 of the disability access advisory committee to order on April 20th at 11 30 in the morning. And what's the, could we do a roll call, make sure who's here. Okay. Myra here. Marty at least link. Yes, here. Ruth Smith here. And no other members present. So at the moment, Xander Crowley, Sarah and Darren, and oh, come on, my brain isn't functioning. Tori Dixon are not here. And hopefully they will be. But this meeting is to talk about Emily Dickinson homestead application for variants for a very large and impressive construction project, restoration project. And we have architects here. Who do we have? So, um, let me for one second. So we have, oh, Sarah is here. Well, let's just let Sarah join. We have Jean Wald, who is on, well, I was gonna say the historical commission, but that's, that's not of relevance. I don't think, but you are the president of the Amherst, of the Emily Dickinson Museum and homestead. Is that correct? I'm, I'm the executive director. Thank you. Sorry. Yeah. And we have Shantae Andrew Hagan, if I'm pronouncing your name correctly. Pretty close. Shantia. Shantia. Oh, thank you. I knew it. Yeah, it's a mouthful. And you are a historic preservationist. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. I'm consulting with the Emily Dickinson Museum on the project. Great. Okay. And so I guess we expect any of the architects, are they, are they planning to be here? They're not able to attend today. They're not able to attend. Okay. Well, you sent us what I think is the most thorough application for anything that I've ever seen. I used to be on committees that looked for, you know, put out RFPs for architects. And I've never seen anything this complete, I have to say. It's pretty impressive. So I think has everyone on the committee read the materials that were presented? Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. So do you want to give us, since we've all read it, and it's very long, you don't have to go through all of it, but you are looking for two variances, one for the front door, front entrance of the Emily Dickinson, and one regarding the need or not need for an elevator, right? That's correct. Yes. Okay. So is there anything that you want to talk to us about specifically before we have our general conversation about it? I'm here prepared to just hit the high points with, in verbal description and also high point with a PowerPoint, some illustrations, if you would like to see. Okay. That would be good. Sure. If that would be helpful to the group, that's fine. Great. Then I will go ahead and pull this up. Okay. All right. So we're here to, as you explained, to request variances. We had variances in a previous project approved in 2016, but they are now expiring because of the value of this pending restoration project, which exceeds 30% of the assessed value of the property. So I'd just like to give you an overview of the museum property, the project we're bringing to you for your consideration, the request for variances, as well as existing and proposed ADA improvements. So the Emily Dickinson Museum is comprised of two historic houses connected to the Dickinson family, the Homestead, where Emily Dickinson lived and wrote nearly all the poetry we know of, and the Evergreens next door, which was the home of her brother and sister-in-law. The current project is focused at the Homestead, and it has a number of historic designations. It was determined to be a national historic landmark in 1966, has been listed individually on the National Register of Historic Places since then. It is a constituent property in the Dickinson National Register District. It is under the requirements of a preservation restriction with the Massachusetts Historical Commission because of various state grants we've received for its preservation in the past. And it is also a part of the Dickinson local historic district. The project we're undertaking is the most substantial project we've ever done at the Emily Dickinson Museum at the Homestead. And it's comprised of a couple of elements. First is mechanicals, the replacement of a heating ventilation and cooling system within the main block of the house, as well as rerouting and upgrading the electrical service entering the Homestead property. This portion of the project also includes the installation of a new furnace generator and chiller. The generator and chiller will be at the north end of, it's apologized for this map, it's difficult to see, but at the north end of a garage on a pad, so it's out of public view. And the installation of a transformer due east of the location of the garage. So at the other end of the property on the boundary with 20 Triangle Street, so it's just north of the lot on which the Homestead sits. The outside mechanicals will be enclosed with a seven foot high painted wood fence on the east and west and a nine foot high fencing on the north side. The north elevation of the garage becomes the south wall of the mechanicals enclosure. So part two of the project is partial interior restoration of seven rooms within the interior of the main block of the Homestead, that's the original 1813 portion of the building. And these, all of these areas have already been generally interpreted and open to the public, so we are wanting to take them from their roughly 20th, mid 20th century appearance back to setting in a presentation that Emily Dickinson herself would have been more familiar with. So the specific spaces are the northwest and southwest parlors, which run the entire depth of the house, then the two large stair halls on the first floor and on the second floor, a transverse hall between the dining room and the parlors, then a room at the top of the stairs, the northwest chamber, a passage and a closet between that northwest chamber and Emily Dickinson's room. So that would be returning it to its configuration in the 19th century. So the interior scope of work includes the removal of this 20th century strict flooring to expose the original wood floorboards. And then those