 We'll have a weekly. Oh, it's on YouTube as well. That's right. Yeah. So, we're doing both. So, this is both Honest Wargamer, Warhammer Weekly, Vincent Robb, together again, it feels like the first time. Hold on. Let me just get this right for us both. Let me just scratch down. No, it's like over the course of the show you should just slowly, slowly, slowly scooch there. I didn't I didn't. Is that hopefully that's better for everybody? Yeah, we'll get you. We'll just get you. I'm I'm used to annunciating pretty vocally in this room. Okay, I will make sure I speak clearly. Yeah, we got you. There we go. All right. Yeah, we got you. Just make sure. Hello, everyone in the chat. Welcome to the show. We're about to watch the reveal. It's literally moments away. Couldn't be more excited. Okay. I mean that really. I literally do mean that. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. No, I am very excited about this because I have a strong suspicion. I know exactly what's coming. I think we both know like roughly. I think I think it's. Is this is this a rat? This and this this and this. Wait, I'll do the tree and you'll be a rat. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's both of those. Yes, that's what we're seeing. I think and that's been kind of already been spoiled in a bunch of different ways. I guess the real question is is going to be something outside of that box which we weren't expecting. Yes. That's what I am saying. I am hopeful. Look, I'm going to I'm I'm injecting that pure hopium right into my veins. Just load me up. Okay. I believe I believe I can fly. I believe there will be more than just that. I really do. I think we're going to I'll tell you what got me hyped. Okay. I'm ready and maybe I'll be let down in a minute but I but you know what I'd rather ride the high of having hope than be sad and here's the thing. I looked at the 40 K reveals yesterday and I didn't watch the stream. Okay. But I looked at it afterward and I was like that's a pretty good amount of stuff. Yeah. That was a pretty good amount of cool stuff. It's a good amount of stuff. I think the I think the issue with the 40 K stuff specifically is is none of it was a condensed product. It was like you might get some world eaters stuff. Here's a bit of some squats. Yeah. And you're like, okay, but he's not it was it was an amuse bouche of a release. That is such a such a wonderful way to put it. Yes absolutely. We got a sort of charcuterie board of all of the different delicacies of the the Warmer 40 K world. But I was looking at it like that's a cool trike. That's some cool cast base marine stuff. I like those new cultists. You know, I thought the the new it was cool to see the new demon prince on the 40 K side and get confirmed that we were going to have other heads that isn't that stupid ugly head they showed off in the first one. Like I don't know offense to whoever sculpted the sort of default head we saw in the AOS article but man was that an ugly face. But those other alternate heads of like the God ones were good. They were great. I love the corn one good. No. I love the corn one. I love the slanesh head. I thought even the neural head look cool. I wouldn't use it but you know there you go. The perfect gold recipe three drops of Vallejo metal color gold two drops of Vallejo metal color copper two drops of flow improver and one one hundred and twenty-eighth of a teaspoon we just up a bit there. Sure. And then Nasdaq yellow minutes of Green Stuff World anti gold pigment. There you go. Hello in the chat obviously if you're watching on on one weekly YouTube yes we can see all of it. First time in the arena it is and you first time you've seen what you thought it's gorgeous. You really built something awesome I mean that like it's super cool. The tables the set up the sort of stream decks that you built that you built a custom website just to be able to be able to collect all that information and stream to to to make this amazing technical thing you've got going on here happening. We're in like a spaceship command center right now you all don't know that. But Rob basically streams from a spaceship control that's what this is I feel like I am literally. At you know like I am I'm going to pilot some sort of Thunderhawk gunship. Well we have to be professional like this kind of important because really the entire place this is the entire place is built to do live coverage of events this room then becomes way over the top for just talking to the Twitch chat. Sure. But I enjoy the process. I enjoy it a lot. It's lovely having you here. Thank you wonderful I also got to hang out with you a bit last night and take you for some food which was well we just randomly went ran into each other at the kebab shop. Yeah that's what we did. So it's really fun and it's been lovely having you here I'm looking forward to today chat what up we place and you might have I know you've done your own reveals shows before and other stuff but we all play little games. I'm ready like there's some different elements because obviously we've done a reveal show for a reaction for every single reveal. Yes since covid started. Yep. And our first one is as I need you to guess how many books we're going to see today. Now that's always really good books and model ratio is really key. Yeah OK so like but this is cheating now all right it's not a question anymore OK let's think about this logically problem. We've got eight books coming I only think about things emotively well that's we're going to have to switch your thinking then so pull the handbrake let's do this OK OK. Elias said he likes the ugly demon Prince had which I love like good that shows that there's something for everyone out there I'm glad it's in the kit then for your last but I'll be using the sweet son of shed. OK we know there are eight books until the end of the year now Rob I know the road map showed seven up to the the ill but we think eight but but obviously it's eight because they don't do single book releases anymore because you release a box I call them FOMO boxes which I do too now because I don't know what else call them OK I just borrowed your terminology it feels fair I'm joining the cult I did Vince is convinced that the oldest one game of chat is a cult so what up cult members thanks for being here I don't agree but we talked about this in detail last night but so we know eight books what are you thinking beyond that yeah so I mean like I honestly I don't think they're going to show us any more of those eight today OK because they're going to keep whatever the four are that are in the autumn probably in their pockets still obviously we're going to see the two in the summer yeah we I'm guessing we're going to get a hint at the next season of war book OK because I think we're going to get two of those basically per GHB cycle so you'll have one GHB and then you get two seasons of war over that time period you think we're going to see one already like now to come out in four months yeah yeah yeah because there'll be one that'll release on the backside of the GHB OK alright interesting something someone came up with something I thought was really interesting in one of the YouTube comments recently which hadn't really clocked on a lot of the scenery that we've seen come out over the past year yeah has been very mortal realms focused and also very much like our dawn bringer crusade army that we we we hope is coming out and we don't have any idea like do you do you think there's anything in that it feels to me whatever that was that makes a lot of sense because we know that they've had production issues production cycle issues you don't think we're going to see those humans of the realms this year I hear do you want my honest my honest call I wish we were going to see the dawn bringer crusade crusade stuff I think you'll be lucky if you see it before next year like before before GHB next year OK a full year plus let me just do that so everyone can it's kind of like they're us but we're cooler well I have a better jacket I think I like that they match shirts it's been too high for the whole time let me fix that first they do both have a very pleasing flannel I think Adam needs a he needs something like obviously Eddie right on brand with Severeth cheater of the seven wins on a shirt and but but Adam nothing I would like to see maybe a Middle Earth thing Adam's big Middle Earth guy right he used to be the head of Middle Earth yeah it would have been nice to see Adam to bring that energy I didn't know there was a severed teacher in production if I'm honest I've never seen it before I'm thinking Eddie had that custom made I assume if someone approaches you it just takes itself off that's correct every time you get near Eddie his shirt rips off of him and goes 12 inches backwards correct well yeah so so books so I know so we finish with where you think the book yeah so that's what I'm saying we'll see like three you think three yeah like the season war and the two that we know are coming okay three books chat it's time for you to guess how many books you think is personally I think we're going to we know the two we're going to see I think we're going to see two and then something mysterious maybe our first piece of Warhammer animation Prey to Sigma they finished strong yes they finished Warhammer animation it's super important for them as a product to keep pushing so I wouldn't be surprised if it's something about that I'd be very excited Vince for the Sinesh book I got a long hope that the Sinesh the chaos book in the summary is no way I do think that the order books going to be luminous but I don't think the chaos books going to be Sinesh and the reason I think that Rob is very simple we live in the worst of all possible timelines so whatever I think would be best is absolutely the opposite of what we're going to get I am I'm very positive I'm very positive about that I'm very sure that that's the situation yeah right yeah chat in the chat sorry you might be getting some bots in the chat informing you because we're streaming on two, three different platforms so those different chats will be being linked to each other is what you're all seeing so I want you to be conscious of that it's not going to happen next time it's just because we would like to both be able to do this for both of our audiences at the same time I don't know if it's a cult for me what's yours I don't know should people watch the channel alright okay people this is what we'll give a crazies I didn't say crazies I made no such first of all I didn't say your fans were a cult I said you're a cult leader there is a difference oh wow okay alright I'm not even selling cool age yet that's coming that's coming we're actually in the process of I don't know if you know this because I know like you're very big into like the different product hobby products you can do yeah yeah a million great videos people can watch about oh thank you painting and hobby products we're working you managed to eclipse them all in a single video I just I watched slap chop Rob and I thought well that's it I'm done thought about packing it in right there nothing more to say don't worry we've hit peak YouTube I'm doing wet slap chop next excellent this is just blending we're working on a product which I think is really valuable and going to be very I would like to point out really a cult thank you thank you big Tom thank you not sure maybe but we're working on a a slap chop because we do use water sometimes we're working on a slap chop like water vessel containers it's going through a lot of R&D I can see that it's going to go through a lot of R&D so we're not really sure how it works okay so Eddie and Adam matching outfits matching ish it's nice that they've gone for this Flano look like started in the history of humanity it's definitely a look you've popularized as a Warhammer Live commentator look I feel like I popularized and at one point I wasn't allowed to do at Games Workshop I was specifically told it was not professional enough to to do and now we've we've turned of corner what do you think what do you think they're trying to say with the Flano events hey man the pandemic was rough all