 We'll call the roll-up. We'll call the 14th regular meeting of the common council to order So would you call the roll please Bowman Burke Bonaire Serta graph Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson Rindflesh Segali Stefan Van Akron Vander wheel and Warner 15 present Corms present All in one word Well, thank you, honor move the minutes of the last common council meeting be approved that the same stand has entered on the record It's been moved in a second at minutes of the past council meeting stand to prove under discussion Hearing none all in favor Opposed Motion carried pledged allegiance this evening. We have troop 804 from first congregational church The scouts would you come up to the front please and lead us in a pledge pledge allegiance to the flag Okay, we have one notice this evening on agenda and that will be held over so we'll hold that for now We have one hearing this evening, and that's the men the zoning map to change the use district classification of property Located at 22 18 Julesson court any interested persons who should be heard Any interested persons wishing to be heard if you'd like to be heard Please step up to the microphone and give us your name and address please Hold them in order. Thank you honor move the hearings be closed We're motion to second before it's under discussion Hearing none all in favor closed motion carried mayor's appointments This is dated today's date to hereby submit the following appointment for your consideration Fran Berg to be considered for appointment to the mayor's special international committee to fill the unexpired term of Jane Wong Coucher whose term expires 430 05 signed by the mayor That will lie over Sue public forum Yes, first is John Burner. Would you please step up to the mic? Mr. Burner, can you give me your home address, please and city and state? 1919 Broadway 1919 Broadway. Yes, Shabuigan, Wisconsin. Okay. Thank you. You have five minutes, please You have five minutes. Okay. If I run over at a one extra time just tell me to stop Okay, I wrote down some notes and this is on 14th Street Park and when we have people here trying to save the park we had dealing No buildings on it. You could sit there if wants the water trees larger than What's on 14th Street all gone now? You see rocks a marina cyclone fence Nothing you can't even see out of there anymore didn't see if people there 14th Street is the central location for a police station. I Don't like to see a park goal But I'd like to see a park if it is going to be remembered with the police station You have people coming up here and said in one month we got 3,000 names and they multiplied it by this I watched the rest of the Common Council last week And I think you worked on this longer than a month You have during the Common Council meeting when you re-voted when you re-voted on it You had one Common Council meeting saying she he or she voted against it Because then you could sell other parts But I heard the Alderman explain you can't sell parks. The city is not selling a park. It's utilizing a park Had another Common Council member that said it'll only cost us a dollar more That one you can pay the interest on the overrun you went to 23rd Street and That's all I got to say about 14th Street On the city and its budget, I know you're working hard on it. I Think the city is gonna have to do a little restructuring and See about combining things And I was watching the meeting that where the person had spoke before the Common Council meeting I was at today tonight and somebody would spoke car, right? and I listened to him say that Unions are gonna have to give concessions, okay But what about management? What about? The people on the top they must have a contract. I know they have a pay freeze right now, right? But that isn't a giveaway. I mean that's not taking something that's something they've never gotten So you're not really taking something away from I mean if you want lower people to take cuts The top people got to take cuts to our and It's gentlemen before if I get a little interwound here because I listen to him saying that the Sheriff's Department should Come you know if the police need help that because it's What we pay the county that the county Sheriff's Department should help in some way with inter Twining them You have detectives on a police off police force And you have police officers the detectives Go out and fry and try to find and bring a case against the drug haulers your police officer are Doing another job and when you cut one you're taking away from another and I Can't see it. I think that would be the last thing to do Is is hurt the police because you're hurting the citizens and It's sit there and say I heard the gentleman say that fees for non-profit organizations In a certain respect I agree, but you have churches which count on The people who already pay a fee now they're gonna have to pay another fee to help the church That's like double taxation It is the churches get their money from the people Brought fries and bingo City brought fries and bingo extra money, right? That's all I got to say. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Tom Gessler Tom Gessler Okay Okay, the next one is Gina Steinhart Gina Gina can you give me your home address with city and state also, please sure 1311 Maryland Avenue. Okay. Sheboygan, Wisconsin. Thank you, and you will have five minutes. Okay I'm here today for two reasons number one to thank the Common Council for their efforts on tackling the traffic problems on Maryland Avenue Particularly, I would like to thank Silas Vanderwill for all of his help in our neighborhood even though it isn't his He isn't our assigned Alderman I've been working on problems in our neighborhood for about two years now Starting with the addition of the four-way stop signs and crosswalks at 13th in Maryland I had emailed Juan Perez originally in 2002 He forwarded those emails to the Common Council and the improvements began slowly, but surely We've also managed to get stop signs added to the northeast and southeast corners of Sheridan Park Limited parking signs installed on 13th Street and Maryland Avenue And now the newest changes with a one-way street and no truck signs that Silas has implemented My neighbors and I appreciate all that the council has done for us, especially Silas who's made himself available when others would not My second reason is that I've been in touch with many neighbors since all of these improvements have begun I walked around and asked their opinions on the police station and on the park in general Very few of these neighbors have seen anyone else but me Concerning these issues and we all think that if anybody should have any say in deciding the park's fate It should be the neighbors rather than about five percent of the entire city of Cheboygan Realized that about over 3,000 people have signed a petition and their opinions are very important But my neighbors feel that their opinions have been lost in the media blitz and political controversy of it all I've been asked by about 15 homeowners on Maryland Avenue 13th Street and Illinois Avenue to speak for them There has been much misinformation floating around including expansion plans demolition of the entire park parking problems street closures All sorts of things I Think the best way to handle this situation would be to publicize the actual plans for the police station Including the location of the building the underground parking plan the future expansion plans Plans to handle any water or sewer problems arising from the new building That kind of thing if there is no actual blueprint at this time Even a rough outline of what would be planned would be extremely helpful in stopping rumors from being accepted as facts The council has also mentioned that there will be an area for a new park But not specifically about where it actually will be located and what will be there Since only a few of the members of the Common Council have been able to check out the north south and especially the east sides of the park I've brought some pictures to show all of you some of the major concerns about these borders sure These pictures are mainly the wooded area that is just across 13th Street on the east side of the park Most of them show what is visible from the sidewalk and where many children end up playing when bored of the limited amount of play equipment at Sheridan Park To begin with the sidewalks themselves are in very bad repair and often have glass littered all over Which makes it unsafe for everyone in the neighborhood, especially