 and let's get straight into our first panel discussion, an interesting one at this hour. In today's data rich environment, to be truly loved, brands have to go beyond mechanical connection to a more personal level. To discuss more on the topic, brand love, going beyond algorithms, we have an eclectic panel of speakers to discuss this topic. So warm welcome first to our session chair. Please welcome Mr. Ruhail Amin, Senior Editor Exchange for Media Group, and also our panelists. Please welcome Amit Setia, Head Marketing CISCA Group, Melind Patak, Chief Business Officer Root Mobile, Mr. Narayan Sundra Raman, Head of Marketing Bajaj Auto, Mr. Nicholas Contopoulos again, Asia Pacific Regional Head of Marketing Adobe DS Commercial, and of course, Simran Basin, Vice President for Brands and Adventures, Lestius, and over to you, Ruhail, for this very interesting brand love going beyond algorithms. Thank you, Mithin. Thank you for being there, and welcome to my, or welcoming all my panelists here on this first panel, which is about brand love and how do we look beyond the number game and build that essential emotional connect? I want to dive down straight into the discussion, and I would come to you first, Simran, to you first, the only lady on the panel. Let me, we are dealing with, we have spoken so much about data, and we have taken it as the, if I may use the word, holy grail of marketing to an extent that nothing, no conversation is complete without referring to big data and algorithms. So tell me in all of this, where does the emotional connect? I mean, where does it go? How do we build emotional connect when we are data driven, when numbers are the only thing that we see? This is the perspective I want to get from all of you starting with you, Simran. Thank you so much, Ruhail. Firstly, excited to be a part of this panel and to listen into what everyone has to say. Nicholas, that was a wonderful session. Thank you for that. Ruhail, I just, I just wanted to sort of start off with this. You've talked about the data driven world, but I think the world of brands is one that cannot work without any human connection. And I think the only way the two can coexist is that when you look at data, you try and understand the human connection and the human reasons behind the numbers. All numbers tell us a story. And if you're going to try and infer only from numbers what is happening without understanding the story behind it or the reasons behind it, you would be reading the data completely wrong. And I think that's what separates a good decision from a great decision. Data can give us some wonderful points, but how we read and what we put by them, the fact that we dig into our own gut or 22 feet of it is as important as the numbers that are staring us through our reams and reams of Excel sheet. Right. And line to you, my question that if I want to understand your brand positioning and strategy of dealing with data and yet remaining that emotionally available to your customers, how do you build bringing these two different things together in your approach? Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Rohil. So I think we're inundated with data. And my experience over the last few years, especially in a category which are called assets like motorcycles are, is that a lot of this data is a lot of noise. So in order to, you need to keep certain frameworks and certain principles in mind if you're sort of have to float and swim in the sea of data rather than sink in it. And for me, there are two things. I think one is you need to listen very carefully. And I think the second is it's very important to bounce off from this data and convert them into meaningful insights. And how, you know, what you listen, how does it relate to, you know, what actually the customer is maybe feeling or maybe trying to communicate to you. Because data at the end of the day is a set of signals. And, you know, each day, the number of signals that we pick up is, you know, fast expanding, it is limitless. I mean, it just requires, as the cost of storage goes down, the amount of data goes up. But I really struggle to find a lot of value in the sort of linear way in which a lot of, you know, data scientists, so to say, talk about it. So in short, I would, I mean, I still go back to the fundamentals of, you know, do we have good insights coming out of this data? Can we build a story, you know, that can talk to us as well as talk to the customers and then act on it. And, you know, at the end of it, it could be a judgment call, it could be a gut call, whatever you call it. But it has to be on the basis of some strong facts and insights. Right. Nicholas, coming to you, Narayan raised a point that you don't hear very often that most of the data is noise at times, and we are just obsessed with it, you know. And also in my earlier conversation where I was trying to understand this topic and talking to my panelists, I raised another point that, you know, we need not broad brush the conversation around data that every sector finds is as relevant as maybe the big social platforms. One, do you agree, Nicholas, that there is noise in the data in the numbers? How do you avoid that noise, first of all? And secondly, can we broad brush the concept of data that it applies likewise across sectors or is it different in different sectors? I think it's a great question, and I really am excited to be on this panel with such great talent actually. So yeah, in terms of data, obviously, without a doubt, I agree, there's so much data out there, we're swimming in it, and it's only going to continue to increase. I think it's important that we as brands need to look at how we become that signal in the noise for customers so that they're able to find us. Because as we said, there's a lot of signals, a lot of noise out there for them, you know, when they're trying to find answers to their question. And if we come back to my earlier talk, this is this idea of brand utility I'm talking about is