 This is an open meeting of the Arlington Police Civilian Advisory Board study committee. It's being conducted remotely consistent with the act relative to extending certain COVID-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency, which among other things allows public meetings to be conducted remotely until April of 2022 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. My name is Michael Cunningham. I'm deputy town council substituting for town council Doug Hyme. And I have four additional notes before we begin the meeting. Number one, persons participating by Zoom are reminded that they may be visible to others and that if you wish to participate, you're asked to provide your full name in the interest of developing an accurate record of the meeting. Two, all participants are advised that people may be listening who do not provide comment or by telephone and those persons are not required to identify themselves or register in advance of the meeting. Three, all votes this evening will be taken by roll call. And finally, number four, participants and folks watching can follow the posted agenda materials also found on the town's website. Thank you, Laura. I'm gonna, Sanjay, do you wanna do roll call? I can take the roll call. I didn't have you at the list in front of you, Mike. I do have the list. If you want me to take the roll call, I can do that now. That would be great. Thank you. Karen Bishop. She has told us she's not coming. Anne Brown. Here. Michael Brownstein. Here. Elliot Elkin. Here. Kerry Fallon. Chief Julie Flaherty. Here. Laurel Gibson. That's me, here. Jillian Harvey. Here. Carlos Morales. Mona Motati. Here. Sanjay Newton. Here. Bob Radikia. Kathy Rogers. I am just admitting her, so. There she is. Kathy Rogers. I see you there, Kathy. I'm gonna mark her as present. Clarissa Rowe. Susan Ryan Volmer. Here. And Bob Radikia just signed in. I think he's labeled as Joyce on the screen. Bob, is that you? Bob Radikia responding to roll call? We'll give him a minute. That's fine. Okay. I think. Certainly there's a quorum present. Great, thank you. I want to jump right in to talking about the memo that Jill provided us with. First, saying thank you to you for such a thorough and thoughtful account of your experience assisting residents with the complaint process as it now stands. I think I learned a lot and I'm excited to see what other people's questions are. So let's start taking questions. Susan. Thanks, Laura. Thank you so much just what Laura just said for this comprehensive summary of your experiences. I just have a couple of clarifying questions I want to get through quickly because I know your time with us is limited. So my first question is about the second incident you described where it's noted that the police officer declined to engage in a conversation with the resident. And I don't know if this question for you, Director Harvey, or for Chief Flaherty, but did the officer explain why they didn't want to talk with the resident? Yeah, I'll say something first and then I'll probably pass it to you, Chief Flaherty, but I do feel that at the time and I think currently still there's definitely attention between officers and community members and kind of this general fear. And I've discussed this with you, Chief Flaherty, the sphere that officers have, that if they do engage with conversation with folks who are upset or want to make a complaint that they're just going to be attacked or not be given the opportunity to kind of explain. And so I think that was part of it, but also I feel that they weren't advised to do so as well because as we know, officers do have certain protections and don't have to do certain things. So I think that's related to unions. And so I just want to pass that to Chief Flaherty to make sure I get the facts there. For the CBA, they're not required to speak with a complainant at this time. And the officer at the time when it was brought to his attention just felt like he, it was an incident involving, he had arrived early for a paid detail. He was in half uniform. So he had his police uniform on with a sweatshirt over it. His detail wasn't about to start for another 30 minutes. He was sitting in his personal vehicle listening to a talk show and he didn't see the complaint and he didn't make eye contact with her. He was caught off guard and he just didn't feel like he needed to defend himself in this. And according to CBA rules, he doesn't have to speak. That's super helpful to have. My next question, how much time did you spend on these cases? If you're like, not exact, but yeah, the first case was right when I started and that was a few months. I believe it was February and was wrapped up by May. And the second one, I mean, for that case to each conversation with the resident was always very lengthy, at least an hour at the minimum, probably every time we talked. So I can't actually really estimate overall how much time was spent like that in particular resident. But the second case did take a couple of weeks from the initial complaint, the process in coming to the solution. Okay. All right. I wanna make sure I'm understanding what your recommendations are. So it sounds like you're recommending a mechanism for filing anonymous complaints, a mechanism for triaging complaints, assessing at the start of the process what outcomes a resident might want and recommending that someone outside of the police department be assigned to support residents involved in professional standards investigations. Is that inaccurate? Yes. All right, another question and please don't be offended by this question. Okay. Throughout your document, you refer to the fact that you're basing your recommendations on your experiences that you had supporting residents to support these recommendations. Is that the sole basis for the recommendations? Cause that's a lot to ask for based on say two anecdotal stories. Short answer? No. Long answer. I'm glad you brought it up. So these two, I mean, these two incidents just really helped me see the full process that Arlington has. But these recommendations really came out of my experience working in the diversity, equity, inclusion field. And so that encompasses all the time that I've spent thus far in Arlington doing my role. But it also includes what I'm learning from other communities. So I established, I helped to establish a Massachusetts DEI coalition for folks in the DEI profession, similar roles as mine in other cities and towns across the state. And so we actually meet twice a month and have been since February to talk about some of these types of issues and challenges that we get kind of pulled into and how to problem solve. So it's been really helpful to take some of my knowledge from that group and see what other folks are doing in other communities. But my recommendations were also based on what I learned at the Boston Children's Hospital where I worked for five years before this. And there I was assigned to the autism center working with patients and families either seeking evaluations or needing care for known diagnosis, but it was really my responsibility to be the first point of contact with them and to ensure that they got the care that they needed. Oftentimes when individuals with disabilities or other identities, so in this case, race, but also ethnicity, cultural background, sexual orientation, gender identity, when people with those intersections of identities get plugged into different systems, like healthcare, those systems are not set up for those people and with their needs in mind. So this is where inequity has come into play. So my job at Children's was really to help ensure that patients and families didn't have to deal with all of those negative experiences. So that means asking them what language they need, asking them if they need social work involved, those types of things. And then lastly, my career in DEI is really based on a lot of what I learned at Brown University, where I got my master's degree in public policy and public affairs with a focus on social justice issues. So I was also there, a member of the Brown Center for Students of Color Advisory Board and another DEI committee. And so from that, it allowed me to gain expertise in navigating these spaces, and particularly when advocacy is a focus. And I think that's for me, what the two incidents I was involved in were all about, that advocacy component. And it's really been a privilege to work in Arlington and learn what I have so far through my experiences and my career, so far in town. That's incredibly helpful, super helpful. All right, so based on your expertise, how would you characterize the problem you were trying to solve when you worked with those residents? Yeah, I mean, bouncing off kind of that statement around advocacy, the problem, what I saw that needed to be solved was a problem of trust and lack of trust. And that some residents who have had, based on their own personal experiences with police or experiences of loved ones, friends, family, that they've had with police that there is this lack of trust and not feeling comfortable or sometimes safe making complaints when complaints need to be justified or when they need to be made. So they come by their fear and it's our job to help build that trust back. Police are there to protect and serve. And so they can't do that if the folks they're trying to serve don't trust them. So for me, that was the problem, the need to build trust with the people who have good reason not to trust based off of their past experiences. Is that a problem that's unique to Arlington? Absolutely not. This is a problem that exists in every city and town in Commonwealth across the country. Yeah, not specific here. Okay. And again, don't be offended by this question. So is it safe to say that the recommendations you've made, they're not based at all in deficiencies in Chief Flaherty's leadership or unprofessionalism on the part