 Good evening and welcome. So this is, you know, we are on the dreamers and unicorns chat. So I have with me today, somebody who's really interested in creating 10 million jobs. And that is what we are going to talk about. So the 10 million roadmap is the subject of what we are going to talk about. And I would like to introduce the guest, Sandeep Sinha. He's the managing partner of Loomis Partners. So Sandeep, welcome. Welcome to the show. And for all who are listening in, I'd just like you to just introduce yourself in the chat box. And so we know you are where you are joining from. And we are going to sort of talk to Sandeep and find out what got him excited about this entire thing. So before we get to the 10 million jobs, I'm just curious about this name Loomis Partners. There's a bit of a feedback there. There's a background noise. Yeah. Okay, that's stopped now. So Sandeep, tell me this name Loomis Partners. What does Loomis really mean? So Abhiji, thank you so much, first of all, for taking time for this session. Always a pleasure to talk to you. So Loomis stands for the Greek word for the source of light, luminosity. And the idea that when we started almost about 15 years back, Abhiji, then we were talking amongst ourselves to say, what is it that's something that we all look forward to in our life? Whether it is from a real life standpoint, philosophical standpoint or whatever it is, and the light kind of came through very strong. And we just use that word as a source to say Loomis. And some of us got together, so we are the partners in crime putting this whole thing together and that's what brings together Loomis Partners. Very nice. Thank you. Thank you so much. When I was looking through your website, I kind of see three different, your thesis on investment. When you sort of look at that, I kind of see three verticals, if you will. One is about healthcare, the other is the supply chain lab, which I found quite fascinating. And then third, of course, is where you and I share a common interest, which is in human resources. So we are going to get started first with, I just want to understand, this healthcare foray has been the most recent one. So tell me a little about what is the vision? What is your thesis? What is the problem you're trying to solve? So Abhijit, if I go back 10-12 years, healthcare is a segment that we started off very early in the life of Loomis. But I think as we progressed over the period of time, we started to figure out that we wanted to go more deeper and we wanted to go more specific. And I think the whole conversation over there was, what is that particular aspect of healthcare that attracts us the most? And we narrow down on the whole segment of senior care. Once again, from various different aspects, but senior care is a segment of very high interest for us at Loomis. And what we do over here is we have two different models of taking care of the seniors. One is their in-home services, where a lot of seniors have spent all their lives building their homes and they don't want to move out of their houses when they get older. So the solution for moving to an external real estate place or some resort or so on is not most appealing. So we have a service model for providing services to seniors in their homes. And in some unique cases when seniors are suffering from dementia, Alzheimer's and they need assisted living, we have solutions for those as well. And actually seniors, it's a huge segment in India that we started off with almost about 110-120 million seniors across India. And this number is actually supposed to triple Abhijith over the next three years. We are looking at almost about 320-250 million seniors in India, which is going to be the largest senior population across the world. Almost 20% of the world seniors will be living in India. They have affordability, they have solutions, they have services. And we decided that this is one segment we want to really, really cater to. That's brilliant. So let me just try and understand. So you are not really running, let's say what is traditionally called the old age homes, but you are really helping people live in their own homes. Is that right? It's technology-based services solutions, wearable devices where you can monitor the health of the seniors in their homes, equipment in their home to sense a sudden fall, gas leakage, electricity challenges. So the idea is to be able to make the lives of seniors very comfortable. And that's what we want to kind of go after in this whole space. So when you decide to sort of invest in this particular space, do you see a lot of startups looking to solve this problem? Or is it, what's the profile of the people who are looking to solve the problem? Because in many of the towns and situations, is the scenario different as you are demographic? Say towns and cities or villages, are you going to solve it first in the metros and then move elsewhere? What's your vision for this? So conventionally, if you see, there are two kinds of solutions which have broadly existed in this space. There is one which is a real estate solution where people have built townships and really great places for seniors to live. But these are typically not as much in metro, a few kilometers out and so on and on, which is more of a real estate solution for seniors across the board. The second one is like a resource provider. You need somebody to support a senior in the home, whether it's the healthcare worker, whether it's a trained nurse or so on and on, so you provide those kind of resources. And those are the two primary models that we had seen all across. But what we realized was that to be able to scale these services, it has to have a combination on one side of a significant degree of empathy. And on the second side has to have technology for scale up. And that's one philosophy across the board in Lumis that we follow. Technology is a very critical backbone for all the services that we provide. So the thinking was, can we put together a solution which brings the best of an empathy driven services and a technology driven scale to kind of, you know, bin together the whole picture. And that's the reason we went after. In terms of approach, we started with Derry and CR as a first segment and we'll be rolling out to 10 other cities by the end of this year. But I think as we enter the following, you know, 2022, we believe, you know, the fundamental strong technology backbone and the service models that we would have perfected this year would allow us to scale to tier two, tier three cities as well. Fabulous. You know, which is in some sense, if I were to just sort of summarize the first part, you know, that Sandeep at Lumis Partners, so what we spoke about is you have three different interest areas. One is of course, you know, health related where you are talking about