 Just recently, on the 29th of May 2021, a small plane crashed right outside of Smyrna, Tennessee. This plane was heading to Palm Beach, Florida and carried members of the Remnant Fellowship Church. One of these members was the founder, Gwen Shamblin Lara. In her life, Gwen Shamblin Lara was a very controversial figure in the Christian and in the diet communities. I personally had experience with her way down workshop and honestly was very affected by her sudden death. But before we go any further, you know what to do. Please hit that subscribe button and give us a like. Also, as always, a very, very special thank you to all of our patrons. We truly could not do this channel without you. If you would like to join our Patreon community, there is a link down in the description box below. Welcome to SOTaric Atlanta. My name is Bryce and today we are going to be talking about the weight loss guru. Now, first of all, I still am down in Florida, hence why the background looks a little bit different. But because of Gwen Shamblin Lara's sudden death, I did feel the need to go ahead and film this video while she was heavily on my mind. I do want to say that even though there was a lot of controversy around her weight loss plan and around her church, I have nothing but good memories of Gwen Shamblin Lara. However, I will be sharing some of the controversy and some of the negative stuff regarding her as well to be fair and to be non-biased. At the end of this segment, I'm also going to be including an interview with my own mother, who did Gwen's weight loss program. That is how I got familiar with the program way down through our church back in the 90s when I was a kid. And her theories around weight loss have been something that have affected me into my adult life. Gwen Shamblin Lara was born on the 18th of February, 1955 in Memphis, Tennessee. I personally love her accent. It's an old Southern accent. And she in the 90s reminded me a lot of like my friends' parents. Gwen was raised in an upper middle class family. Her family was very well educated. Her father was a surgeon. Just like me, Gwen grew up in a very medically based family. She got her undergraduate degree in dietics from the University of Tennessee, where my own grandfather went to school. And then she got her master's in food and nutrition from Memphis State University. As many people will tell you, even those who are critical of her diet plan, this woman was very, very well educated. She understood food. She was a faculty member at Memphis State University for about five years. She also worked in the secular world as a dietitian. And she also worked for the health department of Memphis. And of course, she was also a member of the American Dietic Association. Gwen married her first husband, David Shamblin, in 1978. She was 22 years old at the time. Together, her and David have two children, Michael Shamblin and Elizabeth Shamblin-Hannah. And between their two children, they have seven grandchildren. In 2018, David and Michael got divorced. According to one source, I found the reasons for the divorce was that they had opposing opinions on certain things. And it was hinted that allegedly, Gwen was already in a relationship with Joe Lara, who would go on to become her second husband, whom then she would marry again in 2018. Because of the timing of this all, I do believe there probably was a little bit of a relationship happening before the divorce. And might have been a reason, one of the reasons for the divorce, but this is just speculation on my part. For me, that's their business, not my business. But a lot of people have had an issue with this because Gwen ran a church. Now, her second husband, Joe Lara, unfortunately, did pass away with Gwen in this plane crash that happened on the 29th of May. Gwen's son-in-law, Brandon Hannah, also passed away. Her daughter, Elizabeth's husband, in my heart, truly goes out to the family. Especially Elizabeth, I can't imagine losing your mom and the father of your children, your husband, all in one swoop. That must be totally devastating. And I really have had that family in my thoughts and prayers. Now, Joe Lara, her second husband, was also kind of famous, like kind of famous. He apparently was in some adaptation of Tarzan many years ago. But it is what it is. I didn't know he was until I started researching him. But he had some screen time. Now, from what I understand, after David and Gwen got divorced, David was still an active member in the Remnant Fellowship Church that Gwen had established in 1999. And again, from what I understand, he is the one who released her obituary once her death had been confirmed. So with Gwen, Shamblin, Lara, from the very beginning of her work in the weight loss community, things, in my opinion, seem pretty healthy. But there is a part in her timeline where things do tend to get a little bit weird. As I said earlier, I have a very positive experience with Gwen, but I can understand why others might see Gwen as a CULT leader as of the time of her death. And we're going to get into that. So let's start with the origins of the way down a workshop. So I want to note, before we get into the way down a workshop, that according to a study done by Duke University, evangelical Christians tend to be the most overweight with Baptist scoring the highest. I saw somebody else talk about this, and I think this is really important to bring up for many, many, many different reasons. First of all, it was the evangelical Christians that really embraced Gwen Shamblin Lara's way down workshop. And second of all, because we are talking about fundamentalism and also evangelicalism, on top of that, we need to understand that being overweight or being underweight is a sign of an imbalance. Now somebody else who is speaking about this workshop just recently brought up the fact that it appears that evangelical Christians, mostly women, tend to eat their feelings. To me, this means that there is a higher rate of imbalance with food addiction among conservative Christians. Again, I have my own opinions behind that as we looked at Bill Gothard. And Bill Gothard is extremely extreme compared to Gwen Shamblin's church. Again, we'll get into that a little bit later. But when you're forced to feel like you have to be perfect and you have to be pleasantly sweet or joyfully available, especially as a woman, and maybe that your own emotions and your own feelings aren't recognized as valid compared to that of your husband or your brother, there can then be some habits developed by an individual to try to sue that within themselves. And seeing that most of these extremely conservative groups tend to not drink or do other types of substances, food is the next best solution. So it absolutely makes sense that there would be a higher rate of obesity amongst evangelical Christians and fundamentalist Christians. But of course, weight issues run through all different demographics and walks of life. It is not exclusive, of course, to evangelical Christians. It's just an interesting phenomenon to observe. So in the 1980s, Gwen started weight control private consultations for her work. Again, this is what she had her undergraduate degree in, as well as her master's in. This is obviously something that Gwen was born to do. She was very fascinated by the way the human body works and the way the human body works with food. She developed the Way Down Workshop program in 1986 while she was getting her master's in food and nutrition. According to Gwen, she gained about 20 pounds while she was in school. Of course, we know that's normal. The freshman 15, we always see college students gain a little bit of weight when they're finally on their own. They have weird sleeping hours. They're not getting nutritious home cooked meals from their mother. They're now getting like pizza and beer and all sorts of stuff. So this is typically common. Now, according to Gwen herself, she had tried countless diets of the 80s. Now, I was born in 1983 and I feel like I catapulted into life during this whole low-fat, jazzercise era of our timeline. In fact, I remember my mother doing jazzercise. I remember going to big gymnasiums where they were teaching jazzercise classes and sitting in the back corner while my mother did her classes. I also remembered Richard Simmons. Y'all remember Richard Simmons? And I actually went and looked on YouTube and found an old Richard Simmons workout video. And I actually did it a couple of days ago and I had so much fun. I remember my mother would do his videos all the time. And I just, I really enjoyed Richard Simmons. And he had such a fun outlook on exercise. And that's something that I try to incorporate into my exercise. Exercise a lot is to have fun and to always enjoy it. If you guys are interested in checking out Richard Simmons workout videos, I have