 Dr. Bjorn Dahl, hopefully I'm saying that right, it is great to have you here and as we were saying we've crossed paths at certain like integrative mental health conferences and stuff and I was so glad that you reached out and to get to know you better because gosh of all the times in our lives and worlds I think people really need tools and options for mental health especially I mean with the pandemic it's just it's I was joke it's been like the stressors to raise cortisol or novelty unpredictability threat to ego sense of control and we pretty much hit all of those so it's a perfect time to talk about mental health and I know that that people listening are going to be excited so before I introduce you just a little bit of housekeeping if you're listening you guys know I'm on here a couple times a week it'll be recorded so you can watch it later and if you haven't gone to my youtube channel it's under my name Jill Carnahan there are like over 40 videos there if you like these you can go watch those for free um dude would just love for you to subscribe there and get updates and um if you want to know more about me or free blogs you can go to my website at jillcarnahan.com or drjilhealth.com so I want to introduce my guest Dr Christina um she is an authority on the treatment of mental illness such as depression anxiety bipolar and eating disorders um having overcome many mental health challenges Dr Chris is a gifted speaker and best-selling author who loves to share her philosophy of wellness in interviews um she's done with Jenny McCarthy and many more and she's recognized as one of the top naturopathic doctors followed by two independent organizations Dr Chris has helped many patients achieve physical mental emotional and spiritual well-being and she's written four books on mental health you can find all of this information how to work with her um about her books on her website which is under her name Dr Christina Jorndal and it's uh dr Christina c-h-r-a-s-t-i-n-a b-j-o-r-n-d-a-l so welcome Dr Christina it is so good to have you here thank you thanks for having me it's great to be here you're welcome um I always like to start with story because story is kind of like why we got into doing what we're doing and of course you have your own story and I'm I love to hear more about your um journey yeah so I haven't always been a naturopathic doctor and really as just as you said I've I have come to become one because of my own struggles with my mental health and that really started in high school when I I ended up I developed an eating disorder and I also was this overachieving type and when I got to university I I found myself in this place that I'd never been before which was really uh stuck in and debilitated with depression and paralyzed by anxiety and I was you know in hindsight realized that I was burning in the candle at both ends and eventually when you do that you're gonna you're gonna run out of a candle or gas in the car so to speak so we didn't we weren't talking about burnout and that kind of thing back this is back in the mid 80s so I was prescribed an antidepressant which I took and a few months later I found myself in another place I'd never been before which was experiencing suicidal or sorry so I caught I had a psychotic episode a manic episode and and when I came out of that I was then diagnosed with bipolar disorder type one and I had a hard time accepting that diagnosis and so I pretty much didn't I pretty much wore this mask that I'm okay on the outside and sort of was marching through the world that way but not really doing well on the inside so a lot of turbulence and a lot of disconnect with what was happening with that within me but what I was projecting out into the world and I was ended up working and I was in the corporate world and and the struggle just got harder and harder and that wearing that mask got heavier and heavier and I did succumb to a suicide attempt which was really the turning point for me at that point when I came out of the coma and was in the position that I was in I realized I mean gosh I had to nowhere else to go at that point so I was given a book to read by Mary Ann Williamson on I was called a return to love there's a quote on surrender and in the quote she talks about that really we need to learn how to love and accept ourselves and that's what I realized I didn't and so that's been the journey since then that was a long time ago now that was 1994 so for those last 35 years I've really been working on figuring out how do I love and accept these parts of myself especially that diagnosis and how do I find the better ways to navigate other than just the psychotropic approach yeah so that's that's the journey in a nutshell so there's lots of pieces to unpack there but ultimately I've been through a lot and and the book that I've written is called beyond the label because I want people to understand that that's you know it really is it's really it's a label but and it can be helpful for sure but but we want to really understand what's happening within the person to have them express these love this set of symptoms that's happening within the vessel that is them I love that I knew I'd we get along just great because first of all I love your story in bringing awareness here we are two professional women and and I recently have been working on my book as well and writing about medical education experience and just I mean really it's abusive in some ways as far as the hours and the way and even that performance-based achieve I mean there's so many layers of it but the workload and the expectations and the putting on the mask and what I think that's important here we are again professionals but anyone