helping senior citizens because the world is going to see a lot more of the people who are in the aging population and they are going to be living as many of these occasions before. What you are also sort of saying is that, you know, in the absence of the joint family system, you know, coming and not being there anymore, a lot of people need help in their years, you know. So you're sort of providing that and the way you want to solve it is through, let us say, your technology back solution. Is that a good summary? That's exactly right and you know, I think on one side what's happening is, you know, families are getting nuclear like to refer, longevity is an asset, but it can also be a challenge, right? So if you see the number of people who are above the age of 60, right, in the seniors category, that is growing at seven extra regular population in India. People who are of the age of 80, thanks to all the medical advances and the longevity factors and so on and on, that population is growing at 14 times the regular population of India. Wow. Now look at a demographic where we have the population growing at 14x or 7x regular. Thankfully, a lot of them having affordability to get good services but not necessarily having the right solutions. And the problem spanning all across the country. So coming from the headset of investments, you know, you look at a market size, you look at affordability, you look at the headroom available, you look at a competitive landscape. So, you know, almost it was getting to be a point of being a no-brainer for us to say it works. And you know, one of the factors that, you know, we have very consciously followed in Lumis right from day one is that while we are first committed in terms of the returns to our investors, there is an underlying philosophy of making sure that the problems that we pick are the problems which have some level of purpose associated with it. So having talked about all the macros and the numbers and so on and on, I think one of the key themes that, you know, we certainly feel strongly about that there is a purpose associated with this one. And, you know, which is, in some sense, I'm going to sort of weave this particular theme around because the two other pieces that I also want to talk to you about are linked to this first thesis about healthcare. In my mind, you know, it's a very interesting problem to solve at one level. You have, you know, people who are at the younger cohorts, you know, India being the youngest country at the same level. And then you are also sort of looking at rapidly aging population, which is coming up in the country. How do you address their needs? And because of the fact that it's a very young population at one time, you know, so there are other people who are under the age, many of them are going to be actually a lot more mobile because the opportunities in the rest of the world, that's one of my thesis, which is that you will see a lot, lot more people from India having global careers and many countries in the world are grey. So for the grey population, you provide the skill through the younger people, but what it means is that their parents, their family members and loved ones, many of the elderly population need to be helped. And that's the other segment where you are sort of working. So, you know, I'm going to sort of try and move to the next piece. So in healthcare, is there something as a next step? Are you going to be looking at something else to supplement this particular? So in some sense, Savajit, the three verticals that we just talked about, whether we talked about senior care on one side, human capital on the other side or the work capital on the other side and supply chain, I think these three also intersect in certain shape or form. So our whole conversation in supply chain side is that it almost contributes about 14-15% of the GDP of India. We are talking about something like $300 billion worth of total value generated by this segment. There are about 9 million SMEs across the country who need solutions. And the challenge across the board in supply chain is that the digital side is fundamentally not established, still very, very broken. And for a country like India where the physical infrastructure is not strong, you need the other leg of digital to be able to kind of step in and take some part of the burden that the physical leg should have had. And that's where I think there is a huge opportunity. And what we run, Abhijeet is like a nationwide fellowship program which is in collaboration with MIT in the US. And we invite about 700, 800 companies every year. And from that we select about 9 to 10 companies. And these are the companies which are the market leaders with respect to the disruptions they are making in the world of supply chain. And those are the companies that we then go ahead and invest. Which basically gives us a very quick entry into the world of disruption on the supply chain side. And these are very kind of companies, Abhijeet. If you see, there is a company we are looking at which has an olfactory IoT which basically can smell. If you remember when we were growing up, our parents will pick up a fruit and they will smell it to see whether that fruit is ripe or not. Yes. Now imagine today that world where on a supply chain there is an IoT device which is basically constantly smelling every single fruit making sure that any fruit that doesn't smell fresh gets taken out of the whole supply chain. So that's solving something like a food kind of a problem. Sure. And one of the other companies I was reading about is this company called Appeal which is taking all these rotten fruits and turning the sort of a coating created out of by mashing those rotten fruits and putting it on as a protective layer against the other fruits and being able to transport them which then extends the life of the fruits and vegetables in the farm produced dramatically. So I think that's a powerful kind of a method. So when you say supply chain for people like me, help me understand what is your definition of supply chain and where do you start and where do you sort of end up and what is the lab seeking to solve? What was the thought behind that? See, the lab is basically seeking to bring forth some of the most disruptive companies in the entire segment of supply chain. So some of these guys are in reverse logistics. Some of them are in arch planning. One of the companies that we have recently got on board is a company which uses blockchain technology to kind of authenticate and validate that the COVID vaccine which is being provided is not spurious in nature. So the authentication kind of makes sense. There are other ones which basically will also tell you that this particular fruit that you're eating is coming from this city, this location, this farm and these are the kind of the