 officially open the meeting with the script that explains that this is a meeting of the Central Vermont Public Safety Authority. This meeting will come to order. This meeting is a remote only meeting, which means the public body is meeting electronically only and consistent with the temporary provision of Act 78. There is no designated physical meeting space where the public may attend. Please note that while we will strive to provide means of those attending remotely to participate in the public comment period, there may be technical difficulties or reason that otherwise prevent or disrupt remote public participation. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote and according to the law. Also as required by the only meeting law will begin by a roll call attendance of all members participating in the meeting and all those attending remotely will identify themselves with their name and where they live. All participants must be recognized by the chair before speaking and please if comments are not on topic the speaker will be disrupted interrupted and asked to adjust their comments accordingly. Please try to keep comments at two to three minutes and remember all of us to start with our name. So I would first put before the group approval of the agenda. I have two additions. One is good news under discussion after the minutes. I would like to insert Bev Hill discussion as treasurer and ask the board to consider extending her for a year. She's willing to do that and also that I want to add an executive session under number six with the open meeting law discussion so we can discuss what we've received as legal advice. So those are my two adjustments. Anyone else? Okay. All in favor of those two adjustments to the agenda. If there's no dissent will be accepted by unanimous consent. Thank you. A public comment? Anyone have a comment not just from the public but anything that's not on the agenda that you want to announce or talk about? Cool. This could be quick. How are you feeling, Justin? Okay. The minutes of April 14th, Justin sent you out a copy but I didn't find any difference in that than the one I sent out. So it was the April 14th minutes. There were no differences. Any comments or adjustments to it? Otherwise the chair will entertain a motion to accept the minutes. Donna, can I just make sure that those are the minutes that I put on the website? I'm not hearing you, Justin. That's interesting. Hi, Doug. Are my headphones not on? Donna, if I talk louder like this, can you hear me better? I just wanted to talk, Justin. I am talking. I can see my... Well, that's very interesting. Hold on. Oh, it was my computer. Okay. You could hear me. I had it off her city council. Yeah, I could hear you fine. I want to make sure that the ones that you sent, you said there weren't any changes. I thought there were. I compare them by sentence. Hold on. I know at a minimum that I changed my name on one of them because where are you? The draft minutes are not up there. Hold on. I just want to take a look at the ones that I posted on the website and let me see the ones. So you compare them sentence by sentence. Let me pull the ones that you sent via email. I mean, I literally printed them both. I may have attached the wrong document to the emails, the issue. So I may have attached the wrong document. When I replied, I may have attached the wrong document. Give me 10 seconds here. Sure. Sure. And why you're... We can talk about comments while you're doing that. Sure. Also, I'll just remind Doug, we went through all the remote meeting-ish elements to remind people to say their name when they speak. And I've done it myself. We'll do roll call. Well, Justin is hunting for that. I mentioned that we needed to do it and then I didn't do it. So I'm Donna Bate. I'm an at-large member of this board. I live in Montpelier. Mel, you want to introduce yourself? Yep. I'm Mel Chambel. I live in Berry City. I'm on the city council. Jim? Jim Ward, living in Berry City, appointed by the city council. Doug Hoyt? Doug Hoyt. You're appointed? I am. By whom and where do you live? By the city council. I live in Montpelier. Okay. Jim? Yeah, I thought I just spoke. Jim Ward. Oh, sorry. Okay. I think you changed positions on my screen. And I was going across the row. There you were again. Okay. Justin, would you introduce yourself? Yep. Justin Dreschler, appointed by Montpelier, the CVPSA secretary. Okay. And then if the other members of our group would introduce themselves, that would be good. Joe, you're next to my screen. Berry City Fire Department. Okay. And then we have Doug, David Delcor. Yeah. I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Not quite. Try it again. Can you hear me? You're real soft, David. I'm sorry. Can you hear me? Yeah. All right. Yeah. Dave Delcor from the Times, August. Thank you. Doug Brent? Can you hear me, Donna? Yes. Doug Brent from Berry City Fire Department. Okay. Steve McKenzie? Yep. Steve McKenzie, Berry City Manager. Sorry. I'm late. Did I miss anyone? Okay. So we were discussing the minutes of April 14th, and I had sent out one in the packet, and then Justin sent out another one. And when I compared the two, they were the same. And Justin said they weren't meant to be. So he was looking for the copy he meant to send out. So they were marginally different. There were just a couple of minor typos that were corrected. But