put the link down in the description box below because it is, it is a lot of fun. He was, he's a fun guy. So after Gwen tried all these countless diets in the 80s, she became convinced that there was more to being naturally thin than just behavior modification in the lucky genes. She believed that everybody was naturally thin, but some had lost their way. Her diet focuses on waiting until you're physically hungry to eat. So actual stomach pains, growling pains, and then eating whatever you want. Now in the beginning, she teaches you to cut your food in half. So let's say that you're craving McDonald's. Let's pick one of the most unhealthy meals that you can pick. So let's just say that you've spent your whole life starving yourself going on these crazy diets. And all of a sudden you're doing this way down program where the instructor is basically teaching you how to relearn how to listen to your body when your body needs food. That food is fuel. And so you start doing way down. You get up in the morning and you're waiting for your stomach to physically start to growl. Your stomach physically starts to growl. So you can eat whatever you want now, whatever you're craving. So you decide that on the first day of your way down, you're going to go to McDonald's and you're going to get a Big Mac and fries and a Coca-Cola, not a Diet Coke, a real Coke with all the sugar. So you go over to McDonald's, you get your meal, you come home, you spread your meal out. So what you have to do now is cut everything in half. So you take a knife, you cut your hamburger in half, you take the fries, you cut those in half, and you toss the other half away or you put it away and save it for later and you just eat half of the meal. Once you're finished, you got then now wait until you're hungry again to eat. Now, according to Gwen, over time, you won't have to cut your meal in half because you will learn how to eat until you're satisfied, not overly stuffed, but until your body feels satisfied. Gwen said that part of her research is she started to invite her naturally skinny friends out to lunch and she would observe them eating. They would go out to these meals and they would order what they wanted to eat and Gwen said, I'm paraphrasing, she would say that she would just gobble of everything on her plate and she would watch her friend would eat some of this, some of that, and then be done. And Gwen would say, why didn't you eat your mashed potatoes? You didn't finish them, did you not like them? And her friend would say, oh no, no, no, I loved them, they were great, I'm just full. And it started to occur to Gwen that there are people that still remember how to eat for their body. Her way down program basically was a program that taught people how to eat to live instead of live to eat. I think this is genius. This is part of what I do now, except for I know for myself, with the are you Vedic side of it, that I'm a Vata Pitta. So my disposition on Vata means that my first sign of hunger is I start to space out. For me, hunger pains come way later. And if I don't eat when I start to space out, by the time hunger pains come, it's bad news bears, I'm usually feeling like I'm going to throw up. So different body types, different dispositions have different mechanisms to tell them when to eat. Gwen also stated that you eat what you're craving, that your body knows what it wants, and if that's a brownie, that's a brownie. In her interview with Larry King, she even said that her God is the God of brownies, that God created food for us to enjoy, not to worship, but to savor and enjoy. Now at first, Gwen started holding small classes on way down in her consultant office in Memphis. And from what I understand, at first this way, even though Gwen herself was a Christian and was a member of the Church of Christ Church, the way down first originally originated not necessarily as a Christian diet, but as basically just relearning how to eat. By 1992, Gwen started holding classes at the Bellevue Baptist Church in Tennessee. This would be considered a mega church today, and it is one of the leading churches in the Southern Baptist Convention. At this point we see the program starting to become God focused, which is fine because I am a believer in God. I believe God did give us signs to show us when it's time to refuel ourself, and I also believe that God wants us to enjoy food and not think that certain foods are off limits because they're bad or whatever. But basically this idea started to form that if you eat outside of the boundaries of your own physical hunger, then you are committing a sin. Now I don't really know about that. I don't know if it would be considered a sin. I do believe that if you're eating to excess and you're overweight, then you are hurting yourself. And I heard the awesome Brenda from God is Gray had said that she believes sin. And again, I'm paraphrasing what she said. She believes sin is something that you do to hurt yourself or hurt other people. And I agree with her that if you're overeating to that point, then you are hurting yourself and that is not good. And on the opposite scale, starving yourself too, it's always hurting yourself. But as I said, there are incidents where you're gonna be needing to eat when you're not physically hungry. Diabetics, for example, sometimes have to eat something when they're not physically hungry because their body needs that fuel. Now this first group at the Bellevue Baptist Church was a 12-week program that was taught by Gwen through videotapes and audio tapes. And I did find some of the videotapes from the 90s that I watched them. There are five of them listed in the description box below, back when things were a little bit normal with the way down workshop, back when I was introduced to it through my mother. By 1994, there were 60 churches in 35 states and some churches in Europe that started to host the way down classes. By 1995, the next year, there was 1,000 churches in 49 states. By 1996, there were 5,000 churches across the United States hosting the way down workshops. And by this point, the way down workshop had a staff of about 40 people and was big enough and successful enough to build a headquarters in Franklin, Tennessee. In 1997, Gwen wrote her book The Way Down Diet. She said that eating basically has two purposes. One for fuel and the second was for emotional need. One is a sin according to Gwen and one is not. She uses the example of a chocolate cake. Two people could be eating a chocolate cake. One could be sinning and one could not be sinning. One could be eating the chocolate cake because they're actually hungry and that's what they crave. And one could be eating it just because it tastes good and they want to fill an emotional need. Now, I can understand this. If you're eating to fill an emotional need, you definitely need to become aware of that and observe that. I think a lot of us do this. When I get really stressed out or emotional, typically I don't eat. I'll typically forget to eat. But sometimes I do find myself eating out of boredom. If I'm just bored, I'll go get a freaking snack. That's not good either. Now, Gwen said that you need to start focusing on God. Like if you feel craving to eat but you're not hungry, then just go on your knees and start praying and really make your life God focused and that will help you to start to understand your hunger pains and relearning the gift of your body that God gave you. And again, yes, your body is a gift. Sometimes when we follow restrictive diets or we over-exercise, we're punishing ourselves and not loving ourselves. I see this in my industry all the time. When I see people come into the yoga, my sore shallow room and start overdoing it, it's like they're beating themselves up versus celebrating what their body can actually do. Now, I believe, even though I believe you can pray and you can't have God help you, I also believe in therapy. If you find that you are eating to excess and you can't control it and you're realizing that you have a food addiction, start praying but also try to find a counselor that can help you work through that because there's a reason why you're doing that. And you need to understand that and process that in order to let it go. This is one of the biggest issues that I have with evangelical and fundamentalist Christians. Of course, not all of them. This is just a generalization. I know there are plenty conservative Christians out there that do believe in therapy, but a lot of them don't. And I know in my church growing up that if somebody had cancer, then the congregation would pray for that person and pray for the doctors that were working with that person to help cure them. But when it comes to any type of mental imbalance, we see a lot of churches poo poo therapy and just think you need to pray it away. And that's not