how do you create a positive signal that cuts through the noise for those customers looking for solutions to the problems that they are either aware or not aware of? That's the challenge for each of us. Certainly, me as a marketer, that's what I'm trying to do when I look at the content I'm creating and how I'm pushing that out there. I want that to be a signal for other marketers to zero in on. So I think that's the same challenge for all of us on this panel today and the companies we're working for is how do we become that signal? Because if you become that signal, it's a lot harder for you to find your customers and have them come to you. Yeah, that's it. Because that's where you ultimately have the ultimate pool marketing working in your favor, you know, they're searching you out. So I don't know if my the fellow panelists would agree with that, but that's sort of how I would look at it. Right. Amit, tell me your, I mean, how is your brand positioning as far as data is concerned and the algorithms are concerned and how do you get those insights into an emotional messaging? So, first of all, thank you so much for having me here and I completely agree with what Naran actually mentioned, you know, as far as data is concerned. See, we marketeers love to make at times, I think, you know, things very complex just because we want to believe that we have done something really meaningful. I think that is an honest confession. But when you look at the whole story of this brand Syscar, so not like we never had data, right? The data was always around, but beyond data, what we had was a strong customer insight. See, data can always, you know, always help you to give insights, but there is always this small, you know, percentage possibility of error that might happen because ultimately data gives you more of assumption as well because you're assuming basis your data, right? But because you have a strong customer insight, I think we were able to really position the brand so strongly in this country and, you know, the insight was about, you know, saving money because in India, you know, when it is about saving money, everybody gives you a lot of attention, you know, and I think that is what the fundamental benefit of LED as a product is, right? So, while I know I'm charging comparatively a higher amount compared to other lighting devices, but because I'm talking saving in the long run, you know, people are able to believe in my storytelling, that is what even Nicholas mentioned, right? A strong compelling story needs to be narrated. And I think that is how we have been able to position Syscar, you know, from the last five to six years beautifully. So, I think, yes, I agree again on this very discussion topic that data is important. But how much of data is important is also very important to be considered because it might lead to something to be which is not really the true picture of your customer. I want to come to you, Milind, to understand the marketeer's mind here, you know. Are marketeers actually obsessed with numbers alone or where do the customer emotions figure in your estimation when you talk to your friends in the community? So, let me try and take a slightly different take on both the top points, right? The data and the brand experience, which Nicholas so beautifully put in his presentation. By the way, Nicholas great, fantastic, would love to get that presentation and look at it, please. You just breeze through it. So, I'm trying to articulate my point with one small experience. Everybody in this conference would experience, right? We wake up every morning, we put our food down the bed and we try and wear a slipper. Now the experience of having the web of a slipper between your thumb and the first finger is absolutely intuitive to all of us, right? I have never worn a slipper which has that web on the third and the fourth finger. Has anybody worn it? I don't think so. But now. Not in the morning. Not yet. Not in the morning. Yeah, not yet. Now imagine the job of a product guy who developed that insight saying the most convenient slipper will be between the thumb and the first experience. For me, experiences are so subliminal and within the brand philosophy and a thought that you forget that it is an experience and that in itself is an experience. And if you look at great brands like Apple, they have made, there are two things the way I classify as experiences. Great brands who unleash experiences and good brands who manage experiences. I believe great brands are always unleashed experiences which are so subtle that a consumer does not even know that, oh, I'm experiencing such side convenience. Another great brand that I want to take an example is say Patreon and I might be biased because I've worked with that brand for three, four years. But the transfer of money is so seamless that you expect, oh, it's my birthright to be experiencing that experience. And that for me is a great experience. Let's take another example, Apple. I think it came somewhere in 90s, early 90s when the first laptop came and MacBook came somewhere in mid 2000, 2005, 2006 at that point in time. I wonder if Steve Jobs had CDPs and DMPs to his passion points to try and analyze millions of data that point through you might, oh, customers need simplifications of laptops. I thought he went on share consumer experience. So I think while data is critical, I think we sometimes overrated. What is very, very critical for me is that subliminal experiences that I'm able to deliver for a brand. And I've been forefront of sales, marketing, BD for almost 20, 25 years in my life. Great sales guys are not the guys who sell great products. Great sales guys got the guys who solve problems. I think problems are solved always by insights and experiences. And I love the example what Nicholas gave of Singapore. I don't think they picked up from anywhere else. I think Jesus went on building and they made that experience as a default of experience at an airport. And that's