in large part, they were the same. Well, we can still correct that even with the motion. They don't make any increment changes. Okay. Is that all right with you? Yeah. If you look at the... Yeah. The copy that I sent out is different by like a couple of words. Okay. Terrific. Entertain a motion to accept the minutes. Mel, are you going to make that motion? Sure. So moved. Thank you. Second. Second. Jim, I need further comments on the minutes. Thank you. Justin was very thorough. And we'll keep reducing... There'll be less there this time. There'll be much less there this time. I know. We all get used to it being a diary versus the Robert's Rules of Orders. Motions are the important thing. And then just general overview of the discussion. All in favor of the motions? Passing? Wave your hand or say aye. Aye. And the opposed? Terrific. Passed. I don't see Rick Burt and he had an intention of being here. I know that he had sent out a draft of the RFP to the Twin City team that they're working with. And they're making progress. The biggest actually stumbling block right now is getting the attention of the Twin City team personnel. They're all busy as always, but they're marching on and they're sending us updates. I attached one to the agenda. It was April 18th. I don't know of any questions about that. If Rick comes on later, we'll go back to him answering questions. Doug, I don't know if you can fill in any questions. Having you've read the RFP draft or Joe or Doug Brent, you're on that team. Joe, you have your hand up. Yeah, Donna, I can assure you that I've been in contact with old Rick and Dom on a regular basis the last few days, though. You know, myself and Keith back and the other two are looking at it. We do have a meeting scheduled for Tuesday, I believe. An interview with them. Good. Good. All right. So, so far you're satisfied with the work? Yeah, nothing that we can't work together to work through, so. Good. Doug Brent, you want to make a comment? I think Joe has pretty much summed it up, but things are going well. Like Joe said, good. Dom and Rick have called us a lot with some questions and they've assembled a group of other questions and they're going to interview us and get the answers. Join me from us. Joe, myself, and Brian Pete and Paul Saruti, I believe are the group they're going to be talking to as they solicit more input for their final report to you guys. Okay. And Doug Hoyt, I put you on the spot there. You or Kerry's just joined us. Anyone part of that team would like to speak? Raise your hand or? I was invited for a meeting on Tuesday, and I assume that's the meeting that Doug and Joe are talking about. And I think that'll be a good opportunity for me to get up to speed with what they're saying. I'll just wait for Tuesday. Okay. Good. Can I just dug a joke? Am I correct that I should be attending, even though I didn't get mentioned by either one of you? I don't think you got mentioned by us because I'm not sure we knew who we was inviting for the interview. That makes perfectly good sense. Yeah, with all due respect, Steve, I think you should probably plan on attending, just to see where the questions are at. Okay. Yeah, the focus was, as Joe mentioned, a sort of an opportunity to interview some of the public safety staff and get their input. And you're certainly want to be there, Doug, if you can. I will. Okay. Okay. I don't know if there are any further questions on that. It's a good work on progress. Steve McKenzie. Just a curiosity question. What's their timeframe for pulling together the RFQ, and it's probably been mentioned a dozen times, and I'm sorry for asking again. No, it hasn't, not since actually, it's been the last meeting that was touched on. They were talking about June, so it's, they're aiming for June 12th right now. Okay, great. Thanks. So if, and then they would, and that's one of the things that's going to come up when we talk about this board's next meeting, is whether or not we could push it back a week, because if it's done on the 12th, then they could present it to us. See, in June, our, oops, come on, I'll enter. Our meeting in June would be the 9th. If we push it back to the third Thursday, the 16th, then we'd be right in the sink with after they released it. But that's their tentative release date right now. It's June 12th. Okay, moving right along. Statehouse update. I think, Adana? Yes. I'm sorry. It would, it would seem to make sense to just slide the regular meeting a week. That's what I'm, we're going to propose when we talk about our next meeting date. Okay, I'm sorry. That's what I meant to say, is that since they're aiming for the 12th, we would, I would be asking to push our meeting off to the third Thursday. Yeah. Good. Okay. Yep. I mean, we can make that decision now that would help people keep it in order. Them doing their report as indicated with their schedule being done on June 12th, it would behoove us to move our regular meeting in June to June 7th, 16th, the third Thursday. Not that it matters. The 12th is a Sunday. I'm not sure that that matters, but it's it's still before the 19th, obviously. So, yes, or the 16th, whatever that Thursday. 