 Talk we gon' have fun, we be on fire, we be the big shit, big shit, big shit, it's a unique hustle nigga, big shit. Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique hustle, it's your boy E-CEO, and I'm here with the lovely official, Mr. Mako, what's going on? Nothing, nothing, walk on. Man, you know, just kind of, the day is, you know, at hand, it's time to get to it, man. Same, man. So it's Shannon Davis-Willis. Willis. Willis. Yes. And Christina Richardson. Willis. Willis. Okay, I got it. We fit the rock out well. We're up in the boss talk 101, where the boss is talking, man. So what's going on with y'all? Nothing much, we just here to talk about mental health. Mental health, you know, what gives you the audacity? The mental audacity. How do you come up with this scenario that you're able to talk about it like, cause we've dealt with it. I think everybody deal with it in some, you know, some form of fashion. But we like to get to know the person. I know Ms. Willis, that's what I'm going to call you. And yeah, Ms. Richardson. Yeah, make it sound real official. So just tell us a little bit about yourself, Ms. Willis. Have you always wanted to be in this field as a child growing up? Oh, definitely not. Cause we take it all the way back. As a child, what did you want to be? As a child, I always wanted to be an optometrist. Okay. So I went to Xavier University and enrolled in pre-med. And I realized I didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted to be a teacher. Wow. You wasted all that time. A lot of people do that. You know what? I call it a learning experience, right? Cause we're young and we're learning. But anyway, so I did that, didn't want to do that. And so I was living in New Orleans at the time. And so I was like, I need to leave, move to Atlanta. I did a lot of moving. So you did go to Atlanta? Yes, I lived in Atlanta for like three years. Wow. And then after that I moved back home, got married, then moved to Ohio. And that's when I realized, you know what? I need to help people. At least I want to help people. I didn't know what capacity. I just knew I wanted to help them. And so I was like, if I want to help people. Did something happen? Why you all of a sudden wanted to help people? Did something happen in your life? Yes. You know, I was married and my husband passed away. And so I went through... How old were you? Ooh, I don't know, probably about 32 or something like that. But in that process, I saw a counselor went to group therapy, did a whole bunch of work on myself. And you saw how helpful that was? Yes, and so I saw how helpful that was. And so you know what? I was like, you know what? If I can get help from somebody else going through, because I think as black people, we really just don't know how to grieve. And we don't know what grief looked like. And so for me to be young and also to have children to raise and then not really expecting my husband to die, it's like, okay, let me get some help. And so when I took that and channeled that energy, went back to school, started all over again. Went to, you know, undergrad schools, started all over, started undergrad, and then I went to grad, became a counselor. Wow. Went through a lot. It took a lot. That sounded like it takes a lot of steps to become a counselor. Went through all that and got to where God wanted her to be. So do you have any regrets? No, none at all. Because I know that each of those steps, he was preparing me to be where I am today. And to become a counselor, do you have to go through all those steps to become a counselor? Yes, you do. How many years does it take normally? Like now and today, because I know you were talking about, you know, it was different back then than it is now. I can't, I don't know what it takes today. It may be Christina could elaborate on that. But I know for me, because I went straight from undergrad to grad school and I went like summer semesters, because I would determine, because, you know, because I'm older and I'm like, I don't have time to waste. And so for me, it took me about two years to finish grad school. Some people take three years, but I did it because I was like determined to get it done. And I knew I was on a timeline. And you're a counselor or a psychiatrist? Counselor. A counselor. And you know, I would think that you wouldn't have to, because I know that you are counseling someone so you have to go over like behavioral, you know, things in school and stuff like that. But I'm like, you don't have to do the medicine part of it. So I'm like two years, it still sounds like a lot of years just for some counseling. But you have to realize you're still dealing with people's mental health. Right at the end of the day, you know, you need training to deal with all of that. Because, you know, we look at people, we want to give them advice, but honestly, we don't need to give them advice. We need to walk them through the process. Do you ever have somebody ever ask you, who are you to advise me what have you ever been through? Or what gives you the audacity? No, you know what? You were the first person after that. You was the first person after that. There's a lot of first gold in there. That's how we get there. How many years have you been doing it now? I've been doing it now. I started in 2016 actually seeing clients to about five years now. That's good. Yeah, because I'll let you go ahead and tell yourself before I say what I... We want to bring in Wright. Okay, go ahead. Miss Christina Richardson, how's your day going? It's going good. I was telling your wife that I just got in from out of town. Wow, where were you at? I was in Denver. Denver, what's going on up there? That's legalized marijuana. Wow. That's what you were doing up there. That's what they do up there. That's what you were doing? I don't know. But I made a pact with myself that I was going to stop waiting on friends to be ready to travel and just go. And so that's... Did it feel good? Yeah. So did you know anyone there? No, not really. I just went up there and just have a good good way. Was that your first time? No. Well, okay. As an adult, yes. I went up for a leadership camp when I was in high school a long time ago. That's different than you. Yeah. It ends with church. So I didn't do nothing. In high school? And you can't remember what you done in high school? I was up for leadership. But she couldn't get away and do all the stuff that she probably wanted to do. What did she want to do? Smoke weed? I don't... I'm pretty sure it wasn't legal back then. It was not legal. Oh, well, I don't know. I'm just saying... But I get it. You know, like... So traveling is a thing that we like. We enjoy traveling. I know I do. I can't... You know, you like it, right? Yes, I do. Either you're pretending real good because you shall be happy when we go. But definitely, man, that's something that makes you feel better when you get out of town. And yeah, you just relax and you look out the window and you don't... You know, it's new to you. Get away from your regular routine. Yeah, yeah. That's one of the main things. It's a good... It's a part of my self-care. So yeah. Let's bring it on back. Bring it back. Come on, come on back. Bring it back. We want to get you back to council mindset, right? Okay, yes. But before that, you want to go back to where it all started. Well, we were in high school while we go. Before high school, I want to know all of that. So unlike Shannon, I've always wanted to be a counselor. Like, from day one. Really? Yeah. I used to counsel my adults and it's just something I naturally did. Your parents didn't do it? No. No. I just... Not... I once I was drawn to conflict, but people were drawn to be at their conflict or people were drawn to me for understanding or just to be heard. Did you have any siblings? No, I was the only child. Yeah, I could tell. Well, for 16 years. Okay. And then I got a sibling. Yeah, I could tell. For 16 years, then you got a sibling. Wow. Yeah. They're not playing. They're not playing. I believe that when I look at you and I look at your demeanor, I feel like I could talk to you like, yeah, about my problems. Yeah, talk to me. You know, just tell you everything. And then go to sleep or whatever, wake back up. Be fine. Yeah, like, dang, man, she helped me. Yeah. You're talking about hypnosis? Yeah, yeah. That's pretty much what it is. It is not. Yeah, y'all mesmerizing. That's what it is. No, that is not it. So, let me ask you this. So, you say you always wanted to be a counselor and did you pursue it straight out of high school? Yeah, I went to U of H and they didn't have a psychology program at the time, so I did human family, human development family studies. And then I ended up getting pregnant and had to come home because nobody would move to Houston with me so I could finish school. What school would you go to? U of A? I know I would have thought that prayer review that would have happened, but at U of A? Oh, wow. Yes. And it even happened down here, it happened at home, but that's another story. Oh, whoa. So, but... U of A is usually not the cold. And so, I really loved it and I wanted to