 Over the last hundred years, we've forgot a lot about what builds our bodies. Here's a big one. Exercises are skills. Treat them as such. What does that mean? The better you can perform an exercise, the more you'll get out of it. It's not just about working out your back, making your legs sore, getting a pump in your shoulders. It's about perfecting the skill of the exercise. Practice them as such. You'll get better results, less injuries, build more muscle, and more and more body fat with this attitude. By the way, the bronze era lifters understood this. That's why they were able to lift tremendous weights at low body weights. And of course, this was all before steroids or even supplements. So learn from the wisdom of the past, treat exercises like skills. Speaking of bronze, I imagine that a lot of those lifts that are quote unquote unconventional now were just sort of abandoned because the skill part of it was a little bit higher, let's say, than just some of our conventional compound lifts. Even now, we're more prone to doing machines and things that are a bit more easily accessible. 100%. So here's what's interesting about what you just said. If you pick two exercises, and let's say one exercise has a value of 10 in terms of its ability to build muscle and strength and bolster the body. And let's say the other exercise is a five in that same regard. However, the 10 exercise, it's going to take you some time to learn. It's going to take you some time to perfect. Initially, you're going to get better results off the five because there's a very short learning period. So a good example would be like a leg press versus a barbell squat. If I took two groups of beginners and I only ran a test for, let's say, four weeks or eight weeks, maybe even 12 weeks, and I compared the results of a leg press to a squat. In fact, in the beginning, the leg press might actually outperform it. And or at the very least, it'll probably be equal. But what we don't see is as the person, as the group continues to perfect the skill of the squat, the value of the squat continues to grow and they get better results over time continuously over time. So it's 100 percent. Why is that? Why is that not factored in when when fitness professionals discuss exercise selection, why is skill acquisition not factored into that conversation? We always, we tout these studies that are six to 12 weeks long and oh, this one more muscle activation, this one in this short period of time. But nobody talks about the the benefits of something that is difficult to learn how to do as far as the adaptation process and the total amount of muscle and strength that you'll build over time. Why is that not factored in? I think it's it's all forgotten wisdom is my opinion. I think we I think we have. And I think the market, I don't think it's maybe the measure, the consumers been I think that we've catered too much of our workouts in the way that we conduct training too much to to what the expectations are to the actual consumer coming in and their desire to change their body's composition and and to also alleviate some of the barriers in terms of like them actually like stepping foot in the gym and like getting them consistent. And so we've sort of weighed that way heavier, which I understand because that's that's a monstrous task to get somebody to even want to keep doing this is like a part of a practice that they're going to do for their health. But yeah, I think it's it's it's one of those things like we need to revisit that because it is it's such a different mentality and it's something that like if you can establish like a higher skill level and of an understanding of these types of exercises, what, you know, that's going to do for you long term greater so that any of these other exercises that we've been using. Yeah, well, let's break it down for a second. Learning a skill of a lift, let's say you do a one arm bent press. It's an old school exercise. Nobody does anymore. You go to try to do it. Those of you that are watching who are experienced have probably never done one. So you're going to go try and do it. It's going to be really hard. You're not going to be able to lift much weight. So you have to kind of learn the skill of the exercise. Now, what's happening in that process? Your central nervous system is adapting. Your muscles are adapting to this new movement and they're adapting the ways that they're not used to. It's very novel. So you start to get tremendous benefit through the acquisition of the skill itself. Then when you started to master the skill, now you move to the next phase, which is now I could push the resistance. I can add weight to the bar. I can make myself stronger and continue to perfect the skill now with heavier weight. The entire process resulting in a body that's changing. Now, the problem is that people have forgotten that exercises are skills. I'll take it way back to the most basic, running, running. Everybody, people who start running today, nobody thinks themselves. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to lace up some running shoes and then I'm going to go like, I'm going to go practice running and really relearn how to run. Because the last time I really ran a lot was when I was 12. Nobody does that. Everybody goes, I'm going to put my shoes on and I'm going to just go run, even though I never run. I'm going to go run until I'm tired. And so what you end up with is terrible technique, terrible running form, high rate of injury and a low rate of results. It's not just a high rate of injury. So as I'm talking about, you know, practicing exercise like a skill, I think it's kind of, it's more obvious that you're going to reduce your risk of injury by doing that. But what's less obvious to people is they actually get less results if they don't do it that way. Because a barbell squat done properly has a tremendous amount of value. A barbell squat done improperly has very little value in terms of results. And then of course the injury risk. Now it has to be a bit of kind of like a bell curve though, right? Because I mean, our, our, our buddy, uh, Steve Cook made a comment on the discussion that we had about, you know, the dead lift of the squat being like a king while exercises. And I think he put snatch in there. Like why is it was a snatch? It was a clean. It was a clean to press. Clean to press. That's right. It was a clean to press. So Olympic lift, right? So it was an Olympic lift in there. And, and there's some truth to that, right? Like if you, if you can do that movement and continue to do that movement as, as you made incredible benefits, but that the, I think the skill to, in order to be able to do that movement is so high that the risk is, is too high for most people. So where, where would you say like those exercises? I mean, it'd be cool to create some sort of a, a graph so people could see like what we're talking about when we, we talk about these exercises being the best because of that. And then we add in something like skill acquisition. It's like, okay, well, if it was just the highest skill ones, then you would say things like a clean and press or a snatch or movements like that, but then at one point there's diminishing returns because of the risk profile of it too. So how, how do you have to be appropriate? It's gotta be appropriate. Like you're, you know, a clean and press or a snatch. Yeah, but the problem I don't like with that statement sounds that like there's a lot of people that don't think a squat or a deadlift is appropriate for them. Yeah. No, because so I, I hear what you're saying. So a squat and a deadlift would be a prerequisite before you ever attempt a clean and a pressure or a, or a, or a snatch. So they are prerequisites and there's levels of exercises that, you know, could I take the average, you know, 40 year old and teach them how to do a clean and press? Maybe, maybe not, probably not. If they've never worked out, they've never practiced, they've never really trained their bodies that way. It might never be an exercise that they could do. I could take the average 40 year old though. So long as there's no major injuries, stuff like that. And eventually get them to squat, eventually get them to deadlift, eventually get them to do things like suitcase carries and farmer walks and overhead carries and stuff like that. Yeah. So it's gotta be appropriate, of course. I mean, I agree with you. I'm just trying to find the best way to communicate it to the audience that, you know, let's say avoid squats and deadlifts because of that reason, but don't, and here we are making the case for, you know, it's something that is a high skill, how important that is for the gains that you can get from it. Yet we're also saying, well, then I'm not encouraging you do a, you know, clean and press because it's too difficult. I don't think that I would discourage anybody from, you know, working their way towards that is like a pinnacle objective and in terms of like what we started the podcast out with, like to be able to practice and learn a skill, you place these, these achievable skills there first. So you do have to have the prerequisite. You do have to build your way up. You have to build up the support system, the stability, the type of mobility, the type of, you know, fast twitch power and strength to even move, you know, that kind of a weight in it with that kind of acceleration. So you have to kind of segment that out and like plot where those, those first objectives are. And so I think that like in terms of like your base exercises that we always talk about with your, your back loaded squats, your bench press, your overhead press, you know, bent over rows, like, you know, your sort of staple exercises, those are like a real solid way to build like overall strength and have a solid foundation for you to then start to then put your eyes towards an even higher goal of this like pinnacle of like a power move like that. And I just, I think it gets skipped like these like major lifts get skipped. Yeah, look, here's the bottom line. Not everybody's going to want to accomplish the most challenging, skillful exercises. That's fine. I don't care about that. What I'm saying is approach all exercises like skills, take the most basic exercise, a curl, treat it like a skill. It's not just you're working your biceps. It's a technique. There's a skill to the curl, perfect the curl and you'll get better results, perfect the shoulder press and you'll get better results, perfect the leg extension, the leg curl. I don't care what exercise at the point of this is view exercises as skills, go to the gym to practice those skills. Don't go to the gym to work out. It's very different mentality. If I'm going to the gym to work out, what I'm thinking is I want to get my chest sore and tired and I want to sweat. If I'm treating exercises like skills, I'm going to say, oh, I want to really practice my bench press, my incline press and a cable fly. Okay. I want to practice the technique of those exercises. That's going to get you better results. You guys know this. Look, if you, if the average person went to the gym and said, I'm going to practice three exercises today and get good at them and they just did that every time they went to the gym versus I'm going to go to the gym and try and get a workout and sweat and get sore. Who's going to get better results? Yeah, the person perfecting and practicing skills. This is what the old time lifters understood. They did not look at an exercise. They saw the byproducts as side effects. Like, wow, you get a really strong back when