why they unleashed a great airport in itself. And you'll find this brand after brand. And now we as perhaps students of this domain, now we look at them and say, oh, this is how they did it. But the art and science of that is going through the experience and maybe modeling a little bit here and there on insights that derive out of the market. We all know whether it's a television, whether it is a print, whether it is digital. You work on statistical elements of the nearest audience cut and feel that you want to touch. You really don't do every consumer or holy grail of marketing is personalized communication to every consumer in the world. But you always run it on a statistical proximity of that audience. So I think for me, data is important for that statistical problem. But what really, really, really matters is who is thinking to make the experience of the brand so subliminal that the consumer does not even know that it is a great experience. And he takes it like his birthright. Great. I think very valid point raised. I think we all agree to what you've said. I'll come in quickly to you back, Sumeran. Is there a way, is there a strategy that we can look at that can combine numbers with emotions? Are we close to it? Do you think I mean, marketeers can't rely on numbers alone to create that emotional connect? Is there a formula? Is there a science to building numbers, combining numbers and emotions? Yes, absolutely. And I'm going to take, I'm going to take Lysius's example here, right, when Abhay and Vivek, the co-founders, set out almost six years ago now on this. See, the numbers part comes from the opportunity, right? You have a large, you have a category and you have a large size population and you understand what your consumption in the market is and you know you've got a large size opportunity and that's your big data telling you that this entering this category is making business sense, right? Now, there are multiple choices as to how you enter that category, right? What kind of a brand do you build? How do you position it, right? What is the reason you give consumers to connect with you, right? And that's the part where if you miss out on the emotion there, right? You will lose a very powerful opportunity to begin your journey on the road connecting with brand love, right? And here I think they started with a very, very simple credo, right? Their passion for meat and their love for meat is where their journey and their shared sort of connection began on the journey with Lysius. And I think as they started sort of understanding what the opportunity out there is, some very simple tenets is what sort of held Lysius in good stead and will continue to do so in the future, right? And these are all the emotional aspects of it, right? And one very important one that I think all of us live by every single day is that we will not sell what we cannot feed to our own families, right? Now there's no number to this, right? All our families are what, four in number, right? Two kids and two adults. And that's not an algorithm to go by, but it's a very simple tenet that helps each one of us sort of filter every single decision that comes in saying that is this the right decision that will deliver the output of a great quality product that I would be comfortable sort of feeding my family. And I think for me, since the time I've come on board Lysius, I've realized it's simplified decisions so much, right? Whether you look at products, whether you're looking at how you're going to take communication out there, you know, I mean, is this, am I going to be comfortable feeding my daughter this? And the answer comes immediately. And I think that instinct as a human being comes sort of far, far faster and easier as a member of the family as a parent, right? And it's really sort of driven all our decisions to a point where, you know, we've, I would say, one of the really interesting things that I've realized in Lysius is, beyond the reams and reams of data, you know, customer calls that are coming in, feedback emails that are coming in and so on and so forth, there's a very simple system where we decided we need to know, even if there's one person out there who is experiencing something a certain way and that experience is not optimal and they're not happy about it, we need to know about it. But how do you get millions of consumers to talk to you, right? And because by and large, I mean, consumers, if you're happy, you don't say anything because you're expecting a brand to make you happy, right? When you're not happy, you're still not saying anything. When you do actually call up customer care or send them that email to write about a bad experience, you've reached a level that is so high, you're so, so upset and annoyed that you have taken that extra effort to actually go figure out the customer care number and email ID and take time out to send feedback in, right? That's already true, right? And a very simple section where all employees today, any experience, either we have personally experienced with our products or any friend and family member who's more likely to call us, right? Or send us a message and say, hey, Simran, there was something wrong with your product today. I just didn't like this experience, right? And we feed it in to an email called voiceatlicious.com, right? And that goes to every senior manager within the company, including the co-founders, right? And gets picked up, gets analyzed immediately because it may be one data point in terms of one consumer that's had that experience. But there could be hundreds and thousands who have simultaneously had a similar experience. So if we can fix that one, we know we are anticipating proactively and creating an experience, improving it before it becomes this big volley that it actually reaches you because by the time it gets picked up in research, it's already too late. Absolutely. I mean, not taking customers so lightly. I mean, reaching out, listening and proactively trying to