over buddy I think that's what we're trying to say here you know look we're gonna be on camera you would have expected to be you know pretty fairly business casual I mean you're not wearing a tie but everybody would have had a nice button down shirt or something like that if you're gonna be on camera if you're gonna be in person now I see in the office see people on camera look man two and a half years of doing zoom meetings everybody's just like got a t-shirt on maybe some people have a flannel on or something relaxing like people are relaxed you always come correct I dress exactly like this every day button down collar by myself by the fun t-shirt I wear which one have you got like right now I have Shermer High 1985 let's show everyone let's go Shermer High 19 oh ok is that your high school 1985 no that is the high school of the breakfast club Shermer High 1985 Saturday ok let me help the zoomers out zoomers in the chat the breakfast club is a movie we used to be able to get on the TVs it's kind of like TikTok but longer their TikTok videos but longer and it's about them spending oh oh oh hold on let's give some audio for us and the chat we should all be on Taylor's ok we'll hear him a mile off I heard there are such a thing as rap men then what do you think the regimen's been after general's gone mad we're just getting great escape there it is let's do this I want you down barely containing my excitement right now nice edit though this is great look at this dude look at this dude this is perfect this is neat brats look at this guy what is he even law master of oh ok our guy in the FOMO box hey you did it for a while no it's ok we're gonna get more what do you know we're gonna get more as you say this is a brand new heroes for the okay me either alright in the FOMO box right that's exciting dude look at him that dude is great are you kidding me look at this guy first of all I'm excited that you can see the studio branching out look at that non-metallic blade okay talk to me about this cause that just looks like a slap chopped blade to me that's all any paint job looks like to me gotcha well like yes that blade is done in non-metallic metal something they don't classically do that's actually quite a modern style of NMM with the blacked blade and then the the varying the varying sort of light points with the soft fuzz reflection in the blade of it reflecting his mauve hat right they're pulling some of the green from the goo you can see it on the center panel quite well yeah so whoever did this like in the heavy metal team is clearly experimenting with some additional like styles I love to see this breaching out like this whole guy has done in NMM that's a wonderful scene we actually saw that yesterday they did they did crazily there was weathering on our on our leagues of and why heavy metal have had a very particular style for many years what is how is this different to that yeah I the because for a long time it would there was sort of a very established clean crisp using true metallic metals using all of these like basically all the shorthand of what had been established and now I think they're starting to expand because as they expand the heavy metal team you've got a lot of painters out there they're all good painters they're watching artists do they themselves have their own interests and so they want to expand how they're doing it which is great like even I can see the hints of some pigment and stuff it looks like on that base as well if now we could just get them away from doing a brown rim on the side you don't like the brown rim no that's incorrect is it only black always you can have any color you want as long as it's black okay not gobbling green you're against that you're super against gobbling green right in the bin the actual bin of history I can't believe that I'm going to be keen on gobbling green I know there's lots of people who are wrong about things in the world okay alright so this is obviously going to come so this is a special character and is also clan Eshin I am pretty certain look the death master right now is super underwhelming I don't know if you've played with or against Skaven but there is a guy in the okay sure the Eshin leader who is called the death master the only death he's the master and he's dead instantly because he's worthless so a new character like this in the Eshin ranks I'm glad to see it if we can also as part of like like obviously this confirms everything oh yeah there we go okay yay one book one out of three for you one out of three for me I see we're in the same art category danger will Robinson I imagine this is a copy and paste book I don't believe that well first of all I here's what I say I kind of hope so because let's talk about the Skaven book I think the Skaven book is honestly an incredibly good book it was it because it doesn't use the standard sub factions instead the individual clans brought their own new stuff you know individual to the to the table depending on what was there like the Skaven book when it initially came out was actually pretty reasonably pointed it was just a little too cheap given the met at that time if you put those guys back at their original the low the fat middle okay because they're so under they're so like incapable of surviving right now but the rules and the feel of most of Skaven was already Skaven so yeah like so where I would agree with you is I think the dates sheets are great yeah across the board spoils fine yeah I like I think we keep all that I would just like to make it easier to build my individual correct and then and then I would like a better overarching set of allegiance easy for them to do I agree it looks like they've already copied pasted a bunch so now just carry on and that's you just nailed it exactly right the individual war scrolls and a lot of the spells and stuff like that even some of the items were pretty cool and pretty good and pretty flavorful right the thing that was problematic was the army construction rules and the base allegiance abilities were off and off like some were just incredible and some were just like who cares right so what really is that we have three pages retool the army construction rules like can we please change the battle line situation here right that's what we want because it sucked that you either had to be all in one mono clan with like a master clan leader and then your army was just hamstrung and worthless okay or you had to have 60 clan rounds that was it those were your options when you're talking about a line though I think there's one thing that everyone is keen for and it's the clear win you just sell doom wheels forever I recently played a scaven army I ran a bunch of doom wheels in it I crushed some stormcast I just want you to know it was a it was a storm keep sort of list so they were like lib slash like that kind of thing heavy and they can't handle the doom wheel thunder that's just it we just rolled over just rolled over because it's the perfect indication if you guys don't know when you move doom wheels they move 46 but you do have the ability to re-roll it but if you do use that I've seen it many times I've never used that ability once and used it myself yeah the keen the crazy that's when the eye of the rat emerges in the player that you're playing or in yourself it's when the the lunacy that is scaven I think is best exemplified because if you roll low if you roll it again or if you re-roll it sorry and you roll any ones your opponent then gets to move it but that is quintessentially perfect and scaven which is why I think all of the the units are pretty great I would maybe like to see all of it's good I'd like to see the help more damage get a little bit more speed yeah more damage a couple of units need a little more speed like to help it a couple of units need some more damage like our the vermin lords need the standard kick up to greater demon level that we see most the greater demons go through we need some damage up the army basically does no damage right now outside of you know just stacking a million as well mainly yeah like storm fiends yeah that's it but that it is a 63% of the time it works every time which is 100% that's the problem is that that thing is like you play one list and you'll just completely obliterate them oh we're going again we're going again okay so now silver I would imagine that's gotta be next right we gotta get into the silver nothing okay let's go life flows for realms once more and where there is growth we will spring forth to defend it in a lariel's name oh look at this now that's a unit that's a unit there are bug riders which have been moving quite often alright so we got look at these bad boys they're very cool ooh got some mid archers look at these little fairy archers nice so they're going down the more fading yeah that's excellent the navy of the vines wow what a throwback okay that's exciting that's a silver death player very exciting I mean you see what I'm saying this is what I said I stand behind my original thing that I thought we were going to just more get more than the FOMO box heroes so I assume the lady of the vines is the new hero lady of the vines maybe I think probably the other half of the FOMO box will be everything we've just seen sure these other new kids yeah these kids whatever these like which is a silver death person is going to be very exciting which means there's going to be a lot of spare kits of the Skaven available sure because I think Sylvaneth are one of the most popular factions when they've got play like 100% people love this army yeah people absolutely adore this army just genuinely doesn't feel very sensible to play so you know we've done we've done multiple surveys on aesthetics okay like we've had people rate aesthetics in multiple surveys and Sylvaneth at the top consistently every time mm-hmm you know these are like thousands of people we've put through the survey and Sylvaneth and Nighthawk consistently at the top of the aesthetic line interesting people love the look of this I think because especially with Nighthawk it's so incredibly unique compared to everything else like often it's a mortal doing X you know because we don't have as much like Xenos I guess although we've got deep into things but like for me as opposed to I guess just more wood elf they had that option right and they clearly have gone along that route which I think is gorgeous and this is a fantastic sculpt I think this is really great I've seen a lot obviously doing the 3D print shows I've seen a lot of tree based miniatures over the past year or so sure sure and so it's hard to super impress me but I think this is great I think this is really good but not bad at all to be honest I think I actually quite like the mix of like the natural crown she's wearing amongst the the vines like how her her tree branches are growing like in and out amongst them you know what I mean I think that's actually pretty cool I'm not sure about this back piece she has she has like this little I assume that's like her soul pod a morphe or whatever on her back I'm not sure about that but overall I like the look I like the look yeah I think I'm not sure like yeah it looks good and she's on a very big base as well right like so we're expecting I would assume so she's well she's got a stick definitely level one like definitely level one that's going to be the heartbreak level one you say that I want most wizards in the game to be one cast wizards oh my god we have too many multi cast wizards in the game no we don't have enough call me what's his name call me what's the bad guy from Doctor Strange the someone who wants to kill the wizards yes you know what I figured out what so many wizards that's the problem camera's dead I personally would like to see some more wizarding knocking around Baron Mordo that's who it was yes it's Baron Mordo I've not watched is that the new Doctor Strange no that was the first one I don't think I would say either it was good but yeah I would like to see more cast but the interesting bit about the Sylvaneth roster is it's already got a lot of wizards sure we've got the tree song Revenant Alariel obviously tree lord ancient and like it would be great