 Hey, good afternoon everybody Tom Stewart here. I am with Liz Trotter and our special guests today We've got two guys. We've got Jonathan a Raleigh Ptachny This is our business moves. Hey guys We're starting the week off in a big way here the this is the last show of September or not September August, right? Yeah, it is. Yeah, we're almost in September Well, you know, it's funny because we have a father son team today and today is my son's birthday as well So it's like it's very much a father son mom mother son day today. Yeah, that's awesome. How's your son? He's 25 Yeah, had you asked me yesterday, I would have been like But I I'm a good mom and I figured it out just Well, that's great, you guys know today we are let me switch over to comments over here, okay Yeah, this is our last episode on leadership this month and I wanted to bring you guys on For those that don't know Riley I'm like, do you work for me Riley or do I work for you? Kind of go back and forth a little bit So Riley works for me, but I pretty much have to do whatever he says to be able to get decent outcomes so we kind of work for each other and Riley is Jonathan's son and I wanted to bring them on because well, everybody knows John. Well, maybe everybody doesn't know Jonathan I feel like everybody knows Jonathan such a big name and such a Big personality. I can't imagine that people don't know you but for those that don't maybe Jonathan Tell us a little bit about you are and what you do and then we'll get to Riley a little bit too. Okay So John Potoshnick Riley's dad very proud of Riley proud dad my background is in Software and in the service industry so I have I actually a long time ago was in the cleaning industry for many years in the commercial space focused on theaters and I've I have a long care company irrigation pest control company in the Dallas market Called City Turf and then I have a business by the name of service autopilot and that's how most people know me and Along the way, I've done a number of different things other software businesses that I didn't mention that list and just a variety of things But I've spent a tremendous amount of my time in the services space as specifically residential home services That's what I'm really passionate about and to this day. I remain very passionate about that specific space and so I spend my time Predominantly on the service autopilot business, but I also Had just do a lot of things So that's the best way I know describe it I do a lot of different stuff and I have a lot of different interests and and they all in some way Relate back to home services. That's like as I've said a couple times. That's the thing I most love so less about commercial more about residential and serving the homeowner Well, Tom, I'm gonna let you speak to that because I know that you are also a Jonathan fan well, I In some regards, you're my role model on the software side, you know, you've Set the bar really high and you guys have an awesome product and You know, we've been in the software development business for for 25 years But only recently started offering it to other companies and you guys you guys do a lot of great work And I think that we have some things in common just in terms of trying to professionalize You know home services industries. We do kind of special just in house clean We kind of stick to that, but I know that you do a lot of work like Training consulting you do a lot of a lot of work to be on just the software to help home service providers Build their businesses and get better outcomes Yep, and that very much came out just passion for the industry and then just like you I'm sure you really come to greatly appreciate your members so we call our clients members in the service autopilot world and You get to know them as people and you care about how their businesses go and their families go And that's how I ended up doing the the what you call the consulting or the we call it service autopilot Academy That's how I ended up doing that was it's just something I'm super passionate about So yeah, I agree. We share a lot similarities And Liz you spend more your time doing coaching I guess than just about anything else right now, don't you? Yeah, that's pretty much how I spend my life, too. Yeah A lot of your time right? Yeah, it does. That's actually the thing I probably spend The most time on frankly if you boil it down because I at all my other businesses I have individuals that run those businesses Leadership teams and but it in when it comes to the coaching and in our case again Academy It's much more difficult to just build that up and hand it off to somebody else Also, it's a passion thing for me. And so that very much takes my time. I'm I am very very involved in that part of the business Well Tom, maybe you could throw up a link to the service autopilot Academy would be helpful for people That don't know about it haven't heard about it or have and want to connect up So that would be great. Yeah. Yeah So I've gone over even though I don't use service autopilot. I'm using a central I know a ton of people that use service autopilot and love love love it And so I've looked at the service autopilot Academy I just saw that y'all have moved your big event this year We have here. Ah, yes, that was a tough decision And it's just it's just it's probably you've probably heard the same thing It's just a story of well we have a small Academy event a whole bunch of us got COVID and vaccinated or not and Then we know of a number of other friends in the industry that have come back from events and are reporting the same stories and We just felt maybe it was best to postpone again that was a tough decision because as you probably know events are where you really get to know your clients and your members and Develop those relationships and they're just so good in our case They're so good for us and the member and they're so good for our team to even get to go to these events So it was a it was a not an easy decision Yeah, I bet and and you're you're right People are kind of desperate for those events right now, too And they really want they're needing that connection. So I'm sure that must have just been really really difficult Liz and I have an event. I guess first week in October that Was originally scheduled What a year year and a half ago and we've We've postponed it twice because of COVID. Yeah, this is like our third time out and I I guess we've been having discussions trying to figure out, you know, yeah the most responsible thing for us to do there It's almost like flip a coin and just I mean I we it was such a difficult our event is Quite sizable in the and we've never ran it as a profit center So we we in fact have never made a profit on the event ever and probably I don't know how to make a profit on apparently and so It's one of those things that and I don't know how it is with your event But you also could find yourself in a very very very bad financial position if right before the event You're refunding 30% of your tickets Because there's so much hard cost involved and so that was one of the factors But then the day was like we were a little worried about bringing everybody together because we didn't want to bring it Have an event and then send everybody home with COVID and that be the story of the event So I was like, how do you make the decision? So I feel for both of you I don't I don't have the faintest idea how to advise you What to recommend we just said, you know what we're gonna we're gonna call it because we