 Sound good? Okay. Is AJ coming tonight? Hi, as far as I know he is. I haven't seen him yet. Okay. Good. So this, I guess we're live, right? That's we are live. How exciting. Okay. So this is the Development Review, Review Board for Burlington, May 4th. And we will take up items as they are on the published agenda. And Scott will bring on board to participate. People who are either applicants or the public that want to participate on each item as we call them. And we ask that you give Scott your contact information your mailing addresses if you're going to participate. And we will swear you in as appropriate at that time. And the first thing on the agenda is the agenda. We have a request for deferral. Is that right, Scott? Yeah, for 57. South William Street. Yes. We'll take up that at that time, I guess. Okay. Okay. Communications. You posted some updated drawings today. Yeah. Everything is up to date in the packet. Okay. Good. I guess we're good to go. Minutes. I didn't look, but I bet there are minutes in there. There are minutes with each packet online. Yep. Good. So if everybody can look at that, if there's any issues with the minutes, you know. Okay. So then our first item is a consent agenda item. And it's 3090 North Avenue. This Key Valley Park District is the applicant here for that. Yep. We have Nick Warner. And Nick, I've been able to speak. Yes. I'm here. Thanks. Okay. So, Nick, this is on the consent agenda, which means it's recommended for approval with. Did you see the staff report on that? Yes. And is that okay with you? Yep. Good. Is it okay with the board that we treat this as a consent agenda item? I see nobody objecting to that. And is there anybody in the public who wanted to speak on this item for 3090 North Avenue? It's a pretty hot item, Brad. Well, it's a nice little area at the end of the bike there. It's been happening for a while. So this is they all look like applicants to me, Brad, but if anyone wants to speak, raise your hand. You're okay with without it. I mean, okay. So, Ken, we have a motion on this item, 3090 North Avenue. I can make the motion. Go ahead. Sure. On 3090 North Avenue, item number 21-0824SN, I move that we approve the application and adopt staff findings. There's a second on that. Second. See, Jeff. Any discussion? All in favor? I am opposed. Nobody opposed. So you're set to do your signage, Nick. Thank you very much. Appreciate it very much. Take care. Come on down. Check out the park. Is it underwater yet? No, the water's a little bit higher now, but it's not flooding this year. So I can just run through it. It's great. Thank you. It's a great spot. It's been a great project. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. The next item on the agenda is 180 North Avenue, which is the Monticeau Historic Garage and rebuilt on that footprint. Some other renovations in the building is the applicant here for that. Is this Sam, Ryan for the applicant? Yeah, that's Sam. All right, Sam. Hey, guys. I'm here. Hi, Sam. Is there anybody in the public who wishes to speak on 180 North Street? If so, raise your hand. I don't see any hands raised, Brad. Okay. And it's Sam. What's your last name again? Gardner. Okay, Sam. I will swear you in. Do you swear to tell the truth and hold truth under pain and penalty or perjury? Yes. Good. So this is the staff has reviewed this and suggest that we approve it. Do you have anything you want to say or anything you want to present in regards to that? No, originally we looked at saving it and we determined that just we want to do it right. And so tearing it down and you're doing a one-story addition onto the building is that right? That's in your... Correct. And that's... With kind of a deck catwalk above it. And that's what shows on your plans connecting the new garage to the existing building. Yes. The one thing I have somewhat of an issue with on this is that from my point of view... Brad, if you're going to ask questions, do you have to open it as a hearing? I thought I did open it as a hearing. It's quarter of a minute. It's a public hearing. Oh, right. Sorry. Yeah. The regular hearing anyhow. Yeah. So the only one... I'm sort of... I feel the drawings are incomplete. And maybe... Is this your project, Ryan? Correct. Yeah. You know, aren't we supposed to have full drawings of the building and we're getting an addition on the back of the building? I know it's just this little thing in the back of the yard. Correct. That was a great addition to the application actually. I honestly... I don't believe I asked for elevation drawings of that particular section. So that would be lacking as a matter of fact. Yeah. Because it's... And the photographs though are somewhat explanatory in terms of the aerial photographs, but they're still... It's hard to really read the building from those aerial photographs. So, Sam, did you ever have drawings done of the building? The elevations do show part of the side of the building and the heights. But I think what you're asking for is these elevations plus a little... Show the entire... Yeah. I think that that's actually what the CDL says you're supposed to be providing your elevations of the building. Okay. You can see the scale. And I can kind of tell it's like a hit roof. Yeah. I can kind of tell. It's true. Okay. You can kind of tell. Okay. Got it. So, it's pretty easy. I could get the rest of the lines and intel in there pretty easily. Okay. Is that needed? Yeah. I admit, I come from a prejudicial point of view that I make my living from doing these drawings. So, I'm hoping it's not self-serving, but... No. I think it's a fine request. I didn't realize that I was focusing on kind of the addition. You're correct. So... It helps us understand what is being proposed and how it really relates. You got it. I got it. Does anybody on the board have other questions for the applicant? The other question that I had that I couldn't tell from the plans is what is going into that first floor addition and just the current plans? Because I think it said that the... I'm assuming it's the first floor is being broken into two units and that's currently one. Correct. We thought that it was kind of already laid out as a couple of units and just so working with that design, we're putting a little addition off the back that would be supposed to be a bedroom. So, that's unit one. Yes. Correct. Or unit two, whatever. And that bedroom is accessible off the kitchen? Yes. It's kind of a studio apartment. So, if you were to call that a bedroom or you could call it a bedroom, but it's... We're not going to put a door on it, essentially, because it's a small apartment. Did you have more questions, Caitlin? No, I think that's it. Anybody else on the board have questions for the applicant? I'm going to ask one other question on the site plan. I don't see trash located anywhere on the site plan. Can you tell me what happens with trash right now? It would be next to the addition, the small 8x14 addition. So, it would be on the east side of the addition, is that what you're saying? Yes, that's the east side. Correct. And would you sort of screen it or something like that? It's pretty what it would be hidden, because it's behind a porch in the solid building. Yeah. Okay, I think... Ryan, don't we usually have people screen the trash there is? Yeah, absolutely. They would be screened from view from the street, maybe bring properties ideally. So, you have to stuck behind a building that might be adequate screening. So, but yeah, we usually require that they screen them. I don't think you could see it from the street if it was behind that corner there. I could be wrong. Questions from the board on this one? It does seem pretty straightforward. I guess everybody's recommending that it's acceptable to demolish the existing what is sometimes called a barn in the application and sometimes called a garage. I guess that is all the questions we've got right now. We will probably deliberate at the end of the meeting tonight, Sam. You're welcome to listen in, but you can't participate at that point. Is there anything else you want to add before we close the public hearing? Thanks for the feedback. I did a little bit more of the elevations needed, but I could submit that. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Close this public hearing. And the next item is 57 South William Street, where the applicant has asked to defer this so they can provide more information. I just asked one more time, Scott, if there's anybody from the public that wanted to speak on 57 South Williams. I'd like to speak on 57 South Williams. Raise your hand, please. Okay. Yeah, I don't see anyone. I think everyone's applicant spread. Yeah. So you mentioned that the next available hearing day is May 18th, I think. Brad, that's mentioned in my memo. The 18th, the applicant actually called me an hour ago, so that falls on a holiday. So you wish to defer it to the next available one, which would be June 15th. Okay. So does somebody want to make a motion to defer this application to June 15th? Can do that. Okay. Next. So on 21-0785CA-CU-57 South Williams Street, I move that we defer action on this item and move it to our next meeting, which is June 15th. 15th. Second on that. Brooks, thank you. Discussion, all in favor? Opposed? No. So it passes unanimously. Okay, so that's 57 South William. The next item is sort of, were we doing these two together? No, these are separate items, right, Scott? Well, they're separate applications, but I did put them together because they're part of the overall, like, path reconstruction. Can we look at them both at the same time? Is that? I don't see why not. Okay. So we're going to do both, which is basically the, I can call it the recreation path reconstruction. That's really what it is, I think. Yeah. 68 College Street and Zero Flynn Avenue. Brad, I'm going to be recused on this item. This is Jeff. Okay. A good number of board members ready to go on this one. So is the applicant here? Yes. Yep. So, John and Sophie, do you want to do, like, last night with conservation and Sophie, you can screen share if need be or not? Yes, we certainly can. Is there anybody else in the public who's here to speak on this one? I'm not seeing any requests, Brad. Okay. So, it's John Adams Colots and Sophie Sove, is that right? Could I swear the two of you in to, do you swear to tell the truth and hold truth on the pain and penalty of perjury? Yes, I do. Okay. So this is a public hearing on these two items. So if you want to make a presentation on this, that could be quite helpful. There's a lot of engineering drawings here, and I think there's a lot of design behind those engineering drawings. So I'll share my screen if that's okay. That'd be great. And it would be helpful if we knew what companies or firms you were representing as you make this presentation. We're representing Parks, Recreation and Waterfront City of Wellington. So it worked for Parks and Recreation? Yes. Oh, okay. Good. Thank you. So can everybody see my screen with the drawing? Okay. Yes. Great. Thank you. So just to orient everyone, this is College Street, North is to the right of the screen, and King Street is on the left side. So the realignment of the bike path here in this section follows the rail right of way. As you know, the rail will be coming in for passenger rail on the eastern side, and the bike path will be relocated to the western side of the rail, which will avoid two rail crossings that are currently the situation in this area. And then we'll also be working on the area of College Street to make that area more pedestrian and cyclist friendly in terms of tabletop elevation, where there will be a curb cut everywhere with obviously truncated domes helping everybody cross and negotiate that intersection. And so that's that part of the project. And these are the more illustrative details of the bike path, which will have our 11 foot section, 11 foot width bike path with two foot shoulders on either side. And then you can see the plaza situation here. And then I'll jump to the King 2. Here's King and here's Maple. North is again to the right of the page. So the rail comes in here, we're almost where the bike path is right now. And so the bike path is relocated to the west side of the tracks again. And in here we to be able to put the bike path in, we have an easement from Lake Champlain Transportation. And in lieu of the parking that they're losing along this edge because of the bike path, we are transforming part of Perkins Peers, moving the edge of Perkins Peer over to reallocate that parking for Lake Champlain Transportation from Perkins Peer into their parking lot. And that's the city or the bike path project in the realignment. And then I can jump to the Oak Ridge portion of the project if that's helpful. Sure. John, do you want to take this one on? Yeah, I can walk you through this. So we are set to finish the bike path with the section that goes through the southern three quarters or so of Oak Ridge Park. We'll start running through the design down at Austin Drive at the southern border where we have an entry gateway that we were able to build with a donation from a family that will feature an oval of exposed aggregate concrete embedded boulders and a bench and some nice plantings. And the alignment will there then follow through the woods on the existing alignment. And then at a certain point to the north, it will deviate from the existing alignment that currently goes into the parking lot. And go along the western border of the parking lot where it fronts the upper pavilion we refer to that as and keeps it completely out of the parking lot and also out of the wetland area at the edge of the parking lot. And in the area of the pavilion there'll be a number of trees planted, oak trees, additional bike parking, and better access and egress from the parking lot. And from there we start heading up the hill at an ADA compliant grade and rejoining the existing alignment up towards the top. And then we go down through the woods and to keep our footprint narrow there, we have a short section of native boulder retaining wall that'll be built into the slope up by where the chimneys and foundations are. A couple of resting spots because coming downhill, the grade is about 7%. So we'll have a couple of places where people can stop and sit on a bench if they're having trouble negotiating that slope. It's the same that exists there now. And again, like Sophie mentioned, the consistent cross section here is the 211 to 11 feet of asphalt and two foot gravel shoulders on either side of the path. And now continuing to the north, we're heading down towards the lower pavilion. We've got a formalized trail access at the most used access point to the outcroppings over the lake and up by where the