the children Right off the sidewalks trails into the wooded area are obviously used a lot as they are not just visible But they're trampled down considerably by those using them They are being used by the children as evidenced by the toys Forts and miscellaneous items strewn about along with the garbage and pallets scattered throughout the wooded area Even though it is clearly marked by private property signs, which also say no skateboards bicycles dogs loitering or dumping It is obvious that these signs don't stop those who use this area Some neighbors have even reported seeing old mattresses there in the past These also might be some of the areas where the drug dealing is occurring. Would you want your children playing in there? Besides the traffic concerns on the east and especially the west side of the park due to the high volume of traffic on 14th Street another picture On that boards shows the neighbors on the north side trying to deal with the drug dealers Neighbors against drugs has been pretty successful on that side over the last year Bringing the drug houses down from 15 to 2 according to Todd preby Many neighbors of mine know exactly where the drug houses are on our end of the park and are anxiously waiting the day when NAD Helps us begin the battle on our side. I have police records here that show Exactly what crimes have been occurring on the streets bordering the park to summarize this report from the years 2000 to 2004 18 drug-related crimes 18 thefts for burglaries three weapon violations and 29 property damage reports were made Concerning the drug charges the trend has shown a marked increase from 2002 to the present This year alone the weapons violations your five minutes are up. Oh okay, I Just wanted to say that the safety is the main issue here and my neighbors and I are in favor of the police department due To the condition of the area. Thank you. Thanks to you. Thank you Before we get into the consent agenda, I have something I would like just like to read to you briefly So bear with me for about two minutes here Good evening everyone as all of us realized rising costs for providing health insurance continues to be a struggle for all our For all our our employers both in public and private sector The city of Sheboygan is no different and once again this year the cost of health insurance places a strain on our budgetary priorities Two weeks ago. I presented a budget to all of you for review and since then it has been making its way through the budget process a Long-term approach to lowering the cost of health insurance is needed and thus far. No one has found a silver bullet However, we do have a group that is meeting regularly to explore all options and reduce the cost of health insurance to the city It's taxpayers and employees Much attention needs to be focused on how we deliver insurance to our employees. I would expect also That events on the state and federal level would affect our decisions in course of action. I Do believe however, we must take action in a short term to alleviate the impact of health insurance on our city budget Thus I am proposing an increase in an employee contribution towards health insurance premium for all city employees With council approval this can't take place January 1st 2005 for non represented employees and I am directing Ed Zurich our human resource director To also negotiate this as part of our current union collective marketing There are additional changes in deductibles and co-pays that can save substantial dollars, which I also would like to see negotiated Again, I emphasize the importance of long-term solutions regarding the distribution of health insurance costs for all our city employees However as recipients of this benefit, we must share in reducing this burden on the city taxpayers in our budget Ed Zurich has informed me on an upcoming presentation on November 4th and meet public library and It was he just told me it was referred at 2 o'clock rather than 3 He anyone wishing to attend be there at 2 o'clock rather than 3 and a presentation will be made by Dave newbie The topic of this presentation will be health insurance and concepts of providing it more cost effectively Second as part of our city's budget process I am proposing using an additional 100,000 of city reserves to offset the tax levy outlined in my proposal two weeks ago This amount will not adversely affect our city's bond rating yet. It will provide relief to our city taxpayers Through ongoing discussions and reviews of city operations I look forward to the acceptance of a budget that is responsible and Reasonable in the upcoming weeks Thank you with that consent agenda All the men Warner, but thank you honor I move that all our roles be accepted and placed on file or seas be accepted and adopted and all Resolutions substitute resolutions and ordinances be passed We have a motion to second before us all our O's be accepted and filed our seas be accepted and adopted Resolutions and ordinance be put upon as passages and as from 14 1 through 14 23 but Minus 14 17 18 19 and 20 those have to be referred to finance Got that 17 18 19 and 20 those have to go to finance All the men Van Aker Okay, there's no other discussion You want to call the roll please for the consent yeah you for the consent all women you want a separate separate vote on 14 23 You said right let's do Okay, this is on 14 23 Bowman Berg Bonnet Serta graph Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson Rindflesh Sigali Stefan van Akron Vanderweel and Warner 14 what 14 eyes one abstention Okay, I'm the rest of it Is there any other discussion on the rest of it? Okay, please do Berg Bonnet Serta graph Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson Rindflesh Sigali Stefan van Akron van der wheel Warner and Bowman 15 eyes motion carried 1424 through 1430 to be referred All of my press Thank you very much. I wanted to point out that 1428 should go to finance to I don't know if I will note it Yeah, I do have it on there. Thank you. Yeah, that'll go to public protection and finance and 1428 1431 through 37 to be referred 1438 and 39 has been withdrawn 1440 and 41 lie over 1442 to be referred 1443 by law and licensing recommending the dying beverage operator's license 6552 and 6571 based on failure to cooperate with the committee All of them in one name. Thank you, your honor Make a motion to accept and adopt the report of committee We have a motion a second before a thunder discussion. Thank you, your honor Is a Stacy M. Ross? License number 6552 present Stacy M. Ross is a Sarah Sight's license 6571 present Sarah Sight's The honor they're not present Okay Where we have a motion in the second before us is any other discussion on a motion Not going to call the roll, please Boney. Hi, Serta graph Nanny Montamayor Perez Peterson Rindflash Segali Stefan Then Akron Vander wheel Warner Bowman and Berg 15 eyes motion carried 1444 by law and licensing regarding a scheduled quasi judiciary Hearing to determine whether the class A fermented malt beverage license and cigarette license 2261 held by Soul Should be suspect correct. Yeah, should be suspended or revolved based on the facts and findings Recommends revocation of the license Hallerman Bonnet. Thank you, your honor Make motion to accept and adopt the report of committee We have a motion a second before us under discussion. Thank you, your honor is a Sent a soul hall here. Would you like to speak to the common council? Yeah motion to open the floor for attorney We have a motion before us in a second to open the floor for attorney under discussion Hearing none all in favor. Hi Those motion carried, please Thank you, yeah, mr. Soul Hall had retained me in this endeavor and I had the chance to address the committee last week in regard to the license that we're talking about here in this 1444 and some of the things that I brought up last week I'd like to reiterate tonight that Mr. Soul Hall Has invested thousands of dollars Thousands and thousands of dollars into this gas station that he currently operates He has served thousands and thousands of people He's owned this gas station for a period of about a year and a half and In this year and a half. He's developed a very good business. I've been there I have seen his business. It is very well run. It's clean. It's organized and he has Run it made a very thriving business out of that particular corner what the committee is Recommending here is to revoke mr. Soul Hall's Cigarette license not only a cigarette license, but his Alcohol license even though there has never been an out