 I am Peter Hood, and I am the Chairman of the Select Board. And I'm Liz Scharf, and I'm a Select Board member. I'm George Moranaker. I'm on the Budget Committee and Conservation Commission. Elias Gardner, I'm also on the Budget Committee. Sarah Merriman, I'm the Town Clerk and the Select Board Assistant. Phil Hay, the Select Board. Steve Martin, the Select Board member. Doreen DeCraw, Treasurer. Thank you all. I'm not sure whether you're a real guest or not, but we welcome you to our meeting and your camera. Agenda. And do we have any amendments to the agenda? Thank you. A quick discussion about an RB technology issue and Marika's ACS computer. OK. We're not going to talk about that. I think we just have to add it over this list. Yeah, we can do it after. You called the meeting to order, right, Peter? Yes, I did. One minute after. Thank you. OK, budget workshops. Reviewing 2019-20 budget requests, considering wage increases for town employees, action possible. So I've updated this again. And I've got things that there's, like what I printed out, there should be a question mark next to ones that I just wasn't sure if you want to need to plug something. And so in the general government, there was select board courses. There was an expenditure last year. Should we plug something in for this year, or just leave it at zero? Because we haven't budgeted for it, but yet, we didn't. Select board courses. I've been trying to go to at least one thing every year. If there's something worth it. So what are they typically? A couple hundred dollars? Alas, even, yellow. 125, 75, depending on that. Yeah, depending on who's sponsoring it. So let's plug a couple hundred dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Done. Only tax. They just had a meeting last Thursday, according to Sarah. So we do not have an updated one. I plugged in the 17,900 number just as a number. Well, no. So that one's in there. So that's total government. Under administration, there's a question mark next to, there shouldn't be one there. OK, so these are going to all change. That one's OK. You can remove the question mark from that OK. Which one? Which one? The health insurance administration has been taken care of. And that is going to be down 7.3? Yep. Yep. Wow. We have less people on it. Oh, OK. OK. OK. Let's go that way. OK. You're going to hurt them. It was a good thought. So the cost of health insurance is going to happen. Not happening. So I didn't have any other things I was questioning here. However, you will see a lot of things that went down. Workers' Comp did drop. So payroll taxes, I think, that dropped because the hourly rate for the delinquent tax collector changed and also. So other than that, the big one was computer maintenance, which had a huge thing last year. But we plugged in the $8,000 number based on our annual contract. So the only other question is maybe we're going to hear later from Sarah. But the only question is, is it time to replace any of our hardware? Well, they told us when they came in that our hardware was good, but we did need RAM. And that's the issue that they're encountering with moritus. Right. So Germany, you probably can speak about it, because you've never been in this situation. They did an update last night on the technologies. And then this morning, Marika had problems with her computer and was on with them for about an hour and a half. They said that one of the biggest issues is the amount of RAM. When they do these updates, it takes a lot of that to do the update. So they suggested for like $89 or something, you can get, was it four or five breaks of RAM? Yeah, RAM's real. Because she only has four gigs. I'd say max it out, whatever. Yeah, I mean, the only question is, isn't her computer one of the older computers? No. Well, if ACS came in and did a whole replacement, that was her computer over there. And so it's been two and a half years. ACS is our land record, the company we contract to do archive our land records. And they brought in new computers? They did. They came in and did a whole thing. And, yeah, I didn't know that. They were here for about two or three days. So that's technically their computer, right? It's technically their computer. So maybe we should talk to them about it. They put in, we thought it was much recent, but it was, I guess, two and a half years ago. They updated everything. Well, I guess for $89 is cheap. If it was $1,000, I'd say we should buy a new machine. But for $89. Because we do more than ACS on that computer. I mean, we do, that's the issue that she does. Nemerick is on that computer. So it's not just archiving land records. Got it. Got it. And what about the RAM and the other machines? Everything else seems to be working. My computer is working fine. I think Patty has complained about the fact that her. I was going to say that one, I think, could use more RAM, too. Or something. It seems like it's, you know, she seems to have trouble with the check scan around. I don't know if that's going to resolve her. Yeah, I don't think the check scan thing is RAM-issued. But I believe that's one RV technology's also mentioned. Could use some more RAM. Well, we should ask them. It'll take them 15 minutes to run around and determine what the RAM is in those machines. I bet they have it. So I think they did that inventory when we first looked for stuff. So they should know. We need to have a meeting with Robin. He and I have been playing telephone time. But that's one of the things we can bring up. But if we're going to do that, let's spend a few hundred dollars. OK. So that number going to change. I would just recommend, I mean, there's bound to be, who knows, there's bound to be something we need. This is based on our contract on the SVE. So there's no overages in there. And it doesn't include any hardware. Right. We need a new board or a new RAM. So I would put another $1,000 in there. That's exactly what I was thinking. 9-1-1-2. A RAM sheet these days. I'd say you can just put on CPUs or a sheet or something. I don't think it's cheap. Something's cheap, except for a couple of times. Yeah, really? Right? Yeah. So keep going? All right. OK. Next one that I think I thought that was. I'll just want you to stay by the phone. Public works. Public works. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Those guys. Those guys. OK. So Steve and I just had a little bit of discussion here. So the ones that have uniform safety equipment and DOT compliance. For stratific later. Oh, I took it off because we talked about it. OK. Your asterisk. With next to shop powers, right? Yeah, you know the store water discharge. Oh, yeah. So we put that in. That's a new item. Yeah, that's a new item. That's compliments of the state of Vermont. Yeah. Then we went down to shop powers. And then shop powers. They've never been charged to your side before. So we've increased that number from. There are no new taxes, remember? Yeah. That one's going up to $1,382. I'm sorry to run out of time. Shop supply. Undergrudge maintenance. Yeah. First item. Oh, shop supplies? Yeah, $1,382. Instead of $750. Instead of the $750. Correct. And with my next one, my uniform. Yeah, so it is. So we've increased that number to $7,400. Let's carry that department. The changes. That's the changes. It's the changes. OK. Wrightsville Beach, too. We don't know what those are yet. So I just took last year's number and put that