know a lot of other people doing it Yeah, it's not easy, but I Great great thing to be talking about here during this leadership topic, too And that is one of the things that you just you have to do you have to be willing to make the hard call Whichever way it goes and neither call is easy. No, it's not and I will say the one nice thing about The type of client or member that we cater to they've had to continue to run their Organizations they've had to continue to be out in the real world I don't know how Tom it's been in your software company, but at service autopilot We closed the business in March of 20 with we and we opened it back up in June But nobody goes to the office anymore and we've got to we've got Atlanta office and the Dallas office and nobody really goes other than some of the sales team and But and so that's you can't couldn't really look at this from a service autopilot perspective because it's a different world in my city turf business And you're you know your clients businesses. They're still out serving the client So are they less concerned where I'm going with all this is are they far less concerned about coming to an event? That was also what was so difficult about making the decision You're trying to get a bunch of software companies to come to that They may be a little more scared because they've been staying home but in our world our members our clients have all been working they had to work and so That too didn't make it any easier because there's on one hand you feel like okay. I could still get pretty good attendance here Yeah, I can tell you and then I mean we still run our own house cleaning business castle keepers and yeah most of if not Almost all I'm probably all of the people who've signed up for for our events Well, I mean at all, but the lion share of them for sure are kind of like COVID what COVID let's do this thing So, yeah Yeah, we have a lot of people like that Yeah, all right I also wanted to talk a little bit to Riley and Riley We're gonna kind of tie you guys together a little bit But Riley, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about what you do how you got into it and Anything else that you think would be Interesting sure so I own a web design company called rocket thruster And basically I am working with a lot of small Service businesses to help improve their website and really just make their website better from a performance standpoint I of course do all the design and building But the main focus is to help them identify what they can be doing to their website to Just make it generate the results that they're looking for so a lot of lead generation How do we make sure that as we design their website? We're putting their visitor in a position to feel comfortable in Confident in choosing them as their say house cleaning company We want to make them comfortable in doing so and then we want to make it easy for them to get started So there's a lot of strategy that goes into just making a website Great, but I don't necessarily need to go into the pitch for that So I have the website design business worked with dozens of companies there. It's been super successful not just for growth But also helping these businesses on the website front and making it a more Usable experience and making it a key part of their sales funnel Bringing people in from Google making it a very important part in bringing in new new leads new customers things of that sort and Really how I got started there before this I had a software company and I was having trouble getting that off the ground and frankly I almost ran out of money. So I Started the website stuff to a little bit of money, but it ended up working out really well I enjoyed what I was doing. I enjoyed helping these businesses and they were seeing great results So that's a little bit of how I got into the website stuff. It was very much stirred up from the lack of funds for the software side and that's paused at the moment, but It's been awesome working with a lot of different small businesses and the service industry and figuring out how I can help them the best and Seeing how they can get better results from their website Okay, I have two really important things to say sure and see how I jumped right in there before anybody else got a chance To say anything right because I want to say my stuff. All right. I'm really blurry right now Okay, the first thing is that I love how you just threw it out there Hey, that business was a failing and I had to do something different How many successful people do you hear about they had businesses fail before they ever had the business that made the money, right? So yay, I love that. That's amazing. You already got one of your belt. Look how young you are And that you were able to pivot right and make a change it didn't take you down It didn't take you under it was like oh, I'm gonna do this other thing and then you liked it So that was first thing I love that and then the second thing I never hear you mention this Riley any time that you talk about what you do And I think that everybody should know this because something that you do that nobody else does Anywhere near as good as you do actually do you know what it is? Uh You do something way better than everybody else way better if I had to take a stab at stab at it I'd like to pride myself on the communication being able to get back to people quickly in just Being there to help when they need it Okay, you are good at that But this thing that you do is so much better than everybody else and I guess you don't even know what it is So I'm gonna tell you and I'm gonna tell everybody else You can take a concept Just a a concept just I can throw out hey three lines to you Hey Riley, I need something like you know, I need a website and I need like a few different pages on there And I these are the colors that I like and I want to try and sell stuff But I'm not sure how much or how how it's gonna be but it's for small businesses. Can you get me started? And it'll have all the text and it'll have a store and it'll have it'll be ready to go. I'll be like Well, yeah, that's exactly what I wanted or yeah, not that little piece on that page You know on page three page one's good page two is good page three. I'm not sure what you were talking about there They're like, oh, okay. I'll have that fixed in ten minutes You basically build my website without me even knowing What it is I'm trying to do yet. So every time I go and look I'm like so something's wrong with this page I'm not really sure what what's wrong. I just don't like it. Well, what don't you like? Well, doesn't seem like people are gonna like understand how good this thing is Mm-hmm You'll just go in and it'll sound amazing. All right now people want to buy it So I don't even know what that's called I don't know how to describe that in a better way you need to figure that out though because you Create content. Nobody else knows how to create content. I can just give you a an Idea and you can I don't know. It's just Tom. What is that called? Is it just my mind? It's the difference between design and development There's a lot of people out there that can build something for you if you give them detailed specifications Yeah, but you know being able to take a concept and visualize that and figure out How to design it and then develop that's that's much rarer I mean those folks are hard to find you're lucky to have Riley in your camp and I'll yeah Just for anybody else who's thinking about building a website. I'll