of Arlington Police? Also, absolutely not. I have been extremely impressed with Chief Flaherty as a leader who is determined to make some massive positive changes. Her willingness to put in the time to make sure that for these two incidents that these residents in particular were satisfied to me was above and beyond. I wasn't expecting it, and I'm so thrilled that every incident so far I've been a part of has had that response. I shared these stories with the folks who lived that coalition and the DEI coalition and their responses were, they didn't do it. They were like, wow, that's amazing. And that they wished that they had that kind of policing in their communities and that it was like that everywhere. So definitely not based in any deficiencies. Okay, all right. Those were my questions. Apologize for just asking a ton of questions. But thank you. Are there any other questions? It's almost like Susan used to be a journalist. She's got all these questions. I was just gonna ask Jill, you sort of talked through, or Susan actually sort of talked through the recommendations. I wondered if you wanted to sort of talk through them for people that, we read them before, but if you wanted to expand on what you wrote at all. Yeah, so it's actually funny, the class I was in earlier today, we were focused highly on appreciative inquiry. So I feel like this is an opportunity to take that into what this committee can do. But all of the recommendations that I'm suggesting, they are rooted in the needs of people who through their lived experiences, again, either themselves, family, friends, whoever it is, they just don't have a lot of faith in police. And so it doesn't matter if it was with an island and police officer or someone else, it's just, this is kind of what we have to address. And that starts with, again, back to trust. How are we going to build that trust so that these fears that some residents do have, they are valid, but they do need to be taken seriously. And we need to also let them know that we are serious about creating a community where everyone does feel safe. So what we know is that when you put these types of things in place, they don't just help residents who otherwise would remain in Thailand, they help everyone. And for me, it's more about the recommendation about asking what a complaint needs or outcomes are. We won't know what they want unless we ask. So bringing folks more into the conversation and asking questions to allow for that community building that needs to take place. Thank you. That's helpful for me to hear. Before Bill has to run off for her. I think Bob. Bob, go ahead. Okay, a question, an anonymous complaint. What would the mechanism for that be? How would you file it? What would you write something to call somebody? What would the process be for it to be anonymous? Yeah, I've actually thought about that a little bit. And so I do also ask that for these recommendations that this is something the committee can also explore further. But one way I could envision that would be having either an online form or again, if we instituted that sort of triage line, allowing for folks to be able to speak to someone and not necessarily disclose their identity. Again, because of that fear, because of potential fear of retaliation, but so that it's documented. Because again, if we don't know that these types of complaints are out there or because I'm not being reported, this is an opportunity to get a real glimpse of what's actually happening and how people are really feeling. And that being anonymous adds that layer of safety for folks who really wouldn't consider making a complaint at all. And I think those types of situations would have to be dealt with differently because you obviously can't speak to a victim if they don't want to be identified, but at least the behaviors and the incidents are being reported and they're being recorded so that if we start to see a trend or something, then you can start to inform how some training needs to be changed or how some cultural competency needs to be added. So you can use it to kind of gather more data. And who would be the person or group that would work the problem at that point? You receive it and then where does it go? Does it go someplace else or into a committee or a group of people? So I think that that's part of what would need to be fleshed out with the idea. So if it's just kind of building up a collection of those types of reports, I think looking at that over time, we would be able to make some decisions on what needs to happen moving forward. Unless there's something specific that was actionable that the reporting person wanted, we would need to consider how to do that because again, it's a little tough to do a full investigation if you don't have a victim who wants to be named or knowing of witnesses. So that piece would need to be worked out. But I think being able to know that you are getting some of that information that you probably wouldn't have before is helpful to be able to identify areas where improvements within the police department can be made. Okay, that's good for now. Thank you. Okay. Does anyone else have anything before Jill runs off to the select board meeting? Thank you so much for fitting us in to your evening and answering so many questions. And good luck tonight. Thanks. Round two, here we go. Thanks everyone. I will see you next time. So hold on, I've got my agenda here. The next thing on the agenda is any updates from committees or constituencies that people have met with? I think since our last meeting, some of you have had meetings to report on who wants to go first? Anybody? Susan. The rainbow commission met a few weeks ago and I was able to give them an update on the status report, the interim report that we published and I think I emphasized mostly talking about the various models of oversight that are outlined in the report and that we've looked at. And it was a really engaged discussion. I don't know why I was surprised. I shouldn't be surprised, but and I wish I'd been able to record the conversation because there were so many ideas that came out of that conversation. And the commission is going to give feedback. It hasn't determined yet quite how it'll do it. I suspect we'll be just writing up largely our own experiences of things we heard from members of the community in the summer of 2020. Anne, have you met with anybody? Had any feedback to give to us? Always trying to remember where the unmute button is. We did meet the Council on Aging Board takes a break over the summer. So we had a pretty full agenda for our first meeting. So I have shared all of our documents and the questions with the committee. They are looking forward to figure out a mechanism to gain some more information from our constituents. And they have some feedback that they'd like to share as well. But I'm not really ready to do that tonight. Okay, hopefully soon. Thank you. Elliot and Mona, I don't know, school's only been going for about a month, but I didn't know if you had had the chance to talk to your peers to get any insight from people at school, either one of you. So far, nothing that big just because there's been a lot of things going on with the beginning of the school year and the construction. So Dr. Janger is very busy. But we can definitely get on that. Yeah. Great, well, we can talk about that more when we talk about the communications update and think about how we all can be helpful to you guys in reaching out to the younger population let's see, I'm sorry, who else do I have? Kathy, anything from the Human Rights Commission? Nope, we meet next week. I'm on the agenda and I'm hoping to have the same positive experience that Susan had with some rich discussion. We'll see. Okay. Next is, I think that's all that Karen's not here so we don't have your services. I think that's all of the constituencies. Michael, Michael. Oh, sorry, Michael, I didn't see you. No, no worries. We're gonna meet as well next week. We originally got to do that in September but it was your own report. So respond until next week. Great, thank you. And yeah, okay, sorry. The next thing on the agenda is a communications update from Susan. So at our next meeting, October 27th, that's when we're hoping members of the public show up to give feedback on this process. I know that Jill is organizing an email to go out from the town, inviting people to join us October 27th and also pointing them to the report. Chief Flaherty and I I think have talked about the desire for the police department to send out a similar invitation to the folks who subscribed to the police department's newsletter. Your Arlington has published information about our process and the meeting, I think something will be in the advocate tomorrow and it's in some of the Facebook groups and on the Arlington list in terms of other communications updates. Jill is nearly done with the Google form that we're creating so people can provide feedback if they're not able to attend a meeting. They'll also have the option of providing feedback anonymously if they want to or confidentially rather. And she is also setting up meetings, I believe for the first two weeks of November with the constituencies that we've discussed and those would be people who live in public housing. And I'm not gonna remember the group, I should have made a list, but with those constituencies and she's also going to create two meetings that are basically open to anyone. One will be during the week and one will be on the weekend. And again, to make it as easy as possible for people to offer feedback. And I think those are the updates. Great. You started to mention the October 27th meeting. The next thing on our agenda was to- Well, sorry, I had one other- Okay, go ahead. Communication. So I went ahead and set up, I attend the first parish unitarian universalist in the center. And so I had had a conversation with the parish minister