allegation of any improper sale of any alcoholic beverages The only allegations that we that are before the committee and have been discussed are three separate violations of Selling to underage people In regard to cigarettes cigarette sales I Think that What I had said to the committee is that mr. Soul Hall has gotten the message loud and clear He has put measures in place now to make sure that this is not going to happen ever again. I think taking the License away just revoking his license is going to shut this business down and create a particular blight on this on this corner He cannot survive without the cigarette sales Rightfully or wrongfully he is is able to sell the cigarettes and that is how he has made his business And if you take that That portion of his business away. He is not going to be able to survive The drastic measure that's asked for is just to simply revoke his license, which I don't think that that's the proper measure I think what mr. Soul Hall should be given is another chance and I had proposed to the committee that there would be a Short-term suspension of his license say 10 days with also the provisional that mr. Soul Hall would sign an agreement that if this occurred ever again That he would immediately give up his license He has a child. He has a wife He's like I say he's been in this business for a year and a half prior to coming here to Sheboygan He had been in California where he operated a sex successful business for seven years in the same type of Business and had no violations no problems ever before They what we have seen in in the in the recent past that mr. Soul Hall has simply gotten sloppy But that's not going to happen ever again He has as I said he has put measures in place that this is not going to happen He has a manager that is on duty For about ten hours a day Mr. Soul Hall is on the premises for about eight to ten hours And he also has a person working in the morning that is that has never had a problem So what I'm asking that the committee or the council do is not ratify the committee's finding That the revocation should take place I believe that the community would be well served giving mr. Soul Hall a stern message with a a suspension Even a suspension is going to hit mr. Soul Hall Deeply in the pocket books. He's going to have a hard time with just a suspension Rather than taking his license away the suspension would certainly serve as a hammer on mr Soul Hall's business and certainly serve as a As a very strong message that this is not going to tolerate As I said taking away his license Will cause a Situation in there on that particular corner where the business is It's going to be it's probably going to be full full it up. I Think mr. Soul Hall would also like to briefly address So my name is some folks over and I respect everybody like senior and counselor whatever in committee and senior whatever seen like People live here right now shabagan and listen to me I Mistake this one and How can I do a mistake? I don't know for that one, but I respect everyone I Love I came from California because I come here like shabagan people nice everybody nice here so I Don't know like how can I do mistake and I do mistake? I? Ask me to everybody likes everybody, you know, I Want please give me one chance and If did you get me you Whatever you want to me, you know, you put me jail or this and that I Agree with you and I respect you every senior Anybody come over there to my gas station. I love my friends. I never feel like you know people come over there like He's not customer. I like like three to my friends but You are on the side, you know, I don't know say anything Everybody's tea here, right? I have my daughter. I Have other my baby come very soon. So I don't know where I go. So you decide Okay, thank you, sir All of it bonie Thank you, honor our committee came across the situation and We're resolved to the fact that I mean even in the statements that were made tonight This individual singled out underage individuals sold them cigarettes for amounts in excess on purpose he was caught in a sting and We commit actions there's needs be accountability associated with that our committee was very resolved that this is not acceptable behavior in our community It occurred twice Then three times he came to our committee after the second time said that it would never happen again That whatever was necessary needs to be done he would do This is strictly a predatory practice and I find it unacceptable in our community He claims his I his attorney says he was sloppy mr. So Hall says he made mistakes Predatory practice and singling our children to sell them Products which are restricted from there from their possession. It is not sloppy or mistake. That's simply wrong And he needs to be held accountable for that and that's why our committee came to the conclusion that this license should be certain revocation Thank you, all of them. They all of them in Van Halen. Thank you, your honor I've ordered against this in committee, and I'm gonna tell you why I Believe that mr. So Hall should be punished and loses cigarette and alcohol license If you possess morals in common sense to feel that people who sell cigarettes to minors should be punished to the point Where they can no longer sell to minors Simply revoking his license will not do this All revoking his license will do is create a shell game that we cannot control We have been led to believe that mr. So Hall's uncle Will start the procedure which would make him the owner of the gas station that is located Within walking distance of a high school and a middle school is obvious to me that mr. So Hall will be selling cigarettes under the ownership of his uncle If we revoke the license with terms that would terminate mr. So Hall's license when he sells it We can put in a stipulation indicating that mr. So Hall cannot be part of the new business. I Feel that is the best interest of the city to make sure that mr. So Hall can no longer be part of a business that is in walking distance from a high school and a middle school Minors should not be sold addictive substances period The only way we can guarantee that mr. So Hall cannot sell tobacco from this location is to apply these stipulations I wish to amend the motion to revoke to include To suspend the license for 30 days at the end of 30 days the license may be transferred to a new corporate entity which the former agent of Singh petroleum Santal So Hall Has no connection either as an agent director shareholder or employee The new entity to which the license will be transferred must agree that So Hall could have no connection To the business in any way for one full calendar year The transfer of the suspended license would be dependent on that agreement Failure to enter into a written agreement reflect in these terms or failure to abide by the agreement would result in the license Automatically bring we vote with no further notice or near need for a hearing We have a motion in a second before it's on their amendment under discussion Alderman Bonet. Yes, your honor. Oh, so you turn your claim With the stipulation there is there If they turn around and sell the business again, let's say in a month after that Can they circumvent the stipulation? All of them are when I haven't seen the stipulation. So I I don't know I can't address that I know assistant city attorney Adams said I believe it's seen the language and perhaps he can address that if That's okay. Please would you There actually isn't a stipulation drafted But any stipulation would include that language that it would it would apply to Not only the corporation to which it would be To which the license would be granted at the end of the suspension period But to all of its successors in a science basically to prevent Mr. So Hall from having anything to do with the business for that entire one year this is dependent on The you know the corporation entering into this agreement But there's also built into it if they do not enter into that agreement. It reverts back to just simply being a straight revocation With that Can we stipulate period forever in the stipulations? I? Do not agree firms. I do not agree with the amendment for the fact it's for one year. You probably can The reason I used a calendar here is To reflect what is generally done With a revocation because with a revocation at the end of the the license year you can apply It doesn't have to be granted it in any case, but you probably could change that language to in perpetuity All the way in Stefan. Oh Yeah, okay a few questions. Um, I Guess