 and welcome. My name is Ellen David Friedman. I am very proud to be here to host this webinar. I'm a member of the board of Labor Notes. Labor Notes, as many listeners will know, is a 40-year-old media and education project. We publish a monthly magazine, books, conferences, educational events, and so on, and have tried to keep alive for these 40 years the incredibly important impulse of radical, rank-and-file, democratic unionism, both in the US and wherever we see it bringing up around the entire world. It is an impulse which, in our darkest times of economic inequality, always proves itself to be invaluable and we see it again on the rise in recent years. Tonight we have a very unique opportunity. I'm quite grateful to the three other sisters in our labor movement who have joined us to be able to talk about an extraordinary event that many of us have unfolded over the last, over the last almost five months in which people have been taking their lives, their fates, their livelihoods, their physical well-being into their hands week after week in Hong Kong, sometimes as many as one or two million people on the street demanding a preservation and in fact an expansion of their democratic rights of speech, of assembly, and of political representation. This is a moment of unparalleled militancy in modern history. We have seen signs of disform, of last week's spontaneous insurgency, growing continuously since the financial crisis in 2008, but we have not ever seen something this sustained, this emergent and mature as it keeps changing and adapting to the forms of repression it faces. So we are here tonight to learn more about this, to learn about it from a perspective that is not most often paid attention to in the media and that is to focus on the questions of inequality, economic privilege, and economic want that have apparently made hundreds of thousands of Hong Kongers willing to take tremendous risks. We're going to explore some of that background and what the labor environment is in Hong Kong and the roles and relationship of organized and unlawfulized by first turning to Carl Gung who is the president of the Federation in Hong Kong, the Hong Kong Confederation of Trade Unions. This is there are two federations of trade unions in Hong Kong. The other one is HKCTU, is understood to be the one affiliated with the Indian Land Government. HKCTU is a central player in the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong and has been for many years. Carol, welcome and we'd like to ask you to start us off by giving us a sort of a general background, the economic and critical conditions you believe is led to this, the role that HKCTU has played in the pro-democracy movement. Before we turn to you, I am hearing some considerable feedback from somebody or static in the background. I would ask if it's possible for other panelists to place themselves in mute while they're not speaking, that might help. Thanks very much. And Carol, please begin. Right. Okay. Just a very quick update so far the situations because there were five demands developed since the movement and until today these five demands except only one, one point have been met by the government but the rest of the four are still not. So you can see nearly those approved or non-approved rally or the protest happening each weekend. The clashes between the police and the activists have been increasingly violent. With the police firing live bullets and protesters attacking officers and throwing petrol bombs and in some places which carrying strong Chinese capital behind. And whilst the city remained unrest but the Hong Kong government decided to tighten its measures through a face mask ban legislation to ban everyone who hidden their identity under a mask during any kind of the protests. At the moment none of the senior government officials including the chief executive has the intention to resign or step down. And the police brutality still occupying large amount of the complaint and the protesters were treated by the excessive violence after arrest. Victims came out at different occasions openly accused and they were suffered from different forms of torture during their detention cases including sexually harassment and sexually assault in many ways. And through the social medias of mobilization large group of the young students and non-unionized workers started to consider the civil disobedience by strike actions of together with the students workers and business together. On the following days 17 of June 5th of August 2nd and 3rd of September where the historical political strikes respectively in Hong Kong which purposely given pressure to the Hong Kong government to respond to the five demands. One of the most successful day was on the 5th of August and seven different assembly points in different places of Hong Kong who gathered over 350,000 workers and the public in one day who actually crippled the operations at the airport and most of the public transports. At the arrest those arrested protesters including certain kinds of the young professionals including young doctors, young nurses and the young airlines employees. So you can imagine the retaliations from the government through different employment measures were initiated from the beginning of August. In particular the Chinese Aviation Authority and CAAC they have warned the Cathay Pacific group at 9th of August 2019 that saying that Cathay Pacific having a safety risk warning and they demand three points of the remarks to watch this airline. Subsequently the mass dismissal wave have begun. The current figure we know the number of the employee being dismissed by different companies including Cathay's group has been reached at 36 and a new coat of conduct in Cathay Pacific group have been issued towards to the employee. To encourage them to whistle blowing means to report each other. If you not supporting the government colleagues please report to the company. Screen capture different personal social media accounts in order to report and that is a new policy of the social media restrictions and issued to the employees. So this is not the only situations happening in