original wood floorboards would be covered with period style floor coverings. There will be repairs to the interior doors because when the strip flooring was put in, the level of the floors was elevated, meaning that the bottom of the doors had to be reduced in order to clear the flooring. There will be the reinstallation of two pocket doors that separate the parlors. On the left, you can see the opening between the north parlor and the south parlor. And in that opening, there used to be two pocket doors that could close those two rooms off from each other. There will be, in the center slide, reconstruction of the front entry door and its surrounding masonry. We found, we were able to find the original 19th century door in the garage behind the house. And it's still in very good condition and we'll be able to put that back in place so that that front entry looks as it did in the 19th century. Let's see. There'll be a restoration of transom windows in the transverse hall. Removal of non-original architectural elements at the main staircase. So the main staircases here on the right along with the original front door stored in the garage were the original balusters from this staircase. So we will be able to reconstruct that staircase. Let's see. And some other items such as reconstructing the chamber boxes, I'm sorry, the fire boxes for in certain rooms where the floor level is going to change. And then to reinstall a mantle in the bedroom at the top of the stairs, again an item that was found in the garage. It's really interesting why and how the people who occupied the house in the 20th century took those things out and just kept them on site. A bit more of the work is, let's see, reconstructing a staircase that leads from the second floor to the third floor. Replacing interior storm windows. Removing the 20th century staircase from the second floor to the third floor. And installing insulation in several areas of the third floor. So that's a very long list. So it's quite a bit of work and we're really excited about what the outcome of this project will be and I wish I could show you something about what that looks like. But the variance requests we're asking for, their sole intent is to ensure that the historic character of the homestead is preserved. Whether through maintaining the existing architectural building elements or restoring and reconstructing missing elements features and finishes to recreate the appearance and function of the building to what Emily Dickinson would recognize during her lifetime. So the restoration approach to doing that means not introducing some modern elements that would make accessing the entirety of the house easier. There are, however, ways that the museum provides wide experience to the property and its history. But these are the two variances we're requesting, section 25 entrances and section 28 elevators. So what are the accessibility measures that we have been placed so far are an accessible exterior parking space directly behind the main entrance to the homestead and signage for that. There's an accessible exterior walkway and entry door and door hardware on the east side of the homestead rear addition. So that that goes into the same space that all visitors enter. There is an accessible interior toilet room. The interior doorways are wide enough for wheelchair access to the entire first floor, a water cooler in the public tour center, and an additional handrail on the main staircase from the first floor to the second floor that is ADA compliant. So that staircase has two handrails. We also have materials for visitors who can't ascend to the second floor in print, in video on an iPad, and are staffing in that area for during our regular tour operation. There's always someone on the first floor to talk about, describe, and interpret the second floor spaces with those who remain on the first floor. So we're going to keep all of those improvements in place and our restoration program brings opportunities with it for additional interpretive techniques that can serve a variety of visitors. So ultimately we'll be introducing sound, directed sound into the spaces. We'll have some projections to assist with visual interpretation. We expect to have some tactile materials, one of the big changes in this restoration is going to be introduction of carpets and window treatments, and all kinds of textile materials that give us an opportunity for for tactile interpretation. Following the restoration there will be a 360 photography of the entire building and every room within the building. So that will have the ability to have a 360 tour of the house of all the restored spaces for those who aren't able to reach the second floor. In addition, this year our plans include installing a compacted accessible path between the homestead and the evergreens that will facilitate wheelchair and scooter transportation between the two interpreted houses. And then ultimately in a future phase that's pretty well down the road six to eight years from now we're intending to reconstruct the barn that used to stand behind the homestead which will be a fully accessible universal access building. So that lies in our future. So that's that's our basic program and that concludes our formal presentation. And I guess the last thing I would say for now is that we're wanting to renew basically renew the variances approved in 2016. And this Access Advisory Committee offered a nice letter to the Massachusetts Architectural Advisory Board to support that request for variance. So I'd be glad to take questions or respond at any point however you would like. We have any questions? By the way, did Xander ever get here? We don't have Xander? No. No. But I believe Saren, I forget who was the last one who slipped into the meeting. Saren is here. Yes. Yeah, but Tori is not and Xander is not. Tori's here. Yep. Oh Tori is. Great. Okay, cool. I have a question about the garage or the barn or I forget the thing you're going to build in the next six to eight years. Yes. What