listening can understand this so often we go out in the workplace or or as a mother or a wife we put on this mask we have it all together and the truth is we're all human and we all struggle and we all at different levels have these emotions this is what it is to be human and I love that you're bringing awareness and I want to do the same of we're all in this together and I've struggled too and I've had these you know but the journey is common to all humans and when we start to put a mask on them we are separating ourselves from the connection that can actually help to heal us exactly that's beautifully said exactly and you know I gosh I would have loved to have gone the medical doctor route mind you I went back to school when I was 33 to do the retraining actually to go back to high school to get the science prerequisites to go on to naturopathic school but I also felt like the the rigorousness of that with the sleep deprivation and the level of demands I wasn't sure that I would actually would actually be healthy it wouldn't be a healthy approach and so I opted not to do it that way but you were probably right because as I write about I'm like holy cow this was and I had like had to like I look back and I dissociated I suppressed some of it now I'm actually dealing with all that but I'm like wow that was really traumatic and that's like common it's not unique to me everybody most alipathic docs went through a lot of that and whether it was ours regulation or and the biggest thing that I that I was trying to write about was how especially as professionals or or if we're caring for patients I think that there's this idea that we have to come with all the answers and that we're all put perfectly put together and I've seen this in other circles too it's not just doctors and the truth is the more we are embracing our authentic humanity and our own failures and our own shortcomings and our own emotions the more we can actually really show up for the patients so what you've done is like dive into this journey find healing for yourself and I love going beyond the label because we're both taught to get a diagnosis and that's the end story so in icd 10 now a code that says you have celiac disease or you have depression or you have whatever label and that label is the end game and then you have a drug that treats that label well guess what like what we're going to go into today is the label is only the start and yes it gives us a framework to say you're kind of in this framework but it's not an identity it doesn't define you and the other piece about it is it's only for both of us where we what we do in medicine is why did that happen asking the questions and then trying to navigate how can we reverse that label that you've been given so talk to us a little bit about because I love that in your book and tell me more about what you go into in that because that makes a lot of sense to me yeah exactly so that it really is a framework and and one of the really the differentiating factors we want to keep in the forefront of our mind is we're more interested in you as an individual than we are in the disease that has you and and I and I get that it's important to understand about the disease piece the puzzle but not more so than the individual that has that you know particular label or condition so first really stepping back and to address that idea of why understanding that there's four levels to us as human beings there's the physical the mental the emotional and the spiritual and all four areas are important to take a look at now I started my my journey in this world of of towards this idea of healing on the physical level and at that time I was taking five psychotropic medications and then I went to see a nutritionally oriented psychiatrist his name was Dr. Abram Hoffer and he started yeah he's he's a very well known in in the in these nutritional world and uh yes yes and so he started me on many many supplements and and the interesting thing was I wasn't doing well when I went to see him I was quite depressed and I was still feeling a lot of anxiety and I carried both approaches along together at the same time and then I had my first year where I felt free of these these two pieces the depression and anxiety and was stable from the other they hadn't hadn't had a anything to do with mania for over a decade so I almost felt like what was that all about like is that you know uh was that just a one-off or is that ever going to happen again and and I hadn't had that stability that that I'd had in the 15 years prior and so I knew there was something to this approach but eventually I ended up bumping up against these other areas this this physical the the mental emotional spiritual side so just just to complete the physical conversation I just want people to understand that there's essentially three macro systems within the body this this body this container that is you so you have your neurotransmitters you have your neuroendocrine or your hormonal system then you have your organs of detoxification in your immune system and mental health symptoms can result in any one of those three if not all three of those and it was really telling for me when I started Dr. Hoffer's protocol I got better for half of the month and then I realized I mean I had no medical knowledge at that time but now in hindsight I realized oh gosh my hormones were really out of whack too and my organs of detoxification they certainly weren't working the way they needed to be so everything interacts with each other within a body but the the good news story here is once you work on one part it's like a ripple effect and other things start to come online and and improve for you so I