good. People need therapy as well. And I believe that God wants us to seek that kind of help if we need it. So by 1998, there were 21,000 classes and 250,000 participants across the world. Across the world, guys, a quarter of a million people across the whole world were participating in the way down workshops and they were having such success. My mother had a lot of success with way down back in the 90s when she did through our church. Again, I'll let her tell you about that when I talked to her at the end of this segment. In 1998, Gwen was also named the Christian Business Leader of the Year by Lipscomb University. And around this time, we also see Gwen become a media sensation. And it's easy to see why she became a media sensation. She's a cute Southern woman. She's very well-spoken. And her diet is one that promises you that you can get rid of excess weight forever and finally end your addiction to food and be able to eat whatever you want for the rest of your life. Now, I also want to mention that Christian dieting programs became big in the 1970s. And if you guys want me to do an episode full of all the Christian diets out there from this time period, I will be more than happy to do that. I looked into some of them. Like there was an old Christian diet that was like eat how Jesus ate and it was following the Mediterranean diet because that's how Jesus would have eaten. Now, again, different body types, different blood types, all that kind of stuff is going to require a different diet depending on what your body needs. But that was just one of the examples. Now, some of the old Christian diets would borrow from old Jewish dietary laws. And of course, they all kind of taught generally that being overweight was a sin. So from my look into different diets labeled Christian diets, I do think Gwen's was probably the most healthy one and really any person out of any faith, even if you're an atheist could benefit from Gwen's diet because it's literally just common sense of being able to listen to your body and when your body tells you it's hungry to then eat what your body's craving and not to overeat what your body's craving. So around this time, the first big controversy happened with Gwen and this was involving the Trinity. So Gwen as a Christian publicly denounced the Trinity. This was first done in an email that would send out to about 40,000 people who were associated with the way down workshop through their churches. Now, I do want to note that Gwen still did believe that Jesus was the Son of God and she still did believe in the Holy Spirit. She just didn't believe in the triad of all three in one. She claimed this because she said it was not mentioned in the Bible as there being a Trinity. And from my research, this is still a common belief at Remnant Fellowship Church. For a laid back Christian like myself, this is more of a tomatoes, tomatoes type of things. We're all entitled to our own opinions and our own interpretation of the Bible. However, for evangelical Christians that are maybe are not so laid back, this was kind of a nail in the coffin for the way down workshops being hosted in a lot of these churches. There was also Christian publishing houses that were publishing her books that dropped her because of this statement about the Trinity and she ended up forming her own publishing company so she could publish her own work. So part of me wonders if Gwen had been able to maintain her way down workshop in all these churches, even though they knew that she didn't believe in the Trinity but was still a Christian, if she was able to kind of maintain a relationship with these churches, would she have gone off the deep end? I don't know. But it does seem around this 1999 mark where things start to shift into like the kooky. Now I do have a problem with churches being like you can't have your workshop here because you don't believe exactly what we believe. I have a problem with that too, that to me is very cult-like and even though she didn't believe in the Trinity but other evangelical churches did, I mean again, tomatoes, tomatoes, she's still a Christian, she still believed in Jesus, she still prayed to the same God they prayed with so I just don't understand why this was such a big deal. I know that people in the comment section are probably going to yell at me for saying that because sometimes some of these conservative churches tend to be a little bit more on the violent side when it comes to people who think differently than they do but again, people are all entitled to their own opinions, they're entitled to their own interpretation and just because someone doesn't believe exactly what you believe does not mean that their relationship with God is invalid. So it was around this time that when it opened up her own church, the remnant fellowship church, and again, this is where things get a little kooky and things get a little weird and there's perhaps some CULT practices happening in this church. Now the remnant church was originally built from my own research and from what I understand to be an extension of the way down workshop. It seemed that with this little nugget of an idea of how to eat your food, how to live life as a human being eating food, could also be practiced in other areas of your life as well if you're tired, you sleep. If you're fighting another addiction, use the same principles as way down workshop and therefore, this whole theory started to really become the cornerstone of her belief system with this church again from what I understand. Now according to members or ex-members of the remnant fellowship church, there are a lot of practices within the church that do score high on the bite model which we went over with Bill Gothen, which is behavior control, thought control, emotional control, intellectual control, just highly controlled groups. Now because I'm not a member of the remnant fellowship church, I did try to watch some of the services that were recorded but of course when you're watching a recorded service, sometimes you don't know if you're actually getting the full story because it is recorded. So I am going to ask if there's anybody out there that was a member of this church, you had experiences with this church, good or bad, please reach out to me. I would love to talk to you. Now in 2002, Gwen purchased 40 acres of property and she donated it to her church to build her church and then in 2004, the Brentwood location opened. So let's kind of look at some of the CULT claims from other people and their recorded experiences at the church. Now something very different about remnant fellowship church and the IBLP or Bill Gothen or even Steve Anderson that we spoke about a couple of weeks ago is that there isn't a lot of what I can see as modesty. So from the outside looking in, it looks like a church, just a normal church like any of us would go to. You see many pictures of Gwen and like halter tops and tank tops and they wear makeup and pants. They apparently do drink at special occasions. So very modern in that respect. They also allow divorce obviously because Gwen herself had a little something allegedly going on with Darzan with Joe Lara and so left her original husband for him. So there's some normalcy, some secular normalcy in this church that again probably would have been hidden or just not allowed in some of the more fundamentalist churches. So some ex-members have claimed that Gwen called herself a prophet. I could not find any footage of her saying this openly but there have been claims made by ex-members. I did hear a speech that her daughter gave where she called her an oracle. So maybe that might be what they're referring to. They claimed that Gwen did not believe that the gospel was taught at its entirety at churches which I do agree with her on because we know they're missing books in the Bible. However, Gwen believed that allegedly she had the full knowledge of the gospels. I don't agree with that because as you know on this channel we're all together trying to figure this out. Nobody has the answers. We're just all trying to work together to figure out what was taken out of the Bible and what was held back from us. People claim that she prayed on vulnerable people who really wanted to lose weight. And so when they started to do her way down workshop which really was just again listening to their own bodies and learning how to reread their bodies she was able to then manipulate them into joining her church. This could potentially be seen as a form of spiritual manipulation like oh look at this magic that happened through my teaching, my counseling, my program. Now you've gotten skinny again so you really should come to our church because your whole life is going to be perfect, that kind of stuff if you know what I mean. And again these are all alleged claims. Some claims that if you left the