 I hit the live button and I think that means that we are alive, so Hello, if you uh all you crazy people there in the chat if we could get some Yeas or nays on the audio here are me saying some words words words Tyler you have some words Did she would like to say I do foot fish shell and Yes Okay, so Yeas on audio whether or not they're good or bad would be great. I know Tyler's gonna come across is probably low Nah, I should sound awesome just sound very I could I could wait. Hold on. Let me see if I am really quiet I don't think I checked my mic settings. I mean I said it at a hundred percent this morning But that doesn't mean that it hasn't changed Let's see Tells my sound Ryan says he can hear us both which is not really saying all that much Like I can hear you but Doesn't mean the quality is all that great. Can you hear me now? God. I wanted to shoot that guy. Oh Wait was I I might have been coming from my webcam. I hope not Now you you were way better before dude Really it's gotten worse. Oh wait way worse. You sound like you're way farther away tap on your microphone. Let me see What yeah, that's where you needed to be in order for it to work So Is it working fine or no? Yeah, but you're gonna need your microphone right there at your mouth. Okay, that's cool That's cool. I can do that. I can do that. That's no problem. Yeah that um It's very odd because the microphone was literally like just like I mean it wasn't far away from I'm from my like mouth at all And I cannot believe that I was on the webcam and it sounded fine It did sound pretty good actually But um, yeah, you probably will sound better with the actual mic, but you'll have to eat it a little bit Now look just because of that little that little thing there No one go out and buy my webcam or ask me what webcam I have so you can go out and buy it just because it's got a good mic in it because That's only deceptive. This this webcam is no Is that the Brio? No, this is the it's the Logitech C9-22 pro, okay Yeah, I was gonna say if it's the Brio the Brio has a shit mic on it. Oh, it's terrible Like seriously charge $20 less and don't put the mic in Just be better Putting the mic in there was an insult because I mean I've I'm not kidding you I've spent like 15 bucks for like a lapel mic on Amazon and had Way better quality and that microphone on that Brio Way better. There are laptop microphones are better by far we which is actually saying something You know guys you're gonna have to forgive me. I got a cold So, oh no, I hope you haven't come down with the virus Hopefully, it's just when you know one of the other ones that no one really cares about I'm pretty sure it's just a cold But we'll see all right. I'll find out. Thank you Yeah, if I die tomorrow, you'll you'll then we'll know That's not funny man Well, it's only funny because I know you're not gonna die No, we have we have podcasts to do we have obligations to keep We have people to like The good news is I've already recorded tomorrow's pop tomorrow's videos. So that's done just in case I Actually do have a video that's going out today. I'm very excited because like I've been really Sparse on my channel here lately So I feel like I'm starting to get back into the swing of things I've addressed some like system issues, which is Well, you see you went on vacation and you forgot how to do YouTube. Yeah, that's exactly what I took a short break YouTube slapped me for for taking a break and then after the punishment. I just I couldn't get back into it It's been hard getting into the swing of things. Oh man. I took yesterday off and I have fewer views now than I've had in like, I don't know two months It's ridiculous You take a day off and they just like oh, well, obviously you're done Thank you for your mental health pick up there YouTube really appreciate that All right, I mean I didn't post for like two weeks and people thought YouTube it just like Dubbed my channel into a shelf. The thing about it is is I take a day off People are so used to me doing a video every single day. I take a day off. I get a message. Are you okay, man? I mean, are you are you all right? I'm just taking days off. It's okay. I took three whole days off this whole month. So don't just calm down. It's all right. I'm here I'll continue consistency Like I'll give it to you props like some good consistency Yes, tomorrow's video will be my 600th video Since September 2020 Congrats, man So I've done almost more than two months two years worth of videos in less than two years So I've got a problem. Oh I somebody asked me for a tutorial on BSPWM and arch today and on the discord and I done I had done one of those like I did a I did a video About that and it was one of my earlier videos like just a few months after I started. Oh my god It was so bad like there was no editing. Okay, like so there was like painful silences for like Moments at a time like like vast vast silences I Had no clue what I was talking about you could tell it was like my first time ever building a package from scratch That was not DWM like I didn't know clue what it was doing. It was it was just painful It was so bad that video needs to be updated so bad, but Jesus God, it was bad like the audio quality was bad This is why we all don't go back and watch our videos people are like like you'll get messages like you know like this old video I love it. You're like, I'm not watching it Like I will not go back and see what I was like a year ago because I know it's not gonna be good Yeah, I know that the thing is is that that was in March of 2021 I started in September of 2020, so I can't even imagine if I was still bad like Six months after starting what the hell do those videos sound like in freakin September of 2020 They must be like Scratching your nails across the