don't you know just just know that it can be you can start where it feels comfortable comfortable for you but the key is we want to get started right I love that and I love that you talk about the hormones the neurotransmitters and all the interaction the detox and what I found I've done neurotransmitter work done hormone work done thyroid work all these pieces but sometimes you go deeper with the detox and then those things kind of balance out you know you can't necessarily ignore one or the other but I feel like the hormones and neurotransmitters can even be of a superficial level compared to the deep deeper detox work because when you get that working sometimes the hormones will start to regulate themselves how would you approach if if a patient came in depression anxiety maybe their own meds what would be your approach to that patient so first thing is one of the key questions is why right like we talked about or when when did this first you know when did this happen what was going on at that time is a lot of times it really is about this trauma or experience or situation that they're having a hard time navigating often on a on a on an emotional level so always wanting to know how severe they are whether they're in a crisis state you know making sure that we can you know have to give the right level of intervention for the degree or depth that they're experiencing and then working through starting with the foundation diet sleep exercise and then that stress management piece which I think is is really big so there's so many pieces with those first three diet sleep and exercise on just on that physical level on a lifestyle basis that can shift the dial for us but when we're not feeling great the first thing that goes often is the diet and the movement right we have such a hard time when we're depressed to get ourselves going because that's lack of motivation right because you need to move and we know like activity is so profoundly antidepressant and good food but you're stuck in that I would say it's almost like they you're in this pit and you need someone to help you pull yourself out so there does need you know whether it's community or a doctor or someone like you what would you say to someone if and I want to go back to the basics too but the people who are either listening now or have experiences where you're stuck in that place if you feel like you can't get out of bed or you can't where's the starting place to get yourself just enough out of that so you can start doing what you need to do yeah the first place really is to if you're and so on a first I'll just start off and hopefully this may help people who are listening that listen there's been times when it's taken me two four six sometimes 10 hours just to move from the bed to the door or getting dressed to the door putting the shoes on and heading out but never once did I ever come back feeling worse than when I went out so it's really a matter of leaning in if you can and digging really deep and shifting within you this this I can't to this I can or I will or I want mindset yes and and I get it I get it it's hard it is hard so to make it easier what I've done recently is I have an accountability person who calls me and that phone rings and and I'm not allowed to say I can't do it today I love it I'm kind of on the hook in a sense I know that's not always easy for everyone but it is something that people don't think about doing so find somebody that you can perhaps reach out to or ask or the other part is when you're feeling this way it really is like asking a deaf person to hear asking a depressed person to reach out is is really hard it's like we physically are yes cut off at the arms so this is where the support piece is really really important so if there is someone in your life a husband you know a partner a friend a colleague somebody a parent that that knows you and knows if you can if you have just enough within you to to raise your hand and say actually I do need some help because we are so busy wearing the mask yeah is it anything today if you're listening like I just want to speak to you who's listening and maybe the someone this is resonating because this is winter at least here in Colorado yeah and it's darker so you have the seasonal peace the lack of sunshine for some people and if you're listening and you feel just that step of telling someone because what Dr. Christina and I were both talking about in the beginning is part of what kept us in trouble in training or in our past was feeling like we had to have it all together and we had to put on a mask we had to pretend like everything was okay and then we're literally sitting here as professionals giving you permission that it's okay to not be okay like if that's all you hear today it's okay to not be okay and it's okay to be struggling all you have to do is tell somebody that's right and there's so much power in that there really is so and a lot of relief can come from that because it's heavy holding up this weight it is heavy and and I guess that is the message just to echo what you said that you actually don't need to hold it up anymore yeah yeah we're that's what we're here for each other is like that I think if anything this next decade people are going through transitions all of us are going through our own journey but I think we're going deeper than we ever had to go in some cases and the biggest thing is how do we show it more authentically which can be sometimes showing up when we're falling apart so then so you're looking at hormones and neurotransmitters and yeah what else would you do with a person who's again getting out of bed is huge getting some accountability love those basic steps what else