to see like and then you've got the little foot characters so it would be really good to see like this have some other utility in the army now the riders are excellent because mainly Sylvaneth's mobility has always been orientated around the trees that they put on the board having something that is fast in of itself because of a bug well both the my guess is both the bug riders and the archers we're going to see some speed there because if the archers have those little fairy wings then one assumes they're not flying around at a speed of 5 it should be 12 right exactly so what that says is we're getting two very mobile units here right yeah which is good because the Sylvaneth book needs that right because then maybe Games Workshop could write something around this obviously means a rewrite again of a Sylvaneth Wild Woods which is exciting because this is the 18th time in three months now these are fantastic so unit of 5 great hope they don't get the cross booze treatment because they are like ineffective to say the least I'll tell you what I wouldn't mind more cross booze maybe a slight step better than them but things I don't need in the world more amazing shooting I would like them if they were quite effective but at a relatively short range that's the shooting we need to see in the game and I agree but their mobility is always so the issue is like we've said if their mobility is 12 yep then and their shoot is 18 their range is already 30 so like you know so it could be 12 and 12 to make it 24 hi Adam yes we're having fun I don't make it more effective that would be super cool yes but ultimately having a slightly different unit in this army is excellent because I'm all about unit roles I'm all like I'm all about like like what was the daughter of Cain one that they released recently the lady and I was just like you don't need another one on foot lady character in your daughter's Cain army I don't think like for a unit role I mean given what she did to the sisters and witches she feels a role but that role being turning those girls into murder machines but you know like my general feeling is I agree that one of the problems of the game right now is we have too much like long range high power mortal wound triggering shooting okay and I've said many times in the show that the one of the fatal flaws right now is when you take shooting is always by nature more powerful we had a long conversation about this last night right a lot of fundamental reasons and then you add on the ability to trigger mortal wounds and you add on the ability to make it long range then you add on the ability to get re-rolls or to ignore a line of sight or to to pick the five other things then you get a very dangerous unit that suddenly twists army rosters right but if these guys are like 12 inch move maybe they got a 12 inch shot or a 15 inch or 16 inch shot you know they're like two shots threes threes neg one one with some kind of special ability great perfect I'm in let's do this okay right what's the useful unit I agree with you I think that I think like harpies for daughters of Cain are good examples of units that do stuff I think I think the problem is though is you would be releasing them into a world of already terror like yeah that's fine break all the rest of that stuff I want to break everybody's pretty toys but they weren't they weren't so the bugs the bugs are pretty I really dig these these guys look cool they all have the helmet from the the other hero yes like the whatever his name the tree revenant no that's not his name arch revenant arch revenant okay there we go halfway there they all have his helmet yeah which is cool because we're seeing more of that elven faction in like conjunction because there were at one point there were two elven factions well no there was a singular elven faction that was in league with sylvaneth but when sigmar closed that gate look at me sigmar closed that gate the wood elves stayed inside azir and some of the elves stayed outside there's been an uneasy alliance between the two forever and so these have obviously gone more not feral but they're definitely more in nature because like their bottom half is all wood basically you ever watched nautica yes yes fantastic one of my most favorite movies of all time and I'm serious when I say this gives me some especially those bugs gives me some serious nautica vibes okay yeah I see that that's very cool yeah I mean I don't mind them going down that like they've got some great design cues famously really inspired by a lot of art yeah no one could be inspired by them oh we got two different versions yeah it's a dual kit see so we got the the writer Lancers which obviously okay question for you here we go Rob is this unit also a wizard look at the look at the leaders swirly twirly banner stick is that just a swirly twirly banner stick just a twirly banner stick okay I just yeah there's that's not because we've got a musician we've got a banner okay and then we've got the leader so we've got the unit of three which is yeah keep the keep the unit you know what you know what units of wizards no we've seen how that goes it's called Omenath it's terrible well I I'm excited show us the picture of the other guys again go to the other guys I'm excited for these guys because I think it would be fun to have some more utility in a Sylvaneth army yeah because they because they needed this this is a unit role they didn't have they didn't have speed on foot they always relied on there being something to do with a tree not on foot but like without other mechanics being involved yeah yeah yeah so this is maybe maybe 12 to 12 to 16 I'm sure I doubt they'll be particularly hardy I don't know I don't they don't look like they don't look like four wounds so maybe we'll cap them at three wounds they could be four wounds like Zangor on this which is still insane to me that they're four wounds apiece but sure I think you'll probably see them forward like let's let's and okay here we go the revenant seekers alright so yeah these guys clearly shorter weapons right the other dude relances yeah these guys are going to like I don't know who knows what the difference would be alright here let's do this I'm gonna say 16 inch move four wounds I'm gonna say base four up save okay and I'm gonna say these these bug guys have the three inch coherency roll of course of course they do look at them wings look at them wings they're gonna have the dragon slash prosecutor slash with other things they've added that too alopexes the three inch coherency roll pretty well yeah okay interesting I like these I think these are these are okay the bugs bits are fine like I don't mind I quite like them yeah they're they're a little bit complicated for me as a painter I see that and that looks a tad daunting I hope the legs aren't built into the bug model they will be but it would be nice if they weren't well they might be like they might be like the nerd legs where it's just like the leg in yeah yeah yeah I mean that's fine but you could just make it so you just stick it on that would be sweet just paint them separately sure just for some speed I'm really interested in the wings though because that looks like a very difficult effect to achieve I don't think so that looks super simple like that's just a creamy flesh color that they then traced white down on that thing in fact I was thinking boy those wings like eye patterns on them like butterfly wings and stuff you know like you could you could get you could get weird you could get wild okay so they're rather simple there yeah people think that maybe these are gonna be like eels which I think is nice I like the idea that they're eels sure there we go is that the no that's a different cover I think that's the same images no it's not that's new I'm almost it's hard to tell with the red because that's a I'm not gonna lie the last time we were on the chat saying it's the same okay there you go I thought it was the same yep there you go there he is it's more red it is more red yeah they did color change it like they they they did actually like color tinted okay alright yeah I'm not like why are they just recycling the art you know they didn't make much money last year just keeping it on the keeping on the DL they'll cover art time consuming I don't know they when you hit max level stop you know I I mean I don't is this the greatest cover we could ever imagine for Sylvaneth is this peak Sylvaneth not really well I mean what's interesting about this is like when you look at this like it's just it that's the revenant the revenant now is the feature so like I think sometimes they really like they tell us about this maybe like the tree people are less it's maybe it's necessarily they're trying to move away from sure in some ways like the kernel thunters and you big tree lord agent I just think they're expanding the vocabulary of the range which is fine yeah I agree I agree and I think that's good because I think actually I was looking at the doors of Cairn Capitol this morning just by happenstance and I was like actually it doesn't have a lot of kits something else now Oh, they got leaked. Wow. Okay. Okay. Nice. Very cool. That's great. There's no way this is part of the original reveal. Zero chance. Oh, absolutely excellent. Look at these. Look at these boys. Crushed corn trample. Yes. That's great. Yes. Okay. So, these are the guys. So, if you guys aren't aware, for some reason, the Slaves of Darkness book, which is chaos and chaos warriors, has been leaked and is coming at the end of the year. We've already seen these models in lots of screenshots and leaks, but some of you may not have seen that yet. Obviously, because some people just don't live online. And so, we're now seeing these in the flesh, like, or not in a blurry picture. And they look fantastic. Oh, my God. These guys look fantastic. We even know what their profile is. They got a five. We're like, I know their staff. So, that's super exciting because they're going to be, I think they look really great. They're basically bulgur rules-wise, but actually it's really nice to see because they've released a lot of chaos stuff for Age of Sigma over the past 45 years. I just want to say I really love that banner, by the way. That's super amazing. Whoever painted that is a great job. But yes, we've seen chaos always gets the love, right? But weirdly, while it's, oh, so if we ignore the demons, I more mean the kind of moral element. Like, yeah, demons obviously loads, and it's all excellent. And all the mortal stuff are those God allegiances, but the undivided stuff. So, like, either follow Bellacor or Archeon. Like, we've seen lots. We've seen Cultists. We've seen the Mimrodon. We've seen the Fomroid Crusher. We've seen the Spharynx. We've seen all that stuff, the beasts of the realms. But like, I don't think they've necessarily pitched that well yet to us as an audience. I don't feel any, I don't know how you feel. Yeah. Like, especially because I feel like the two core units which, like the two core units which have been most important, Chaos Warriors and Chaos Knights, have never really been there. It's always been marauders or something similar. So I've never really felt like, okay, that's the front line. The same way a liberator is. You know, like I haven't, I haven't really felt that. And this is cool. I feel like this really gives me big Chaos vibes and something I can really, like, bite the bullet on. But really, like, is this not a piece of Chaos? Like, like, what's going on here? What do you think? No, I, look, they're Ogroids because they're not actually Minotaurs. Like, if you look, there is a significant difference here. They're built like the Ogroid Thaumatage and the Ogroid Mimrodon. And there is actually some anatomical differences between those two, between, like, traditional Minotaurs and these guys, right? Like, they have created a new thing here, as it were. And I'm happy to see them continue expanding this. What I actually love about this is we, we've seen the, with a lot of that stuff you're talking about, they end up being single tens in your army, right? Like the Ogroid Mimrodon or the Thaumatage cool, cool character, cool hero. We