the employment field. The white terror it finally develops to the medical care staffs in the public hospitals especially after those protesters they need a treatment in the hospital emergency care unit and some of the protesters been reported by a certain kind of different opinions and nursing staff. So they were arrested at the hospital and also in the teachers the education failed and the secretary of education in the government department issued a different kind of communications to watch the headteachers and different high schools principles and especially the universities and councillors. Then they also telling the similar message is less support the government and do not allow these political situations develop in the schools. So different professions they all under attack and under pressure. Unions in Hong Kong we basically can fall into two main camps either belongs to HK CTU the Hong Kong confederations of trade unions or the other one HK FTU which is Hong Kong federations of trade unions. The former which is a real democratic and independent trade union and the latter which is the pro-Beijing Labour and political group and the HK FTU which is the pro-Beijing one and they also have a very close communications and relationship with the AC FTU the only single union in mainland China which is in our eyes is the belongs to the government department and these two largest independent union like professional teachers union and Hong Kong cabin crew federations they are the affiliates of HK CTU which is the pan-democratic and that's why we believe and especially these two unions members they are always under attack. Carol thank you can you give us an idea of how various groups of workers both unionized or unionized just made decisions to enter into the protest was it your observation that it was just it was sort of individuals healing the pressure to participate because of their own beliefs or were they organized within the structure of the unions that the unions were they able to support and help this or did they have to stand aside for fear of further retaliation from the government. I think the basic concept about unions in Hong Kong wasn't that wide enough in the past and the union's density in Hong Kong is about 20% it's not quite quite big but of course it's not far from some other developing countries but the situations is because the young generations are young workers they have a very weak concept about union in the past on developing the movement they certainly remember oh shall we do something similar like a union for example strike and student strike worker strike business strike if we work together we could cripple the business operations in the entire Hong Kong so let's stop Hong Kong for one day this is how they came from but they don't know the details so some of the young people when they started to organize themselves through telegram or a particular chatting forum is called LinkedIn they they're realizing it how about those traditional unions and lots of them they they still quite resist traditional unions to take the lead and because the movement itself when we first start in June the main goal for everyone is be water that means no particular leader is the leader less movement and less organized through different platforms like telegram by ourselves we we still can do things collectively without a traditional leader or platform this is how they believe but subsequently when they start to organize a big assembly they they started to touch a problem it's how about those logistic how to set up a stage in the big area who's connecting who and then they started to thinking about how about asking the expertise of HKCTU when they come to us they they're very nice people they started to discuss with us it's like we still don't want a usual big platform big leader we just work together with you is that okay of course we say okay yeah we are part of the civil society we are one member in the society so let's work together so we do it bit by bit together and also to make the the strike on 5th of august 6th because the young ones they mobilize themselves including HKCTU and the affiliates we went to the streets different subway station we down on our knees in front of the public holding our placards to begging everyone could you tomorrow just sacrifice one day for the young people just stop working one day in order to stop the city and it it just touched a lot of the people's hearts and for myself we went to the one of the railway station the main entrance we doing the white wrist banners we write something on the wrist and on the on the ribbon and tied on the public's hand and saying that tomorrow will be our strike please support and of course next morning some young young young people they start their civil disobedience movement by damaging certain subway station too it stopped the public transport basically on that morning so we able to gather the 350 000 in seven places but i think and they have a feeling they not resist the traditional union anymore they start to building working relationship with us bit by bit and alongside with the strike different sectors i i remember at least 29 different sectors that we never able to organize them they come into a group by group and they also talk about how about after the movement shall we form our own union as well so this is something we never expect that happen we only afraid is the young they are very afraid or they really mind our old-fashioned organizations they don't want us to to participate too much but actually after they taste how collective power it is how structural situations they needed so and they gradually develop among themselves less became a union this is something really great i just need to make very quick limitations in hong kong's law and the traditional union we only collect a very low amount of the dues so someone just some unions could be just collecting about maybe ten dollars less than ten us dollars a year for 12 months so that will be no strike funds able to accumulate during a strike is rather difficult to financially assist people but we learn from this now so that i think some of the unions now