chimneys and old cabins are. And then as we come down lower in elevation, we are adding a pad for exercise equipment paid for by a donation from UVM Med Center and similar to the exercise pads that are out in the urban reserve. And next to that is a vendor pad, likely initially used by the paddle surf Champlain vendor that's currently at the park. And now we are at the intersection with Flynn Avenue. And to deal with the sort of confluence of many modes and cross traffic at that location, we've expanded the paving to a larger exposed aggregate oval so everyone can negotiate their way through that intersection. And then towards the lake, we have a universally accessible access to the beach that is less than 5% sloped ramp and then also a straightforward set of stairs down and built to withstand flooding and wave action from the floodwaters that we get in that area. Impervious paving going out to Flynn Ave and a drop off spot for small watercraft and then moving further to the north, we have a short section that completes and matches up to the work that was done last fall. That's kind of the overview in a nutshell. So Brad, I'll just pipe in briefly and say observation board looked at this last night and recommended approval as is. Sophie also sent me a lot of coverage information and I think it was around 9%. Anyways, it was acceptable. The upper limit is 15, so that was all set. Okay. And I did not mention that this is a public project. We have a limited purview, but I think most of the issues on this are within the purview that we have, which is traffic and landscaping, I think. It's accurate, isn't it, Scott? Yeah. I just want to pipe in and say, I think this is exciting and wonderful. I'm somebody who's driven, ridden the bike path thousands and thousands of times over the last 20 years and I just think it's a wonderful amenity in the city and I think their improvements have been great and I think it's really wonderful that these things are happening. So I want to put that out there. I have a question on College Street intersection. I was looking at the plans and I can't tell from looking at the plans what's really going on at the street level. My concern really is that, yes, it's better because one doesn't cross the railroad tracks again going there. It is the juncture of a lot of different modes of transportation, pedestrians and bicyclists and people who really don't know where they're going. And really when you're coming down the recreation path and you want to cross at some indistinct angle to end up on the recreation path on the north side when you're coming from the south side, is there anything that really directs people as to where they're going? Well, sorry. When you're coming from the south, there'll be indicators of change of material to slow people down on the surface themselves on both ends and there's our usual... I will point out you rotated this plane 90 degrees, didn't you? Yes, correct. So this is north. Yes, sorry. Yes. And then there's our usual Burlington Greenway signage which will be installed on the northern side to indicate that entrance to the park but also the existing trees won't be impacted and I think that's also in terms of visibility a directional queue to enter the path on that side. It seems to me though, when you're coming down the bike path, you're heading almost north, a little bit west of north and you're aiming for a spot across the street that is nothing. And if you don't know where you're going, you get to that point, you don't know if you're going right or left and there's really nothing in the pavement. I couldn't tell that you've got all kinds of things going on in other drawings that indicate brick patterns or something else happening in the street. Is there anything happening in the street that really connects the pathway across? Not the pathway per se but the whole plaza, what we call it, the extension basically of the material of echo is meant to slow everybody down to make that decision. So the idea is not that everybody knows or is speeding through but that everybody slows down to make that decision as they arrive into the college street intersection. And what is that material? It's exposed aggregate concrete. Is that the scoring pattern that was seen there? There's a scoring pattern, yes, in it as well. And that's what's showing here? Yes, that's correct. And Brad, we did consider demarcating the path across the intersection but in the end, after going back and forth a couple times, decided that it should be more of a unified plaza-like space and we figure with the signage and the continuity of materials on either side that it should be readily apparent where people go to cross. Well, I would suggest you go down there on a Sunday afternoon when it's nice and warm with a lot of tourists in town and you'll notice that people don't know where they're going. They stop and they pause in the middle of the street, they head to the sidewalk, all kinds of places and if you're really biking along there or if you're running along there, you pretty much have to either stop or go off the path or do something because it's just a congestion point that doesn't really seem to encourage people to move through it. And this to me is going to encourage people more to pause to that. And maybe that's what you want, I don't know. Well, I think in a way we were trying to embrace the idea that that happens and I think we know that people that know the path, I just was there an hour ago and watched someone go through without even slowing down from about 20 miles an hour on a bike. Yeah, I think really it was designed to accommodate, not necessarily encourage, but the idea that this is really a central gathering space and at some point we kind of need everyone to pause there because there are so many people. But I think with the signage on either side, the entry to the bike path to the north into Waterfront Park is opened up and made continuous more with this paving pattern. I think the connection and the safety factor there will be much stronger than it was very as currently. My preferred time on the bike path is six o'clock in the morning, so it's Brad, I think you'll be set. Yeah, I'm pretty set now on that. I'm sure. Anyways, it's always to me been a concern about that intersection. And I guess from what you're saying, the choice is that it's a gathering place and the recreation path has to be secondary to the gathering at that place. Yeah, I guess that's how we describe it. It's a real hub on the Waterfront and I think we decided to embrace it is that and obviously you can go through the hub to cruise on the bike path north and south. But during a big event, it really does become a plaza and it's wall to wall people. So we decided to embrace that and that'll only be more true. I think with the rail traffic and passengers getting off at this intersection. And the other question I was just going to ask, is there any, you mentioned landscaping that's happening at Oak Ledge and is there any landscape that happens in the section between King and College? Yes, trees. Yep, significant plantings on the strip between the new bike path and Echo entry. We had to take a number of larger trees, many of them ash and cottonwood out and were more than exceeding the numbers of what was removed with new canopy trees and understory. Overall, I think it's a beautiful path so I'm happy to see it be maintained. Any