 Hi everyone, this is Sonali. Thank you all for carving out some time for attending today's webinar on the episode 20 of the Business X Learning series, Invest, Scale, Value and Exit. To all the attendees out there, please type in any questions you might have in the Q&A section and we'll try to answer as many as possible at the end of the session. I would now like to welcome our speaker, Mr. Gaurav Mara, Chairman and Founder of the Franchise India Group. A very warm welcome to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Sonali and thank you for joining in. This is a series which we're doing. This is the 20th edition as Sonali said and we talk about valuation, scale, exit and invest. And these are all four strong components with interlink and we every time take a topic and talk about it. Business X, as Sonali said, is a platform which gets a lot of startups come to us which are looking to raise capital. And this is a good sign because in the last five, seven years, particularly we have seen that mindset has changed. A lot of people are approaching a platform like Business X, there are multiple platforms and a lot of angel groups available where they would go and pitch to the investors and raise capital for their startup. And some are very structured, some are not so structured. So these are initiatives we do to really pass on knowledge especially to early stage companies and startups. And every time we take up a particular topic. So today's topic is all about how startups should be really valued and how difficult it is to value. And especially in the current times of this COVID going on, a lot of investors are shying away to bring in investments or the liquidity is becoming a tighter especially at the angel kind of early stage investors or seed investors. And this is a time where one has to do a lot of homework before we even really go and start raising capital. So in today's 30 minute odd discussion, we will talk about what are the startup challenges, stages and so on and so forth. Then we will also talk about the valuation factors, what are the kind of valuation factors you need to have. Then we talk about the different methods of valuation, how startups would be valued from the investors in different perspective. Then I'll talk about the five aspects which I strongly believe in when I have to look at a startup to invest. I don't go into many things. I just focus on the five principles which I have really chosen to really whenever I'm looking to invest or even to recommend anybody. We do a more recommendation to companies. And finally, we'll also talk about the overall approach of valuation, how you need to approach it, what kind of valuation expectation you need to set for yourself if you're leading a startup. And finally, we'll talk about the investor perspective, what is the investor looking at in the business. So as I said, I mean, the problem with startups is that there is normally startup would have a very little or a no revenue situation. So a lot of times it's actually no revenue. It's an ideation being done, some kind of a work being done, a foundation being laid, a business plan being done, but revenue is not there. Now, fundamental to valuations are is that there is all based on your revenues. It's essentially what your top line and bottom line. If you don't have that, it becomes even more trickier to value businesses. And that's where it all starts from. And this is how difficult it becomes to set a valuation for a business. And especially these days, it becomes even more riskier to look at any kind of valuation where there is no, so to say, historic data, which is available. I normally would recommend that you need to have a little bit of traction being built before you even start approaching the investors. Otherwise, it can be a lot of frustrating exercise to go in a very, very early stage to reach out to investors. And they cannot see a merit in the business model. Unless it really is a technology product or it is something which is very, very destructive and a very clear problem solving is demonstrated. And a lot of startups are approaching these days to us and where we 90% of them are not even eligible at that stage. And while I also tell you that there is a huge amount of promise available, if you have a little bit of a traction and a scale story, if traction and scale story together comes in, then there is enough and more money available outside, which can be serviced. But sometimes if you're not really done, no traction is there. There is no strong scale story is very clearly demonstrated. Neither you are demonstrating a very strong problem solving situation, then it becomes a very difficult structure. Another area which one has to really ask for, what is a much need capital for you? And what is a must need capital for you? There is a two different things. One is a, what is a minimum you need to really have this startup come out of the ground. That's something which one has to really demonstrate. And also, you'd know very clearly that what is in that thing. That's only starting point. At this stage, we are advising startups to really define that first, because that's very important. Rather than asking for a higher valuation case, let's understand what is a must need capital at this moment, what you need to do. Now, let's understand couple of stages, which are required to get to a point where somebody would value. What are the area factors which would influence a valuation of the company? As I said, the first to me is traction. A little bit traction is very, very important because it sets up some kind of a proof of customer demand. It shows that there is a little bit of a consumer sign. There is a certain amount of target group which you defined has already started adapting it. Even if the base which you're looking for a little more mature is 100,000 consumer, even if you can demonstrate a very sample size of 50 consumers using this, or some kind of a structure which is available, then I feel that that startup has a foundation being laid. Sometime pure ideation has a very little meaning left at this moment, unless and like I said, it's a very strong disruption. And so, traction is very important to me and this is my own perspective and that's what most of the investors would also look