was that again? I forget what you said. Oh yeah, in the 19th century a large barn stood behind the homestead and our goal, an important goal for the Emily Dickinson Museum is to reconstruct that building so that we can remove all of the administrative functions from the homestead and be able to restore the entire house. So that barn would then become a visitor center, have exhibits, accessible bathrooms, and program space. Okay. All right. That's you answer my question because I didn't know if it was going to be part of the museum or if it was going to be for administration or but you answer my question. Thank you. And the virtual tour for upstairs that is you can only view that if you're in the home like on the first floor or can that be viewed online? Yes, actually we've just received a grant from Mass Humanities to develop additional materials that that would already exist into a virtual tour that can be viewed on our website. We have kind of scattered sort of scattered information now but this project will really make that a coherent virtual experience for anyone. So I've been inside but I wasn't able to go to the second floor and I don't think you had. This was several years ago so my sister went upstairs and explained what the upstairs looked like to me. Yeah, I wish you had. Well, I don't know for sure when that visit was but we do at this point we have printed photographs and interpretation of the second floor in a notebook form and also in iPad form. So I'm not sure I don't remember if that was there then but this is maybe eight years ago. When you say interpretation in printed in iPad form what do you mean? Yeah, thank you. The term interpretation is the term we use in the historic house museum world to describe what information a tour guide would convey to visitors and that same information is converted into into text. So it would include information about Emily Dickinson's life, examples of her poetry, information about her family and relatives and the different influences and impacts on her as she became a working poet. So when you have it in iPad form are the people who work there familiar with how to or did they create the program such that it will read out loud or is it only visual? At this point it's only visual. Okay, I have a question about if if there were an elevator to get to the second floor well I guess the question before that is when you take people to the second floor when you will take people to the second floor will you be letting them go into any of the rooms or will you be letting them only stand in the hall and look through either a plexiglass door or you know stand behind a rope and look at what's in the rooms? They are able to go into the rooms fully. Okay, so do you have any sense of how wide those doorways are? Let me see if we have a have a I'm looking at the at the application here at the at the plans and let me see the door let's see two one the let's see one some doors are 30 inches wide another is 32 inches wide. Okay, so the 30 and 32 okay and making them wider would not be feasible it well I mean it would be different. It would it would be in conflict with our restoration objectives to okay you know to have the to have the house restored as it was in Dickinson's time. Well right she didn't know about air conditioning right I mean she it's not exactly the way it was in her time because she would have sweltered in the summer and nobody's going to and I know you're going to do it because it'll help preserve the materials and you know in the in the building I know you're doing it not because it was period air conditioned but because that's how to maintain you know without molding and all that other stuff so I get the climate control aspect but she didn't know about air conditioning right um well I mean yes our you know for us the objective is is preservation of the collection right no I understand that and and preservation of you know historic fabric is an important preservation no I understand I anybody have any any other questions I have I have a question I I kind of remember vaguely this was being brought up to DAC and we reviewed the plans and I remember also we talked about an entrance from the triangle street am I correct Sharon I believe that was not in relation to the homestead and that was in relation to the building the office building which is a separate building that's located on triangle street and and the Emily Dickinson Museum did provide a walkway from that building sort of the office building leading back to the homestead where there would be an an ADA parking spot and and I'm sure Jane could pull up this I plan to show you show that and then when we looked at the original plans a couple of years ago there was no elevator being planned right no correct and that was for the homestead at that time that was because volunteers or employees would not be going to the second floor was there sort of if memory serves me was there justification at the time so now plans are being changed I'm sorry that's not for the homestead that was for the office building sorry oh yeah so from a few years ago their variance request had nothing to do with the homestead building in how I had to do with the newly purchased building that's for their office administration sort of I see so when you said that the DAAC approved variances and you just want to extend them I'm confused about that in light of what Maureen just said in 2016 we requested variances these very same variances for the homestead in connection with another project in 2018 that involved the Triangle Street House so what we're what we're asking is is is if we could have the same variances that were granted in 2016 for the home when it was a much smaller project it or was it the same project it was a it was a different project it was a different restoration project at that point okay but now you've exceeded the 30 so actually what comes into play is very different no it was the it's the same circumstance in 2016 we exceeded the 30% oh you did anyway okay