chalkboard or something I remember the days where I didn't edit anything like for like the first Actually, I'm pretty sure until I like to like three or four weeks before district tube called me out on his channel I edited nothing like literally I recorded put the damn thing up online and walked away Yeah, I missed those days. I wish I could do that now I just here you here y'all go have a video. I did a video You could totally do that, but there was debt like you get messages when you don't post a video You'll start getting messages like asking whether or not you're okay. Just because of the editing. They're like Like you all right like you where you can't do it anymore Yeah Like no kidding live just gets crashes. So y'all just get what you get There you go All right, let's go ahead and get started. So I got audacity up and running. I got everything ready to go So I'm you ready to go Yes, sir I'm gonna hit recording here in OBS. I'm gonna hit recording here in audacity You can do the claps whenever you like All right, three two one Bad it's pretty close Good enough for government work. All right, so Welcome everybody who's in the in the live chat welcome whoever everybody who's watching this afterwards Just to let you know if you've made it to this point and you're watching after the live stream is already over There will be timestamps that goes go along with this podcast I usually get those in around eight o'clock p.m. Eastern time or so It does take me a while to get them done because I walk away from the computer after the podcast for a little while For stuff and then come back and do that So if you're watching after that point, there should be timestamps so you can actually get past The pre-show nonsense because I don't cut any of that out for the YouTube audience So you just get to watch it which is good. This week was fairly normal We talked about normal stuff. Sometimes our pre-shows nonsense can be pretty Jank if you will so you on if you want to watch some of the previous shows, you'll know what I'm talking about anyway So this week we're gonna be talking about the best desktop environments and if you are new to the podcast We don't talk about the main topic until well into the show So again timestamps if you're not watching live I highly recommend that way you can skip the news which is really breaking news as we come in seriously This is the most breaking news we've ever had. It's definitely you've never heard this before in the world This is wait and see it's gonna be good. Anyways, let's go ahead and get started here Hey, everybody, welcome back to Linuxcast. I'm your host Matt and I'm Tyler. Yes, we are back. We took a week off We are we're gonna try to I believe String some shows together because we have been taking some weeks off lately like we've been doing like every other one But it's the summer. That's the way it usually goes But we're moving into the fall, which is just nuts to say So we're gonna try to put some put some Episodes together right in a row and come up with some really good topics. So this is the Linuxcast. We talked about Linuxy things Hence the title the Linuxcast. I mean if you came here expecting us to talk about beer or pornography That's not really that type of podcast. So I apologize for that Although we have talked about porn fast. So I'm just saying you never know it might pop up Um, I don't know why the male brain brain just always goes to sex. It's just the way, you know, it happens Anyways, it also sells, you know, you know, I mean if you're trying to get people interested in a podcast There you go. Hey, you could be one of the like You can be one of those like mobile games to have absolutely nothing to do with women or you know Nude nudity or anything like that. You got like a tower defense game But the the avatar for is going to be like a scantily clad woman Like just because you know that that's a good way to get, you know, 14 year old pre-pubescent, you know pimply eyed douchebags to download your application That's definitely what I wonder why nobody's tried to do that on YouTube probably because they'd kick you off YouTube If you tried to do that as a thumbnail I don't know. I feel like there are probably definitely those channels that do it. We're just not In communication with those kind of channels Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure some of them get away like so the thing is like you on twitch You know on twitch it used to be a thing like the The ones that got the most views were the women who showed the most Cleavage, right? They got actually started getting trouble for that. So that's the reason why that doesn't happen near I mean it still happens, but not nearly as much as it used to I mean that used to be a thing It didn't matter how good or bad she was at streaming if she so so showed some tit, you know It's definitely going to get some views. You know what I mean? I mean, it's dudes on the internet like let's be honest. That's most people on twitch Exactly nerds. I guess that's literally the closest you ever gonna get to a tit So you might as well just be happy about it Oh Okay, so see what I mean, definitely we've never done a tangent before in our entire lives So Tyler it's been a couple weeks. What have you been doing in Fosland in the last couple weeks? Well, I've had a very interesting time So I gave open BSD a shot. I actually I redid my whole like desk setup So I've got like 180 degrees of monitor all around me, which is just awesome And then I decided to go ahead I I thought I figured out how to address some issues with open BSD and I did if anyone like watches my channel and is interested in open BSD content, they You've probably seen me like how talk about some of the issues that I have with open BSD Even though I love it a lot they