for the assistant city attorney yet, I understand the logic behind the motion I'm just questioning. Can we actually do the part about the employee also? That would and yes, but the what has to happen is the corporation has to agree to it Which is why we can do it basically what we're saying is we're providing an ability for a successor corporation to take over there a successor corporation You know of mr. So Hall's choosing but in order for that to happen you have to agree to our terms, okay? the other questions they have is as Drafted if we voted for the revocation Is that just until the next like license period and it's up renewal it could be approved. It could be denied again It would not be up for renewal. It would be a new new application there would would be no application to renew but our license to renew but An individual could apply there's nothing what it wouldn't get a license here That's true. The location really just says he's definitely not gonna have a license still During june or july license period, which is a year. Okay? And I guess the issue that Alderman Borne said that probably concerns me the most that I've heard But it really isn't addressed here and I want to make sure I'm clear on it For me the mr. Soho or his attorney does he admit that he sold cigarettes at a far higher class than To minors that he would have to regular people No, no, he admits to the fact that a person came in to his business This is the second incident. We're talking about and gave him a five dollar bill and Got the cigarettes and ran out the door basically didn't didn't want to change That's what I've been told of mr. Soho. That's what he would tell the committee That's your chain, you know, he's a keeper change first time hiring He didn't hear and I tell I say, okay, that's your chain. He said no, I don't want to change keep a chance and please Okay, my last question was I just wanted to be clear all of these events First second and third there were communications with mr. Soho in between them, right? I mean it wasn't like he found out on august 20th about all three of them. There were definitely I know you said between after the second one he went through the committee So there was after each one you had some communication with the Middle East, right? Thank you Second time I want to say something If they I charge premium cigarette to everybody why I not charge it second time, you know, okay, sir I tell to committee If they like second time he come with the same like underage, you know, I check her ID everything Two girls come in my store. I check her ID that time. She's fine. You know Then If they I charge premium price Everybody like underage why I not charge like second time I tell to committee Why I not charged like second time First time he say, okay, keep a change then please under like write down on the paper Press report everything, right? I charge premium price If they I charge premium price, why not charge a second time? I tell the committee If they You know like I'm I'm like honest person. I'm not do like that. But whatever committee say, I'm fine, you know I'm indian It's okay, but I'm not like my I have my daughter too I not sale as somebody sale to my daughter I tell you everybody, okay, you are stay here you like My daughter too. If it's somebody sale, I do same thing to whatever you do And I'm not that person, you know, I ask him like, you know, his parents come with him to and he buy a cigarette from him same guy Second time he come over there and I sell cigarette and He please whether you because he don't want me fine to his Son, you know And then he he will come with the police and he took took five dollars on the counter And tell him hey keep change Take a change. He's a keep a change and police write on over there. I charge premium cigarette CD clerk over there too. Everybody know I'm not sale like, you know And second time you are work if they are the same thing like that, then I why I not charge premium cigarette second time If they I want make money, I do second time too Thank you very much, sir Thank you, mayor I understand the the I believe the intent behind Alderman Mander who is an amendment I think he made it clear to the committee when we met I believe his comment was I don't want this man selling cigarettes to anyone anymore or along those lines You need A license the establishment needs a license to sell cigarettes the individual does not That means to me he can go to any other place and work and sell cigarettes The message is not necessarily being sent in my mind from the committee to the individual selling cigarettes to miners for a profit But to the establishment any establishment that hires somebody and doesn't train and doesn't follow the law I can understand and I'm sympathetic About giving an individual a second chance There was three instances that we considered And others that we couldn't We don't have Today tonight the benefit Of the officer that testified before the committee if you heard him you would be convinced, too There was just too much there I feel for the gentleman. I would love to give him a second chance This is three times This is three times All I'm saying is my vote will be consistent and it's based on principle Thank you Thank you, um, um, I did want to state that if the member would pass I would agree to what element bonehead said or I had asked earlier with the longer than a year and I also did want to Touch on what element pres had said that this is a complicated issue. It's hard to understand if you weren't there because the Testifies from the officers that we heard Made the community comes to their decision. So thank you Oh, thank you, honor. All right, you change your amendment to improve forever To to improve unity. I'm sorry Okay, I mean you you ought to change your amendment to get a second to that. I mean that's We're talking for mr. Solhaul selling cigarettes In that as an employee of that store Employee Can we do if we can do that? Okay fine I just wanted to clear I I was going to clarify some questions that were posed through the conversation I think Mike Warner did Um since we don't have the police officer here I do have the police report that was offered as evidence in the instance of the quasi judicial hearing Uh, this was officer winners working in a sting operation after juveniles had reported That cigarettes were being purchased there at Not only juveniles, but they they were inflated, right The juvenile reported reported to the officer that occurred six times prior Um, this juvenile had been caught with the cigarettes and that's what led to the investigation Um Officer winners did do an investigation where the money was marked Serial numbers were checked and after the money had changed hands The officers came in and um cited I'm sorry. Oh five singles five single one dollar bills And all five once a single dollar bills were at the In the cash register of um, mr. Solhaul He was the person who had sold the the cigarettes Um, as you see before I'm kind of confused by his attorney saying that he didn't admit because it says in our documents He admitted to the stipulated truth of each of these allegations And I mean these are just actions. I believe full-heartedly This is somebody that we do not and should not have in our community selling cigarettes or alcohol to minors um Now if you want to expand upon that, uh Attorney Chuck Adams would expand on the fact of why we incorporated the alcohol license with that and the Justification of the state statutes with that And I do want to note that for the purposes of this Um document that that I'm appearing not as counsel for the council itself But I'm I'm acting as the prosecutor of this action and attorney Volkner is here as well acting as council for The common counsel just on this one issue The the committee had asked um some time ago for me to do a little bit of research on whether We could revoke or suspend the alcohol license as well as the tobacco license And my opinion was that yes, you can Um the Uh law provides that when you suspend or revoke a license it has to be For behavior that's related to the licensed activity But that doesn't necessarily mean it has to be exactly the licensed activity and there are a series of cases Many of them out of the milwaukee area, especially out of the city of milwaukee that deal with situations where licenses Are revoked or suspended for behaviors that reflect on the licensed activity but are not but are not exactly the same as the sale of For example beer to minors And I do believe that it is appropriate for A an alcohol