you do that exercise. You get really well-developed core when you do that exercise, but that was more of an observation after the fact. It was really about, I got to perfect. Yeah. The accomplishment was, yeah, perfecting the lift and being able to perform it then in front of people. That's right. That was, that was the, the, the pure objective of them training in that direction. Yeah. By the way, look, I like to use running as an example because humans, we didn't evolve really to have any physical abilities that make us like competitive in the animal kingdom. I mean, we're smart and so we're great tool makers. That's why we're at the, we're called, you know, the apex predators, but we don't have claws. We're not generally very strong compared to other primates. We're not super fast or, or, or, you know, we don't see it night. Like we're pretty useless, right? Like we get, we get eaten up and killed pretty easily. But one thing that we do have that we evolved with was our ability. This is true. I remember when I learned this as a kid, I thought this was amazing. Humans can outrun, not for speed, but for distance or out trek, almost any animal for distance. In fact, there used to be a famous race that was done. Maybe you could look the sub dog where they would take a human runner versus a horse and it was a really long distance and it was a toss up of who would win the horse or the human. Obviously the horse would take off faster, but they'd have to stop. They didn't, you know, they don't sweat like we do. They don't have energy preservation like we do. And oftentimes a human runner would win. And this is how hunter-gatherers actually hunt. They would, they'll injure an animal with a spear and then they just, just follow it and run after it until the animal collapses falls over. So humans, and if you look at our anatomy, we have these really big knee joints. We have this really muscular feet and mobile ankles and we have these really big glutes. We are literally designed to walk and run consistently for long distance. This is what we evolved to do. And yet if the average person goes and runs right now, they're going to get hurt. They're going to have injuries or knees are going to hurt. They're freaking out. We design all these crazy, you know, shoes and all this other stuff. Well, why? We just forget that we lose a skill. We stop running when we're kids and we lose a skill. And then when people go and try and run, they don't practice running. They go run till they're tired, which I mean, you do, if you don't know a skill and you're trying to get good at that skill, the worst thing you can do is do it when you're tired. Yeah. If you don't know how to throw a basketball, you're going to throw a basketball even worse if you're super exhausted and I tell you to throw a free throw. So this is this is just a great example of what I'm talking about. Strength training is no different. Every exercise that exists with strength training has a skill component. If you practice it as such, you'll get way better results. Yeah. Do you think that's because of the over glorification of like sweating and burning calories? Yes. That's because they both are always the objective. Yeah. Right. I mean, both lifting weights and running. I mean, I feel like that's the mindset that people get into. Like you said, nobody ever just laces their shoes and goes like, oh, I'm going to go try and practice. Imagine if sports were played like that, like, obviously with a sport, there's an objective, you know, you got to win the game, make the most points or whatever touchdowns. Imagine if you went to play a sport and the coach was like, just go until you're as tired as possible. Like, don't worry about anything. I don't know. How do I throw the ball? No, no, no. Just throw it. Keep throwing as hard as you can. Throw it until your arm falls off. Until your arm falls off. Like, how shitty of a game would you play? I feel like there are coaches. I was going to say, I'm sure it's been tried a few times. Yeah, I'm sure it's been tried. Those coaches don't go very far. Oh, no. Yeah, their team is not going to perform well. That's for sure. I think so. I've were you guys like this? So I was like this when I when I got into lifting, I was already like that. And I know I attribute that to playing sports as a kid is like you learn like, you know, when you're learning how to play any sport, how to throw a ball, how to kick a ball, like how to catch a ball. There's there's a technique to it. And and like learning that is so is so so you were really careful about it. Yeah, totally. And on that thread, like I think that's where the disconnect was for me as a trainer was because I always had that mentality of like, well, I want to learn, you know, how to hold my body, how to like make sure like the actual leverage and everything is like on point, like the way I'm moving matters in this position, like a lot of people that don't have that kind of a background of like being real disciplined about all those little nuances of how they move their body, it's just like, let's just get the thing up, you know. And so it's like, and you have to like, really start stepping back and realizing like your average person needs a lot of steps before that to then understand that this is this is a practice, a drill in a sense of learning like you have to be able to control your body in such a way that this is going to be way more effective. Yeah, I when I first started working out, it was this, this is how far it went for me. It was just how do I make this exercise, how do I get this exercise to feel it in the muscle and trying to work because my initial introduction was bodybuilding magazines and bodybuilding books. I didn't learn that exercises were skills like I'm talking about now until I started to read about powerlifting because power lifters do this, right? They don't care where you feel it, I don't care if you feel it in your glutes or whatever, like, can you squat the most weight? So for them, it's all about leverage and technique. Yeah. And when I studied power lifters, when I was much older, I was, you know, I started working out of 14, probably around 18 or 19 that I started diving into like powerlifting technique. That was a mind blowing to me, mind blowing. When I started doing that, the gains started going through the roof from that. Whereas up until that point, it was just about how do I make it so that I can make it, I can feel it in this particular, which isn't totally terrible, but it isn't as good as, you know, as what we're talking about right now. So I missed out on the loading and trying to get maximal strength. But I did do the technique thing really well, which is kind of funny. If I would have figured that also lifting heavy back when I was younger, I probably would have seen a lot more gains than what I did. But I definitely came in with the attitude of like, I mean, I was so extreme in that direction that I used to love to go lift weights when I was all shredded and looked all good next to the guy who was lifting crazy way and I lift a tenth of his weight, but looked like I was stronger or looked better than that person because that's where my mind. That's so funny how you how you flip it and feel good about that. I was the other guy. Yeah, I'd like to lift next to the bigger guy and lift more. Yeah, no, because you know when you're in the gym atmosphere, I can see the value in either, right? Right. In the gym, like everybody, you look at the buff guy like rarely. I mean, maybe if you're into lifting really heavy or a power lifter guy, you might go like you're more impressed with someone's weight. But I think that most people look at the bodies and go like, Whoa, that dude's really impressive. So I'd be in there with my wife, Peter, take top or whatever. They call them wife pleasers now, by the way. Is that true? Yeah, they're trying to change the name. That's not true. It's already gone. Nobody likes ESG got a whole of them. Of course. ESG made its way into Haines too. Today's program giveaway is maps strong. If you're interested in winning, leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it, subscribe to this channel, and then turn on your notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments section. Now we're also running a sale this month. Maps anabolic advanced is 50% off. If you're interested, click on the link at the top of the description below. Alright, back to the show. Do you by the way, yes, did you guys watch that video that I said you guys on with crazy Patrick, you know, people are not aware of the insanity of this. So for people to understand ESG stands for environmental social social governance governance. That's what it was. And so this is an organization comprised of some of the largest investors and companies in the world. And they give you a score based on your, you know, what you do for the environment and, you know, what you could do for inclusivity and stuff like that. By the way, judged by them. So there's no like real objective, you know, clear, you know, metrics or whatever. And that score will get either get you more money from investors or less money from investors. So if you have a terrible ESG score, it's harder to get money. By the way, the total amount of us, I think companies or investors that the amount of capital that they have who are part of this ESG is 88%. Well, yeah, almost 90% of the S&P 500 companies, you're looking at almost $70 trillion worldwide, something like 400 trillion or something like that. And so this is a way for governments and, you know, big players to influence companies that doesn't have anything to do with the consumer. So in other words, in the old days, you start a company and you either did well or didn't based on whether or not your consumers buy your product not. Now you have to add on top of that. Am I what's my ESG score? Because otherwise I'm not going to get enough money or they're going to fire me or the board of directors is going to demote me or whatever. It's really crazy. Do you think it's rooted in good? No, I think they use good as a guy's. It's a it's a it's clothing they wear to sell it to the public and to companies and to sort of appear a certain way. When in fact, because I I would I would think if you know it sounds good, like it sounds like they're trying, you know, but if you go look at in terms of where money's been allocated towards any kind of environmental or kind of like initiatives that they talk about, it's miniscule. So for me, like that's what it boils down to is like you can say all the cool things you want. But if if what really has happened is just a pure manipulate, here's how you know, OK, Elon Musk, who before he started speaking out and sharing his opinion, he's company like Tesla would had a great ESG score. I mean, it's the first major battery operated car innovations towards reducing emissions and helping the environment. Then he comes out and I guess he ruffles feathers. Tesla has a ESG score that's lower than the other major car manufacturers and lower than BP, British Petroleum, an oil company. Yeah, how does that make sense? Yeah, how does that even how does it even make sense? It doesn't. What it is is a way for because with markets, global control mechanism with markets, it's like if you're a government, it's hard to control companies and markets. All you can do is legislate, but you can't go in and directly tell them. So what they did is it created this kind of like this this this category. It's like a credit score, if you will. And now they get they can punish or reward companies, whether