For whatever reason open BSD did not the AC PI driver AC AC PI TZ I believe is what yeah, that's what it's called and it did it just didn't work For some reason that driver would just make all of my fans stop spinning, which is awesome I figured out how to just unload that from the kernel So I did they it didn't break anything and it just fixed it kept all my fans running from the bios control So everything was fine there But screen tearing was a problem that could not be fixed on open BSD I spent about five hours bashing my head against the desk trying to get it to stop and Couldn't I just could not get tear free to work Picon wouldn't fix the screen tearing. It was just it was a really bad time I was gonna ask about Picon because usually that's what's fixed it for me Yeah, Picon didn't fix it. I tried my custom build of Picon Jonah Burks Picon and then the just regular Picon that open BSD has in ports None of them work and you use the v-sync flag, right? Well in my config v-syncs v-syncs enabled But I could I couldn't do nothing fixed it like I mean nothing Picon wouldn't fix it Messing around with XORG. I couldn't get tear free to actually properly work like it was very weird It I just couldn't fix the problems and that there was some other annoyances like so one of the things that I've been working on for the past couple of weeks is I I'm very interested in like I've worked in game development like partially. I haven't like had any like big Titles, I've never released any commercial game myself But I've always really liked game development and I've I've messed around with as a hobby and worked a little bit freelance in game development But I've never been good at art and I've never really done anything like that so I've been taking classes on like art trying to find my own art style and So I've been working on that and I was very interested since I've been drawing a lot I was very interested in Making a 2d game in Godot and I was like what better thing to do than fix my problems I've got with open BSD and develop in Godot. Their Godot engine is broken on open BSD Don't know why But it's just broken. So Yeah, the whole open BSD trip didn't work out and I Was on Fedora yesterday But I would I installed the flat pack and the flat pack of steam on Fedora is just very annoying to me Because it doesn't detect my extra hard drives like I have to go in there I'll change permissions. Let it see it and do stuff and it's it's very annoying, but Other than that, I really do like Fedora. My mom's getting Fedora on her laptop the next time we sit down I'm installing that on her her laptop. She's using Ubuntu now I'm that's what I've been working on. It's just a lot of system stuff and figuring things out and trying out different stuff What are you using now? Right now. I'm on I'm on Windows 10 now only because I was setting up my I've got another Drive in here that I'm installing Gentoo on and I'm trying to do a custom kernel on that one and my custom car Keep not working right problems So I'm still working on that one and this is just my fallback drive I literally installed this last night because I was like I'm messed around with this kernel stuff And there's a good chance because I had a whole bunch of different errands to run today Like there's a good chance. I won't have time to keep working on my kernel tomorrow So I installed this as a backup and thank God I did cuz My Fedora install was also kind of having some issues with audio Specifically and I think that has something to do with pipe wire, but I won't I won't shit on pipe wire too much It's got a lot better. It's got a lot better. I'm sure I was gonna have the issues with pulse I'm sure right, but yeah Okay, that's what have you been doing this week? Well for me weeks Mine my Linux experience has been real. I mean utterly fantastic over the last two or three weeks It has been so good. Like I can't even I wrote about I wrote a blog post about this and made a video about Fedora, so Right before about a week before we did the last podcast you were on vacation I had that all those arts problems and I switched to Fedora the workstation version and then right before the podcast that time I switched to the KDE version and I'm still there. So it's The thing is is like I Never really had a bad experience with arch that was arch's problem, right? So I would usually when something went wrong with arch It was definitely something that I did like either I didn't have great dependencies or you know I broke something by tweaking and stuff something like that And I'm positive that the problems that I was having with arch before I switched were caused by me The thing is is that in the last three weeks. I've had such a smooth experience with Fedora that I Unless something like drastically changes I don't see myself moving away because this has been I mean I haven't had a as good experience with Linux Maybe ever. I mean it's just like it works So good and I like I even at one point was bitching about how slow DNF was but DNF is actually faster than apps now Like I tried I tested it yesterday like before I would have swore to you I could have I would have paid money to bet the app to us faster than DNF It's not at least not for me anymore DNF is faster The way at least the way I have a setup like I have parallel downloads and stuff set up right and it works really good And the thing is is like the one thing that I thought I would miss from arches day You are right like that's the one thing you'd expect to miss and thing is I missed it Like yeah, there have been things that I've had to build on my own or compile or things like that, right? And maybe maybe maybe that has gone up to like 15 things that I've had to compile or build or Move to the path or something But I haven't missed a you at