license to be suspended or revoked when The alleged behavior is the sale of tobacco to minors because the The type of activity that's being engaged in the sale of tobacco to minors is very similar To other behavior that we want to make sure that we prevent which is the sale of alcohol to minors While it's not been proven that mr. So-ha'll ever sold alcohol to minors The behavior he engaged in is very similar to that type of behavior And the and the case law does suggest that uh, you can suspend or revoke revoke the alcohol license because of this type of behavior Hang on sir, you the Hearing's done with now, but hang on. You have a question for No, I do now. I was just gonna make a final statement on that. Okay, because then someone else wants to speak it. So go ahead go ahead Follow woman a oh, thank you I thought you know the director make your final statement. Okay. I was just going to point out that I do support the amendment To To the motion I feel that is imperative that we prevent this person from selling cigarettes at this location the amendment will do that and I feel this is a person who repetitiously abused the trust of the people and Incorporating the alcohol license that both are controlled substances. He abused our trust with one substance And is I agree with attorney chuck adams on the connection Thank you Thank you, mr. Mirror if I understand it correctly what we're asking Is to revoke the alcohol license revoke the tobacco license Make a stipulation that the new owner if there is a new owner Can never hire this man ever Is that what we're saying I don't believe so but chuck you want to answer that? Excuse me attorney adams Close it's it's my understanding that what what the motion is is to suspend The license for 30 days at the end of the 30 days the license Could be transferred to a new corporation in which mr. Soha would have no interest either as a shareholder as a director Or even as an employee and that that new corporation then could start up business after 30 days But they would also have to enter into an agreement that at no time would mr. Soha'll ever become an employee or a shareholder or a director In in that corporation or any of its successors What it would mean for mr. Soha is that he would have to get employment somewhere else By somebody else Yes, no, maybe That's the way it sounds I'll remember thank you mayor. That's that's exactly the way it sounds That means he can go to work somewhere else sell cigarettes because he doesn't need a license to sell cigarettes I I guess I am a little bit concerned with With a shift in In feelings and decision in the in the committee, but as I said I will be consistent on my vote Alderman Warner, I thank you. I guess I'll support the amendment, you know Even if we do this Mr. Soho can still go somewhere else and and work you just can't work on this Particular store the importance of that is that this particular store Just down the block from north high school Urban middle school and I think that that is one of the reasons that we look at at this They had an individual who three times for sure sold cigarettes to miners The press article said he had upcharged them on that that was the thing that one of the things that bothered me Beyond some of the others we hear that They're mean out of done it on purpose I think I think it's reasonable to allow that business to move over it's already an established business and keep mr. Soho away from that particular store We can't stop them from going somewhere else and Unfortunately, he put himself in this situation. I think it's a reasonable amendment and I'll support it All right as its council had enough discussion even with That's okay Alderman rain flesh sure just one more comment. Thank you um Hearing the debate regarding the amendment Initial reaction would be to not support it because we're not really enforcing long term He could look so we can't go work somewhere else But I realized upon revocation The viability of his business is is lost without being able to sell tobacco or Alcoholic beverages. He would not be able to sell that. I think we're that's a double punishment to him Not only taking his current business away, but not giving him something that he can then sell Have some money for his kids and finds while he finds some other employment So I will support the amendment that it will allow him then to at least get some kind of equity out of this business to find something else Thank you To another discussion. So would you call her old please? We've got a couple amendments here though. We gotta go backwards here. Okay The first Amendment is an amendment to the amendment and we'll be voting on that first that was changing the one full calendar year to Forever that's the first amendment that we'll be voting on everybody understands that Yes, you're voting for forever versus 30 days. Oh, hang on. So that that's part of the whole amendment I mean, no no action have been taken. So you're not amending anything They did that. Oh, okay Do you need to hear the whole amendment would you like to full amendment read before you vote on it? Okay, the amendment is to amend the recommendation of the committee So as to conditionally suspend the duo license for 30 days at the end of the 30 days The license may be transferred to a new corporate entity to which the former agent of sing petroleum sancto So-ho has no connection either as agent director shareholder or employee The new entity to which the license would be transferred must agree that so-ho could have no connection to the business in any way forever The transfer of the suspended license would be dependent on that agreement failure to enter into a written agreement reflecting these terms Or failure to abide by the agreement would result in the license automatically being revoked With no further notice or need of forehearing This recommendation would replace the current recommendation to simply revoke the license Okay, okay Serta graph mani monta mayor prez peterson rin flesh sagali stefan van akron van der wheel warner bowman burg bonnet 12 eyes three nose motion carried I think you need to take action on the The rc as amended Okay, this is the rc as amended graph mani monta mayor prez peterson rin flesh sagali stefan van akron van der wheel warner bowman burg bonnet anserta 12 eyes three nose motion carried Okay, thank you for coming in 1445 to be referred 1446 by finance recommending amending the capital improvements program recommended by the capital improvements commission and the plan commission for the program period 2005 to 2009 and adopting the 2005 program for implementation in passing the attached substitute resolution alderman groff your honor your honor i would move that the um rc be accepted and adopted and that we um Place a report of officer on file and amend the resolution to borrow For the tiff projects and the fire station in 2005 and therefore pass the attached Resolution Move to second accepting adopt report a committee and pass the substitute resolution as amended under discussion Alderman warner I think your honor, I guess Uh Everyone knows we need a my new police station in town. Everyone knows we need a new south side fire station We were working through the budget all year in building use The recommendation was that both of these facilities be built in 2006 and and that's something i voted for in the plan commission. I voted against Including the three million dollars in borrowing For 2005 And I will vote that way again Thank you alderman steffen Uh, yes, I I guess I would ask that we have a chief xire address this issue there's been a lot of communications regarding this that are faulty have bad language He related to me that a lot of the alderman didn't know the facts because there's been such a campaign out there to Misinform people so I'd ask if we could have the chief. Sure. Just bring us up to date on the financing and The facts Chief thank you your honor. Thank you Council people This project has been in the making for many many years When the south side expanded, uh, it's uh by through annexation many many homeowners and Billings or we're built to the far south side Presently there are three stations north of penn avenue and only one south of penn avenue and entire south side Other chiefs before me have brought this issue to the council and two capital improvements for consideration Uh, we again our staff brought those counts those as considerations of the capital improvements committee And they've rated it and rated it very high that there are needs out there for infrastructure for