in for a placeholder. Yeah. You know what? It should be the same, because they, I think when the last time Wrightsville came in, they said that they were going to use a certain percentage per, it's per person, right? Per member. Yeah. And they weren't going to ask for another budget increase in X number of years. So I think it's supposed to remain the same. So we'll leave that. I'll take my question there. Go after that. Yeah, OK. And the other one is, I don't know if you guys can, I mean zoning, I used the questions I was going to ask of Mitch. But let's see. There's nothing we had, expenses for legal and advertising I know the legal was high because of one particular instance this past year, but he's budgeted nothing. And I'm just wondering if there should be something. Which is for $1,000, isn't it? For those that go very far these days. I know you've got the advertising is minimal, so. I believe that it's zero. OK. We'll make the question last. And that's it folks. OK. And so I have as placeholders in here a two for wages. They're in at a 2%. And the other thing I wanted to mention was there's a big decrease on highway because I believe one person is coming off on that. Coming off the health insurance? Yes. Yeah. OK. So what is the percentage? The final number right now, I believe, is $1,155,687. What's the percentage? It's like 0.75, so down. Down? Down. So that's 4.6, yeah. Yeah. So what happened? So what happened? Well, we had a lot of change. And that's my concern. I mean, the biggest thing was we had two health insurance that made a difference. The other thing I want to mention on that was our increase was only 2.5% this year, which was very surprising in our rates. And the health insurance. Right, health insurance. And I only budgeted a 2.6% for the following year and maybe a safety cost is because it was so low this year. So I really should bump that up. Good job. I'm hopefully approved to buy it. Thank you. Yeah. You guys, you have to vote on the wages this year. Every year we vote on this. Oh, no, no. We can still move on to this. I know, I know. County tax, do we? County tax, we won't know. We're not going to know on that. It's a fire department for dispatch, do we know? Yes, that's a hard one. That is a hard one. So where's the emergency management? Where was his budget? Yes, that was a huge increase. But where is it? Like it's in the top. Under public safety, the last item. Safety too? One third down the page. Oh, OK, yes. So. All right. But we're not anticipating having to rehire. Like it's not like this is going to replace someone in the town for the health insurance. No, no, there was one of the situations was a family plan went down to two persons. And the other situation is my understanding is they've gone to the spouse's plan. We're supposed to be getting a confirmation on that. So please, everybody, check my numbers. Oh, wait, but hold on. In my one thing that I do want to talk about again, especially because it isn't such a big increase, is that I did have on my calendar from like a year ago, I put things on to the member to talk about. But at some point we talked about it was thinking about starting to build the building fund. We don't have anything in here about the building fund. Well, you have to go to the voters for that. But we can't put anything in as like a. We can put it as a separate warning article. But we can't do any kind of line item the way we do like the painting fund and the. We have to create a fund. You have to create a fund. You have to create a fund. Right. Those were all created, and then you just funded it a year. Right. But those went to a vote to the voters for those funds. At some point, yeah, just to establish the fund. And then I believe once it's established, you can budget money for it on an annual basis. Is that right, Sarah? That's my understanding, yes. But the voters first have to exist. But they have to exist, right. But I think that's a good idea. Well, related to that is just the whole issue of, you know, are we going to, what are we doing about our deferred maintenance program at the town garage here and at my favorite building, the old fire hall? Are we going to paint the backside of the roof, or are we going to paint one more side of that building? So wait, how much is in that right now? Not very much. No, we've been budgeting like enough to do a size a year. Right. Yeah. Well, I don't think we should back up from that. How to continue to maintain, even if we have a longer range, plan to replace this building and we want to sell it and the old fire station too. We want to be as good a repair as we can to get as much money out of them. Yeah, well, do you think the best use of this parcel is to keep these buildings? Undetermined. Yeah. Undetermined. I mean, that's part of a longer conversation about, if we're going to, are we going to, you know, and that really is beyond the scope of what we're going to do tonight. But, you know, there's a scheme to, you know, move the town clerk's office upstairs in this building, which would be probably the most reasonable solution. In terms of cost, there's discussion of building a new building over by the town garage or by the school. If that's truly the center of town, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, that would obviously be a much bigger undertaking. Right. But we are, as our town clerk will be quick to tell us, just about at the max with our vault here. So we're facing some kind of a, I mean, it isn't tomorrow and it isn't next week. But, you know, next year, a couple of years, I mean, we need to really have a long-term plan. And, you know, the question is, and, you know, I've been trying to think about what I would think it would be, but if you sold this piece of property in both buildings, depending on who you sold it to, there might just be enough money to build a new town clerk's office, much smaller building. You don't need the hall. Right. Right, because we use the school. You know, you don't need a basement, slab on, whatever. I mean, if you could sell this for $325,000. So it didn't space that. That's what I think you'd probably get for a lot. It is. You have to send both buildings? For both. Yeah. And the land. And the land. And it's prior real estate. There's a well on this property? Yeah. There are two. So somebody could buy this and build a residence? Yes, they could. They certainly could. But, you know, the old fire hall is one issue. You know, somebody might buy this property and tear that down. But to buy this with the intent of tearing down this building to me would be, I mean, there are a lot of things you could use this building for. Got a vault. And it's got a vault. And an elevator. Yeah, not an elevator, maybe. Yeah. A part time elevator. A part time. Some days. A part time elevator. And two handicapped accessible, oh, one handicapped accessible bathroom. So there you go. And you got a, is it real or an appraiser giving you a galley or something? No. We haven't gotten there yet. It just feels like that might be like $375. Oh, I don't think so. So is it something, though, that we want to put on our, for the voters? Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, for the town meeting day. Oh, I think it's premature at this point in time. I think establishing a building fund makes sense. That's what I mean. But is that what we have to put in? Not proposing a solution. Not proposing any. No, no, no. They're just going to get a fund. But doesn't that have to go on the ballot? Doesn't that have to go on the ballot? Yeah. It goes on the warning. Warning, OK. Yeah. So it's a, yeah. But you're going to vote on that next month. Oh, OK. So it's not something we have to do at a town meeting. No, it's what you guys are going to vote on. We've heard it on the warning. And then it's just going to be voted on at 10 million. OK, all right, all right. Got it. You know, as long as we're talking about buildings, I mean, I just have real concerns about the long-term viability of our town garage. I mean, that building is a sorry building. Over by Remy? Yeah. I mean, if we're building buildings and doing things, maybe you build a new town garage and attach the town clerks on this right there. Yeah, we're doing both at once. Yeah. Because I think, and I don't know how you feel about that, Steve, but I mean, we could pour money into that building like crazy and still have a Remy building. So if the cement is reasonably good to wipe it clean and build a new, maybe larger, maybe not larger structure on top of there, by the time you really get that building energy efficient, I bet the cost would be almost the same. Oh, probably. I mean, there's not a lot of value in that. What's the traffic like here for you, people coming in and out of the building? What do you mean, coming in and out of the building? To see you, or to see the information like lawyers in and out of the building. In and out of this, not counting people who rent space, but to see you specifically or something about town fair. You know, it's all, it's very, it's very cyclical. So we can have, we can be flooded from the spring through the summer during building season and so that you get a lot. So we'd be constant. Probably now it's very dry because it's the end of the year and it's Christmas and stuff like that. We'll start picking it up in February. Stock markets tanking. Test markets tanking. Not to cut you off, but let's focus on the budget. But I think, I think what we're hearing is that we want to establish a building fund. We can't budget anything for that building fund because it hasn't been established. So we're back to, I mean, so the big, the big variables in here now for me are, we got the wages of 2% depending on who you listen to. Yes, ma'am? Can I comment on the wages, Chair? Let's just, let me summarize and you can comment on the wages. Wages are never enough, that's my comment. But anyway, you know, and the building maintenance, I think our vehicles and equipment are more or less taken care of. I think it could always be an unpleasant surprise, but I think we're in good shape there. And the other items are not peanuts, they add up to real money. But I don't think there's a lot to talk about. I don't know if anybody disagrees. So on wages, and it's interesting because I've been in four of these wage discussions in the last month. And some people are saying, claiming whatever, that the federal rate, federal inflation rate, look at her smiling, is 2.8. That's correct. Yeah. Oh, I just googled it for the Northeast. And it actually dropped this month, so it's going to finish the year at 1.9. What's the social security co-legacy? 2.8. 2.8. Which is historically a pretty conservative number. And there was nothing last year, I think. Right. I would propose a 3%. That's what I got at my poor nonprofit. Well, that's where I was thinking, too. When I looked at the 1.9, and the reason for that is to say, if the 1.9 or 2 is, in fact, inflation, that's keeping you level. We worked to get our wages up a little bit, especially with the road crew and other positions. And I'd hate to see us step back. And I think by going with the 2, if we just stay in that around, we're actually going to lose some ground. So I would certainly be in favor of 3. What would 3.9 make us look like during the day? I have to check and see if it calculated in all the taxes. Oh, right. Because you have to do all the other stuff. Yeah, so that's still, that's why I'm very concerned, because it's still showing us being under-budgeted. So I'd have to go back and check all these calculations. What do you guys think about 3%? I mean, I think I agree with what Phil's saying. I mean, we at least do the 2% to keep us level. We're trying to build that up. I'd be in favor of the 3%. Just to be clear. We're not finalizing the budget tonight, right? If you're not finalizing the budget, all I ask is that we get a wage vote, because Patty flips out, otherwise. She wants a vote on wages. But this is not, so this is like next July. But you know, we always go through this. She always wants an article. Well, we'll have it when it passes. But she doesn't need it for the next vote. For the next payroll. No, I know. She said she always, it seems like we always go back and ratify a certain wage increase. I don't know, Peter. I'm just, you and I have gone through it. Right. Yeah, but that's when we implement the, when it passes, you know, that we'll do it. But this is ridiculous. It seems like when the town voters vote on the budget, and if the budget has a certain increase, that's it. I don't know why you... That was my sense, too. Right, but I'm saying that it's nothing that, until we, the select board passes the budget, she sees nothing she needs, because it doesn't take effect for life. Right. And honestly, I mean, it's just, it's a proposed number until the budget passes. I mean, I can see, you know, some kind of action once we have a loaded budget to say we're going to ratify, or, you know, ratify that. But I'm not gonna be sure that's necessary. So we're not, so you're feeling a little uncomfortable with this, regardless of the calculation here? No, no, I'm just saying that. I'm not sure if it's capturing all the taxes and everything because I went from, it dropped it to a 0.45, still under budget by 0.45. Yeah, that doesn't seem like the right... Which doesn't seem like the right, so I think I have to go back and redo the... Well, because weren't we, at some point, like around three, like when we first started this, or even higher? Oh, we were way higher. And the health insurance is a big thing. The health insurance is huge. That's why I'm wondering, like... That was... Let's just pick out the way, just to get a general idea, and I understand the thing about taxes, but if we said so, there were two... So we bring the public works on 209, 852 for 853. So, yeah, it looks like it did calculate, at least in that one, it did put in the taxes. I also ask, when you're talking about these increases, is the select board getting the same percentage? I mean, I know for years, you guys just took a flat rate, and over the last, I noticed, like, last year it went up the same... Yeah, it went up the same, everybody else. So is that, I mean, I just want to make it... I think what we decided is, that we should get the same increase. Across the board, you know, all week. Yeah, all the time, it kind of stays that way. Our share is P nuts, yes. So I just, Lee, who is a select board member in Orange, they get 1,000 bucks each one of them. Wow. Oh, yeah. I think you guys should. Well, and I think that's why we decided to start taking at least the incremental rate increase. 1,000 bucks at least. 