changing the ways they're doing and yeah again is the law itself is not very protecting in any political strike if that is a economical strike that means a labor dispute about money about terms and conditions there's still a law here in hong kong to to give a very small amount of the protections not very very good but if we talk about a political strike less focus to the government and there's no laws to cover it i think the big thing in the coming future for hong kong legislatures is how to revert such situations with no collective bargaining law in hong kong how do we work carol this was a magnificent explanation of an unusually dialectical process if you will where as you say the protesters themselves especially the young protesters came to understand what they wish to pursue a leaderless uh non hierarchical movement and yet recognizing the strength and continuity of the institutional presence of hkc2 it sounds like this is also changing your unions as well opening people up to the idea of this form of militancy it's it's a profound transformational moment thank you so much for evoking it for us let's go now from this this broad sweep of thousands of people and many many sectors and look at the particular sector of air traffic in which as we know traditionally in logistics we would have said you know for many decades it was going to be the dock workers who could sort of choke off global trade we now see of course the incredible centrality of air traffic and so we're going to return turn to rebecca sigh rebecca as people knows president of the air flight attendance association who was punished directly for her own involvement was sacked along with these 36 other employees rebecca can you please talk to us a little bit about your own decision-making process as you and your fellow union members realized that you needed to enter into these protests in various forms how you did that um hello everyone um this is rebecca and i was from my kathie dragon one of the kathie pacific group and uh seems to as everybody knows we've got a lot of assemblies and protests in hong kong and it is to about the withdrawal of the extradition bill and all the hong kong workers and of course including the um our employees our colleagues we all believe we have to come out to stand out to protect the safety and freedom of hong kong like the freedom of expression this is what we most concern so we encouraged our members to join with members from other trade unions just like organized by hong kong city year and also as well as all the hong kong people in hong kong we decided to join the protests for example the 9th of june the 12th of june are the two major protests in hong kong we got one million and two million people and we already posed on even on our website to encourage our members even your non-members as long as long as you are the workers in the aviation industries not just kathie pacific we encourage all the people to go on the street to tell everyone that we connect with hong kong people and we believe um every time when we're calling for support from the public i mean the aviation industry like even our unions we got a big support and like we got a lot of support from the public and we hope by telling everyone that we are willing to go out to walk together with all the hong kong people to show although we are all always working in the sky but actually we do know what's happening in hong kong as well because hong kong is still after all our hometown and we believe the 5th of august the citywide strike uh that we call our members to support as well did trigger the chinese government we believe it is a trigger point that why we are being targeted by the chinese aviation authority because they know the sit-in in july 26 of july we have organized also like carol mentioned we help those young kids to organize a sit-in in the airport and there's 11 hours sitting in the airport and everybody has witnessed how successful it was because they know the hong kong international airport is a very safe place to do the protest and they know the protest organized or we call we call workers working together with the young generation could make the things so successful and peaceful and we effectively tell everyone what we want and what are the five demands and what the young generation how dedicated they are to and the efforts put in in this whole movement and we are very glad that all our members they don't care about really they don't care about their career but they care about the future of hong kong more so although we actually we're glad even our chairman former chairman john slosa has made a speech after the fifth of august strike he made a speech in a conference on seventh in his speech he said he respects all the staff in kathie pacific group we're talking about like almost 30 000 staff and he did say that with all those staff who come from different countries with different cultural backgrounds we have different political stance and views but after all we still need to respect each other we have to embrace the differences and that what makes kathie pacific group so special and so unique and we are very glad that and all our members and workers are glad that our chairman would have made such a speech that is a such a fake encouragement to us but we never would have believed that now even he has to step down and the most shocking news of course is about our former ceo and the coo that's his ripet hot and the pollu they need to believe they're forced to resign from the post especially after these aac have announced three special regulations to kathie group and all these we we can say it is very new and also quite a big defeat to the aviation industry in hong kong and we believe it surely affects all the industries in hong kong as well because we kathie pacific group as a large cooperation in hong kong large company we believe the chinese government target on us to show how big their influence could be and how they could threaten the survival of a corporation corporate that would to scare you and to ask you to think twice before you really want to do something for hong kong but we tell everyone that we are not