attributes. So the ability to kind of do the tracing, the ability to move things efficiently, the ability to do quality control. I think a lot of those factors will make a difference in the lives of people and it will also remove the bottleneck. We believe that almost 2% of GDP can be enhanced if we remove the supply chain bottlenecks which are out there. And that's the purpose of this entire portfolio. So I'm just really fascinated by the kind of technological solutions that are coming up in the supply chain. And I agree that supply chain healthcare, I mean the three you know, verticals if you will are probably some of the most promising areas where to invest and so certainly couldn't disagree with you. I'm going to really look at when you think of the supply chain do the problem that you try to solve change over a span of time which means let's say five years down the line, are you going to be moving at a certain space in the supply chain to solve those problems or you sort of don't say that doesn't really impact the supply chain challenges. No, not as much of a change. Is it, do we have more challenges in the supply chain because India has poor infrastructure historically you know in terms of roads or many of the other things is that a challenge for you? Absolutely Abhijeet. So I think if we had better infrastructure, if we had better roads better transportation things like that this would have been far more efficient. But I think the belief Abhijeet is actually you know again going back a few years taking an example that you know there were very few houses that had telephone in India right you know only privileged few who had it and somebody said that you know what we're going to go to a point we're going to increase and improve the infrastructure so everyone will have that line line phone in their homes but I think we completely jumped that phase and we reached a phase where forget about you know the family having a phone in their homes almost every individual is now walking around moving with a cell phone. I think the same kind of you know shift we expect from a supply chain side where I think we will jump a few of the intermediary steps and the technology enablement of the supply chain will hopefully more than compensate for some of the challenges that we have on the physical front. Now a lot of those will not fully go away but I think the it can be significantly mitigated to be able to bring down you know the challenges we have on the physical infrastructure side. And you know I think the telephone is a great example of how India has leapfrogged you know skipped one generation so typically they talk about the three screens that economies move from television to desktops and then to the mobile. India has pretty much skipped that. Right and in a lot of areas right I mean like we are the believers in India and the future of India. So I think the you know the whole segment around the human capital that you and I have caught up on a few times. I think it's the demographic dividend that we have the potential that we have the innate capabilities that we have that positions are strongly. So some of the other big huge bottlenecks we can hopefully move past those by you know some of the other solutions which are available. So when you when you set up the supply chain lab what was the problem you were trying to solve? You know you did a tie up with MIT and that's you know they're absolutely doing some cutting edge work but what's the problem you were trying to solve? How did you visualize that whole supply chain lab model? I think it was coming from two or three different sides of it. So one was the process side of it. Now on process again we took inspiration from something that we've been doing for the last 10 years. We run something called dilubus watch. Running it for the last 13 years. In 13 years we have picked about 32 companies as a bodies and these 32 companies 18 of those companies have become a market leader in their space and each of this company can repeat was in the first three years of its incorporation and the combined market capitalization of just these portfolio companies is close to about 16 billion dollars which basically started the hell out of us to say if you run a rigorous discipline process of selection then there is some method to madness and you can hopefully pick up certain opportunities which are disproportionate to what you see normally and it was that thought we took from the world of the time we were born and said we understand supply chain and supply chain is a segment which is a very highly domain depth kind of the thing but can we marry the process that we follow over there into the domain centric world of supply chain and bring the two together and I think that's what we did. Lovely. I'm going to switch to the third leg which is predominantly the thing that a lot of people here are waiting to listen to you. This is about the 10 million jobs help me understand and this I'm going to be taking a fairly critical stance on it and so you were one of the first people to start investing in HR tech if I were to just very loosely I would use the term work technology today more than HR technology but what was and that was a while back help me recall the year when you first invested in HR tech I think it goes back almost like 9 years so 2011, 2012 is when we started but some of the groundwork started even before that so it was the whole combination of education people, jobs and things like that and you know I mean we've got some decent success over there but you know a lot of time when I get asked how did we pick that and I usually turn around and say that it was naivety because we didn't really understand that this space was so difficult and there was a joke which was running at least I think about a year or two back that how do you make some money in the world of education and human side and the answer was you start with a large sum of money and then you turn it into a small sum of money that's what they say about the airlines how do you become a millionaire running an airline you start by being a billionaire who runs an airline so you sort of... so some of those thesis elements were looking back a bit too simplistic and a bit too naive the thinking was that you know education is an evergreen segment in India everybody spends on education so everybody needs a job and there are so many people so they need jobs so I think it started off almost as simplistically as that and then I think when we were deeper we realized that a lot of things which work at a small structure level when you try and bring a scale to it the commercial models disrupt very significantly so you know to just take a case of like a school most people assume that if you set up a decent school then it will make money now the moment you start taking a unit of an education