or not well, it's up to them basically. And so some people might say, well, what's wrong with that? Well, markets aren't perfect, but I trust millions of consumers more than I would a hundred very powerful people because you know, it's easier to have a hundred corrupt people that has a million corrupt consumers or whatever. There seems to be a bit of a backlash happening, though, right? So you I saw McDonald's came out and said that they would no longer be promoting it or talking about it. Now, there's also that they might be just saying that and then still trying to you know, they might have just saw the way the culture is shifting. And yeah, yeah. And you saw the article that Patrick David shared about LinkedIn that came out and said like the, you know, the DEI and CEI scores are hurting your companies and stuff like that, which is all related. Yeah, it's crazy to me. It's like, what was the I don't remember what that diversity, inclusive, inclusivity, no, initiative, initiative, right? Yeah, that was crazy because it would give a score to a company based off of like the physical appearance of their boys, women, how they identify Mexican. Yeah, like that's crazy. You know, not merit, just how you look. This is so in itself racism and sexist, which is so crazy to me. Those are your guiding descriptions. You know, forever, governments or people who wield power hate markets. It's always been that way because with markets, you don't have the power to tell companies what to do because the markets kind of determine. So they've always hated markets. Always always been that way. Anytime a dictator takes over, it's one of the first things they do is shut down markets and take over companies or power or find a way to, to, you know, control them. They hate them. They hate them. This is one back kind of backdoor way of doing it. And again, markets aren't perfect at all because obviously consumers, I mean, you know, we know what we want. We don't know what we need type of deal. But greed will catch them. But yeah, but you know, I have faith that greed will catch him. I, you know, I heard Justin talking before the podcast. I think he's the only one besides me that watched the documentary on telemarketing. Oh, yeah. Telemarketing on HBO. So it was great. Honestly, I didn't even I thought it was a mockumentary because these the people in this documentary are such characters. It's almost like a crazy version of the office. But even crazier, right? Like even crazier because people like doing drugs and like so basically it's it's this whole group of like ex-cons and you find out, you know, through this whole documentary, why like all these like ex-cons are kind of getting hired for this telemarketing job, which to be very honest, it's a brilliant like crazy scheme and hustle that they came up with. But really like so so their whole thing is to basically sell donations, just donations to police organizations and and and basically like to get a sticker that they can put on their car or some kind of validation for that. I think everybody has. Yeah, most people kind of remember that, right? And it and it extended from that. It was even like you'd get a follow up call if you donated anything by now a fire, like a fire organization that wants like, you know, the same type of donation and then like paramedics or whatever. They just had you kind of on a list indefinitely from that. What you find out is like how much it was like it started out as like 20 percent. They were actually 10, 90, 10, 10. Yeah. So 10 percent. 10 percent was only actual firefighters or the police 90 percent were the company who was collecting it and they ran out. They did this for like over a decade and were extremely successful doing it. And the one like hiccup where people would like, oh, where is this going? Like people started to get kind of like, you know, savvy and and realized that like this is like some other company. They're not the actual police I'm donating to. And so they actually went through the lengths of creating a new LLC that had like police officer in the title so they can then say that they were like the police asked for money and then say that 100 percent of the money goes to goes to the police officer. Yes, association. Yes. So they literally get caught up from greed, bro. I mean, they were they were killing it at the 90, 10 split. And and it was. How did they get in trouble? So here's the way I feel right there. I mean, they were totally misdirected because I'm looking at it. I'm thinking if I'm the police, you know, if I'm let's say the police officers union or whatever, I'm like, well, we're getting something rather than that's how they got away. It wouldn't cause that's why they got away with it for so so long because 10 percent was still millions of dollars. And then they get fined or whatever they get slapped like a thirty five thousand dollar fine and like, OK, and they pay it, but then they wouldn't change and they would like ramp it up again. And then they get like a five hundred thousand dollar fine. And then they ramp it up again. Plus they got the cover of, let me guess, we're employing ex-cons. OK, in their careers. So the brilliant part about that now check this hustle, right? So they they all have to make numbers. And this is like, you know, in order to have the job. And so they actually like targeted areas where there was like no work and like there's a lot of like ex-cons. And and so it was like, this was their only option. And so they're like hustling to get these sales. And if they weren't making their numbers, they did a dirty trick. They'd like call up their parole officer and say they weren't working, say they weren't working. And so they take them and and basically it was like a threat that was always there for them to like pull if they weren't like producing. Oh, wow. Isn't that that's so dirty. So if you're not getting enough donations, like, well, it looks like you're not doing it. Dude, and then they found out people are doing drugs and things. And they're like, fine, whatever, just make the numbers. Wow. The guy that was doing the documentary was like a heroin addict. And he was like, he was just like crushing. It's a great doc because during this whole process, one of the guys had this idea of like, I'm going to I'm going to document in this. So there's like real footage of all the stuff. So it's not like just I have I can't believe that telemarketing works still today. I know. So crazy. I know. You have to be I tell you, you know what? No, you tell you what? If you look when you watch persuasion and you listen to the the script. Yeah. When it's when it's read, I mean, the guys who created it, right? They did. The guys who wrote it and wrote the scripts and the plan were brilliant. Yep. I mean, like the concept, the way you pitched I mean, the way they open the phone call is like, you know, like they they're in a town, right? And then there'd be like two fallen officers in the last year and they would like, they'll use that. Oh, yeah. This year, you know, two officers. Oh, yeah. So hit you right in your heart's drawing. I'm listening to my fuck. I'd probably give 35 bucks. You know what I'm saying? And so and then I've given money. Yeah, I've definitely given money before Courtney. Remember, she's the one that told me that she remembered she gave ten dollars. Like you got, you know, the same hustle out of it. And then they followed her up like three weeks later with the fire like the firemen's whatever, like association. You know, I call, you know, I'm going to be this full disclosure. Two reasons why I gave money. One is I have a huge supporter of law enforcement, but also two. I wanted the sticker. Yeah, because they also use that. Yeah. They were selling it that you would get at tickets. See, that's what I thought, which is I thought to myself like, a bit of a sticker in my car. That's what I mean. I mean, you think that you'd have to be a total sucker, but it's I mean, and then, you know, they start they're smart. They start you off at like a small twenty five or thirty five dollar donation. So you think, oh, man, twenty five, thirty five bucks to get a police sticker on my on my car and in my wallet that's going to potentially get me out of tickets. Like, oh, OK. You want to know who's relentless, relentless with calling me is the Red Cross. I donated blood. Oh, because what's your blood? What's your blood? Because I'm typo. I have typo positive. Like if I came down all the times you guys called me, I'd be dead. Apparently I got you suck all the blood. Apparently I'm still regenerating. So I didn't know this. So if you donate blood, you have to wait a certain period of time before you donate again, they have like a policy. But if you have type O, then you wait much shorter because you're the universal donor. I have like special blood, right? I got the blood that you could give to anybody. So as soon as I gave blood, I get a call from them. I swear to God, I'm not making this up. OK, honest to God, three to four days a week, three to four days a week. No, I swear to God, dude, with all your STDs, it doesn't it doesn't screw it up, you still add in. They're all screwed up. Oh, wow. Because I got two of them that canceled each other. Yeah, that's my theory. That's your theory. What a shitty way to find out, right? You donate blood. You can't donate again. Yeah, sorry. I wonder how often that's happened. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That would be a horrible, like a shocker. Yeah, so that's it. They call me all the time. It's pretty crazy. Speaking of funny stuff, the comments. So I came in sick, right? Had a fever, came in, recorded an episode and the comments. Sales are up. Hey, hey, sales are so bad for you. Like, oh, my God. Hey, well, first off, I'll buy a couple of programs. First off, people were treating it. I got some comments on there, like people are treating it like I like. I went to work and like, you know, like I'm like saving your soldier. Yeah, like, man, you came in and power grew. And you really, you know, for a second, I felt proud of myself. I sat in a chair. People like forget or something. You know, like, I swear, dude, like people are so soft now. I guess that's like a badge. I'm like, I really almost, I did almost as much as I would have done at home, except maybe a little less talking. Such a savior. Yeah, like, man, you were so uncomfortable. You powered through, you know, like my partners maybe come in. You guys didn't get enough. You guys are the ones that should have gotten the company, right? You guys sat next to me. Nobody was breathing on you. Yeah, I know. But people were like, you look so sad. I'm telling you, bro, we had higher sales on the last two days because of that. So everybody felt bad because I'm convinced we got some charity that's hilarious. No, by the way, the reason why I was talking so quiet and sad was, yes, I was sick, but also because I was, if I knew if I pushed my voice out, I'd start coughing like crazy. So I had to talk like this whatever. I know you still it's still lingering a little bit, a little bit, just a leftover congestion or whatever. One of the one of the nastiest ones you've had in a long time or what? It's up. It's it's good. It's pretty good. I would say it's like it's a top 20. You know, I got sick or whatever. I've had some pretty bad ones. I look back at the text from last week. It sounded like it was the worst. Yeah, it was. Well, if I count all that, you know what? You know, the worst was calling you out. It was dramatic. The worst one was when I was in Thailand, I got