1,000 bucks at least. Sarah, I don't think any of us are in this for the money. No. Every penny counts. Every penny counts, but it isn't like... That extra six hundred is the difference between eating dog food and hot dogs. But if just in round numbers, it's like 230,000 with all the miscellaneous payrolls in there. Yeah. So 1%... No, it's more than that. Why is it more than that? That's 230,000. Because you went 24 up there, then you've got another 54 right here. Oh, what are I missing? Administration. Yes, I did. You're right. So there's another... I knew that something was... General government growth wages should be 24,090 soon. What? Right. Office staff... ...makes less than the clerk's before 15. But it's probably added into here, right? Sounds like it did it. It must be. Yeah. Those are growth wages. I don't know. The only thing I don't know is... You're not talking a ton of money here, but the payroll taxes... ...whether or not those came... So where is that... So that leaves us at... We're like 285... Right. So that still leaves us at 4% minus? 0.46. 0.4. Okay, so... Now I didn't put in a number for any building, like, repairs. So town property maintenance is... There's another one under the temporary... Yeah, the town property maintenance is up in the general government. Right. That's this building. Yeah. A lot of it, too, is these stuff here. We don't have any more debt on those things. Yeah, there was a lot of debt that went away, too. Well, that's a good one. So there was a lot of really good things that make this happen. The debt service went down by less... 43%. Yeah. Just remember, we're about to buy a new grater for the tune of a quarter of a million bucks or... Why could they cost more than that? We get a little trade-in. We're gonna buy a small one. We're gonna be a baby. Yeah, when is that coming up? Next year, isn't it? Next year, the year after. I think it's the year after. We would buy it next year, but we wouldn't incur the debt of the following. Correct. How many years for that? I'm just curious. We kept this one longer because we put a bunch of money into it. Right. We have town property maintenance. What? 330. Yeah, that's just a number for mowing the lawns here. Oh, okay. Building repairs. And then we have 3,500 in for building repairs. That doesn't go very far. We have something in the town garage, right? That's enough fun. I believe, right? Yes, we do have that. So, hold on. None of these guys are gonna be these things that we're losing all this debt service on. None of them we're gonna be replacing with a new piece of equipment. Where are you? What do you say right here? Well, when incurring, if we replace it, we're still not gonna have the debt for it in this budget. Yeah, till the fall, right, okay. I mean, just because eventually it's gonna, you know, if we have this increase of, I mean, a decrease in our budget and then suddenly we have to get all these new trucks. Well, that's the potential that could happen here. You have to double the following year. Right, well, next year, next year we're gonna replace the one ton. You know, there's an interesting question. If we are gonna replace the one ton and our budget is in a minus, do we wanna plug $10,000 in there and make a damn down payment on the truck instead of just putting it all to that? Well, that's what I wonder. I mean, that's one way to even things out a little bit in terms of the... What's our cost at all at a one ton? With all the equipment on it, it's okay. We just paid... 100... 100 or something. Yeah, but the one ton's like 80 or 90 grand, isn't it? With a dumb body and a plow on it. Well, we didn't buy a one ton. We bought a large truck. Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, and we were definitely over 100. Yeah, we were. What's the rate? What's the rate on the debt? Pardon? What's the rate on the debt, though, if you just bought... Take that $10,000. We didn't buy it till... That's the 2000... No, the prospective. The next one you buy, what's the rate of debt? Oh, hey, it was three... What was it, three something? I think so. I think it was three point something. It used to be in the twos, but now it's in the service. Any interest with the year? Well, there's the... There's the old question. I don't think you'd even know. Yeah. I mean, we can always... Where we have... Where we have flexibility is these notes are now all... All the notes we've reviewed are one-year notes, right? Yeah. No, we did... Right, but we can always pay down extra principal. We can always pay it down, but it's... Didn't we go three years? Yeah, I think we bought. One we went five on, and one we renewed, that was a one-year we went to five... Three or five on, for example. But my point is, it doesn't make any difference, my point is that we have the opportunity to pay down debt any time by making extra principal payments. That's the way of levelizing to your point, trying to be consistent in terms of our expenditures rather than... I would be in favor of paying the debt down whatever we could. Right. Now. Tonight? Probably not tonight. But do we want to... Do we want a budget that we're going to... So, originally when we started this process, we talked about a 2% number, just as a number to talk about. The budget. Right. Well, if we have 2.4, whatever it is, to get us up to the... That's a real number. That's real money. But let me ask you this. If paying down the debt doesn't help us for the fact that we're going to have to, for this debt burden that we don't have anymore for next year, when we replace these trucks we're still going to have to take on more debt. So, and still paying that old debt. So even paying off that debt, I'm afraid that if we bring our budget up by, you know, to say 2% because we're paying down existing debt, we're still going to need to take on new debt, and then it's going to go up even higher our budget. Yeah, but right now, so why can't we do the down payment thing that you said? Well, what are we what are we replacing next year? I don't think we're replacing any big things next year. That's the point. Okay, so we're having a couple of years of nothing on this debt, no debt service on these trucks right here. Right. All I was, my point is simply if you're taking this $25,000 that used it on something where you're going to get a greater return than just the low level of interest we pay by prepaying a piece of equipment. But by having a fund, it has to go to the voters, isn't that what we're saying? We don't want to, I'm dead set against getting back into the equipment fund, but that's where we're going to go. If you're looking for a way to mind-standing what you're thinking here that's driving this discussion is that you're looking at the surprise of not having a 3% budget increase and figuring out how can we do something like that. So as a long-term goal we try and avoid taxpayer shock. There are two kinds of taxpayer shock, one's better than the other. The tax is going down is a lot better than the tax is going up. But to try and be consistent in our rate of increase in expenditure has always been a goal and we've been pretty successful at it over the years. So all I'm saying is when we have a year where we have an opportunity now you can always just spend money. There are plenty of things we could spend the money on, but we've already spent the money on those things. I don't know. So would it be a mind item called debt pay down or we could choose which one we wanted to pay down? I don't think that sounds