there. And so she and I are gonna have a conversation that's open to- Well, I mean, open to anybody, but inviting the congregation, anybody who wants to discuss this and offer feedback as well. So we'll collect that feedback as well. Great. And I'm Sanjayo, I would love to be part of that. Sure. Absolutely. Great. So we wanted to talk a little bit about planning for the October 27th meeting. I have you on the agenda for that, Susan. All of this, of course, keeping in mind that we have no idea how many people to expect. I know. And I am going to call on our good friend Clarissa Rowe, who has a lot of experience running public meetings in Clarissa. I'm hoping you'll be able to offer some advice or- Sure. Sure, Susan. But I think the most important thing to do is to welcome people, which is, this is a very good committee to do that. And I don't mind serving as the moderator if you want me to do that. I have run a lot of meetings and I would like Susan and Laura to be part of this running of the meeting. But I think it's more to be open to hearing a lot of people talk. And I have no idea how many people will turn up and we should set some rules for how long people talk. I think it would be great to have a very short presentation of what the interim report is and what kind of work you all have done as like three to five minutes, which is daunting. But sort of talk about that and say, we are here to engage the public. And I loved what Jillian said because she is serving underserved people. And it's very hard in a public meeting to get a lot of people to speak. And I think having some sort of form that they can fill out when they're not, because they don't wanna speak in a public process is a very good thing to do. So I think Sanjay for that. But I think it's more just opening the floor and listening. And the most important thing is to set the guidelines at the beginning of the meeting because you will get people that have kind of an axe to grind and you wanna make sure that they don't take up the whole meeting. So, and the people that are having an axe to grind actually have a lot to say and their issues should be investigated. I mean, one of the things that the, I was struck listening to you all, the Human Rights Commission has been kind of our facilitator for police complaints for the last two decades. And whether they should continue that role is another story, but they have been the people that listened to people that felt they weren't being listened to. So I think just opening it up to people and saying, we're here to listen is the most important thing. And having a written survey or having a number to call, maybe Jillian's number, God help her would be a really good way of framing that debate. That sounds great. Susan, do you know, you said Jillian was almost done with the form. Do we think that we'll have that to be part of like the email inviting people? Oh, yes. That's the entire point is that the form will be included in every email invitation. Okay. And then because I'm crazy about language, Clarissa, this is not meant to be insulting to you. I think we should try to avoid saying people with access to grind. I think this is a really emotional. I'm just saying that to you, Susan. Yeah. You're completely right. No, but I think there are people, this raises a lot of emotional feelings for people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. And on both sides of the barbell, I'm obsessed with that's why I'm talking about a long day. I'm sitting next to a dog who lost all his teeth today. Oh, no. He's a poor little guy. So I'm sitting next to him, trying to calm him down. So excuse me. If I had been the one to say it, I would have used that phrase, extra grind myself. So I'm just saying. So that's all. Good for you. Thank you, Susan. So one thing that I've thought, I mean, obviously this is my first time like being a part of something like this, but I have watched a lot of school committee meetings over the last year. And the first, so when I first started watching school committee meetings, I thought it was, I didn't really understand why after their public comment period, there was no response from the members of the school committee. Like that felt sort of unsatisfying to me as just someone coming in and looking for information and answers. The more meetings I watched, the more I understood exactly why that is and that that makes perfect sense. So I thought in terms of ground rules for us as a committee, we should just explicitly say, we're there to listen, to take in whatever our community is bringing to us, but we're not going to really engage. I mean, I don't know if it makes sense to, if we do a presentation of the interim report to answer questions, or if we just want to not even have that as a part of this at all, I'd be interested to hear what people have to say. Well, I'll offer that. I think people who will show up would have already read the report and time is so precious. My inclination is to leave as much time for public comment. If the moderators were to determine after a few questions that there is misunderstanding of the report, then I think that's a time to step in. But my own recommendation, and it's just one person, is to go in there with an expectation that we have an educated audience who has read the report. That works for me. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think to Clarissa's earlier point about having either a time limit or whatever, I think whoever, you guys as the co-chairs, can sort of set that expectation from the beginning. And we can sort of look at how big our attendance is and sort of attempt to set that time limit to match the attendance, if that makes sense. Does that make sense? Yeah. Bob? The select board on the community input, they limit it to three minutes, as you know. And it's stated at the beginning that they're not gonna respond or take any action on it. It has to be an agenda item. And I think we ought to try to keep it to something like that. Because if you have 50 people and they go off for five, 10 minutes a piece, then I don't know how long you get the Zoom going. I'm gonna have to say I'm on Zoom time. We got it all night, Bob. We got it all by... Okay. I'm just, I'm just... Okay, so I've seen the select one run into that situation recently where they had to go to about 12.30. I mean, that's totally important, right? Anyhow, okay, that's it. No, I think that's a good point to say that up front. Set the expectations clearly makes sense. And I'm also assuming just like Kathy said that the people who show up, this is not likely to be their first time showing up at a meeting for public comment. So hopefully people will understand when we make those limitations. Michael? Yeah, yeah. I just wanted to add, I think it's very important in the public session to create the context so that everyone is looking at something a similar way before they go off with their point of view. I mean, they may be educated in terms of as sophisticated in their reading of it. I think it helps frame public comment by saying, you know, just to remind everyone we were formed to serve this purpose. Our charge was to do this and we want to articulate something about this just so that we're all in the same space to hold the conversation in a structured way. I think I have facilitated community conversations and I have found when I've not provided that kind of structure, conversations go in too many directions that are not constructive for the larger group. So it would just be a suggestion of how do we think of what's the context we're setting? I mean, it's clearly subtle about the process but you know, people have busy lives. They come in for a couple of hours to something that they may not be spending a lot of time on and it would be helpful, I think, to help give that to them because otherwise it becomes, it potentially could become an inside game about what people think they know. Someone has to help hold the bigger idea and the vision of why we're here. Michael, I completely agree with you. And I think it's, I really think this is important. I think that Susan and Laura should at the very beginning of the meeting talk about what our charge is because that's the most important thing to setting the tone of the meeting. Yeah, I think so. I think that's definitely a good way of opening the conversation and making sure anybody who hasn't read that charge recently or thought about it recently has it fresh in their minds. Yeah, the other thing I would add to that is on top of the charge, it's probably good to give at least some groundwork from of the sort of different versions of oversight, you know, covered in the report just so that people are on, you know, have the same framework of language, right? Sort of freshly in their head. I don't think it needs to be a huge presentation of every single thing, right? But I think the three minute review of that might be. Well, I'm wondering, I know that when we were planning to speak to the select board a couple of weeks ago, the plan had been for Carlos to do an abbreviated version of the presentation he had given us back in, I don't even know what month that was. Are you thinking something like that, like similar to that, like to what we would have given to the select board? I mean, I think if other people have much more experience with this kind of thing too, but to me that sort of seems like the kind of thing that helps people get on the same page about, you know, when we're talking, when we're hearing our, when we're hearing their input later, but you know. What do other people think about that, Michael? I think whatever we decide to do, it should be short because people want to talk. Yep. I think the, I mean, I think we'll have other opportunities to share other things that we've done. I think just organizing people in the focus. We're here tonight. Building on, you know, work that's already been started. This is what