side like a school, a college or a university and then you turn it on and say multiply and make 50 of these it doesn't scale like that there are challenges of quality of delivery consistency, the human touch and so on and those are the ones which were starting to bite us very early in our journey when we started this whole thing I think the whole shift happened when initially we were thinking that the human supply chain side you start with the K-12 education then you do the college then you do assessments and then you get into the world of jobs and then you get into the world of career progression and so on so we were looking at everything from the lens of education translating to a lot of these things which wasn't working for a while and then we stopped and we turned around and said if the destination is towards career if the destination is towards work if the destination is towards burning livelihood and so on then how would we look at the whole equation rather than from left to right just look at it from right to left and I think that's where we kind of said let's start by understanding what the corporate jobs are what are the skills that's needed for those corporate jobs how do you train people to get those jobs and how do you provide an education infrastructure to work with them this is where I think the journey started with people strong to kind of join the dutch together and assessment company Vbox then we did an education firm called Talentedge there was a women's enablement employment and kind of a work from home kind of models across Shiro's and the most recent one which is now an economy company called Abig but this is a whole portfolio and each portfolio addresses different side of the human character but thankfully each of these companies has grown to be the number one and number two in their particular sub segments within the whole human side human potential or a work capital side so is it fair to say that you talked about the supply chain labs in some sense is it fair to say that what you are doing is also the equivalent in the talent supply chain I don't need to address that exactly so I think the whole idea was what is the journey of an individual and if you can the journey from beginning to end and then you can work backwards in some situations in life you have an advantage to look back and say if I have to do it all over again then how would we do it and that's where we started to look at everything even education from the lens of work and say how does that change the journey of an individual and can we in some shape of manner add value to that journey Super so we are sort of halfway through our conversation time I'm going to focus entirely on this 10 million jobs process and I'm also going to invite all our viewers and listeners that you know wherever you are just if you can just put your questions out there in brief you try and get as many questions across to Sandeep as we possibly can but in the interim I have a couple of quick questions that when you say 10 million jobs how did you come up with that number and what kind of jobs are these all which require higher education you know graduate does it blue collar job white collar 10 million jobs in India sounds like a very impressive thing we need to create almost 12 million every year so you're kind of saying in some sense almost one year's worth of job creation you will create that you're not 10 million is that a good way you come from a from a top line perspective and you know I was trying to bring in two or three different dimensions to that so one was some of the work that we have done together as a part of the whole work and job and education portfolio the other one was that I've had the privilege of being a part of the national skills committees to see a lot of these policy discussions fairly close to see how this is kind of shipping up together but I think more important than that in our mind I think the word jobs was perhaps less relevant the good job the aspect was work and the ability to earn employment you know if you look at the distinction just to help me so that both of us have the same job and work how do you distinguish so I think the fundamental way to look at it is if you look at the macro level by 2030 India we need to have at least about 90 million job opportunities right and all these 90 million job opportunities about 60 million are going to be the new entrants and 30 million would be people who would be shifting from either farm or other kind of jobs to this but in a sense we need 90 million people to be absorbed in doing different kinds of work to actually make our economy tip you know the GDP role that we talk about 8, 8.5% and so on and on all of that is only going to be possible if we are able to generate meaningful livelihood for this 90 million people who are going to be making the shift now the challenge is that if you don't do that then this demographic dividend can very quickly translate from being a dividend to being a liability right and that is the challenge that we are all aware of now the concept of job in a conventional world is now fundamentally changing you know our parents did the jobs in a very different manner going from morning till evening almost most of them sticking to one or two jobs all their lives and now at our age we shifted that model a little bit but I think the millenials are breaking the hell out of that model I mean if you talk to them and they say 3 years in a job, oh my god what's wrong with you so the concept of job is shifting the concept of work with this whole kind of again the joke used to be what's the latest gig now that gig has become such a respectable world that there is a whole world of gig economy around that so you meet people you know who will do a morning job as a Uber driver when then in evening go home and do something else and in the night probably do something else there are professionals who will be doing digital media, social content they will be working for 5 companies 4 companies together and that's the shift where I think the notion of jobs will probably get destroyed in a matter of the next 4-5 months you know in countries like US already about 35% of the work has gone away from permanent you know full time employment by 2026, 50% of the people will be either in contingent part time gig on those kind of models and that's bound to happen all across the world I mean I've seen that happen right now right here so we've got a couple of questions from our viewers Pradeepal wants to know in which domains do you sort of anticipate and domains and what kind of organizations will you see this 10 million jobs is there a dashboard around this you know just some kind of perspective and if somebody were to be starting their career where would you advise them to focus Aruna has a related question also which I'm going