other questions with the board, any comments or questions from the board? Yeah, I have a couple of comments and questions on the southern end of this down by Oak Ledge. So like Brad, I am probably on this path many, many, many, many times. And I got a couple of questions about where this runs. And similar to what Brad just talked about at these sort of high traffic intersections, I'm curious about the design. So first though, if you go back to what you had just up, yeah, that part. So a couple of things. One, will access to Blanchard Beach be maintained throughout the whole period of the work? The way this is coming together to be staged, I mean, the easy answer is yes, but not from the obvious standpoint, you'll always be able to get in from the north. So I may have a problem with that. And I'll tell you why, because I watched when this section of the path was closed for, I'm going to be nice and generous and say two years, but we know it was two and a half. And I watched people climb over every fencing that you put up. And I did it myself, because after a year of it being closed, we all got super tired of it being closed. And it was opened rather unceremoniously in December of this year. And so if you try to close off Blanchard Beach from Oakledge Park, that's going to be a problem. So in my view, it's going to be a problem, because it's also not going to be safe, because people are going to go down to that beach. If you go down there on any summer day, it is packed. It's packed with people walking their dogs, with people hanging out, and it's an important public resource. So in my view, the answer is yes, access to Blanchard Beach will be maintained throughout the duration of this project. And I think that's a reasonable accommodation to a public resource that people have used and enjoyed for a long time. So that's a concern I had looking at this. And I know contractors don't like to deal with that stuff, but I don't want someone walking through this construction site to go down to the beach and get hurt, and they will do that. I can guarantee you they will do that. So the other question I have is, why are you redoing a path that was just repaved? North of that intersection is all fresh and brand new paving. Why is that getting redone? AJ happy to respond to that. We are basically meeting up at the point we left off last year. That section of path was actually closed for about three months at the end of the season last year. And I'm also curious, is it the purview of the DRB to talk construction sequencing, Scott? Well, I think it is as a matter of our purview under traffic and safety. And I think we can attach conditions. Is that the argument we want to have? I'm not interested in that at all. We're sequencing the project to start in the south, and likely the end of the beach season will be upon us by the time we approach this particular section. And I think I can answer the question about the pavement. When we completed the section last year at this end where the cursor is, we were not certain of funding to be able to come back and complete this stretch, and we had redone the culvert. So we just did an overlay in this section in case it was several years before we could come back and complete the project. So it wasn't completed to the full standard width. It was just done to repair the concrete in the interim in case COVID extended funding challenges from completing the project perspective. And the access, where are you on the access to the beach during construction? For this coming year? Yeah. So as John was mentioning, the beach will be accessible throughout, and we will be recommending to the contractor to not open the whole stretch to construction, but to do it in phases so that the beach can remain open as long as possible throughout the major periods of summer. And then when we get to this area, as what John was mentioning, we will likely be at the fall at the beginning of September is what we're anticipating, but we don't know that yet because we don't have a contractor on board yet. But during that period, the lake view or lakeside neighborhood access point will still be open for the beach. It's the Flynn Avenue area that would be closed to the public for safety purposes. So is the intention of the bike path that's under construction at one time is this whole south end that we're saying that not the one that's just on the screen, but the one to the south of that? So sorry, I'm not sure I understood the question. Well, I'm trying to figure out how much of this is under construction at the same time. Is it from Austin Drive to the north end of what you're just showing here? Likely a third of it at a time. Probably from Austin Drive to the upper shelter. We'll go first. And then we're looking at the middle section between the two shelters. And then the section with the beach access will be last. So I guess I have an add on question along AJ's line. Questioning. So the middle section then would be during summer and the pedestrian traffic would then be redirected into the roadway between the two parking lots? Well, the limit of disturbance is just within the bike path corridor, essentially. So pedestrian access to the beach is what you're referring to or to the rest of the park? To the rest of the park, since this does cross, like it's crossing in front of the pavilion and the pathway there. So that little the cove, will that access be? Well, and that that's where we're hoping it'll be in three different portions so that there's access from different from around. We wouldn't have a straight shot from the parking lot, from the upper parking lot necessarily, but you could still access the cove during that period of time. And then it'd be the reverse kind of detour once that section of the bike path is open. It does seem that it's not unusual in construction processes to consider public access during construction. And it just seems I think that's really what's being asked for here is that. Oh, yes. As this is being constructed, even though it's a very nice public amenity, but there's a public amenities that are going to be want to be used. And just, oh, I think we're asking for some commitment that there will be a way to find a way for the public to safely get to the park that's open really. And that's been part of our discussions all along. And it's our intent to when we bring on the contractor to have that discussion of how to phase it so that the public can access as much of the park as possible. That is definitely a high concern for all of us on this side. And we appreciate that. And, you know, part of my line of questioning is because I saw the detour plans and I'm very familiar with what's on the other side of, I'm going to call it the stone, the oak ledge stone hedge bridge. And if this was being constructed in June and July, and the only access to that beach was from that end, you're going to have a parking problem very quickly. That would fill up instantaneously. I don't remember what we call that now that we put a sign up to it. And so this park gets absolutely slammed all summer long. And it's a tremendous resource. It's a great place. And the concern that I'm trying to express that has been said maybe more articulately is that we have to respect those public access points in rebuilding this. And we have to preserve that public access during our very short and much appreciated summer season. And