 At 504, I am going to call our special board of finance meeting to order. The first agenda on the first item on the agenda is the agenda. Do we have a motion please. Thank you. Thank you, Councilor Barlow. And all in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed. And the motion carries unanimously. The next item is a public forum. Are there any members of the public wishing to speak to the board of finance today? Being none, we will close the public forum. And move on to item 3.1 replacement of the hot water system and boiler at Letty. Kim, why don't you give us a brief overview? Sure. So, I will try to be brief here, but please ask questions if you have any. It's a really interesting project. So, back in March, we put out an RFP to start working with an energy performance contractor. And I don't know if you are familiar with this, but in very short term, what that means is that we will be moving forward to get all of our city buildings, either to net zero energy or as close to net zero energy as we can. And what they'll help us do is make the best game plan to arrive there in an efficient way. And dealing with the costs that we can actually afford. So we'll be looking at different ways of doing things. And they've helped us with the remote sump tank in this building, which we talked about last week. And then the next project that we're also moving forward on, which is similar to the sump tank project is replacing the domestic hot water system at Letty arena, and also at the same time, their boiler system. So this project, like the one that we talked about last week is just a very small part of the actual project at Letty, but it's something that was imminent that if we don't get this done. They're not going to have any hot water there this winter, which is problematic for a lot of reasons. So, what we've looked at doing is we've looked at upgrading this system with both an all electric system and a 96% efficient gas natural gas system for a lot of reasons to include timelines and cost. We decided to go forward with the natural gas system. It's a 96% efficient system. It has redundancy. It can have controls added to it. It's included within all of the design and engineering for this project. Not only does it include the new system, but it includes upgrading the piping, all the expansion tanks. It includes filling in the holes of the exterior building where we're letting in cold and hot air. Which most of us know is like the number one thing you should see in a building. Is to upgrade these and have our control system put on them also just like we do in a lot of our other buildings so that we can constantly regulate temperatures of the water and the air, and keep that as energy as efficient as possible. So, what we're doing here today is asking your approval to move this forward to have this done and the materials that we have in the system are available. That we can have it all installed before the winter comes. Great. Thank you. Any questions from the board or someone ready to make a motion. Yes. Yes, I had questions about the funding. It seems like we're taking funding that had been allocated to our project and reallocating it. You're right. I think that happened recently or was that already anticipated during sort of budgeting process. So, it was not necessarily anticipated during the budgeting process so what we had anticipated was you. You put in two new rooftop units at the Miller Center per year, just to keep up with things and make sure that there was, there were no systems going towards the end of life. But we came up with a couple things one is that with our HVAC team the way we have it now. They're very knowledgeable and they've been servicing them very regularly and doing a great job of it. So, we want to use rooftop units at the Miller Center are in great shape compared to a lot of things in the city. So, just going to add in that, you know, as things pop up though you have to look at everything. Right. And that's where, you know, while that was on the list to get done something like this pops up you have to look at your full list to be like, okay, I was going to make this. So, we decided that because they're working so well, and because we actually rather make a better decision for the city, that we should use that money towards this emergency project so that we could be able to do that. So, we decided that we could actually convert those rooftop units into all electric rooftop units as opposed to staying with natural gases they were. We actually rather make a better decision for the city, but we should use that money towards this emergency project so that we can happen. Okay. My next question, which you also addressed is, when I was on the school board we had a lot of different maintenance and we'd be, you know, trying to triage different projects and when you end up with it. At the end of that or what the school does could be a huge giant deferred maintenance. We have a huge giant deferred maintenance problem so just to know that we have one. Right. And so, but luckily, unfortunately whatever the word would be is comes out the hell no, we've never had central facilities. We never had anybody overseeing central facilities at that level and so now that was a decision when you guys approved Kim's position. All out is now to have somebody who's focusing on that we have to each track people when I'm home think it was some point last year got regraded to a higher level to, so we have that expertise to look at the systems and so that in the long run. What we're changing and doing now rain great shape that that means there's still a backlog of work here in the city and those guys are, you know, saying a lot. And I would just add that this is part of why I spend a lot of time with Cindy and Kim is that I'm on the capital