 the subscription buckly with another MVP buzz chat interview. And I'm here talking with David. Hey, hello. Hello, hello. Nice to meet you all. So what, for folks that don't know who you are, where you are, what you do, why don't you give us that introduction? Yeah, sure. So my name is David Zhukovsky. And as my name is suggesting, I am from Poland. I'm living currently in the north part of Poland, really close to the Baltic Sea in the Tri-City area, close to the Gdańsk city. And it is really, really nice and quite popular for the European tourists. And I would recommend that place to visit. It is nice, I would say. And for me, from the technical perspective, let's say, I'm active in the IT world for almost 12 years, ish. And my background is that I didn't finish the IT studies. I started in the management. And by the pure accident, I landed in the IT world as initially the support person. So I was doing the second, third line. And that is where I started to touch the technology. And initially, I was playing with the SharePoint. That was my, like, the first Microsoft really huge platform. And I was learning, you know, the classic workflows 2010, 2013, InfoPath. And then, with that knowledge, I started to do some business process automations, digitalizations. Along the lines, I was also doing a couple of the projects with the K2 Blackbird, the version in cloud. But I don't mention that too often. It was not so good. Well, that's all they've all been acquired now. Anyway, it's all part of the Nintex. And yeah, I was also doing the Nintex, a couple of the projects. But in the end, I meet the power platform. And shifting from the SharePoint person, I was focusing more and more on the power platform, because it was like two and a half, maybe three years ago, when I first touched that technology, I felt that it is having a lot of potential, because of this connectivity between the various services. And I knew that there is tons of the legacy stuff connected with the workflows, InfoPaths, or even some access databases. So I knew that there would be a huge need in the market. And when I was focusing on that or trying to focus, my company was not so into that. But I managed to convince one huge client that the power platform is where to go. It was so painful project. But I learned so much. So since then, I am focusing on the power platform. And I think a year and a half ago, just before the whole preparation for the COVID started, I thought to myself that I need to do something, because I was constantly feeling the gap, the need to speak with the technical people and to share the knowledge. Because sometimes when I was googling for hours for some materials, I felt that it is not covered from the A to Z. And I wanted to, you know, at least for some people to not do that in this hard way, but to share the knowledge. And with that, I started the preparation to write my first articles. It was quite painful. So I have my own blog. And this is the 365corner.pl. Though it is PL, it is all in English. So I'm trying to write the blog. And along the lines, I meet a couple of active people in Poland. And they convinced me that I should give it a try in speaking at the conference, because they felt that I know the stuff or two. And since then, it was like my first and the last in-person conference. But since then, I was participating in quite a lot of conferences across the whole globe. Because during the COVID, it was a huge opportunity for me to travel almost everywhere in the world. So I was trying to speak as many and where I can. Well, let me ask you just interesting couple of points that you made me one. So about the conference and your first time speaking, because I know that that is a really difficult thing for a lot of people to do. And I was actually just speaking to another brand new MVP, Melissa Houghton, who's down in Melbourne, Australia, about how she's been involved with a group that does like to identify new upcoming speakers and train them on the process, like speaking itself. You know, so all different skills levels, but have that common need to know like how to take the fear out of presenting live. Did you get any of that kind of training? Is that you had other experience with the public speaking? What was that like for you? Yeah, so I didn't have such a training. I think this is in general the the awesome idea that people are doing something like that. Because for many people, it is so stressful that they have the knowledge and the tons of the knowledge. But when it is the moment when you need to speak, interact, then they are just closing themselves. So it is quite hard. But I would say that my journey started a year ago because I was dancing and I'm still keeping dancing the break dancing, b-boying. So you know, it will be part of the Olympics at the Paris 2024. So I'm still active dancer. And that experience with all of these events, competitions, and you know that you need to face the opponents. And in many cases, this opponent is stronger than you. And you need to, you know, break yourself from the fear to opposite or to dance against him. It helped me a lot. So when I was speaking and looking at the people, it was a little bit like part of the b-boy exchange. And I was so used to that, that I had a lot of fun really. I hope that everyone will have such an experience like I did because my first event, it was great. Just great. So is it your guidance that when you're speaking live, you focus on one person as the audience as that they're your opponent? No, I'm just convinced that you should catch the contact with as many people as you can. So to interest them and to catch their attention. And if you are starting to get in some sense the feedback, because the eyes and our facial expression can say us a lot, then you know if your session is going into a good way or your set is just bad. Well, one thing that I always recommend to people that are just starting out too is that in your own work group, or if you're working, if you're an independent, you're a shy person and introvert, but and working from home, find some friends that will be on the line and give the presentation to them, walk through that and record it and go through that experience a couple different times that you have somebody who can provide real-time interaction. And it is often, especially with us doing so much online, especially the last year, year and a half. It's so much, it's different when there is a live audience versus you just recording yourself. But if you do that and that recording, I find that I speak more naturally when I have even one other person on the line that can participate and ask questions than if I'm just recording something with just myself. Yes. So for sure, you touched the two aspects that for my