scared although i've been sacked but i'm sure this news would even bring us together my termination actually of course everyone is sad but my members and my colleagues they know how terrible it could be if we really want to step back and just keep silent because next one will be you yourself so they decided to ask the help from the public and also to we're glad that we got the support from all of you as well and from other trade unions rebecca can you tell us a little bit about the way in which you have observed these events have increased the the closeness the understanding between members of the general public and workers who are in unions would you say as carol did that there seems to be a growing understanding of the importance of workers banding together and acting and if so what have you seen well i've seen um uh we can see it's a new hong kong now because uh everyone knows uh although uh there's no no there's no a big platform to organize all the events but uh since june or since august after those uh strike and also those big protests everyone know the individual power when we unite together and when we connect it could be a big power and could be influencing each other and it is a way to show support to each other as well you can never underestimate one's power can make things changed and uh they're not scared anymore even you go on the street by yourself or try to express your opinion before we could never seen uh all hong kong people could be could be so great to do or to walk on the street by themselves without any big organization telling you what to do and there's no instructions at all we already so used get used to it every weekend from Friday to Sunday everybody know what to do that is to go on the street and to tell everyone that we are still fighting for what we want and we won't step back there's you don't have any timetable or timeline it's already marked in your mind and of course after weekend we still go to work and um like a lot more workers but in our heart or in all our free time on our social media everyone are so connected and we have uh all everyone share the big picture it as is to ask the government about the five demands and they need to deal with it yes remarkable before we turn to um sarah nelson can i ask you to talk a little bit about what uh you have received and seen by way of international solidarity uh from other other unions around the world and what sort of impact that has had i'm sorry did you hear me rebecca i think you are you were on mute try again okay i'm here did you hear my question i thought you're talking to sarah oh no no no no i was sorry i'm sorry yes i'd love to hear about about your experience of receiving international solidarity yeah okay yeah i'm i'm i'm really grateful that um we have received so many supports from different trade unions like i've mentioned earlier after my termination uh we didn't even uh have really proactively announced what's happened to me but some it was covered by field media or some press and we already got tons of email from different trade unions and of course uh from itf and they're showing their support and tell us that we don't have to be afraid because we're in solidarity we are we clearly know that what's how the company tried to defeat the trade union but um we are connected with other trade union from all over the world and we don't feel scared because we know when we get the support from the from the different trade unions internationally um and they would know what's happening in hong kong is totally unfair and we hope uh the situation will get better soon and we really thank we feel so thankful for what they have done to us Rebecca thank you very uh very deeply grounded and authentic account of what you've been through and again i think everybody can hear uh in your and carol's comments the transformational nature of what's going on this is not cannot be understood as just a normal strike or normal social protest this is transforming the very uh life blood of social movement um thank you so much and we're back at the floor we turn to sarah nelson i just like to remind people that are watching and participating in this in this webinar that you can post questions um and in about 10 or 15 minutes or so we'll turn to those questions we probably will not be able to get to all of them but we'll be happy to answer as many as we can so you can put them in your chat function sarah um you have a very interesting connection uh to this story um sarah's people know is the president of the a of a um which is affiliated with the communication workers uh sarah has really been um carving important in using uh the power and the pulpit that she has uh to demand that a a broader social justice agenda um be be taken up by our labor movement and it has certainly included solidarity um for the uh fallen fallen sisters in hong kong sarah welcome uh please uh talk about your own involvement in this case and particularly about uh your union's organization representation of the u.s based um crew of kathie pacific you just bargain their first contract yes um ironically we achieved that contract in july this summer so as the protests were taking off and heating up we actually were able to close out that contract with the management who now has resigned i should note so let me back up for just a minute and um remind everyone or tell everyone for the first time that kathie pacific has bases in san francisco la and new york um the kathie pacific flight attendants voted overwhelmingly 97 percent in january of 2017 to join afa after the company had found a loophole in tax code um to stop paying into the social systems in the united states so to stop paying into social security and medicare and stripping the flight attendants who live in the us of their retirement security so they organized very quickly with afa and um we were successful in finally getting a first contract um felt that there had been actually a lot of um well we got a lot of support i should say from our our sisters and brothers in hong kong um but uh worked really um to achieve that contract to achieve that retirement security here in the us those