committee and so we're not just to be clear as much as I think Cindy and Kim would make the right decision. This is not just like those two saying we don't need this we do need this. All of these decisions are discussed in the capital committee which is, you know, very multi departmental team including Ashley fire safety. City arts and plenty of others. So, there's going to be I think a lot of this kind of horse trading of we were going to do this but now this is broken and so we'll talk those things out with you because obviously, as financial stewards of the city, you have an important right here as well. Thank you to my only my only question but thank you. Sure. Any other questions. I have a couple of things and I think the first one is one thing we get on the time as part of this budget process is to get regular updates grants updates. So the reason we have that from FY 23 is because we started having problems with the hot water domestic system several years ago, and we knew it was something that we had to address so I have that banked away to start working on hot water system. So that's why we saved it for that. And now the second question is specific to the 96% for versus 100% yes, I was just wondering what would be the price difference. Well, that's a great question. So, how you would get to 100% efficient on a natural gas system and absolutely get it on. It would involve working with bgs and buying renewable energy credits to make up that 4% which we can absolutely do. So it's possible. Absolutely. And just to kind of reiterate is that this is just a tiny, tiny part of the project of the building. And by doing it this way, this will fit in with the next upgrades that we do as the whole building to keep it energy efficient. So when we look at it, we're going to look at, should it be all electric should be part electric should be all natural gas. Why would we go to that decision. How is it going to be the best case for the city, and make the best decision that we can based on that information and cost. Yes, we did. And also, you know, what is there for the specific building is not being used by the people across the region. Yes. And I was just wondering also, if there is an opportunity to increase the fees of accessing the facilities in order to. Because this is only more than half a billion dollars. And what's next. Cindy, you might be able to get to that. Yeah, so we just, I mean, we continue to increase the fees and we increase the fees again this upcoming year, but that support in general fun. I mean, there's not that we're not trying to cover the cost, the direct cost of maintaining the building. But there's very little that we're able to do here in the city that is able to generate the additional revenue or capital. Whether or not down the line we should. That's, you know, another. We should and it's a whole other ball of wax. But to say that it is something that the Capital Committee, it keeps coming up in all these meetings. And so it's something on our mind, which is, you know, can we get to a place in the next year or two that when we're saying, here's the project we'd like to do. We've also built in these costs for repair and maintenance down the line. Like, we're not there, but to do more of that building in so that we don't wind up adding to the deficit of work that needs to be done. You know, that's a big one that like, let's say the waterfront, the campground, those those are that's making that revenue that money does not go into a capital that goes into the general fund. And so there's, you know, that's should those should those have been years past enterprise funds so you could put that money back into those places, you know, the campgrounds getting tired green is getting tired. But we, we did and now to do it now would be a big impact on the general fund. It's a challenge. Very glad to hear that you're thinking of it and knowing that people are really starting to shake. Yes, that's still a high school. Yes. Yeah, that's great. But I'm happy to make the motion that's indicated on. You did it. I was thinking I was going to chirp you out. I've only done that a few times. Thank you, counselor Jen, do we have a second. Second. Thank you, President Paul, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed. And the motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Thank you. I also would like to point out that the phone number who has just joined is there. So, we are at item 3.2. Chief Murat indicated he was on his way here and he is not here yet. So, if you would like to. Mayor, maybe you could weigh in and let us know if you would like to kick this off. Or if you'd like a brief five minute recess. And to wait for. John to get here. And maybe there we go. Oh, there we go. I'm trying to figure out how to unmute. Sorry about that. I figured it out. Sure. So how did John give you a sense? When are you going to get there? Um, I thought he was going to be here already. So, um, let me just. See what's going on here. I'm happy to just start thinking. Yep. I think that might be wise. All right. So this is a significant milestone in the. Sorry, Mayor. You just got here. So you can stop. It's okay. Wherever you want to achieve this fine. Um, the mayor is joining on the phone and he was just about to start when you got here in the nick of time. I'm going to keep talking for 10 seconds. So you like sit down and get yourself settled. And then when you do, you can just give us a brief overview of item 3.2, please. Okay. Okay. Um, which is the cares team. Yes. Wonderful. So I'm settled. Did you want me to jump in or jump in? Okay. No questions yet. Sure. Um, so obviously, you know, this has been a long, uh, process. We wanted to move forward with some working a lot at it. We've had, I think some productive meetings over the