first session, I was really prepared hardcore because I had a couple of the checks with my manager. And then I had the dry run with my whole team. They gave me the awesome feedback, which I incorporated in my presentation. So at the day of the conference, I was so ready. I was so prepared that everyone were like, you know, polishing the presentation, checking the laptops. And I was like, only waiting for the moment when I can start. And secondly, the recordings and lack of the interaction with people, it was really hard for me because the first session where I didn't hit any interaction, I ended up too quick. I rushed the things because I was a little bit scared that there is no reaction. So I didn't know what people are thinking. And the fact that it gave me such a hard lesson after it, I was much more prepared that I knew that I can slow down. And it is not dependent on the reaction of the people. I think it's also hard experience. Yeah, it definitely is. Well, one other thing just interesting that you brought up in your history is working as in the non-technical space and then kind of back in there. And so it's actually, it's not surprising to see somebody that's like you're, so you're a brand new just a month and a half into the MVP program within the business application side of things. But generally, I mean, there's a lot of technical people that have that expertise. But you see a lot of people that come from the business side into this technical arena. I think this is a, and maybe you have some advice for people that don't think that they're technical enough to go and speak on some of these topics, even though a lot of these people that are in these roles, like I come from a project management background. So my experience with technology was very much kind of a methodology approach, a framework to delivering of projects. And so I would bring that experience where somebody who was a developer who's very technical would have on the same technology a completely different perspective, what they would share around that and advice for that technology. So I would think that somebody that is a coder, an engineer, talking about business applications and building might be very different from somebody that started as a technical writer, business analyst, found their way into power platform. It maybe is focused more on the, not that a developer can't be focused on the customer experience, but again, on the business end versus the technical end of things. So what's your experience with that? Yes. So I, to be honest with my background, I struggled for a long time because I felt that not knowing about the databases or coding is like what I'm doing here constantly. That was my question for the first couple of years. But after so long time and after I experienced so many projects, and now I think that my whole experience as the package is my advantage that I don't know exactly, you know, straight up coding, because like you were saying, it is a different perspective. And I am speaking with many people and I'm thinking that with the power platform and all of the capabilities, the key is the understanding of the process. So if you are focusing on the business value, which you will deliver with your solution, it's not important if you are like a first line worker or if you are a teacher in the school, or if you are just a county or I don't know if you are doing totally different stuff. But you are the expert in this area in the process. And by being a little bit stubborn and allow yourself to fail a lot of times, you will get to the awesome result, which technically maybe not perfect like a person who can code the stuff, but it will be much closer to the business value, which is important and which is like a lens for you while you're doing the work. So in the case of the power platform, I would say to people that just go for it. It can be hard, but it will be much easier than the development. And it will give you so much satisfaction in the end that one, you learn a lot, you increase your chance for a better future, and you resolve potential challenges connected with your needs, with your business value. And you can support your team with what you just did because most likely some tasks, repetitive actions can be shared across the team. So you are becoming like a superhero in your company. So why not to try? Right. Well, and that's the other thing is not be afraid that, hey, that you, there are some great bloggers, some great MVPs that are out there that provide excellent content, but not be shy to share your perspective on that same topic, your experiences with that because I had this argument years ago with a with another fellow MVP who was arguing, it was very technical, was arguing that this topic had been written about and covered by a couple of these experts leading voices out in the community and that why would anybody waste their time writing about speaking on where like the answer was provided for this. And my response to that is like, well, that's from a tech not maybe true from a technical and architecture standpoint, but the business application and the consequences of that and the planning needed before you get to the solution and the effects afterwards for onboarding for adoption and engagement and which could actually change the design, the architecture of the product. If you're not looking at what comes before what goes after all those things, but perspectives based on industry, perspectives based on business unit users versus partners versus within the supply chain, people that are actually working with this component, all of those different perspectives write about those things, point to that article, that leading article, those other experts, but there's still plenty to go and share. And then even if what you wrote were a complete overlap to something else that existed out there, I'm not talking about plagiarizing content. But if you're essentially writing about the same thing, the chances of people that are finding this content, they may find you and your content because of your network that may never find that other even they could search and you might that article might appear on the 50th page of Google results. Whereas because of their connection and your network might show up within there. So I guess this is my long winded answer or guidance on don't be shy, get out there and share your experience, that there's always room for more content, more expertise, more perspectives. Yeah, I think I even have one, my story from my blogging which can connect to that. I thought about quite technical and fancy a way to handle one bit in the Power Automate. So the try catch with the do until and I thought that if I will start from presenting this try catch without saying what is the do until it