our charge has been. We want to just likely tell you where we are. And then we want to hear your comment. I think it gets people in there right away. We get the feedback we need because. I don't think people are going to be coming just to listen. I think people are going to be coming. To, to share what's going on. And because they're, they may not think going to. Our general meeting would be sufficient, but going to a public setting seems right. You know, time is precious. So, so that's what I would encourage us to think about. This is Carrie. I apologize for being so late. There was a problem. And I've been listening to what's been said and had read the agenda and. The different notes that came along. And again, there were times I feel like I'm kind of. Out in left field with some of the things that I have mentioned that I have been. Aware of or concerned about or something, but I guess. And because I missed at the beginning of this. One of the things that I know from having worked with. Folks who are on different sides of the fence about something that. You know, one, they, people both feel passionate about. And, and. And I think however we. Put it out there that what we're doing is making this a safe place for people to talk. To share what they, you know, need to share. Complaints. Kudos or something. But I do agree that there should be some kind of. A timeframe. Not cutting somebody off and in middle of a sentence, but just that everyone gets a five minutes or something. And that they are listened to with respect. And then what do we do to respond to them? Do we do it as you mentioned about we're doing it in the moment. Or I was saying that we will, you know, explore what they're talking about. Later. I mean, how do we have them. To feel. Listen to. And that we're taking what they're saying seriously. And I think that actually Jill's example. Of the first time that she answered up. A call about this and expected to spend a half an hour and was actually there for over two hours. Is what made the difference in how that person. Then felt about going and listening, you know, having the chief say, I mean, it is setting some kind of a space that is safe. And that somebody can develop some kind of trust in a very. Challenging. Our experience. I know I'm talking about. People going into. You know, town hall and having a discussion and what have you, but I still come back to how do we make people feel comfortable saying things. And people who don't agree with something that's being said. How do we help them to also feel. And respect it. Like I said, sometimes I guess. Because with all the people that I've been talking to, I've been talking to people that I've been talking to. Where do we see our, our intentional, positive attitude towards the people who've heard and respected. Like I said, sometimes I guess. Because, well, oh, I think most of my training has been how to. You know, as, as a mediator and also. You know, doing groups and what have you that it's just. It's just how we. How we set the groundwork for how people feel safe. I think that, I mean, I think that's really important to, but it's, it's, Sanjay, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say that, you know, I think that that's, that's super important. And I think that, you know, part of, part of the, the plan we have that's addressing that, right, is that we're collecting feedback in a variety of ways. Right. I think that that's part of how we do that. Right. There are some people who are going to be comfortable coming to a public meeting on October 27th, right. And, and speaking there, there are some people who are going to feel more comfortable filling out a form. Right. There are some people that are going to be more comfortable, you know, coming to a targeted, you know, invitation from, you know, Jill and, and the DEI office. Right. So I think, you know, that's, to me, that's how we're managing to accomplish, you know, providing people the, the safety they need, or some measure of safety. Right. So hopefully give us that. Nice to put, thank you. Their trust. Because it is important. It's super important. It's how you make it work. Susan. As we're talking about all different groups, I would be totally remiss if I didn't also share. Chief Larrity and I have been in touch about how to include police officers in this process. And I don't know if we've lost Chief Larrity, her cameras off. I think it's okay to say she is going to try and set up a meeting with the heads of the unions with us. So great. And also involve them in the process. So it sounds like, you know, we're going to have a sort of greeting and introduction. You know, sort of a laying of the groundwork setting of the space, right, and then we're going to open it up. And right, Laura and Susan are going to sort of keep us on track. You know, gently guiding us, guiding whatever feedback we get, depending on how many people we have. That sounds good. I just got a text message from Carlos that he's had if somebody can email Carlos. I just did. You did. Okay, I just did. I just saw his message. Okay, so he messaged you as well. Okay. Yep. Great. Sorry. Um, yes. Sorry to take. Um, yeah, I mean, that's what that sounds like. I think, you know, it's, it, I think it's helpful that Bob said early on that the, you know, a time limit make stating a time limit up front makes sense. I think I was feeling sort of funny like what if only three people show up like is limiting them to five minutes seem overly like restrictive but we have to start somewhere. So I think, I mean, five minutes sounds like a good amount of time to me, like, but, and we're, I feel like you have an opinion. I don't five minutes seems like it could be a long time. Okay. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. Let me do, let me do a little research. I'm not going to make Google on my phone. I think about it, but five. Five seems like a lot. Okay. Well, we'll, we'll keep. Yeah. I personally, I think three is probably the right number to start with right that matches select board and other things. And I, you know, again, my personal opinion, right, is that, you know, you should have a fair amount of share right if, if, you know, like somebody else said right there's no need to cut people off in the middle of their sentence right if, if people are, you know, delivering a, a, you know, an involved story right let's give that a little bit of space to run and if somebody is repeating the same thing over and over again right we can probably, you know, move it along at the three minutes. That makes sense. I, Rebecca Gruber has her hand up. We don't usually have non committee members speak but did you have something. I think Bob wanted to say something and then. Yeah. Okay, let's go Bob go ahead. Yeah, the three minute thing if only three people show up, you can let them go for five or whatever you need to. If you're listening to 30 participants, then I think you have to make that clear up front, but you know there's a lot of flexibility in that if somebody's making a valid point or you know let them go on with it if it's a small group that shows up. Yeah, you can play it by year. I think having some, yeah, and having some what ifs in mind so that we know what to go to so if a large group shows up that we say three minutes but again, even if a large group shows up, only three of 50 people may want to talk so right, fair point. I think, you know, we could potentially say, you know, if we get through everybody that people could potentially speak again. Yeah, that makes sense. The other way would be to let them indicate that they want to when they log on. So you'll know then how many people wanted to talk, not to prohibit anybody else from speaking but it'll give you a little sense anyway. And so that you can take them in order of how they log in so that somebody's not mad at the end that they didn't call on me they called them. Yeah, that's an excellent idea actually. I could, I can take that job as the, we can ask people to raise their hand and I can take a list and move through. Yes, that's an excellent. Yeah, excellent question. Rebecca what did you have. Thank you for letting me speak. I guess that I've attended where there's discussion are either has you've described, collect board open forum, you're speaking as if into a vacuum, or I've attended several meetings where there's specific questions that people are being asked to respond to. But from my perspective of attending your meetings which I don't know if you noticed but I try to come to them. It would be that that I'd be most interested in contributing to, if there were specific questions you wanted feedback from the public. But that would kind of guide the conversation, as opposed to just pontificating on what I feel about defund the police or anything else right. Thank you. Just my thought. Thank you. Susan. Thank you Rebecca for bringing that up, because it's kind of silly that we didn't even think of it, given that that's the organizing principle that we have used in going to all of these other groups for feedback, which is we are asking questions, you know what is historically, how does your mission intersect with the work of this committee and then also do you have any hopes for this committee what are you hoping to see come out of the committee and that is an excellent, excellent suggestion. Thank you. Does anybody have anything else on this. Before we move on. I think this has been really useful and Susan and I will come up with a organized plan. Relevant to what Michael was saying earlier is the next part of the agenda, which is to have a discussion on sort of where we are. Our status as a committee, we've spent a lot of time hearing other people talk to us and learning and studying. And I think it makes sense to come back to the chart, which I will go ahead and read for everybody so you have it in your head. And I'm reading this in part. I think the