to put right there and she wants to know that what kind of basic skills are going to be required so I will paraphrase it in a different way I'm going to say that you know is there a way in which these skills are going to shift I mean the kind of skills that are invoked today are they going to remain the same or do you anticipate that shifting which is what you would have kept in mind when you created the 10 million job game plan so I think you know there are two or three different ways to possibly cut the challenge like this I think one is the view of what are the verticals which are going to see the jobs right so if you see the fundamental nature of manufacturing is changing you know the whole electronic marketing manufacturing and things like that are coming in so that's going to be a big job area creation you know the world of construction is going to see a huge number of job ships the whole concept of green economy the way it is coming in you know that's going to see a very significant number of new jobs being created but then there is a there is a whole element of you know the horizontal of technology not just about you know being like an expert in technology but actually being technology aware you know just in the last few years machine learning, artificial intelligence adaptive learning, smart objects natural language processing the whole nine yards right there is a lots of these buzzwords that are flying around which honestly more give a shiver down the spine and give comfort but the reality is that you know we need to be able to learn and adapt to some of these technologies and that's when we are happy very quickly in a very defined period of time there is a whole side of the softer skills right the ability to adopt adapt and learn and shift the headset and how do you do that in a meaningful manner the whole concept of education and learning the way it was before saying that okay first 20-22 years of your life you learn and then you work and you deliver on the education now you know the half-life of learning has gone dramatically different in five years what you learn is almost becoming obsolete so be able to be on top of your game making sure you know how you are learning some of these new skills and the good part is that the environment gives you a luxury to be able to pick something that you are passionate about again a few years back it was all about medical or engineering and those kind of things today my son comes up to me say I am going to pursue a combination of psychology and computer science again no clue what the hell that means but I am sure there is a it's a lot of people to be creative it's a lot of the world of design to flourish a design is a huge space there is a world of digital marketing and being able to reach out in a new shape and form so I think these are the new age careers which are going to be in huge demand I totally agree and you know Sandeep Kuld agree more with you you said that there is going to be you know couple of things that struck out with me one is people learn earn and retire kind of a model is gone you are probably going to see a lot of you know come back and forth on this that people have to you know each earn phase is going to be followed by a learn phrase you know without which your next gig is not going to happen and potentially you are going to look at multiple skills so that's my thesis I've talked about it multiple times that you will see people running five different skills for five different employers running at five different price points so I think that's going to be one of the ways so I talk about it on my blog called career3.o so that's something some other questions here Hariyaran has asked this question you know what are some of the skill you know the mindset changes that are required for people with three or four part time jobs and there's a follow up question which says that are you looking at Vijay Sharma wants to know that are these jobs within India or do they reflect some possibilities of jobs also outside of India how do you define this 10 million if somebody gets a skill and goes outside and works in another country would you count that as the 10 million yeah so I think in our mind there are three or four variants to this so the first variant is the job which is being delivered globally in this new world of gig economy and you know working from a distance and so on and on the fact that you're working for a company which is 30 kilometers down the line 300 kilometers down the line or 300,000 kilometers away honestly none of these makes any difference lot of global jobs are going to be delivered from India the kind of difference that has been seen in the world of technology where India has become a center of excellence then the whole side of business process side where India has been delivering some of the best world class business services to the rest of the world we think India is going to be delivering for multiple roles and multiple jobs the whole last conversation I was having with somebody it was about education in India the education services are so strong there is no reason why India cannot be a provider for education services on a global front so as long as we are on top of the skill set that we are delivering I think the difference or the barrier between a domestic role and international role is kind of go ahead and kind of disappear and we'll have more and more global opportunities being available to people in India without necessarily having a need to be able to travel outside which also means compensation level changes which also means the renumeration of a different order altogether which also means you are going to have far more better compensated jobs roles and responsibilities because you are catering to a very different kind of a customer audience than what you have done in past which is partly what another viewer Swarney Mbethia has asked this question which you kind of answered in some sense what's your perspective on the freelancer job model and like what you talked about you would say agree and say that you know freelancing is going to become far more prominent in center stage and when we think about jobs or career shifts many a times we do that based on where the scenario is today but that may not be where it will be 5 years 10 years down the line so totally agree with you that that would be tell me a little about the kind of skills that will be important in this 10 million job creation assuming education doesn't change a lot what will be the opportunities what should people be focusing on you talked about design you talked about you know some of the things in education as possible we also talked about we talked about digital marketing digital marketing we talked about the whole social media I think what's happening Abhijeet is the conventional world of a business the