continue so I ended up going to U of T A and they had a psychology program. So, I got my bachelor's in psychology from there and then through having to be a mom and be full-time and, you know... I love that it didn't stop you from going to school. No, but it delayed it, but it was my mission. Like, I was determined to finish and so full-time student, full-time mom, full-time working. Do you have your mom and dad still around at that time? My dad passed away my senior year in high school two months before I graduated and then I did have my mom. She's my... I always... I say I have a deep bench. Like, my son has two loving grandparents. His dad is in his life. And so, I had a deep seat of people who I could pool on to like, hey, I got this to do and I got that to do, which I needed in my master's program because I was working full-time and I was having to do hours and he was in baseball. So, I had to apologize to him a lot about not being there because the things I was doing was for him. Do you ever realize like, okay, before I say this question, how long have you... Now, have you been practicing? About the same time as Shannon. So, I graduated December of 2016. Okay. And then it took me... I ended up quitting my whale-paying job to go and make $14 an hour. That's what I'm talking about. I want to go back to this question. With all the people that you've counseled because I know a lot of times, just like you say, you had to apologize to your son a lot of times for different things. A lot of people who go through counseling, especially kids and stuff like that, you realize that it's because their parents are working all the time and don't have that quality time to spend with them why they are a certain way. Do you ever look at certain situations and then reflect it back on your life and be like, I need to be doing this more? You know what I mean? Well, you know what? So, in my friend's circle, everybody knows that my son has done something bad when he's with me. I don't have a problem being around my child. He goes everywhere. A lot of times, they're like, oh, you're about him? Yeah, he's here, he's here. He would go to work with me. Like, it never was a... people would see him and say, oh, what did he do today? And I'm like, today he did good. It's not a punishment today. But I think it created that bond in us that way. There's nothing he can't tell me. Because right now he's 19. He'll be 20 this year. And so there's nothing that we don't tell each other. There are conversations that we don't have. There isn't time... Like, he doesn't, oh, I want to spend time with you. He wants to spend time with me. We've traveled together. Okay. And so I've made sure that even though I was trying to do these things to set him up, that I would make sure I would shake it in with him. If I could take him, he was going to go. Because just like we had another young lady, Miss King, who she is a juvenile detention person who works there and she takes care of all of these kids. And she... And another young lady was on our platform. And the other young lady said that because she put all of the emphasis on those kids and treated them like her kids at home was lacking for their attention and everything else. And I've heard that. I've heard that from parents. And I'm like, how? Because I think with working with Shannon and Hamilton, a lot of kids, a lot of times when I would see kids kind of neglected by their parents or their parents don't know what to do or hearing the words, I don't want to hang out with them. I could burst you in Teen Titans Go. I can tell you about Pokemon. Because my son would pop quiz me. So I knew I had to be ready and prepared, but I was in his space. And so I knew what he loved to do and to think that my child is bothering me. I may be tired, but there's nothing that he couldn't ask me to do that I wouldn't do. You feel like you're overcrowding him? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he kind of. He's fine. He's fine. But I don't think... You know what? We have our space. Like, he'll come home and sometimes I'll go get, like, go lay in his bed and talk to him for five minutes and then it's fine. Like, the other night he was in my room for three hours talking and I was like, I gotta go to work. Does his father play part in his life at all? Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna say you lay in his bed with him and all that is confusing as hell to a boy. No. You know what I'm saying? Like, unless his father's taking him and doing some stuff with him, Mama, you know, I've heard these stories where mothers say, you know, I was a mama and a daddy. Well, no, you wasn't. No, no, no. You know what I'm saying? You was not the mother and the father. No. You may have been a good mother, but you were not the mother and the father. Yeah, yeah. That plays a significant role, you know? You know, and both of us didn't have our fathers in our lives and so no matter how much we may have had bumped heads or even not liked each other that day, we would put our face together and make sure that he had a father and he had a mother. That's dope. I like it. And it was a struggle for us, but we just, you know, struggled on the background but made sure he had a front. Like, if he had something supposed to go to the movies, we were like, we bein' that movie theater, watchin' the movie with him. And we would go our separate ways, but we had to because we wanted him to not be without either one. You know, but when I look at what you're saying, what keeps coming to my heart is the fact that for you to go through what you went through, your counseling, whether it's counseling or just your gifts, more importantly to me would be the fact of being a single parent and being able to do it in a way that you've done it when you're dealing with people who've been through that situation or getting ready to go through that situation. That's the thing that keeps pokin' at me as I'm talkin' with you. Like that part right there, I seem, like I know what I go through it becomes somethin' where we can reach out. Like things you've went through or you went through, those are where we're powerful at because we know we're tellin' you everything that we went through. Not somethin' we read in a book, but it's somethin' that life put in our face. I was pregnant when I was this age and I was goin' to college and you get a girl that comes sit in front of you and say, well, I got pregnant, you know. I can't do it. You see what I'm sayin'? Again, you can give her reassurance when somebody like a male counselor or somebody who have never had a child and go through that experience wouldn't be able to do that. So that's powerful. Yeah. And sayin' that recently, we had a young lady on here and she went through abuse when she was four. Four. Yeah. And she went to counseling and all of that, but she felt like, and I asked her, do you feel like the counselor even helped? And she's like, no. Because with what she had to go through, they reiterated her whole scenario of what happened over and over and over every day. And partially to me, it was an investigation to try to see if what you went through actually happened. And she said she understood that part but not over and over. So because of that, she had nightmares. She can tell you everything of what happened to the teen because it's almost like they rehearsed it every day because of the questions that she... But she's like, that shouldn't be for a four-year-old child. But it had its good and bad because now she's in the music and one of the traits that they try to help her to do is to write down a lot of what she was going through, whether through song or whatever, so that made her to be a good songwriter. But the other part was them reiterating that every day. And she's like, she wants to go back to be a psychologist or psychiatrist because she wants to change that because for kids, they shouldn't do that for children. For her being that person on the other side, it does not work. It does not help. And a child can't turn to a counselor and say, I don't want this. Yeah. But for her, I'm sorry, for her age group, so it happened that they called it for it may have been for the investigation. Exactly. And that's the bad part about it. They should have had somebody on the other side doing it. Not talking about it at all. That's right. But making sure she was stabilized. And then you got the investigator over here trying to get the details to make sure they put whoever behind bars. But I think that piece on the other side was missing of how do we get this child stabilized? How do we make them back to a four-year-old and not focus on the investigation part? So this sounds like that's what was missing. Right. Because that person who was asked when we were talking to her, she was like, that was a counselor. She didn't make it sound like that was the case. So you got to talk to get the you got to know the issues to get them, but you got to have the other person. Well, I said, you know, also, I know I seen a situation in my family where a young girl had said that something that happened to her, but she was coerced by her mother. So it goes both ways. So you can't just look at it all. We can't ask these questions because at some point, those questions, if it's some, you know, some coercing because they're mad at another individual, then you don't want to leave that person victimized as well. So you need to be trying to figure this out. This is a very touchy, complicated situation. But it's definitely something that you have to I say pray. You know, I don't know what y'all y'all might be Muslims or whatever. I don't know. They still pray. A lot. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Five times a day. Yeah. You got the right one over here. But at any rate, you know, you got to definitely know that the decisions that's being made for both parties are being looked at in the correct manner because there's a lot going on with a lot of things, man. And I'm not just, you know, I have to be the, you know, I have to look at it from both sides. That's all. I mean, because that's the last thing my father told me about when he passed away about his brother and some stuff that was going on to where if he hadn't it would, my uncle would have been in a lot of trouble. And, you know, and like I said, it's a touchy situation. Arcevious Armstrong was on there. He flew in from North Carolina. He's a motivational speaker and he went through a lot. He was molested four times before he was 12. 11. 11, 12. Yeah. And two by female. And two by male. Two by male relatives in the family. You know, this stuff is serious. Yeah. And we don't talk about it. Yeah. It's the yellow elephant in the room. But in today's society, do you find that there are more people coming up and talking about it because they've made it. I would say that almost the Me Too movement helped a little bit because people felt more comfortable, women felt more comfortable getting up and say, this is what happened because compared to when you were younger and something happened and you went and told your mom, and she's like, you know, don't tell nobody as being a victim or look at you. You got to be strong. Whether it be because the mom had went through the same thing when she was younger and that's what her mother told her to do. So now she's telling her child, this is the same thing. You know, this is what you need to do. Just brush it off. Act like nothing happened. You know, stuff like that. But nowadays you find more people saying, hey, because they're having more avenue to show the procedures of what to do. Go to the police. Do this. Do that. Do you have to be true? Well, I think now people are more self-aware. Like understanding what happened to me as a child directly affect me as an adult. So I'm getting a lot of adult clients that thought that they were over it. Right? Even though they never started therapists, even though they probably talked to their mom, went to the police, it was reported and they thought they were over it. Right? Because that's the word they use. Oh, I thought I was over it. But then life happens and something triggers them. And so that incident that happened many years ago is now showing up in their life. And so I think the Me Too movement brought like a self-awareness to people. To understand that, okay, what happened to me as a child is going to directly affect me as an adult in my relationships. Right? Because it's hard to find a healthy relationship. If you've been traumatized as a kid and you don't know what a healthy relationship is. Can they be over it? Is there such a thing as being over a traumatic? No. And that's like the worst and the most you could tell anybody. It's like you stubbing your toe and your husband being like, man, this still ain't hurting him. You don't feel this pain in my big toe. Like, I'm not over it. Now, how would you know? Let me just go there for a minute. I'm just saying I just feel it in my spirit. That's what happens. That's just what happens. Now, I get it you want to throw your scenario out there. But let me just go over that with my wife right quick. Baby, have you stub your toe lately? No, I get it, man. You know, I just, hey, all I know is from where I come from and what I believe, I believe that there is healing. Yeah, definitely. I believe that God can wipe things clean. I really do. If it's not true, then what I read is not correct. Because it's if any man being Christ is a new creature. So for me, it's a new slate. You get to start over. Because what happens is if you tap into what you really believe and then you really are one that's spiritually grounded, then you not what your mom and him taught you, not where you went out of, but really get a connection with God. I believe that there's healing according to what I believe. You know what I mean? So that's one of my biggest concerns. She knows when it comes down to counseling and everything else, I put God first. So, question with that, if you say you got a big gash on your arm and you don't have a needle and thread to sew it up. God can heal it. Yeah. What are you going to go to the doctor's office? I have never had that to happen. But I'm pretty sure I would go to the doctor. I'm not saying you can't go to the doctor. Yeah. That's not what I'm saying, but I am saying that you have to have an understanding of healing that it don't just come from a man. And I'm going to tell you something. Going to that doctor can make or break you as well. Yeah. There's so many stories I can tell you about. That is concern too. A cousin had brought to me about certain things because I just never thought about it in that way because sometimes we don't think about certain things until somebody mentions it. And what she said to me is that when she go to any doctor or anybody she always asks them before she go because she'll call and say, hey, does the doctor believe in God? You know, do they have a personal relationship with Christ? Yeah. They say, no, okay, move on to the next one and I never thought about it that way because growing up, you just went to the doctor, you just went over here, did this, do that. Yes, you went to church and all that, but you never thought about the person, whoever. If you're doing surgery, you got to make sure that person believes in God. That's your belief. You know what I mean? Because you know that God is going to guide their hands to do what needs to be done. Like I said, and hey man, it's really, it's something you really have to, you have to really, really, you got to go get checkups. You got to go do these things. Technology has us to where, you know, and our doctors have us to where we're in a better place. We know that. But you also got to know that God is real. It's a balance. You got to have balance and even spirituality. If I come in here and just getting my Bible, it's in the truck or somewhere and put it on here and all we want to do is talk about that and act like we're not on earth and that's not going to help nobody either. Yeah, sure. And sometimes people are trying to find their way back. Like when you think about people who are dealing with abuse from the church or when you think about people who are dealing with a church abuse from within a family, they want to, all their heart go back to what they know. But they have kind of mixed up the bad things that happen to them and God. And so sometimes like a couple of my clients, they're like struggling with their relationship and sometimes they'll bring it up and sometimes I'll say, you know, can we, can bring God in? Are you good with that today? And sometimes they'll okay. And sometimes they'll nah, I don't want God in here today. And I'm good with that because I know sometimes we, you know, we treat him like that but he's a parent, he understands. And then sometimes they'll be like, what's that Bible verse? All right, let's bring it in. Wow. People are trying to agree at him where they just don't want to hear his name and they don't want to tell him something. But that's a projected in a way to where it becomes personal. Instead of you thinking that you have to go through a man to get to God, then all these things, these scenarios they start to change. And that's the biggest issue that we have. Yeah. Because God showed us that we could go directly to him after whatever if you read, you know this but a lot of people in tradition, they don't understand that. So they think until I get to pastor, until I do this, I'm not connecting to God. And that's the biggest thing that people say. You know, it's not real. That's not what God's word states. And that's why I have an issue with it. Because you didn't go and do your research and tap into God. Now you want me to be stipulated by whatever little concentrated thought that you've put up about God. Yeah. And that's what people do. Not only to do people that don't know, these are people that are in the churches. These are leaders in the churches controlling people by using scriptures when we think about our profession. We have so many young men who were led astray by men in the church. So now I don't trust men. I may be homosexual. I don't understand this relationship with God. So you have all this mix of things that are wrapped around this entity of church. But