at. Second thing which comes to us is the reputation. How the reputation of the team which is presenting this idea is coming from. What is the, founders have a positive image in the market? What have they done in the past? What is the pedigree? It can be education, it can be experience, it can be maybe another startup, they were part of it. And what is the kind of capability? And if it clearly fits in with the domain, then it becomes even more enhanced. So, which means that you come from a particular domain. There is a startup I'm advising. This guy actually has been a person from healthcare itself and he's done work in healthcare. Now he's got another product from a healthcare space. Clear synergies, clear understanding, clear domain, clear reputation mapping, industry contacts, all that is fitting in. So, these are all connecting dots. If that was not connecting, then you need to bring in your team a little more wider and get people who can connect those dots. Because, unless eventually you have that, it shows, because you really understand that whenever a startup approaches an investor, investor has a foresight of 18 to 24 months to see this to get to a certain next stage of investment. Which means that is a huge scale up which is required between now to that level, maybe 10x, 15x kind of a scale up. If you are in the discovery mode, which means that you're discovering a new industry, you have no relationship, it becomes very difficult to do that. So, founder's reputation and linkages to me becomes a very important aspect of funding. A prototype is again very important. How you have done the prototype, it would obviously very, very important for the influence of the investor, how he would look at the business model. Pre-evaluation revenues, again, if you don't have that, then becomes a tricky. But if you have some pre-evaluation revenues in the system, it might be a very small number. We have seen businesses which were doing an absolute revenue of 10 lakhs, 15 lakhs, 20 lakhs, but there was some traction. Somebody put a dollar behind you, somebody liked your product, somebody bought this business. So, something which gives a clear communication, sample revenue structure, it always is a very, very good idea. And if you feel that that's a journey which you can do before you even hit any investor, please do that. Don't even try to jump into getting into a valuation situation, unless and until you have some kind of an endowment. Another area which has been problematic, which especially the ways spaces I come from, I have done a lot of work in the retail services and franchising space. And I've seen a lot of companies which have great product innovation, a lot of good ideas, but they lack distribution. Now, distribution is a critical point, because again, you might raise capital, but if your acquisition of the distribution structure is complex or you have no clear roadmap that how are you going to distribute that, then it becomes a very tricky situation. And a lot of businesses have actually collapsed where they have a great product innovation, but lack distribution. So, how are you going to demonstrate what is your distribution idea? How are you going to when your product is ready and it needs to go to a commercial and I think how fast you can bring in that distribution? What are the path for distribution? Sometimes it's a direct distribution path, sometimes it's a light distribution part, sometimes it is collaborative factor of what you need to collaborate that. So, a lot of that has to be very clearly understood, depending on what kind of in your product or a service, what kind of distribution would work. Then another thing which is very important is which industry you're doing. What is a larger industry? What is the micro industry available in that? How do you really do that? And that's where competitors would start coming in. What is happening in the industry? Who else was there in the industry? What international markets have reacted to this industry? There would be something. A good part with India is that we always would have a benchmark in a developed world. There would be a similar kind of developing world. So, there would be some benchmarks available in the world or some kind of a consumer indicators which would tell from that industry that something is going on. So, what is your industry telling you? And finally, is the key founding team. Maybe the founder is strong enough, but he does not able to get the right team in place. That's also very important. One of the startups we are advising is actually an IT product which they developed and they don't have in-house strong and I think they rather used another firm to develop the product. To me, it's a missing link. They don't have, they're a technology company but they don't have a really strong technology team member within a system. So, there has to be somebody who can really demonstrate locked in and how do you really show that consistency of that team? The founding team would stay in the system for some time to see this whole growth cycle and it's tough because you start up, you always bootstrap, you don't have that kind of levels of reimbursements which you can give. How do you get your founding team in the culture of it? It's very important that they come into the culture of the company and they understand where it is coming from. Now, let's get into the different types of valuations and what kind of types of valuations which would be there. First is very simple. When the early stage businesses go to investors, very, very early stage companies, they would use this as a cost to duplicate methodology. Now, cost to duplicate methodology by name itself sells that if you had to create the same thing again, what kind of time, energy, effort, money would be required to do that and that becomes a mindset of an investor to really invest into the business. It doesn't reflect the future potential, the problem with this is that it doesn't reflect the future potential of the business. It's just about cost of replacement. So, say, which means that I created a software, now investor would think that if I have to do the same exercise to create this piece, how much time, money, energy would take it and maybe a little bit goodwill over and above, that would be cost of