 Live from the Computer History Museum in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering OpenStack Silicon Valley 2016. Brought to you by Morantis. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Lisa Martin. Welcome back, everyone. We are live here in Silicon Valley. This is Silicon Angle, Media's, The Cube's, our flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Lisa Martin, our next guest is Hirshan Diner, Executive Vice President, Strategic Alliances at Gigaspaces. Last year, we had the founder on, he's in Israel. He's watching, say hello. Probably sleeping, time zone. Welcome to theCUBE. Thank you. So I remember that conversation we had last year. It actually got me really excited. I'm getting a geek out on orchestration because it really is the hardest problem that people are working on right now, the smartest tech geeks. But before that, there's always a management problem. So you got to manage before you can orchestrate and automate, right? Managing multiple clouds has become one of the main, kind of, I will say public secrets in the tech community. Clouds are great, but when you start dealing with different clouds, there's some nuances. So can you share your thoughts on that particular problem area? Yeah, I think it's very good. First of all, thank you for inviting us, inviting me. So it's first of all, it's management. It's also orchestration. There is many, many tools these days which are talking about orchestration. It's a bit confusing in terms of the audience and the customers. So I'm from Geekerspaces, the company behind Cloudify. Cloudify is an open source product. And what we are trying to pitch basically since day one of OpenStack, and I've been here in Austin and the rest of the conferences since day one is that it's not about yet another cloud. It's not just about the infrastructure. It's not just about which cloud we should choose, but it's the entire stack. We are set on top of the application layer, and we are looking for ways to basically do, allow the users to have some cloud portability, which means you have various clouds, various technologies like containers. In the end of the day, somebody needs to manage it. Somebody needs to orchestrate it. And nobody knows what it should be the next docker, the next Kubernetes in six months from now. So you need to have the future proof ready for. So cloud mobility and that's important. I want to dig into that. Portability. But you also said mobility? Portability. Portability, okay, portability. And you guys sit where in the stack? We are basically on top of the infrastructure. We are agnostic to whatever infrastructure. Below the container layer or above? We can integrate, we can take the Kubernetes and deploy it and manage it on any cloud. But I think the challenge is right now you have many, many silos. So you have the Azure and obviously the Amazon, you have the vSphere with their tools, you have the Kubernetes and docker with their tools of management and orchestration, and OpenStack as well. So at the end, if OpenStack wants to go to the next level and be mature even more, you just need to have something which break all these silos, something that connect all this mass. A common tool set. Yeah, because right now it's really a chaos. If I'm a customer and we see customers every day, they are very confused because they want to have OpenStack, but the reality they also have Kubernetes and native clouds. And I think the last survey that I saw, almost 74% of the enterprises use at least two cloud vendors and at least six clouds. So try to imagine if you're a customer, you need to manage all of that, you need to orchestrate a lot of that. So that's your challenge. In terms of challenges, one of the themes today has been about collaboration. You kind of mentioned that not just from the number of cloud services that enterprises are using, but also collaboration in the OpenStack community. They talked about that as well as a sign of the maturation. What is your recommendation for enterprises that are driven by the need to standardize so that they can not only operationalize what they're doing, but also deliver a customer-centric focus? What's your advice for those customers that need it to standardize? So it's a very good question and comment. We are dealing with OpenSource. Gigaspace for the last 16 years was closed for many years and Cloudify been opened and OpenSource to Apache for the last four years. And we took it even thirdly. We put it as an open governance. So we took part of the product, we put it on Apache and Linux Foundation, and the idea is to collaborate and allow the big guys to put code inside to extend it. And I think you heard in OpenStack Austin and today Jonathan mentioned OpenStack Plus without the collaboration with the big guys, the intels and even HP and the rest of the guys that would contribute code, but also maintain it. It will be very hard to the guys to break the silos. So we basically integrate with guys from VMware, like VRealize and the guys from HP and so on. So our advice, it's not just about just going by OpenSource and it's not going to be free. No free lunch, but the thing is that if it's OpenSource, you'll be able to extend it, you'll be able to collaborate and get advice from other even competitors. And we collaborate with our competitors every day. Are you happy with the decision to OpenSource four years ago? Yeah, definitely. And we are continuing doing it and we're continuing pushing it into the OpenSource. Right now there are too many OpenSource products and solutions. It's again, from a customer perspective, it confuses. You need to do some ordering of what you... So what will not confuse the customer? What do you see has to happen for the customer to see a clear path to some reality to a solution? Some template, some use cases, some real kind of blueprints that you can actually take, successful use case which works and just replicate it. So one of the things that we did is contributed some of Cloudify, some portion of Cloudify into OpenO organization in the telco NFE space. And basically, the idea is to push the code there and allow the guys to modify and improve it. But it's not yet another standard. It's about reference implementation, about use case that large telcos like China Mobile and Huawei and others, which create real meaningful stuff with OpenO and basically contribute it back. So if we can create something meaningful and then replicate it and allow other users to use it, that's the way to go. Not yet another standard, because we have enough standards. And that was one of the things actually that Jonathan Bryce did talk about today was being able to replicate the successes that companies are having in this open community. One of the