food poisoning. That was bad. I remember that. That's the only time I ever thought about bad. Bad food poisoning has to be up there with one of the worst feelings ever. If you get it really bad, really bad to where it's like you cannot you can't take water down. You can't have anything because it comes out everywhere. Well, you know what part I didn't know about until that had the first I've had it twice like that really bad that that I didn't realize was like would be so awful is when you just everything is out of you like that. You're you're so weak and frail, feeling that laying on a bed hurt me. Everything. Yeah. Like everything felt hurt and so uncomfortable. So like you're so sick. You're so exhausted and tired, throwing up and you can't even lay in the bed and feel covered because the bed feels like you're laying on rocks. It was such a weird, weird, weird feeling. My favorite part of that whole thing is right because this is when Jessica and I first started dating and she surprises me and buys these tickets to Thailand. She got a great price for them. By the way, we figured out why it was a great price because we had a 24 hour layover in China. Anyway, fluid chicken. Let's say what? And you flew chickens. It's like Indian Joe's temple. Yeah, we flew in a great deal, honey. Yeah, we took a boat. No, we inflatable. Before we leave, I'm like a little unsure, right? So I'm like, I'm like, Thailand, I'm like, am I going to get sick or she's like, oh, come on. She's like, I traveled the world with Cirque and you'll be fine. Nobody gets, you'll be cool, you'll whatever. Of course, I get freaking hell of bad food poisoning when I get there. But I hallucinated. That's I never had a fever to where I actually I saw shit crawling on the walls, dude. I was tripping out. It's not even the cool kind of hallucinating. No, not the fun kind. No, it was the bad kind, dude. And I'm in a Thailand hotel and I'm like, oh, God, this is brutal. Did you lose your, did you lose taste and smell at all? This go around? No, you didn't lose any of that stuff. Katrina says she's, you know, funny, like day four or five she did. So later. Yeah. Yeah, I thought she was fine when we were out in Yosemite. And in fact, I had to tell her she was going to, we were my best friends. Like, hey, we're going to get up at five o'clock tomorrow morning and we're going to go do that six mile hike or whatever with that. And Katrina's like, OK, you know, we'll play it by ear. But I think I'm feeling better. And I'm like, I don't think you should do that. Is she worse now right now? Yeah. Oh, yeah. But like just fatigued. She's really fatigued. And then the taste, smell thing, all for her. So yeah, I got to do more stuff at home. Yeah, yeah. She don't she don't do so well, bro. And she's she's not feeling well. Did you say you put her in the room for like a second? Yeah, yeah, for an hour. So when so when I first got COVID, right, I was the first one of our family. I was early too, very early on when everybody was still fucking scared of death, right. And, you know, she locked me in the spare master suite that we had at the other house and like, you know, lice all right by the door. So any time I touched the door handle, she sprang, sprang behind me and like just over the top, bro, and locked me in there for like seven days. I remember you were not liking it. Yeah, seven days I was locked up in there. So sure as shit, she gets sick this time, right. And so I tell her, I'm like, hey, we're going to have to quarantine you. I don't want Max to get this, you know what I'm saying? We don't want Max sick, right? And she's like, yeah, yeah, I know, I agree. She's in there for one hour, dude, one hour. I'm out there doing so with our son, cleaning the kitchen, making dinner for him, doing the laundry from our trip and so that. So my phone's not on me. I come in like maybe after an hour or so that, but check on her. So I'm going to go check on her, see how she's doing. And she's like, how come you don't have your phone on you? I'm in here locked up all day. I'm like, whoa, dude, I'm going to do this, that and so that. She totally apologized afterwards. It was hilarious to see her like that. Cause she's never, I remember you should have like called us and we could have got you like some zombie makeup or something. She's like, oh, it's happening, I'm changing. Well, you've been in here for one hour. I said, I was in there for seven days, like do your time. I remember you, you were all very confined because you were texting us when you were locked, you know, you were in that room and you're like, oh, it's killing me, man. I hear Max playing out there. I can't walk outside the room. I'm locked in here. I've watched everything on Netflix. Oh, God, I tell you why it's, it's funny. That's way brutal. It, it's probably one of the worst parts about it was that was the isolation. I thought it was like really, really bad. It's just interesting how like we're such social creatures until you are four. And there's something about like hearing it too. Like I bet if I was like on some retreat where I'm supposed to be by myself or I thought it'd be like meditative and I could read and it could be choosing to be alone. Is that the same as being? Yeah, that's the part that makes it like so terrible. It's like, I'm in there and I can hear everything else going. I'm like, this is fucking terrible. The pertain to have fun on purpose. Oh my God. Yeah. He Max did something for the first time. He was juggling. This is crazy. Oh, this is so crazy. Speaking of kids, speaking of kids. So my oldest cleaned out his room because he's going to be going out to college. Oh boy. How much did you cry? I'll be empty nester. I'll be driving him up to, you know, taking him to school to help him move in over the weekend. So I sat, you know, he came up for dinner, got the last of his stuff, right? And then he went to his mom's house and I sat in his bed, dude, and totally just flat. Just go, I just went through the, yeah, I remembered him when he was little, brutal, growing up. I remember, oh, and I'm just sitting in his room, just feeling so sad. Best and worst part about it? Best, I don't know if I could, I mean, best one less teenager in the house is probably good. I mean, that's going to be positive. It's also going to be positive. Like your son made it. He's a very smart kid, right? Of course. No, no, no, no. All joking aside, it'd be way worse. He's 18 and he's like, hey, I'm going to be here for another 10 years because I don't have a job or fucking I'm a dummy. That's the Italian way that you sure you want to leave my allowance. Yeah. So best and worst, that's, of course, I'm proud of him. I'm very proud of him. And he's, you know, he's going to go off and to grow and learn. That's awesome. Worst is, man, you're, that's it. That's it. Like the time you spend, what's that statistic? That one hit me 90% of the time you'll spend with your kid happens before the age of 18, zero to 18, zero to 18 is 90% of what you will spend. Or it was like even higher than I remember. I have it in my phone because it like hit me so hard. Yeah. I mean, you're always going to be there. You're always obviously a part of it, but it's not like it. Like it was when they were little. So it's just, he's going to be out. He's going to be out on his own and now I'm going to be, I remember when I moved out, I was older. I was 21 and I remember my, my mom calling me every day. This was for like the first month. She'd call me every day. How are you doing? Whatever. And she would cry every day. Oh my God. And, and I was, you know, as a kid, you're always like, oh, come on, mom. Like, you know, you know, like, I'm so I love you, mom. Whatever you get. Yeah. Right. Now I get it. Yeah. And also I get the whole like the parents like, you never call me. You never call me. My parents still say that to me. You never call us. You never call us. Now I'm apparently, because I know what's going to happen is going to be gone. If I don't call him, I guarantee he's not going to, I get it. You're out doing your thing. I remember how old were you when you went out, Justin? So let's see. I came, well, after I came back from college, I think I only stayed there for like a year. So it was like, I was probably, yeah, I was probably at 20. So you left when you were 18. Yeah. I was probably about 20. Came back and I left again. Yeah. What about you, Doug? I actually went to school locally. So I stayed with my parents during that time. To your 40, 40 year old version. 38. No, actually, tell us like 20, 21 or 22 when I graduated. Okay. So all the same. But I had to, I had to cover every expense, my school, my car, my everything. Yeah, back then the car was 25 cents. No, did your guys' parents, did your guys' parents make you do anything like that? So when you came back after college and so did you have to pay for everything? Yeah. They weren't. They weren't. Yeah, yeah, I paid for college everything. You have to. Yeah. That'd be weird. Hey, welcome back from college. A lot of people don't, bro. A lot of parents, a lot of parents, if you, they still take care of them. Andrew, how old were you when you were out? 17 for college and then came back and then I was out, got my apartment, I think 21, 22. How long were you back home with mom and dad after you came back from? Probably like six months. Oh, just six months. Yeah, I could, yeah. Now you were out early, right? 17. I tried to get out of 16. They called the cops on me. Found that out real quick. Can't run away until you're 18. I didn't know that was a fucking law. Stupid. I'll never forget coming down to the police station late to have been like, uh, my parents threw me out of the house and then they called the cops on me and said I was a runaway. Um, I'm just here to let you guys know that I'm not. I didn't, you know, I didn't run away. They threw me out of the house like, and so, and they're like, yeah, sorry kid, doesn't work that way. It doesn't matter what they say. Hey, how frustrating that, because that's so illogical, right? As a kid, right? You're like, oh, you're like sitting down there. Like, hold on, let me get this straight. You kicked me out. Yeah. And then you call the police on me because I'm out of the house. Can you please explain this? Yeah. I remember that and then the, the lecture from the cop when they actually came down and arrested me and stuff. And I remember him telling me like, and I remember like crying, right? Uncontrollably and being like, but nothing is, nothing is from them. My, I bought my bed. I bought my TV. I bought my bed. She's stuff. Yeah. And then I remember him being like, yeah, and they can light it all on fire and you can't do a goddamn thing. And, and like, or they could sell it. They can give it a, donate it. This is tyranny. And I'm like, what? No, they can't. Like, yes, they can. Until you're 18. Everything you think is yours is technically there. I'm like, dad, this is some fucked up bullshit. A lot of your political attitude makes sense. I live in America. This is communism, bro. This is communism. This is bullshit. Oh, you mean our stuff? Yeah, this is our stuff. Now you get it, right? So yeah, I know. I tried to be out like 16 and then when I was 17 in, because I was young for high school, so I was going to graduate high school at 17 before I turned 18, my parents realized like, I was like, just, I was on a mission to not speak to them for like the last year of like living there. Cause I was just like, okay, this is how long did you last, by the way, without saying a word to them. Dude, I lasted months. I