church then you were shunned like in Scientology or again other organizations that start with a C. Some even claimed that members who left the church were then designated as like carrying the mark of the beast by Gwen herself. And then there was a website called Spirit Watch. Now Spirit Watch dropped a 50 page report claiming that this church, this remnant fellowship church met all the requirements to be a C-U-L-T. This was an article written by Adam and Maria Brooks. I have included a link down in the description box below. They said that they had a wonderful experience initially through the Weigh Down program and because of that they felt pressured to join Gwen's church. They felt that there were mind control tactics being used that you see in a lot of high demand religious groups. And they claimed that they were taught that if they ate outside of their own hunger that they were crossing a boundary set by God and that this was leading them to like excessive sin and damnation. They also claimed that remnant fellowship church practices fasting a lot. Now this is not uncommon in churches or any spiritual organization in Yoga We Fast. It's really very common but they are saying that this was excessive. And a lot of the claims against Gwen with her diet program says that it can lead to eating disorders like anorexia. Hence why I keep saying there needs to be a therapist involved in this process. Because yes there is value into listening to your body when your body needs to eat. However if it gets to the point where you're ignoring it ignoring it ignoring it you have some delusional thought in your head that it's because God is putting this boundary on you then you definitely need to get a therapist involved. There was also a court case that had to do with Child A B USC in Atlanta, Georgia where I'm from and this became called the gluestick case. This was Georgia versus Smith. A Georgia couple by the name of Joseph and Sonia Smith were tried and convicted of killing their eight-year-old son through corporal punishment they claimed or their claims have been made was taught to them through remnant fellowship church. In October of 2003 an eight-year-old child by the name of Joseph was rushed to Children's Hospital of Atlanta after his family called 911. According to his family he passed out while they were about to attend a prayer session online with their church which was remnant fellowship church. Once at the hospital he was declared brain dead. Doctors found that he had suffered ongoing A B USC and was often hit with glue sticks. It is alleged that the parents learned about glue sticks from their church because it was believed that glue sticks would not leave a mark. Parents were arrested and remnant fellowship church posted their bond when also stated they would be taking care of their legal bills as they believed the parents were innocent. In June of 2004 the church was raided as part of the investigation into the child's death. Nothing was found in the church that would include the church in the charges. The police claimed that there was no link between remnant fellowship church and this case. Again the parents were found guilty of felony murder on the 16th of February 2007 which ironically was their son's 12th birthday. So in conclusion of this section is this a CULT maybe? Did it turn into one? Probably. But do we throw the baby out with the bath water? No. Again there's a lot about Gwen Shamblin Lara that is concerning but there's also a lot about her teaching that is really really valuable in my opinion. Her common sense approach to eating and relearning your body is something that we all need to do. Again especially when it comes to exercise. Now interesting to note that with the way down workshop if you don't want to exercise if you hate exercising then you don't have to. And I agree exercise any type of exercise you do should be seen as fun. You should not be out there at the gym at your yoga studio at your dance studio running on a trail whatever it is you do you should not be doing that to try to beat yourself up or excessively burn calories. You should be celebrating your body. I love exercising. I exercise six days a week hardcore exercise six days a week and I love it. I celebrate it. When I teach my students when they're doing something really hard in their own practice I try to remind them that this work is a gift and that it's fun to see what your body can do and that your body can do it. Instead of the other way around where you need to do it to burn calories or get fit and strong the body is an organism that's always shifting growing and changing and therefore the root the crux of this way down workshop in my opinion is super valuable. Because our bodies are a gift and they're all very different and very unique and we are the people we are the spirits that get to inhabit these human bodies and experience sensation through them and so her approach to eating what you want to eat that you crave and exercising only if you enjoy it to me is spot on. Now again did it cross a line and go into excessive? Probably. Do you need to have a therapist on call to help you with fluid addictions? Absolutely. But again my opinion we cannot throw the baby out with the bath water. I also once more wish the family lots of peace during this trying time. Please do not reach out to them. Please do not harass them. And coming up next an interview with my mother on her experience with the way down workshop. Okay continue. Yeah I mean are you seeing a I just hit record. I don't think you have to do anything. Okay. Because I'm recording. Since it's recording. Yeah I think you're good. Alright hello everybody welcome to the second part of this episode about the passing of Gwen Shamblin. Lara now as I said in the first part I have very mixed feelings about Gwen and whether or not she was a CULT leader or just somebody who had some controversial views on the Christian faith and on a dieting. Now I have this is my mother. Y'all know my mother she's been on the channel before and she I was familiar with Gwen Shamblin Lara because my mother did the way down program in the 90s back when it was really popular amongst a lot of evangelical churches. And I remember my mother talking about it and we spoke about that in the first part of this video about what it entailed and so I had always kind of good memories of Gwen. So I was really shocked when these accusations came up about her church the remnant fellowship church. Now mom I will say don't say the C word CULT because we will take this down. So anyway so mom I know most people know you because you've done shows on this channel before but before leading up to way down can you give everybody kind of a history of like dieting you did or growing up in the 80s when Jazzercise was big and all that kind of stuff. Sure well I was born chubby. So I started the diet route really at a young age I can remember even being in the middle school and you know we'd go on crash diet. So it's something that I've struggled with my whole life. I've tried everything weight watchers way down Atkins you know tried them all and so it was in the late 90s and my church was sponsoring this way down group for weight loss and so I decided you know I had two children I needed to get some weight off and thought well that would be a great way because we would have support you know you go to these meetings you have other people that are struggling like you are and so we did her way down series and if I recall it was a video series that we did we had a book and we had and she had a video series and the program really and truly actually I really liked it and I need to do it again because it really is similar to what the intermittent fasting programs are today that most doctors are really you know suggesting we do in fact it's very similar her philosophy was that God didn't intend for us not to enjoy the foods that he has provided for us and you know we should be able to enjoy food but of course it's all about portion control and that was the main thing but her philosophy was that you would you would not eat until you got really hungry and when I mean really hungry I mean not up here hungry but where your stomach was actually growling you know and so you were to wait till your stomach started growling before you you could eat and sometimes that took a good part of the day which is basically intermittent fasting and and then when you do eat she said eat what you want but half it so if I wanted to eat I'll never forget a lot of in one day I would go get a subway sandwich because you know that was when subway was huge and I would go get a subway sandwich and a bag of chips and I would you know get this the regular not the big one and I would split it in half and I would half my bag of chips and I would eat half of it for lunch and then I would wait