that. Even to the people who helped him become president. There was a lot of deception. There was a lot of double-facedness for a person who was only committed to becoming president to enjoy the perks of office and the benefits that it brings. This is not what we're saying to people at this time. We're saying Nigeria will require rescuing. As much as that has become one of those phrases that we hear repeatedly over the years, Nigeria does require rescuing. But it's not something that the president is going to come and do and wave a magic wand. It's something that all of us have to be committed at all times. Illuminal Naja is the senior special assistant to Dr Bukalasarevky and we thank you so much for speaking with us. It was a pleasure talking to you, Maryann and talking to Naina. Thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break and now when we return, we'll be discussing the akiti stage APC and its primaries, the outcome of the inside of the akiti. And of course we will be joined by our guest in just a minute to stay with us.