will be wrong. And I started to Google to check like to refer people to an expert who was explaining what is happening in that action because it is not so easy for a beginner. And it occurs that there is not a lot about that. So I decided to write first full explanation of the do until for people to understand that that action and then move to this more technical, more pleasant for me writing. But in the end, this simple article about one action is I think one of my most successful articles ever. So this is really a matter of the perspective because sometimes when you are so deep in your run, in your daily work, you will not think about a person who is starting the whole journey. And this is again connecting to the people which are a little bit afraid to start. A lot of around you, maybe at the same point, and the lesson limits which you have, they will be giving them a tons of the value. So you even should to share because that will increase the velocity of the learning in your whole group. Agreed. So I have just kind of to that point too is that there's another thing that people that you and I, we're years within this space and doing what we do will have a certain perspective on it. And to be honest, there's some topics that I've presented on three, four years ago, which are still valid content out there people want to hear about. I've done it so many times, I'm not interested personally in doing that topic anymore. I want to move on to new things and continue to grow and develop and stuff. You know, but there's still that need for that more introductory content. And one of the things that I did, that's why I have four adult children. And I've tried, I've pleaded with all four of them in their careers. And two of them are often careers, they're past their school and two of them are still in university. But I've said, along your path, whether it's business or technical, start writing about it, blogging about it. I said, you won't have any readers now, but as you develop that content on your learning pathway, like you're going to start to develop, you're going to find people that need those introductory steps as you're learning about that. So there are some writers that are out there, some, some experts in the community who have started to do that. They're like, Hey, I'm brand new. I'm looking at the power platform. What is this thing? I'm going to go and just start figuring it out. And so they kind of provide a walkthrough of their experience from the very beginning. And there's tremendous value in providing that kind of content, even though you're not yet an expert on that technology. Yeah, yeah. This is like allowing ourselves to fail or to make a mistake. It's really crucial. As you know, we are living where we are living in this world. I am feeling that people are more and more afraid to show that they are making a mistakes where we shouldn't be afraid because we are learning the most from the mistakes. Yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, I said, if you don't share your mistakes, somebody else will share your mistakes. Yeah, you want to get out. This is a PR perspective. You want to get out in front of that before before it sounds sometimes it is, it is funny because I am making like pro tips on the Twitter also. And you know, this, this tweet compiles everything and somebody is reading that in the five seconds and they are like, yeah, okay. And they are moving away. But it was like two hours for me to get to that place that, okay, this is how it is working. And to make for some people life easier, I think it is nice and benefiting from myself. So it is a guilty pleasure in some sense. Yeah, well, and that's why it's key. I think we all tend to do this, but I find certain sources, voices that I like. There's certain like in the Office apps and services world, I have certain go to blogs, I have certain experts, fellow MVPs that I turn to for answers to things because I know that like the voice, I know the quality of the content of the solutions they provide. And also something that I'm very preferential, I know that they're all approachable. If I see something that's wrong or have questions about something that they've shared, and I can will interact with them. So it's that's another, I guess, piece of guidance that I have is like find those experts. And especially MVPs don't be shy about reaching out to us. I mean, that's, that's another thing which I don't even have to know you to know that because you're an MVP, that you're kind of a connector personality, and that you're open to people out in the community that you don't know, that see a video that read a blog post, reach out and connect with you. Have you had those kinds of interactions as well? Yeah, yeah, indeed. Because I have a couple of the cases like that that somebody was approaching me or I was approaching the MVPs. And to be honest, I was never let down with like ignorance or lack of the response. And a couple of the of the people which I meet along the lines, I'm still in touch. So we're exchanging some, some thoughts and asking the more technical questions from time to time. And this is funny that the label of the MVP can discourage some people in some sense, but it should encourage people to approach us because part of our like lifestyle is sharing and helping. I think this is the most value which I see in in like this networking. Yeah, for sure. Well, listen, I know that we're just over time here, really appreciate the time you're given for people that want to find out more about you or get in touch with you. What are the best ways to find you and connect with you? Yeah, so I was mentioning my blog. This is the 365corner.pl. At Twitter, you can also find me at the 365corner, David. And through the link at in, if you were typing David dash Zhukovsky, then you will also find me. So through all of the socials, you can find me without a lot of troubles. Excellent. And I will of course have this episode up on my blog and I'll have the links to all of David's contact information as well. But really appreciate your time. Hopefully I'll see you next spring if we do the MVP summit over state side. I hope to go there. I need to start to speak with my wife. I'm sure that you hear my kids. So it is not easy, but I want to travel and I want to meet so many people which I meet virtually in person. I think that it will be the experience of my lifetime. Yeah, I always tell every new MVP. It's one of the biggest perks is that the chance to get to see all of the other MVPs. And of course, the Microsoft, the product teams. And it's just, it's a great learning event and just a great way to connect. But thank you so much for your time. And we'll hopefully see you soon. Talk to you soon anyway. Yeah, thank you for having me.