well the other piece then with coming back to the diet piece and I know a lot of people think oh diet you know insert eye roll kind of thing but it you know it's really important because for me anyway when I'm depressed I'm not eating in fact I had one pastor once who said to me asked me if I had an eating disorder which you know I'd had in the past but I said no this is this is depression like I don't eat and and so if you think about it what is you know how's your brain going to run how's your brain going to make neurotransmitters and hormones if you're not eating much you don't you need fuel for the body and understand that serotonin which is the main neurotransmitter that often is discussed when it comes to depression is derived from an essential amino acid which is called tryptophan which you cannot physically make on your own you have to get it from your diet and a really eye-opening piece for me was when I went to second-year nutrition class we had to analyze our diets as an assignment now I had gotten better because I was started this supplement protocol that was supporting this pathway in my body this tryptophan serotonin pathway but when I analyzed my diet and remember I'd had an eating disorder so I'd had a lot of cracks in my nutritional foundation the only essential amino acid I was deficient in still was tryptophan wow really eye-opening for me so this other little book that I've created is called the essential diet eating for mental health so understand that there's essential nutrients and for many for these neurotransmitters and hormones dopamine's another one a really important neurotransmitter when it comes to addiction so the key that I point I'm trying to make is we want to fuel your body with something that's healthful and again I know it's hard when we're not feeling great to to to do some of these things that I'm asking you to dig deep to do but again the support piece is where this can also help you be successful so just know that the food piece of the puzzle is really is a really big huge piece so I love that image and sleep let's talk a little bit about sleep because a lot of times that's one of the whether you have anxiety and you can't sleep or you're sleeping you know 15 16 hours a day how would you address the sleep issues because I feel like that's such a core eating and sleeping are really really core before even going to nutrition and our nutrients are like actual supplementation yeah so what would you talk about sleep yeah so on sort of different ends of the spectrum so with depression it can be either with depression some people are sleeping too much and some people are not are sleeping you know they're kind of more wired and with the anxiety piece there and they're not sleeping as well and then the whole if we go to the other end of the spectrum with mania you know people aren't sleeping at all but I'm going to keep it more within the normal piece of the puzzle here and so sleep and and exercise feed on each other and and so oftentimes again if you're not sort of burning any energy you're not going to feel tired so that's where that movement piece and the fresh air and and getting some vitamin D these all sort of help support sleep and what often is is affecting people's sleep is stress and this understanding about the the rhythm in the body with the two main hormones that can affect sleep which are is cortisol and melatonin so cortisol has an inverse relationship with melatonin and it inhibits it so the hours that you spend before bed need to be calming and supportive towards sleep so this isn't when we want to have the big discussions with our partner or this isn't when we want to watch a violent or get on video games and play really sort of adrenaline boosting stimulating we want to be calm as we can in those hours before bed and really understanding that the adrenal glands which is an important gland in the body that has a relationship with cortisol and it produces cortisol as a hormonal serves a hormonal function they really like rhythm and routine so going to bed at the same time and getting up at the same time eating at the same time exercising at the same time I know again we're not to be robots and so structured and rigid that you know there is a flexibility and fluidity within that but just this idea of routine is is a really important piece to our health too so the other thing I want to say about sleep is is the state of mind you're in when you go to sleep so I have spent decades in depression and I can share with you that I would go to bed every night literally asking for myself to not wake up in the morning right but that's not a great way no to head off that you're to start to finish your day and then I would wake up in the morning obviously as I'm still here I'd wake up in the morning and I'd open my eyes and I would be I would be starting mad almost like oh god not another day so how do you imagine my day went not very good right not very good found so first one go ahead keep yeah I just want to finish it so now the shift and what I'd like people to do if this is a simple place for you to start is just going to bed with gratitude for one thing even there's a lot of neuroplastic research around gratitude alone and now I go to bed at night grateful for the day that I've had opening my eyes in the morning grateful that I have another day to serve yeah huge shift huge shift night and day and so that's all yeah what you're talking about is so critical though people might just blow right by this mindset and I'm not saying that when you're struggling you're in that pit and you need help with a friend that we can like you still it's okay to ask for help it's not like we're saying just a positive