flight attendants fly many times with hong kong-based crew but they fly directly from san francisco to hong kong go to a uh a place outside the city to have their layovers um sometimes will interface with family that they have in hong kong and they're mostly they're mostly very much connected to um to hong kong or manland china we also have a base in hong kong for united airlines and it is a base that has been open for over 20 years it flies we the flight attendants there are on our seniority list in the us and the um united airlines uh us-based contract governs their working conditions um those flight attendants have been out at these protests and participating and certainly participated in the august protest at the airports um and are very supportive but i will tell you that this is it is extremely important for our unions to be talking about what is happening in hong kong because um there is so much going on in the us right now that um it is very hard to break through on those issues um one of the ways that we talk about this with our members because i i will tell you our members who live in hong kong um there are a small number of them who are married for example to the local hong kong police and don't want our union speaking up um we have spoken up anyway and continue to press forward um we also have members um in uh the kathie pacific bases who are very supportive of the statements that we have made but um i think um are very concerned about how to really intercede here um as kathie employees and i think carol will tell you that um one thing that is um a tried and true um tactic and i would say coming from mainland china and now kathie pacific management who will follow their orders is to have a list of people and to pick them off one by one uh and so people have been led to believe that if they keep their heads down or if they follow the new social media policy of the uh providing at being a whistleblower for mainland china um that they can somehow preserve their own jobs and the truth is that there are thousands of people on the list who are targeted um and if what we have to do is spread the word that if we really act together and take the actions that rebecca and carol were talking about and that solidarity that is building up and the idea that workers can have power i was so excited to hear rebecca talk about the transformation psychologically of the hong kong workers um who are going out on the weekends and who are not waiting for anyone to tell them but understanding that this is a way of life that they have to stand up and they have to stand for these rights because um there is this idea that if one event is spreading throughout hong kong um through these actions that we need to actually spread more around the rest of the world and get more people to participate in that if one person is hurt we are all in jeopardy of being hurt and injury to one is an injury to all and so we are trying to have those conversations actually with our members and to think and talk about how they can be more active in that but also to spread the word throughout the u.s. because um what's happening in china is very much what the government in the u.s. right now um is trying to um so throughout the united states with taking away unions rights and trying to get people to be silenced and trying to get people to keep their head down and so this idea that workers around the world are getting out in the streets and feeling like they need to um stand up for not only their rights but and and not be so worried about their professional their job that they have today because the understanding that the very foundational um uh idea of uh individual expression freedom of expression freedom of movement freedom of protest is on the line here um that it doesn't matter what profession they may have that profession is never going to afford them the kind of life that they want for themselves or for their children if they're not standing up together so we are trying to inspire that conversation i'm actually talking about this quite often everywhere i go i've got the entire airline industry um all gathered together in one room tomorrow uh airlines manufacturers airports u.s airline industry in one room together tomorrow in washington and this will be a key part of my speech to them um but we have to understand that aviation one one thing that i talk about with our members and with other people in the airline industry is that the only reason that aviation works is because people actually can go and buy a ticket and think in their minds i can go anywhere in the world and when that is clamped down on when that is denied that will that will choke out the airline industry so if if you have um management even you know heads of these businesses um or union leaders or individual workers have to understand that this is not something that is happening to someone else this is something that is threatening our very right to um have our our industry in the basis for our jobs and the basis for um our ability to move around the world and make these connections with other people so so it's it's it's a constant effort to get people into the conversation and help them understand why this means something to them um and that's that's what we are trying to promote with our members even within our membership ranks but we're going to keep speaking up and keep spreading the word and keep raising awareness and keep cheering on rebecca and carol and i just want to also note that um it is quite extraordinary that around the world uh flight attendants and women in particular are leading the way on militant action and leading the way on um showing um our families and our communities how to really um love in action and uh i i just really want to i i can't say enough about how much i look up to rebecca and carol and how much of a heroes they are to me um and uh i want to thank them very much for everything they're doing so i don't know if it's time for questions but can i can i just um give some um suggestions it's the the latest um example happening in nba i think most americans they are wearing and when the um the chief executive adam silva