have seen the Thaumatage show up in some armies. Councilor and Carcadrack is a good example. Like, great single piece. Great single piece. But we don't have like a Carcadrack, you know, unit where we could have just a bunch of these guys rolling out, right? It's just like the one dude on his one thing. So I like this as an expansion downward, where you can have now the hero and the matching unit to go with them. So, yeah. And I mean, these guys, obviously, they're going to have the different builds between the great weapon or the weapon and shield, which we saw spoiled. Yes, of course. In before, someone points out that that's a 3D print on the shield on the left. I can see the lines in the middle. But before we get the long games workshop users of 3D print, of course they do on pre-production stuff. Yeah, of course they do. How else do you think they get this stuff to paint so early? Imagine how early you have to get this to painters to do this kind of work on it, right? Slaps up that in a day, man. Right, sure. Actually a day. Yeah. I mean, the heavy metal team's got to start working like months ago to get this done and then get it photographed and get everything together. But yeah, of course. I mean, they're not that like their poses are quite different. But other than that, they're not that dynamically different. I don't feel. No, I think that I like the accoutrement. I like that we have the standard bearer and musician option in there. Okay. I like the, you know, I like their little loincloth. It's pretty standard cast up. I like their buckles. We do have still a good amount of exposed flesh and muscle, which I enjoy. I like that. So, you know, I like, as I said yesterday, and I stand behind, I like some, I like some shirtless muscle. That's what I want to see. Yeah, I get it. I get it. I'm gonna see them stacks. Have you got the masses of the universe game? Have you picked it up? I have not. Are you going to? I feel like He-Man, is He-Man not your jam? I mean, it's okay. I like He-Man fine. Okay, but not. That, I like that type of fantasy. He-Man, ThunderCats, all those types of things represent a really important fantasy that is, hey, look, here's some fantasy, but also we have tanks and laser guns. So, Frank Frazetta sort of are. And this is what I want. That's what I love. That's my fantasy jam. Like, I think these young, these young whipper snappers today who grew up on the Lord of the Rings movie and thinks that's the only type of fantasy. Elves and dwarves and that's it, you know. Nah, nah, nah. When I was growing up, back in my day, Rob. Okay. Okay. We used to have dudes with, low on a wore a shirt. With like nun shucks and then they'd fight a tank and that made complete sense. What's odd is your, your, your love for shirts versus your love for men without shirts. Well, it goes both ways. You know, you got it. Like, it's just the chest all region, I think. Okay. Just generally stuff around there. Okay, that works. Okay. There's been some interesting stuff. After this, we will go and look at the YB community site, but they've said they've actually featured some rules. So, thanks to MJ Pegasus, who I know is a big fan of these things. Also, it's Alder, actually. Big love to you. They've uploaded some descriptions of the Sylvanith unit abilities in Warcom already and they're going to be support pieces, but we've got another reveal. Wow, that's fast. I don't know what we're doing here. So, I think, so, like, taking the coin, we know where that phrase comes from. Do we need to explain to people in the chat? Go for it. Okay. So, taking the King Shilling. You're in the UK. This is perfect. Yes. Taking the King Shilling would be going to war. You would take the coin. It would be like first month's pay ahead of time. Sure. And you sign on the dotted line and off you'd go to war to fight in the line. And so, they clearly have taken that kind of idea and have put that into joining the Dornbringer Crusade, I assume, which might mean one of two things. Either we're going to get a Dornbringer Crusade book or they just want to sell six coins. I think you're literally going to get the little coin. It's just okay. I think this is just them talking about coins, Rob. Okay. Is this an NFT? Is it a Dornbringer NFT? You don't even really get the coins. You get an NFT of a picture of the coins. Coin objectives. Yeah. All right. Okay. So, someone said that this is, I have not listened to, we're not listening to them, obviously. So, maybe it's just coin objectives. But I like the idea that they would tie it into a release. You said maybe we won't see Dornbringer Crusade. I'm telling you. I think maybe we will. But because they featured it so heavily in the initial release. I feel like my personal opinion, we were meant to get Stormcast Iron Jaws and our next book was meant to be Dornbringers. I just think that in the end we're not going to see these guys. Like the Dornbringer whatever's meant to come of that for quite a while. So, they've just announced they're working on new cities to see my book and models. So, they're working on it. So, maybe it's not this. So, my timeline would be correct. Okay. Okay. Right. Like next, you gotta think next year. Like if they're working, so, I mean you were on the inside, you know how this goes. If you're working on a book now, the earliest that book is going to come out is 12 months from now. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. If it's in process. Two years maybe. Sure. Like I'm saying the earliest. Like they have hustled and you've seen crush times. The afternoon that they spend making it, doing the time in between. Well, it's a lot like there's a lot of process too. So, imagine what it goes through, right? You got your initial design development. Then you've got your review, your play testing. Then you've got to go through an editing pass. You've got to go through a translation pass because remember it's got to get translated out into all the post editing. It's got to get translated into all the other languages. You don't do any of these things. What are you talking about? You've got to get the art. You've got to do layout work. As somebody who publishes books, like there's a difference between finishing writing books. That's the way that they do it. Well, I can't speak to that. I can't speak to that. All right. Yeah, I just, I was, is it just photo? Are they still talking? Yeah, it's still playing. It's still playing. We're just looking at a coin. The equivalent of the God of Kings shilling, right? Told you. Told you. That's the most amazing unmute ever. The fact that you just nailed it on that exact thing that you made. Yeah, yeah. So, taking the coin. That's amazing. But you have watched the TV show Sharp? No, I never watched Sharp. Okay. Well, they're always taking the king shilling for that as well. Okay. Right. So, anyway, yeah. So anyways, my point is if they're working on the book now, here we sit in in May, year of our lord 2022, then we're talking about like the earliest that you would see a new city's book. If that's, if that timeline is what they said in the stream and obviously we're not listening to it. But if that's what they said, then that would mean like the earliest would be like June, July of next year, like in line with the GHB, which would be fine. That'd be a good way to do it. Like that could be a fine time to launch it. That would make it probably one of the last books of the edition. What lasts or next year. Yeah. No, last books. Yeah. Because last books of the, what I mean is like of catch up into third edition for like it would put it on the back side of that, right? In your mind. I guess, I guess also, and there we go, we've seen some scopes actually of some stuff that is about to. Okay, so we are definitely in early doors. Yeah. This is not the summer book. This is actually really interesting because they also did this. I thought yesterday they kind of ran out of stuff and they were like, by the way, we're doing world eaters in a couple of years or any year. Sure. Actually, this is really interesting because they've done the same for Sigma and I'm really excited about this because this really like started talking about things further in advance and sure, it's not all of the information and it's not a full roadmap, but I thought the leaks that happened recently were excellent because we actually got a consistent roadmap of some degree. People had some ideas. Yeah, yeah. Like, and I think that they're really positive from a consumer and also for the company. They don't see that. This is the kind of thing they should have been doing for a long time. I'm really surprised they didn't learn the lesson of the sisters of battle because they did the same thing that they did. Exactly. And this is great. Like, obviously this is just early concepting and rendering, right? So, that's what we're looking at here. None of these are like real models that exist somewhere. These are all just renders, right? And what they're trying to show us is some of the aesthetics they're experimenting with trying to figure out as they go forward in making a new line and that really excites me, Rob. I'd love like cities coming on the backside, whatever it's going to be, Dom Rear Crusade, cities to Electric Boogaloo. I don't care, right? Whatever it is, I've been really crying out that it's time to re-sculpt a lot of that range. Like, it just is. I think what's awkward for them is with the announcement of Old World. Sure. And then the integration of the two is where they're going to draw the line. But also, it's been you know, six years for Aida Sigma. And it would be good to actually have the humans of the mortal realms more identified than just weird leftovers exactly. This is my point. I want us to get into, like, what does the... By the way, we've seen lots of good art that shows what these people look like and everything cool in Soulbound, in the role-playing game. Because the RPG was forced to get down to the city level because that's where the heroes are, where they live, where they meet NPCs, where they talk to people. They were forced to actually show you through that art of that book what this looks like at the ground level. But we just don't have any miniatures to match that. And I think thinking about the Old World coming, they know they've got to do this because they want differentiation. Of course. They want the... Like, they want to be able to have you walk into a shop and go, okay, this stuff belongs all together. And it's the Old World and it hangs together. This stuff belongs to Aida Sigma. It has them at... Like, I know this is all Aida Sigma. The same way we looked in. I don't need the little things on the shelf or the colored boxes to know this is the 40K stuff versus this the OS stuff. Yeah, of course. Right. Yeah, yeah. So if you just join us, by the way, we're looking at the reveals today for Aida Sigma is what we're currently discussing. And this looks like it's going to be an upcoming City of Sigma book or even the Dawnbringer Crusade stuff, which if you guys aren't aware, at the beginning of Aida Sigma 3, they... We got the Dawnbringer Crusades were announced, which aren't problematic at all, that's fine. And not an issue. Well, they didn't have the Crusades in their world. This is a nice Crusade. Sure. Yeah. There's zero work. There's zero intent applied there. I get to that wordage. But either way, like we're seeing that, which I'm actually very excited about because actually it'll be really cool to see what the humans in the mortal realms are up to, even to the point of, like, I don't hate the idea of terrain kits, right? Sure. Yeah, yeah. Where we end up seeing like a merchant stall or whatever. I thought about this a lot with the the Celestial Elite Switch. Obviously, I know you're a huge fan. I mean, yes. I'm a fan of all the releases. Yes. But I think that that was particularly good because like, I really got the idea that there was like a lot more mercantile nature. They looked fairly mercantile as well. They did look like they were from some sort of like Eastern European Bazaar. Yeah. But then I was like, well, who makes a cloth? Who puts all that together? Like it's not a demon