it's not, they're not, like you said, going back to the Bible and seeing those pieces. What percentage of clients come into you with stuff like that? I have had, how I was raised and just being raised in the church. He just sent me all of them. They going over there. Yes. And I'm like, I intentionally did not put Christian counseling on my profile. I don't want it. But they come in anyway. But they come in. That's right. They come in. It's your ministry. Well, not only it's a ministry, it's a big issue that we have in society today because everywhere you go, people are telling you this is what you need to do. And a lot of times and we think just because it's white and has a steeple on it that it's going to save people in a lot of time and actuality is false gospel. It's the spirit of error. And we try to act like, oh, just because they went, it's all good, but it's not like that. And the things that you're talking about that people come to you for a lot of people would not think to come to a counselor for that. They think, oh, let me go find another pastor. Let me go find another preacher. They wouldn't think about coming to a counselor. Yeah. Who the pastor pretty much, you know, was his father and he had to hide it and he didn't get to talk to it. Because his father had a wife and everybody else. He had a couple of kids in the church and he still was teaching and preaching to this day. This is happening. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. And he's probably What I think about mental, well, because growing up I didn't hear about mental illness a lot. I heard about if you heard about mental illness. Yeah. So nobody nobody categorized any of these issues. So some people that older generation like at first when it started happening everybody's talking about mental illness. I'm like, you so soft like like everything is just mental illness. That's like OCD. People know we used to talk about OCD as much. But now you're so clean and you has to be a certain way and has, oh, you OCD. I'm like, no, I just like how things are supposed to be. They're kind of different severity of mental illness. And you have some people who haven't gone through that much. And just because they're example of mom didn't give them any attention. So they all of a sudden the way how they treat women now is different because of that, but they don't know why I treat women like that. So they're coming to council to figure and they gotta go back to figure out, okay, this is where it start. But everything to me is traditional sin. Because even like I was listening to secret minds of a millionaire. And- So good by T. Harvicker. Yes, and it talks about changing your mindset because we don't realize our blueprint is what he calls it. We get that from seeing our parents or say example, say example, our parents said, I said, I want to be rich as a child. And my mom said to me, oh, rich people are selfish. They're this, they're that. I'm growing up with a frame of mind that I don't want to even subconsciously. That I don't want to be a millionaire because I'm gonna all of a sudden be selfish. And it talks about stuff like that. So it just could be the smallest thing somebody say to you that all of a sudden subconsciously, you become that. Correct. Even when you think about kids, when if a mom constantly tells, like if they have a, she has a bad relationship with the dad, she tells you're just like your dad. But all he hears is negative about his dad. I'm gonna pick up those traits that think I'm just like my dad. And vice versa with the mom. And so there are things that we learn that are sets us even like women with worth. If a girl is never told that she's beautiful within her home, within her safe space, then the first person that says she's beautiful is this dude at school or something. That's where she's gonna realize that's where my worth comes from. Because nobody at home feels like I'm beautiful. And so we have to, that's all we have to take it to the kids and make sure that they can trust home. Cause I tell my son all the time, your homeboys are gonna tell you how great something is. I'm gonna tell you the real part of it. I'm gonna tell you the aftermath. Yes, it's gonna be great in this moment, but these are the steps that's gonna happen afterwards. And so we have to be able to have those conversations and treat our children as such. So that way when they get older, the first dude who tells them they're beautiful is not the one that's also gonna abuse them. It's not the one that's gonna take advantage of them. It's not the one that's gonna break them down to their lowest because they never got that stability at home. What does treatment look like from a counselor? Because I know with a psychiatrist or psychologist, they can prescribe. So what does treatment look like from a counselor? It really depends on your modality, right? So that's just the way we counsel people. Like I'm CBT, which is cognitive behavior therapy. Meaning I really believe that everything we do, our behavior stems from what we think, like what we've been talking about. So the same thing, like if, just today I was telling someone, growing up sometimes, like you said, your mom might tell you, oh, you're never gonna be anything, well, you're gonna grow up thinking, I'm never gonna be anything. But to combat, guess what? You gotta tell yourself every day I will be somebody. I am worth it, I deserve it. You have to constantly tell yourself that every day. And it's hard to get females to understand that concept because they don't never hear it. And so when you tell them, you know you gotta repeat that stuff every day. They're like, why gotta repeat that stuff every day? I don't believe it. Well, you have that belief system you have because you heard it somewhere down the line and you told yourself that over and over again. And so that's why you believe that. So guess what? So now you gotta reframe the way you think about yourself. Now you have to tell yourself, I'm worth it, I deserve it, I need more, I'ma get more. You know, you have to tell yourself that constantly every day. And so it is a battle because if you don't get that nourishment at home growing up and then you're an adult trying to figure out, okay, why my life is like this, it's hard to kind of make those connections and help them to understand. It's because your belief system, you know, the way you were raised, have you thinking one way about yourself? And really you can actually do better and you can actually get this done. When I think about what y'all are saying, both y'all and you, all three of y'all, I still go back to the Bible where it says you're fearful and wonderfully made. If you're training your child up the Bible say you God's, the Bible say you're a chosen generation of peculiar people, it tells you all these things. So if you're teaching your children this, if it's something you believe in, then they should know their self-worth come through God. But that's where people, they take it to a, I wanna make it to where you can understand it without God. And then they come back to God when they have any issues. And they say, you know what, I got saved. But at the end of the day, if we were training our children up the way God's words say, you would already be educating them as they grow up, like we do our children. But true or false, just like Archivia said in his interview, he grew up not knowing God, not hearing about God. He didn't learn about God until he actually went to prison. I picked up the Bible. So you have some children who go through things not even knowing anything about God. I agree with that 100%. I agree with that so wholeheartedly. But what I'm saying for the people who do, so-called have a relationship with God, when they're getting taught under the spirit of error, because they go into some building, they ain't even telling any kids about the word. Let's be real. People don't really read the Bible like that. They're not even, they don't get it taught. They wait until somebody to show them and tell them. So- Are they doing different? They're like in the verse you just quoted, they're using it as an abusive manner, you know? Like, you know, if anybody like, like if you get A's or you think you're hearty because all of a sudden I got A's on this thing, you know, you didn't get them A's, God got those A's. Really? Parents, it's religious abuse. And that's why you have kids who kinda like, we all get it. We are here because God made sure we drove down to where he ain't got here today. But we also know, you know, that we, you know, somebody down the line taught us how to drive and then we, you know, such and such wasn't texting and driving. So we weren't, you know, so we know the angels are with us. But there are so many people who use it. Just twist the word. I can imagine some people using it as a way of control. I agree. I can see that. But do we act as if it's not real because there are evil spiritual weaknesses in high places? No, we're just saying this way. Or do we educate and try to make sure we combat it? Cause what happens a lot of times, just like Nas X and all these other singers that's putting