attitude is the only the only thing you need that's that's not it but this is critical and I love that you're talking about this because first of all routines I feel like my secret superpower is I'm routine and I have a nightly ritual and sleep is my superpower I literally like that is my superpower for performance and so I protect that like if there's a late night of some event I mean once in a rare while I might do it of course COVID is different right now with all that but before I would often say no because I knew that was so precious to have that sleep in that time and it would be rare that I break that because my performance was based on my mood performance and and everything energy was based on great sleep so for me everybody's different but I found that an hour or two before bed I don't get on the computer I take a nightly every night epsom salt bath with usually lavender or eucalyptus oil and with that bath I'll do something either read a book or listen to a podcast something that for me is like a or just music something that's calming sometimes I'll read scripture or some sort of meditation but something that fills my heart with like you said love and gratitude we know the heart coherence which is when your heart is in a state of gratitude or love that's profoundly healing and helpful and like you said what you were just describing before was probably the non-coherence going to bed and waking up and then now you're in coherence and that actually makes a big difference there's apps you can do like heart math there's a lot of different heart rate variability types of things which get your heart into this rhythm but if you don't even have an app all it takes is really feeling the deep love and gratitude and I think this goes into I want you to comment on this but I heard you earlier say something so important I grew up in a very state I had a very short period in high school where I had an eating disorder as well but those things come from either lack of control or self-loathing there's these pieces of like not loving or stuff and I heard you say something earlier that I want to talk about and I literally wanted the thing this tramps for my health is in the evening I literally will hold my heart and say thank you heart for beating another day thank you cells for giving me life and breath and like so much love for my body who was performed day after day after day for 40 plus years and kept me breathing and alive and just like this but I never used to be that way I never used to have that deep abiding love and gratitude for my own cells in my body that's kept me alive and kept me thriving and it has transformed my health I mean I saw labs change because of that practice so talk just a little bit about the importance of actually caring for ourselves and loving ourselves instead of punishing ourselves and loathing ourselves because that's a big part of this so I think it's not it's I think it is the most well it is a big part of it and you know a key question that I ask everybody is on a scale of 1 to 10 you know how do you love yourself how much do you love yourself your sense of self-esteem your yourself worth and the problem is that women often were not reared to you know it's almost like oh that's don't be don't be too boastful don't be too much don't be too this don't be too that and it's not what I'm talking from this you know just deep sense of gratitude for the gift that you are as a human being and most patients that I work with do not have a high number to that question and so to me and nor did I nor did I gosh anyone who's trying to to not be here anymore is obviously not loving and accepting who they are and I so really for me if you know when we talk about the root cause right a lot with with functional medicine naturopathic medicine we're wanting to figure out what's the root of this and there can be more than one root could be more than one thing going on but for me I think a really important piece is I am adopted and so that in utero experience has informed my the the wireings in the brain and just the way that I perceive and have perceived the world from learning that I was adopted and and and so forth hence this overachieving piece to compensate for this sense of lack that I felt within this not worthy piece because of the faulty belief that I wasn't wanted so it you know the heart I often feel like we're talking about the wrong organ even in mental health everyone's focused on the brain and and don't get me wrong I of course that's a piece of it but what about the heart yes right and I sound I share with patients that you know oftentimes I feel many of my depression depressive episodes have been this battle if you will between these two sides of myself the the ego or the mind that wants to go left and the heart of the soul the spirit that wants to go right and I don't know which master to listen to and so I get I literally I'm paralyzed paralyzed yeah yeah and you know Christiane Northrop talks about how the electrical activity in the heart is I think it was 50 times more than the electrical activity in the brain yeah and another P I could talk about this probably for another hour but the other piece I'll just mention before we you know we want to move on is that in and my husband's first nation so in in in Canada their you know first nation healers talk about that the journey from the mind to the heart is a very short distance yeah right but for some it takes a lifetime to walk I love this this is so important for people to hear because again I feel like some of my biggest transformation I was very analytical background science engineering and I would always try to try to make sense here when I started to drop