I know a lot of people in this end are sensitive to how long the rest of the bike path was closed. And I know that was an issue for many people. And we're trying to respect that. It's going to be great when it's done. Fantastic. Looks great. Will be great. What's been built is great. But I think we need to really have some sensitivity to preserving the park's utility during this period. And we agree. We've been working towards this to that end with park staff and also DPW staff in trying to plan for the logistics of a detour, but also at the same time accommodating as much of the public within this much loved park as possible throughout this summer, especially this summer. And we're very cognizant that everyone will be eager to get out when the weather turns back again to Oak Ridge. So we're very aware of that. And that's where we're trying to envision phasing so that one parking lot is not impacted while the other might have some staging in it or a staging on the grass and then reversing the order. And then also the sequencing from south to north was with keeping the beach access open as long as possible in mind. What is this anticipated start date for this? Well, the project is out to bid currently. The bids come in mid-May and then we'll be going to Board of Finance and City Council towards the end of the month. So not before June. Duration of construction. Approximately 20 weeks. Oh, this construction season. Yes. Does that give the paving while the paving plants are open? Yes. The end date is November 19th. And paving plants usually close the 20th or something around Thanksgiving. Yes. Okay. Other questions from the board on this? So we will probably deliberate at the end of the meeting tonight, I think. So Brad, I had a quick question for Sophie about parking. That was an open question. It seemed like you were saying there was no net change when you touched on that ferry company property. Okay. So can you confirm that there's no net change in parking numbers or is there? Sorry. In terms of Lake Champlain Transportation? In terms of the two properties, is there any change in the total number of spaces, either up or down? Well, Lake Champlain Transportation loses five spaces by the bike path coming in. And they'll gain eight. So three extra from the Perkins Pier, the way that the layout happened, that's the configuration. And then we'll lose approximately seven parking spaces at Perkins. So Perkins goes down by seven. LCT goes up. The ferry company goes up by three. Three, yes. Yeah. And net three. Yeah, three. Just to have a quick question, Sophie, how many public meetings have you been through on this? On these projects? Yeah, on the bike path projects, yeah. Not very many yet. I've only been in the position for a year and a half, so I'll just make that disclaimer. Okay. Okay, I was just curious. I've been to many board of finance and city council meetings on it, but that's been an implementation so far. Okay. You're doing a good job, Sophie. Thank you. I couldn't do it without John. Okay, any other comments on the board or anything that Sophie or John wants to add before we close the public hearing? I had just one clarifying question on the College Street section. For the landscaping, all of the new trees and removed trees are on that western side, so there's no landscaping happening between the rail and the bike path? No, unfortunately, because it's rail property, they do not allow or do not want any plantings there, and we don't have a say in it. We did try to get some planting here, especially because the rail or the track is coming here and there will be this open space, but they would not budge. Our preference would be to add planting everywhere, but we didn't get that far. Thank you. Comments or anything? We'll close the public hearing at this point. Thank you, Sophie and John. Yeah, thank you, John. Okay, we have one other item on our agenda tonight, which is 184-186 North Windowsky Avenue. Is the applicant here for that? The applicant is, yep. Is that Missa? Yep. Missa, the phone number probably is gone. All right, Missa, you can speak. Do you want a screen share or no? No, I'll just... And Ryan, you said the phone as well. I'm guessing that's the other applicant as well. Okay. Is there any, I think there's no public tonight, Scott? Actually, do you have a couple more folks in the queue, so who knows, maybe they want to talk. Is there anybody else who wants to speak on 184-186 North Windowsky Avenue? This is Brett Barasso. I'm the owner. I'm present. Okay. Anybody in the public, Scott? Raise your hands. The little blue hand function in Zoom, if you'd like to speak to this item. All right. Nobody's raising their hand, Brad. Okay, so it's Missa and who was the owner's name? This is Brett Barasso. Brett, okay. Roger. I will ask both of you to swear in that you would swear to tell the truth and hold truth on the pain and penalty of perjury. Do you? Yes, I do. Okay. So again, this is presented as a lot of stuff neatly packaged here, I almost say. And so I don't know how you want to make a presentation. Missa or Brett? Yeah. And Missa will run this. Okay. Yep. If you want to go to the site plans or the drawings. So the ones you submitted today? Yeah. There wasn't just a point of clarification, Scott. There wasn't a new site plan today, was there? This was the installation drawings. No, I didn't submit a new site plan today. However you want to go through it, Missa. I'll just go through the elevation drawing so you can see the existing apartment building to the left on the west elevation. And there's a nice southern side yard there that we're going to do an infill project for a four unit apartment building that's three stories high, much like the neighboring property to the south. There's addition to the back of that apartment building that's equal in height and scale right nearby with very modern materials as well. So you can see in the front on the west elevation, there's a door to unit one on the front there facing the street and a covered walkway that then leads down the north elevation, which is on the next slide to the remaining units. Sorry, that's the south side. If you go down to the, so you see the other two entrance doors right there, the mailboxes are at the corner facing the road. And we have a covered walkway for snow protection and illumination that connects the from the street side to the parking lot in the back. And it's a four four units total. The two upper ones have four bedrooms, the two lower ones are two bedroom units. The DAB requested snow guards on the roof, which we have added here. And they also requested future solar panels on the south side to see what that would look like on the south side. So you're not planning on the solar panels at this time? Correct. And what is the roofing right now? Asphalt. Site plan two. So that's the existing site plan. There's a current garage that's vacant in the back that you can see hashed in there that we're going to remove. And this is the new site plan showing the, oh, yep. I had submitted a revised site plan from the previous one to the DAB. Maybe that didn't make it over here. So, but it was submitted to Ryan for the previous one. So, but it did show that the building was moved back to a line with the front of the property to the north. So there's more of a buffer there. Can you show us where the property lines are, especially on the north