throw, you know, is you know rocket thruster calm Yeah You can so he's he's currently working on my cleaning profit builders comm website and That how many pages does that thing have now Riley any idea off top of your head ball? 13 So when I talked to him about this originally I was like I need this little tiny website I think it's a small project Riley like maybe two three pages and I just need a little bit help. Can you help me with that now? I've got 12 some pages It's all branded correctly. It's I'm it's not done yet. I just sent him a video on Saturday He's saying hey Riley. I need this stuff. I need that stuff Here we are. We're He put all this in here. I didn't do any of this. I didn't anything that you see that's text in there He he put in I I didn't do any of this So You need a good way to talk about that Riley so that people understand What a huge differentiator that is because it really is it is There are a lot of people like me in this space Entrepreneurs that I don't want to spend an hour and a half writing every single thing has to be on my website And then giving it to you and then having you just copy it and paste it. I don't want to do that I I don't know the right words. I don't know what needs to be tagged. I don't know any of that and either does anybody When I've tried to work with other people they couldn't do it either Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I will not have pegged that that I guess Benefit in what I'm doing because in some cases what I'm doing is just designing websites for people And it just becomes part of what I do. So I would not have pegged that is Maybe one of the the key benefits as to how I got help people and I'm glad you said that Yes, and you write very well. You don't have Type we sell them have typos everybody has typos, right? But you always catch your typos too. So that's Everything is grammatically correct. I don't have to fix any of that stuff. Which does Riley does does list point out too when you spell something wrong Yeah, she'll catch it She wears me out Gifted in that way, you know Liz was the state spelling bee champion. Was it Michigan, yeah No, no, no, it was it was the Michigan State in elementary school y'all. I was You still have a gift, you know, that's cool. I like to spell. Okay. Yeah, this is like the great talent, right? Anyway, I did just want to point that little thing out there Riley because you don't know how good you are and it's really hard to find Okay, so make sure you know know about that. Yes But I did want to talk about like the two of you guys together I Kind of wanted to get a little bit so people have heard me say this all the time one of the books that I recommend is How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so or how to how to talk so kids will listen and how to listen So kids will talk because working with employees is a lot Like working with children. You got to make them feel like their value You got to make them see the bigger the bigger picture, right? Or especially if you're trying to give your children values and have them grow up in a certain way and and fit into your Culture of your family. You've got to create that. You know, they're they're not just automatically going to be fitting in and so In my mind, you've done that perfectly with your employee I wish I could make him an employee So I was thinking you got that right Liz. Yep, I know Martha you she knows all about this too Anytime you're talking about employee engagement. You can use so many of the parenting strategies that you know that work really well So I was wondering Jonathan Did you when you were raising Riley was it your plan to sort of raise him up as an entrepreneur or Did you just get lucky with him or did you use any strategies in your parenting that you can see? Hmm. I also use those a lot of those strategies with my and my leadership I don't know when it comes to the parenting thing I've definitely thought a lot about trying to be a good parent Tiffany has as well my wife Tiffany So we've definitely made an attempt at it, but it's really hard to crystallize You know any specific thing you did so I would say that my general belief in life and business is you are the example Like that to me is the is top the top level of everything So you can say whatever you want to say But if you don't live it and they don't see you live it then it's meaningless language And that's true inside an organization and it's true inside a family And so when we when we talk about the entrepreneurship I One thing I have always felt strongly about and it's pretty obvious which direction Riley's going I don't know which direction gauge my younger son's going just yet but I Have never wanted to turn them into any version of me or Try to cast them or push them in any direction where they're gonna do something alive to make money or In there it's oh in that's the focus. I mean I'd love them to make money. That's great But I want them to do the thing in life that just makes them really happy and proud of themselves and proud of their accomplishments and so it didn't have to be business, but I am a Hardcore passionate person about entrepreneurship because I think it molds business owners into a different kind of person and can turn Them into a really good person in a lot of different ways so I definitely would love that for the boys and So I where I started this was the example I think that that would be probably what I would say as I they have grown up around this. They've seen it I've always talked about business. I've talked about money in our house. I Don't hide stuff from them They hear, you know, they hear the good the bad the conversation They hear the whole thing to hear about what's going on at work And so I would say that I would I've tried to be a good example and they've seen I mean Riley's been around 19 years He's seen our our me travel a lot. He's seen me be very busy He's seen me be less busy seen our financial situations evolve over time. He's seen us be very conservative with money I mean I've talked to them about investing since they were young guys. I just so I Don't feel like I'm directly answering your question. It's been more of just lots of conversations where it hasn't been me preaching at them It's I've just tried to live it and involve them in what business is For our family and what business could be for them. I Think you're directly answering my question. I think you are literally giving people the The answer to how to engage your employees. Don't preach at them talk with them Show them what you do show them how it works be passionate about what you care about that Passionate is catchy. I'm guessing yeah, Riley Yeah, you see your dad be passionate. Yeah, and act in the ways that That matter to you and make all of it seem okay There is not another 19 year old person I think that's gonna jump on a Facebook live and say in front of who knows how many people He doesn't know that yeah, I had a business and it was kind of failing Somehow you made that okay You made it okay to be failing and that is an amazing thing to do for your people your kids anybody Yeah, let's just move forward from that. So Failing is an opportunity to improve get better. I mean, yeah In I'm sure that Riley you've picked us up from your father that you know Success is kind of a day-to-day thing and it was not working now It, you know, try hard. Maybe it'll work tomorrow. If not, you're gonna try something different Conversely, you might be very successful today, but that doesn't really