out evil music and all that, if we don't have platforms set up to make positive change, then it's not gonna, we're not doing what we need to be doing. So if we fight these battles in a way that we try to strategically do it in a way to where okay, it fits and you can relate to it better, do we leave the essence out of the word of God when we, if we don't decide to teach him for that way? You know, I know a lot of times counseling, because a person that already went through it, they have to help you because they've been through hell and hot water. But where do we start to say, hey man, you gotta influence this in the home. You know, if it's a little child, do we even care? You know, if we, but I'm just saying, do we, I mean, do we, you know, y'all might, but I'm just saying certain people. Yeah, you know, since certain people gonna be like, no, you gotta do it this way without even excluding God. And they're not gonna come out their situations from what I believe, I'm telling you. They're gonna go right back. Y'all gonna make a lot of money is what I'm telling you. Cause they coming right back. I'm telling you now. Yeah, we know. They coming right back. You would have been up 15, 17, 22 years. They'll be back every time. Do you ever have clients that you have to reprogram their minds, so to say and tell them, okay, look in the mirror, say you're beautiful, you're beautiful and they actually do it and then they do believe it, where they don't need it anymore? Yeah, definitely. I mean, but that's the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is when they come to see you, you know, you said therapy goes up, but the goal is for them to reframe how they think about themselves and be able to, you know, be a, you know, productive part of society without having those negative thoughts about themselves. I mean, don't get me wrong. We all have negative thoughts about ourselves. We all, you know, but at the same time, you know, some people is more intense than others, but you want, you know, you give them the strategies to say, okay, when I have that thought, this is how I'm gonna combat that thought. Like I'm gonna have it, but I understand it's not real. So I'm gonna, you know, change it the way I think about myself and, you know, think something else about myself. Have you ever had to have counseling yourself, either one of you? Yes, she did. Yeah, she said she did. Yeah, what happened? Let's talk about that. Well, what do you mean, what happened? How come you end up in the land down on the chair? You remember, she told us that her husband had passed away, so she did counseling. Okay, but that was the only time you did counseling? Well, no, because I did it. Yeah, I figured that. Let's get into it. Well, but even after that, I had to go to, because even, okay, so once you enter into the counseling program, you go, they make you go through counseling, yes. You never went? Yeah, we have to, because you think about all the things, all the stories and all the things that are told to us, we kind of need an outlet too, to be like, I can't, none of them say I can't take this home, but making sure a self check with ourselves to make sure we're good, and it's a part of our self care. We would look like hypocrites if we didn't feel comfortable going to counseling. Okay. And that's so funny you said that, because we were just talking about the other day, the other day how policemen, the things that they see on a daily basis and how that must affect them, and I guarantee you all of them don't go to counseling, because that's why a lot of things they react to in a certain way that's not really appropriate, but they're human beings, you know what I mean? Because they're not going to counseling to let off that load of things that they've seen. People see dead people all the time. How can you go home and, you know? It's like a sign of weakness, like that's my passion, like working with military and first responders and police officers about the process, because just because you have in a moment where you break down because of something you saw, you walk into a crime scene and you see kids, I can't imagine that. And so you gotta have somewhere to let that go in order to be your whole self. And just like we as people, like you're a dad, you're an entrepreneur, you're a husband, but if you aren't you, you can't be great at those other things. And we have to take care of who we are at the core in order to put ourselves out into the world. So as a police officer, if you aren't taking care of who you are as that person, that man, then you're gonna suck it being a police officer, you're gonna suck it being a husband, you're gonna suck it being a dad, because you aren't taking care of your vessel. But like you said, you can't imagine what they had went through, how can you advise them knowing that you hadn't even been through that, you haven't seen that, how can you advise them? I just talk, like what is it? Like my first client, I was scared, it was a Marine. And I just knew, oh Lord, we've been to have a whole bunch of, best client ever because all he wanted to, was to feel hurt, he'd never feel hurt. He didn't feel hurt when he was growing up, had abusive dad, and then went to the military and was told to go different places. And so it's just like, he just wanted somewhere to feel hurt and to get his story out. And once he did, he started processing. It's so funny because somebody in the military were talking, because we go around and we talk to everybody everywhere, and he was saying that in the military, they would tell you, you can't go to counseling if you wanna be promoted because it shows a sign of weakness. Oh, it's a battle. So a lot of people will not see counseling, and even for those people that he was talking about, that they did rise up to rank, but now they're out. And that they still won't see counseling because in their mind, they're thinking, if I go see this counselor, it means that I'm weak. But you need to unpack all of that stuff that you've seen in the military. And you would think they would want that, but that's, I could be on here all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, when you went to counseling, okay. And when you was in counseling, I mean, did you act right? Did you, were you a good counseling? What, like was I on time? Yeah, was you. Did you open up? Did you open up? It's hard. It's hard. It's hard to open up. It's hard to be vulnerable. Or did you find out things about yourself while you were in counseling when they went back to your past that you didn't even realize that that even affected you? I can't say I did because my first sessions were with the school. And so, like, I know I have daddy issues, not daddy issues, but I have daddy issues. But, you know, my dad was alcoholic and so there are some things surrounding, you know, that, that, you know, you have issues with. All the black dads was alcoholic. You trying to come up with something. My dad was not alcoholic. Oh yeah, he's trying to sign. No, he did not. Now all I'm saying is people go through things, right? And, you know, being a black person, okay, when you start to look at what our people endured, everybody need counseling. Fathers were stripped from mothers. Mothers were stripped from kids. Do you believe that that comes down from generations? Well, I just don't know. No, it's the same thing that he did. I'm trying to do my spiel here, she took it. It's a part from what you're saying. All I'm saying is there's a lot of work to be done in our culture. Yeah. Do you think it comes down? I don't know. It's so many levels. What you mean? You said don't come down? Because you always say that. So I want to hear from their professional. I did say that. Did you say that? I didn't say that. No, I didn't answer the question. Me and from all of those years. From all of those years. I'm gonna cut this part. Go ahead, I'm just kidding. From all of those years of what black people had to go through. You don't think it's passed now? I think our heritage is lost. Like we don't, our sense of family is, we have a strong sense of family, but we also have a strong sense of loss. And so it's, we oftentimes either go one way or the other where we like really cling to our family or we're easy, just like put them to the side. And when you think about those bondages, those things that was broken, how mentally strong do you have to be to just be like, I had a wife and kids and I gotta keep pushing. You know? And so it's just like that there's a book and I cannot think about it, but it talks about how women, their ovaries are formed at birth. Like a conception, you have your ovaries. So that means I was in my grandmother. We was in a same situation. And whatever trauma, yeah, whatever trauma she experienced, I experienced it. That's dope, right? And so it just talks about how generationally we don't really see that or understand why we have these generational curses because we were there in Sweden. Shannon, what do you think? Because I'm gonna be honest with you, Christina has given us her spiel. I'm sorry. And I just wanna know what you think because I know being from