past, uh, couple of weeks. We've had a lot of discussions with the hospital and length about sort of how we make this work. Um, and we have a couple of pressure points right now. One is DMH, which, uh, the Vermont department of mental health, uh, which has given us a grant, uh, that's federal money and they need to see it spent. So we need to make some, uh, some yardage as it were and get this ball down the field a bit. Um, we have come to the realization that an EMT or an EMT, it's not the way to go, nor is a paramedic. They have too many protocols in their, uh, uh, in their own protocols. There are too many protocols that prevent them from, uh, deferring, uh, healthcare away from the hospital. And that is a good component of what this, uh, team is going to do. It's also a significant component of why we were awarded the grant from the department of mental health to move, uh, treatment away from the hospital and cease overburdening the emergency department. Uh, as a result, uh, EMTs and paramedics are not the best for that because their basic mode of operation is to get people up to that hospital. And so instead we believe that working with RNs, with registered nurses is going to be the best course of action, particularly home healthcare nurses potentially. Uh, and we're working with the hospital to make that happen. The hospital has agreed to, uh, cost share. Uh, we're working out what that exactly is going to look like. Um, but, uh, with the, the money, the city has allocated with the money that the DM, the DMH has provided via the federal grant. Um, we're confident we can make this work. We need now to put forward the job descriptions for the clinician and for the team's supervisor who is also a clinician. Um, and so those two clinicians and that supervisor clinician will be employees of the city of Burlington. Uh, the, uh, nurses, uh, the medical half of this team. Will in all likelihood be co-employees of the city and of the hospital. Um, again, I probably should have started with this. The, the, the point of the program is to have clinicians co-deploying with medical professionals. Uh, what we've learned, however, is that the medical professionals will, will not be paramedics as initially assumed, but are better suited as RNs or registered nurses. And I don't know, Mr. Mayor, if you want to add anything to that or. Sir, I mean, I just think, uh, this is a pretty significant milestone. Chief was saying in this substantial journey to get this new capacity stood up. We are nearing an agreement with the hospital on the details of how this will work. We don't have that completely. Uh, that is not complete yet, but we think. But it is prudent and helpful to getting this team stood up as quickly as possible for the council to approve the creation of these three positions tonight. It's about, you know, it's a multi month process from the moment that we post these positions, which we can't do until the council creates them. It's, you know, it's, it's. Three months. Generally speaking, before a new position can be filled in those three months, um, we are pretty optimistic. We can nail down the remaining questions, uh, with how, how, how the city and the hospital work together with this new capacity. And we finalize, um, the, uh, remaining budget with issues. I think it's news to this group that, um, we, uh, will get some kind of financial commitment from the hospital. In addition to the state, uh, funding, it appears very likely that details of that are to be nailed down. Um, and I think that all that together puts us in striking distance of, um, you know, resolving any remaining budget questions about how we do this. So all in all, this is step forward. It's good news. I appreciate the, the team led by the chief and Jackie Corvall and Lacey Smith. Um, that has us on the cusp of, uh, of operationalizing this. And I think we'll be back, um, towards the end of the summer, um, with a further update on exactly what to look for in terms of, uh, turning on the on switch with this new team. Great. Great. Thank you, mayor. Um, I'll open it up for questions. Counselor Jeff. Was that a question or a. Yeah. Okay. Right. Yeah. I mean, um, I think from my perspective, the care. According to the crisis assessment response. Right. And from my perspective, we are, we are, we are tackling it. Without any, let's say community involved. Um, It seems also allocated $400,000 street. It seems only these positions are over half a million dollars. I would like to understand how much like ambition, this can team costs. Right. Because this is just a couple of positions here. Well, so, uh, I think that, you know, our our budgeting is, uh, is preliminary. Um, uh, but we have. gone over the pieces, you know, personnel as with any program like this is the bulk of that cost. That personnel is the supervisor on call money for the supervisor, the two clinicians, and then the two registered nurses and the registered nurses we hope to have them shared to some extent with the hospital to be determined. But when you look at the totality of that cost that personnel cost is in the realm of about $650,000 per year. Now, the for five positions five positions and that's with fringe, but that's with benefits and everything so salary and benefits around $650,000 startup costs in year one are going to be greater than in year two, we're going to need technology we're going to need equipment. And we're going to need a vehicle in which they can move. One thing that I have not factored in is that we have space in one North Avenue for this we do we're going to have to incur capital construction costs in reconfiguring parts of the building. And that's coming to us, irrespective of the scene, we have to create, we've carved a corner of what North Avenue out for Cape. And Burlington cares will sit