and um they he expressed that when mengnan chinese officials are instructed him to fire daro moray and this is how the um when a company or a business um entity then they seeing the power of mainland china and exactly how happening about what rebecca says when the cac instructed the airline i don't like this particular person fire him or fire her how can a business company to resist such an order and look at nba at the moment they still able to resist because various reason but on the airlines you see um china mainland chinese governments through the cac very very clever to manipulate the air space this is the only weapon they can manipulate to ransom any business entity saying that unless you don't want to do business with us we won't let you fly into or over our skies so i think this is one of the things and one of the very important examples to show to the world um how much and how big of the power from the mainland chinese government if they want to control a place they want to control a place politically they will first start from the finance control from a place from the place um company so um this is a very typical too extreme that's showing in front of everyone's eyes hi are you are people able to hear me yes i'm sorry i've been having i've been having some uh technical problem are people able to to hear me right now yeah okay i really i really apologize um let me try and read some questions for you in the last few minutes my my computer seems to be unstable um i have a question about uh that comes in like this um beyond uh adopting the five demands what will it is that what was the five demands i can't so i think carol the question is i can read it here um but the question was beyond um adopting the five demands what will it take uh uh for to win uh the 2019 protests to win i think among the protesters and then the city still thinking about the retaliations economically and not local economically or perhaps international retaliations economically so um is there any other ways to um a kind of um siege around the world to tell and instructed um to was back to the mainland china it's um it's a democratic um international society here it's not only you mainland china you want to do how to do the things all right so i think this is some of the ideas came up um during these movements and if we want to make sure that the the people in hong kong able to win in my mind at this stage it's how to make international solidarity or international support that became more stronger when more and more countries especially big countries and different organizations or workers organizations or public to show their support to show their resistance about how um chinese government you if you still penetrating your um political power through um economical means um something if you don't meet or um to fulfill the international um kind of rules for example giving human rights or workers rights um we will support hong kong until they get it so i think some of the um the situation develops throughout these three months it's how much of the international solidarity we're able to get the very first things coming up i think is the american congress it's going to pass one of the bill isn't it about the hong kong human rights act i think this is one of the very very significant move international solidarity and the international support and of course it still needs some time maybe weeks to wait until the senate to pass isn't it but the the situation in hong kong is everyone is monitoring what's happening in u.s congress and it shows a reflections to um mainland chinese government it's um they can't just try to do even more stronger retaliations towards hong kong workers is a way out they need to respond to the international world that's excellent thank you so much um i appear to have solved my um technical problems i believe um we have another question um do hong kong people want an independent hong kong state um i i although i'm i can't represent 7.5 million people to say but majority opinion in hong kong we are not asking for hong kong independence no we just need to make sure back to 22 years ago when we hand back to mainland china and the what the british government and the mainland chinese government they have been agreed a joint decoration how to maintain one country two systems this one country two system means to maintain as long as at least 50 50 years of the same way of living what we used to be so at this moment and throughout this movement is showing this one country two system situations now is deteriorating gradually is moving on like what we became or what we will be king one of the major cities in mainland china that means you won't have your um critical thinking you can't criticize your government your freedom of expressions freedom of assembly could be jeopardized or been taken away you look at what latest happening the at the face mask ban the legislation just coming overnight by flicking the fingers so it's really worrying each and every one across different ages group it's what's going to happen a year later or later or later so we just want to make sure um chinese government please do what you have been promised when that year we hand back to hong kong when those years that our politicians our representatives have been talk and negotiate together with the mainland chinese government don't take in a way the words all right this is how and why the people insist we don't want to became those cities like one of the Shanghai or Beijing and you have no human rights activists you can't have workers activists to protect people's rights and the freedom of speech we don't want that so that's why we insist so long and so much thank you we have a number more questions we're going to try and get to someone asks what is the relationship between the militant labor movement on the ground in protests and immigrant domestic workers most predominantly from indonesia and the philippines how do you think this relationship speaks to the broader labor movement and it's overlap with immigrant rights of course this is highly relevant for us in the u.s given that migrant workers right is so central to the labor