things that they launched at OpenStack Summit in April was their certification program and they're now delivering more content to enable customers to break through some of those challenges with implementation. Is GigaSpace working and collaborating in the OpenStack community to also help your consumers from an implementation perspective to get around some of those things that are confusing to be successful? Absolutely, and now in one hand we are contributing and doing OpenStack trainings and OpenStack, a lot of deliverables. We actually, I don't know if you're aware that we are running OpenStack Israel for the last couple of years. So the entire event with over 1,000 people, we are running it and the idea is again to collaborate, bring the people, talk to each other and get some certification. But again, it's not just about the stamp, it's about contributing back communities which brings value back, otherwise it's again the silo thing. Get a lot of traction on Twitter about your comment about portability. What is cloud portability and what's the problem? That's a good question. When you ask yourself what is cloud, hybrid cloud, it's not just about okay, there is public and hybrid. It's not just about we have several private clouds. It's about something similar to, you're using your mobile app and you want to install it on iOS or Android, mobile. Okay, so you want to be able to port it between one operating system to the other, easily. So people need to start thinking about the consumer and separate between the consumer and between the owner, cloud owner or application owner, application consumer. And once we start building it properly in that sense, we'll be able to port it from one cloud to the other. And then you can get to the use cases like cloud bursting, like cloud migration, like things which most of the vendors are talking about. But in order to get there, you need to take and enable the application to be cloud portable. So the problem is what? What's the core problem? I think people are more focused on API obstruction. So if you have several clouds, you're trying to use some common denominator and kind of use some API obstruction. But then you lose a lot of the features which every cloud has today or in the future. Because you have very subset of APIs that you can use. What we are trying to do is focus more on templating and blueprinting, which means the application owner will need to use specifically the features which every cloud provides. But then it will be able to replicate it without changing the code, without agnostic the infrastructure. I have a question for you. You talked about a term that like cloud can mean different things to different people, right? Future-proof. As a marketer, I understand that that can mean many different things. But what does future-proof mean to get spaces? How are you enabling companies to achieve that? Is it achievable? It is. So every customer today, and we're talking about two cloud vendors at least which enterprises have today. So they're using OpenStack, that's fine. They have at least one or two others. And they want to have a checkbox. They want to make sure that they are not locked with yet another vendor for the next couple of years. And this is something that, again, you can achieve only if you prepare yourself with the application, with cloud portability. It's not just, it's not a marketing thing. You really need to have future-proof. You don't, you see every three or six months you see things are changing in terms of, in terms of cloud, in terms of native clouds and cloud in general. Nobody knew what is Docker or Kubernetes two years ago. And suddenly it's- It's everywhere. Everywhere. So what will happen in 12 months from now? So you need to, that's part of the future-proofing. You need to make sure that you're ready for the future. Within a heterogeneous environment and being able to enable that to be sustainable? You need to get to there. We're not there yet. And especially because there is really a lot of chaos right now. I'm not trying to be very realistic. The thing is that there are a lot of noise. You've got to bake it out. It has to be proven. You can't just throw new code in there. Right, right. And you've got orchestration. It has to work. Yeah, it has to work. It has to work. Especially dealing with mission critical systems. Yeah. So do some R&D, play with some code. But when you actually want to have future-proofing, it's got to be bulletproof. It's got to be protected and certified, if you will. Yeah, I can maybe touch without too many details, but we are focusing on two areas. One is enterprise and the other one is telecom NFV. In the telecom NFV, the cycle is very long. The reason it's long, these carriers like the NTA-T and Sprint and Deutsche Telecom. Complex, old infrastructure, and they're slow moving. And they're trying to save money at the end of the day. So for them, A lot of decision points to go up for a big decision. Many decisions they are dealing with us. They know that we as consumers have very kind of high-end expectations. And they will not release anything into the production without making bulletproof. Herschan, thank you for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. And say hello to your cohort, your founder. Tell him we miss him. He's in Israel. I'll give you the final word. What's next for Gigaspaces? What's going on for you guys this year? What are you going to do next? Oh, we have an H2 to complete. We are very busy. Both business units, we just released today, the XAP, the memory computing product into the Apache as an open source. Love that. That's a good move. We covered on SiliconANGLE today. So we wrote that up in Memories Hot. Oh, yeah. Real time. Yeah. And so after 15 years, we are there in the open source. And also in terms of Cloudify, we are very demanding customers. We love to hear their feedback and we are trying to be agile and change as much as possible. How's the tech scene in Israel these days? Booming, isn't it? As always, very similar to the Silicon Valley. It is Silicon Valley. It's like Silicon Valley. And you can see a lot of acquisitions there. We have a lot of... But Jeff Frick and I are talking. We want to bring theCUBE to Israel. So... You're more than welcome. OpenStack Tel Aviv will happen. We will be there. 2017, you're more than welcome. Hirshan, thanks so much for sharing your insight. Congratulations on your big memory announcement and orchestration. Big problem, big problem that everyone wants to solve. You guys are doing it in open source. Congratulations. It was all best. Thank you so much. I'm John Furrier with Lisa Mart. We'll be right back with more live coverage here in Silicon Valley after this short break. You're watching theCUBE.