down and feel and make decisions from this more intuitive heart base center it was so much more powerful in the intelligence that came because again I always say our analytical mind might be able to analyze 100 pieces of data very quickly but our heart intuitive level we can take a million pieces of data the subconscious can take that in in a second and actually make a very good science based of a decision so that is so critical to really feel that and to feel that you are loved and you know I see patients of all backgrounds I know that I love that you talk about the spiritual I'm Judeo Christian background one thing that's helped me is like I'm a daughter of the king and it's relevant to even you as a like I just literally like and again so that may not resonate for you listening but if it does for me it's actually helped me like it's not about ego it's about who's am I and my identity is a bigger divine who like I am a daughter of the king in that sense and so that gives me like and and again if you've been adopted or otherwise it's like we're wanted we're chosen we have a purpose and like finding a place for you within your belief system of purpose that's greater than yourself something to connect to that's greater than yourself something that's guiding you that's deeper like these things are really important very very important and there's a quote by Joseph Campbell that I really love to to share which is the heart must usher the mind into the zone of revelation so by that we mean we want to learn how to lead from a heart-centered place so and then let the mind figure out all the 50 million ways to analyze the data but most people are doing it the other way around they're leading from the mind and then the mind often gets stuck in fear and then the ego gets involved and then we get run by the Imangula and then we get stuck in these sort of four states you know fight fight freezer fawn and we kind of don't know where to go and and we get stuck in analysis mode and but if you can learn to drop in yes drop in and out of the head and into the body and listen to listen to the beat listen to like I often say listen how are you going to hear the voice of god if you're always talking I love that I'm gonna hear the messages because you're like blah blah blah blah do this give me this right right right so so this what I'm leading into here is this concept of stillness love love a couple years ago one of my off staff gave me a little thing for Christmas that said be still and I was one of those people who didn't stop moving right but honestly what I realized that's a trauma-based response because when you when I first started to stop moving it was terrifying because I had to deal with myself and then as I got used to it and dealt with those emotions now I can sit for hours and be comfortable and and hear a much deeper sense of truth but I remember the days when I couldn't sit still and I'll tell you if you're out there and you're busy busy busy you can't sit still there's probably trauma that we need to work on absolutely yeah I mean the healing really truly is in the feeling and I layered myself up with a lot of armor right a lot of again busyness in in busyness in doing and busyness in awards and you know all these ego minded things but very empty on the inside never satisfied you know you'd win one thing or achieve something and then not even pausing to enjoy it just onto the next and and our society is very driven by this concept of I'll use the word status but it's not it's it's really driving us in the wrong direction actually and what we need as human as the human family is connection and community and love and respect for the other and whenever you're pointing the finger at someone there's three pointing back at you so this idea of whatever we don't like in another is something perhaps that we're unwilling to acknowledge or look at within ourselves but it's there but it's more like the dark side of the shadow side but it's it's just more love is what's going to heal us not the other and so anyways I know it's difficult and hard when hurt people hurt people because you because they're hurt people and if you're sitting there they're being a hurt person it's hard yeah it's really hard to rise above like you know people suggest and and so anyways I know this is these are tall orders and but I guess the main thing is is if you don't love who you are and that's what we've got to look at why yeah exactly going to that I taught you that you won't right right and I've heard the commonalities to all humanity is feeling unworthy unlovable or helpless like there's nothing new under the sun there's nothing new we're not different we're not alone we're not unique we all have these common fears and some you know as we work through those and find out we are lovable we are worthy we're not helpless but those are the common things so if you're out there probably one of those three is at the base of some of the fears and the things that we are talking about let's shift in the last short bit here about and we talked about diet and sleep we talked about a lot about spiritual and connection and all of this so two things one one is we're getting out of a pandemic and we've been isolated a lot of us and to me that's just so sad because well I don't think that it was wrong to try to take precautions I also feel like isolation has been ignored as a cause of stress high cortisol and immune dysfunction like this is a big deal oxytocin is made it comes with hugging and touching and we're not having as much of that so any suggestions of how to stay connected number one so I'll let you answer that and then in a few minutes if there's any like basic nutritional supplements