first question that we need to answer is to have the information we need putting aside the fact that we're about to have all these public forums where we're going to get more information. The study committee, the charge was the study committee shall study the creation of alternative mechanisms for civilians to file complaints regarding police interactions, considering various models, including a police civilian review board independent police department with the authority and resources to receive and investigate complaints. Excuse me, I'm sorry, said committee said committee shall also review police services examine the experience of comparable communities and consider the potential impacts of pending legislation. So, I think the first question is, we've been doing a lot of studying, do people, we've been asking a lot of questions. Are there questions out there that are still lingering for people or have we done our due diligence for that first part of our charge. And I will start calling on people if nobody said I'm going to call on you, Sanjay. Yeah, I don't you know me. For better or for worse. Well, the one thing I do think that we still a little bit have outstanding right you and Susan had asked me to sort of look at the data piece that we had outlined in our interim report right that this the data that we wanted to gather and we have still some of those outstanding questions that Doug and Sandy and Karen, we're getting to us from our September 13th, September, anyway, our early September meeting, right with them. And so I think we're going to get a little bit of more information from that. And then in terms of the data, you know, chief clarity has been super, you know, helpful and open and is starting is pulling together. A lot of that for us, both this some specific data and some explanations about other data and I think that's going to be really useful information for the committee to have as we complete our work. So that's for me that those are sort of the only sort of two outstanding sort of information pieces. Well, and of course, public input, right. Okay. But yeah, I think I'm feeling very comfortable personally you know just that we understand sort of the national context. And the historical context I'm feeling very comfortable that that we have covered that that part of it very well and have the information that we need. Once, you know, yeah, for that kind of discussion. So that's my, I'm going to start moving through people. Just see if I'm going to go to you and next because you're the next square on the screen. How are you feeling about, you know, the study part of our charge. I'm feeling pretty confident that we have explored and done a thorough investigation and study and that I feel like the next piece is just Sanjay did on that, you know, really opening it up and getting feedback from our fellow. So that we can kind of go forward from there but I don't think we can do much more without their feedback. Great. Um, I think we've certainly done our due diligence relating to the charge of the committee. Obviously, like there's always more to learn. But I think, like relating to the charge. I think we've done everything that it's asked in terms of studying. Thank you. Susan, how are you. I feel this the same way we've done a lot and I just want to share personally I came into this process thinking that I knew a lot and learned how ignorant. I was at the start to be blunt and I feel like this is this has just been very educational and interesting and I do think the committee has brought in a lot of different voices. I think, I'm wondering if you think this is something that I can share with you and Carlo is coming in. Chief Lerdee, I'm wondering if you think there's anything that that we as civilians should have thought to ask about or look at from you or from your colleagues, that we haven't, we haven't done it was super helpful. But I just want to check in with you about if you think we're missing any big areas. No, so for the committee Sanjay Laura Doug and I met last week and we went through the list of information and data that's been requested and we kind of broke it down and I explained how difficult things would be to get how long it would take the things to get so we're in the process of compiling all of that data now and I hope to have it within the next week for all of you. I think having chief win and Brian core was very helpful, especially for me and especially because there are two departments in Massachusetts that we can relate to similar and demographics and size and I don't think there's much more information I think that the data that you requested will be helpful to everybody, especially going into the meeting. At the end of the month and to Susan's point, I did meet with both of the union presidents we have two unions that patrol union and the ranking officers. I directed them to the town website for this committee and told them that it will probably be helpful if they reviewed all of the minutes. And I think that they'll have some representation there as well. We'll see you at the end of October 27. That's great. Mona, do you have any outstanding questions that you think we need to talk about. Not specifically. I think, I don't know, I just want to thank you guys again for having the youth voice and this I think it's been a really, really big learning experience for me. And I'm glad that the community is coming together in this way. Thank you. Kathy. Hi everybody, I'm comfortable that we've done our due diligence that doesn't mean we've done not done at all I think the 27th may reveal. You know, they say to us, yeah, but have you looked at, we have to be prepared to say, no, that's a really good idea. And to, so we can't be firm that we finished the study part of our charge. But I think I feel comfortable enough to be able to say we have enough tools we have enough in our toolbox to proceed to the next step which is deciding what, you know, what might work for Arlington. Yeah, you are the next box on my screen. Follow up with Kathleen. I think we've gathered a good basis for the information that we're looking for the piece that's missing right now will come at the next meeting. And from that, when we're done with that, and we take what we can out of it. I think we'll have a lot of information and that we need. And now have a discussion on where we go because we haven't had a discussion about any but yet we're just gathering it all we've got all these pieces and all next by the time we get through the next one we'll have anything new that might need to come up or whatever it is it'll confirm what we've been doing or not. And it will just take it from there I think we're in a good place right now with the information that we have. Great. Clarissa. I think we're in very good shape. I think the data you gathered is great. And I think chief wins statement. Last meeting with the similar demographics made a real impression on me. And actually how difficult it is to set up a structure that works through the political machinations of what goes on. I mean he has to deal with different mayors we just have to deal with different select boards, and we don't change our minds as much on the select boards as they do with mayors. So I was very interested in what he had to say and I was grateful that he came and I like the minutes thank you. Michael. Any outstanding questions for you. I think, I think it was wonderful. This has been a learning experience for me as well. And it was great to hear other voices from the Commonwealth and how they've done it and all the research we've done. I'll be very curious to hear what kind of feedback we get from community members. Mary. I have. I think that this is a group who's worked incredibly hard and to explore outside information to make sure that what we offer to the town. We put forward is something that will be beneficial and useful in. Yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing that I'm thinking is that because it's the first time this has happened in Allington that it's very possible that at that meeting on the 27th, there'll be more things that maybe people want that we didn't think of. So in that being flexible about what's the next step for us as well. Yeah, I mean, in this, you know, you are all just really amazing people and certainly dedicated to the well being of everyone, both in the town and participants in this group as well. Carlos, you're the next person on my screen. I think you came in in the middle of this conversation. We were talking about just taking the temperature of the room about the study part of our charge. You know, and how close we are to moving on, given that we're going to listen to community input. And we haven't had that yet. Are there questions outstanding research that we haven't thought of that we would need to do or we have we've done our due diligence and ready to move on to the next steps. Yeah, you're muted. Thank you. I think we have done a lot of work. It's, it's, it's, we, we could not find out everything, even if we did, we had five years doing it. I mean, that we have collected a lot of really great information. Thank you for inviting all the, all the people to give us a range of views. And I think that the missing link is exactly going to be in the 27th when we hear from more community. And I hope that we can, you know, that that part of the outreach, you know, maybe, is there anything that we're really missing that we haven't seen. That's, that's it. But other than that, I think we're, we're in good shape to take to the next step. Thank you. Sunday. I just wanted to say something. I don't know. Maybe this will be controversial. We'll see. I may be viewing the 27th, a little bit differently than, than, than some of you in that, you know, I'm going into the 27th. Very much looking to, to hear, have we missed something, right? Is there, is there something that we've forgotten? Is there some