and south sides? Sure. The north property line is kind of the line that cuts through the driveway there. You can see it. And it runs kind of around its rate. It's at that odd angle, that sharp angle right there and another sharp angle and continues down. And it deviates from the fence on the south side. You can see the long dash and the two small dashed lines that are just north of the fence line. It's at an odd angle. As per the stormwater requirements, we are going to get the locations of the property lines pinned for survey points to finish the stormwater component of this application. Is this a zero setback on this neighborhood? It's zero except for the eastern side facing residential zoning, so that garage side has a 15-foot side setback. And then the rest are zero. That was one thing I was confused about. It's impressive how much function you put into these four units, right? It's 700 square feet and 1400 square feet, is that about right? This is more a curiosity question in terms of the roof edge, zero overhang. So you've got some kind of flashing detail going around that thing? Correct. Yeah. We didn't have your sections in our... No. Correct. Very much like the southern property, it's just a flashing drip edge on their roof. Keeping it modern. Yeah. Any questions from the board on this? I have two questions. First one is, are all of the trash and recycling receptacles, or is the truck able to back down the driveway and access all of that right there in some type of shed or something like that? The enclosure? Well, it's 11-foot-six, so whether or not they choose to back in all the way or not, but the recycling is right there at the edge at the end in an enclosure, and it's going to have wheelbill bins that can come out. I'm not pervy to say whether the trash truck feels comfortable backing in there or not. I believe a trash truck is 10, maybe nine feet. So the door of the enclosure faces the driveway? That driveway, yep, to make it easy with the gate. And then in regards to parking, is the way that you've rendered everything back in, are they going to be back in only spots or are you free to pull in or back in? You can do it however you choose to park. Okay. And there's enough room there for spot... Eight. Yeah, eight to pull in to back out. Yeah, you'd have to pull in and then back out and then kind of three-point turn it out. But yeah, that one would be tricky to back into. You'd have to have somebody really determined to back into that spot. Okay. And that's all paved as well. Is that right? Brett, I believe currently there's some paved and with patch. Yeah. Right now, when the garage comes down, that's all slab. So we were going to utilize that and then the existing pavement will butt up against that. And will those spaces be striped? Spaces one and two? Yeah. I mean, they will be striped. We'll have markers as well on the ground to let them know. Because my intent is to assign those to the various units because, as you know, parking is bare. And so I want to make sure that we can allocate and denominate the number to the unit. So that'll be the easiest way to keep track of the tenants. Because if parking space two doesn't park in parking space two, it gets tough for four, five, six, seven to get out, right? If they're too far that way. Yeah. Agreed. Those two trees new, actually three trees on the front. Is that on a landscaper? Correct. There should be a revised site plan. There is if you scroll down, Scott, to the fourth, that one. Don't go up one. That one shows. That's not a full site plan, but no, it's not. But that's what Missa gave me. Yeah. I could provide a planting plan. Yeah. The shrubs that are in the planting bed to the north, they obviously have to be shade resistant. And the trees, you know, we want to do some deciduous trees. Those two to the parking lot. I can identify those. I can add that's a condition of the permit that I put in there to identify the species and such. So it's in there. This is Jeff. Missa, I may have missed this, but it looks like the DAB recommended removing that sign on the third floor of the building. And maybe that was dealt with in your revised plans. We just don't have yet. Correct. If you, I think it's gone on that western side. Yep. Got it. And then I'm a little confused between the two buildings that some of the plans look like there's a covered porch and a walkway between the two buildings. And then some of the plans look like it's just a covered porch. And maybe you could, maybe the plantings will help clarify that, but it's a little unclear. Yeah. If you go down to that site plan, that last one that was just shown right there, yeah. So that walkway that you see, you essentially see all the posts right there, that is all covered. The only part that that's not covered is where it connects to the building to the north. Okay. Okay. Got it. Breaking up a little bit, but it connects to the building to the north. Is that what it is? Yeah, there's a door in a walkway over there currently to the other apartment. What's the access to the parking lot from the, is there, because I don't see any steps off the back here where the parking is? There would be steps and it goes to the parking lot. So I guess if you go to the other site plan, that doesn't show the steps, but there would be steps that lead at the edge of that building down to the walkway that's next to the parking there, or the bike shelters off of. So just the steps would come off to the north of that that, that walk, that porch. So does that mean folks in the north building walk on the covered walkway? Yeah, that's they would to access, but they currently don't right now. They access through the driveway that's their access to the front of that house. And so which one of the units is the is accessible? Sorry, go ahead Brad, you're finishing. I was just starting to know that she's breaking up and then we're not hearing a lot of what you're saying. Missa? Yeah, I'm here. Can you hear me now? Yeah, you're clear to be Brad. Yeah, Brad, I think that may be your, your connection because we can hear, I can hear a fine degree. Okay, maybe it's my connection. So I wanted to go back to that plan. So we're on that site plan that has the landscaping, if you can hear me, you show stone in front of the covered walk. So that stone is actually a walkway? No, the the the deck would that porch would be used as as a walkway for all all the north and the south buildings. The stone is there because there's you know, you have a roof to the north that that is going to drain right in that location. And it's the void of any sort of daylight. So there's no real plantings that would probably survive in that location. So that would be on the site. Yeah, site plan A02 shows it as a cause it as a walkway. Correct. The site plan was not revised from this drawing. This drawing was provided for the DAB meeting, but the site plan needs to be revised based on this drawing. Got it. Yep. And Missa, can you identify the handicap accessible units? The unit one. Unit one. For right now, it's unit one. It could be either unit one or unit two. Okay, but it looks like on the front of that design, you've got steps going up to the maybe I'm just misreading the design, but it looks like there's steps going up to the porch for unit one. And it's not like you just said there were steps in the back of the porch. So you're asking where would an ADA ramp be