really, yeah, I did. I last, I think that's, I think that's why they finally broke was because it was legit like that. Like he'll talk to us eventually. Yeah. Yeah. I think they really thought that. And I was just, I mean, I, I mean, you write notes. If you know how I am like, I'm like, I put my mind to something like I decided like that's, I was like, I'm not speaking to them for a year. That's the one thing I could do. It's the one power you have. Yeah. That's all I had. How did you communicate? You write notes? Like, no, I mean, I, if they, if they asked me direct quiet, it wasn't like, no, it was absolute, but I'm not engaging. Yeah. So we had family dinner every night. I'd just be nothing. You know what I'm saying? Versus I was a loud kid, right? I was loud talking, you know, like, so for me to make that switch, it was definitely challenging, but I absolutely had that attitude of like, I'm not speaking to these guys until, and when I'm out, you'll never see me again. I remember telling them that like when I, as soon as I'm 18 and I'm out of prison, I said, I'll never come back. I'll never talk to you. Oh man, I was so upset. And then towards the last like year of high school. And as I was when I was 17, I think they realized like how serious I was. And they really realized like, they called your bluff, but you weren't bluffing. Yeah. And so then I think they started to like loosen up. Then all of a sudden they were like, oh yeah, you know, just check in with like my curfew all of a sudden got extended and they started being all cool. And then when I was talking about moving out and looking for plays, my mom was like helping me look for places and stuff. So I was like, oh, OK, which was a smart play because who knows what would have happened if they would have fought me all the way till I left. I'm crazy like that, where I might be like, I'm never coming back. No, my mom called me every day, crying. Then when they would come visit, she would bring food like Tupperware's food. She'd do my laundry. She saw me vacuuming. She started crying. You didn't learn how to do laundry till Jessica, right? No, no, no, no. Before that, get out of here. I had to move out on my own. Huh? I had to live on my own. And when I was in, you didn't just buy new clothes every week. No, yeah. We're disposable clothes. Paper plates is a bachelor move for sure. Paper pants. No, dude, I had to learn on plates. I had to learn because I lived in Palm. Remember this is down in Palm Desert when I owned that gym. So I remember I went to the grocery store. I never washed clothes or did. I don't know any of this stuff. So I bought like 15 different detergents. Went down to the laundry, you know, laundromat and I sat there and I read the instruction. I looked at everything. I don't know what to do. Luckily, a lady next to me noticed and she's like, can I help you? So I never, I never done this before. She's like, here's the on button. What do I put in there? How much water? Like, how do I add to the soap? Like, what's going on? I would love to be a fly on the wall. So she helped me out. I had, I had a thought. I realized people lied. You don't have to separate your clothes. You go throw them all in. They come out just fine, everybody. They come out just fine. That's a sin. Katrina. So I had this thought the other day. I wanted to ask you guys because something happened. So hopefully you guys could come up with a thing. Is there anything that you swore you would never would do or didn't think could ever see yourself doing until you became a parent, then then you found yourself doing that. Do you know what I'm saying? I got to think about that. Can you think of something like that where like you're like, no, I was never I'd be like, never am I going to do that? Never. And then you become a parent. Then all of a sudden you catch yourself doing that or being that way. Can you think of a situation like that? I mean, I'm just a lot, I'm sure there's a lot of things that I can't think off the top of my head. What about you? I'm sure there's for a reason why this happened was I was and it was, it was literally like a just a natural react. I did it. And then like I caught myself and went, oh my God, I remember thinking seeing somebody do this when I was younger and being like, that's so disgusting. I would never do that. Like I'm never going to do that. And that is like seeing your, your kid, right? We're, we're in the hot tub, right? So just him and I in the hot tub were hanging out. And, you know, whenever he gets like a little booger nose, I just reach over there with your hands and you squeeze it, squeeze it out and then just throw it on the ground. I remember thinking like seeing that for the first time when I was like a teenager or a young kid, we're like, oh my God, it's fucking disgusting. I would never do that. And then finding myself just doing it without even like subconsciously, like you saw it. Oh, my son, I just get it and I do it. That's a good one. Isn't that like, how about this one? Have you done this where you see something on your kid's face or their hair sticking up? You lick it. Yeah, lick it. Let me wipe that off on my spit. Is it, you know, it's crazy about it or what I thought was so interesting about that moment where I caught myself doing that is that it wasn't like I had this where I stopped and went, oh, what do I do? You know, or should I do it or leave it? Yeah, you just do it. And then after the fact, you go like, oh my God, that was something that I said. Does Katrina have this device? Apparently it's popular with moms. Jessica uses it and I it's the most disgusting. It's the most disgusting. I can't even. So she has one. Yeah, it's called. What the hell? It's called a netty pond. It's a bulb. Is it the netty pond? No, the bulb is fine. It's the, it's the sucking one. Oh, yeah, it has a filter. It's got a, it's a tube and it's got a plastic tube attached to it. It's not a netty pond. No, bro. You literally suck with your mouth. Come on. The boogers have another name of this. I don't know, but it's like a siphon gas. Yes, it's called. Does your, does your wife use it too? Yeah, she uses it all the time. I think it's Frida, baby. Oh yeah, nose Frida, nose Frida. That's what it is. It's a nose Frida and Katrina does it to me. I cannot. Now the boogers don't go in. It doesn't, it doesn't, but it doesn't matter. It's just the action of it. Come on. It's the action of it that I cannot leave the room. I can't get behind it. I can't. Yeah, it's got to be a mom thing. It is. It's got to be Katrina has no hesitation to do it. It doesn't bother her. Oh, come here. But she's just, I can't even, I can't even watch it. It's talking about right now. I was making me. So that's weird, right? Cause I don't, I just did. I did the thing with my fingers. No big deal. Don't even think about, but watching you suck through this nose Frida. What the hell? And, and it is disgusting. Gross. I'll tell you what, here's what else is gross. We got an Amazon package to the day. Jessica opens it up. She's like, it's finally here. I'm like, what is that? It's this weird black tube. She opens it. And there's all these like metal weird looking, looks like a surgery kit or something. Like, what is that? She's like, oh, it's for popping pimples and stuff. I'm like, what? A popping pimple kit. Bro, bro. There's like 15 weird devices in there. Digs in to lift it up first and then like, okay. This is a thing. Yes, bro. This is a girl thing. A hundred percent. They watched too much doctor pimple pop. I swear. This is how you know we're primates. It's like when you pick the, you know, whatever the tics or lease or the lice, she gets, she's so excited. Take your shirt off right now. Yeah, honey. I'm like, hold on a second. First of all, you're trying to do you have two or three that they are always like, oh, this is like my well. And she would just like, there's always one like here on my back. And I'm like, dude, bro, listen, is that it? Yes, it's like a surgery kit. Yes, dude. It's actually that one right there. He has the same thing. It's the one in the middle pimple pop. It's called a pimple popper kit. Tool kit. I didn't even know. I did not even know this was a thing. It's gross. Well, it's only $14.99. Lucky you. I don't even know that pimples were that unique that you need 10 different tools potentially. I didn't either. She was so excited. We almost got an argument. She's like, no, take your shirt off and lay on your stomach. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that. She's like, for me, please do it. I want to do this so bad. So I laid on my stomach and she went to town and she's like, look at this blackhead. Look at this. I'm like, I don't care. What are you doing? You know, he's grown hairs. I can attack. Yeah, it hurts. Nasty. Okay. Let's change this up. Yes. That's the. Well, you guys didn't hear mine, but. Oh, yeah. What do you got? So typical. I did. I did go. No, you didn't forget. Did you? I didn't forget. For me, it was, it was, I had this like hard rule that like when Courtney was pregnant, like when, you know, she's going to go through the whole process. Like I was going to be like at the top part and like, you know, I'm here. I'm, I'm here for like comfort, whatever. Oh, upper body, upper body support. Like I'm not going to be like visibly like, you know, in the receiving end of it and all this and like through the whole hustle of the whole thing. And like we had a doula there and like she was kind of manipulating me and like kind of moving me. And then the doctor was like, oh, come here. Look at it. Like I'm there and all of a sudden I see the whole thing and I'm like, and then they had me cut the cord and they had me hold like all these, like the placenta and I'm like looking at all the stuff. I was like, I told, I told all of you, I wasn't going to do it. It happened. Oh, I remember that one too. Actually, it was a hustle. I remember saying that I wasn't going to do all that stuff and I did all that. None of it's, I thought it didn't, it didn't. Yeah. It wasn't anything like I expected. And the whole process, especially with Dahlia, because we did that at the birth center, it was just one of the most amazing experiences in my entire life, but the placenta delivering is always what the hell is that? It didn't want, I didn't need to see that. What is that? No, you know what I mean? I didn't need to see it. I know. Great transition. Have you guys had legions, new cookies? I love that commercial, Doug. That's horrible. You ate them. Hey, they're good. It tastes like nutrients. No, speaking of placentas, you know what else is I mean. Oh, great transition. Hey, listen, you ate all of them. That's just, you ate all of them. I did, I did. All of the cookies, they were good. So I don't, I'm not a big fan of the bars this much, even though I did eat some of those not that long ago, the cookies I like. I do like. So how many grams of protein is per cookie? I believe it's 10. Oh, no, 12 or 15, isn't it? I don't know. I think it's only 10. I think it's 10. Look up, Doug. Yeah. Look up legion, protein, cookies. So they're good then. You saw I stalled like all the rest of the protein powder in the back, like Everett's eating me out of the house of the MyStash. So he's like. Is he taking shakes? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, he's into it now. Like, is he way? Or is he doing the vegan way? Yeah. Yeah, he's doing way. Oh, they're the dairy family, bro. He's fine. I stand corrected. It is 15. Okay. Yeah. They say, well, that's a good amount. Yeah. 10 were terrible. And how many calories is the whole cookie? 