question here carol that might fall to you you're getting disproportionate number of questions which i i i think and around this movement in hong kong and we never ignored any minorities voices including those immigrants or immigrant workers rights they um we have about 30 um 300 thousands of um immigrant workers in Hong Kong majority working as a domestic helpers which is living with their employers together in one's one's home and their voices and their supports was a playing um a very unforgettable role as well although we know that um i'm not sure whether you guys are wearing um because the movement um we that the society have been split into two major colors either yellow which is the pan-democratic support the movement support the protesters the other side which is blue means um support the police support the government in each family you could have a yellow employer or blue employer how do these domestic workers able to support they may be using their own days off every sunday to come out and just to go along with the rally or someone able to to identify their employers which is supporting the movement they can talk to their employers but i think among the immigrant workers union they also showing a kind of support and so that's why we believe that don't ignore these small groups of the foreign workers voices and they've been using their own languages um to writing some of the routine materials and during some of the rallies or even spreading amongst their chat groups in telegram i believe this is um again and be able to collect different kinds of the people's voices including our immigrant workers together and perhaps they able to voice to their consulate as well in hong kong and i i remember through our philippines network um one of the protests happened in philippines outside the chinese consulates was taken place i think um two months ago it's showing a kind of support um from hong kong extended to different countries as well this is a very clear message to the mingland chinese government supporters came from everywhere don't ignore it i think this is one of the scenarios we would like to share excellent thank you sarah here's a question for you sarah you said that you believe that the u.s government is trying to sow the same seeds that china is are you stating that here in the u.s our government is trying to eliminate unions because we are the threat to the status quo of the oligarchy are they trying to instill fear in people losing their jobs as a mean of control and the person who wrote this is a member of the ibew yes well i mean the attack on unions is uh absolutely about accruing all of the power and control um to a small number of people and that has been a 70 year assault but it is on steroids with this administration um and that uh if you if you look at the executive orders that are taking away uh seeking to take away the rights of the federal unions for example um going in overnight uh taking the locks out of union offices closing those offices denying workers the time off necessary to provide due process rights denying collective bargaining this is all about taking away the last check in our democracy against total power and control of a select few and so yes i think that this is the attacks on workers rights are absolutely that first and last step towards taking away any ability for people in the country to rise up and um and fight that because that sets up a situation that carol and rebecca are describing which is going after businesses financially and trying to put pressure on businesses financially to control the employees and without unions there they can create the threat they can use the threat of um losing your job or losing your rights on the job um in order to try to control people and isolate people and we see that today um in union organizing campaigns where employers will um find ways to get rid of the union supporters and to isolate people through things like um isolating on their health care um providing uh schedules that deny them the right to get that health care or um making it very difficult for someone to access um workers con benefits and people who are very much isolated because they're going through an individual problem at work that where you don't have a union contract that addresses these issues for the entire workforce and the ability to enforce those rights um that people can very much be isolated and moved away if they are someone who is not afraid to use their voice so um I think that actually your question had the answer within it but let me just verify that I would agree sorry thank you so much uh we're going to wrap up uh now I'd like to ask um each of the three of you to just reflect we've had several questions that have come in sort of saying what would be something useful useful activities for Americans either in unions or in other pro-labor formations uh to do that might be uh supportive of the social insurgency in Hong Kong let's take a moment and ask each of the three of you if you have some suggestions Rebecca shall we start with you well um I'm very impressed when we talk about Sarah just mentioned about the isolation I mean the company or the Chinese government tried to use a white terror and I saw it's one it's mentioned in one of the question they talk about the white terror is really um everybody's really terrified by the white terror and people dare not to speak up and you never know each other's idea or their political view and it is how they isolate the workers and trying to ask the workers you just need to focus to protect your job because once you lose your job you can't even do whatever you want and it is the kind of the workers feel so frightened and they're very upset and disappointed with the company as well and I hope the workers will get the idea that um although we can't express your idea on the social media but as long as you know that we got so many support from all the Hong Kong people and people outside Hong Kong that is their support from internationally you can just go on the street and express your view by action you don't have to post anything on the social media and as long as you do what you