until my stomach growled again and I would eat the other half so it I mean you're you know it wasn't a lot of calories in a day I mean you know but it it gave me the freedom you know to to eat what everybody else was eating did not worry about it I remember one time I don't know if you remember this Bryce but we were driving to the beach and you remember sweet Linda who would come to the beach with us who I just adore so Linda was driving with us I think your dad had you know he he couldn't always come because of work but anyway so we were driving and I remember just very distinctly on the way it was y'all were starving and my stomach was growling and we pulled into a fast food restaurant and I remember ordering a hamburger and french fries and cutting it in half getting half the fries out and eating it and I lost a bunch of weight doing that you know so she did she did have scripture to back up her ideas she would you know she would have scripture to back up her ideas and you know but her whole philosophy was just really not overeating now she got real thin and I think as the years went on it kind of maybe her changed a little bit but but I actually like the program and since she's been doing this and since it's been in the news I've been thinking you know I probably need to go back to doing that to get my coat we'll have to leave that word out because we can't say that either oh that's okay I'm sorry that's okay I'm sorry years of YouTube oh that's okay well that's what I talked about in the beginning of this and I actually found mom I went and found five of her videos from the 90s oh really I watched them all and I'm placing them in the description box for people okay I'll have to go back and look at them and as I said I remember you saying this as well because I was like in middle school or high school I was old enough to like comprehend what you were saying and yeah hopefully her whole full life she is as I said part one of this she's a smart lady she she was a nutritionist she had her masters and food nutrition so she had studied all these diets in the 80s so I learned too that the fat of Christian dieting came out in the 1970s and there's some really funny diets out there that have asked the channel if they want me to cover I'll cover because they're kind of funny but then in the 80s I said that you know being born in 1983 I was kind of catapulted into life during a timeline where low fat dieting was really big and oh yeah those flies I remember you were always running or doing jazzy flies and I actually found Richard Simmons video that I'm putting in the description because I remember you would do it and I loved them and Richard Simmons I loved watching rewatching him I did his video for fun because he expressed exercise as being fun and being boyish versus like beating yourself up and I remember that you I remember in way down did she say if you don't want to exercise you don't have to exercise that was kind of class to be like right you should enjoy your life yes you know really to lose weight it really is mostly it really is about what you put in your mouth exercising makes you feel better and I'm a big proponent as you know of exercising just to strengthen your body and your muscles and I think it's good for your mentally too but you can't outrun your weight right you know what I mean you have to watch what you eat I mean it's that's the bottom line but but yeah I had recently done a Richard Simmons video too and you know he catered to the very over weight in the elderly which was nice you know he he wanted everybody to be able to enjoy exercising but yeah it was this idea of having fun which um I've I've kind of changed my thinking about exercise where it's a chance to utilize your body versus beating yourself up to burn calories exactly I want to be talking about like when I was in high school one of my favorite movies was swing kids remember that movie swing kids oh yeah about about the the kids this group of kids during world war two in Germany and their way to rebel against the the government was to dress in British clothing and go to these clubs and swing dance to American music which was obviously illegal in Germany during that time and I remember you saying one point like this is why my parents were always skinny is because their generation they danced and they didn't have oh yeah they they were active and yeah they didn't have the the microwave and the instant foods that cooking was more of a of a process then we have easy access so you do see this like change happening in the middle of the 20th century where weight seems to become more of an issue than maybe it was before of course there were a way to go fast but it really became like a huge issue because our lifestyle had changed and so you see this immediate like the pendulum swings where people start starving themselves doing exercising jazzercise which is fun too and now I think the world is has a way healthier view of that now than back then sure but I do and I said this in the video like I do think that she had I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water because I think she really understood like some everybody's naturally skinny it's just some people have lost their way now I want to ask you some about her religious beliefs and ask you what you believe because we have been studying on this channel and on David's channel some of these more French Christian like C-U-L-T's like the I especially since the Josh Dugger stuff came out about Bill Blockford really and we grew up I've said this before we grew up very conservative Christian but we were progressively liberal compared to like the Dugger and their belief system yeah and with when Shamblin the thing about her church is that you don't see modesty culture she wore halter tops people wore paints they drank so there's some differences there now the first thing I want to ask you is towards the end or towards the time where she got a little kooky and things kind of got a little weird she started to really preach that to eat when you're not hungry to eat outside of boundaries of hunger was a sin do you believe that's true hunger is the sin oh no no no no no no to eat outside like if you eat when you're not hungry oh no no no no she really thought that that was a sin and that you know that's extreme you know I think God put food on this earth for us to enjoy I mean sometimes she just you know you just want to enjoy food and I don't think that's the sin at all and you know yeah hunger it that that's no I do not believe that at all because you know what some people honestly have like hypoglycemia your sister has a little bit of that and you know when she would not eat for a period of time she would get sick you know I'm I'm yeah you are too yeah I'm not yeah that's that and are you you ate it so what the things that when the foundation of her teaching waiting like really learning common sense like really learning how to listen to your body and she taught that that the stomach physically growls now if you mold that into like an are you Vedic approach which we've talked about because we're different Doshas you have three dispositions of people now someone who's kapa based which is what you are they can wait until their stomach physically growls they're really good about going long periods of time without eating but my sister and me we're both Vata based Vata based people the first sign of hunger is we start to space out right to get like space right by the blood sugar drops probably by the time our stomach is by the time my stomach growls is there's I feel like I'm going to grow up right and so I've learned so if you take wins if you if you look at her her message as waiting to your stomach growls is super strict then that's not going to be good for people who are Vata so if you can kind of see the gray there and that some people like you learn like when I like before I do long interviews I might not be spacey but I will eat something like when I do David show sometimes I'm one for two hours I need to eat something so I don't space out while I'm talking to him and so that's a big difference there that could get people into some trouble if they're not in a copper based person you also look at people who are diabetic if they have like right they might not be hungry but sometimes they have to eat something to do with her managing that blood that and so now I also found an interesting study as I was looking into this somebody else brought this up who had done way down on another video she had mentioned that evangelicals are like really high and like being obese and I looked into it and there is a study from Duke University interesting where evangelicals tend to be the most obese overweight and the Baptist are the highest and she this woman reckoned that it was because a lot of evangelical women especially have the