way we saw has fundamentally shifting and it's not that it's on a different road I think we were heading down this road anyway I think covid has just accelerated that whole process and demolished some of the old constructs much sooner and much faster so now when we look at this whole theme of future of work what we don't realize is that the future of work has already arrived and it's already in the present tense and there is no more future of work who would have thought that one intervention will make us all work from home and study from home and learn from home and everything else so I think first of all that world has is not two years three years away I think that world has arrived we are in the future which means the present of the work is already very different the way the organizations go and build themselves is fundamentally changed you know technology has brought in the ability to be able to build exponential enterprises you know we only thought initially that you know tech will take away the blue collar jobs you know what that's our thing technology stole the blue collar jobs technology also took away the wall street jobs and replaced it by algorithms it also took away you know a digital an insurance guy going from door to door to sell a particular insurance but then it has also opened so many more opportunities right the world today is creating far more value than what it had done in the past you know it has broken down the barriers as much as possible you know this morning I was looking at numbers and I'll just share you know a couple of numbers with you you know Kodak which was you know one of the companies that we grew up knowing at every function and at every brother celebration you know it was it had about 38 billion dollars in valuation but it had 140 thousand people right which basically means that you know almost every employee generated about 270 thousand dollars worth of that then came the world of youtube where the company got valued at 1.65 billion dollars with about 65 employees which basically translated to almost about 25 million dollars per employee you know a number which is unheard of then came the world of instagram which was a billion dollars with 14 employees you know talking about 77 million per employee and finally the bank broke with something like whatsapp with 55 employees and 19 billion dollars in valuation you are talking about a value generated of almost 350 million dollars per employee right and I think the the only person who can break the conventional mindset is we ourselves you know rather than thinking that you know it is technology which is overtaking us the machine learning the AI the robotics you know they are going to steal our job I think the reality is human mind is so much more capable than that you know the challenge is not the tech is moving fast you know I mean tech is moving fast is given right I mean there are like 12 million coders all across the world who are sitting and programming 24 by 7 even the 12 year olds who are changing you know a different kind of a world by programming but I think you know we are still as humans we are still a Lamborghini who is going at 20 kilometers an hour I think we have the potential to be able to take it up to a very different notch altogether and I think it's a mindset of expansion it's a mindset of continued learning innovation and a lot of these things you know and these words sound cliched Abhijeet you know unfortunately but the reality is you know we are all you know being blessed with the potential of a very different order altogether we just need to be able to figure out that thing right and it's going to be scary it's going to be very shocking you know I still remember the first time you know I was visiting a Google office and the guy took me from one campus to the other and he sat behind in a car which was without a driver and even though I knew everything about a driver less car it scared the shit out of me to sit in a car on a highway with nobody driving it right so there are maybe hundreds of those instances which are going to scare us off it's not going to be comfortable but I think the requirement or the need to be able to break out of the comfort zone and learn and I think the learning has to be of a very different order altogether thankfully it gives us an opportunity to learn something of our own choice of our own passion I think that's the privilege we have but I think we don't have a choice of not doing we don't have a choice of not being running because you know it's no longer that you know we can stand at a place you know we are all on a treadmill a very different kind of an economy altogether but we all have a choice of something which is closer to our own heart and you know kind of build something out like that I completely agree when you look at some of the kind of career options that today are possible and you refer to quite a few of them you know the possibilities in new media you know the opportunity to digital marketing through you know think about how many things are happening in audio itself you know from podcasts to drop in audio and clubhouse and all that look at what's happening in video you know the user generated content you know getting branded content social media influences just media I think one of the opportunities for a country like India is going to be you know in media that's my belief that user generated content from to create that I mean it's just a phenomenal opportunity that I think you know we need to be aware of the second thing that I would sort of really look at is I think if I were to create a sort of a pattern I would say algorithms and computers are going to be better at doing scale for something which is you know a pattern which is repeating anything which is a repeatable pattern you know so the computer is going to be better at doing that you know so finding a needle in a haystack is probably an algorithm kind of a problem but if you look at painting a picture that appeals to the human mind that's still going to be a lot of it is going to be human you know so the ability to craft a narrative which in popular parlance we say storytelling it's actually the ability to piece together different points of view to create a narrative I mean look at it like this the woman's girl has been you know a recurring pattern in hundreds of you know stories yet there is a novelty that's possible that's something that the human mind gets to really create so totally agree with you and okay there are a couple more questions you know so here is a question what you know is being asked for is what is going to be you know the way to sort of create a learning mindset you know something which is do we depend on the organizations to build it or are we forced to build it or do we build it ourselves I think there is no choice but to build it