260. That's not bad at all. So you can eat two of them and have a nice, nice. They're actually good. They are good. I like them because they're chewy. That's why I like them too. They're not like all crumbly and so that they're chewy. So they're good. I like that's not a big like protein bar fan of that much. And now I thought those were pretty good. So shout out to Legion for that one. What's the product that you use most of all of our partners most consistently? Is it the, cause I see you every morning. Is it, there's a lot, there's a lot of things that I use really consistent. I almost always have creatures of habit for breakfast. That's the one I see you using every morning here. Yeah. That's, I mean, I would say there's a lot of things I use every day. I use our sleep eight every single night. I use, I'm not with you at night. So I don't see it. So well, creatures of habit I use. I use my caldera stuff every single day. Magic spoon, like on a semi, like every other day or a couple of days I have magic. How regular do you eat the creatures of habit? Every day. Every single. Yeah. Pretty much like right now, like it depends. Like I'll be on kicks, right? So I've been on this kick of having oatmeal to start my day. And I noticed a difference when I do, I just feel better. It kicks, it actually kicks my appetite up. So I like it for that reason. So like I can easily skip breakfast and go all the way till like two o'clock and eat the first time. If I do that, I, I'm playing ketchup with protein. And so one of the first things that I have to do is, is be disciplined to make, and I'm not always going to sit down and make myself like a, you know, or order like you're doing steak and 12 eggs. So if I'm not going to do that, then a quick creatures of habit just add water with 30, 30 to 32 grams of protein. I also see, I see the editing team eating the creatures of habit pretty regularly too. I love it. Yeah. I mean, I really think my kid at out to park with, with that. I mean, it's, it was something that I did consistently when I was competing anyways was making my own version of it. So it was to be able to have it already pre-packaged and then, and to go. And I've told you guys too that I've messed with all like the cookie recipes, so they make pretty good high protein cookies. So I do that all the time too. So that's kind of a staple for us. So like if I had to like, because everyone knows I have a sweet tooth, right? So I, I probably toggle back and forth between the homemade creatures of habit cookies that Katrina makes and we keep in the refrigerator or magic spoon. And if I have those to have, like if I haven't ran out of a box of cereal and if I haven't ran out of my creatures habit cookies, that's good. Like I'm, I'm cool. I don't need, I don't, I don't need to go get like a sugar kick or something like that. It gives me enough of that sweet. And then I'm also getting a protein kick with it. So, but if it's not, then, you know, then I'm like anybody else. I was going to ask you, Adam, because I'm sure you read this. Did you see what UPS drivers are going to be making? Yes. That was on my notes like last week. Did you hear about this? No. So they just had their, they just, it was right before we, we all left. How much do you think UPS drivers make now? Well, they just had their union thing, right? So they fought for their wages. What do you think in terms of like a year salary? Yeah, yeah, yeah. For a full-time UPS truck deliver stuff, you know, I mean, I would imagine like 50 to 75. 175. Woo. 175 an hour for a hundred and thirty-five thousand a year for a driver. Yes. Wow. That's a full-time driver now going forward when their this contract falls off. So they're like, like they have their own union, right? Just like yours or somebody else. And they just had their big like renegotiation. And what was the, what were they paying for paid? It was like a 50% increase. Oh, yeah. It was a big jump. It was a big jump. So, so I have a little bit of a speculation on this. I think when self-driving cars become like a thing thing everywhere, the first places that we'll see them take over will be for deliveries, especially long deliveries. Well, the problem with UPS is who's going to take the package out and take it to the. Well, I mean, you have the self-driving car and then, yeah, you'll probably have to drop it to the house. Yeah, it'll probably drop it off. Well, they already have like the drone things that they've been doing for a minute, so you'll just have like a drone drop, drop in the front door with that. Oh, yeah, that's coming. And that I, I'm wondering if they were just like, of course, that's the first transition, like you're not going to risk humans in there. Like you're like, you're going to mess with drones flying packages where it's it might be like you have to meet up with the actual vehicle, right? So you got to like, you schedule it so it like parks and you got to go get your package from the back or something. I don't know. Yeah, that's I would wonder how they would do that without a human. But that's a, that's a tremendous salary. I had a big, that's a big job. Most people don't make a hundred grand a year. That's a hundred and seventy thousand dollars. Yeah. One seventy five was I saw it too. My jaw hit the floor. You used to have to be a district manager of 24 fitness. Make it weird. Like that too. You know what I looked up to? Like, what do you guys think like the average lawyer makes? Oh, there's a brand. Yeah. Okay. Let's just say there's killers. And there's what do you think the average top 10 percent of lawyers make? I would guess at least 200 grand a year. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's I would have thought way more than that. Five hundred percent of lawyers, almost like five. I would have thought half a million to a million, but it's actually no, it's like 180 to 250. Look at the law. I saw what the average lawyer made and it was like under 200, which I thought was crazy low. And then, you know, I was watching suits or Katrina's all into suits right now. And so I was looking up like what all the average stats were. And what do you got from me, Doug? He pulled it up. Yeah. So the median annual wage for lawyers was 127,000 in 2021. The lowest 10 percent earned less than 61,000. The highest 10 percent earned more than 208,000. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, but I bet it's exponential. Like the top 5 percent is probably a big jump. You know what I mean? I would guess Johnny. I mean, the top 1% are probably taking. But I just thought it was really interesting because it's it's most people think like, oh, doctor or lawyer, you're going to be rich. But you know what lawyer or grand a year, but people think lawyer. There's such there's so many different kinds. Like there's patent attorneys. There's trial lawyers. There's divorce attorneys. Like that'd be like saying doctor, average doctor. Well, there's general practitioner and then there's like a surgeon or, you know, so there's got to be a wide range in that sense. So everybody's put together. I mean, I still thought it was alarming. I just would have not. I would have never guessed after going to all that school. Yeah. And yeah, yeah, spending that much money. And so you're talking about an overwhelming majority of them that go through all that. Look up top 10 percent of entrepreneurs. There's something that might not be advertised much. What do you guys think? You think it'd be more than lawyers? Top 10 percent. As a top 10 percent. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's going to be way more than doctors. What do you think numbers going to be for top 10 percent of entrepreneurs? Half a million? Yeah, I think that's a good guess. Three hundred and something. Three fifty. Average. These stats are not so readily available. The problem with that is that one of the one of the benefits of being a very successful job of two. Well, one of the biggest benefits of being a very successful entrepreneur is all the tax benefits and the way you can structure your company for your livelihood. So there's probably a lot of entrepreneurs that have a say million dollar business. They take a hundred thousand dollar or eighty thousand dollar your salary is different than their assets. Yeah, but then they have structured their car and their housing and their travel and like so much of their like their life through the business. And so, you know, on a stat like that, it's going to it's going to reflect what they're paying taxes on. But in reality, they're they're probably benefit. I'm on a I'm on a website. I don't know the career explorer. And this is entrepreneurs can earn an average yearly salary of forty three thousand dollars. That's average. And then it says top level entrepreneur earnings, which is the 90th percentile. So top 10 percent, one hundred and thirty three thousand per year, which is skewed, though. I'm telling you right now, like if you if you are a an entrepreneur and you have a business that is that is clipping away at a half a million or a million plus a year, you're you would be dumb to pay yourself four hundred thousand dollars a year. You'd be much better paying yourself a low salary. That's a huge pool and structure. Plus what's in that pool? Like is it like, yeah, this is all am or yeah, anything. Exactly. Like like any type of business, I would assume would lump in there. Yeah. So yeah, that's kind of like yeah. That's you're not going to get the real number reported for that. It's different when you have a W two wage where you can go check. Like for sure, this is what this law firm is treating this person. So it's but an entrepreneur. There's so many more benefits. You know who makes a lot? Petroleum engineers. Have you ever looked up their numbers? That's a random thing to look up. Yeah. So why would you look up that? How does that? I remember I read an article. Doug looked that up. So like average petroleum engineer at one point was one of the highest paying jobs and these are people that figure out how to get more oil and you know how to work with oil and stuff like that. Apparently make a shit ton of money. 