we don't give medical advice but some of the basic things that you might start with with someone who's suffering from depression or anxiety so that gosh I mean it's really it's really been a year right and and I don't think anyone expected it to be going on this long so definitely take precautions and but there's I think there's more that we could be doing and simply just washing our hands and wearing a mask and I and I think about the diversity of the gut microbiome and how important these things are and I I do I won't go down that path too far because that wasn't your question so how do we create community and connection in a time of when we're told to isolate and that's difficult but I think the best suggestions that I have been doing for my own self is maintaining because listen nature's open 24-7 yes nature you know this this earth's playground is always open so get out there and socially distance with your friend colleague you know again whoever it whoever it may be you can have your pods right like I have a lot of a few friends that I connect with and those are you know and that's yeah and you have to be doing that we have to be doing that we have to be making regular dates and and I hesitate to say meeting up like this on zoom because it but I but I also think it's important like I feel better like you know I see your beautiful face and I just feel the energy and so it's like it it's better than sitting by yourself alone um it so set those dates up as as much as you may be grudge technology what have you embraced it learn this is a time to learn to embrace some of these things and so I think that you just have to work within the parameters that may be in your specific area but isolation doesn't have to mean that you're completely cut off yeah like that's not what it they're saying so just not meeting big groups and keeping it to one fourth you know one within your pod and pets are another great yes great piece they don't I don't hear you know pets they're very loving and so get a pet friend if you don't already have one or borrow your neighbor's dog if you have to but there's a lot of research just around pet pet this concept of absolutely that love that unconditional love I think they show I have two dogs they're actually sitting right down here yeah I heard a bark a minute ago but um but yeah it's such a I always joke I would have needed a lot more therapy if I didn't have my two puppies because they're so like they they show us how to love unconditionally like there's just um so what about basics again we won't make recommendations but you mentioned trip to fan five another one what are some of the things that nutrient-wise we could do to support um depression or anxiety yeah so the biggest thing so just speaking broadly in terms of diet let's focus a little bit more on like if hopefully not offending any vegans or vegetarians but just if you're eating a regular diet then shifting the emphasis with your plate increasing 50 percent making sure 50 percent is vegetables and then you're having the protein and a little bit of a complex car let's get them out of your diet as much of the white products as we can you know the pops that those things you know eat drinking herbal teas water in terms of supplementation this is where it's you know it's helpful to work with somebody I don't believe in supplementing yourself completely out of something but there are some foundational supplements that I think everyone should be taking so vitamin D is one of them omega threes is another one a healthy probiotic when you you don't take the same probiotic forever but supporting your gut really important for the immune system but also the brain there's a huge gut brain relationship I I forgot to tell you that which is an important piece of this whole puzzle that I did a year of antibiotics prior to developing the eating disorder we didn't learn about this research or connection until many many years later so huge gut brain relationship so and then B vitamins are extremely important to make this tryptophan pathway work I don't usually I usually always want everyone to eat tryptophan forming foods not take tryptophan because there's another pathway tryptophan can go down which we won't get into the scientific of it but just understand five htp magnesium also very important different forms of magnesium that is bisnate form better for anxiety and depression so so you know we've just rattled off these four or five things nutrients that are are really important always remember the diet piece but it's it's difficult sometimes the farther down you are that you know that pit we talked about to just take you know just to eat an orange that's not going to cut it right you're going to need a little bit more fuel to get your your plane off the ground get you to cruising altitude get you feeling better then we can pull back once you're feeling better but sometimes you need more fuel i.e more supplements more support at the beginning so love what you're saying about food first you need adequate protein and you can take if you're struggling with malabsorption or some issue you can take amino acids as free form although i still prefer food that can be helpful for some people and i like the full amino acids versus just a branch chain because you're only going to get this like bodybuilding thing versus the full amino spectrum is a lot better for brain health gut i love that you mentioned that because i used to get college kids that like i'm suffering from depression or anxiety and say well we're going to do a stool test and they kind of look at me like you know stool test why do it but what we talk about very quickly was your gut microbiome has everything to do