tendency to eat their emotions especially if you're looking at more like conservative or fundamentalist views of of the woman's place that she's trying to hide a lot of what and so that she starts eating her emotion do you agree with that I eat my emotions but I don't think has anything to do with my religion and you know possibly too because they're in the kitchen a lot their view on serving their family and serving their husbands and all too they may just be cooking a lot therefore they're around food a lot but no I I'm very conservative and I have a great relationship with the Lord but I also am very I'm not extreme like I just think sometimes those extreme views can really be dangerous and you know but that's interesting about that would be a good study to find out why is that you know in Baptist Baptist usually are ranked the highest um yeah now I know for Baptist watching we've talked about this extensively there's a huge difference between like Baptist modern day Baptist and like you know the IVLP or the good Duggars like the independent sure there's a huge difference we grew up with that I mean for me the the only difference I see between the friends we grew up with who were Baptists they got dunked in a pool as a kid Baptism and we didn't that was really really a big difference sure but their parents would have a glass of wine with you and they would not practice quiverful like we danced and had fun right right and that that's so that's a very extreme opinion on the Anabaptist which the Anabaptists are the their basic belief was that you have to be old enough to consent to baptism which is why they do it older versus other denominations like us that do it as babies um right so so yeah and you can see like I've been studying Bill Gothard and the IVLP which mm-hmm and I crazy stuff I like the Duggars I watch yeah we watch their show we watch their yeah I've always kind of admired them but gosh lately some of that stuff they teach I don't know some of this stuff coming out it's kind of like I'm taking a second look at this yeah it's it's not you know you focus it seems to me as an outsider looking and they focus on the Old Testament laws versus the New Testament laws which are very very very different and um there's difference between submitting to your husband and being kind of enslaved to your husband right and these types of families and so and that doesn't say like I I really do like a lot of the Duggar kids I think they're I still watch yeah absolutely and I and I said this on this show like I don't blame the IVLP IVLP for Josh's issues even though they might have helped his issues fester Josh is a full-grown adult and he is responsible for his own his own issues so how many people at our church did weigh down with you because I remember you going to the meeting yeah I go to the meeting once probably about 20 and I know I lost about 20 pounds I was shocked at how quickly you know the weight came off you know of course like any other guy I've been on did I maintain it no but you know but it was mostly about just eating when you're hungry and portion control and I know Bryce you're always really good about portion control I really think that's the secret it's I do believe that at the end of the day it's calories in versus calories out and you know so the way she taught it was you just aren't going to get a lot of calories in and that therefore you know you're burning more calories than you're eating so therefore you're going to lose the weight but you know I do when I do the intermittent passing which it I really do feel better when I'll go for periods of time without eating but like you said my body can handle it I know you know some people can't handle that so there was a lot about the program that that I I really like I'll never forget and I don't know if you saw this on the video she talked about that you know God wants us to enjoy the food on this earth and she was saying you know back in the olden days she was talking about how she loved free toes and she said don't you think when they made the corn got corn meal and you know made some patties or whatever in the and you know with corn it's kind was kind of like eating that stuck in my head it's like I like free toes and I'm not going to deny myself a free toe but I just have to watch how much of it I eat and I you know that kind of stuck with me it's like you know that that makes sense don't eat the whole bag just eat a little bit of it that's a problem with me though once I get started it's hard for me to stop well and I would say like she talks about a lot about whatever food you're craving go eat it is great for people who don't have stomach issues but like you know I've been born with horrible stomach issues which I've talked about on this channel now I know it has a lot to do with blood types and you even talked about when I was a kid just a baby just having just awful digestive system and in my 30s I've learned how to manage it for the most part because I have to I know that sometimes I'll crave something to eat but I know if I eat it I'm gonna have a bad stomach and so again that kind of goes into the individual person like you might crave something but you know if you eat it your body's not gonna be able to digest it so again coppers are usually really good at digesting things and so like your disposition is better at that and I think that's kind of where she was she was teaching to people who who could like live a little bit freer and that was the thing I really liked about her what she was saying is it offered people this sense of freedom that they could just live their life exactly and not be like tied down to the diet and um yes you know exactly that's what I said it gave you freedom if everybody was we're stopping by a fast food store on the way to the beach you know it gave me the freedom to say okay I can eat a half of a hamburger and a handful of french fries and it's okay you know it's like I can't go there because I don't have any diet food for me you know it does give you that sense of freedom and you know that's how your Aunt Debbie has I mean she does intermittent fasting she only eats during a window you know and she's kept her weight off all these years but she doesn't deny herself anything she wants she just watches her proportions and only eats during a small period of time so it does it give you it gives it gave me freedom and I liked that about it so now what do you now one thing I noticed from her videos um did she ever speak about getting fair like people who had um eating disorders whether it was overeating or under eating going and seeing a therapist to help them or I don't remember that did you see that what no what I get from her is she she thought you could just like pray it away like just go to God in prayer when you are having cravings and I know that now in the 2020s we understand more about the brain and that sometimes we need to see I mean I loved my therapist that I went to we we need to see a therapist and this is one problem that I have a lot with like conservative churches sometimes is that when you have a member of the church that has like cancer the church will pray for that person and for their doctor you know understanding that prayers prayer can't be that alone they have to also have a doctor helping them sure but they don't see the same thing with people who have some mental issues that they need to go see a secular therapist as well to help them because the brain is an organ just like the colon is yeah the great point and I think that a lot like at some of the cons I've seen to her program is that it it kind of enabled people who have and I can't I don't think I can say the word on youtube the a word who have a propensity to starve themselves that yeah it kind of enabled that because on her what I can say that it does say that this diet can help you with an eating disorder but I I you know the less you eat the lesser stomachs gonna grow your body will you know adapt to that you're giving it and so that was one of the downfalls and I've said it in the first part over and over again like if especially if you overeat too that's an addiction especially if it's to the point where you are really endangering your health probably need some medical intervention with that as well with a therapist to help you figure out what it is it's just like a drug addiction yeah it is they wouldn't try to put it in a way you would send a picture to me yeah you know yeah only like food but you just you can't live without food but you can live without drug so it's it's a different beast all together yeah that was hard about it that was an issue some people had is that she kind of neglected the mental aspect to addiction whether under eating or overeating as well and people getting that type of now to figure out why they're doing it I mean to process