 You looking to get lean? Well, you might need to bulk first in order to make that happen. All right. Let's talk about this. I know, right? The backwards advice? Yeah. Wait a minute. I want to get lean, but I got to bulk. Oh, yeah. We're in backwards land. Yeah. No. You know, this is good advice for a lot of people because when you're getting lean, you have to eat less calories than you burn, right? You got to cut your calories. But people don't think beyond once they hit their goal, right? You want to be able to cut your calories to a point where the maintenance calories now, when you're lean, is something you can sustain. And so, if you're going to cut your calories and they're low and hard for you to maintain, you're screwed. So, bulking, speed the metabolism, build some muscle, kind of like a reverse diet, gives you more room to do the cut afterwards. So, I like that advice, but I'm going to take it a step further. I think that there's tremendous value in doing the opposite of whatever you tend to do no matter which side of the fence you want, meaning. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Like, how, I mean, and I know you can interrupt the process. I know you can definitely relate to this because you and I were both the same way we were on a permanent bulk for most of our lives, right? Because we had this insecurity about being skinny. So, I was always bulking. And, you know, one of the best things I ever did in pursuit of the bulk was actually run a cut for a while because I had never really done that. And one, I got leaner and quote unquote smaller, but I got the compliments my insecure ass was looking for forever, which was, oh my God, you look so big. And I thought this is crazy. Yeah, I lost 15 pounds. Yeah, I lost 15 pounds. I'm getting all these comments. And then when I went back into the bulk, my body just responded amazing. And so, and I think the same thing is true is for the kid or the guy or girl who struggled with weight loss their whole life. They've always been 40, 50 pounds overweight. They're, if they're either not paying attention at all, or they're on a strict diet and they're trying to cut taking that person and saying, Hey, let's start to add food to your diet. Let's try and build some muscle. Let's put you on a bulk even though you want to lose 50 pounds first and then cut. So I think even better advice is to evaluate what do you typically do all the time and then maybe even potentially. Yeah, I'm glad you, I'm glad you clarified because, and by the way, bulk is not just eating a bunch of garbage. And when we, when we're, what we're referring to when we say bulk is eating in a surplus that allows you to build lean body mass, but not too much body fat. So it's a small surplus, you know, clean bulk or whatever you want to call it. And you have to pair that with effective strength training or resistance training speeds up the metabolism. You get your maintenance calories. In other words, the calories that require your body requires to stay the same to go up, up, up, up. And then when you cut, you got all this room to cut calories. And then what you said about like what you and I experienced, I noticed this incredible resensitizing effect to calories. Like I would just eat more and eat more. And it got to the point was like, I got to eat 4,000 plus calories to make anything move. Then I went on an actual cut, just like you did, which took me a long time to even attempt. I got lean. And then it was like the most sensitive my body had ever become to calories. And I was able to build muscle. Well, and there's a threshold to bulking as well to where you find yourself just bloated and gassy. Your body is literally just fighting you throughout the entire process. And it's, you don't have to keep pushing and driving, you know, you know, going through that process of pain and anguish to make it happen. Like you can kind of bring it back and step out a bit and make sure your body responds the way you want it to by just interrupting that. It's funny because what you're saying is the body is sitting there trying to give you all these signals that you need to go. Just ignore them. Yeah, but you ignore them because of your insecurities. But I really like though, I mean the original, I wanted to add to it, but your original tip with somebody trying to lose weight. I remember this being a really challenging conversation, right? So person sits in front of me. Super hard. They've been struggling with weight loss their whole life. I know you want to lose weight. Right. They've yo-yo dieted up and down. They've tried all these different diets. I assess the way they're currently eating and their goals. And they want to say, let's say lose 50 plus pounds or whatever. And I go, okay, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to increase your calories. And they freak out because they're just like, that's not why I'm hiring you. But the truth is the people that hire me at that stage, most of them have already tried dieting on their own. And what the diets look like are crash diets where they restrict calories like crazy. And they, you know, do cardio and do everything they can. And they've completely slowed their metabolism down. So I get somebody who is 230, 250 plus pounds and they're eating 1500 calories. And they're like, And where are we going to go? Yeah, like, we can't, we can't cut from it. And even if they, let's say they're at still at 2200, 2200 calories for someone who's 250 plus pounds is a very low. You're going to end up at 1200 calories. That's right. So, you know, when I see that, I go, okay, and that's, you have to be able to articulate that to somebody and say, You want to know what I used to say, which was kind of a trick. And it's not really a trick. I think as a coach, you have to figure out how to communicate certain things. Because what you're talking about is such an uphill battle. And sometimes the most convincing coach and trainer, you're just not going to convince the person. So what I would say to people is, I'm not going to worry about your nutrition yet. Right now, we're just going to work out and we're going to take this one step at a time. The reason why I would say that is I know that if I said that, then most likely they're going to eat at least a maintenance or a surplus. Right. And it gives me the opportunity to build strength and muscle and metabolism. And then three months later down the line, then we could start to talk about. Yeah, I'm always trying to have them focus on rebuilding the body first, like building the body up. And so it just works better. And I think that's, that's totally not something somebody coming in for weight loss is ever going to focus on. And that's, you know, as a coach, it's, you know, if you can get them to get into that mentality so that later on the weight loss process becomes so much more effective and it sticks longer. So I would focus on something that I'm trying to increase. Normally when you get someone like that, they are, you know, most common thing, either under consuming protein, under consuming fiber, under consuming potentially healthy fats. Normally one, and so instead of even talking about calories, I go the direction of, oh, we need to increase protein because we need to build muscle and I would make the case for speeding the metabolism up. So I wouldn't, I too would not focus on, hey, I'm going to make you eat lots more because that would freak someone like that out. Right. You just say, hey, I assess the diet and we definitely need to increase protein intake. So I would focus there knowing that I'm also bumping calories a tiny bit, but I'm not really telling them that. All I'm doing is like, Hey, we need more fiber or we need more protein or we need more healthy fats in your diet. And they don't really look at it like I'm telling them they need to eat more food and they don't freak out. Yeah. I know. Speaking of the bulk thing, like what you said, Justin, I mean, I'll give you guys my personal, I ignored all my body signals forever because I was so hardheaded about it. I think we all did in here. At one point, this is true. Everybody does. I remember this at one point. The breakfast I would have, so I was probably a senior in high school. This is when I was like, all in like this is going to happen. Right. And my breakfast consisted of a punch bowl of Cheerios. So this was like, maybe a quart of whole milk in order to make this happen. 12 egg scrambled. So 12 eggs scrambled. And then on the way to school, toast and bananas. This is what I would have for breakfast. I feel bad for the kid that sat behind you. Oh, dude. I would sit, I'd be in the school, holding it together, you know? Oh yeah. Keep it down. I did the same, but it was with like the, like the beach scooper size of protein powder, weight gainer, and then add in like five egg yolks and then also peanut butter on top of that and just rumbles all day long, like especially after I work out, it was just gas. Dropping heat. Yeah, just heat everywhere. That's terrible. Yeah.