piece of information that we, that we don't have? Right. You know, but, but I don't think that that's necessarily going to, you know, it's going to help me hear right that the concerns that the community has. I think we already have a lot of the information that we need to have the ensuing discussions, right? You know, the community input is going to help shape that. But, but I'm not expecting the 27th to be the sole determiner of what this committee then decides to do. I just wanted to sort of put that out there right that the 27th is important, right? But, but so is all the research that we've done and all the work that we've done up to now. And, and right and to me right the 27th is helping to shape further shape right the work and the research that we've done up to here. Right. I think that's helpful because what I heard of what I was thinking as we as I thought about having this discussion was that, you know, we, this is the first time we've all had to, to talk to each other in a while about all of this and I would love to try to start the discussion of what, you know, what have we, we've learned about a lot of different ways of approaching the complaints process, what have people heard that they like that they think might work in Arlington we had a brief conversation, several meetings ago, I don't know which one exactly, where I think we all pretty much agreed that the New York City investigative, you know, fully staffed option is just not one that sort of makes that we can see working well in Arlington so we've had a little bit of a discussion about one thing that maybe doesn't isn't where we're headed but maybe we could start talking about what people have seen that felt like, oh this might work for us. If I could suggest right one of the things that I think it was Carlos at one of our earlier meetings talked really about like, you know which function where we talked about these different models. I was talking about, you know, which functions, which functions are we interested in and I think, you know, I would be very interested in having that conversation about what at this point right again no nobody's asking for final decisions right but but what functions are people interested in. Yeah. I mean we have, we have some good time to talk about that if people want to start. I feel like I always talk and I don't I don't want to be the one to always talk. Anybody Carlos. Where you have you thought about this sort of next step of our process. I think that that is a good thing to do a search like narrowing down, you know, you know, the easiest things as you were saying Laura is think they're really we know of the bad that is not for us. And then trying to do at least you know at least of what are those things that could potentially work that has some something that resonates and then from there we're going to see, you know, what are what's going to fit or not right so going to say we're saying about the functions. Is it going to be some sort of review or not, and if it's a review where we're doing. It's just something about collecting up alternate, an alternate way of collecting complaints right there's maybe doesn't necessarily have to start in the police but maybe somebody can come to this body, and then they refer to the police, because maybe that's a way for for some people that may be afraid to directly you know complain to the police have have access to different access. Maybe a point there is how to differentiate between you know the human rights commission, what is this serving that is different from that, right what would somebody will come here and not there. That's something that we need to to fine tune a little bit. And then how, how do we gather data, you know how do we go around and work with, you know, which if clarity and, and the police department to deserve as a way of communication for the community to address something that can be some data that we collect like you know this data kind of is strange, can we dig into that and, and it's a conversation that doesn't necessarily lead to a complaint, but it's just like you know some, some patterns or something that some policies that you know that how is it that we, the community have a way to address some of these issues without directly you know maybe not going to talk to the police department but it's like hey, I want to try some things and then this body serves as a way to communicate and go the other way around like so from the police department, being able to communicate again to the community right and serve as a separate body or something that I think Kathy wants to say something. No, please finish I just want. So, I like where Sanjay is going on focus on the functions, but I can't shake the fact that there might be a question before that. And the question for me. And I haven't, you know, I'm going to say it in an inarticulate way is, what are we trying to build in why. What are we trying to accomplish. And why which and in sort of embedded in that is what is the problem, if they're ever trying to solve. And I'm not suggesting that the police or the problem. It may be that there's the absence of a vehicle by which citizens can, or residents can articulate but I do think identifying the functions that are attractive to us, but I still think that there's a question before that. So the question of what are we trying to build. Well I think influence. What are the functions that we are attracted to. Susan. I would not have had the information necessary to inform the opinion I'm about to give at the start of this process. But I would say, what problem we're trying to solve. Jill did a really effective job on answering that question this evening. So that's one. And what are we trying to build and create. If we accept the premise that you want to create public safety in your community have to work with your police department. It needs to be a two way process. There needs to be a mechanism for people who are afraid of the police who come by that fee here quite honestly, it might have nothing to do with the Arlington police has to do with other things, or other people. But there has to be a deliberate intentional mechanism by which that trust can begin to be built. And I don't know if that sounds pie in the sky, but I mean, the summer of 2020 surely showed us, we have to make improvements. And I don't know how much change needs to happen. And, you know, on a local level, we have the power, we have agency, we're all working together. Hopefully we can create something that will work for many people. I was just gonna say, I think I, oh, I talked about this to James Milan on ACME, but you know, I sort of look at problems in two different ways, right. There is the, there is the, the emergency, we must immediately clean up the mess problem. There is the, how can we make things better problem, right. And it's, it's in the how can we make things better problem. It's hard to, you know, you don't have something to point at to say, this is the problem we're solving, right. We're saying, we're here to make a better Arlington, right. And, and, and part of the way that we're making a better Arlington is, is making sure that people can be heard and people feel safe, you know, bringing their complaints forward. And, and that we have insurances, you know, that, that, that we can tell a credible story about whether or not and, and, you know, our police department is, is, is great, right. And I think, you know, part of what we're trying to do is, is build that next, you know, that next story on the scaffold of, of, of trust, right, we're not going to one, whatever we recommend or not recommend is not going to be the whole story of that. Right, but this is, you know, what I'm trying to create is, is one more piece of that, of that trust puzzle. Right. You know, yeah. I'd love to hear from other, other people who their thoughts. I see Bob, I saw Bob starting to go. Let's hear Bob. No, I'm just trying to put some thoughts together on it. I haven't. I'm getting more a little more confused. Particularly, there are police complaints. And whatever it is. And, but then there are other complaints of mistreatment of people or their perception of it that really police matters and how they seem to be getting embedded in this thing. What, what do you mean by that Bob, I'd love to understand. Maybe it's reading Jill's report. Many of the she, she seems to get involved in a lot of complaints, discrimination complaints and those kinds of complaints. And I don't think they're police matters are they depends on who's doing it. Actually, Chief Flaherty, can I put you on the spot. Can you answer Bob's question. Bob, I think I need some clarification. So Jill works for the town and she does work with a lot of discrimination complaints, not just police complaints. Correct. Is there more to your question. That was my basic question. So the report. The report that she wrote the memo that she wrote to the board tonight talked about two complaints that she was directly involved in that were related to the police department. I don't understand that, but then she deals with a lot of other issues surrounding directly involved with the police. Sure, like housing and disabilities and right. It seems I get a sense that some of those kinds of things are being brought into this discussion. How so, because some of that's. Because you hear it being they brought up some complaints. But in like in her chills. Thank you. Just how I'm not, I'm having a problem, separating those complaints from what we're doing. So I think when she was talking about her experience in different areas of town and in her job at, I think she said children's hospital. She dealt with a lot of other different complaints. And that's where she got her basis for writing this memo. You're right. Okay. Yeah. For the recommendations, I think her background and experience informed. Her recommendations. And I think another point is