where everything was pulled apart. Right. They were very they were very structured in their organization and I was like, I really want to see where this stuff comes from. Yeah. I really want to see those places and I think that would be really fun. Even if only ever comes out in art, I think it'd be so fun to explore those elements from like a narrative perspective and also for these guys as designers. Those are definitely going to be coins you can buy. Yeah, it's just going to be coins you can buy. Which is cool. I love the fun. That's fun. It's not fun. It's not. I don't care. Don't spend 15 minutes telling me about a coin. No, that's obviously ridiculous. It's just been like, here's some coins. You can buy them. They could be fun objective markers. That's cool. The markup must be insane though. Like they wasn't like going to the pitch me like, okay, we've got the the book which is pennies and it's 30 quid. Yeah, sure. We've got like, so markup's crazy. Pitch that. Obviously, that sells you minis as well. Markup's insane. That's great. Here we go. General's Handbook. Trog edition. Trog edition. Yeah. Trog edition. Wait, what is 2022-2023 season one? Hold on. We need to unmute this part. I want to hear with this. What this means. No. This is six. This will set out the match play scene effectively for the next six months plus of age of sigma and it contains the sort of stuff you'd expect it to contain. So there's some themes that are worth exploring. So the first one is that this has got a lot of battle plans in. There are 12 battle plans in here. Six of them are relatively generic battle plans that you can use however you want. And then six of them are themed very much to the setting of this particular General's Handbook which is still set within the realm of beasts but in a different location within the realm of beasts. We're staying in the beasts. The last few months we've been in we've been in a place which is full of monsters and large beasts. So if you've been playing competitive match play for Age of Sigma you'll know that you had lots of things that either gave you bonuses against monsters or made your monsters better or if you had a spell you could literally turn yourself into a monster. The next season of Warhammer Age of Sigma is much more focused on battle line infantry. So if you've got a force which is very heavily dependent on things like your basic troopers you want big blocks of units. There'll be lots of things that give your guys bonuses. The idea is that these can be confirmed. Okay so a couple of things to break down first. Six months season pass. Not happy about it. Pass. Hard pass. Hot pass. Why does it say 2022-2023 if it's season one then it's just the rest of 2022. You're lying to me. It's just six months. It's just six months. Interestingly I'm kind of interested about it. The problem is and we've talked about this a lot off air and also I know that we've got different thoughts on this but there's a very there's a very small group of people and I mean in the hundreds who are super excited about a six month refresh because they'll be able to grab that stuff learn it, play loads have loads of fun. They'll play multiple tournaments in a six month edition. Absolutely. They'll have a wonderful time. Oh yeah. But that is a very small for those people which you're right. It is a small group but we shouldn't say there's not nobody. No it's not nobody. There is a group of people here who for that kind of a season they're going to be like this is what I've always wanted this is perfect. This is going to give me a rotating you know competitive environment. Here's where I'm okay with it Rob. For most of us I know exactly where you're going. For most of us that is insanely fast. But hold on let's back up here. Okay. Let me pitch. I'm going to we're going to try to find the positive. Okay. All right. This is none. All right. Well hold on now. Just just let me okay. What is this really this is somebody realize they got to stop giving points away for free in December. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Half the like like tell me you're you're you're a manager. You're an executive at a company. Yeah. And somebody come and you're getting an update from your people who work for you right. And they say okay here's this thing we do. Now we do it twice a year. Now when we do it this time we charge people for it. Yes. And people pay money for it. When we do it this other time we just give it away for free. Yeah. We should pay we should make people pay. There is no executive in the universe of of currently existing capitalism that would look at that and go why don't we make them both free. No. There's only one direction that it's going to ever turn buddy. So this is how do we monetize the the December FAQ points adjustment big release. There's a couple of things I got to say about this and none of them are kind not taught you obviously to the process is obviously we already see this example in 40 K and I know you keep an eye on 40 K especially to what your boy Tom Leighton he is tell Tom's my boy Tom's your boy. He really is. I get that. So I take all of my 40 K opinions from Tom Leighton perfect right exactly the one to do but we have that already right like we have that in 40 K generally it isn't a positive and also what's really really problematic is I would actually be so you've you've got me I don't think you've got me on the fence because if we're talking for the largest portion of agency more people yeah this is too fast yeah already knowing that there's some other stuff out there but but like I that's my opinion I understand I we there could be another way this goes yeah okay which is if the GHB comes out first of all the point should just be free okay like what if they just detach the points from this process completely and they just do the points updates as part of like like once every six months well so the 40 K points are now going to be free online which is good that tells me they're actually thinking about moving in the oh there you go points are free online they just said okay thank you Chuckle Bunny we weren't we couldn't hear them so good okay that's good this is a step in the right direction so points are free both times right then I'm so glad to hear they're doing this because here's the thing you could construct a really nice season of this that isn't onerous here's you do it you set up the GHB and I think this is what they're going to aim at and you say okay here's the 2022 2023 GHB it's still a year and in the first one we're going to have some rules we're going to have a battle pack it's going to be your sort of over arching battle pack here's your 12 scenarios here's the rules for the battle pack for this season okay let's watch this oh come back to this conversation yeah yeah trekkie flint captain of the aiosling known throughout the sky shul's of a chromia say his name and make half a taff and starry eyed while the other half mutters about how much money he owes them a sole blight vampire who accepted the curse as his people and kingdom fell to what are we watching he now roams the what is this death and beyond kato ase a wanderer who is outlive the live no i don't think that's what this is what are we watching seeking retribution and salvation i mean first of all it's a super cool model super cool model oh okay they're black library people okay something quite okay they're black library people and then everyone's like black library makes hs sigma stuff they want the hell okay that's cool news to me neat neat models that's cool yeah some cool new black library models um yeah i like that guy hs sigma has such a disparate bunch of models from all over the place you're like oh absolutely that's from war cry that's from black library you're like where is he got an underworld model hanging out over here yeah yeah we got this rando no this is great i love this dude i like to see um uh i remember you know darin latham did a golden demon entry in a os 2018 golden demon that was a converted quadrant overlord without a helmet he actually had i believe sebb sculpted him a custom head okay for for ko and he entered it in the open competition i think he took gold with that and it was a beautiful model and i really loved the look of ko without helmets we got a little more of a taste of that in cursed city with the guy because he's got kind of an open head and i just i think ko looks super cool without helmets on um like look at this dude what a great beard yeah he looks he fits into the aesthetic a lot more he really does yeah okay so we get a book uh okay guy hailey lovely nice guy's a nice guy that's lovely all right okay so so back to this okay so here's how we do this and don't make it terrible okay the season two expansion so you've got your 2022 2023 season one and season two they come on the six months all right we use these books to do the significant adjustments that we want to do maybe but that is to say like to to to introduce interesting new content but that remains not necessary okay okay like imagine if in season two we introduce another battle pack like the battle pack technology is really interesting because it's modular because it's a season pass for people at home and like what does that mean it's a season pass like you would get from a computer game right right so if the battle pack in the base in the core ghb is like that all extends okay this is what we're playing for the next year and then if in the season two book they go also here's a different battle pack you can use but maybe it's more narrative or maybe it explores a different way or plays with some wacky different rules but it's sort of not really tuned to be the kind of match play one it's more like what we got in thandia which I think was a brilliant battle pack because no tournament's really going to use it unless they're a narrative tournament which is exactly what you want so that means the majority of people who are just going to go that people will play at their home if they want to but they're not going to need to know it to go out to speak the common language right that's still the ghb battle pack so if they do the right stuff in these where they don't force the change every six months but they expand the options without the necessity it could be really positive so it's all about what they put in there okay and that's that's the key point for me because actually if we take so I think it's fair to say that 40k is larger than age sigma yeah significantly so and the thing that you've been like motivated by because it's the same system of people sure although it's different obviously like actual designers create the system for releasing this obviously they've done this with 40k already and now they've moved into age sigma with 40k the quality is absolutely in the bin yeah like it's just copy and paste in some situations sure there's no real changes this new 40k one that they're doing has effectively effectively sorry invalidated a bunch of rules that you got in your old books that the the secondaries that you could take sure now all gone out of your book and they're now in this book that you you know you kind of have to buy I think ultimately I think paying to play every six months at an absorbent price would be okay don't shoot me chat don't shoot me would be okay if the quality was okay what have you done for 30 pounds every six months yeah sure like what amazing stuff am I gonna get out of this but it we both know yeah and we'll give them the benefit of the doubt but when it comes back to we'll come back to this conversation yeah we both know it's going to be the same pretty much yeah like I mean how does the like the battle balance for three are just the battle plans for two different names in some situations I look by point is there is a world okay where this is good design it's not as what my point is simply with you I agree with you yeah I'm saying that they don't put anything into the process right we have to see the process actually work and provide with both the right mix of options but not necessities okay and if we can hit that in the right balance then this is a perfectly way to a good way to operate right it's not as though like