duplicate model. But it's normally very low valuation because you're just taking what has been invested in that and a lot of times it's a low set investment, low set valuation because a lot of things would not be covered. There's a lot of intangible value which goes initially in the cycle of a startup. It might be a lot of IP, time, energy, effort, brand. While it is not mature, it's not one to the end, I think, but there is a lot of intangible values which are there, which are not captured in this. So, fundamentally, it would always become that if I have to replace this by putting that kind of money, how much time and I think this is normally done in businesses which are like retail and things of that nature. So, people would always value businesses in terms of cost to duplicate. So, that's how kind of a valuation would come in. This is not so much of a preferred valuation to me because it doesn't give you the right valuation. It's more you need to get off the ground and that's the way people would value. The second valuation method which is used quite a bit is what called market multiple. Market multiple is normally used where there is some kind of a comparative structure available. So, comparative market transactions which has happened in the same industry, sometimes Apple to Apple, sometimes Apple to Orange. Most of the times, it wouldn't be Apple to Orange because you would not have maybe comparative structures available in that startup. So, every startup would have some form of uniqueness. So, you will not maybe have absolute comparative. So, how do you really relate that, that would make sense and how close you can go on the comparatives and that's something which is in it. Say, furniture online, business urban ladder is there, then there are a couple of other pepper fries there. So, they would be comparative and when they would be valued at a certain stage when they were startups, they were very close to what the investor would look at it in a comparative structure. If somebody would got at a certain valuation, you will also get that. So, these are all about market multiples. One of the areas which is mostly used for a startup or any kind of valuation in anywhere in the world is DCF principle which is discounted cash flows, which means that you would put kind of a projection for next 4, 5, 6 years and discount that performance and build the value case on that. Now, this is a great way to do that because normally it will get you a very good valuation structures because you will project that and historically if you don't have data also you will just put the data. Now, a couple of things are very important. How this data is reflecting true numbers and how close these true numbers look like? Well, this would never be true because there is no historic data. So, there is nothing which has been pulled down but a lot of other factors which you can demonstrate that whatever numbers you are projecting would come closer to that and what are those factors and what sporting structures you would like to bring in to really form up that you are very close to predictability of that entire thing. Now, the flip side is most of the people would actually base your valuation on a certain performance on the third or fourth or fifth year whatever that number is and if you have overestimated this, there would be changes of disproportionate equity for investors. So, a lot of investors like to put the benchmark of a certain valuation 3 years from now and it can disproportionate, change the valuation structures for the founders. So, founders have to be very, very clear that this is not really about throwing a number which you don't cannot support. DCF is a good way of valuation but unrealistic cycles of projections would never make it a sensible for do that. Then, there is another factor which is used which is becoming more and more common now is called valuation by stages which means that how do you move from becoming amateur or more we start up to a little more commercially success which we call the rough to ready stage. How do you move from this to this level? How that model would work? So, we need to really put the investor would like to put some performance stages at a stage what stage, what needs to be done when you are a business idea or a business plan, what kind of valuation you will get when you have a scheme in place and you have the first cycle which started already then what is in that thing when your final product or prototype is absolutely ready or technology is ready and is commercially performing then it is nothing when you get to a next level of growth cycle which means that the benchmark of sales or some kind of alliances or some kind of a structure has come in that is in that thing and then you are passed to profitability which means that you are very close to now becoming profitable. So, all these are stages and then you are a profitable units it might be at a unit level or maybe at a so there is a different stages they would really define and these stages can be defined over say three years it can be designed over two years and as you demonstrate these stages the investors would continue to bring in money this is a good way of doing and building confidence but the business planning and forecasting all these are extremely important points here because you are end of the day riding on some promises which you have made and that's on the basis of that somebody has put a valuation on different stages and if you are not able to put this piece in the same manner so it needs a much more deeper thinking and maybe somebody who can really be mentoring you or advising you if you are a startup use that before you even approach these investors because this is good for an investor to buy in because they are also hedged and looking at it but it's also very important that you understand which path you are taking it. I have seen a lot of startups actually impress investors very well in the first part of the investment cycle and as they were businesses would not deliver as it was expected they would create a lot of disappointment so to say with investors. So, this is what I think the different ways of doing it just to summarize the valuation structures so cost to duplicate is one valuation structure which is used, market multiple