and now we are exceeding the 30% okay I'm a little confused because you're not planning on putting an elevator right because it would it would it would be too expensive well it would be too expensive but it would also interfere with the historical yeah exactly their plan of the yeah right there's not so uh the goal of fully restoring the homestead means that there's not a logical space for an elevator that could move between levels without without requiring a stack that would disrupt historic fabric and might even change the roof line right what about the outside one you wrote about an outside one right but that also would interfere with the historical right yeah the outside of the building that's right that's why it was that's why we considered it a a a poor option is that it would really really change the change the appearance dramatically yes workhouse I believe Marty had a question raise your hand was a really a question was more of a statement to put in an elevator in this house would just be it would destroy the layout of the house yeah and it's it would be very lot I mean you'd have to come back to us for a variance probably for a lula instead of a regular elevator because to put in a code compliant accessible elevator would take a huge footprint out of the house um and it will affect the roof line and trying to put it on the outside there's no place on the outside of the house because if you puncture from the outside of the house into the house you're going to be coming into a room not into the center hallway so it's it's just going to really screw up the the layout as far as I can tell just for your information I'm an architect and the other uh what was the other thing I was going to say about it oh we you didn't really talk about the front entrance but the front entrance as I understand it is not used except as an emergency exit um so it's not going to change the current pattern patterns so in this case I really I I would am for um accepting this I think this is the best feasible option and I played around with the program that you have for for showing what's going on upstairs and that was really quite interesting being able to really do a 360 you can look at the ceiling you can look at the floor um I think that would that's great and I know you're going to be putting in period fabrics and things you might want to think about in part of your display having a touch an area where people can actually touch the fabric so they won't be tempted to touch the fabrics upstairs yeah I also I also share your opinions too I I'm okay with no elevator because I don't want the the historical building damage in any way but the virtual view of upstairs I think that will be sufficient from my perspective so I will have no problem with with going along with this request and this story I I agree um I don't want the historical part of the house ruined for an elevator and I think the virtual tour is a wonderful idea yes because when I did when I visited before I I felt I was disappointed that I couldn't go upstairs but my sister was able to tell me what was there so but being able to actually see it on screen would be wonderful um somehow though could it be audible for people who cannot see it and um open captioned for if if there's any explanation of anything for people yeah yeah thank you yes Ruth whoops do you have a any any kind of comments I don't know if Ruth is muted she is muted um ask I'll ask to unmute yep Ruth you should be able to talk okay I didn't have a comment at this time oh you don't okay so you don't have you don't you don't have anything to say about whether you approve of it or not well yeah I pretty much approve of what they want to do okay Elise I approve of it as well I think it's great okay um so I'm perfectly happy to not um I'm perfectly happy to defer to the people who cannot get to the second floor um because they don't because they don't want to ruin the historic character of the building and I'm perfectly fine with not putting in the elevator because the people who wouldn't be able to get to the second floor um say that you've done something that seems sufficient to give them the information that they want I'm a totally blind person and I have to say my problem with almost all museums and it will continue to be a problem with this one is that first of all you almost never let blind people touch anything if you're going to let blind people get into some of the rooms and find out where the bed was and what the dresser felt like that would be nice I hope that you're not going to say oh no you may not touch it because everyone else can see it so if you're going to put maybe gloves out if blind people want to wear you know some gloves so they can touch the the the furniture to see what they what it is actually like that would be great and I um I mean I think it would be really important um because I've been to lots of museums where they say oh yes we have an accessible tour don't touch this don't touch that don't touch this we have a little booklet here and you can look at you know we have a you know a facsimile of the wallpaper see what the pattern feels like that's one of the patterns there are five in this place but that's one of them and um I can tell you that it's um it's no fun to go to these places so the fact that I can walk to the second floor is very nice but I hope that you'll be able to let people who walk in with a guide dog or a cane touch the things and I understand about body oils and stuff and all that so maybe you should have a box of gloves and say you may touch with gloves thank you Myra the other thing that I want to say um is what Tori said which is that that iPad thing when you go into some museums you can um purchase maybe for a dollar or two dollars this thing it's like a little tiny box and you can you know you press number seven and you know and and you listen through earphones and it tells you all the stuff about it and it's pretty descriptive they they are not created for blind people but they're really really