from the jump selling two books per year that are like that are construed as seasons is just like a rotten idea of the core right my point is it's not as though look I understand we all we all want new stuff and yet don't want new stuff it's the perpetual cycle we live in that is war gamers there's two things we hate change and the way things are okay about the thing but the thing is is again like it's execution the execution will be poor is my point and and the thing is like and the thing is what I'm most interested in again like for me that 61 cycle is really excellent for two on two fronts one I feel it makes more engaging games when I go do live coverage sure and also gives me more content to talk about so it's actually a huge benefit to me sure yeah on a personal level but I think for a huge swath of people like it's like oh that's what there's more stuff I don't know like and also I tweeted about this a couple of days ago and I'm sure you saw it I said like there should be a year-long roadmap because armies take a phenomenally long amount of time that's totally true to produce upon the tabletop and when the goalposts get moved so quickly and so poorly like that becomes a real issue in my mind for the for the general population like and that's all it is like no we're always it's always good to keep an eye to the casual person right by the way this vampire is amazing I just want to like I know he's up on screen where all of the vampires they've done have been great yeah like this dude looks awesome I really really like this guy and again look at the paint style of the this is using true metals but what a different paint style they've executed here yeah this very like worn battered like brown metal I don't know of another model I've seen painted like this right so this because again this is not my my area of expertise like that you think that there's a lot more like painting design gone into this yeah yeah I really do yeah trust in absolutely so anyways back to the the GHP talk here's what I'm saying I'm not willing to write it off yet I don't agree with you will time will be the judge right history will will be the ultimate judge of who of us is right and who of us is is is I don't think we're disagreeing I think we both agree the process is good yes right I don't think we're disagreeing at all I just said that based on the current quality that we've seen for a much larger game system 40k and based on the quality of work that we've seen done from them in other areas through AOS 3 which I think has been a great addition see I'm actually I'm hopeful for that same reason the AOS 3 books have been banger after banger but they they're not going to do age of Sigma community times 30 pounds worth of death every six months that's what I'm saying like when you when you ask because we did we went through the same process on the 40k show when they did it for the 40k sure I said what are you going to do for an additional 30 pounds every year yeah like and you're like I'm going to make it sing and dance and do I'm like cool we could get there there is a way to do it I'm going to hold out hope Rob yeah no and me too I would like it in a way that I think could be good for casuals yeah because listen when they put out season oh look a little death master guy that's not what he called him before it's the same dude but he's not the death master he was the death master before no but his name was like death something of something something oh okay um listen when season three the boys come out june 3rd yeah but if they were just like you have to pay for this now you're going to pay for it because you're excited of course yeah because I would believe I don't expect it to be quality yeah but if season three of love island comes out I'm not paying for it that's what I'm trying to say the process is not a problem yeah the quality of the process is the problem I get it I get it oh we're just doing the wrap up we're doing the look back we're doing the look up which is now odds on I'm feeling by the way great guys on the three books I'm feeling that we're going to get the animation this is where we should be oh okay we leave on the animation I really love those really like the two sylvaneth units I got to say they were good like I've got a sylvaneth army might be time to to pick up some of these units and crack it back out again oh really the the problem will be how much do I need to care about stupid trees that's why I shelved myself these are these are the winners for me these guys are great these are the standout for me I've always been a chaos fanboy at heart sure um and I mean I have every chaos army okay well excellent yeah I even have a nerdal army out somehow accidentally I just don't have a Sinesh army so uh you're missing the best one that's the only one I don't have well you're missing the second best one okay which is the best skaven of course but these these would tempt me these would tempt me uh to to rock into some slaves of darkness because there's some phenomenal units in there and phenomenal uh you could do a phenomenal army out of it I think which would be really fun yeah so here's the question Rob are you ready okay we only saw the one skaven that is the clearly the hero in the FOMO box okay so here is my question for you obviously we're getting these two books do we have more skaven stuff coming that we didn't see here no okay now you say that you say that but keep in mind we didn't see the boat man until very late that's true right they they sat on the boat man for a while clearly what we saw here is what's going to be in the FOMO box which is probably going to be announced like you know relatively soon that's why they're showing it oh okay no I thought we were gonna get no we're getting more more preview just more stuff okay more preview yeah so all right right on yep so I I will consider first of all I'm glad we did see more than just the two heroes that we were getting like basically what is that three you're four units four units three kids three kids yeah there we go for Sylvanath so that's awesome super stoked about that um I'm gonna hold out hope that we're gonna get some more skaven stuff somewhere and they're just they're sitting on it okay okay they want to they want to let the box go first whatever units come in the box for skaven those aren't getting redone okay so when we look at the FOMO box we'll know okay those are those aren't being redone right I don't personally I don't think we see more skaven this year I would like to listen I'm on the I'm on the page where we understand like to I think that I just don't think that that's where their thoughts are at the minute in releases because especially the cover art really makes me feel that way as well like the daughter's cane book feels like it's going to be pretty pretty copy paste to be honest I feel like that they're easy wins financially and also like we talked about the we talked about the one of the things I would like to disavow us off as a community and as a group in some ways is it's sure it's nice they're doing another GHB if you're so inclined but ultimately there's a P&L sheet where they're like another 30 pounds a year is great for us sure yeah like and I hate I hate the idea that we're just getting something like when you do get copy and paste books which I think we will see a couple of times this year because they're just going through the motions again about I think again some which could be and in some cases I'm okay with that as long as they do the necessary tweaks of the parts they're wrong there are some existing books from 2.0 we have that are just really good books they're like 80% there yeah yeah that's great books so copy paste that 80% I don't care just fix the other 20 and I'm happy to I'm happy and you know move everything 3.0 and I'm paid jobs good and I'm excited I'm not I don't think I should I don't think I should pay them full whack for an update for an update I understand the nature of the world I get it like I don't think it's a full whack for an update like because when you especially because as games workshops grown but also warhammer age sigma 40k have grown to such a significant degree which is excellent super excited about that for them and for the company and for the company the hobby and also the IP I'm excited for all of those things and the people involved in it yeah but I think when you are making when you are making money hand over fist that should go into dev like that should go into improving stuff and being like oh look we've really thought this through like we're like this is a new iterative version of like this or we're doing something new not just an update because in a computer game you would get your brand new levels you would do your whole thing which I'm I'm good with and by the way I think that they that's where I want to see that exploration in stuff like the season of war books oh me too by the way I want to and I want to see I want to see them put the effort into the armies that need complete rewrites okay slanesh one of the reasons I don't think that book is coming anytime soon is because you got to start by taking that entire existing book and throw it in the bin okay yeah like it's it is unusable in its current form like you got a bin every page she likes me I can't handle she likes you she's one of my favorite miniatures ever made by games workshop so cool so incredibly cool and the fact that her spear is her spear is one attack I love that likes my heart yes right it breaks my heart like I'll be if you want I'll stand outside with a sign every day like it's every day where is she likes to attack by the way I love how like okay you got a stormcast person how many swords are they holding they've got a sword in their hand how many swords are they holding yeah one one how many attacks is that weapon have five yeah yeah well that standard standard well a standard like a standard stormcast hero now is like five attacks three threes neg one two yeah okay that's the that's the stormcast lord profile right you got a giant he's got a big giant club he's got one club in his hands makes 10 attacks with it right but they looked at the entire slinish range and were like two claws two attacks one stick one attack and like just direct translation for no reason none it was one of my favorite tone but anyways my it's complete rubbish top to bottom so my point is is that they've got to take they've got to take that book back to formula so like okay cool take longer on that one right like do the work to give me a nergal style and this is where and this is where we agree on the the process being amazing yeah but i don't agree that's the only thing because we've i've had this conversation about 40k just going to the ghp and that's it very excited about the silverness book i'm a silverness player some people say i'm the original silver player but whatever yeah like very excited about silver you were in the video i was in the video yeah like um and so big fan of silverness big big fan big fan of scaven as well sure like and you know and like we talked about straight at the top of the show like i like the scaven book massively just need some tweaks and i think it's good yeah but if i'm giving them that much money for a book yeah i want you to make me want to buy it sure do you know what i mean like because like and that's what streaming has done and piracy and a bunch of stuff over the past 15 years we as consumers we were because 30 pounds is a lot of money which could be a set of miniatures and ultimately when i know that book goes out of date in six months yep like and i know that miniature doesn't go out of date well eventually it'll go out of date but it doesn't go out there for a long time i'm asking myself where my resources are going so you have to buy like it's a sale like it's a sale you're a salesman like it's not default i'm not buying it by default i totally get it i totally get it you know you're you're absolutely right my point is that i don't yeah i don't need you to reinvent the wheel when it comes to the the the books that were really well done yeah okay like i don't want them to throw all of the good rules and the good play and the nice design