is second one, discounted cash flow is third one, valuation by stage is a fourth one, that's how companies would see their investors, startups would see their valuations. Now let's get into what I would say my five chosen ones if I have to look at an opportunity and see that I would like to invest on that because there would be no correct so to say way of a valuation there would be still a little bit of art in what I always say in valuation is art and science of this art would always dominate in the in this early stage investments of the start more than the science but how can we go closer to be what I call the art can be more scientific that's the approach one can do that and there are five things which strongly come out for me at least one is a tracker record of the founder you know what kind of pedigree culture and commitment he comes from that's very very important and if he is a big founding team even better because then you know that there are different skills coming together and they're bringing strong pedigree they're bringing strong culture and they're strong bringing in commitment this to me is a funding point if this is missing nothing is going forward nothing is going forward to that second is market entry barrier and early development stages quality and stage so what are the entry barrier you are trying to create what what have you already done which would restrict that nobody else can come closer to you in your scale cycle so that's something which is extremely important ability to distribute as I mentioned earlier that even if you are able to get the funding and you're able to get yourself ready how fast it will take you to go to market and that's something sometime it takes it's not very well defined it's not very well defined and that creates a problem and then fourth point to me is scalability and sustainability today this has come together you know earlier we were all talking about scalability now sustainability is also very important because there can be market disruption there can be liquidity issues there can be market crunches and if you're not quickly able to sustain yourself it can be a lot of startups you will see will not be able to raise now because they were expecting to raise in 2020 and 2020 has been tied so we'll see a lot of startup shut now now this is because they had a scalable idea but sustainability was very far so how close you can bring these two things together is to be very very important at this moment if anybody says that I have a great scalable model but it's also can be sustained even if funding is delayed or for some time it can still survive by itself those are the businesses I would pick at this moment and finally adaptability to the markets and how quick you can go to multiple markets because world is your ground of many start distribution sometimes one market is not responding as well if I can take that to another market and keep that opportunity and capture that opportunity is very important so sometimes markets would not respond in the manner same manner maybe India is not doing so well or we have problems in this then we can take it to another market how is your business model adaptable to other markets and you can be within India multiple locations and so on so five things track record of a founder a market entry barriers early stage development ability to distribute scalability with sustainability and adaptability to the markets now let's get into what kind of expectation early stage companies would have in terms of their valuation most of the times they wanted the highest valuation and I am not big believer of that because I feel that sometime doing a very high valuation is not good because when you do high valuation and you go out in the market and you are not able to deliver numbers because you already had pitched it a very high and your next round becomes a down round which means that you're not able to get the same kind of expected valuation in the next round then it becomes even more tricky it would be always good to have a realistic valuation so that you are able to continue to show the promise and confidence of all the investor cycles and that companies to me do very well so largely there are people who would approach two different ways one is raise as much as you possibly can you would do as a high valuation but also sweat out the capital equally fast so which means that you are able to scale this business exponentially so that your next round also comes at a right valuation now this is very tricky a lot of times it's gone wrong because you just get into the high burn situation and business doesn't match with the same scalability so this has to be consciously second is be realistic and raise as you perform and you can reserve some cash don't really spend the money and continue to show different benchmarks I remember one time there was a company I was advising called via.com it was early stage and they raised some about a million dollar and when I started working with them we chose franchising as a way to do that because they felt that and when they started franchising they didn't actually use the money which they raised initially and the company strongly went into creating a very strong distribution it was a travel product very very successful company now so this was a good strategy because they they they reserve every single money dollar which was there they didn't indulge they kept themselves they use strategies which can without putting their capital which is franchising is one of the strategies to create their distribution once the distribution was well established they didn't actually need so much of cash to be done and so the valuation really came up in the in a very gradual and a very strong perspective sometimes you really have to think through where you are and and how you want to really approach that now I'll come down to the final part of my presentation and then if you have any questions I'll be happy to take that so what is the investor looking at investor always looks at the exit and the risk that's the fundamental piece of starting any approach to the entire thing so while it looks like that everybody looks at a higher you know performance of the asset you invest on but the first starting point is to really look at how do I exit out of