New Orleans. You definitely know what's going on, you know? I mean, I do think it is generational. I do because I encounter so many women. Let me tell you that experience something, do not tell their parents, but then when they decide to open up to their parents, the parents reveal, oh, that happened to me. Even though, cause in a lot of times we think it's protection. Like we, okay, I'm gonna protect my child. So I'm not gonna tell her what happened to me. But then in the minute you try to protect her, the same thing happened. Even though she don't know, she'd go through the same thing. And you see, I'm the total opposite. Whereas I'm thinking if I went through something, I don't want that to happen to her. So I need to make her aware of the signs and things to look for. So that does not happen to you. So that's what I would think. But so many parents going to protective mode. I'm not gonna share, cause I'm protecting her, right? But that protection ultimately leads her to do the exact same thing you went through. So I do think it's generational. I'll be a preacher. I don't know. I think you go to San Wesson. Yeah, I know that's why, dig down with it. You know what I'm saying? I don't think I can say, as you guys are, you guys are definitely needed. I mean, I've definitely never went to a mental illness or nothing cause I feel like God is my counselor. He's always saying. Man, I'm just gonna be real with y'all. And I don't know what everybody else go through. But I know when I hit my knees or when I'm trying to, I will just, I let it go. And some things I know I've been through that. I mean, I dump on people, you know, I catch a old lady out there sitting on a bench and I say, you know what? And when I get up, she says, my God. Ha ha ha ha ha. Come on, man. She was just trying to get to the bus. Yeah, I dumped on a lady at the dollar store one day. She said, oh God. I said, yeah, that's what happens. And she said, okay, well, have a nice day. She's not trying to get her done in her baby. So you don't have to host me. I always feel like everything you go through both are in life, it's for a purpose. And you, you know, good and bad, it's to help someone else. It's not really for you. So just like the things you've been through, you're using that to help someone else through counseling. Or it could be a stranger on the street, anybody. But I feel that everything is a lesson. So we need to pass on when we overcome. That's why I say that this platform is to help our listeners because it's so crazy. I would think that everybody leave their house and go places. But I remember being on the phone with the lady one time. I remember how we ended up on the phone. And she was telling me, I don't leave my house at all. Meaning like everything she orders online, it comes to her house, she said, I do not. I'm scared to leave my house. And I'm like, I thought this stuff only happened in the movies. I didn't know if this is real, that people actually do not, and this was before pandemic, that they don't leave their house. And I'm like, okay, I know she's not the only one. There's probably a lot of people out there. And I'm like, how do they get help? I remember when I was house hunting, and this was maybe about five years ago. I was looking for a house. And so they had a house in Duncanville, and I never forget. Now this was in the midst of me graduating as a counselor. But anyways, we went to this house and a lady was outside. And you would think because the house was for sale, because usually when you try to sell your house, you clean it up, you try to make it look pretty. This lady, when you go in, she was a hoarder. Like there was trash, I mean, when you step in the door, all you saw was trash. And this lady was actually selling her house. And so the counselor and me kicked in. Cause I was like, do you think, I was like, someone is here to help you. You know, why you, I'm gonna extend her questions. Cause I'm like, it's nowhere in the world, this lady is prepared to leave this house in the condition that it's in. But she was at a point that she had to sell. But I was mad at the realtor, because I'm like, you allowed, I was, you know, they allowed that person. But did you get down to the nitty gritty of why she's how she is? Why are hoarders the way they are? I didn't get down to that point, but I did tell my realtor to report that realer. Because I was like, it's no way this woman house should be for sale, because mentally she's not ready to sell her house. But it was just the way that the house was just pretending. I've seen, we have seen, cause the thing is that I've never seen anything like that until, you know, we watch, watching TV, you know that show at hoarders, whatever. That's all right. But it's a totally different when you see it on TV compared to when you see it in real life. Because same thing, we knew someone about a month ago who was selling their house and we went to see the house and say this is the ceiling, right? Whenever I stepped into the house, the ceiling was right here. But naturally, if it was a clean floor, the ceiling would have been right there. So that's how much clothes that was in. And she was like, oh, this is the kitchen. And even in the kitchen, you couldn't see nothing. I'm like, okay. I realized why she left every day. She probably went to buy food to eat out cause there's no way you can cook in that house. You couldn't see the garage. You couldn't, I mean, her bedroom. You can't sleep in it. So I don't know in my mind, I'm like, how can you live like that? And yes, they didn't have any kids, but she was married. And I couldn't understand. I didn't go into council mode to find out, but it was curious. When you said that, I'm like, why do people hoard? Is it that they're holding on to something that they've lost and they're trying to regain that? It could be a number of reasons, right? Cause we, this is the thing. Everybody have their own coping mechanism, right? Everybody goes into, you know. Whether alcoholism or whatever. Exactly. So it could be collecting things, right? We all have our own coping strategies that we use when we're, you know, experiencing anxiety and stuff. And so that could be just her coping mechanism. Not that she was trying to hold on to anything, but maybe she felt like one part of her life was out of control, but I can control what's coming in my house. So I'm gonna just buy up everything and put it in here. Right? So it could make- Well, how did she convince her husband to feel the same way? Yeah, he was in that world and he was really living there with it. But he's an enabler though. And he used to worry about me every day. He's an enabler. Yeah, he come over and talk to me. And I say, you all gonna clean that front of that house up. He live next door. And I say, the city came through here today. I just say a little stuff to try to get him. And he would clean it up after I tell him that. But now they finally sold him when they did. I was gonna, I thought about buying it until I went in. I was like, no, I'm not gonna do this. I can't deal with this. Even though it was a good deal, I couldn't see the floor, I couldn't see the walls. You couldn't go in the room. The room was blocked out to where everything was coming out at once. Let me tell you how many, how much things she had. I pictured this. It's a three bedroom house, right? They took three huge truck loads. When I mean truck, it looked like, you know, like 18 wheeler back of the truck. Three truck loads of stuff out. It still was full. It was, the garage was still jammed. They left a whole bunch of stuff there for whoever got it to clean the rest of it. And even then when they came in, they bought another two, two big truck loads like that full. That's how much stuff was in that house. So let's get back to mental health, Christina. What's the worst thing you've seen? Now, let me ask Christina about counseling, you know? Abuse, have you guys, y'all ever been through abuse to where a man hit you? No, I haven't. Okay, you, no lie, cause I was thinking about something a while ago. I said, you know what? People not opening up, not even y'all. People not telling everything. Drop it out. No, I'm being like, I've had those times. Did you hear what I just said? I've had a time. We sitting here talking, but a lot of times people not being real. I wanna hear everything. Let's go. Get that camera on. Well, I've been in relationships where we've had a little bit more to test our boundary. And so it's not that I've never been hit, slapped or anything like that, but I've been handled in a way that I was like, wait. Somebody roughed you up a little bit. Yeah, not roughed me. So there you go. You should shake you a little bit. I knew in that moment, I didn't like that feeling. I wanted to leave. And so I wanted to leave. But when you think about abuse, a lot of times people don't leave because of the familiarity of abuse. Well, the reason they don't leave is because they grew up maybe seeing this. Yeah, from being married to a baby. Like they mama went through something like that. And some, I talked to one of my friends years ago, over 20 years ago, and