understand them. Absolutely. I think these are another, this can be the layer of understanding to the numbers. Nicholas, to you, you know, with this deluge in data, give me your sense of how can technology help marketeers make their strategies more pointed, you know, and perform under campaigns or their brands can perform better? What is your advice to marketeers? Well, first advice, which is going to sound counterintuitive for everyone here, for I have a marketer, represents a technology company, but technology alone will not solve all your problems. I think this is the God's honest truth. And when I talk to leaders, I always say this, an actual fact, I've actually refused to sell my software to businesses that don't really understand what they're trying to solve in terms of problems, because at the end of the day, you know, the project will fail. You really need to look at people, process and technology. And I know it sounds cliche, but I think we've heard that today, you know, from the various panelists that it's really important that we think about how we harness that data. And ultimately, the insights you get require a human input, a human element, you know, of interpretation, you know, and through that interpretation will come, you know, the creative that will lead to the campaign that also the creative idea that will lead to a campaign that ultimately will drive people to a website or to a store. So you need to bring your people, processes and technology. How do I get aggregate that data across organization? So then you go look at knocking down the internal silos that exist inside an organization and, you know, marketing and sales and customer service have to come together and unify themselves around what they're trying to achieve. So I really say to people, start with looking at how you can bring, you know, the different stakeholders that are going to be needed together around the table. Obviously, make sure you've got the right people, you're hiring the right people that can actually power that decision making process. And without a doubt, don't I'm not downplaying technology, it's going to be the difference between your, you know, your success or failure in terms of the types of technologies you bring together to ultimately translate, you know, to deliver on those insights that enable you to address those experienced gaps that you might have. So yeah, it's a combination of technology, people and process, but with that technology, I mean, you know, obviously, the world's going through a pandemic at the moment, you know, with a lot of the markets shutting down, staying in touch and in communication with your customers and prospects at scale is actually something that's been quite important, you know, a lot of the brands that didn't maybe have that, you know, direct digital engagement have been left exposed in not being able to have that ongoing, you know, engagement. What we saw in our customer bases, brands that had really invested in having the technologies that enabled them to communicate and stay in touch at scale have really ultimately had to have been able to navigate the challenges a lot more easier. But like I said, it's, it's, it's those three elements coming together that will drive the transformation, people process and technology. It will help drive transformation, not just technology on its own. Yeah. Narayan, earlier in my earlier answer, you went, I mean, it was very interesting to hear you bust certain myths about data. Tell me more about the next layer of your conversation that where does data belong in this entire marketing approach? Have we overwhelmed ourselves with the power of data? What is the right approach to take to look at data in your view? It's an interesting question. I think it depends on, you know, what two things I think which category you are talking about. And also, what's your business model? Look, if your business model depends on on data, then I think you should really, really take it very, very seriously. When I say your business model, what does it depend on? I mean, at the end of the day, as Amit was saying, I mean, you're selling Cisco at the end of the day, right? You're selling a set of products. Ultimately, we sell a range of bikes. We expect a customer to buy a bike. He's not buying data. So I think it is very important to stay true and do stuff which is, you know, relevant to the category in which you operate and combine it with what drives your business. I think for a lot of the e-commerce players, you know, platforms or social media platforms, they thrive on data. And for them, I'm guessing more data is actually better. I think the watch out as far as, you know, businesses like, say, a Bajaj Auto is concerned where we're selling motorcycles is not to sort of get overwhelmed by all of this. And I also have this theory that, you know, all of us have now been educated with what I call a very engineering framework in mind. Our belief from the time, you know, we've been in school, it's always metricized. You know, there's a score. The score tells you how bright you are. The score tells you whether you get to a certain, you know, college or not. So I think we feel very easy and comfortable with it. And therefore this innate sort of belief that, you know, data can tell you everything. But life is not about data. I mean, life and, you know, for example, for most of our customers who buy commuter bikes or three wheelers, life has been very tough in the last one year. Now, if you can imagine, and I have a slightly contra view to Nicholas and in this that sometimes I think it is better not to sort of reach out to customers. Currently, if my customers are going through a period of pain and their sentiment is not very low, sending them a sales message or sending them a bright, cheery branding message, or, you know, very rara come by me because I'm, you know, sort of got a great discount is not correct because the entire environment and the sentiment of purchase thrives on positive