thorough and it sounds like that's what you put into the iPad but what you put into the iPad so far has no audible access um so if you could get somebody to figure out how to get that either through a remote device or through the iPad itself to have audible access that would be a long way toward full accessibility um so those would be the two things that I would hope that you would do I have no problem with the front entrance at all you have you know you you don't even have a second class entrance you have a the regular entrance that everybody uses is accessible and I applaud for this and I think this is a great thing for the town and it's a great thing um that that you're all doing is any of this money coming from Amherst college or is it all privately raised it's private money really yes so they haven't put anything into it wow that's pretty impressive that's a lot of money and I would I figured that Amherst college was putting some of the bill but they're not no no it's a private gift yeah didn't you receive a donation from someone's life is that state that's correct it was a bequest that was um had to be put in well had to be put into an endowment and the distribution of income from that endowment fund is restricted to use for buildings grounds and collections so this this particular project is um perfect perfect for those restrictions that's pretty cool yeah all right so does someone want to make a motion about these variances but I just want to clarify so if the if the ipad uh tour for the upstairs is going to be audible then need some kind of caption and it's usually referred to as open captioning okay for people who are deaf or hearing yes thank you thank you for the clarification is the ipad thing the same thing that's available in the text book or is it different uh it it's the same thing it's the same thing but the um what is to be further developed is the virtual tour on the website so that that will actually be more complete it'll be a fuller more complete uh tour for the website that we can then um we can we can place on the ipad okay as long as that website tour is accessible and it talks I mean there are ways to make computers talk you might do it through recording that comes up when the picture changes I don't know how you want to do it but if there's text on the screen the text has to work through text to speech so with those changes I mean you're looking for variances um there's some well I I would say that the things that I that Tori and I brought up are not in your variance request um and I hope that that means that you will do them because that's part of access as well and I don't know how to write it in that you should also make the ipad um presentation and the website presentation uh accessible through auditory and caption can we put that in yeah so so the DAC is providing recommendations to the MAAB and I believe Jane is going through the AAB public hearing process next week so these recommendations will be provided to them and it will be up to the AAB to you know they'll they'll consider your recommendations as part of their approval process I think Elise has uh has raised oh please go yeah yeah um well one thing is I do want to um I think Marty brought up a really great point not Marty um oh god I'm going blank a brain fart anyway um I the yes the touch thing upstairs is with the gloves is very important to me as well but um when I know there are people who have hearing loss that don't do well for background noise and I was wondering where the ipad would be located um for looking at those and listening to those virtual tours would there be a lot of like coming and going and background sound that they have to deal with I don't know if this makes sense but I think it sounds good idea yes I understand uh your question um it's yeah it's available in the um first floor front hall uh there is um occasional movement between um um a hallway that leads uh from one side of the house into the parlors on the other side of the house so that goes through that large front hall and that's that's usually the only um um the only intrusive noise okay um yeah question uh might be would something like I don't know disposable headphones with that I mean is can you suggest a um solution I'm not hard of hearing I just um but I you know I'm just thinking of others that are and um and I do also have a thing with about background noise myself um I maybe headphones can can focus you more you know um I know that headphones could be expensive um but that could be an option I don't don't know what to suggest I just you know I'm just thinking of that as it might be an issue okay maybe you could have people um they could go up to the if you made it apparent that people could borrow or rent you know put a deposit down on a headphone and now that everybody's cleaning everything right um maybe you can just you know you can have three or four headphones and clean them um you know when people return them you know would disinfect them and people do that now so um but I think that's a really good idea so does someone want to make a motion that incorporates um the things that we've said and let me just comment I think that cleaning head headsets in between would be much better than having disposable um headsets or whatever you were referring to um yeah and that can be done easily with Clorox wipes yeah you want better quality sound you know if you're gonna have headsets you don't want crummy ones mm-hmm yeah but there's so many cleaning products out now I mean you can just alcohol them you can do whatever you know that's what I do mine yeah yeah so does someone want to make a motion I'll make a motion okay go for it second well you gotta make the motion that we approve this with the um with the recommendations that we have mentioned do I need to mention them all again I think Maureen has to know what to write down so so far I have um you know the the DAAC is fine with the variance requests as submitted um and you recommend that the applicant provide audible and