that and I have a question too and I know that this is going to cause a lot of controversy and once again if you're in the comment section just please be respectful to each other I said this over and over and over again we as finite people cannot understand an infinite God so every denomination every person's perspective perspective on religion whether it's Christianity is their own opinion no one's right no one's wrong no one has all the answers so please be respectful to people in the comment section but one thing that got when Shamblin in a lot of trouble in the late 90s and what caused her way down program to kind of get kicked out of churches was that she denied the Trinity now in in my opinion that is not that big of a deal it's Tomatoes Tomatoes because she did believe that Jesus was the Son of God in all aspects of the word Christian she was a Christian she just did not believe that the Father Son Holy existed as one and her excuse was that it doesn't say it in the Bible that it says it nowhere in the Bible and a lot of churches got really upset about that and kicked her program out which in my opinion I mean I think I'm a little open-minded like Tomatoes Tomatoes like she still believes she's still a Christian it's just a different perspective and sometimes I think that if the churches had not done that she would not have gone off the deep end with then starting her own church if that makes sense like the church is doing that and kicking somebody out because they have one little difference in opinion for me is CULT behavior that's what CULTs do and I religious or she wasn't denying the Christian faith which the Christian faith is believing Jesus was the Son of God that's the crux of it it's just a different opinion Episcopalist, Presbyterians, Methodist, Baptists all have different opinions of the same religion um so what are your thoughts on that? You know religion is a tricky thing I think religion is an individual relationship with Christ do I believe in the Trinity or do I believe that she that that was not a good reason to kick her out? Well I mean I know you believe in the Trinity but like yeah did you know that and what is your reaction to that and does it change your opinion? You know I didn't know that I didn't know that and it would be interesting for me to go back and do some research on that but um she I just remember I'm just trying to remember in my mind some of the videos sorry do you hear me? That's okay That's okay That's okay That's okay She um are you sure it's okay? No it's fine everybody watching has dogs most of the videos was fine to hear Robbie Markinsom She gets anxious when I'm not around her now I forgot what you're asking about the Trinity and should that you know I do remember her she really would have whatever belief she had she would have scripture to back it up she you would see her sitting in a chair if I recall with her Bible open and say you know this is what the Bible says about this or this is what the Bible says about that so I know that she was a biblically based Christian you know I do believe that she you know read scripture and made decisions from that but you know it's kind of like you said it's the different religions Catholic, Protestant, whatever it's different but I think that that basically if you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he is your you know he's what we he's our salvation you know I I think that's the bottom line really that's kind of how I felt too like when I was reading I was like this is ridiculous like this is ridiculous like that they would kick her out and especially if her program was helping people why would the church get rid of it if just because of that one thing that she has a different opinion on it wasn't I don't think she was forcing anybody to believe what she believed she just said that this is she didn't find any evidence in the Bible that they were three important and it's interesting to look at the council of Nicaea a lot of these things that are taught as dogma in the in the church now were decided in the fourth century so we don't even know what the early question actually believed when it came because over 2000 years of course things are going to change and evolve and all that kind of so so I thought that was absolutely ridiculous but I can't understand how some evangelical churches because in my opinion yeah some evangelical churches can be a little bit on the violent side when it comes to not physically but like emotionally mentally on the that's just my opinion it's just from what I've witnessed they can be a very A B U S I V E to other people who who have a slightly different perception which is not okay that's not that's not that's to me in my opinion that's kind of satanic to be that way to people that's not of God Jesus's main thought was to love one another right to love each other as you know and that's the that's the bottom line is just love to love Jesus and to love one another and accept people for their differences and are you froze up a little bit I think I lost you guys can you see me I can see you you just froze up hello can you hear me mom okay can you hear me see me sorry my interest is our internet connections unstable this house has terrible internet I apologize that's okay it's my house but yeah I just think that you know we should just you know love one another honestly and you know you don't have to accept everybody's beliefs and everybody's beliefs can be different but that doesn't mean you still can't love them and then and you're still the same religion like you're still the same religion right right you know still the same bible that's what that's what kind of just drives me crazy um so how did it ended our church when did the program stop it was just like you know maybe a 12 week program or a six week program where we went you know once a week and it and and they just did it that one time and they may have done it a couple of times I I can't remember but I just did it that one time yeah yeah it was just you know a short little program I don't remember I won't say your names I don't want to dox anybody but I remember the woman who held who led it at our at our church I don't even remember that um to her husband taught at Darlington so it's like I don't want to say your name because sure I know I remember her being super excited about it because she didn't have to exercise anymore oh that's funny I remember her saying something at school at the school we went to a private school yeah I think I remember that now yeah and she was just super excited that she didn't have to in her I think her husband was like a long distance runner or something but she was super excited that she didn't have to exercise I'm free of having to do this so so now how did you feel when you found out she had died in a plane crash well you know I haven't really kept up through with her through the years but I remember you telling me a while back mom you know the lady that started way down is has very controversial and so you're the one that kind of tell me about that but that's been a while since you tell me that you know who actually told me about it Bill he was looking on Facebook or somewhere and he said Alice do you know who this you know Gwen Shamblin is with way down and I said oh yeah I did her program before and he's the one that said well she was killed in a plane crash I said yeah so I stumbled upon the controversy around her when I was doing research into some of these other French groups and she popped up and again I know I've read a lot of the allegations that people have towards some of the stuff that maybe she's done maybe her remnant fellowship church became a high controlled religious group I understand that but there's a lot of gray there I feel like like there was a case back in the early 2000s here in Georgia Georgia versus Smith where a couple was charged with felony murder for their kid he was basically corporal punishment had been used on him with glue sticks which apparently they were part of the remnant church and they claimed that the church had suggested that use of I'm trying to be careful what I say on YouTube yeah I understand that bearing the wrong boiling you know that kind of stuff right and the Shamblin's actually paid for their bail and paid for their legal fees the church paid for everything for them and the church was rated in 2004 in connection to this case but the police did not find anything in the church that would tie them to this case the parents were just members of the church but people kind of took that and ran with it because of course the punishment of children is a very touchy subject the people I don't even know what I believe anymore when it comes to that because you know different children I'm sure have different reactions to different forms of punishment but the whole thing was that their