positivity, right? Buying something is whether we like it or not is very consumerist and, you know, it's celebrated. I mean, people who buy bikes or say three wheelers are committing a very significant portion of their income streams to that purchase. And for them, it's a very big thing. You know, and if currently the context is that, you know, they're not sort of in the, you know, having a great time in their lives. I really question whether, you know, marketers need to reach out at this point in time. So I'm not completely in sync with that. I think you need to be in tune with how your customers' relevance is very important, sentiment is very important in categories. And, you know, right now, for a lot of the e-commerce players, I think it is absolutely the right time to reach out to your customers. So I don't think it's one size fits all. I think to answer your question, a lot depends on the category that you operate in. And more importantly, what's your business model? I think you need to be crystal clear about that. Yeah, I just want to definitely jump in and I agree 100% with your sentiment there. I think it's more around, again, you set it really well knowing your customers and that and the market segment you're in. But being able to stay in touch with relevant information and certainly not selling, I agree 100% on that when you're going through a dark time. But more again, like through that notion of providing a service proposition, you know, utility, you know, so and a different avenue for them to connect. I think, you know, if they're not able to meet, so some of our customers, they didn't have the ability to physically meet with their customers anymore. So therefore, the connection through the digital challenge became important because customers still wanted to engage. So I agree 100% with you. That's where the marketer needs to use their smarts and understanding that it's not about selling at this point in time. It's about serving 100%. Thanks for that point. I think it was a very good point to call out. So yeah, thank you. And my personal favorite is your, you know, when you are trying to address the obsession with numbers that we are, you know, kind of groomed to grow with. I was still maybe obsessed with it, but I'll talk to you later on that. Amit, tell me, how do you listen to customers, you know, at Cisco? First, we are looking beyond algorithms, we're looking beyond data. Customer is not just a number, you know. How do you ensure that you're listening to your customers and understanding the needs? What all do you deploy technology or what are the different methodologies that you use? So I'll answer this question in three parts. First is, I think a lot is being spoken about data. And we all respect data, we all want the data. But I think it's very important for us to be honest about as to what we are trying to really prove, you know, because this whole, you know, function marketing is now stressed highly because of the fact that we are chasing ROI. You know, everybody wants results to happen in no time in marketing. More or less the nature of engagement is transactional, right? I think these are the hard realities of what we end up doing, either knowingly or unknowingly. You know, I'm just keeping this open-ended because we have a lot many categories which are represented in this panel discussion. But somewhere this keeps us under a lot of pressure, right? So I think that is where it is very important to, you know, really keep few things really away from data. Now, this is where I am answering your second part, which is about what we do in Cisco. So one part is obviously the data which we have spoken at length right now. But the second part is, you know, is your offering is able to cut through what is being required genuinely and organically by the customers, right? Because I want to sell you something and you have to buy is not going to work. And more so in this category, imagine, which is almost like a commodity, a bulb is a bulb is a bulk. At the end of the day, it's a bulk, right? And it has got no organic engagements. Like imagine all of you guys, you will not even remember how many bulbs are there in your own home, what all brands are you guys using, what all wattages these products are actually representing within your house, right? Nobody's aware about it, but everybody wants to talk great things about it, right? And that is where the whole importance comes that while your data is talking and backing you up, you need to also go and check the ground reality by talking to your customers, right? I remember there were a lot of interesting programs that we did, you know, in example, we had the Cisco your home, your home campaign, where we actually went to the customers that not the customers, but the prospects, right? And we actually spoke to them. We had our own technical devices in place, which actually showed them as to, you know, if, you know, they replace their existing, you know, lighting devices by any LED, I'm not plugging Cisco by any LED product, what kind of saving will come to them, right? And, and they were able to believe that whole experience because it was happening right in front of their eyes. And this is something which is very, very credible, right? So it's not only about saving money, which is obviously the bigger proposition, but also the experience that we created. And I think these are some of the very key things that we adopted, you know, way back when we started the journey because of which we became today what we became, right? So I think that's where the magic lies that, you know, you need to have a great insight, you need to go and talk to your customers and, and be honest, I think that's more important. Absolutely, absolutely. I know Mr. Narayan has a, I'm sorry, hard stop at four o'clock. I want to come to you before I come to Melinda. Narayan tell me, you know, there is another thing happening that machines, though we know are not great at reading emotions, but there is a