yourself and many reasons for that I think the first is today the opportunities are so tremendous that you can be sitting in your room and you can pick a career of your own choice and you can deliver to the world so that luxury is there but that luxury is only available if you have built that skill in the area that you want to a level of excellence which can serve at the right time the challenge with the push strategy you know which you know was a word I kind of got my eyes on is it's fundamentally destructive the reason we are hearing of so much of burnout the inner wellness challenges you know the peace missing at work is because of that reason I was shocked a bit with some of the factors that I heard recently and I was talking to one of the top psychologists in Gurgaon and he was saying that their support center receives about 350 suicide calls a day in Gurgaon and you talked about professionals right you know we had all thought that with a decent level of education and learning with a decent level of employment and work our lives are going to be more fulfilled and I think the reason that fulfillment is missing is because we are letting somebody else chart the course of our work which is you know it's not going to work and it's not working you know while pandemic taught us a lot more things it also taught us about the global aspect of human mortality how things can change in a flash of a step how each one of us we always think about something that will happen to somebody else we never realize that we are all part of the same world game and people are just weighing back their priorities once again in that sense actually millionaires are far more brilliant Abhijeet than some of us who are from the previous side of the person completely so so millionaires basically they are able to balance more effectively they are able to identify their priorities a little bit more clearly they are able to articulate it better they value the whole concept of a work life balance far better than some of us have done in the past so I think the mindset is right and that mindset is I think requires an individual to take charge of their own life which means charge of your education your learning your work environment and then a confidence to be able to chart out your own career the way you want it to be you know I think there is also this whole this whole piece about you know when you are looking at I think it's a lot more than climbing the runs and it's a lot more than making more money than before but also in that whole process where you draw the balance between what's happening to you and what's happening to the outside world so I think when people pitch their career based on what the others are doing and this having gone to a B school myself I totally relate to that I am from X batch I am from the 2010 batch of management trainees this person has already become jelly manager I am still not there that means my life is gone for a toss it's not true it's so not true and also I think the definition of finding fulfillment is a somehow it's not talked about as much and it's certainly not a conscious part of the process right I think a lot of the millennials in Gen Z they are not afraid to walk out of jobs which are soul sucking and they are okay to sort of put that and try something on their own far more comfortable taking risks on their jobs so there's a question from Zubair Ahmed who wants to know what is your view of the online education industry you are talking about 10 million jobs when you look at the talent supply chain does it mean that we need to start thinking about education in a similar way which prepares for those 10 million jobs what would be your thesis see online education has become such an integral part of our life now that I think we are even past the point of actually even questioning how relevant it is going to be or not I think the question is not yes or no the question is how and how best we do today 700 million people in India have access to internet which means they have access to online content which means they have access to online learning a lot of people start their day by learning whether they are learning how to cook a dish or how to go out and drive or how to be great in their job so it has become an integral part the conventional world of education is bound to collapse it's already going through that whole thing education over the last decade has grown three times faster than how average salaries have grown but if you look back in the last 50 years there is actually no other world or no other ecosystem which is providing the service almost in the same manner that it has been doing for 30, 50, 70, 100 years the classroom today is not very different in most places to a classroom that existed 20 years back, 50 years back or 100 years back and I am not talking about schools which don't have resources I am talking about one of the most privileged schools and colleges and best of the universities across the world so the need for someone to be able to have a degree or a certification to be able to get credentialed is going to get reduced in a recent survey about 70% of the hiring manager said skills and experience is going to be far more critical for you to get a job than necessarily producing a certificate you know I was talking about IBM executives and they were saying you know we are going to do away with this whole requirement of this specialization, that specialization degree as long as an individual is able to qualify an exam and by the way sitting in any part of the world we are happy to take that guy on board so I think we are at a world where the whole credentialing part the certification part, the degree part it's not going to go away, it's going to be there but I think it's going to start reducing into the component of the value it can add online education has its challenges it removes the interpersonal level, it removes the walk of the teacher relationship and so on and on so my personal belief it's going to be a blended system over a period of time where about 20 to 30% would be the human interface side and about 75% is all going to be digital in nature and it's going to be on demand, you should be able to reach out to whichever content you want and once again you want to be a creative designer in this coming year, fabulous you want to use the design skill to be a social media marketer the next year you should be able to do that you want to write creatively very well and articulate that in a fabulous manner and do journals the following years you can do that and online learning will allow you to do that at every step of the way without interrupting what you do on your day to day life I completely agree I mean for you know over the last I would say 2 years the number of people who I have been coaching and working with who are looking at fairly