located? Yeah, we could put a ADA ramp to the south of that that porch that led to the sidewalk. So sort of adjacent to that bedroom window. On the front. Yeah, it seems like we need at least one accessible unit. So I'm not don't want to design it for you, but I just don't see that accessible. That would be the great location for it. Okay, so maybe when you update for the other. That's like plan show the ADA ramp. Yeah. Sure. Questioning my connection here. Is anybody speaking right now? No. Yeah. Okay. Are there any other questions from the board for the app? And I think you froze up a bit. Yeah. All right, AJ, you're up. Yep. AJ, we need a vice chair to close things out. All right. So if there are no more questions, but from the board, we've pulled the public. Scott or any members of the public wanting to comment? No one raised their hand. All right, then let's close this public hearing item. That closes up our agenda for the night. AJ, just briefly, this is something you can deal with in deliberative. But Caitlin has offered up her name to be the board's rep on the Planning Commission, Ordinance Committee. So kind of like the annual organizational meeting that can be taken care of with the board vote, either now or in deliberative. Student deliberative. I think that's when we normally do it. Yep. Hey, Brad, you're back. I am. I got booted off somehow. Close it. Close the public hearing at this point. I did that for you. I closed it for you already. Okay. Well, that happened. I was out in cyberspace. And I was going to say how does the board feel about deliberating right now? If you all would consider doing the one I'm recused from after the other ones, that would be much appreciated. Do you want to do the bike path last then, Jeff? That'd be great. Great. Okay. Brad, run with it. Okay. So our first item is 180 North Street. That was the garage addition, addition to the rear. And my real comment on that was just that I think that they should submit full elevation drawings, which is what the CDO requires, I think. Other than that, I didn't have any issues with it. Does anybody have other issues with it? Have a 180 North Street. Does somebody want to make a motion on 180 North Street? How do you want to deal with the site plans you requested? I would ask that they submit them to staff for record. That's really at this point. If people are okay with that, that would be fine with me. It's just, I think sometimes we get a little lax in terms of some of the documents that get submitted. And I think it's helpful to have that in a record. Okay. Well, I can make a motion on 180 North Street, which is 21-0837CA. I move that we prove the application, adopt staff findings and recommendations with the added condition that the applicant submit the full elevation plans. Brad, to staff for the file. Do we have a second on that? Second to that. Brooks, thank you. Any discussion? All in favor? Opposed? So we have a lot of density happening on these two projects between North Street and North Manuski. Interesting. And the next one would be North Manuski Avenue since we're skipping the bike path stuff. Again, really, I think a good set of plans, a little confusion in terms of not having that one site plan updated, but I guess she has that and we can ask for that to be submitted. It didn't sound like the ramp was not designed. Yeah, I'm not sure what that will do to the design in terms of where they were saying they were going to put it. It's a little unclear if that's going to be right on the street facing side. So I'm not too concerned about it, but it might be worth talking about briefly. I think that was probably when I made my little journey through cyberspace as you were talking about the ramp. So that from the sidewalk to get up to the covered walkway. Yes. How it was described. I mean, I guess my other question would be if there's only one in the front. What is the access from parked vehicle? It seems like you would need both ways. That's for handicapped access. Is that what you're? Yeah, that's the question. Yeah. I mean, they need to have one accessible unit. Staff indicated that that was met, but I just, I didn't see which of the units was accessible and they indicated they'd make, you know, one the accessible unit. When we look at, it's not clear on the plans that that bathroom is accessible. That's more in the purview of TPW that they review the interior plans. For the accessible unit, does that require accessible parking as well? Because the parking lot was pretty tight. So does that, does that not matter because there's not a parking requirement here? There is not a parking requirement on this building, right? Correct. There's no parking minimum. That space eight, one that you couldn't back into, does that space on the side of it. It's interesting. If they have an accessible unit, are we going to, if they're not required to have parking, but they have an accessible unit, are they required to have an accessible parking space? I think that's through the building code too, Brad. It would make sense. I don't know is a short answer. Yeah. I mean, one of the funny things about access is that the code is written that you're supposed to have access to the quote, unquote main entrance. You don't often see the ADA requiring access to more than one point, even though there are sometimes exits that have stairs and go, how do they get out? But so having just one end of that thing be accessible is pretty typical of how it works. And whether that's from the street or from the rear, either one would probably be compliant. But if they've got one, two, three steps up, they'll never make it from the front of the sidewalk side. And they do have enough room on the rear that they could have a long ramp going down to the parking lot. I mean, to me, this one is not as clear as the other. I've just like submit a plan to me. I don't know what this looks like with a ramp. Yeah, that's a problem. I have them submit additional plans. Joe, handicap access. And do we want to have to come back to us or go back to staff? I think they have to come back to us. Okay. So then we will end connect. We'd make a motion to reopen the hearing. Yeah. Take additional evidence on the handicapped accessible unit. Right. Any other issues, just if we're reopening it, just want to make sure we're not just addressing this one issue. Well, it seems like they could at the same time clean up the site plan modifications that they had. Yeah, staff had asked for some commentary about updated planting plans. That would be appropriate too. Yeah, we could ask them to confirm if there will be a designated handicap parking spot or not. So is there a motion that covers those kind of things? I'll make a motion. I'll do it. I'll make a motion to reopen the public hearing to have applicant come back with plans for the accessible access. I don't even know how to say this. It's the appropriate term. The ADA. Appropriate access. Applying access to the property. That's it. And the second on that one before we, is there a second? I'll second that. Okay. We also wanted to have them present the landscaping plan of that. Is that okay? Okay. And then. I think there were some other confirmatory site plan changes. Okay. So those three, the ADA access, the landscaping and the cleaned up site plan. And specifically the, will there be a parking, will there be a handicap parking spot or not? I think