that. Navigating supporting residents as they navigate police complaints really isn't in her job description. I don't think I could be wrong about that. I think it is. I don't know. I think I may sort of be able to shed some light. Right. I think I hear what you're saying Bob about the other complaints being brought in. I understand now what you're what you're saying, I think. And I think, right. My understanding of what Jill's report is saying to us, right, is that, you know, if you look at a lot of these institutions, right institutions where people are trying to be heard. Right. There is a common framework in helping people to be heard in in larger institutions. Right. And her recommendations are based on that right whether it's police or a hospital system or a university or whatever right being heard in an institution, especially when you're a marginalized person is difficult and right. Her recommendations are how we can support doing that specifically related to Arlington police, you know, informed by how it works and how those problems manifest in lots of different places, whether that's police or other institutions that is that sort of what we're getting at. That's kind of where I was trying to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the common thread right is that we're talking about right large and, you know, large isn't the right word institutions right where there's a set way, and it is often hard to navigate that. And providing people the right tools and the right way to navigate that is, is I think is part of our job. I think to go to what Susan was saying about, I mean, I was struck both reading Jill's memo but then also hearing her talk more tonight and I would the question that that I didn't ask that I now wish I had is. I mean, it's hard to say whether these things are or aren't in her job description her job her job is such a huge one that I think like, you can sort of make the argument either way and I think if I remember the memo correctly she answers the phone. She looks up the Human Rights Commission, how to file a complaint so or who someone to talk to you. And so at the very least we know that there are people who are who are who have things that need to be addressed, who aren't going directly to the APD. What Jill, we learned from Jill is that she's able to then now helps people navigate and advocate for them and make use of the fact that we have a really receptive police chief who will spend the time I mean I was really struck by the description of where Chief Larrity like role played and I mean, that seems above and beyond to be like engaging in a role play and I think that's really great. But those people but those two complaints might not have ever gotten to Chief Larrity had Jill not been there to answer the phone and I think we all know that Jill is working. Her job is huge. And if there is a specific if we can create some sort of method, based on all these recommendations of everybody we've talked to including her of a way to make it a more explicit straightforward way for complaints to be handled in that respectful way that we're seeing that they've been handled. I think that is a function that I would like that I would be I would feel good about Susan. Just to kind of put a point on what you were saying Laura, I read Jill's memo I was very had the exact same reaction you did. Chief Larrity we did not know you had a second career in broadcasting. It was like an accidental model of how something should work. You have people who are afraid. Somehow or another they made it to somebody who was able to help support them through the process, and the police department met them where they needed to be met. That should happen for everybody. I think this isn't the case where the role playing happened but the neighbor dispute. The fact that the result of that is that that resident is making better use of the police department and I think to me that result is so like when somebody said already like this is a two way street we need we need each person to help, right. And that person feels safer, both in the circumstance that they came to Jill to complain about but also going forward because she's now using the service of the police department in other ways and I do think that to me that's a that's a goal that it, I think we that people would support. I mean we obviously don't have to, you know we're not coming to any conclusions tonight and I don't. But I think anybody if people have other thoughts about these functions, the model or drawing on specific things we've heard about that would be. I think it's a great time to talk about it. I'm sorry. framing going into listening to public comment I actually think for me this helps, like, prepare myself to think about what kinds of things people may bring to the table at the end of the month. No, I was just going to ask if, if I could, you know, if we could pick on the people who've been a little quieter since we started this part of the discussion right and sort of, you know, see, see if they have thoughts about either the problem that were, you know, or the, or the functions that that people are interested in. I'm going to pick on the high school students again because I feel like there are whole it's a whole population of people that are not often heard in many institutions. So, Elliot or Mona, or I can just pick one of you to make you talk. You can't make them talk you can ask them if they'd like to talk. You can make them say no they won't. Um, Elliot, are you like what, what are, I know that you haven't had the chance to like really meet with your peers but you know you're in the high school you clearly care about these issues, because you wouldn't be here, if you didn't. What have you, what kinds of conclusions have you come to or what kind of functions could you see us recommending that would make high school students feel more heard. Um, so I'm trying to send a question like something that the this this committee could do to allow people to be more heard is that kind of. Yeah, we can we're talking about what kind of recommendations, we may come to to ask town meet you know what what what kind of processes or, you know, if there was a body that we were going to recommend a committee get created. Like, do you think that that would, how that would affect if, you know, the your peers and thinking about their interactions with the police. Um, so a lot of the interactions with police would have in a school that could be done to make like to go a step further. I'm sorry, the connection completely cut out so I didn't hear anything I don't know if that was true for everyone, anything you said up into interactions just now. Yeah, I'll just I'll just go through that again. Um, I yeah so I think like most of the interactions people have or if they like a problem with the police or something need to talk about it's with the school resource officer, officer white and I think like he's done a great job of making himself available to people if they need to talk. But again, like, it's really difficult, like if you've something that's so deeply personal to go talk to like a stranger that you really don't know. So I think like a step further would be to do something like you could have like a form online or something done through like the guidance counselors. Um, just to make it easier like if people have something they need they need to talk about, like, relating to the police, obviously. Great. Thank you. Mona, did you did you have any, anything to add to that. Or other. Um, I was just thinking that that was actually a really good point I think a lot of the, I don't know, the reason that people don't come forward a lot with things like this is because of that fear like fear of judgment feel a fear of being like the only person that has had to go through an experience. And I think a lot of the times we feel a lot more secure if we know that other people have experienced similar things. So I think it would be really incredible actually if the space could be created for people for students to actually come together with other students that have faced. Um, interactions with the police that they want to talk about, because I know that specifically in middle school, there were a lot of interactions with the police that I think were difficult for a lot of the students. So I think if a space could be created and if this space could actually be created from this group, it'd be a great opportunity for students who felt fearful going to the resource officer or to their guidance counselors. But I feel like they'd be less fearful if it was with other peers that knew about it. So, thank you. This is this is Harry again. I just want to thank both Elliott and you won't know for what you're saying because I think what happens is, um, and taking a look at who's actually involved who is it that we are trying to be a support to that. What an adult might come forward and say to somebody that they felt comfortable with or maybe didn't. I think that students on in that same place. I mean, I think the idea of peer work is just amazing. And that's where change happens. It's, it's as long as we think that we're the only one. Then it's a secret and it's quiet and then that festers inside of us and it doesn't. It makes us causes us to lose faith on some level in and with adults and with the police or whatever and I think that you really touched on something both of you. Very, very, very important. And sometimes it's a favorite teacher, you know, a guidance counselor, the resource officer, and sometimes those are not the folks who teams in high school and even middle ground middle years feel comfortable with. And maybe that's another part that you all could be really helpful enough with us helping to figure out, but it still comes back to that sense of whoever, whoever is a part of this. I think it, you know, and I said this a long time ago and I know it was something that I was