guarantee. You know what tomorrow is going to be either But you're like you're 19. Wow. I didn't is that Liz you Share that so I guess that to be are you 19 Riley? I am 19 Yeah, that is that is crazy So, you know so awesome about that especially, you know from an entrepreneurship standpoint is you got a lot of runway ahead of You can afford to fail, you know a bunch of times Yeah, only I could have known the things Riley has known and been exposed to it 19 years Frankly, it started at very young but but what he's experienced from 17 18 19 as he's really been working in business Oh my goodness what a head start in life to to get to do that stuff. I Yeah, and so much more fun, too. Yeah, you only have to get it right one time But you get to get it right as many times as you want to Look at what you do Jonathan. You have so many different businesses so many different things that you love and They all tie into your one big passion of home services But you you get to do a lot of different things Riley. You're already starting on that, right? So Patricia had a question here, too. Oh, hey, Trisha. I was just reading your name. I realize who you are now Rocket thruster you can check him out rocket thruster.com. Yeah, and But I'll drop it again Martha's putting it up there, too. Yeah, here's his website. We got a lot of big names here. Martha's here today. I see Mike Callahan with us today Yeah, Trisha's here, Rochelle. I see a lot of people that are commenting too. Yeah, so Riley Tell me real quick When you think so right now you don't currently have anybody that's working for you. Is that correct? Not yet You're a one-man show doing it all Do you do you see yourself taking any of the leadership lessons that your dad has poured into you and Using them with your employees or had you even really thought about that before or? so Generally, I mean we've talked about a lot of things a lot of the lessons that he's learned We've certainly talked about But generally the way that I find that I learned best is when it actually becomes part of what I'm doing so When it comes time for me to hire somebody I'm gonna really start I guess gobbling up that that information and really learning the most when I'm actually having to do it I find that I really struggled to hold on to a lot of this information when it's not quite that time yet unfortunately, so I haven't gotten to that point yet, but there will certainly come a time when The information that we've talked about it's gonna it it's gonna become something that I need to put into play and actually Utilize so we've certainly talked about stuff, but when it comes time to start hiring people. That's when everything's gonna start Piecing itself together and really work out to be something Well, I'm very much that same way that I have all of this information But I'm only really paying attention to the stuff that I'm using right now The rest is kind of on the the back burner So my only thing for you is don't forget that you have this wonderful role model Right, and you already kind of know the stuff so Do I'm wondering Jonathan. Do you have Things that when you because you have a lot of people that work for you you have a lot of leaders that you have to Train to be good leaders What are some of the things that you are looking to teach them? Or how do you how do you build good leaders in in your organizations? Do you do it the same way and all your organizations or? It was it's probably it's evolved maybe the better in better than maybe the better answer than saying I do it the same or different across organizations with me would be more that it's evolved over time what I mean by that is earlier inside an organization When you're bringing on talent and you only have so much money You're off you're really making a bet on an individual that you think has this is the way I look at it has Quite a bit of potential Is a quality individual that's going to work really hard that wants to grow and learn You're really hoping to find those types of individuals and they may not have the done it skill set yet in certain areas that you need And so you need and want them to grow up inside the organization And so there's an element of coaching and in training and I can come back to that but then as the business progresses and you're moving quickly and and everything I'm involved in is bigger businesses at this point they're all eight figure businesses and and so it's a very different stage than it used to be and And And with the speed at which the businesses are moving We really have to more and more go get at the top level individuals that have done it So and I'll come back to the the real question, which is the training and coaching But what if I've learned one I've learned so many things but one thing I've really learned and internalized is There is always an individual whether it be a consultant or a coach or a team member That can solve whatever the problem is you're having whatever the question is whatever the problem is whatever the stress is Whatever the frustration is doesn't matter what it is somebody has that skill set and can solve it and so if you want to Make life better faster, and if you want to go faster Then if you can afford it you're best to go find somebody that has truly done it and has the experience in Whatever you're trying to solve and so that's really how I think more today Than the majority of my business career I'm trying to find somebody that I literally can just hand it to them and they can run it almost like they're running a mini business Inside my business my conversations if I'm getting the right person should not be about coaching them on how to do a thing They're more of peer conversations about here's the strategy. We're working here the metrics. We're working towards here The challenges we're seeing Can I support you in any way to solve those problems? But they kind of know what to do and they know how to run with the ball and they know how to figure it out So that's that's the in my opinion the ultimate goal of where you're trying to get from a coaching standpoint with younger Team members and younger meaning maybe by age or by just skill set in terms of whatever role they're moving into I Am willing to pay for them to of course read any book go to events go to conferences Like I'm willing to pay for them to get training I want them to hang around with other individuals inside my organization That can be a mentor towards to them if they're coming into a role Then they need to and they don't know exactly what to do They need to shadow and spend time with Individ with with whomever might be their their example inside the organization and so That's been what I've done most of my careers tried to find ways where I could work with them directly Talk to them frequently and help them and or get them someone external to the organization to help and coach them up That's how I've thought about it Is that what you were asking? Yeah Yeah, and in the whole evolution when you're a startup when you're a small company you know the idea of hiring people in various disciplines that you need to run a business who Have the experience that really know how to do that just economically is is not real of our means And I don't and I would just add to Tom that not only that I never really understood For the longest time what it meant to really ghost get someone that could just run it and own it I just I thought I knew what that was and I would have even said years back I've been hiring these kinds of individuals