radical career transitions so that's one of the work as you know that I do very very radical career transition people are fundamentally even in the midst of all the uncertainty of the people who are comfortable doing you know a well-paying job to take up something which fills their passion and a lot of it is in the creative arts the number of people I work with who want to know how to write better who want to learn how to speak in a more creative fashion for multiple kinds of things as ways to create a different kind of career opportunity for themselves so you know I think there are there's a question here you know a number of people have lost their jobs in hotels hospitality and many of the other services sectors even in educational institutions people have lost job so would you sort of say that the 10 million jobs will that you are talking about will bridge this gap back and bring it back to the pre-COVID levels or you don't see that happening what's your take it's going to far exceed the pre-COVID level so you know forget about my view in terms of saying it has reduced I think it's going to change dramatically I think the models are going to change so you know when we talk about hospitality jobs I think the whole concept I will just give you a couple of parallels you know Airbnb probably adds more rooms in a month than the hotel industry does in a year and I think that's the mind shift that we need if somebody is fabulous in service industry hospitality industry the ability to use that skill set intelligence some amount of entrepreneurial drive some amount of capital which is now available in the market to be able to translate it into a different kind of a learning model is far higher than ever before we have recently been a part of a student accommodation platform where the largest number of student homes are not coming in the purpose to build student accommodation hostels of the past they are being provided by individuals who are managing a small guest house of 25 rooms but providing exceptional safety security are taught through hospitality and things like that so if you ask me would the same number of hotel jobs will come back I probably don't think so but if you ask me in terms of hospitality jobs and people picking up other alternative I think it's going to be 10x of that I agree I think jobs will come back but they will look different from what you thought they are which is where Abhijeet our whole ecosystem is focused we are not just pushing jobs in a big hotel we are trying to push an ecosystem which will create 200,000 student accommodation opportunities across the country which will translate into 400,000 employment that's a true point of gig economy having the company that we work with part of our portfolio company they have 750,000 people across 10,000 pin codes all across the country so the nature of work the nature of job will change the core skill sets will need to be evolved but the result is going to be far more promising than what we have had in the past so you talked about the pin code jobs tell me a little more because that was also the thesis that I had I wrote about that in my newsletter that we will see a lot of pin code jobs which fundamentally means that people will the job will be allocated from somebody else which means your employer will be invisible in some sense you will not see that the job will come to you and then you deliver the job within your pin code what happens today let's say food delivery you deliver a job within a 5, 10, 20 kilometer radius you know the area you are going to do the job there do you think it's a reasonable connection I again think these are some of the things which are bound to happen so if you take the whole world of taking people to jobs I think we are done with the time where we are going to create 500 people offshore development center in Gurgaon get people to travel from 3 different cities close by and come to that I think we are now talking about taking work to people which is the reverse we are talking about delivering from where these individuals are we are shifting from mass production to production by masses and I think these are those trends which are fundamentally going to disrupt the conventional 5,000 seater building which Apigeej you and I have seen many years back I don't think we are going to see that and that's going to be by the way far more efficient because the cost structures it will require a different ecosystem you need different security solutions you need a different employee welfare solutions you need a different insurance policies to be able to take care of this a different kind of benefit architecture different kind of learning we are not only talking about 10 million livelihood jobs workspaces we are also talking about an enabling ecosystem which will take care of that if you are no longer working if you are no longer working for a company then who provides you the health insurance right you need insurance service providers who will be able to ensure you even if you are not out of the company you need a different kind of healthcare solution to be able to take care of that you need financial solutions which are going to be different just about investing in companies which will create that opportunity it is about investing in the core companies as well as ecosystem companies which will enable and make this system work fabulous I just found that we have just crossed the R that was allocated as always when you talk about something which is fascinating and this is a subject close to both our hearts the opportunity for those 10 million jobs it is always nice to have a hopeful kind of an end to the conversation I do think that there is going to be tremendous amount of opportunities that will be created it is just that they will look different they will need different set of skills and they will need to be delivered in a different way so in my book I talk about work worker workplace all 3 of them will change so thank you so very much for illuminating us living up to the name of Loomis illuminating us all together with the 3 sectors where you are working so appreciate your coming over and taking time to answer all our questions there are some unanswered questions we will try and see if we can get Sadeep to address them in real time after this but thank you very much once again and listeners and viewers thank you we will see you next week with yet another edition just if I can find somebody with whom I can talk about some skills that Sadeep mentioned so let's see if we can bring someone in that space to you so all the very best see you next week always a pleasure to talk to you thank you everybody who joined the session today happy to answer any questions even post the session but love talking to you Abhijeet as always you guys have a great evening ahead thank you so much bye bye