good. I don't think we can prepay anything. You mean like for a new piece of equipment? I don't think we can either. No, we got our hands slapped when we bought a bunch of sand one year and snuck it in under the wire. We don't like that. But we can pay down. I think we should. I also think we should probably allow for a greater increase in health insurance than what I allowed for. Take some of that cushion and put it into that number. Sure. I mean I think 2.6 was No, that was freaky law. Freaky law. What about the discretionary fund? Do you like to keep that at 5,000 like just a handful of money for just various little things or do you? Because otherwise we're really creating a slush fund. I don't like the idea of a slush fund. But I guess what I would say to unless we want to continue the discussion is to have to render, do some creative accounting some money into building repairs and and pay down some debt and bump up the insurance a little bit but make it come out to right around 2%. I mean I don't have 2.1 or 1 going on. 2% are under. Right. We're a little under. Which means you might be able to pay down 20,000 in debt. Probably. Which would be great. Because it's going to help us down the road. Well, because in a way what we're doing is getting ready for that greater purchase. By reducing our debt now. So Steve, on these trucks I'm just looking at all these trucks that no longer have debt service. There's like a bunch of them. Well, it's not really because it's principle. But it looks like there's the 2010 International Western Star. There's the 2015 GMC and there's the 2014 Kamatsu. That's four things. Right? Am I reading this right? These are four trucks that starting in 20, or basically your 2020 budget. Kamatsu is a loader. Well, whatever. But pieces of equipment. So all of these at some point are going to have to be added back into the budget. No. Well, the 2010 dump truck was replaced. That was replaced. It says replaced. Oh, okay. Up above International 2018. Okay. So that one's done. So that one's done. So I don't know what the Western Star or the GMC is. I'm trying to keep those seven years, right? So it's a 2014. That's 21. Okay. I'm just wondering what those are. A Western Star and a GMC and the Kamatsu loader. Those are big trucks. A loader would last one in seven years, wouldn't it? No. A loader lasts a long time. That's what I mean. More than seven years. Oh, yeah. Right. So that doesn't, but I would imagine that GMC thing will get replaced. I mean, I'm just trying to think, like, down the road. GMC thing. Yeah, but seven years, that's two years from now. Okay. The Western Star would be first. Yeah, it's about us. And that's like a dump truck, right? Big dump truck. Yeah, big dump truck. Those are both big. That's 2021. I mean, the big bug of what we have is the greater. Yeah. As long as we keep putting our hand in the sand and running around. Is that going to have to be a vote to the town because of them out or not? The greater? No. Highway. Because you're financing over seven years. And that's been in our ongoing projections for replacement. This is where your property taxes have been going. Thanks for all this expensive stuff. Broads. All right. So add a I like your idea, Peter. I mean, just to say, I mean, I'm not certain we're going to do that, but at least gives us an idea what it looks like, what impact it'll have, you know. Yeah, I agree with that. So as of now, if we did nothing, except for wages, the increase would still be minus about a half percent. Yeah, level funded or something because the taxes aren't in here. I think you're probably looking at levels. That best. So other Any other thoughts, Budget Committee? The approach makes I mean, we're not, again, we're not finalizing in tonight. So you have time to you got time to think about this. This should be finalized. Some soul searching over the holidays. Yeah, right. When you're packing in those extra calories Yeah. Sure I'll be looking at this. When's the next meeting? Over my holiday dinner. That's something the board has to decide. So we haven't decided yet for January. So we should do that while the Budget Committee's here. The date. It has to be the second because the the first one is the 1st is this Tuesday. Right, January 1st is the Tuesday. Where's the calendar? It's up there. What did we move to with you, Phil? What day is it? January 1st and 3rd. Normally we're doing the 1st and the 3rd, so but we can't do the 1st this time. Right. We could do the 3rd in the 5th. Okay. 15th and 29th. Yeah, you got a warning issue. Yeah. Really running it tight. Not many petitions have to be in by the 28th. So I would like to send. You could do it on the 29th. Do you have to be in by the 28th of January? The nominated petitions do. The special articles have to be in on the 17th of January. So anything after the 17th would allow for a for you to create the warning. Okay. Ideally you should probably meet that week afterward. After the 15th, 15th, 15th. If you met the 22nd that would be good. So what are you suggesting, Sarah? I'm saying that it would wait until the special articles are in on the 17th because then, so anytime after the 17th then you can vote on the warning. So the 22nd will have a meeting? You definitely have a meeting on the 22nd. The question is what's the 1st meeting in January? When is your meeting, the 8th? Mine's the 8th. At what time, 6th, 3rd? 6th. I would suggest we have a meeting at 4. People are up for it. Just do that again. I'm pretty sure meeting that. We sure as well don't want to do it on the 1st and we don't want to do it on the 15th either. So we do it on the 8th at 4? Yeah. You're not going to have anything to really go on. Everything's pretty shut down. Does that work for the Budget Committee? So we're not, I can do Final Budget won't be that day. Might be. So the 8th and the 15th do you call it? No. I might get there. We're advisory. Our presence is required for you. Right. We'd like to see your heads nodding in a positive fashion. I'm glad. Guys, on the 22nd at 5 o'clock. And then move to 15th. Okay. And then in February just for the sake of it, we're going back to the 1st and the 1st and the 3rd. Send me an email. January 8th, the warning. Which when that would mean the 5th and the 19th. And then town meeting is right after that, you guys. We're not in March yet. Wow. What? No. There's only four more meetings and then it's town meeting. What's town meeting day? March 5th. Oh, the dare. Anyone going to be in Florida during that time, Steve? Well, look. Let's get through January. Okay. Yes, sir. So have we concluded our budget discussion for tonight? I believe we have. Durinda, you're good. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Are you here for the telephone number? Okay, I just want you to know that John is here for the telephone number. I know. Wow, the budget. So. Yeah, I'm going to go behind. I'm going to go ahead. That's where all this power at. I don't know how much. Oh, right. Do you want to have a budget audit? I would apply those things. You and I are probably going to be in that spot. I know. But I did hear about this. You have time to review it or whatever. Here's my thing, and I've been meaning to talk to you, Durinda, and I didn't have a chance. I really like to understand those audits. And I cannot understand that. It is. I mean, when I think our audit used to be like seven or eight pages. And now it's 40 pages money's coming and going and I mean I can understand the big picture where we are but really understanding that audit so what I plan to do is is meet with the auditor and we also have the auditor come to come to one of our meetings but that tends to drive up the price of the of the future audits and I'm not sure it's worthwhile I don't know it's already to that point it's already like we paid $200 more this year than we did last year right so I think there's a bracket happening there but I would but I would tell you what's what's going on and I I see this with other organizations I'm part of this there's a lot more work to be that paper doesn't doesn't generate itself every one of those pages has to be created and balanced and reconciled and there's a lot more going on because there used to be in terms of doing these extra well we can ask you to come here's the question first of all do you feel like you have a good hand on it or are you feeling sort of the same way I am well I I mean I we supply to all of our books I'm confident in our books so what they do is they basically come and they run all these tests to make sure our receivables are what we said they were our payables were what we said they were so I'm confident in those numbers so it's really you know I think there's a lot of verbiage in there but what I'm trying to say is she found no errors in our in the information we provided so if we're comfortable with our numbers in the books then I think yes she had to create all these documents but it was all based on what we supplied her correct it's you know so and she found no errors and if you're not seeing any corrective actions there was no corrective actions there was that everything's following good accounting practices that's that's what I always like that's what yeah no I agree well I'm why don't we do this then let's go ahead and approve the damn thing accept it I guess I'll accept it is the right word and I'm gonna spend some time here and at it and all I'll deal with her myself I'll go over and see her or ask her questions or whatever if I have any I just it's just mind-boggling to me and I mean it's like that it's like the accountants retirement plan every year they create another report which is part of these part of these audits and they're complicated and if you really want to see something that's complicated try and look at an ad an audit of a publicly owned company like a fortune 500 company you can't you can't by the time you get done you can't tell whether they're making money or losing money anyway I am fine feeling exactly the way you do right now I'm fine accepting the audit and I will I will do my thing to make myself comfortable thank you then I will make a motion that we approve the audit performed by bachelor and associates to accept the other except to accept the second any further discussion all in favor I anybody opposed okay we've accepted our audit now we need to let her know that and then she finalizes it right okay okay okay and can we quickly do the appointing of Theo Kennedy the just called he says if you've got any questions you know he's at home he's going to he he hopes to come to tomorrow's meeting at the planning Commission so their motion so any further discussion all in favor hi any opposed okay congratulations Theo are there still any more openings can you have as many people as you want on no no so there's no more openings until someone doesn't run again right there are plenty of openings for March yeah the same from now okay four out of the five oh okay well open the slots open ones what is a one-year see this so feel or run again yes he plans to run for the rest the remainder of the seat the two which is okay so moving right along Kellogg covered libraries request to on that's interesting to on the 2019 meeting warning sorry to be put on a special article on the oh two on the head I'm just I'm just needling a little that's all right I know but author so despite the weird syntax I asked that to speak put on your agenda yeah briefly he feels that it takes quite a bit of staff time to do this voters have routinely approved this and surrounding towns that aren't part of the Kellogg public life but this is the closest thing to a government so he wanted to see how you so this would be like Australian ballot question no still be a special article we would we the select board would put it on as a special article without them having to yeah similar to what you do for conservation yes ma'am the libraries that are in stowe are the public libraries stowe's public the public libraries town tax yeah better example are the the towns it within the district that the sponsoring or supporting towns of the Kellogg covered so it's the five CSU towns yeah the question I think on the tables is is the putting it on the ballot with or without the warning with it without the petition so we are not just to be clear this important difference unlike the city of Montpelier is not part of our budget they're not asking for it to be part of our budget no it's just that the request would be would be a special article now here we go we've had this discussion over the years a few times various versions of the same discussion and our concern has always been if we do it for the library are we are we are we opening opening the floodgates and I've thought about that a lot and you know I don't really think we are I mean we're not establishing a precedent saying we're gonna do it for everybody I will say I've been going to town meetings in this town I think for 40 years and the library there's been discussion at times that the library has never not gotten its request so what are we really accomplishing by asking them to do this petition we're making them go through an exercise having had a lot of experience getting signatures on petitions I don't I think the the difficulty of it is somewhat overrated it's not that hard to do as I said to you John I think that you know four nights four nights after school at the Rummy school you've got your second and maybe one eighth grade or sixth grade basketball game you've got your you've got your signatures but you know is there is their value and meaning in going through that exercise and the bottom line is I would tell you there isn't much I mean I spend I spend those times doing CV HHH and and Senator Vermont economic development with my with my wife we tag team each other and you know once in a while somebody asks a meaningful question about you know and and it's usually not home health it's usually CVEDC just because people still don't after all these years really know what CVEDC is but people certainly know what the cali cali governed library is and they certainly have the opportunity at town meeting to amend the request reject the request you know it's not like we're taking we're taking that away from me so I don't know how everybody else feels but they may be one thing to add that that was the you know a year where the cali cupboard is asking for an increase you know I mean I'm in agreement with you whatever the whatever the ask is this year it's the same it's still gets voted on so yeah we're gonna do this if it's a cost if it's a cost of doing business increase I would say we do it if all of a sudden they say we're gonna double the size of the library and we're gonna have a you know 25 million dollar bond issue or some thing