don't throw that in the bin i agree okay keep all of that but focus in on really making it a unique experience like for those good books they should be focusing on making them really great books yes right because when you're starting from such a place yeah we're gonna jump over to website i'm gonna try and find this this article yeah okay when we're starting from such a good place where the army is already pretty strong yeah and the book is already very well designed right which that that exists the current slaves darkness i would argue is one of those books yeah okay um what you think i what sorry what's the statement about the slave stones book is that it was a good book not a great book but a good okay book yeah okay like it had a lot of good ideas in it there were stuff that was wrong okay no that's not i didn't say it was a perfect book let's not please don't mishear me that's why your point about chaos warriors and chaos knights would be my number one thing on the list the iron wall that is the center of chaos has basically been invisible for most of most of this but they should also be deadly like i don't understand it why am i not running in fear of ten chaos warriors absolutely no i i get it i get bull because we've got our own super like your chaos warriors are old stuff we forged our own warriors out of lightning that are much better now what the chaos have what do i run in fear from from chaos i don't know baron guard i guess ten grippily pink idiots that that causes me to run in terror so but my point is is that it was a good book okay so fantastic when it's good then we can take the time to make it great yeah because we only should need to focus in on the 30 percent that was a miss identify the miss as well and then calibrate accordingly and give us a great book right like okay take the scaven book i don't need much change to the doom wheel like literally it's got some good rules i would want to see a little more damage oh really yeah it doesn't quite do enough it needs a little more damage in its actual like kind of melee and especially attacks because that's often where or maybe it's shooting attacks maybe a little bit more here there and i would want to see the risk reward rule on the reroll your move changed because the logical risk reward is to always overdo the overcharge the shooting and never reroll your move because it's just your statistical chance of getting a one on any of four dice is about 50 i've reroll that move and had the best time i understand like i've seen it done i saw it later two weeks ago the rat bros came and played here and one of them was ready to do wheels and he rerolled it and it's the risk is the his face yes because it's a 50 50 chance yeah very nearly so exciting yeah that should be what games are games should have that pure adrenaline rush on the dice roll it should be a junky moment which is i think scaven do super well right i think other books do badly i'm just saying you need to you need to turn those odds down it should be if you roll two ones they get to move it see it's that little rob yeah that slight change in probability would actually make that rule still super tense but it would statistically knock it down to where it's it's at the right layer where you're where a logical person takes the risk reward it's not safety there's always risk okay right it's that's the same thing like overcharging your rally guns right where it's like if you roll doubles okay well your doubles are about a 16 chance that's your chance every time you overcharge that there's a 16 percent chance you blow that thing up that's perfect and that's great that's where you want it because everybody's going to do that every time and then you're going to get like oh no boom you know and that's what's going to happen if you make it if you like we learned this if you make 50 50 risk rewards where on the downside you basically lose the unit and on the upside you get some small bonus no one does it people stop using the fun rules that's true you've got to tune those risk rewards so that everybody always wants to do it every time everybody always takes the risk so that way the army starts feeling like it should yeah right because people are just always doing the risky thing the majority of people right because everybody has different risk tolerance but then the majority of people are doing it and then the army feels like it should all right let's talk about what do we got here what's on this that's on this the catch up okay so uh the general time but also includes pitch battle profiles booklet featuring updated points and other battlefield notes now I know you're asking yourself but they said the points are going online free and it's because and this is super important the decision to put the points online for free has come after they put sent this book to date which would have been over a year ago so when you think okay how did they balance the game they did it based on information from over a year ago yeah sure um so that's why it's always terrible uh the more arms are more accessible more than but can we just take a moment I want to say I can't like I literally just went on a rant saying there's no way they're not going to charge your points and then at the same time I was speaking they were like no no all points are free they made the right choice they did I think it's because like you're right they've made the right choice can we just unmitigatedly say they did the right thing you sure yeah I don't care why they did it I don't care what happened it is the correct choice and I'm glad it's like when I get caught with my hands in the cookie jar and someone's like did you are you stealing cookies I'm like I am stealing I made the right choice to fess up in that moment like some would say that it's after the fact but it doesn't it doesn't matter it doesn't matter this volume is no different uh but while the update profiles are still included in the book they'll also be available for free on the wire racing map where they are currently already free so are they wait are they pitching the thing that already exists I mean kind of but they're saying that like we're going to push the updates there yes you'll have all the points yes those are not going to be behind a payroll that's what they're confirming because that had been a thing that people were afraid of recently okay all right so more arms are more accessible than ever but that's not all catch up with the rest of two's reveals oh no that's it okay so so basically the website as you can see because they want to get their P&L as high as possible oh my gosh this separate click thing so baby baby that the guy who's in charge of getting the most clicks to this website this is so funny the month he's like I smashed it this month I've done so much extra good work this to me is hilarious of moving everything to separate articles so they get more clicks I have never there there's a so I do a lot of work in my normal job with data analytics okay and we talk a lot about like you can't improve what you don't measure but there's a dark side to that too that's a double-edged sword the statement is you can't improve what you don't measure but you will do what you do measure so make sure you're measuring the right things right and this is the best example of that dark side I've ever seen in play it should be it should only ever be how many of the visitors buy a thing right should be the only metric they look at but that isn't obviously what they're basing on so we've got so the ghp one it's got a truck on the front so we're seeing that okay the thing to talk about really quickly that they did we did hear them say is that it's going to be all about battle line units so just for everyone at home who might not be aware the current edition of hcmark is about monsters yes it's all about monsters it's about like well it's not actually about monsters that does like we can get into the nitty-gritty about that actually the fact that his monsters actually does zero it doesn't matter the game right now is encouraging you to have like large elite monsters or monster not monsters not flat monster heroes and and elite type of units that is the current sort of incentive i don't it's an incentive but i don't think it like that's how it plays out is often different but that is the current incentive yeah but the next incentive is going to be we will give you something for your battle line units or if your battle line units will do a thing there's a problem in that though it's all battle lines are not created equal this is definitely true this is definitely true uh so it'll be really fun to see if um if it's battle line if it's battle line if uh sure yeah yeah like my guess is if you've inherited the battle line role for any reasons probably what it's going to do which will be interesting how much effect that has they also mentioned you're going to want to have big units so my guess rob is we're not just going to see it based on like battle line or battle line if because that doesn't do a lot when i can take my dracothean guard when i can take my fulminators right i haven't changed anything about the nature of the game and what's up 52 minutes it's good to see you buddy and um but the but if they say imagine if to get the bonus points you've got to be a reinforced unit or a double reinforced unit or something like that right now all of a sudden we're encouraging little weedy dudes because in general you don't take like six packs of fulminators you type that's that's not a winning strat okay but you might take 30 30 witch elves yeah i let you sit before and like we just talked about the monsters it's all about whether or not they actually incentivize you enough risk versus reward in that situation yes so that'll be excited to see not exciting to see uh hordes actually be super important because uh ladies and gentlemen boys and girls painted hordes is a torturous experience sometimes i i feel like it's all the unless you're you love it yeah i painted 70 daemonettes and it was wonderful i had a very pleasurable experience don't you have like 250 interviews with artists about painting yeah wouldn't you say you're fairly on the painting i didn't say i'm the metric to judge by i have 150 clan rats i don't know what to tell you man but like yeah so yeah we're looking forward to see and maybe we'll see some units take up which previously we don't see on the tabletop because the thing i'm excited about and i will always be pro this i like what they're doing with the ghbs specifically the monsters and the and the whole thing even if it doesn't necessarily work out i like that they're intentionally creating diversification so i buy one book whatever that book might be let's pick zinch yeah i've got some monsters not very good more let's take the beast your poor thing but like i've got zinch and i can run monsters then next year i'm like cool i'm going to run zango like i'm gonna run zango i'm gonna rescribe i can't say that i'm ever gonna run them anyway but like you know there's all pink horrors but like it gives me the option to diversify inside my own book which i think is really exciting because especially for this edition we went into it and you were like well the army doesn't have a monster right like you know we're just about to get a night horn they don't have a monster right right right like unless more girl gets an update which would be really cool to see well that or if they take the new incarnate guy which i hate and that's a whole different thing because the incarnate was the worst part of the idea oh the incarnate is the worst part of warhammer age the sigma at the moment i think that's played against i think that's probably it sucks uh but um yeah i'm looking forward to uh seeing that because that gives people who play some ability to like just diversify their army and play style which i think is cool and also from a skilled perspective as well you guys might not be aware this is something i'm super keen on but i really like skill expression the ability to play well and that doesn't mean being a power gamer which is a dumb statement made by dumb people like i like the idea like here's that's idiot if you're like i