this business and what is the risk it carries second the investor also looks at a firm timelines what kind of timelines we will look at for the business to perform and to reach to a certain benchmark and whatever that benchmark logically would mean that there would be a some kind of a serious valuation hit that point because it's a it's a high risk investments and third he also looks at who can be the strategic or of future investor which would come and do this entire thing what is a who's another person available out there who is would be ready when the startup reached to a certain level who's the next person or next group to invest who are investing into the category and things that are there their inclination also helps you to really look at that startup so whenever you're designing your pitch you need to really keep these three aspects of in your mind to really look after the investor so this is a little bit on early stage startups when they look at raising capital what should they should keep in mind we talked about valuation factors we talked about different methods of valuation we talked about the five areas which I would really focus on and also talked about the approach of different valuation which you're looking at so Sonali any any questions you have if you want to take a few questions then we're more than happy to take sure sir so firstly thank you so much for another wonderful session Gaurav sir we have quite a few questions with us and the first one that I would like to take up is what if the current valuation of a startup is low but it has highly great potential of scaling up do investors consider such startups as an exception case where they are willing to invest more than the valuation suggests no investors would not like to do that I mean if there is a startup which is currently the valuation is coming low logically if there is a potential to scale and there's a big promise in that then the argument says why the valuation is low so it's a conflicting statement right so if valuation is low it might be that the stage where you are approaching the valuation you're not completely ready it's not going to commercial success or something that I think and that's not bad that's not bad use that rather go under low valuation at this stage and reach to a point where you can demonstrate the next level of structure and you can improve your valuation for the next round and that next round can be much better valuation state so that's not a problem I think and same investors might like to use that maybe use that same strategy which I gave you which is the valuation by stages create those kind of thing rather than just opening up completely break that into the stage take that plunge of showing some performance and get the investors be committal to over three or four rounds with you on that stage early stage investors like it because you are you are moving at a certain stage and that might be a good strategy for you to use it. Right so the next question we have from Mr. Devadath Das he says how can we project cash flows if the business is not operated enough to project them? Yes so every business even at ideation stage has a certain mode of projection in place you know so you would have what is the future what is the size of business what kind of revenue cycles you can get that that has to be there you know no business would go to from a drawing sheet it needs to have a certain mode of business plan and how realistic that business plan is how compelling it is what and strong problem solving you're doing that should be demonstrated we have seen people investing at a very very early stage of and I think and and that's something which would work so people would invest into that but if again I would repeat if you can get some early traction in your startup that makes it extremely compelling I've seen the best interest especially with credible investors coming when you have a little bit of traction already been demonstrated. Right the next question is from Mr. Alok Garg he says in what time typical early stage investors want to take an exit and what typical returns are they looking at? So this is a good question again very hypothetical as I said there are a lot of there's no definite answers in this one has to do that they would look at early stage investors come with a mindset largely I mean while they can have a much higher mindset but 10x to 15x kind of a mindset is that everybody's mind but do everybody get it answer is no but that's what you do because if you're a serial investor you have invested into many assets and few assets don't perform to the level and some really perform so really if a good investor would hedge himself in terms of his couple of investments and the time frame is normally a mature investor would look at ideally should take three-year horizon that's something which I would personally like to do but while the expectations set are very different these days people are looking for doing the next round or the next stage funding and things of that nature in 18 months two years and things that are different stages and this also depends on the business we're talking about you know if the business is technology scalability the is much higher much faster some businesses have very strong sometimes the opportunity window itself tells you that you need to go very very fast on that and your capital raise requirement is also equally fast like what happened in e-commerce companies and some other businesses like EV is becoming this the whole electric vehicle space is very hot at this moment and you know almost hundreds of companies and hundreds of startups are coming in this space so lot is going on in in couple of categories so couple of categories really are much faster cycles and some categories are little slow cycles but so it depends on where you are and this so we have another two questions that we actually received from Mr. Nagarajan before the session itself the first question is why the investor community is not in sync with the characteristics of new age businesses such as ghost kitchens which need very small percentage of initial capital when compared to the conventional food businesses however similar or better bottom line when compared with them hence the volume of investment expectations are not