with your brain and like you said we could do a whole another hour on the pathways in the gut and some of these abnormal pathways that cause inflammation or abnormal chemicals that cause depression anxiety etc things that you've probably tried if you're listening out there a GABA can be very helpful for anxiety the anine is from green tea you can also take it as a supplement very helpful five hgp tryptophan are precursors of serotonin there's a small percentage of people that have this weird pathway that won't do well on those but many people do tyrosine can make more dopamine so that's an easy amino acid and again this is with your doctor you want to look at dosing and stuff but there's the really neat things there's a lot of amino acids that we can push different pathways by giving them selectively and then what you mentioned earlier a cortisol can be too high or too low and it can be either way to present with depression or anxiety so looking at your with your doctor your hormone levels your cortisol levels all of those things can be helpful we're just about out of time so tell us first of all any last bits of words of wisdom if people are listening and they're struggling you've given some great advice any last parting words of wisdom here yeah I just the last thing I do what I mentioned is so now I'm 54 and or will be too fast down the road here and so menopause is also an important time when things can shift and that's hormones so just meant you know Dr. Jill was just recapping about hormones but just also remember not only thyroid but you know in cortisol but estrogen progesterone do you see those are other important ones too so the last thing really I just want to say is if you're listening and you know somebody who's struggling please reach out and keep reaching out don't take it personally if somebody you reach out once and they didn't call you back sometimes you have to call 10 times or actually go and knock on the door right and if you're somebody who's listening and you are struggling I really hope that I one of the reasons the main reason the only reason I share my story is to give you hope that this is a journey and there is solutions to what you're going through you do not have to stay where you are and as you learn to navigate these four big areas the physical mental emotional spiritual you will move into a into a better place of wellness so that's my hope for you and and that's I just think there's too many people suffering and struggling and it's just mental health was already a problem before this pandemic around the virus you know it's and it's only I think getting going to deepen deepen the divide in the mental health problem that was already there I couldn't agree more it's like revealing for me it's um not for me but for all of us really there is if we have a greater purpose a greater source and we've done some of the work and we're all in the process so I don't mean to sound like I'm any further ahead than any of you listening because I'm in there just with you but um as we find that deeper meaning a purpose the waves of life can come and the struggles and the difficulties and they're going to come I always say you're either in the midst of a crisis or about to go through one or you've just gone through one it's just one one of those three it's either coming or you've just been through it or you're in the unit so you can't expect that it's going to be easy all the time but if you have some sort of a purpose you have this deep abiding love and some sort of a connection to the divine and a greater purpose those things can really take you through because you have like an anchor you have something that keeps you stable in the midst of the storms of life and for me that's that's what I found to be the most important because life will bring storms period it's inevitable it's life changes inevitable but if we have something that grounds us or anchors us that can be core so where can people find we talked about your website but repeat it again in your books if people want to find out more about you or read what you've written give us the resources and I'll be sure and add the links to yeah sure so um yeah just and let just say just understand that you don't have to be at the mercy of your mind right you can learn to manage it and uh so dr so dr christina beyond all dot com bj or ndal i have the beyond the label which is a i think a really great book that guides you through these 10 steps that we we that i think that i've that i've walked through to regain my mental health so that's a great book there's the essential diet there's a journal and then a book that i've co-authored called from shadows to light a whole human approach to mental health i have created an online program as well that goes a little bit deeper into each of the 10 steps so that's an option for people to check out and those are the main things you know the usual social media channels i i'm i do my best to be there i'm thankful for people like you who are further down than me that know how to do more than oh i don't know we're in it together but i'll be sure and share this too if you want to follow um dr bjornal and i um and uh if you i haven't been a part of uh well again check out her program check out her books you have your website i will put the link down below and if you aren't part of my newsletter often i'll share these kind of interviews and things too you can go to my website jillcarnian.com and sign up for that well dr bjornal it has been just a pleasure and the time went way too quickly it was like oh gosh yeah i know thank you so much for joining me today i look forward to talking to you again soon okay yes god bless you all thank you so much