16th is a Thursday. And I just chose a Thursday because hopefully people who can meet maybe on the second Thursday can meet on the third Thursday with the 16th of June work for people as best they can figure out for now. Thumbs up. Okay. Good consensus. I'll put that new date out. Thank you. Statehouse update. I was told that indeed 6.5 million is in the budget for regional dispatch. Not quite sure exactly how it's going to be distributed. So I would say we're still negotiating with the commissioner. What is the other parties? I know Doug Brandt, you were there. Steve McKenzie, you might have heard. Do you feel that's a right interpretation? I haven't heard anything. So I'll defer to Doug or Joe. So it's Doug Donna. We've gotten word from chief Pete, who's kind of been our contact person, as I know that manager Frazier and the lobbyists that's employed by the city of Montpelier have worked very hard on this. And so we've heard that 6.6 figure like you mentioned. And it all had to do with the legislature wrapping up and the governor putting a signature on the budget all over with the shouting from that point. But we still have not been prized of what the final application process will be, if you will, to apply for that money. And so we're hoping that our allotment or Montpelier and Berry's allotment that we put in for the 3.2 million is in that 6.6 million dollar number. But until we know, we've got to stay alert and keep talking to the commissioner for sure. I'm glad you mentioned the lobbyist. I can remember her first name is Maggie. She was most helpful. She got reached out to me and I passed on some more letters to our Washington County representatives to get support for it. I was really glad she was on board. A lot of crazy stuff happens around the budget and these numbers kept changing and not for the better. So I feel she was very much needed. That's for sure. Yeah, you can be sure that we're keeping the commissioner and his assistant, his captain there that's been in charge of this. We're trying to keep them in the loop so that we are in the loop as well. Yes. Okay. Anyone else want to comment on that before we move along? Donna. Yes. Justin Drescher. I just have a question not about this, but about the change of the next meeting date. Was there a motion and a second for that or can we just do that by unanimous consent? I just got a general consent. The chair can change the date. Okay. Without quote permission, I always tried to refer because I want people there to if I can bring it up to the whole body. But we can always do a motion if whatever you'd like. No, I just want to make sure the notes are feeling like taking minutes. So I've been dotting things down here. So no, I'm ripping them off. I wouldn't be here if I wasn't taking minutes. Okay. I've COVID everybody. I'm not lazy. Yeah. The mayor's got it too. She's down with COVID with a new baby. It's much like a challenge. You've got little kids. It's hard. Okay. So yes, we've made the date change. We now know we have some money there. We still have to keep hustling forward to make sure we get what we need. The next element on the agenda is the open meeting law challenges and public record requests. And there can be some discussion now, but I do I do want us to go into executive session before we talk any specifics about any legal opinions. One thing we could talk out loud is Justin, we have some outstanding record request. Do we have any open meeting law violations outstanding? No, as far as I know, there are no open meeting law violations. So Mr. Whitaker requested that that while he has his standing request for a copy of the meeting, that one has been answered. But he requested a copy of all communications from VLCT to the CVPSA regarding a legal opinion regarding this legal opinion on what was the specific matter done. I have cloudy brain. The legal opinion was about what kind of format we had to provide and whether or not or qualified and whether we had to do zoom. Yes. And so what Mr. Whitaker is looking for is those communications. And the question is whether those communications were protected by the attorney client privilege or when Mr. Whitaker's claim is that when the chair had mentioned the legal advice in at a public meeting, whether the attorney client privilege is waived and that opened up the records to for disclosure. Yes. I would tend to I'm no lawyer, but I would certainly tend to doubt that. Just a mere mention that that there's been a legal opinion requested or or delivered. I don't believe open opens it up to public record. The opinion itself is a confidential legal document. If it's protected. Okay, I mean, I do sense. I'm not a lawyer, but yep. No, I think opinions can be shared here. I do think I'm wanting an executive session because that's what got me in trouble in the first place. Is that maybe we talk? I talked too freely about the opinion that was given us. So that's helpful to know, Steve. Is anyone else? Well, let me let me let me I'm sorry. I thought if there if there was discussion about specific elements of the opinion in public, I think that might open it up. I thought you were just making a general reference to the fact that you had sought and or received a legal opinion. I don't think the latter opens it up to exposure. But if you discussed aspects of the legal opinion in public session, I think that might be a good point. But again, my advice is free and it's worth what it's Okay, but we'll take it. We can that's what we need to do. Just take it all in. We're dealing with another records request from Steve of again, asking for any any records or