and then you get to the next level like wait a second I've been hiring some great people, but there's a whole another level and so until you've even Experienced it you don't even know what to look for you don't even know what this means so so here's the risk or the opportunity is that You you run your business the way you've been running your business and you're growing your business in spite of the challenges and your way you're basically playing the hand your dealt the team that you have and You know I could see scenarios where you get to the point where you really could Hire that next person who knows how to do it rather than who has the aptitude to figure it out But you're not even what you're suggesting I think Jonathan is you aren't even thinking that way because that's never been part of your your thought process All you know is what you've been doing in years past How do you know when you get to the point where you know why it's time to roll the dice and and break off the checkbook and You know hire hired the person that I wouldn't really felt that I could afford in the past But really can do the job and In a different way and take us to another level That's it's such a complicated question right there because there's as you know, there are just so many things that have to come together um I think what really happens is In business most of us Take those steps At least the first step of hiring somebody like you're describing when we reach a point of just complete Exhaustion or we're tired or we're just so frustrated It usually I think early on comes from a place At least this is what I feel like I've seen often that it usually comes from a place of just I can't do this anymore. I need some help or I need to spend the money I just my family can't handle me being gone this much anymore What and that's usually what what makes it happen that first time and then sometimes you hire somebody where you You're really kind of rolling the dice You're taking a risk sometimes it doesn't go well and that's not an uncommon story I think a lot in the in the green industry where I spent a lot of time Operations managers are almost the single most important hire And I don't know how you would who would be some of your most important hires in the residential cleaning space But in and they're the ones that just orchestrate all the crews or teams And manage all of that and sometimes that that's a that's not a Massive hire financially in in terms of the way I think about things now But that is a very scary hire if you're hiring somebody with experience That's a not necessarily an inexpensive person if you're really getting a done it person with a lot of experience And so that's a very again scary hire for many people and sometimes it goes really well And that gives the individual the confidence like oh my goodness Look at all the problems that just got solved. Look at all the things. I was just able to take off my plate And from that point forward they have the confidence to make these types of hires and then other times which is so common Your first big expenditure starts to drain the bank account And then you're scared to fire this person They've got a family and that makes a lot of individuals sort of clam up and say I don't know if there are really that many good people out there that I could get and then it almost sets them back Where they have to get to a just an incomplete place of pain before they take that risk yet again and so I think that You know and there's so many other things we could say about your question But I think that's what usually happens with that first hire And for too many it doesn't go very well and that just slows the business down again until they're ready to take that that risk and at that point they're You're basically putting people in roles that are convenient or there or at a lower price point or For for a number of reasons, but a lot of times, you know, I I I've seen the clam up thing. I've lived it. I've done it We all have done it You know, a lot of times it's the path of least resistance and it's hard to admit that, you know, I just took the easy way out but Being aware of that Especially today because I know a lot of businesses who've got some ppp funds or idle loans and stuff like that And you know, you're going to use that money. You need to do it in terms of an investment but It's not hard to imagine if you hire that operations manager that truly Is, you know, capable of doing things that that, you know, your incumbents can't How much better do they have to be before they've more than than paid for their salary Even if their salary is higher than anything you've ever paid before Yeah Great and You know, I think there's a and I I didn't come up with this I think I heard it from a fellow by the name of dan solovan who has an organization called strategic coach And he calls team members investments And the reason why I've heard it and use that language and it's it's stuck with me the very first time I heard it is because we think about our pnl and we think about a team member as an expense to the organization And that's how we we think. Okay. What's the the the cost going to be of this person? What's the burden the labor burden going to be on this per what what are they going to cost me? They're an expense we that's where they fall on the pnl But the reality is every single team member if you get the right team member is is truly an investment in the business and one of the Problems that every one of us and I have been so guilty of this has done and I see it So often as a area holding back a lot of companies is we're not moving Team members off the team fast enough that shouldn't be on the team And so I'll go back to my operator and that sounds like a cold-hearted thing to say But I mean I I am incredibly loyal person and I'm very loyal to my team But we're doing a real disservice to fellow team members and to the company itself when we carry individuals It shouldn't remain on team and so I'll go back to my operations as an example I've seen this so many times you you finally spend the money And they didn't live up to what you thought they were capable of doing There's some challenges or some kind of problem. And so now they're just a team member that isn't really being invested in They're not they haven't they haven't achieved for the organization the goal of what you had in mind And they that you carry that individual And so now you're spending a lot of money and you've got a person in the role that isn't acting like an investment They're not making the organization better. They're not proactively figuring out ways to improve the business Maybe their language isn't what it needs to be with their co-workers or with clients in the way in which they serve the client And you carry them and it's to me. It's one more little Kind of dart or not it's like a one more little little jab in the little knife in the stomach or something It's just like it's exhausting. It's painful. It drags the business. You're a little more exhausted about the business It didn't make anything better It actually made the company just a little bit worse And you just keep piling on these decisions and it's no wonder that so many individuals end up in a place where They're just burned out done unexcited about can't find the energy for their business any longer and so Um, it's you know, I deviated a little bit, but the carrying the wrong team member on the team I think is also a major major issue. I've seen inside of the organizations that um, you