82 to 200 grand a year. Average. Average. Yeah, that's average. Here's the UPS thing. So they'll make an average of $49 per hour, which works out to be about $102,000 a year. Yeah. But that's what they get. 50,000 in benefits, which includes health, welfare and pension contributions. Oh, you're also you're all. Yeah. But I think you're also are you averaging the part time people in there with that? No, this is full time. This is full time. So the fault, the 170 number is a little bit. It's like, oh, they're not getting $170,000 in like pure salary. Yeah. But pension plus benefit. I mean, it is. It's all it's all money in the Amazon or they I wonder how close they are to that in terms of what they offer, you know, their drivers and whatnot. All right. So I got a shout out for you guys. I don't think you need to shout out because he's blowing up at a nowhere all over Anthony. That. Oh, yeah. So I am not. I love his music. I'm not a country fan. I just not my favorite kind of music. I started to enjoy it a little bit when we went to Tennessee and we watched that live performance because when you watch it live, it's like totally different. And then all over Anthony is making the news and it's the lyrics that caught me. It's very soulful. It's like a bluegrass kind of vibe. He does a song. I think it's called Feeling Pretty Good. And then another one about I want to get sober. Oh my God. It's like, you don't get the chills. It is like he is so pained and just so cute to see you come over to the light side to have you over here and she'll get the heavy metal guy too. So eventually it's all it's it is. It's all about the lyrics with country. Well, if that's where they got soul, that's where I'm going. So yeah, but he's great great music. I'm like, I said, I'm not a fan of that kind of music normally, but I saw Rogan shared him and then I've actually seen a lot of big pages actually share that thing with viral overnight. Organifi makes organic supplements for wellness, health and athletic performance. Right now they have this bundle that combines pure with a high performance pre-workout type supplement called peak power. Combine the two and get euphoric creative energy. And again, it's all organic. Go check it out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com forward slash mine pump. And then use the code mine pump and get 20% off. All right, back to the show. First question is from Johnny W. Branscombe. What can I do to get more road map veins? I have a lot of veins, but I want the ones in my forearms to stick out more. What should I do? I'm already sub 10% fat, take a pump and use sodium. Is there any way to get even more? Oh, is this a real desire? Yes, people love it. You want to be all veiny? Chicks love it too. Really? Yeah, especially if you're a nurse. How do you not know this? You have a nurse wife. Yeah, but they like the fact that it's easy to apply shots or whatever. But like, what's the other benefit is my thing? Like, what is it? She's lying to you. She's not even telling you, bro. I'm going to ask her. I think this is weird. I picked this because it's a weird question. Well, first off, people love it. It's just this person, the specific person who's already sub 10% body fat, takes sounds like pump supplements. I think what's worth trying to say uses sodium. I mean, no, there's not much else you could do. I mean, genetics plays a large role. Like I have, I have veins in my shoulders. Genetics, but the biggest role, genetics and then body fat percentage. I mean, you see pro bodybuilders on stage without a lot of veins who are lean as hell. And then you've got other guys who get the crazy looking varicose veins in their legs, which is disgusting. Yeah, so I'm robbing veins. Yeah, I mean, but generally it's getting lean, being well hydrated. Those are the two, the two main things. And the reason why people may find some veins attractive because you're right. I think women like some, but not a lot, right? You don't want the crazy looking ones is because it's it's just a sign that someone's lean. That's all just looks like you're shows off that you're at a decent. Yeah, I can't, I can't speak to why certain women like it or not. I know I've had plenty of comments from like nurses for that reason, like just because I think it's easy to find, right? The point that Justin made. Yeah, do you get really veiny when you try to? Yeah, I mean, I'm already, I'm naturally vascular. Oh, a little bit, huh? Yeah, no, like crazy. My when I get really lean, they'll they'll pop out everywhere. Yeah, yeah. So they definitely that's what's a weird thing. Like I used to when I would play sports or I get like really angry. I get this like two veins in my forehead and it was always would stick out. Like this doesn't really happen as much anymore. But interesting. Is this the kid right here? Is that's the question? Yes. Yeah, he's pretty lean already. Uh, and you see is he's got some vascularity. He's got the bicep vein and some forearm vein stuff. But, uh, he's already lean enough that he would, he would be. If he was a vascular person, it would be popping out already. Now, one thing that I notice just draw them on when I got really lean. If I get below, let's say 8% or 7%. Um, is that I noticed my veins will come out after I eat, especially for eight carbs, like almost within 15 minutes. I'll eat carbs and then within 15, oh, yeah, start to come out. Oh, big time. Yeah. If you know, if you're super depleted and lean like that, and then you cause I used to love that. I mean, you could, you would see it like happen within 30 minutes to an hour all of a sudden they start popping out. But yeah, I mean, you're there again, there's just like a level of like that you can actually control is the big thing is going to be if you already genetically or that way, and then getting really lean all the, the carb, the carb and water manipulation to try and look more vascular. That's all temporary. Yeah. So you do all that before you go out and then you do a BFR and your veins all throbbing, dude, let's take it to another level. You know, all the pump supplements and stuff like that. I mean, they might help a little bit, but I don't think it's going to make it, you know, a huge difference. Oh, that stuff is temporary though. I mean, imagine if you, if you want to be more vascular, you want to be more vascular all the time, you're not looking for a 30 minute fix. Right. I would think I used to work with that. I used to train some vascular surgeons. One of the more popular procedures that they would do that was, uh, not a like a prescribed procedure, right? Cause they would have to work a lot on people who were going to die and stuff like that. But they did some cosmetic procedures. One of them was varicose vein, uh, type of surgery where they actually go in and they would like, almost like kill the vein so that the person doesn't have varicose veins anymore. It's pretty crazy. Next question is from Dratella. How do you successfully exit out of overtraining? Will you gain fat if you go about it too abruptly? Should you treat it like a reverse diet, slowly, slowly easing out of it? No, no, no. The best way to get out of, uh, overtraining is to immediately cease your workouts. It is not a slow reverse out. If you slowly reverse out of overtraining, you're just going to be overtrained for much longer. The best thing you could do if you really are in a state of overtrain is to stop, stop workouts, stop everything. You can do some stretching, some walking, recuperative type stuff, and then let your body recover. Now, as far as gaining body fat, no, in fact, and I know this doesn't sound like it makes sense. Cause like, oh, you're burning less calories. No, the truth is, if you're really overtrained and then you rest. You build muscle. Yeah, you actually, you actually come back a little leaner. I actually, I actually think that this is one of the ways that I try and teach somebody to figure out if they are. It's like, okay, if you're stuck at this hard plateau, we think that you might be overtraining like crazy. Let's take like a week off, like fully recovers with that. When you come back, I want your volume of training to be cut in half. Don't change anything else. Let's see what happens. And if you build more muscle and or get leaner, right? You look better, feel better, get stronger over the next two or three weeks of cutting the volume in half, then that's a clear sign that you were overtraining. If you put on a bunch of body fat and you don't gain any more muscle, you don't get stronger. Maybe you weren't overtraining. Maybe there was something else going on. So this is actually one of the ways I think that you can tell if you're overtraining is by simply reducing the volume. You get in better shape. You get stronger because of it. Every time when I'm overtrained, I have less muscle and more body fat. When I get out of it, that's exactly what happens. I build muscle and end up getting leaner. In fact, when I would get people who are like, really, like I could really see like, oh, this is persons overtrained. They would always be shocked that doing less would, because they all expect to do less to feel better. People like, okay, I think I need a rest. I know I'll feel better, but they're always shocked that they get better results all of a sudden. Yeah. A lot of times my clients, it'll reveal it more effectively to them when they go on like a week long vacation. They don't actually train and then they feel so energetic and strong and like everything's working so amazingly like the following week. And that's such a clear indication, you know, that you're just doing too much. Listen, if your body has to choose to either survive or build muscle, it's going to try to survive first. That's its number one priority. So, and if you've been beating it up so bad, it's constantly thinking about surviving. It's not thinking about building muscle, simply reducing that volume and intensity and scaling it back or and or feeding the body appropriately. Now it gets the body to go like, oh, we're good. We're not, we're not struggling to live and survive. Now I can prioritize building muscle. The hormone profile that's associated with overtraining is a hormone profile that is anti muscle and pro fat storage, especially visceral body fat or trunk body fat. For the survival reasons, right? So the hormone profile that's associated with appropriate training is pro muscle and pro fat loss. So what are those two look like? Well, a pro or an anti muscle pro fat storage is high cortisol all day. Okay. Cause you should get a spike in cortisol in the morning, but then it should go down and be low at night. Well, somebody who's under chronic stress or overtraining has got cortisol that's just high all the time. It's insulin insensitivity. So you actually start to lose sensitivity to insulin. It's a reduction in androgen receptor density. These are the receptors that testosterone attaches to. It's lower testosterone. It's a lower growth hormone. So what's happening is your body is literally resisting building more muscle, because if you're overtrained and there's too much stress, the last thing your body wants to do is increase its energy demands by building muscle because in throughout all of human history, except for relatively recently, you wanted to be efficient with calories. And if you render a lot of stress, you wanted to even become even more efficient with calories. More muscle is not the way to do that. More muscle means you burn more calories. So your body is literally organizing itself in a way to make all your goals much harder to accomplish when you're overtrained. So you're going to store more body fat, especially around the midsection. You're going to not build as much muscle. Now, when you come out of that and you do it right and you rest and the best way to do this is immediate and abrupt. It is not a slow reduction. It is immediate and abrupt. That's the fastest way to get there. Then what will happen is a hormone starts to change again over time and your body starts to allow itself to have more energy demands by building more muscle and it allows itself to burn more body fat as a result because it doesn't feel so stressed out like it needs to hold on to everything. So and I know people that this whole calories in versus calories out, that calories outside of the equation can change dramatically depending on your lifestyle, but on your hormones and on what your body thinks is going to be beneficial for itself and being overtrained is not a great place to really have a lean, muscular, healthy physique. Next question is from Justin Liff's weight. Oh, he does. Oh, he doesn't. I am very hamstring and glute dominant. How do I make lower body movements more quad based, especially unilateral? You're blessed. Yeah, here's here's a here's an easy so rare. Yeah. And here's an easy way to do that. All Justin's are glute dominant. Yeah, apparently here's a easy way to do it. When you do your lower body exercises