whatever, dealing with the Barry teams, communications on the telecommunications proposal, the funding and so on and so forth, most of which has been discussions at the committee level. I think there are some emails that we will disclose. But I think he's looking for a treasure trove of information that doesn't exist. Treasure trove of documents that doesn't exist. But right. What I realized, and I can't believe it, I just thought of it. I needed to send you all an executive session Zoom link. Honestly, I know that it's like So, well, Donna, you can you could create a breakout room off of this link and then just invite in those members of the board as opposed to having to set up a separate link. If, if I know it can be done and I participated in it. I mean, I totally until I go through something, I am totally tech challenged. Yeah, no, I understand. I'm the same way. You know, I don't know what I've ever done it. I think I could because I've been through enough of them, but I'm no expert either. I just know that it can be done. So I mean, Justin, you're the the one law you're here. We can have this discussion in general. I can try to send a link or we can say we're like sometimes at city council will say that we're not going to depends if we come out of session to make a decision or not. But all our other business, I believe, has been discussed. I'm not trying to complicate your life, but I'm also trying to think of ways that you would get you where the board would get peppered. And if you can do it, I think you're better off calling for an executive session in this meeting and breaking out to do it rather than setting up another link because then you could be accused of setting up an unwarranted meeting or something like that. If you could do it as a breakout in this meeting, that might be the best way to do it. And particularly if you don't expect any action to come out of the executive session, everybody who's not invited could just leave if that's the last item of the evening. I don't know what you all saw, but I went to the Zoom link and tried to find some language of breakout sessions and nothing jumps out at me. Anybody here set up breakout sessions themselves on Zoom? I think if you hit the participants button, that's where it is. I can't see it because only the host can set up the breakout room. So when you click the little carrot on participants, do you see something about breakout rooms? Invite people to join meeting. No, that's just. That's just right. Do you have something that down below that says breakout rooms? Down there because you're the only one who has. Video security, whoops. Participants share screen apps, whiteboard and emotions or reactions. Chat. If you've got nothing there, that's interesting. If you want, I can go offline and maybe try to find out real quick how to do it. Okay, let me. And there is if I have any luck. Okay, there is one thing we could discuss under that same heading when I look through the requirements of timing a response for record requests and open media law violations, they refer to business days. And we don't have any business office or business days. And I was had been thinking before that it would be good that I felt the need to put some boundaries on the work for the public safety authority without staff, it becomes overwhelming at times. And there are many small towns with city clerks offices that are only open two or three days a week. And we could set our hours, we could post them on our website, we could be consistent with them. And those are the times that we respond to these kinds of requests. But it's more than just that I guess I feel it's a way to contain and maintain the public safety authority and still not having an overwhelm any of our lives, particularly the officers. Does that appeal to anyone besides me of putting some boundaries on and saying we have office hours Tuesday, Thursday, 12 to three or something? I think it would be great. And right now it's our, yeah. So I mean, what would seem reasonable? A couple of afternoons a week, Jim? I just have a clarification question. I agree in principle 100% with limiting it because of the nature of how much everyone gets paid. Well, what would actually happen during those business hours? I think that's a huge help there. Okay. So that's when you would sit down and deal with record requests. And that's when your clock would time. So if you have three business days and you're only open two this week, that means you have one, two days this week and one day next week to do it. What I mean is that mean that he's open for emails those days? There's no office that anyone's going to go visit. So those are the days that he is required. Oh, I see from the standpoint of statutory response. Yes. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. I think it's crazy that we're responding to, for me, and I know I'm the older generation, but, you know, Saturdays, Sundays, 9 p.m. and the clock starts. I get an email at 9 p.m. at night. I don't think that's fair. If it says five business days, that would be five weeks for us because we have one business day a week. Well, or whatever it is. I mean, if it's one day a day. Yeah, but calendar days are calendar days. Now I see you. Now I see where you're going with it. I agree with that 100%. Well, I also think it would help to make the volunteers, especially the officers less onerous, unless invading of our own work and personal lives. But what's a reasonable amount of time to have business hours? I see you, Steve, I'll get back to you after we deal with this. Right now, Justin, you're like me, one of those affected the most. What do you think? Yeah, for me, so like if we say that 10 business days is how long you have to respond, if we pretend that we work two full, not pretend, I'm sorry, assume that we say that we're open for two full business days a week, that goes as five weeks to respond. I think that's more than enough time to respond. Okay. I think it's reasonable on both sides. I suppose is where I'm at. I think two days a week, saying nine to five, two days a week are the times that we will conduct business in this specific way are, I think it's totally reasonable. And then you shouldn't expect to respond outside those windows. I think we should be very clear about that type of thing. Mm-hmm. And we need to work on language so we can post it on our website to make that clear. Is it Tuesday and Thursdays make sense? Jim? Just to clarify again, has there been a precedent set on this with the small towns that are only open one or two days a week? Yes, there's city clerks all over Vermont that are open two or three days a week. I understand that, but has that been adjudicated that that extends their response time to... Yes, it's to their business hours. Okay. So the response... And the legislation uses that term, Jim, it uses that term business hours. And they define business hours, whatever are your normal posted business hours. And some of those aren't open nine to five. They're like 10 to 30. Oh, I know. Yeah, they're very... Some of them are extremely limited. So for instance, say 95, that's... Yeah. Worcesters open very short period of time to pay the water bill, my son phoned out. Yeah. So I mean, business day is the business day, whether you're posted 10 to three or nine to five, that's your business hours. So it counts the same. So do you really want to post nine to five? Do we want to post nine to five? Does it... In one way, it doesn't matter, I guess, because we're not truly answering the phone. I do get some phone calls on our Google number and I respond to them as best I can. Most are looking for an estate agency. They totally don't understand what we are. So entertain a motion of us to set our business hours. I can make it. Excuse me? I will move that we set specific business hours no more than two days a week and to be set by the secretary at their pleasure. Okay. Two days a week? I second it. All right. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed. Perfect. Okay. Steve McKenzie, what can you tell us? Yeah. Hey, there's just one other observation and I'm making these constructively because I know you get attacked every meeting you attend. One thing I think that was missing from your agenda this evening is the adjustments to the agenda item. That's intended to be a very, I think, a standard, essentially the first item after you open the meeting. We did. I adjusted the agenda. No, no, no. But your agenda doesn't list that action item. In other words, your agenda says... It's usually done under approve agenda. Any adjustments are done there? Yeah, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think adjustments to the agenda, for instance, on the Berry City Council, and I think maybe on yours, Donna, the Montpellier, adjustments to the agenda is a second item. No, but never mind. Okay. But essentially what Teddy was that told me is who is the host? Is it you, Donna, or Josh? Yes, I am. So on your menu bar, you should have, I think something that says breakout room or down where it says share screen on that same line. I have a shared screen. Yeah, but on that line, not in that icon, but in that line, do you see another where it says record reactions? Do you see something that says breakout room? No, no, I looked within all of the... No, I don't. I think you have to have it enabled. Just a little while ago, and it said what you have to do is you have to enable it in your account. Yeah, so if you're for a meeting, you've got to enable it, and then it'll be at the bottom for you to do it. So I don't know, to do the executive session tonight, I don't know how you have any... Just because of what Steve said about not having warned or having an official warning of the executive session separate meeting, that if everybody just leaves and make an executive session that way, I don't know if that's legal, but... Well, I mean, at City Council, we've had executive sessions when they haven't been worn, but it's helpful sometimes to say they may possibly be an executive session, but the executive session link is never posted. It's only given to the council. Yeah, but I think Mel is right. I mean, the Zoom version of having an executive session in an in-person meeting is if the council goes into executive session in the in-person meeting, everybody else has to clear the room. So in this case, the clearing of the room is everybody leaves, and you can monitor who's here by monitoring the screen. And it's a question of whether you anticipate... I don't know how you would communicate other than by phone call. For instance, the only... David would be interested in staying around if you were going to come out of executive session and have some kind of action. If you anticipate no action, then I think