within Cape, but that carving still needs more work to be done, we have to move right now. There's a space that is being used by the CSOs that needs to move over to a different part of the building, so that Cape can actually expand into the CSO space but the CSOs can still have space. So there's interior reconfiguration work that needs to be done that's not built into this budget, but it is going to be something we're going to have to tackle. In order to have these folks once we hire them having a place to sit, but the overall costs, you know, once you add in the startup costs, it's about somewhere in the vicinity of 850 or a little bit more for year one and somewhere in the vicinity of 900 or a little bit more for year year two, but the DMH grant covers almost half of that, not quite. The city has allocated monies in year one and year two. And, you know, so that's, that's basically the cost of 800 plus eight, I'm sorry, 870 or so for year one. And why not this position be house. The fire department doesn't have, fire department has less space than the police department does, has greater issues right now with actually integrating that space than the police department does. We expect for this team to be, you know, gender is going to be, isn't an issue for the police department, it is for the fire department at the moment in places. The physical space is the big issue and then, secondarily, I think the issue is that the call these calls for service come through police dispatch. I mean, I will be supporting this, but I really hope that we had a different approach about the care model from my perspective is just coming from up to down and no involvement from the community, no, you know, no task force, no experts. And from it's important and this is also very respectful. Right. I'm not trying to, but I agree with that can be different understanding, creating this position, having a supervisor who will respond to the queue, and also where to help this to house the care model. So he said, but I'm supporting this position. So if I may, there was quite a bit of community involvement in the earliest stages of this a lot with stakeholders, including members of the city council and including public members of the public who have lived experience with regard to the kinds of things that we expect cares to do. And since then, there, this has been circulated with stakeholders in the city council with stakeholders on the police commission. It's gotten significant input from those entities and even even up until a few days ago, making changes, the chief staff and I, based on input from the police commission. Thank you. Yes. And just wanted to say, I, you know, this, this program, as most of us know, came as the result. It was an incredibly unusual situation. It came as the result of two parents who brought this forward under the kahoots model, and have been patiently working on this with the city for two and a half years. Not only were they intimately involved with the way that this all came about, they actually helped to draft the RFP. So we had two citizens who were helping us with the RFP, which in the years that I've been doing this, I have never seen that happen before. They had a lot of input into that RFP. It did not end up being exactly the program that they had envisioned. You know, everyone should know that. And there are, and they have challenges with the way that it ended up growing out. There were, there were changes that either we did them and got the program going, or we didn't do them and probably waited another two years for it to happen. Because the only response to the RFP was the Howard Center, who was in the midst of its own items that it must take care of to to to move forward as an organization. It was not their highest priority, understandably. So, you know, I, you know, counselor counselor McGee is not here. I know that he has concerns. I have concerns I would prefer that this not be. I would prefer that this be in a community based, like in Cape and personally I feel that Cape should be its own department, the third part of public safety. Now, this is where it needs it must be because this is what we have. And I think it's better for us to have this and move forward with it, then to not have it. So, and I look forward to it being, you know, it's not it's not 24 seven. I'm hopeful that at some point it will be 24 seven. We're getting there. And cahoots did not start just like that either so you know I'm, I do think that it had a lot of community involvement. The only thing that it did not do just in the interest of full disclosure is that the job descriptions were not ready at the last public safety committee meeting, and so it did not go to the public safety committee. However, it spent a lot of time and got a ton of input from the police commission. So, I'm comfortable with that because I, I know that they put in that effort, particularly a couple of the police. I'll stop. But anyway, I'm supportive of this. I think councilor jane joining me. Not yet. Okay, well then I'll make the motion as recommended just for a point of information before you do that, President Paul that on review earlier, I did find some issues with the way the motion was written on, on our civic clerks so it is reflected correctly in the updated documents that were posted earlier today. Okay. So do you want me to, do you want me to move the amended or yes, the amended recommended action as, as, as amended on civic clerk. Thank you. Great. Is there a second to the amended. No, it's not a resolution. The amended motion language. Councilor Barlow any discussion. Then it looks like we're ready for a vote all those in favor please say aye. Any opposed. And the motion carries unanimously. That brings us to adjournment, and I will without objection adjourn us at 534.