like squats, lunges, wear squat shoes, elevate the heels, elevate the heels a little bit. That'll increase the amount of knee flexion and extension, which is going to activate the quads a little more. So I typically don't recommend that to people, but that's one way to do it. Literally while you're doing your barbell squats, elevate your heels and your form will change to put more of the demand on the quad, step ups, lunges, leaning your chest forward, you know, feet lower on a leg press. There's a lot of different ways to by changing the angle for you to put more emphasis on the quads instead of the glutes. The easiest also, if you ever want to anybody who's listening, if you want to emphasize a body part, the easiest way to do it is to work that specific body part at the beginning of the workout. So at the beginning of your leg workouts, this is a great time to do quad isolation exercises first, which you normally don't see, but this will be a great time to do it. So leg extensions, sissy squats. Sissy squats would be a great one to start with. Yeah, do like two quad exercises first, then go to all your other leg exercises and you're going to get more quad development by doing it that way and you'll get less of the glute and hamstring development. Now for the reverse, obviously if somebody wants more glute or hamstring would be the same advice, right, is to prioritize that at the beginning of the workout. Next question is from Reese Hokianga. How to push yourself without a gym partner or hurting yourself? I think the gym partner thing is so overrated. Yeah, yeah, I think that's sort of the messaging that I would probably put out there is like, like what's what's the real value in your gym partner? Like what that you can't find yourself in terms of like, if you look at the right dose of intensity, the right dose for you individually, it gets muddy in terms of having like somebody there that's motivating you to kind of push past, you know, those natural signals your body is giving you in terms of like finding that sweet spot where you're going to actually adapt and build muscle versus just hammer yourself a bit too hard. That's the problem with our space is we value motivation so much. I hate that. I hate that argument. Like, oh, it's so much more motivating to my friend or my friend motivates me. It's just like, stop it. If you want this to be a lifelong pursuit for you, you've got to get rid of this idea that you need to be motivated to do the thing. Imagine if everything was like that. I know. I only do things I'm motivated to do. It'll never last. You know how much stuff I wouldn't do. Where's my reading partner? Yeah, I'm not going to read without my reading partner. That's why I can't stand it because it's just a, it's a terrible message and our space promotes it so much and we lean into it and so many, because it feels good. Fitness influencers want to be motivating. Yeah, it's going to give you this initial feel good feeling. But for there are listeners, like it's such a, it's a, it's a bad strategy. Like learn to be disciplined, learn to create habits and, and you're far better off doing that for yourself. Somebody is always suffering. If there's a, a partner workout, whoever is leading it is getting the most benefits because they're doing what they probably want to do or need to do for their body. And then the other person is suffering because it's not what is ideal for them. And even if that's what motivates you or the gym, eventually they're not going to be around. Eventually you're going to move. Eventually they're going to get married and have kids. Eventually it's going to happen. And so you need to start to learn how to create habits that you don't need anybody else. That doesn't mean that you can't have fun or meet somebody there. Yeah, I'm not saying, I'm not shaming somebody who has a workout partner. I'm just saying that we put too much emphasis on motivation and this need for other people to be a part of our workout. Let me put it like this, with workout partners. I have nothing, I have no issue with workout partners except for the following, okay? Imagine you're about to embark on your fitness journey and you know that this is going to be something that if I want it to be effective and real, I have to do for the rest of my life, okay? So I'm not going to do this for a month and then stop. The goal is to do this for the rest of my life. Now you got to go find a workout partner that's going to work out with you on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at four, whatever your time is, forever, okay? Good luck. First of all, there's almost nobody you'd want to see three days a week for an hour, forever, and depend on that type of consistency to show up, to work out, to want to be around this person. Like that's a tough, and nobody talks about this. This is actually kind of funny. Breaking up with workout partners, I've had people cancel gym memberships, because they don't want to break up with their workout partners, so they'd rather go to another gym. Yeah. Because then they, because otherwise they'd break up with the workout part and then they're worried about running into them at the gym when they work out on their own or whatever. I've had, I've only had a few workout partners that I, let's say I'd work out like relatively consistently with, and the breakup part sucks because then you got to tell them like, hey listen, you show up late every time or I just not really working type of deal and it's a friend or someone, you know, type of deal. Yeah, no, now here's the other part of this. The majority of people who are not getting good results is because they're not showing up. Not because they're not working out hard enough. Now yes, there are people who need to work out harder, but that's not the big problem. That's, it's a problem, but it's a small one in comparison to just showing up. So about this, like I need someone to push me, if you showed up and you just show up, then you're probably going to be okay. Well, now that we're done ragging on you for wanting a workout partner, to answer this question though, if you were trying to push yourself more, so in other words, increase the intensity in my workout without risking injury or hurting myself because I don't have someone, let's say, to spot myself, one of my favorite things to do is to choose a weight that's difficult for me. So let's say I'm doing a five by five, so I'm doing five reps. I choose a weight that is difficult, but I know I'm going to probably be able to get five because I don't have a spotter, so I don't want something I'm going to fail, at doing. And then as I get to the last rep or two, I slow the tempo down dramatically. Yeah. If you take somebody who does this kind of cadence where this is what a bench press tempo looks like for them and they're like, oh wow, this rep number three is easy. Oh wow, rep number four is easy. Now watch this. And you slow that last rep down completely. I mean, you could take that, that muscle to damn near complete exhaustion by, so and then, and you're moving a weight that you can comfortably, if you realize, oh, I'm not going to be able to get it up, you speed up the tempo and you rack the weight. Like this idea that you need to have these sets that take you to failure so much that you need a spot. And by the way, most people that even do that, do this wrong. Yeah. Like it was used to be one of my pet peeves when somebody would spot me and they do this. Come on, bro. Come on, bro. You got it. That was the angle I was going to go because immediately like rereading this question, it's like, you know, if you're testing yourself and you're going heavier than you normally do, you really have to know how to bail and you have to know how to like dump weight and you have to know all these ways of getting out of those situations and set up safeties and all that kind of stuff. There's a way to do that very effectively and there's a lot more machines, racks and things that have those available. So, you know, look, ask somebody or how to like set that up but even just doing a basic like squat, like you should, you should know that technique of being able to dump the weight and bail and not feel bad about like slam the weights. Listen, people don't hurt themselves working out because they didn't have a gym partner. They hurt themselves because they picked an inappropriate weight for what they were trying to do or they had bad technique or bad form. That's all. It's not because you didn't have a workout partner. It's because you're doing it wrong. That's it. That's the bottom line. I think I've seen more bad technique and form with a workout partner than I have alone. I'll make a bet right now. I agree. I don't know if there's any statistics on it but I bet you people get hurt more often with workout partners only when they work out on their own. Because you get somebody who they think it's a great strategy to push so hard to where you fail and get stuck. And when you do that, the body goes into this like, oh shit, get it off me. And then you try and help the weight up with every other muscle than the one you're really trying to work. Technique goes out the window. Yeah. And then it defeats the purpose of why you're doing the movement. And so, yeah, I've never been a big fan of the workout partner thing and most of the workouts that I ever worked out was someone else. I led the workout because selfishly, I want to do what I want to do. I'm like, I know what I need to do. I know how much I need to push today. I know how many sets I need to do of what. Like, so, okay, if you want to jump in my workout and follow on what I'm doing, that's fine. But, you know, telling my workout to what somebody else potentially needs is just not ideal. And you don't need that person to take you to, you can have an intense workout and not take every exercise to failure. I hurt myself with workout partners way more often than I did on my own. Trying to show off. You got a weight that you, oh, they'll help me lift it. And like, first off, a spotter on squatting. Terrible idea. The worst. You're going to get, you're going- That's where I really hurt my knee. Yeah. Yeah. Terrible idea. Okay. They end up moving you forward and the whole weight crushed me forward. Yeah. Spotting on, like a bench press. Everybody thinks that's a great idea. If you're picking a weight that you're afraid that you're not going to be able to get up with a spotter, your form's going to go out the window while he's spotting you or she's spotting you. So also, not a good idea. Spotters with dumbbells, that's an interesting one. You know, you guys ever do this where you're- I was a kid, we'd do like the dumbbell chest press. Of course, when I was a kid, you know, it was all about how much weight you could lift, type of deal. Yeah. Where they spot you on the elbows, you end up- Yeah, they push your elbows. Hit yourself in the face of the dumbbell. It comes in. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That ever happen to you? That's a good time. Yeah, then you learn the technique of how to do it yourself so much better. No, no, no. You got to train with the right intensity. Don't go to failure. Stop a couple reps short. Have good technique. And if you're going to max out, use safeties on a power rack. And that's about it. Then you'll be set. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides. They're all free and they're awesome. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. I am also there at Mind Pump to Stefano. And Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.