David would generally leave along with the rest of us. Well, yes, that's why at Montpeer City Council, we have a separate Zoom that's for executive sessions, a totally separate connection. But doing this, I feel like we are going to come out hopefully with some action because we want to give our custodian of records guidance of how to respond to Stephen's request. Yeah, actually, Justin has a good point. If this meeting is being recorded, then having everybody leave and continuing with the meeting won't work because you'll have your executive session recorded. Well, we'd have work and leave, too. Yeah, okay. Can I make a quick suggestion, Donna? Yeah. So I think that my position on this is going to be similar to Steve's. I think this specific language used during the meeting is going to be key to our discussion. And so I wonder if we should kick this to the next meeting and I'll just transcribe because it's going to be like one line. I'll find the line that you said and we'll just transcribe it and I'll transcribe it and then everyone can look at it before then and we can have the executive session at the next meeting. Sure, sure. What I remember is just referring to the statutory references in the legal opinion, not, yeah. And if that's the case, then I think we're in the clear, but I think let's just try to make it as clean as possible. That's probably the best move. Okay, so you're going to get some more notices from Stephen because our next meeting is June 16th. I'll speak to Stephen, no problem. Okay, okay. We are not ignoring him. We're trying to come to some. I've actually already spoken to Stephen specifically about this and I've told him that this is something that we're taking very seriously, that I personally take very seriously. And so he is aware that it's something that is getting our full attention. Great. That's really helpful. The next item on the agenda is other business. Anything we haven't talked about that's come up since we started, except adding executive Zoom link, I may put one in every meeting agenda just in case we need it. Okay, very good. Swift but purposeful. I do feel we're I do feel we're encouraged by the motion going forward with the RFP and with the state house funding that took a group effort. Thank everybody who testified, sent letters. Otherwise, yes, Jim. I thought I'd just take this opportunity to update the purchase of Barry City. The first full entry prop has been ordered. Unfortunately, they're like three months behind because the federal government ordered 10 of them last month or something to that effect for the army. So it's underway and they're looking forward to it. And I'm so glad you brought that up because next week by next Friday, we'll have a warrant on the Barry Farman's Club check. I had to we need people to sign. I'll send you an email reminding you. We just need four board members to sign it. And we have four of us in Montpelier to save the Barry people from driving if if indeed by next week, Justin, you're able to go in and sign as Doug Kim and I and we also have a warrant dealing with the Televate payment that you can sign at the same time. So we have two warrants for two checks that we already approved. But four people can sign that so the Barry folks don't come over. Right, right. You just need to you need a quorum. You need a minimum of four. Yeah. And we did that because we haven't yet got the dock signature thing going. Grant was doing a good job with that. We just haven't quite got everything transferred. Doug, you got your, Doug Hoyt, you got your hand up. Yes, Doug Hoyt. Despite what I told you earlier today or yesterday, I did not stop at the police department. I do not understand how I could possibly drive right by it and not stop, but I didn't. Must be I'm retired. At any rate, can I hold off on doing that first signing until I guess you can do both on Friday. Okay, I'm good. I won't forget as long as Justin tells me that it's where I need to go. I'll send everybody a reminder out as soon as I know Chris Christine, Halbert, who does our checks for us is out this week. So it'll get every the new the new warrant couldn't be done until next week. So we'll have them both together. Okay. All right. Anything else before we adjourn by unanimous consent, we are gone, done. 743 that is a record. We barely end on time, let alone early. God bless all of you. I hope you feel better. Yes, Justin. Take care. I'll do. Okay. Bye everybody. You used to talk about the treasurer, buddy. I'm glad somebody's got a thinking mind. Yay, Joe. Yes, because that does need a motion. All right. That does need a motion. I'll take back the adjournment. I am so sorry. Bev Hill has agreed to extend her treasurer being treasurer for one more year. She verbally told me she was resigning. I acted on it. She never wrote it out. But I would, we still need to appoint her as our treasurer if indeed she's going to continue. Entertain a motion. I move that we appoint Bev Hill the treasurer for the next year. Thank you. I'll second it. Thank you, Mel. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes. Thank you. Thanks to her for stepping forward again. Yes. Yes. She's totally willing as long as she can you know do so with respectful treatment and I'm very much hoping that we'll go forward that way. Okay. Thank you very much. I will now adjourn at 745. Good night, everybody. Good night. Take care.