told that we're going to talk about later, but who from the community will be there to be a support person. You know, for the, for people who are talking about really challenging things, previous experience with police officers. And being, being intimidated by police officers, who they go to within their community to feel comfortable or heard or believed. And then where does that person come in. And I guess what I'm thinking of is that oftentimes some of the various churches and industries and what have you with, you know, have have input and a lot of the faith and trust that people in their, you know, within that, that, that group really trust. And I guess I just think it's also asking a lot of times. Hold on one second. Sorry. People become together and then get up in front of other people in this meeting and talk about how they have been violated and they're from their experience by the police with no supports around them to help them be intimidated. You know, I'm coming more from the personnel and the human interaction. So I'm just kind of throwing that out and, you know, and if you guys Elliot and you want to give us feedback at some point I think that that would be really terrific. You know, how does it, how does it work and what will help it to work and reach people who oftentimes get really dismissed. Because middle school is really challenging. And so is it middle school. And how do you know where you belong. Will you be respected and listened to. So, sorry, I just, I did that always feels like it's a piece that's missing. I don't know what we have talked about. And I don't know if we were going to invite people beyond, you know, I did this meeting is going to happen. Will we ask teachers or will we ask ministers or something to come along just people who represent the different groups. Are you I'm sorry. Informing our process. I'm sorry I said that again. I'm not asking these people from different, these different groups to give us feedback for our process. I mean, if they, if they came along and they were able to to, right, be a support for folks who are either haven't said anything yet, or do get up and talk about some of the challenges that they have experienced. I'm probably not saying it right, but it's just, you know, it's just the fact that the stand up with a bunch of people that maybe you know what you don't know when disclose things that happen to you that a personal can be a little bit overwhelming. Well, we are, I mean, I think, you know, we are having some there are there are going to be meetings that are not just the meeting in two weeks. Michael's office is working on setting up meetings with different constituencies. Sanjay is doing a program with the first parish. And there are, yeah. Michael, I, I don't know, are you in terms of functions and thinking about what we've learned about in models of, of, of oversight or advisory committees what have you started to hit on things that you feel like are the right or in the right direction for Arlington. Not yet because I was hoping to the meeting that I have with people next week. Okay, you really understand, you know, what our constituencies are so I, you know, I have a personal point of view but I really want to get more voices and bring those in. And I have not yet. I have more to share at the next meeting. Kathy, you sort of started some of this conversation by what is the, you know, bringing us back to what are we what is the problem we're trying to solve do you. Are you. Are you feeling like we've made any progress there tonight. I think we've made progress I don't know if it's about that question because I'm not sure how. First of all I'm uncomfortable with my own wording because it suggests a problem and you know problems aren't aren't good things I mean have we made progress tonight I think so I mean. You know, I like where we're where we're going. I'm sort of excited about, you know, the real meaty part of our work is coming up, not that what we've done before is is not but to be able to grapple with this stuff to say what is it that we want to build I keep coming back to that, you know, we've been charged to be architects or to recommend, you know, an architecture for for something that'll, you know, be useful and helpful and fair. So I'm looking forward to that that discussion. I had one more little piece to add to add to that discussion about, you know, being being architects and I think, you know, there's the discussion about, you know, what are we building is the discussion about the specific functions that are in it. And, but I also wanted to share one of the pieces that I took away from our conversation with chief chief win last week. And that was, you know, really, you know, it sounded like their committee was having identity issues and figuring out, you know, what could they accomplish and what could they do right and so so having a variety of tasks right so that there is concrete work that whatever thing the architect right is doing, I think is an important outcome, right with with with those functions right. And I think part of their, their challenge right was feeling like they could give some recommendations but there wasn't necessarily action. Right. And so, providing concrete action for whatever thing, you know, whatever structure we put in place I think is something I'm looking to make sure you know from a health of whatever we architect standpoint right Bob. You know when you are going to present your draft to the select board. We have not we, we, it has not been rescheduled I think Susan was in conversation with Steve de Corsi to try to find when on the agenda we could fit in is that I don't have any updates. There I have no updates on that. Well, the reason I bring it up is, it would be nice if that draft were made available, maybe it is. It is. It's on. Yeah, it's on the town website. I was hope, I would hope that the people that are going to present on the 27th have read it because that will give them a lot of background as to what we would have been and what we've done in addition to your little summary of it, what it's worth. The interim report is is on the web. Oh, I should note for people that a reader of the report noticed that I had I had messed up when I created the PDF from the Word document, and a bunch of the links were broken. And so if people had had read the report earlier on those the links, especially in like appendix C with all of the things those didn't work. And so that I fixed that and I apologized to all of you for All good representing us poorly, but but it's been fixed. And it's good now. Well, I think that maybe we've exhausted where we can go tonight here. And we have a lot of a lot. We've made some progress. I do know Sunday you sent out minutes. Oh yes, please. Or should we. Yes we should. Let's get those approved so that we can. I think she clarity had something to. So, I know that I should have commented when Jill was still on and she talked a little bit in her memo about accepting anonymous reports, and I just would like everybody to think about going forward until the next meeting what that would look like, because there's a big difference. We accept anonymous complaints right now the police department is a big difference between me and the select board and the Human Rights Commission, accepting anonymous complaints in a third party, where someone can just go with this really, you know, not not knowing if this putting in a complaint and not having to sign anything. I'm no penalties or perjuries and just complaining in general if they got a parking ticket, or if somebody, they found that an officer is respectful when giving out a speeding ticket or something of that nature so I just feel like there's a difference between accepting anonymous complaints at a police department and a third party. So I'd like people to think about what that would look like. Great. Thank you. Okay. Do you have the minutes Sunday. Oh, do I have to give you the Was I sharing the correct thing. Yes, I don't know. You were sharing the minutes. Sorry. Let me try it again. There we go. Are you able to see it. Okay. So let's just review the attendance. This is the September 20 minutes. Karen Bishop and Brown Michael Brownstein is present. Elliot Elkin and Kerry as absent. Chief Flaherty. Laura Jillian Doug Carlos I have Mona as absent. Myself Bob Kathy as president to Clarissa as absent and Susan as present. Any corrections. I think we're going to have a lot of time left at some point to join the select board meeting. And then I'll just sort of scroll through here. I had circulated these. I don't know if anybody had any corrections. Oops, I see a typo right there. If there are no changes or objections. Does someone want to move. To accept the minutes. And Brown seconds. I think we're going to have a call vote on that. Sanjay. Oh, you can have Michael do it. Something to do. Maybe not. Okay, maybe you should do it. Sanjay Newton. Yes. Susan Ryan Palmer. Yes. And Brown. Yes. Elliot Elkin. Michael Brownstein. Yes. Kathy Rogers. Yes. Bob Rudokia. Yes. Kerry Fallon. Yes. Mona Motadi. Yes. So moved. There can be published. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. The minutes are approved. Minutes are approved by unanimous vote. Okay. And I just want to make a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. Brown seconds. Motion moved and seconded to adjourn. I'll take, I will take a roll call. Okay. Sorry about that, Laura. No problem. And Brown. Yes. Michael Brownstein. Yes. Elliot Elkin. Yes. Laura Gilton. Yes. I'll take a roll call. Yes. Mona Motadi. Yes. Sanjay Newton. Yes. Bob Rudikia. Yes. Kathy Rogers. Yes. Clarissa Rowe. Go. She's still here. She's gone. Susan Ryan. Volmer. Yes. Kerry Fallon. Yes. Carlos Morales. I think he's gone as well. Regardless. It's a unanimous vote to adjourn. Okay. Thank you everyone. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thank you. Night everyone. Bye.