concept that algorithms are being designed to understand and predict emotions. True, of course, right now they are not doing a great job because they depend on facial expressions with human beings, of course, can mask. Tell me, in future, do you see algorithms, you know, itself understanding becoming emotionally intelligent as well? Sorry, your audio is muted. I was saying that just hearing that was, I was going back to several science fiction novels that I've read about, you know, I think Philip K. Dick and Arthur C. Clark and The Rise of the Machines etc. Yeah, that's right, that's right. So look, I mean, I think I think we all will be more surprised at how dumb artificial intelligence and machine learning is right now compared. And yeah, maybe it has great potential, etc, etc. But, you know, and that's where I think it is. I have, I mean, it shows a lot of promise and a lot of potential, but I don't think it's been actualized at present. Now in the future, and let me boil it down to say very sharply into, say, marketing and communication development work, right? I think a few years ago, I read an article saying that there's a Japanese agency which where, you know, they'd replace the creative directors with some kind of an artificial intelligence algorithm and I don't know what happened. So I was reading the story and I was talking to my agency partners and my friends in the creative department. And if I just sort of look back at the end of the day, I think it will still be in the in the reams of science fiction. I think the ability for humans to sort of connect with others and understand and then translate that to something that the other persons can sort of relate to is a very uniquely human, human ability. So I think it will take a long, long time for this to be replicated completely. There's always the chance that may happen that something good will come out of it, but if I was to understand your question, right, I don't see an algorithm completely replacing all elements of the marketing system. Certainly, you know, when you have to recognize patterns where, you know, you have data regarding behavior that customers or people are exhibiting, they are sending out signals. I think spotting those patterns absolutely and what is sort of known as a kind environment. I think I can expect the algorithm to really do a very good job. But, you know, the minute it comes to unkind environment, as they call it, where things may be very volatile, where things will be very uncertain, you know, you don't know how, you don't know how people's reactions will be or they may change. I think human intervention or human ability will always trump an algorithm with regards to the creative process. Perfect. Thank you so much. I know you have a hard stop at four. Thanks for joining us today. Yeah, I'm sorry to cut out, but I have a meeting that I need to attend. So it was great meeting all of you, my co-panelists, and thank you, Rohil. Thanks. Myrin, your thoughts on this. Can the coming together of, can this puzzle be sorted if you have the, you know, algorithms and the emotional intelligence merged into one? So, if I have to really crystal ball gaze, I think yes. I think the issue is time. If 50, 60, 70 years ago, somebody would have said, oh, you can carry a phone anywhere from India to U.S. and just speak seamlessly with any person anywhere in the world. Maybe people would have laughed at their ideas. Come on. You need a physical line. You need a dial-up connection and so on and so forth. If somebody would have said, oh, am I going to send a human to a Mars someday, people would have said, yeah, maybe possibly maybe not. So for me, it's given perhaps that if not this day someday, artificial intelligence and the robotic designs would mimic humans as much possible. Certain elements like deep human emotion, official expressions, maybe still early, maybe it will take 100 years to 180 years, but eventually things will come. We ourselves are in a communication space and we ourselves actively work on processes and technology which replace humans. What I mean is let's take a simple example of a contact center solution. All of us as brands have contact centers. When the first call comes to the completion of the transaction or a customer query request or a complaint, you have a very high probability that you're completely automating that process as much possible on the digitized voice record, IVR, as they call it, with trying to prevent the ability or the need to pass it to a human live agent. So as much possible, you want to complete the transaction there and there itself on the platform. Now, this is nothing but a digitized form of some kind of machine learning or some kind of an intelligence which is non-human in a way. I agree with Narayan that on certain areas, the evolutions are early, but I think we will evolve and become more and more sharp. Mind you, I'll also give a context to certain human element. While technology is very critical and there are chances of we being replaced at active work scenario by robots does exist. But look at India, we are such a unique country. You go to Nariman Point in any biddling, you have a lift or as they call it elevator, but then you have a liftman sitting outside whose job is to pick you up from a ground floor and take you to every floor around there. Now, this is very unique to India. I think human interventions will never be removed, but the possibility of certain tasks being robotized is very, very high. And that's for me is a clear win for an artificial intelligence that you don't make humans redundant, but you try and remove some tasks so that you still make humans relevant in some other area. I hope I have been able to give you a perspective on both. But I think India is concerned. Imagine if tomorrow someone comes and says, oh, you know, 60% of your population is going to be replaced with robots, there'll be social riots. Because how will you feel, right? So you have to be very careful, you have to be