believe in that is for uh greater Hong Kong to um help to save Hong Kong then um you don't have to be afraid and you get the power already uh from different people all over the world you don't have to be afraid that this is very good and very um support from you guys and from different people in the world we are very it's very touching and um thank you so much Rebecca thank you Sarah do you have some thoughts about the role that steps that can be taken in the US that you would like to encourage well I would really encourage every single union hall to talk about this issue and to express support um I think that uh what's very important is to share the information um as I said what I what I'm finding is that as I talk about this um around the country um there is um there is sort of a shock um that I'm bringing it up with all of the issues that we have to deal with here oftentimes people are very focused on what's right in front of them um and then um a desire a desire to learn more and where there seems to be a crowd that is more aware of what's going on um when we're not talking about these things in the union halls then we're giving um we're giving propaganda a chance to um to sow seeds into people's heads and into their consciousness and so we have to take on these issues in our union halls I would encourage everyone to bring this back to your local union and and bring an action item forward um there is an ITF resolution um that we have posted on afacwa.org that people can take and use as a platform um we can certainly um provide them with other resources um and um help uh Carol and Rebecca in doing that as well labor notes has some uh incredible resources on the issue as well um but we need to be talking about this we need to be passing resolutions we need to be um providing those support statements and encouraging our government to act so our government does need to pass this resolution resolution does need to take action and hold china accountable uh for these human rights violations uh because we we cannot we cannot allow this to go on and allow this to go unchecked and it is absurd that the united states has not sent us a more swift message of support and condemnation of these human rights violations so these are the things that we need to do but we need to understand that we need to have those one-on-one conversations and build the support within our workplaces so that we can um so that we can get our politicians to understand that we're paying attention um that this matters to us and um that we need them to act. Excellent Sarah thank you so much for that uh rally and cry to us all and uh Carol let's cause that with you last thoughts right all right I think um really appreciate um this chance to let us to explain to so many people in one go and from now on I believe no matter what kind of the unions you belong to no matter is aviation or not a particular aviation and I think that the union should first of all take the very first move and the lead to watch that their own employer is telling them make sure any workers in the workplace are protected they're free from any kind of threats even they're showing um their stance to support Hong Kong workers or Hong Kong people they should not be subject to any penalty or any kind of intimidation and this is what the union can do and to tell everyone in the workplace in the country that unions can give support and pro and the protections to anyone and also I would like to encourage everyone to support any kinds of activities at your own local places if you see they are supporting the Hong Kong's protest or protesters I know the university students group they are already start their tour in America and internationally to explain to the educational field or politics some politicians in America and how about our workers our unions representatives can do and we we could be following but don't forget this is one of the main steps we in around the world we can help each other and also if you see this is a fundraising program supporting particular industry like Rebecca and aviation workers who get dismissed who are in the hardship and please do all what you can support financially even just one dollar and that helps then last but not least is how to monitor the situations and giving enough recommendations towards the U.S. Congress for example if the bill is passed and to give enough recommendations to give sanctions to any particular business firms this is one of the future works I think me, Sarah and more union fellows can do it and in after today we need to make sure how your side can receive very clear message from Hong Kong is which company is doing those things now they are spreading the white terror towards their workers and they need to be sanctioned they need to be monitored and or perhaps punished in certain ways and just like what we recommended some are a lot of the signature petitions when those senior police officers still try to apply the immigrant status in U.S. and do they know they actually reaching some kind of human rights and et cetera et cetera so so many different things I recommend that no matter at your side or around the world people the supporters can do and or and within the unions so I very much hope the international supports carry on don't forget what's happening in Hong Kong today it could be happen on you later Carol thank you so much I would like to remind everybody who is listening that you will have another opportunity and perhaps the opportunity to meet these brave warriors face to face at the labor notes biennial conference which is in April in Chicago we're very honored to bring representatives of the Hong Kong Dock Workers Union after their historic strike in 2013 I'm sure we will want to welcome our sisters and brothers from Hong Kong it's an extraordinary opportunity for rank and file activists and militant trade unionists from around the world to gather we will look forward to hearing the continuation of your story and your struggle then thanks to everybody for your time and especially to our speakers solidarity and stand with Hong Kong solidarity forever solidarity good night good night solidarity