that's should be in there too. There's no more things. Any further discussion on this? All in favor? Opposed? Okay. So we have item to go. Thank you. See you in two weeks. Jeff. So we have the bike path, recreation path. That's really what it is. Which I think it's great that they're doing it. I think the two issues that we pointed up, one is I would think, you know, based on AJ's comments and they could have a plan for maintaining public access during construction to Blanchard Beach. And maybe they have to come back with that. I mean, I think it can be a condition of approval that public access to Blanchard Beach shall be maintained during this project. It doesn't seem that hard. No, it's not that hard. And the reason I bring it up, not to be the jerk about this, but the reason I bring it up is because everybody I know who lives down in the south end with me has complained that that bike path was closed for years. And when they reopened it, they reopened it in December, unceremoniously, and it has been so heavily used. And it wasn't even plowed that when this is closed, and it's 20 months, that you might as well call it like, it's 20 weeks, you might as well call it a year for the way these projects proceed. And they'll close it. And I watch people climb over sharp metal fences just to use this thing. And someone's going to do that to get to this beach. And they're going to say, why is it closed like this? And let's just head that problem off the pass. And I don't think it's that hard of a request. I agree with what you're saying. I think everybody agrees with what you're saying. It's incredibly frustrating. And people should have access to Blanchard Beach. They're going to get there one way or the other. So they're going to maintain access to Perkins Pier throughout this. They're going to maintain access to Echo and the waterfront. I'd say access to Blanchard Beach must be maintained from Oakledge Park. This idea that you come in off Proctor Place is just going to create a nightmare. I mean, we've all seen that. That's like parking space for one car. Yeah. I would like to specify that for like the rest of the park. It was unclear to me because the bike path cuts across the entire park and cutting off that cove area that there's some plan for that as well. So what you're saying is that there should be access to Blanchard Beach. And also there should be access to the, I don't know what they call that, that little finger that goes down with is that other little beach? I don't know what. Which like, and it's not just the, but like the pavilion, like there's a big section of the park that you have to get from the parking to that part of the park. You have to cross the bike path. That's right. There's access to Blanchard Beach and access to the rest of the park that is west of the parking area. Yeah. Okay. And that's the same thing I agree with you, AJ, from that. From, yeah. From the parking within a parking lot. Yeah. Flint Avenue and Austin Drive. Okay. And how about your eloquent motion here, AJ? All right. Sure. I'll try it. Scott, what's the two addresses on, I got it, on zero Flint Avenue and six dash eight college street. I move that we approve the applications and on the project to one dash 087 for CA zero Flint Avenue. We approve it subject to the condition that public access to Blanchard Beach and the amenities of the park located west of the parking areas and access drive be maintained at all times throughout construction from the Oakledge Park itself. So second. Second. Any further discussion on this one? I guess my only question is, are we confident that that is enough to ensure that basically the entire shoreline in the park as well? I think once you get to the beach, you can get around the rest of those routes. People will be okay with that. And if you can get down to the cove, I think people will be okay with that. The middle section of the path does cut off that where the cliff is or something. Yeah. But I think you can get to either side of that. Yeah. You'll be able to do the, I mean, picnic on the rocks and you'll be able to do all the stuff that people love doing there. You want to be more specific that the access isn't from Oakledge Park, but that it's from the parking lots? Yes. Great. Friendly amendment that access is from the parking lots at Oakledge Park. And who seconded this? I did. So you're okay with that amendment. Okay. Other comments? Well, the only question that I had, not throwing a monkey wrench into this, but did we want to do anything to address? Because your point was well taken, Brad, that at the other end of the bike path where they didn't really clearly demarcate, and I don't know what the decision was for this, but other than that they wanted to keep it plaza-like, but demarcate where the bike path connected from one end to the other. Do you want to address that or do you find it? I see their point. I mean, I think it causes people to slow down. And some people, there are some people with a reckless gene that will never slow down, but it causes people to slow down to try to figure out where the bike path picks up on the other side. And if you put a sign there, they're gonna follow the sign and may never slow down. Yeah, I mean, I'm somewhat resigned to it. The issue is that if people knew where the bike path was, they may not actually park this stroller in the middle of it. That's what they do. Well, you know, wouldn't that be a perfect world if people followed their... Yeah, that's a funny you think that, Brad. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I have no faith that a sign would cause those people to move their stroller. I'm happy that if they really do have a plaza-like that it will be okay. Right now, one of the challenges is when you try to void everybody, your wheel gets caught in the tracks. So now you're not going to be going for the tracks. So that's going to help. So anyways, I'm okay. The other thing I would consider here is by stipulating that they have to have access from the south, from the parking lot, do we risk losing the access from the north? Should we ask to ensure that access is available from both directions throughout the entire project? Well, you mean on the Blanchard Beach thing? Yeah. No, because the end of the project only goes... It stops before that stops. So you'll always be able to get down from the other side. But what's going to happen is people are going to go down Flynn, not have any clue, climb over stuff. You know, that's going to be the problem. Okay. I was just worried that maybe they would then move staging stuff to the north and then cut that side off and then you just have... No, because that would exceed the scope of their project plans. I'm good with it. And we have one more item, electing Caitlyn, a representative for the long-term planning. No, the Planning Commission Ordinance Committee. So moved. I'll second. All in favor. What would you vote? Hopefully no. All right. Cool. Good meeting. All right. Scott, when are we going to be back in person? I don't know. I asked if I was at B last week and it's under discussion. 2022 is your answer there, Scott. Yeah, I don't miss driving to Westford for a zoning hearing at 8 p.m. on a Thursday. Yeah. It is nice being home when you're done. Yeah. I'm not home when I'm done, but yeah, I get it. Yeah. Right. Close to it. Closer. All right. See you in a bit. Take care, everyone.