another fire station Uh, presently the south side fire station houses six firefighters and the north side fire stations house 17 Uh, there is there is a need in the far south side to put a building up a one time cost to the city of 700 000 dollars Which will be borrowed, uh, this year and then there was also a concern about, uh, the savings of 20 000 dollars I've talked to finance director get part and because the planning of this would take place starting to build it in May of next year, it would not be completed until june of 2006 That the powering for this would not be done on a major scale It's a small scale borrowing and you can ask the director Finance on this probably be looking at the wisconsin investment Company on that through the state of wisconsin Uh, the rates are low that it would be done that way and there would be no additional costs for the year 2005 on the borrowing The concerns came up about we're going to ask for a lot of people and we're going to buy a new truck From the day one those of you who were in the committees that our our staff came to and explained it It was said that we will do what present firefighters and we will do it with present equipment The plan is to try and have that station out on 18th street and marbury to be staffed with Hopefully three most of the time and at least two at times to give the people in the far south side A chance to be rescued either from a fire defibrillated by A firefighter unit getting there within four minutes or any type of emergency medical call as the rest of the city enjoys On the north side and in the medium south side Another thing comes to play is firefighter safety Part of our job and part of the statutes that say in and the department of commerce and national fire protection standards say We all always look at the citizens first We also look at firefighter safety Presently when those five firefighters in the north south side of the station Which is normally only five there because of the staffing situation in the city head south to a fire They wait until the north side station here on On New york avenue or the far 25th street get all the way across town to help those five firefighters when it takes 14 Firefighters to extinguish or rescue put a fire out. They will have those resources available quicker There'll be a conversion of firefighters going to a scene on the south side as we don't have presently on the north side Also when there is a unit out of the south side, then now there'll be another unit available So what we need is a garage and our living quarters to house that piece of equipment and the house of firefighters So the commitment was The only firefighters will be used our present firefighters and present equipment If there's anything else Uh, we we do have the architecture Bids in and they we have two bids, uh, uh, $20,000 or below the $72,000 Uh, that was budgeted and there are ones at 49,000 ones at 51,000 I was just going to state, uh, I don't want to speak for the committee It was three to two in the committee and I believe the two that voted against it their concern was getting that Interest money the cost is here at 20,000 25,000 the chief has explained that, you know, uh Not only will the borrowing not cost any money, but we also the uh architecture plans came in less So we do have funding in the budget without moving any money I think it's important that we don't tie this up with the police station It's you know, it's a fire station. We're not building a $10 million fire station We're building one unit to serve the fastest growing area of the town It shouldn't be judged by what anybody else has or the e-goals or what's popular the politics. It should be the city capital improvements group which is consists of alderman and citizens Rated this high. They said this is what we should do. We have the funding to do it If we wait a year, it's just going to cost more money The school board is advertising their referendum They want to do it now because the costs are going up the same thing here costs and building are not going to go down Construction companies have personnel costs. They have benefit costs just like we do The cost is we can afford it today. We should do it today There's no sense of putting it off and then charging the citizens another 50 to 60 thousand dollars Which is what it would be and I ask you to just Treat the fire station on its merits and not try to mix it in with anything else. Thank you. Thank you All in right flesher Thank you, honor I agree in terms of merits The south side is the fastest growing area in town. I think the only way that we can really Keep the budget crunch from impacting our current residences to expand to have more residences have more homes have more businesses in town To spread that cost throughout But as alderman steffen has said You know if we can afford we can do it. I'm just not sure we can afford to do it right now We've been here in the police station for 47 years saying next year next year It's time for them to do it I will wholeheartedly support the building of the police station when we can afford to do so I just can't do it this year, especially when It will I will support after the first ground shovel of dirt is turned over for the police station about that way Thank you Alderman Warner. Well, thank you honor as I said um We clearly need a new south side fire station everyone understands that I understand this The plan commission understands that building use understands that The plan commission recommended not borrowing the three million dollars in capital improvements for 2005 They recommended it would be to eliminate that for that and I supported that This chairman of public protection and safety and his chairman of the building use committee I'm well aware of the needs of the fire department and of the shabuagan police department as well The city needs a new police station as well as a south side fire station as I've said twice already And I know that that I myself will work to see that both of these come to fruition They're both needed And part of the executive budget recommendation for 2005 Included using five hundred thousand dollars from the capital and Projects fund to maintain the current staffing levels in the police patrol division That was money that was supposed to go towards the new police station We're not trying to tie the police to the fire and delay the fire because of the police or any of that That isn't that isn't how I look at that's not how I make my decisions That is part of the funding for the new police station And it was used to maintain the staffing levels in the police department And it came out of the funding for that new building I mean even with this they're still down Three patrol officers and I think four or more administrative staff the fire department is down They still need people public works down. They still need people. We're making all kinds of trade-offs. We need that south side fire station I agree, but I just Can't change my mind on that three million dollars in borrowing and and I you know Position I've taken and you know when I take that into consideration I can't support the finance committee's Recommended changes and but I do support building both of these in 2006 Oh Thank you. Hello, that's Stephanie. Thank you. Well, I just wanted to agree I I do think we need both police station and a fire station And I don't want there to be any misunderstanding this money You know as and you know, Richard Gerhardt talked we're not since it's such a miniscule amount of money in the overall picture He's not even a go out there. He's just going to borrow it from the state Where is he? We're not going to borrow like we normally would have when we borrow three million That's why the costs aren't there for the interest This money has nothing to do with the five hundred thousand dollars that's set aside for the police station That might be used in the budget. It's got nothing to do with this fire station. You know, we don't want to You know get that impression out there that we're taking from the police to build to the fire This should stand alone. It's got nothing to do with the police station The money isn't being borrowed from the police department budget. It isn't being used to cut police officers It's being borrowed to build the fire station and it's not coming from the police department budget Or the police department's building budget Thank you Thank you, your honor The capitol improvements commission ranked this as one of the top priorities in the city I stand behind their judgment This is no longer