open caption interpretation devices both for the for the website and on site and um and for the on site accommodations they should provide headphones be offered uh and um and have allow blind people or persons with low vision be able to touch fabrics on the first floor oh on any floor or I mean yeah wherever you're on any for you oh yeah yeah yeah yeah on um yeah throughout the uh in building how about that and um if I may um perhaps um you know on the website there should be um I don't know if the word is disclaimer or not but a um a a um a note saying those who need accommodations you know please call this number email us so you can um because some of this I've often seen especially in museums is that there are some museums that have state-of-the-art accessibility accommodations but no one knows about them including employees and that they just sit in closets for years and um visitors and employees don't know about them so to um educate the employees and to um you know where it makes sense to make it known on the website at the front door or whatever at the where people buy their ticket or what have you that to make it apparent and maybe even your voice message for the the homestead about providing accommodations okay thank you yeah that's good and I I really want to make it clear I I understand that a lot of touching can really destroy things over time so I'm very aware of that but I really I think there are ways for you to make it possible for people to touch things and not ruin them and gloves I don't know if they have those cheap cotton gloves or if they have those you know to use just like the ones that everybody's using now you know I don't I don't know if that would damage furniture I don't know but I would hope that you would have a way for people to touch things instead of saying oh no don't touch that don't touch that we have a little book here no I think the the gloves are easily acquired and uh are are you know inexpensive easy to use and I think that's a good that's a good uh suggestion a good accommodation okay all right so do you have something you can read Maureen or should we just trust that we're you're going to put it in a readable form with all the stuff that you very nicely took down yeah so I think yeah those items uh you know that I just said audible and open open caption interpretation be provided for both the website and for onsite um and that you know for the in addition for onsite there'd be headphones offered that uh for the interpretation and um those with visual impairments be allowed to touch fabrics in the building and be provided gloves and and to um and you know to provide a notification to the public uh about these accessibility accommodations well I would change fabrics to features but other than that that that's great thank you that's very thorough okay we have a second from lease right second okay all right were we gonna roll call this um well I'll call it a lease here yes seren yes Ruth yes Tori yes um and uh marty yes and I'll vote yes so that's cool thank you this is great you have um do you know when this is going to be completed do you have a timetable I forget it we're aiming to reopen um next spring so it'll take about a year okay yeah so you think you think maybe like by memorial day ish or oh I uh uh we're hoping for march in 2022 okay that's cool right so the museum will not be open at all during renovations that's correct yeah it's a pretty uh pretty extensive project and it's going to be a big mess for a while oh this is great has it been closed during the pandemic yes it has yeah we've been closed since last march 15th just like everything else absolutely that's right yeah well I want to thank you all for for hearing our our request and for this what's been a really helpful discussion for us uh in planning to move forward and we have uh so your suggestions are very helpful and we have um this next year or two to continue to work them into our into our tours and our experiences for visitors well you can always come back to us about the accessibility issues for the website and stuff because we could let you know thank you yeah thank you I mean that would be really good if you would come back next spring and say this is where we are this is what we've done and what do we need to continue to do does it work all right because sometimes sometimes um the people are told that they work and then the people who have to use them find out that they don't right yes okay thank you great so thank you so much thank you thank you thank you and that was all that was on the agenda for today so uh I I'll let Myra yeah so are you guys are uh readable to adjourn yes Maureen I have a question sure and uh I can never log in through my laptop to our zoom meetings I can only through I try to do it with my laptop for quite a while and I gave up and I can only do it on my iPhone so is there something that I am missing or um you know you might it might be helpful if you download the zoom app to your computer to your laptop um so you are able to um critically uh sometimes people have expressed that they have issues using zoom on their personal computer or laptop using the browser but I can provide you a link to download the zoom app and that might help your situation I'm not really sure what the specific situation is for you but want to try that and see what happens I would I really would but I think our meetings are the only ones I cannot do man you know I'm a member of Zanta Club we always do webinars and I have no problem whatsoever so it's interesting with this thing yeah I don't know that's interesting that's good to know um well let's try that let's uh I'll send you a link um to zoom and it'll let you download it to your laptop and we'll see if that works if that doesn't work maybe I could ask one of someone from our IT department to okay help you shoot you okay all right all right thank you so much do we need a motion to adjourn uh I don't think so but no okay and we're not we're just adjourned okay bye see you next time