in sync you know so I do want to be while one of the few sectors which we found even in fancy stage where the real numbers and real answers are not been delivered have secured funding is dark kitchens and these businesses but the news is also little not so great in the market because when I look at businesses like Swiggy and Zemado who invested into their own dark kitchens and they were the ones who have other people outside have to ride on them and they failed it worries me at this stage so I would say that at dark kitchen level while the business model on the sheet looks very attractive but because a lot has happened in a very short period and very few success stories and a wrong very large I think so at this day this sector is a little bit of a tricky one so and that's what my viewpoint on that particular sector is because somehow it doesn't get to your logic why dark kitchens which was promoted by the platforms which everybody has to depend on were not able to succeed right and if Zemado cannot succeed their own dark kitchens or Swiggy cannot do nothing there must be something inherently wrong so there is also there is a system you know there are brands which are trying to operate mono kitchens and they focused on that there are companies which are running infrastructure business of dark kitchens they get multiple brands to come in and then and there are strong operators so there are different levels of structures some success stories are there we all know some success stories of companies which are doing extremely well and a lot of young companies also doing well so I would I would put this sector into a little bit more watch but there is there is a lot of money coming in on similar lines we have another question which says why the investor community seems to be not in sync with the characteristics of business ideas that are complimented by covid and not challenged by it so I think Nagarajan is also writing about ghost kitchens you know ghost kitchens okay that also I think Nagarajan is I think is is is we call ghost kitchens or host kitchens in and again there are multiple you know market feedbacks you know and still we are lot of people are not able to if I go to definite while we can have a separate chat on that because this is getting into more one industry I still don't understand the maths here if I have to be candid on that because I feel that you know the cost of acquisition to you know to the overall micro maths is not making at this stage sense and and the cost of acquisition is really not coming down it's rather going up so that's something which to me is is becoming a little bit of challenge but ideation wise I can I I like that from a perspective it is no doubt that if you if you if you look at that model of kpex light and structure and should make sense but it's currently becoming a little more challenging a lot of work is going on and I'm also involved in few of them so we will be happy to chat Nagarajan lastly sir we have a lot of questions from people who want to know if we also provide valuation services and how we can help these startups value themselves so anything you would like to add to that yeah so we we have a separate team which is under equity India and business x which does all valuation we also have a India world's largest platform for business valuation called biz equity you all can go on a platform called biz equity dot com is it's a platform which is you know very unique where you can build valuation and we have consultants also help you to do the realistic valuation for your startup thank you so much Gaurav sir for very patiently answering all the questions and for a wonderful session once again anything you would like to add in the end no anything as I said I mean there is a India is a very strong startup story and would always be good startup story I feel that we need to really look at this is my own desire now coming in we we are trying to be in the rush of startups trying to just follow rather than mean innovative I think the next cycle of startups should come from genuine innovations and innovations which are ready for markets like India and I feel that there is so much of problems we can solve in in our environments you know which are very very important urbanization is is a big issue and a lot of health is not becoming pollution is another issue so we have a lot of problems around us we have problems and more problems around us if if young people or in people can start thinking about solving those problems with the very strong innovations I think billions of dollars would follow billions of dollars the problem is that we we just follow the west and too much on on focus on searching what somebody else is doing and I think we need to now in startup also generally think about you know while scalability can go we can take a startup from India to any part of the world but desire would be to really think through startups which which come and solve some solid problems which we need like somebody in IIT I think with Delhi government has innovated some machine which they're giving now to farmers that they cannot they don't have to burn the crop which creates pollution in Delhi and this can be used as a as a saver on that to me these are innovations and these innovations are really good and our incubators are our structures in IITs and other places are brilliant and one has to really look at our thinking process in that manner and and that's where the next generation of innovative startups would come absolutely sir so with this we'll just wrap up the session thank you so much once again Gaurav sir for your time and your valuable insights thank you to all our attendees we really hope you were able to add some value to your lives through this session and if anybody wants to reach out to Gaurav sir sir if you can just input your email ID as well yeah I'm writing my email ID thank you so much sir and if anybody has any other questions if you want the recordings of our previous sessions please feel free to reach out to me as well I'll be happy to help you with anything that you need to discuss and we'll see you next time next Saturday at 3 p.m with another session in the series the next session would be about all about exiting a business thank you so much thank you very much thank you