very careful of a evolution of the technology, evolution of our race as it goes along using some of these technologies. And one has to be really, really careful. It has to solve problems. And the purpose of that is not replacement. The purpose of that is augmentation. And I think that has to be clear. And there are projects, papers, research is being done on ethical use of artificial intelligence and so on. So both I think that's something for some other topic. But I guess we need to be very, very careful. Absolutely. So I have exactly nine minutes. I want to come with one round of questions. First to you, Nicholas, in our earlier connect yesterday, you raised a point around, you know, beyond, moving beyond personalization to individualization, you know, yesterday. Tell us more about it. This sounds very interesting. Give me a sense of what you meant by it and to all the panelists. Sorry, the audio is muted. Yeah, sorry. So, yes, now, I think delivering a personalized experience at scale now is pretty much possible. And a lot of people listening today would be doing this in their companies in terms of the way, you know, sending out emails with the first name, etc. And the analogy I'll use here, though, is, you know, I'm a regular flyer, was before the pandemic, you know, I fly with Singapore Airlines or other airlines. And you when you when you have a map, you know, you're part of the their programs, you get given a card. And then when you arrive at the plane, they will say, hey, Mr. Contopolis, welcome back, great to have you on the plane. And then guide you to your seat. And that and that feels very lovely. It's nice. It's like, oh, they recognize who I am. And they're acknowledging me, but they'll do the same message to everyone else behind me that's also a member, you know, you know, has status. Yeah, that's a great example of personalization at scale. It's not really unique. It's the same message, the same experience being delivered. It just gives you that sort of momentary feeling of, you know, not importance, I guess. What would individualization look like in the same scenario? Would it be them greeting me, taking me to my chair and then having a happy birthday sign, you know, my favorite piece of cake and, and, you know, champagne, my favorite drop of champagne ready for me there. That's individualization. That is the individualization of an experience. Yeah. And this is again, the challenge now for us as marketers is how do we take that next level go beyond personalization to individualization. And this is again where the data technologies elements do come together in how enabling us to do that, you know, that's what we need to be looking at. But so yeah, that's the new frontier for all of us is how do we individualize that, you know, our experience is our content, you know, at scale. So yeah, does that help answer the question in terms of my thoughts on that? Absolutely, absolutely. Sumerun to you, though you touched upon it, but I just want to hear once more, you know, what are the big emotional motivators that brands can use to connect with consumers beyond just sales? You earlier referred to actively proactively looking at it. And also one additional question, my favorite, what is the biggest marketing myth in your view? Biggest marketing myth. Okay, I'm going to come back. Okay, maybe I'll start with that. The biggest marketing myth is that we marketers know what we're doing, right? We don't and I think that's why we're grappling with data. And I'll tell you the, you know, the double edged sword, you know, aspect of working with data trying to understand, you know, where can I find some answers, right, which direction do I go in? Is that, you know, we've talked so much about algorithm today, right? The data is only reflecting the past. Yeah, if you talk about predictive algorithms, predictions are happening based on something that's happened in the past, right? And that's the biggest problem that all of us marketers are dealing with is that we're all looking in the rearview mirror. When are we going to break through with something new? If we are going to keep looking at data that's reflecting what's already happened in the past, right? And I don't think we've talked about Apple here today. You know, I think one of the foremost is research is not going to get you that big idea out there. That is when you have to throw out the data. And that's when you actually have to sort of open your mind and expand and think about sort of what are the possibilities that today I don't just, I just don't see happening, but, you know, tomorrow I wish I could sort of, you know, see it come to life and throwing those crazy ideas out there or throwing sort of thoughts out there that connect human beings, right? And I think one such connection, you know, that I don't think started with the data point or an algorithm was perhaps something that all of us are, apologies, that's one of my three dogs. You're going to keep hearing this barking as I talk. But, you know, Facebook, right? I think it just started with a simple human emotion of staying connected. I'm not getting into the backstory of sort of where it sort of other sort of reasons that sort of told its origin story. But it's a simple connection. It's a human connection, right? You've also touched upon Rohail and asked about what are the different emotions that marketers can use, right? I think love is a very powerful one. But right on the other extreme fear is an equally powerful one, right? Feeding on the fear of what would happen to your loved ones, for example, right? And insurance sort of works on that fear, right? So then there are many brands that work on both sides of the spectrum and are equally, equally successful and it depends on what category you're in. And it depends on how you're positioning your brand and what's the why of your brand that you're selling, right? Nicholas spoke about the why of a brand and how I think Simon Sinek has beautifully brought that in a