know, it's not just the hiring It's not just taking the risk It's having the really difficult conversations with someone when they're no longer the right person for the team Yeah, you have a responsibility to everybody else that works for your company and all the clients you serve to Make sure you've got the right people, especially these leverage positions But I've always looked at it as a humane thing to do because everybody deserves the chance to be successful as well And just leaving them in a job because they need to pay check Isn't really doing them a favor either put them in a position I mean, you know be be humane and there's a certain process Obviously you need to go through but at some point you're doing them a favor by putting them in a position Where they at least have a chance of finding that job that they could be successful at I 100% agree. I'll tell you we've made mistakes over time where I think back to one of our very early team members in service autopilot His name was Ian. This is in the very beginning of the business and I remember john and I interviewing Ian And we put him in a support role. He never wanted to be in a support role He just wanted a job But he kept telling us he doesn't really like to do support and when we ultimately had to let Ian go um John and I are like he told us the entire time that he didn't really want this job He applied for it, but he didn't really want it and then he failed in the job We let him go if we we let him go way too late and I've done this so many times and then We heard about Ian getting another job elsewhere and I'm just Completely confirming what you're saying. Tom. We heard about Ian getting another job somewhere else Who wasn't in support and they loved him. He was doing phenomenal. Ian was not a bad guy He didn't do great work in the role He was in because it sucked all the life and energy out of him. It wasn't how he was built But you get him into his right role. He's a great guy great team member great Whatever he's probably doing great today And so a lot of times when we're releasing a team member It's it's like let's help them in life get to the place where they really need to be where they'll thrive It in you just illustrated another point that I think is important as well If you're the CEO of the company and you're coming to the conclusion that there's somebody in an important role That's not a good fit. Guess what? You're probably the last person to figure it out And once you make that decision and you deal with it And I have the people that you know report you will come up and say well great great move. What took you so long? Oh have I had that experience so many times It's almost an internal joke Especially as the business gets bigger and you have to follow all your steps of moving somebody out of the organization You know, it really can can lengthen the amount of time Yes, that is our internal joke that everybody's making fun of us right now while we're working this process is to get the person out the company because everybody else knows And it's a that's always the experience. So it's so true There is one more thing about that too. Actually, there's two things about that that popped into my head real quick One is the longer you keep that person and Have experiences more times than I want to admit to How many great people are leaving because of that? You're losing great people because of this one person that you're not letting go of these other people are like Yeah, I'm done with this company that are is doing this stuff And then one other thing that you were talking about earlier Jonathan when we first brought up this topic and then we got to get to martha's question Is You know at some point in time like when you're a small company and you're bringing on people You're the smartest person in the room You know all of the things and you know all of the stuff But at some point in time you have to hire people that are smarter than you Right now when you're small, but at some point in time You you can't get it done You you are capped out at your level you might have some areas that you can do better But there need to be smarter people than you doing some of these jobs Whichever ones you're not the smartest person at and so I think that's a real hard shift for people too Is when do I Make that shift? I don't know. I just a lot of people struggle with that one of the things that I think about Um Specific to that is I've we at service autopilot and a couple other things I do I've really bought into this thing called Colby a ko lb And it's uh, it's a basically it's without getting into the weeds from the four numbers of Colby I can really understand how someone's wired And what and to a large degree what will give them energy and well what what will suck energy out of them And so when I think about that and you're the owner and you you are the smartest person in the room in the early days And as quick as you can just as you said you really don't want to be that person because That means you're carrying wearing all the hats and so the way I think you know It's easy to you know, maybe ask me or ask you or ask tom Hey, what should be my first hire? Who should be my third hire should be an office person an off spanger And I can rattle that off But and I I could give that advice But I really if I can have a conversation with the person what I really want to know Is what is it that you're showing up and doing every day? That's just draining all the energy out of you So is it doing the bookkeeping? Is it answering the phone? Is it You know, is it going out meeting with clients? What is that thing and to me? That's one of the early indicators of where you hire You know somebody like me might say oh, you should get an operations manager. That's the most important first hire Well, maybe but maybe not because in business what we're trying to do is outrun burnout And we all face it constantly in our businesses and if you get to a place where you burn out You'll never turn your company into what you originally dreamed of it being And so how do you outrun burnout? You get the stuff off your plate that sucks all the life and energy out of you And so maybe the common path isn't your path Maybe it's that you just need an assistant frankly first Somebody that can just do all kinds of little things for you. That's a generalist You know, that's not the common advice But that might be what it is for you because you get so many things off your plate You get re-energized and you can be good at the operations manager role again And then you look for the next thing that's taking all the energy from you So that's that's the way I think about it oftentimes and I I think about that both as a from a company Understand point, but also as you're building your organization with your teams How can you understand what it is that will make your team member live in a place as much as possible of Getting to work in a high level of energy and do the thing that they love doing And how can I get them to that role inside the organization and get other stuff off their plate? And so I I think that's just a fundamental way to think about business. That's really really valuable Yeah, I totally agree and I love that term outrun burnout I wrote that down. I'm gonna be sharing that one. That's it. That's a good Uh, jonathan potachnik quote right there I love that I do I love that Especially for very small companies a lot of times your first hire is just get an assistant don't get too fancy Just get somebody to do