could say that about black bases i could say that about people who say they were power gamer um but the idea of being able to express skill is really important because you know when i say i'm a power gamer i mean like the 1990s nintendo ads or the dude put on the power glove because that's how i play warhammer i put on put on the power glove like let's do this let's hack but but also some people like some people jump between the same army but different styles yeah let's say you play in mega gargants sure because you previously played all fleshy courts dragons sure then you play triple more crusher yeah you're like dude you're just doing the same thing all over like if you encourage people to to change their skill sets i know that i always build castle armies and it'll be really fun um to see if i can do that again um but also like i've tried really hard like darren's taken a list of worlds for example he played here a couple of weeks ago and i know that's that's stylistically very different like oh and i know for example um who i think i'm seeing this weekend he was running the gash for like the oh and jackson yeah yeah during 15 like a to signal tournaments but now he's actually running a more msu army and that requires different skill sets to play and i think that's really good because if you accidentally encourage the casual base to just be like oh i'm oh 30 is actually really difficult to move around you like cool that's really fun i would like to see two inch coherency that not too incoherency let's see coherency changes in the ghb if we're going for hordes yeah i've no absolutely i agree i mean we could make some coherency a lot better with like one change like i could i could like with this sharpie i could fix probably like a fair amount of the coherency challenges in the game i agree not all but like i would i would take this sharpie and where there's the number five in there of units of like less than five use old good style coherency i would just come in with a sharpie and like and just make that a six or 11 sure so like i've got there are there are like average versions of this up to good versions of this right they're like baremen changes i changed that five to a six i just kind of like i just kind of like trump on the hurricane map it put that little little squiggle in there i really enjoy is the game designers like they go and play like they're like oh the 40k boys like do you fancy a quick game of 40k like all right cool yeah and they're like oh i've got some guys in a second record can't fight they're like oh no 40k you can just fight if the other guy's close enough yeah i mean we're never going to do that because then they'll have to arrange you're like look that will never happen next to each other no can i not cross over because there are 1100 war scrolls with ranges written on them and nobody rob nobody's writing 1100 war scrolls you got to stop you know this oh my god they should know that will never happen for a week nope never gonna happen you can probably get it done on fiver for like 30 quid that might be but it's not gonna happen so so we're sticking with the ranges but yes moving it to six or 11 for coherency would be the good fix and that would make our lives a lot better honestly with like 30 dudes you don't actually generally worry i don't i find coherency like the current coherency style i find it pretty like nothing when i have 30 packs i was like i've run several hordes and the trick is you just got so many people and if you if you actually play in a sort of cloud e-way or you've kind of got a cloud you're always in coherency it's not an issue yeah i agree i think also one of the things that they um uh one of the things that they also do which i think is super important is they create the coherency issue to deal with the problem that maybe maybe existed maybe didn't exist and it still exists right now now i i'm like every list if you guys don't know every monday i go through all of the event results from each of my tournaments around the world on the aoe stat center that's what i do every time and one of the things that i see all the time now is just like a cavalry base five cavalry bases in a line for a hundred points oh absolutely like and i'm like and i like cab just became the chaff just in a line yeah of course like they're like they're pulling up at a taxi stand at a hotel like they're doing like they're just walking in a column somewhere and it doesn't look very sensible um and i think that's the thing we gotta go we are we off we're good i got a few minutes oh okay all right perfect uh so big takeaway for you like i mean i think it was all great and positive truthfully yeah i would have liked to see a little more i i i knew we weren't gonna see anything from the autumn books because and i'll tell you why i knew we weren't gonna see anything from the autumn books because they never intended us to know about the autumn book roadmap of course right they were that that was their hand being forced by the release of the slaves to darkness leagues so like we should have been sitting here with no concept that those four books are on the other side of this yeah which but i feel i'm glad we are actually i'm a super glad about it the i rolling six month rob for my job one of the things i am in charge of is our roadmap it's literally what i spend a lot of my time doing i've heard from online sources which i think a genius is that roadmaps actually detract from sales this is not true oh what people people in fact especially what now my business is obviously different but you know people in fact have to set budgets like and and and think about what they're going to want to purchase in the future i'm i'm losing my mind i know this is really revelatory information i i understand uh this is stuff about this we should just have a rolling six months uh roadmap yeah i would like a person i would be fine with the year i'm just saying if we started rolling six i'd be good like i'll constantly rolling six oh okay like updated on the quarter yeah yeah like until we're fully out of the pandemic global shipping kind of nonsense right i mean remember like china just went back into lockdown again with a couple weeks back like it's stuff in the world is still happening folks like whatever you think is going on in your neck of the woods i hope everything's good in your other words and everything's fine and you're out and about having a good time and that's fine but that's not the case all over the world and that impacts things right it it does it does impact them but guess what also like solves that issue really easy it's like hey we couldn't get these books because of this issue and everyone goes all right cool yeah oh no on that i'm with you yeah like if you just be transparent and talk about those i i agree shareholders don't okay all right yeah um okay so we've got some looking to the mortal realms uh normal humans offer vital windows of the world's a war hammer because they've said there's one thing um i'll start at the top more ordinary complex worlds of high magic and impossible vices blah blah blah so the age of sigmar has been a mighty stormforged warriors against the martial swords elves etc but there's one more thing that's been missing regular dudes normal humans offer a vital window to the worlds of war hammer when demigods clash with demon princes it's the perspective of these mere mortals that give us the frame of reference to help us imagine the scale one 40 000 we compare them to galaxies myriad horrors to the humble guardsman uh the same it's true the mortal realms and while the miniatures like vendetta and the melda baskow uh from the quest have shown us the cool humans competing this year so cool very cool um uh they've always been a rare among among our releases it's time for that to change and we reimagine the forces of common humanity in the cities of sigmar organizing the fractious free cities is no easy task so it's still quite a way off there we go next year but we don't intend to sit around and wait over the coming months you'll follow these uh who take up the coin malias uh a sacred symbolic payment given to members of adornment crusade we've even managed it's very english vince oh i know like it's very english you all can't help yourselves like uh it's very english it's all english and you hire english people i just like i feel like yeah i mean it's why we got the giants we did because you all are like oh giants are like fairy tale things they climb beanstalks and i'm like that's not giants man nobody outside of this island thinks of giants like that that's not what you are it yeah okay yeah it's it's really interesting culturally being inside england and also being aware of england in itself sure and they can't help themselves uh here's some uh sneaky stuff which will be on pot goes the monkey tomorrow i'm sure uh these are some of the symbols that will come with your models uh can i just say something i actually look a lot of 3d renders like i know that you look at a lot of 3d skills as well but i i do a show every month where i look at 3d scopes from different patreon designers and these remind these are very like titan forge esk for they are painted up where they're very clean and very like they don't have a lot of texture right uh i quite like a lot of the designers that use added texture i know you don't agree you'd like right i'm i'm a smooth guy yeah i'm a rich you're a texture guy you like the ridges i like it smooth um but like i guess once this gets painted up we'll add a lot of texture to that yeah i yes absolutely yeah so and i this is the kind of stuff i want to see i love that they're showing us this you know year more out i love that we're gonna see this i love that we're getting a sister's a battle style journey into the new relaunch of the humans in this realm that's right yeah i agree i agree i would like to i would like to see more story from that that element of the realms because i think actually that's the the great untap market yeah in the mortal realms yeah i would argue totally agree all right let's get you let's get you off to your meetings right on i think that's what we've got to do chat uh vince thanks for being on uh the show and doing this together it was super fun oh my gosh rob absolute pleasure i was very happy to join you here in command and control in the spaceship uh and here in spaceship tsn uh it's great it's an easy setup right like uh what no one knows nothing from the waist down in this show sure nothing uh which is good you do have pants on just to confirm for everyone uh right anyway uh thank you thank you you want to make hey for everybody who's watching on both streams thank you everybody who watched over on my channel thank you rob for setting this up uh hello uh rob's cultists it's very nice to meet or to join you on all the show i would join rob i would join your show like like i'm glad you turned into it i'm like whatever like if we're a cult whatever because honestly i'm a crew best crew if you didn't do your show it's such an god awful time early in my time in the morning i'd dude i'd hang out with you every single morning anytime you streamed day or night it's an absolute pleasure same same it's lovely to have you on lovely to share the space with you uh it's been a delight thanks very much i hopefully i don't know if i get to see you more over the weekend because you are you're not to say that you're at the yeah i'm at the heresy event this weekend yeah which is why vince is over here in the uk so like we're going to be hearing more from you are you doing any posts or is that how can we find out anything you might be doing over the next couple of days i don't know i'll like i said i'll be at wherever world on for the open day for heresy day on saturday yes uh and so i mean like i'll be around uh probably tomorrow i don't i don't even know man well i'm just saying for people listening to me wanna listen yeah i doubt i'll have i don't think i'll have any more content but i know that you'll see me in like the interviews and stuff like that so all right excellent i'm looking forward to that a lot so anyway chat what up love you see you tomorrow see you soon bye bye bye