goal, you know, through his golden circle sort of philosophy. But yes, choose your emotion and choose it wisely. And choose an emotion that connects with your category, that connects with the consumer and connects with why you entered the business, right? And that's when it becomes truly powerful, right? That's when brand love starts strengthening year after year of staying connected with consumers. Perfect. Very well said. And quickly to you, Amit, first tell me what are the big emotional motivators that brands can use to connect with customers beyond numbers and sales? I think we have spoken a lot anyways regarding emotions also today. I think personally, the one that I really appreciate is the fact that if you're able to create that aspiration, whatever emotions that you have to use, I think beyond that, I also look at what kind of aspiration I have to create for the customer because I have worked across various categories. I mean, right from steel to real estate to now consumer electronics, I think very, very diverse, right? I mean, in real estate, it was all about fear, fear of losing out on the opportunity of a good price for the project, right? Today, it is about almost getting into the vanity emotions wherein I am not only selling a regular LED product, but I'm also selling smart LED products, which are actually talking to you. You're able to control these products with the help of an app or maybe with your voice assistant, right? So there's a lot of vanity also attached to these products. So I think it depends upon which category you are in and what exactly you want to create as an aspiration, I think. So I think that's where I'm studying, you know, so far across. Perfect. And the marketing myth, I want to understand from you, what has been the biggest marketing myth for you? Okay, so a marketing myth, I think there's a myth about marketers that, you know, they are not good with numbers or they fear sales. I think that is a myth about marketers. I don't get me to this because I think looking at what we have been doing in this country, I think, you know, because, you know, example, and that's been very candid, you know, if you go and generally talk about marketing, at least, I think 10 to 15 years back that, you know, you say, okay, you're into marketing. And people used to say, okay, so what do you sell? I think, you know, so that was the reaction. At least I used to get initially, you know, from people because, you know, they think that, you know, you can't sell things or maybe you're not good with numbers, like sector or you fear numbers. I think that's a classic myth about marketers at least today now, when we are dealing with so much of data. When you spoke that Hindi word, I can see Nicholas smiling. I know he understood it. Nicholas, you're quick on it. I'm assuming it was something like I was thinking about what I was told when I moved into marketing by my sales colleagues that you're moving into the coloring in department. I don't know if that was closely close to that. But it is, it was it was interesting to hear what you had to say about the past, how marketers were perceived. So what was the question back to me was there? So one is building that emotional, what are the big emotional motivators that brands can use to reach out to customers? And second, in your view, what has been the marketing myth? Oh, okay. Those are tough ones. I would defer to what was already shared about the emotion. I mean, you need to learn, it is very dependent on you answer it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Marketing myth. Oh, God, that's a hard one. It caught me off guard on that one. So myth, I don't actually, I don't have one that springs to mind if I'm honest at the moment. So I might pass on that one, actually. I think, again, we've had a really great conversation. I just want to say I've learned a lot from today's sessions. I want to thank my panelists. There was some really great insights and I look forward to hopefully meeting up with you guys in person at some point. I think the virtual, the physical, the live events may hopefully might, after the second vaccination, everyone is waiting for it. So we're all waiting for the second vaccine and million final thoughts from your side on building this emotional connect. What are the emotional motivators? Sorry, your audio. So I think two things. I think the emotional motivator has always been satiation of a need in a way and trust. I would pick up trust as another very critical area, whether it's an airline which promises you to deliver on time from one place to another transport, whether it's a payment gateway, which says I will ensure that no transaction fails, whether it's a biscuit, which says every time you eat me, the taste wouldn't change. Right. So I think the trust of the experience of that brand, I think is going to be one strong emotion. We have so far not used trust as a very strong emotion in most brands, but I think as time progresses, people will start differentiating on trust as a factor. Your second question on myth. One of the funniest things I have always been very intrigued and I have never been able to do it. When people come and told me, oh, you know what, I create viral videos. And I often wonder, how can anyone create viral video? I don't create viral video. Video becomes viral, right? Like collaboration, no one thought said, oh, I will create collaborative because I want it to be viral across millions and millions of users, right? It's just, it's something people pick up, right? So for me, creation of a viral video is the biggest marketing myth, which any marketer comes and tells me, agency comes and tells me, oh, my job is to create viral video. I said, thank you very much. But we are living in viral times actually metaphorically, but thank you so much for joining us today. It's been great. I wish we had more time, but we're overshot already. Thank you everyone for being there and sharing your valuable advice. Thank you. Thank you.