the stuff that you don't have time to do Yeah, yeah I don't know even big companies. I mean there comes a time when The number one thing you can do is have somebody doing all the other stuff a pa is like Oh my gosh, you just like saved my life by going and running all of these crazy errands that Are sucking all of the time out of my day and out of my life. So Um, you can afford it. You can buy time for sure Yeah Nice. Yep. All right. So martha did have a question for riley about What uh, oh he has she had a couple of them here. We missed one. Sorry This was What are your favorite what are your favorite type of projects that you've taken on at rocket thruster? I think generally my favorite type of project is the one where we're kind of building something scratch They don't already have a website out and going. They're not just kind of pointing me to things that they want me to fix It's kind of this co-op Project where we're working together to create something that they really like that's That's my favorite type of project where we can both imagine Something brand new come up with something that they're really happy with and not working off of something that they're kind of happy with But it's not quite what they're looking for. Maybe they're working within a budget or something but Those types of projects where we can really both work on it together create something they really like and just Come up with something from scratch Those are a lot of fun. I really enjoy those projects and with that we uh, we kind of strategize What's the most important thing to them that they want to achieve with the project? These are all questions that we get to kind of dress in the project to Create something that plays an important role in their business. I those types of projects are Really really fun Before you hit that question tom before you hit that question speaking to what riley's talking about right now So you're working together with people on these new brand new stuff. I'm thinking that I'm going along with today's topic. You do have to lead them down the right path, right? Because I'm sure you get people that are like, this is what I want. I want it like this And it's not the right answer. It's not going to work. It's not going to get them the results that they want I know I have a tendency to want things to look good and it needs to be okay. It can look good, but Liz don't forget it has to bring you money first. Oh, yeah, okay, bring me So you do have to leave people down that path. Do you find that challenging being only 19? No, not exactly and while I may be leading them down Maybe the right path or some some path. It's very much a conversation In the process we work together and come up with the design Talking about the design process at this point. We come up with something They really like the look of but in that I also walk them through Okay, what are the parts of this website? We need to make sure that we have in place to actually make this key part of The main objective bringing their business more money So while in some places people may want something to look really good I kind of have to reel them back in and say Maybe we should do it this way because this is what's going to help the people on your website It's going to answer their questions. It's going to build that trust And it's going to make it easy for them to get started in many ways Those are the three things that a website really needs if it's going to perform well You have to you have to address the things that matter most to them To kind of let them know. Hey, you're a good quality option in say the house cleaning industry So that would be one thing I guess I could leave them down the right path and help them out When it comes to building and designing websites So you're using your dad's strategy You're basically talking with them and leading them toward what makes good sense and helping them to see it So you're basically using your dad's strategy back to what you said, jonathan. You're modeling it And I can I can attest. I mean it is not I can't imagine that it is easy for somebody Under their 20s to be getting somebody in their 60s to do things the right way Right and especially business owners because we have a tendency to want everything done our way Think that, you know, we we want to do our thing and you do that really well. So Pointing pointing out what you're doing. I think it's helpful to everybody on this call too Look, no matter who we're talking to or about what role it always comes down to some of those basic things talking with people helping them to be able to see it for themselves the win for them And working working with them So super good. All right, we got to get to martha's question before she's like lis come on now What is the biggest or most common mistake you see when you're doing a website audit? I would say probably a lack of action on people's websites going back and focusing on the topic of Making sure your website generates results. Some people have really good webs or really good looking websites But what they lack are Say for example some options for called actions phone numbers buttons on their website They they lack these things on their website that are it's going to be the thing that drives them results and bring Puts more prospects and leads In the funnel. So that would be the biggest thing I guess to add on to that another thing would just be the Answering people's questions We made in some cases many businesses and I was very much in this boat when I first launched my software product And I built the website for this I talked a lot about maybe the features the features of the product But what a lot of these people want to come and come and see is if you're right for them What can you do for me and a lot of things around that subject? So if we can format the website around Answering important questions addressing concerns Maybe talking about some pain points that they may have that would get them out of their chair to take action That's going to be another really important Uh part of the website it's going to get these people to say yes, I'm ready to move forward So called actions and answering questions Those are two things that I see a lot of websites miss out on when they when they came talking to them to build it with someone else So we should all go back and look at our websites and ask if you know, we are actually you know, have the right Things in place to sell something We're really we're really asking people to to engage with us. Are we getting their contact info? Are we asking them to spend money with us? And give them a reason to do it We've got a couple of minutes left. Where would you like to go with us? Liz what? I'm just curious Do you either one of you guys both of you guys have any last things most of the people that are going to be watching Our show here. Um, they're going to be watching it over a course of time too I'm going to be uh companies that are you know Up to maybe two and a half three million dollars four million dollar businesses So not not these big huge businesses that you're dealing with Jonathan A little bit smaller type businesses. Do you guys have any last-minute advice about Leading the people that we tend to have to lead well, um I would say That a two to four million dollar business is a Very nice place to be at On the other side of that as you're at least from my experience and i've i've done three businesses past 10 million And my experience has been that that's still a pretty challenging place