a financial question as was posed before I think that's been clarified by both riches summation and what we've heard on the floor here from fellow alderman. Thank you. Thank you Alderman growl Thank you, your honor The the finance committee is alderman steven pointed. I'll go to three to two for this and I can't speak for alderman montemire But um, she was the other opposing vote to this and it was basically because we were looking for Where the additional funds were going to come because when you Requested that the three million dollars be cut out of the budget for for capital improvements You were saving a hundred thousand dollars in in interest costs Correct Because it was estimated that the interest cost on the borrowing for the fire station would be approximately $20,000 By the amount that they save now on their architectural fees and so forth. They have made up that 20 000 plus So um, we're still saving the hundred thousand dollars. Although we're still doing the borrowing We're just getting 20 000 dollars away from another place So, um, I will support this this evening Chief, do you have anything else say before we go? Okay If there's nothing else Would you call her old please? I'm sorry Manny montemire Perez Peterson Rindflush Sigali Stefan Van Akron Vanderwheel Warner Bauman Berg Boney Anserta Uh, the vote is nine to six Motion carried Okay Moving on Thanks for coming up guys 1447 by public protection and safety recommending passing ordinance relating to parking restrictions during snow emergencies and passing attached substitute ordinance Alderman Warner Thank you, your honor I move that the Report of community to be accepted and filed and that the substitute ordinance be passed Move to second that the ordinance be accepted and placed on no Here see The Accept and adopt Accept and adopted Board of committee and or substitute of general ordinance be put upon as passage on your discussion Our discussion your honor, um This is a substitute ordinance that is essentially the same as the ordinance 1448 which alderman bauman brought in The reason we we had to do this is because The last three little dots in that document essentially deleted what was left after that in a paragraph So we had to add those words back in for the rest of it And uh, it's basically all it did. So what alderman bauman brought forth is the same There's another discussion. Would you call the roll please manny? Oh, excuse me alderman van akron Yeah, I'd like to order this Explain this a little more to me About this uh being called by the public works. Am I correct? Yes, it came to public protection and safety and assistant city Certainly attorney chuck adams was there and he said we just had to add this part back into it It was a dual referral to public works and public protection safety and we both agree with the change We just had to add the rest of the language That what you were looking for don't No, I I'm looking for is how this is going to work is when a small emergency is called They're going to announce and then we have to move the cars to that side alderman bauman Alderman bauman Great so why don't we just take 1448 with it because it's just typically the same thing but that's all right. Yeah Oh, excuse me. No. Yeah. No, you're Okay, I'll start over. Thank you, your honor be happy to explain this um I actually was yelled at by a couple of people up in the clerk's office even because they didn't understand How this thing was uh written And it came out a committee with the kiss concept keep it simple silly And the thing being if a snow emergency is called During the day, which 99 of the time is going to happen. Let's say 10 o'clock in the morning And today being the 18th of the month And it was called at 10 o'clock this morning. You're going to be parked already on the even side You're going to stay on that even side until that snow emergency is finished If in the event you're coming home from work On this same date You're not going to park for tomorrow because that snow emergency is still in effect And once the snow emergency is over Then you probably won't be ticketed that evening because of the fact that this emergency usually does run through the entire evening The following day you would again be parking the way you should be unless there's another snow emergency called so it's uh Now changing it from the Yearly thing that we had had odd year odd park even your even park It's just going with the daily parking so that we can still keep our roads and streets cleaned as best as possible during the winter Call them in van Akron in other words if we're on the even side And uh, it's called on the odd side of day. What do we do then? Go back to the other side Again, if it's an odd day and it's called during the day, which 99 of the time is going to happen You're going to stay on the odd side Yeah, but you don't part what if you're on the even side for the day and you call a small emergency at 10 o'clock And they're working in their shop and you call us numerals They're all going to have to go out and move their cars If it's a snow emergency route you're not going to be Parked on the streets in the first place Because of the snow emergency, but otherwise what do you mean? I can I can be parked at my house on the other side. What about if you had no parking on one side? If you got no parking on one side, it doesn't going to matter. You're going to stay parked there Stay on one side. Great Until the snow is moved and then you move the vehicle over just as it has been in the past I think we're confusing the people. I don't think so. I think so Alderman madman Thank you, mr. Mayor Only the way to slates of lights are coming up. Everybody's confused. Go ahead Alderman ballman through all of these years. I've kept it straight I've kept it straight that may have just slipped away now, but I'm sure you're doing it to make it simple I just had to say that that I've always understood it just barely always understood it and always Met the criteria. They have never gotten a ticket for the parking with the snow over time occasionally But it may just have slipped away now. Thank you We're changing is During a snow emergency when it's declared now It's declared as part of the winter season the year and for instance the winter season this year because it begins By ordinance november 1st will be 2004 to 2005 What happens is with this that it conflicts with the overnight winter parking rules when we call emergency, especially When we get after the first of the year and we're into february and we say it's a snow emergency therefore Park park cars no parking on snow emergencies dead and they're called the sacks Parking on all other streets is on on on the even side because that's the winter season 2004 2005 but actually it's 2005 So everyone's thinking well, it's 2005. I should really be parking on the onsite, but nope the winter season started in 2004 That's where the confusion comes in and it was conflicting with overnight parking when people Park during the winter season when there's no snow emergencies year round during the during the winter season, excuse me It's overnight parking from 2 a.m. To 6 a.m. And you park on that side of the street So what we decided to do is just forward snow emergency declarations when we're when they're declared is that The parking on the side of the street is allowed on the day of the snow emergency that is declared Instead of going back to the winter season and thinking what year did it start? Basically as as alderman ballman stated if we declared an emergency today today is an even day That's the first side of the street you would park on on the streets that you're allowed to park on during snow Emergency we plow that side of the street the opposite side You have one hour to move your car and then we plow the other side in those neighborhood streets All other parts of the snow emergency ordinance are not affected. They're remaining the same It's just the designation of which side of the street You're allowed to park on will now coincide with the actual day of the emergency versus The winter season sounds simple enough the lullery for all the calls to you All of it accurate one more question now We had a lot of them called at night at 8 10 o'clock So we're on one side you plowed the other side. We have one already get across to the other side where What we've been doing and if you've noticed is with the winter parking Alternate site parking we've really reduced the number of snow emergencies that we've had to call because we're able to go Into these neighborhoods and and do a good