he say, man, me and this girl was together. And when we got into it, she wanted to go and have sex. After we had gotten to a big argument, when I was getting released, she ran into him and I pushed her back and she said, come on, man. I'm like, he was like, and that's the way she, in her mind, felt like love was expressed. And this is what we deal with, with mental illnesses. People get caught up mentally, like you was saying first off about the mind. The mind is something that the Bible even tells you that you have to renew. So these things are really ways, when I hear counseling, most of the time, that's why I go back to the word of God because it always reflects something that came from a place there that I can relate to, because I read. And I'm like, that's the same thing you say. They should have read that, you know. Everybody's not reading. Correct, correct. And that's the part, that's the part right there. Or they have been reading, it goes back to their abuse. They have been reading and it's been twisted. Twisted. And it's also like, if you think about it, if you bring God in, if you think about it in a sense of like, I'm a person, I've never gone to church. I don't know about church. I don't know about God. But then they come across me or Shannon who do know about God. And I'm not talking about out the gate. We like, let's pray. No, I'm going. But then eventually over time, as they start to bring it in, you're able to like, drop a little bit in. Drop a little bit in. And then they kind of form their relationship. And then you can send them out. It's not about us being preachers or whatever, but if this is, like you say, if this is my ministry, he's gonna figure out a way to make it work for him. That's right. That's true. And I don't have to say, I don't have to put Christian counseling on mine because I don't want anybody coming in feeling like they can't just be, I'ma come in with the gospel plan. You're gonna stop some people from coming to you as well too. Who needs that help? Because they see the Christian. I don't wanna hear about God. That's what people say on here a lot of times. First thing they say is this a Christian podcast because of the way you talk about God? And I'll tell them no, because it's not. It's a podcast. Are there Christians here? Yeah. But at the Christ followers or people who are in Christ as a Bible say, don't say Christians like that. It's a in Christ. That means, hey, yeah, we can talk about whatever. But just because you say this or that, doesn't mean I'm gonna say this or that. And I feel like I'm the light that can lead you out of darkness. So I don't trip. You can do what you wanna do. You know what I mean? But if you keep messing with me, it's going down. You know what I mean? So I just know God been too good for me to, I will never deny him, but I will meet people where they're at. You know what I mean? And that's what y'all do. Same exact thing. I'm not trying to drag you anywhere. And I always tell my clients, you come in, it's like you're going on a trip. You have all your suitcases. You tell me which one you wanna unpack. And we'll focus on that one. It's not about unpacking all at the same time. And he's laying down or she's sitting on the chair? They're sitting in the chair. They're sitting in the chair chair. Who wants the movies, man? Two people laying down. Two people laying down. I used to go to the store and say, this is a couch. I'm gonna have my pants in an office. I'm gonna have this. Ooh, it's comfortable. You're the thing. I'll give you a couch. Man, if you don't feel asleep. Man, it's so mean. So have y'all ever thought about doing some things to work? And I know, are y'all are y'all independent? Are y'all private owned or? Yeah, we are. So I mean like I could do it like if people signed consent form, we could do a TV program where y'all talk. That'd be dope. Let's talk. Let's talk about it, right? That's what I'm telling you. Let's talk about it. And we do a segment where we bring people on. That would be dope. We'd be like a counseling is popping. That's what everybody's into. Y'all could, it used to be like this. But after the pandemic it even went up a lot more because people needed someone to talk. They were isolated. They were so isolated. People were so, counseling went up because people were so isolated. Like if my habit is to go here after work, go do this on Tuesdays, go to the gym, go do this on Wednesdays. And then I was told in one day to not do any of that. What percentage you think went up? Man, it was, I mean, I mean, I don't remember. Oh God. I was about 300%. Ms. Richardson. But no. Was it more white, black, or is it? Everybody. Everybody. And then also the pandemic made you face whatever you were going through. Because we have, you know, if you're always busy, busy, busy, you have all these distractions and now the world, everything is shut down. You have no choice but to face what you're going through. Because you don't have all the distractions. You don't have no choice but to look in the mirror and say, you know what, this is what I'm dealing with. And so the pandemic helped a lot of people too. It helped a lot. Because, yeah, I'm like, you got to face this. A lot of people don't like they keys now because of the pandemic. No, they didn't like them before. How is the virtual counseling compared to in-person counseling? That's a good question. I love it. She don't have to leave the house. She's sitting back. Yeah, well go ahead. She dressed from here up. Can't stand it up. Excellent. Oh my God. But definitely, definitely you know, I mean, But can you see everything, meaning like, you know. Do you think you're still helping? As much, yes. You get the same feedback. Can you do as much? Yes, because it forces you to be present, right? Because it's all, it's you and the screen and it forces you to be present, to pay attention to them and nobody but them. Like, you don't have a choice but to listen to what they're saying. Like in the office, you know, you can get distracted because you can give them worksheets. You know, you can do all kind of things in the office setting, but here it's like, it's, you know, it's personal. And not only that though, for me, I had to learn to read, you know, just face your expressions too though. Cause you're in the office, you can read body language and so it's hard. But like say, for instance, if somebody come on the screen and the camera is facing up and not they face, or they might be to the side, you know, you could pick up on those kind of clues, right? Now say, hey, look, you know, can you turn the camera and face it to you? Kevin Samuels, that's what he says. Push your face back from that camera. Yes. Well, she don't like when I bring him. I don't know him. I don't know him. No, good. Don't know him. But it's still certain little things you could pick up, you know, to see, you know, what they're going through. Cause a lot of times, you know, they might be in a car and I'm like, okay, we don't do that being a car. We need, I need you to be home. You know, we, Oh, so that is a criteria. Yes. Okay. I can go grocery shopping with you. Call me baby. Why not? Yeah. That's convenient. We need your undivided attention. But in the car, honestly, cause like when I'm driving on the street, that's the time when I, you know, think about everything relaxed while I'm driving. So I'm able to just tell you whatever while I'm driving compared to being at home. You might have distractions. Yeah. True. And we do have people that go to the park and they'll tell you, hey, look, I don't have the, you know, the quiet time at home. So I'm gonna just go to the park and I'm okay with that. But not what you're driving. We're not going there. And not at Walmart. Yeah, we're not. Well, how can people get a hold to you guys if they wanted to, you know, get some help? Well, I have a website. My private practice is called hold within counseling. So it's www.holdwithincounseling.com or they can call me at 214-903-4434. Hey, that's right. Get that number. Mr. Will's gonna be mad at you. That's my business line. That's my business line. Go ahead, you're gonna eat the one of those, too. Okay. So I'm at my business call. So continue on my counseling and that's S-O-L-E-C-O-N-T-I-N-U-U-M counseling.com and I don't know my phone number. So I just go in there. Okay. But you need to know yours yourself. I know. You're yours out there, man. I know. She would have all them Christian calls. Oh my God. No, this ain't, man. You guys definitely... No, I wanna know one more thing. One more thing? What is the worst case or the... You can't say that because of them. That you've ever encountered and the outcome? I'm gonna start with you, Christina. You think about what she asked Shannon. It's coming up. So mine was, and I won't give too many details, but it was definitely family trauma. And like we were talking earlier, like a young man who was abused and he was at a precipice of not knowing, am I gay because I was abused by a man or am I gay because I wanna be gay? And it's that there was one of those moments where I didn't, I was like, how do we begin to unpack that? How