And I I don't know how it is for everybody else, but I found in all three businesses that past five million Things really started to get better Um and not saying that a two to four million dollar business is a problem business or not a good business But the thing that I would uh, maybe I could give a couple thoughts here one thing that I'd really say is that For those businesses You're getting so close to a place where you can afford more and more Leaders in the organization or higher level leaders And it just really starts to make I'll I frankly makes business more fun because now you just you continue to work with individuals that Are They can just run with the ball and they can just take care of things and you don't need to know about What's going on on this part of the business on a daily basis you can talk about it in Once a quarter you can talk about once a month you can talk about your weekly one-on-ones And they can just run with the ball So first I would encourage those that are at this place where you know You're maybe a one to four million one to three million dollar business, whatever that is that you're so dang close You know just keep your foot on the gas pedal and go because it just keeps getting better and better And then the last thing I'd say is related to that it's all about people It's so easy to think that You know I I was very very influenced by Some marketing individuals That I learned so much about marketing and I became very passionate about marketing I still love it to this day and all those gurus all of them they if you call them a guru I don't really love that name, but they all are about Marketing or they're about sales and a lot of them were about not building businesses with very many team members And they didn't want that and The and it's really easy to get excited about and focused on just marketing or just sales or just this thing But the entire game of business is actually about people I can go find somebody to run marketing. I can find somebody to help me run my google ad words campaigns What most people can't do is build a team A great team build a culture and care for those individuals and cast division on where we're going And show up every day and be an example That's what is the real skill set in my opinion And that is the number one thing you want to cultivate because that's the real game of business everything else could be hired But it's very difficult to go find Really incredible leaders that can build really incredible teams around them And so spend all your time and energy doing that and getting really good at it And then today it's the same thing riley said about marketing In terms of caring for and developing a team If you really truly care about people and you really want to have them have a better life And you invest in them they're gonna want to work with you If you do right by them and you don't try to optimize every dollar for you And you don't try to make yourself look like and I know this is not what most people do But you're the one with all the ideas if you like truly invest in individuals And you help them and you know that one day they're not going to be at your organization And that's okay because they're going to grow and they're going to move on to their next thing in life That's fine. But while they were with you They learned a lot. They grew a lot. They contributed. They were an investment to help grow your organization That's phenomenal. And that's what your job is. That is what your job is to develop people care for them Have conversations with them Help improve their life both in business and personally and they'll stick with you And that's how I think you build an awesome company and that's the entire game So and anybody that's in two and three four you're on you're you're living that now you're on the cusp of it So it's exciting place to be so riley Well, I don't have any anything specific since I have yet to get to that point If I could ask a question and going back to Maybe what we were talking about when it came to the e an example and this could help some people But this is also something I'm curious about When it comes to having somebody who is Showing that they don't necessarily They're not interested in their position. Maybe they're struggling in a position Is it okay to move people in or put people in different positions Within the company. Maybe they've already Maybe they've already kind of shown that They don't like that position. Can you move them or have they already caused maybe some trouble inside and it's not Beneficial to keep them along Is there another option to just hiring them outright or can you just move the Ideal is if I found somebody that's a Just a great person that is a culture fit inside organization that Is you know that lives the values of the business basically simply said what we believe is an organization Um, I don't want to lose them And so if I could move them to another position that I believe that they could excel absolutely The only reason why you wouldn't do that is if In their dislike for the position they've been in they've exhibited any behaviors that are just Not the kind of characteristics that you want inside the organization or they've caused trouble in some way that's just not You know that of what a really high quality individual do but outside of that If I can move them somewhere else That's exactly what I want to do because it's so hard to find awesome people And if you find them you want to get them in the right seat Working on the right problems and you don't want to lose them. So yeah, absolutely What you don't want to do is just You just don't want to move what what we all are risk of is we don't want to have the hard conversation And get and move somebody outside the organization because we don't want to hurt their feelings They've got a family whatever the case. It's just terrible. It's the worst part of business And so sometimes we compromise we tell ourselves a story and we move people To avoid dealing with the problem. That's the caution, but if you're not doing that then yeah, wonderful move them if you can All right. Well, I know we do have to wrap things up, but yeah, I feel like This was the perfect call to end this month on I feel like Everything was awesome on this call. It really was and one last thing I want to say to everybody that is in the strategic success groups Y'all heard that you heard what jonathan said Y'all's goals are now up to five million. I don't care what it's not your phone for now Five million. That's the goal It's an awesome business awesome number. So nice We are at the top of the hour and I see a couple people popping in here saying gee you guys started early Hey, did he sorry we just tried something different We're gonna be back wednesday at our normal time five o'clock eastern And if you're just hopping on wondering why we're hopping off Well, you can still watch the whole live stream the way most people do anyway and Um come back wednesday and ask questions jonathan riley this is You guys are great. Thank you. No, thank you both You know, I hopefully I think this is I this is the first time either one of you've been on smart business moves Yes, correct. Yeah, correct. Well, at least me. I can't speak for riley. I've done that on this So, you know, I Hope it I certainly hope it's not the last this was this was very good and very much. I'll be able to do it again. Thank you both Yeah, thank you guys. I enjoyed it. All right. See you later. Uh, We'll be back Wednesday five. Bye. Bye