clean up plowing during the evening hours without having The disruption of calling a snow emergency and having everyone get off of all the snow emergency routes dead ends and cul-de-sacs What we anticipate is if we had a large snow event Let's say that started late afternoon What we would do is try to call a snow emergency to start to begin Let's say at midnight knowing full well that people will probably be going home in the evening Ready to start to park for tomorrow so we can get into those neighborhoods They will coincide with their normal practices of parking on that on that side of the street Hang on David. You may have more questions here Alderman Bonet. Thank you your honor. I don't have any questions for you I voted against this the first time I will be voting against this again. I can remember last time our honorable Val Schultz Alderman for the common council here. I was trying to argue for this last time and He couldn't get it straight for a life of him when he was arguing for it many constituents. I'm bracing myself already Don't use the word or don't think this is simple And certainly don't use the word silly when it comes to the phone calls I get from And it's usually about two o'clock in the morning. I get a plethora phone calls in the first two sets of snow storms We get so I will be voting again against this. Thank you Alderman grof Thank you your honor You still call the snow emergencies or does public works? They call them then they call me and tell me they call them Well, whoever's calling them will say Correct me if I'm wrong We'll say that the snow emergency is scheduled to start on at two o'clock or two a.m. On october 18th, let's say or Tober 19th or whatever it may be and therefore that will give you a clue as to what side of the street to park on also, correct Correct. We always try and give them about four hour leeway, correct david four to five hour leeway before we announce We'll start plowing. Excuse me. We announced it before we start plowing Okay There's another question. Would you call the roll please manny? no montan mayor Perez peterson rinflush sagali stefan van akron van der wheel Warner bowman burg boney surda and grof 11 eyes four nos motion carried 1448 by public works recommending passing the ordinance relating to the emergency powers parking restrictions during the snow emergency Alderman bowman Well, your honor seen the last one passed. I moved to accept and file this report committee We have a motion in the second before us to file the report of committee on your discussion Hearing none. Would you call the roll please montan mayor Perez peterson Rinnflesh sagali stefan van akron van der wheel Warner bowman burg boney Right, yes, right surda graph and mani 14 eyes one no motion carried 1449 through 52 to be referred Fall before we will hold If you remember in the beginning we held the notice for the ordinance so we will hold this also 1337 resolution by grof stefan burg mani and montan mayer authorizing a transfer appropriations in a 2004 budget Thank you your honor that along with 1338 which is a resolution about the transit transfer of appropriations in the 2004 budget Also, I would move that both resolutions be put upon their passage Moved in second at 1337 and 1338 be put upon your passage under discussion Hearing none, would you call the roll please Perez peterson Rinnflesh sagali stefan van akron van der wheel Warner bowman burg boney surda graph mani and montan mayor 15 eyes motion carried 1346 rc by the special committee on risk management Recommending filing documents submitting a communication from rinatio regarding room tax money All of them graph Thank you your honor on On 1346, I would move that that rc Be accepted and placed on file and then on 1314, which is also by special committee on risk management I would move that That a notice of injury on behalf of sandy gensky for alleged damages as well as As a result of flooding with the property she owns at 1743 foxhill roads that that notice of injury be placed on file and then on 1311 which is a A request to pay For alleged damages for a sewer backup in In A person's basement I would move that we pay the plumbing bill in the amount of 206 dollars and 25 cents And deny the remainder of the claim and have the city attorney send a notice of disallowance for the quirling as this meets How we normally handle this type of claim We have a motion to second before us on 1346 1314 and 1311 under discussion Here you none. Would you call the roll peterson? ring flush Segale stephan Van Akron Vanderbilt Warner Bowman Berg Bonet Serda Graff Manny Montemayor and Perez 15 eyes motion carried 1345 gentle organs by alderman warner van der wheel and serda creating a section in the court So it has to regulate the parking large vehicles within the city Alderman warner Thank you. I'll make a motion to general ordinance be put upon as passage Second Moving to second ordinance be put upon as passage under discussion under discussion your honor This ordinance Will limit the parking of large vehicles namely semis on residential streets It follows all the other statutes throughout the state code and public protection And safety committee recommends its passage Alderman walden Thank you under under exceptions letter e where it states that the vehicle a recreation vehicle whether designed to be towed or move under its own power provided that said recreational is Parked or stored in compliance with all other apical statutes and ordinances Parked or stored stored does that mean it is 24-hour exempt Parked or stored means it has to comply with all of our other apical statutes and ordinances, which means no it would not be 24-hour exempt Just so that it's an example then If someone parked his RV then in front of his own home or in front of someone else's home for more than 24 hours It could be take it in towed Pretty much is the same with your own private vehicle Except that that would take a complaint and most often that's not going to happen I think chuck is still here. You can explain that probably a little more detail, but that is in effect right now Okay Alderman serda Thank you. Your honor. I think it's important to mention that this issue was brought to the attention of public protection and safety due to My district and that is the issues being addressed. I believe it's between 17th and 18th on indiana avenue So the the truck drivers there need to pay attention to this ordinance. Thank you Thank you. I was just going to ask you that because I got a call today again From 17th to 23rd street They seem to pile up along there and park and let their trucks run for a lengthy period of time Yes, so I'm glad you're addressing that Okay, if there's another discussion, would you call the roll please rin flesh Sigali stefan van akram Vander wheel Warner Bowman Berg Bonet Serda Graf Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson 15 eyes motion carried 1453 a resolution by alderman warner authorizing entering into contract for the incident respond vehicle and waving the competitive bidding process Alderman warner I thank you. Honor. I need to ask for suspension of the rules Is there any objection to the suspension? Is there any objections to suspension? Hearing none proceed under that your honor. I move the resolution be put upon its passage We have motion to second before us under discussion Under discussion your honor as you know chief xyron in the department have been working to get this done for months This is in regard to the federal homeland security grant funds that the city has received The entire project is funded with those homeland security grant grant money and a private donation by ceo Tony javonovich of community bank There's no city dollars involved in this The request is to allow for the down payment to be made this week and keep the project moving forward again No city tax money involved private donation from community bank And homeland security grants covering all the costs Okay, if there's no other discussion Would you call the roll, please sagali stephan Hi, an akron Vander wheel Warner Bowman Berg Bonet Serda Graf Manny Montemayor Perez Peterson Rindflush 15 eyes motion carried One more document hang on Steve 1455 Or 54 excuse me is an arrow by the city clerk submitting communication received by the mayor from penny webber regarding her concerns over the possible budget cuts Relating to the police department particularly to the community policing unit and that will go to public protection and safety We have a motion to second before us under discussion. You're not all in favor