do we, because when we know, and as you know, you're about this in cases where people are, you know, oh, he was aroused or she was aroused. So that means she's, it wasn't brave. Like, no, you're gonna be, you're gonna, it's a pleasure center. So you touch me where I'm supposed to be pleasurable. There's gonna be a reaction in my body. So as a young man, if I'm being touched in a certain way by another man, and my pleasure center is activated, I don't know if, does that mean I like that? Or does that mean, and so when your choice is taken away, now you gotta make these decisions later on about I don't know if I liked it back then or if I, you know, I don't know. And so it's so many different things that come into play that we just had to unpack, but it was becoming, you know, too much for him. But that was one of my hardest ones I didn't get to see through to the end. But that's how deep some of these things go. How do you correct that? You can correct it. They have to correct that. And that's what like going back to, we don't give them the answers. All I can do is talk to you. And like I said, let's unpack some of this stuff. Let's see, you know, what's behaviors now. Like how do you feel like, you know? I get that because that's what Alkevia said, when you can talk about it, that's where the healing begins. Most people have a power over you anymore. Yes, yes, when you can't talk about something, it does have power over you. Yep. So just talking. And you? It's on you now. I'm not gonna say, this is the worst one I've had. Drop it like it's hot. I'm not gonna say this is the worst one, but I often think about this, right? But it was just a girl. And so she wanted to let her mom know that she was gay. And so to hear, this is the thing for me, it changed my perspective of people in general, because I related to the mom as a parent. And I felt so bad for this little girl, right? But anyways, but when she revealed to her mom and the way her mom spoke to her, like my heart went out to that girl because it was never any words that I would wanna tell my daughter. Regardless of how you relate to it or whatever, I felt so bad for the young lady because of the way her mom talked to her because she revealed this information. And I'm like, she was at a safe space to where she felt like she could tell mom and for mom to just backlash on her, like my heart went out. And I think from that point on, honestly, I prayed about it. And I was, and I think I told you guys, I said, you know what? I'm open, I could see anybody. And from that moment, I've been getting a lot of LGBTQ clients. Let me say this, meeting people where they are. Again, you meet people where they are, and at the end of the day, whatever God is doing in that situation, it's a process, no matter which way it goes. But the thing I say, there's a lot. There is a lot to unpack with both of the situations that you guys just talked about. You know, it's so many different ways people look at that. You know what I mean? And everybody got, but you have to let people heal because that's just one way a person shows behavior pattern or through sexuality. Some people can be too far over the top. Some people just hide it. You just don't know, man, what you're dealing with. So I commend you guys for having to even have those conversations. Those are some heart ones to have. But put God first. Oh yeah, that's right. Have you ever gotten a case where you had to recommend them to psychiatrists because you felt that they needed medication? Oh yeah, we get that all the time. Yeah, that's what they do. What's the barrier of, okay, you don't need medication compared to you do because I've had people who suffered with mental illness come on the platform and one person would say, well, I have to have medication. And this other one would say, no, I don't do medication because whether I used to be on drugs when I was younger and any sort of medication, it's gonna give me that relapse sort of feel. So how do you know? But see, that's a different because you have to take that into consideration. Like even if there's a history of drug abuse in a family or even like you said before, if they say, okay, I was addicted to drugs before. In that case, you have to be kind of cautious with that person because there is a chance that they can get addicted to the medication that the doctor prescribed them. So it's kind of, you have to kind of feel your clients out to that perspective with some clients. I mean, if your anxiety is so bad that it's interrupting your day-to-day experience, I tell them all the time, you may need to seek medication. Because there's so many people today that have told me that I never even knew they were on anxiety and all these other medications because once you're depressed or anxiety, you get like a whole lot of medication. I'm like, all of these medications have side effects. And I'm like, to me, they're not good for you. So I'm like, you have to be able to find another way of how to control this, whether through meditation or something else. Well, it's almost like, you know, if you take that, take the mental health out of it, like if you a doctor diagnosis somebody with diabetes, they say you have to take this medication or you can exercise. Some people choose to not do the work to get off the medication and take the, just take the medication. It's easy. I don't got exercise to take this medication. I could just do what I've been doing. And so when you think about mental health, there are things, mindfulness and yoga and all these things that can help you reduce your anxiety where you can kind of get off your medication, but you gotta wanna do that work. And that's the part we can't do for them. And so like Shannon says, if they are so anxious that they can't do anything, they can't function in life, you may need medication. But let's on this other side, let's figure out a way to help you wean yourself off of this. So that's, I think about it in all those ways. You have to wanna do the work. We can't do it for you. I can't go home with you and be like, remember we talked about transition, you wanna do that today? I can't do that. I told you what to do. I see you in a week. How often do people die from depression medication? I'm not sure of that statistic, but I, you know, to piggyback what she was saying is like, I tell people all the time, coming to see me every week, that's easy. Coming here, talking to me, unloading, venting, whatever you wanna call it, that's the easy part. But when you get off this session and you actually gotta put the work in, meaning the mindfulness, you know, meaning the yoga, whatever you need to do, reframe your thoughts, you know, coming away affirmations, that's the hard part. That's the work, right? That's the part that they have to do themselves. Cause you know, they'll come and talk to you all day and vent and do all these things, but then they leave and they don't do anything. Right. So that's what they gonna come back the next week in the same situation. They use you as a, what you call it, a crutch? Just to do, because the reason why I asked you about people dying from that medication, because we had a friend who, she had lost her mom. And then two weeks later, cause her anxiety and all the depression because of that, cause her mom died just like that. It wasn't anything expected. And then soon afterwards, she was on all this medication and then I think the doctor had switched the medication. Three weeks later. She died. And she died like her husband was trying to wake up that morning and she didn't, and the day before, no, the day before is when he switched the medication and then all of a sudden the next day she died. And you know, I'm like, okay. They try to say that the medication didn't die. And in a lot of some, that's true with all medications. Like you can be taking something that reacts to something. And that's why a lot of times too, we in psychiatrists are supposed to do it too. As in what all are you taking? Like are you taking thyroid medicine, dysmedicine, that medicine, that medicine? Because they will react. You got all those chemicals in your body. Somebody's gonna not agree with something. And so, but yeah, I don't know the statistics on that, but that, you know, a lot of times people aren't just taking depression medicine, they're taking so many other things, yeah. Well guys, I'm fit to bring y'all back to earth. You know, which you've been in earth with a lot of those conversations with beneath earth. But I know, you know, you guys, you definitely brought some awareness to our platform, right? Yes. And we appreciate y'all for coming on. You know, if you ever, you got something going, you're trying to get something out, research to what not. Or if you wanna tell the masses, this is the channel to come on. You know what I'm saying? And I can even do your little press run too. I know a lot of people get you going. If you really trying to get it out there. But you guys been great, man. Thank you guys, okay? You're welcome. Thank you for having us. God bless you, we love you. We love you too. Another great segment of Boss Talk 101. And we out.