church taught to use hot glue sticks not hot but because it wouldn't leave marks was the whole thing and it became the glue stick case but her she always denied it and I saw a lot of interviews with her where she frankly was like we do not support this like you know you have to discipline your kid but not to this it's like we do not support that and so I don't really know because I don't know her I don't know anybody I've asked for anybody who was a part of the church to contact me if they have any stories they want to share good or bad I know that it seemed to them that their church was very community based like a lot of the weddings in the church looks like we're held actually at her house and she had she has a beautiful old southern home in Tennessee like I said she there's no when you think of these like fundamentalist groups I would not call them fundamentalist they were tank tops jeans shorts there's none of that modesty type of stuff they were she wore tons of makeup her hair got crazy towards the end there it got real big towards the end there closer to God the higher the hair closer to God when I said this early when I was listening to some of her videos from the 90s like she reminded me a lot of like a friend's mom growing up just the way she feel that that Southern draw that good Southern accent yeah very and very well educated and her father was a surgeon just like your dad and you know she came from a medical family just like your family and so there were a lot of similarities with her family and our now we're and so maybe that's why I don't feel as quick to say oh this was bad because right little got there because there there is a lot of gray there and I do feel a common commonality with her and she's with money talking about her love of food you know and her love of chicken salad and like what she say on Larry King my God is the God of brownies you know yeah you know yeah so um so yeah and I just think and I don't know you know maybe she did get a little bit into her own power and right the megalomani there I don't I don't know I don't I don't really feel like I have enough information to say yay or nay on the topic but of course a lot of people are very um very very very condemning of the diet which we have this whole body body positivity movement happening right now which is good and bad at the same time because they're enabling people to stay in a very unhealthy situation sure you know I don't know do you think that she was a little kooky or could you see signs of that when you're doing the program now not really I thought she's very interesting I thought she was a great um orator you know she she was funny I mean I I thought she was cute I don't know I I just you know I've never thought anything negative about the program I I actually liked it so you know you heard nothing about her church no whispers about her torture no and I will say this to you think about the the era that that in the 90s we didn't have access to you know the internet as much as we're doing now and it all opened in 2004 her church opened in 2004 okay so I did it before she opened her church she's made that statement about the Trinity I believe in 2009 and she started the church technically in 1999 but the the big church she's seen now that opened until 2004 yeah yeah the videos I've seen it just really looks like a like a a normal protested church in my opinion people say she opened it as an extension of her way down program and she tried to incorporate the philosophy behind way down on a lot of other aspects of life too which you know whatever I mean yeah you're just going through the body it's all really you can look can you it's common sense you know so you can't really judge her for that and I know there was some scandals she did get divorced in 2018 and apparently remarried really quickly to the guy who played Tarzan in the 90s and so there was some like scandals around I mean I just read one article that talked about this but I don't have anything you know verified but it was a very quick remarry so there was some interesting stuff around that as well but you know obviously they believe in divorce obviously yeah look and serve that's true and they're all divorced well you know what anytime anybody dies or tragically especially like that that must have been a horrible you know way to die you do you know you do feel bad for the family and you you know hope that they're doing okay and the survivors um well you know where they were going apparently where I'm gonna have to spell this they were going to MAGA rally uh so we have that in common it's for them like I said always like her so one I will say her daughter Elizabeth um her husband was also in the plane with her mom and they have four small kids and that's heartbreaking because her daughter probably around my age yeah and they have four small kids and her she lost her mom and her husband that's terrible and one yeah one one swoop and um whether her her son was not on the plane so the kids are both still here um and their dad apparently from what I read is still really involved in the church and actually is the one that released when's obituary her ex-husband when it was confirmed that she was did not survive with the crash so if they'll have their dad to help them and so I have seen a lot of channels go out there totally just great her as a as a malicious maniacal leader not realizing that her daughter now has lost her mom and her husband and has uh now had four small kids to like raise now by herself yeah and she's about that's 30s maybe early 40s so she's not old so that's really tragic you know thank god you obviously they're bothy so she's not going to probably have to worry about but um but that is really shocking yeah and um and we've lost a lot of family members through sickness yeah sometimes I feel like when a family member dies through sickness it's almost easier because there's a relation period sure you can say your goodbyes you can read and you can really process it but when somebody dies so suddenly like that that they must be going through a lot of shock and trauma at the same time those kids lost their grandmother and they're yeah yeah both your grandmother and their dad so um so that's very very very tragic and we I really know our prayers go out to that family yeah very sad for them so yeah so well if you if you do weigh down again will you come back and tell everybody sure doing it how you're thinking about it actually you've kind of gotten it in my mind oh well I've seen a lot of other people say I think I'm gonna go back on my diet again because so I'll let you know keep you posted maybe I'll do a little for a month do a little test to see how it goes well if you want to video your progress every day I'll create a playlist on the channel for you all right so that might be okay all right I'll do that for sure and again I want to reiterate that neither my mom nor I or doctors or nutritionist so if you are looking at diet plans please go talk to your doctor first sure before taking even if you we both said that we kind of like her philosophy just go talk to your doctor to make sure you don't have any hypoglycemic or anything that might might be agitated by some of the symptoms and I in my perspective like I said I don't think I think she would be the type that would say okay well if you notice that you start spacing out first that body's way of telling you it's time to eat exactly I was I was thinking that when you said that earlier that you got to listen to your own body that is your your body saying I need to eat something and I know for me probably for I can't go a long period of time without food I have to eat every couple of hours because of that so so please please if you like the philosophy again go talk to your doctor first to make sure absolutely that and if you do feel like you have an addiction to food or any type of eating disorder please go seek a therapist help you because your brain is an organ just like your heart just like your lungs just like your colon and any type of mental illness is an illness just like your other organs and there are great doctors great therapists out there that can really help you work through that because you can't absolutely you can't stop eating so now so can't gotta eat well it's good to see you yes mom we're so I I wasn't tell all my people watching I wasn't planning on filming in Florida but this all happened actually yeah when Shamblin lost her life was the day that our family got a new life in it aww so that's our well can't wait for you to meet her she's beautiful we have a new my mom has a new little grand baby yeah little chubby little girl she's a cutie pie she came into the world a few hours after uh after when left the world so that's why you got a wonderful circle eye well I love you honey thanks mom we'll meet you bye bye