that would be I mean you know the way I think we would do that is we would say you know we agree we'll do it but we're not guaranteeing we're always gonna do it it's not forever so let's let's try and see and see how it goes I agree it's still gonna be a special article except instead of by petition it's gonna say by the select and I don't even know if anybody even notices at the town meeting and and I do agree that it is a it is a quasi I mean it's a little different situation but it is a quasi public function it's not like heaven forbid the waterbury senior center all right so should we make a motion yeah all right so I move that the select board place the telecovered libraries funding request is a special article on the warning as opposed to having it done by petition second do you guys have a number that we can put into this do you know what the same number yeah 29 so same number we need a written oh just like a number yeah definitely yeah I think in his letter my last year was $30,000 just for just for record keeping if you would have him send us a letter you can say you know thank you for agreeing we don't need a petition this is our request for next year it should be a letter to the select board yes and so are you making the motion yes I made the motion yeah did you put any timeline on it because Peter was not maybe doing once or no this year this year or let's just can we just make the motion without any kind of like we can always we send it yeah okay moved in second at all in favor I any opposed okay great thank you I'm Tom and email to me okay okay make sure they make sure they use all that extra time to do good work okay thanks John yeah yeah I will Thursday I will George okay okay thanks yep thank you okay what's going on next proven December four select board minutes updates I newly created Washington Central you unified school district okay well I think I sent you guys I emailed you the information we received which was this letter from this helpful letter that was just open to mail on Thursday you don't have a school district anymore right so there's that and and the warning originally for the January 9th meeting that is going to create a temporary board treasurer clerk that type of thing well that's no longer because they didn't because and to be fair to the to bill and to everybody else the legislature has not been clear on a lot of the procedural implementation of creating a district such as things like well you're holding a town you're beholding a special school meeting who runs that special school meeting are there going to be any board of civil authority members there what happens if there's a paper ballot who counts them are there any elections officials what's the warning procedure none of this has been considered so I'm talking to will sending at the who's in charge of elections at the Secretary of State's office he said I thought that it was as bad as it could get with the voluntarily joined districts this is far worse and we don't know the answers but in short Bill Kimball and the town clerks are going to be here I offered to make cookies on Thursday okay so they're meeting here also because I don't have assistant so I refuse to go to a superintendent's office to talk about stuff like this so we were going we're going to meet here on Thursday and I'll have some more information but the bottom line is that there probably will be to the best of our knowledge more ballots in March than what we are currently what we are accustomed to so there'll be a town ballot that an Australian ballot there will be a new supervisory new whatever is Washington's Union and I think I don't know if it's going to have a budget attached to that or not I don't know how it possibly could there's going to be a Rumney ballot but the positions will be just for one year I don't know if there's going to be a budget on that there's going to be a U32 ballot but again the positions will only be for one year but I don't know if there's going to be a budget to that so at some point there's going to have to be a budget for one year because it's really only those July isn't it or something? Well it's you think but actually the board might have to stick around and to accept end of fiscal year financials so they might and and that is also up in the air no one knows if those positions will be until July or until December so if they have to accept for example accept an audit or something like that of the Rumney school they're gonna have to have a board so what basically to just tie up loose ends after July first so those of the unknowns that is where we are the school district is gone the lawsuit proceeds the well we just plow forward do the children still get educated I do believe the children what about the money I don't know about the mama money they don't know well can Gerinda sign checks no I don't think so once once I think what happens is once the we have that January 14th meeting the a treasurer is gonna be elected and I think cyanara to all that I am technically the clerk of the school district no more no more right but what I'm saying is that letter says that school district is done right now as of that day I think this was a poorly written yeah I don't think that's the reality and I think that when we talk about the fact that they don't understand the procedural as aspects this is one of those one of those examples so I tried to help by putting like the warning on that on the webpage and stuff like that but you know if we're gonna have a special meeting usually you have to post them by places around town it's the concepts there the process has not been caught so as far as we know yes I don't mean this facetiously at all as far as we know we're just gonna get orders she's gonna pay bells until they tell her not to yeah I'm still doing it I think when you all I'm saying is when you read that letter so like we're done yeah and I don't read the warning I don't understand so that's one of the questions I'm gonna we're gonna have with Bill like is Dorenda gonna be signing she gonna be saying checks until July 1st or is she gonna sign we're able to check ends deciding and January 14th and who swears in these people I mean it's I don't think it would go till July 1st yeah and as you said if the board is going to carry over it may in fact go a little longer because there may be some financial pieces to wrap up right over the summer while one is phasing out well just like accepting an audit is the perfect example so the run the run the board is gonna they're they're gonna have to be audited fiscal year ends June 30th so at some point they're gonna have to accept an audit report and there's not gonna be anybody else to accept that audit report except with the vestiges of the runway board well yeah and technically you know any property any funds left or any debts are left are transferred to that new district so you would want to have that audit I thought they would back no it goes the other way it's the it's the middle-sex school district and you know it is this it belongs to the school district the school district no longer exists the school district is a forming it's all very confusing our only role will be to collect their taxes our portion of them I'm glad they really thoroughly thought this through it it's like you know vital records they don't want that is they were there's all these changes to vital records but the legislature never thought how did you put these changes in the vital records so everything has been delayed you know it's the same they don't do the procedural steps they should have when it all came down to the last minute they should have said we know what this is going to be effective a year from now so we have the time to get organized we have the time to get all these people elected we have the time to create a unified budget we have the time to do a proper operating agreement instead of some well that's the interesting splash together because I think they have to have an articles of agreement approved there's a quick timeline they have to have like three meetings between that and town meeting and articles of agreement have to be approved by 23rd January it affects us but it isn't us thank God is right well I just thought you should know this so oh no okay and again this is one of those things I had kind of like watched for a while to sit you know the last thing you want to do is be mandated to do this because you lose all the control in the transition if you make the decision I mean it's like okay we can see where this is coming let's agree to do it before we get told to do it we can at least then set the terms and the process and have it be smooth didn't work out that way at all no it's still not working out that way it's like a consulting opportunity to me yeah there we go there you go okay okay more news to follow on that considering watching electric cough permit to move a seventy-two hundred volt electric distribution line closer to Calver Hill just give you some you Liz knows the reason for this three days of power outages it's a mess back there behind Stephen's house so they're trying you weren't you were looking Colorado scheme yeah well I was gathering water flushing toilets with gallons of water where's your generator what happens well that's why you have a generator I haven't gotten it yet it's being shipped so anyway that's the point behind it I've seen I've seen the Brookfield services trucks all over middle sex I suspect there's a sudden end of the year boom so I approve it the permit so just do you know where is there a diagram just I mean we always we think it's across the road from Sarah's house the field right fields next to the chaplain it's good to begin near the residents of their house and then there's a tax there's the sketch and and Elias who has a house on Calver Hill just reviewed it he was concerned he's okay so this is where are they saying these this right here right yeah so and move it closer yeah because they're very down deep in the field like below and it's just they have to like take their machines like Patterson's here and he said it once they were one part of that line it would just break just break break break break break break in everywhere so then they'll just access it right from the road exactly there's a mess you heard that orange blob right there for that longest time on the Weck map oh and then did you did you see that the other day Eric texted me because there's seven people out in the state and it's us for one of them it was literally like three houses in my neighborhood that were out again well all I got so yes I was out playing with my grandchildren and skiing and doing all that stuff but every time the power went off I would get an alert for my alarm so you know they were it was turning it on and off then and then so I have one of these computerized boiler gizmos very high-tech very nice but what it does is it doesn't like it when you turn the power off and on fast oh that happens all day Sunday if you turn it right if you turn it off and the generator kicks on and then sometime later the generator kicks off it does fine so we get home and it's broken and our pockets off was 40 degrees in the house and we got home good thing we got home when we did you need a house sitter so do you guys well I'll make them over I made the motion but can I just have something so the reason that we're looking at this because it's in our right-of-way is that what they're asking does Sarah even have a say in this because of the right-of-way the town right away 50 feet from the center of the town normally we just prove that if it's in the town right away yeah yeah yeah so I move the record so were there one or two of them there they're too always to the same thing to move a 7200 electric distribution line okay any further discussion all in favor it doesn't guarantee that we all do or he does it is the best I've had mine for a long time and it is like I used to have to pull it out of the garage generator yeah well that's okay but it only ran for a couple hours and there was the business of being out there with a flashlight in your teeth pouring gas lean into the hot generator never never seemed like a good idea to me yeah that's what mine is it's not as good it doesn't it doesn't go as long right one propane versus gas oh I thought it how big your tank well no I don't mean that I mean that you don't get as much as many hours out of the generator uses more gallons it's like 30% more gallons of propane than just because they're less right less that's not up to your big big guy yes okay is there like some because we were we were I'm sure about that because we have a giant tank a 500 gallon tank yeah what you say to your gas company which I've had mixed results with don't ever in the wintertime let my tank get below half because my generator has to run it's gonna use four or five gallons well four or five gallons an hour so you know if it's on for three days that's a lot of propane so do we want to talk about correspondence sure I'm a propane yeah check out my generator people I'm sorry all right so I think this all right so you guys have a copy of that letter yeah does that satisfy you regarding I guess so I mean yeah yeah everybody's everybody's unhappy so it must be a good resolution right isn't that the definition of a good compromise you know or at least at least he wasn't screaming at us in the letter so is there any more junk though that that goes beyond the no there's no more junk it's just the unregistered vehicles with the issue yeah right okay neighbors are not well yeah okay I mean I would say that in general even if there were a situation because I thought about this is that for a read his letter if there were a situation where you know it was difficult he did have to move it and it was different wasn't able to register and they were really junky cars that you would make a consideration for giving them until the thought to remove the stuff well if it was if it was a dead winner and there was 10 feet of snow on the ground yes I'm saying but he he received the initial complaint letter or way back before everything was frozen and Sarah told them how to get the guy who deals with bald ox to come over they could have had those people back there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah we should send we should send him a lot yeah that's what I know okay um rb tech we just talked about it was that the pictures oh that's what we that's what we talked about yeah any other so you'll notify them I'll notify them that we want more ram for that computer and do an assessment of any other well ask them if they have an assessment done because I think that's right I think they did all of our computers at the time okay anything else to my knowledge or information oh oh oh Merry Christmas