all. I'm not even a little bit like usual like like that's how good of an experience My my time on fedora has been over the last two or three weeks That I'm not missing arch like whatsoever. In fact, I deleted arch off from my laptop and put fedora on it I have been now that I'm done with my quinoa review and it and that's in the editing stage. I moved To regular fedora on that computer behind me So I now have computer fedora on all of the computers that I use and it's just I mean it is so I can't it It's just so unusual for me to install Linux distro That's not arch and not immediately say you know, I got I missed a you are so I'm gonna go back You know like like usually it's like I made fun of this like a couple times now But in my video where I said I was going to switch away from for I had people in the comments saying yeah You're not gonna last three days. You're not gonna last a day You know and the thing is I made fun of those people because because you know like how dare you not have faith in me But they're they were right there like I've done this before saying I'm gonna switch away from arch and I'm gonna go use a boon to I'm gonna go use gentoo. I'm gonna use whatever and Every single time before that I usually would like almost immediately like within a day a few hours Maybe a couple days switched directly back to arch because I missed a you are We're going on three weeks. It'd be in fact, I would say I'm over three weeks now of using arch or using fedora, excuse me and I'm not leaving. It's good. It's so damn good Like seriously fedora is good and like and I use a lot of flat packs like yeah, you were talking about flat packs I use like 25 flat packs now That's good I don't I didn't use the flat pack of steam though because I knew that that was gonna be back because steam has so many things that it needs you kind of need the Download it from the pre-posts Especially if you're if you've got a lot of different drives or stuff that you've you got games on like or I mean even if you just have one separate drive like Yeah, you've got to mess around with stuff and it's just that's not fun Like steam is one of those things where like you kind of I don't know I I think everybody really especially if you play games you really like steam But you don't like steam in the way that you want to like mess with it It should just work and then like you click on a game like that's all you want on a steam like at all So fedora is really good. I do have a question for you. Sure after you've been using fedora for a while Do you do you think that your family who is more keen towards windows Would like fedora KDE would that be a good thing to get them started on? For normal people Probably for my mother absolutely not She doesn't she No, she's not switching to Linux. I've tried I've tried Until my I was blue in the face like I take like a plea like her her windows Windows laptop runs like uttered garbage sometimes it feels like the bottom of it is on fire It's that because she's one of those apparently hoarding tabs runs in the family Because she sometimes has 70 80 tabs open on this little AMD 13-inch laptop and Chrome You could cook eggs. You could fry eggs on the bottom of that thing sometimes and like I like mom Linux will solve your problems like every problem you have that you always make me fix Linux will solve and she's like I don't want to use Linux and they're like no I use links so I keep having to fix windows so for normal people. I would say probably yes I would say this is going to go against everything that I've ever said on any with video or podcasts ever But if you're going to use fedora use the GNOME version It's just it's just better supported. There's fewer fewer bugs KDE On fedora is buggy as shit. It just really is and it's and it's worse on quinoa It's like it's so bad on quinoa. You can't use it. That's gonna be that's gonna I mean you can use it, but don't expect to actually use it like KDE You use it like it's out of the box and that's it. There's no customization because nothing else works Legally like the prince like I'm I was gonna talk about this too, so I might as well just go ahead and bump into it I used to quinoa for three months on a hard drive here and switch back and forth between it wasn't full-time But you know kept going back to it and The thing about KDE is that the number one feature that you'd want to use is to customize it, right? Change I can stall themes install icon stuff. None of that stuff works in quinoa. It none of it I don't know if it's because of the immutable nature of the file system I don't know if it's just because that version of KDE is shit I don't know, but it's broken like it does not work So I've been using the stock version of KDE in quinoa for the last three months and I Like I don't I don't like KDE anymore. Unfortunately Like I want to like I'm the customization guy like I write I have 14 I3 rices sometimes I change my I3 rice three times a day Okay, so And you think I'm nuts I use yes yesterday alone I use ever force cat Poochine or wherever how you pronounce it and drag you out all in the same day And because I have a script I can easily just switch between them. It's really nice, right? So I love customization and that's one of the reasons why I want to like KDE so much and KDE was my It was my jam if they still say that the kids still say that probably not You know, it was it was the shit when I first started using Linux. I loved it I would not use anything else But now it is so buggy, but we'll talk about that later. We're getting ahead of ourselves Anyway, so yeah fedora that fedora is what I've been doing for the last three weeks. It's fantastic I just I've been using my computer and it's working like it's really weird like oh and I should say this too And I'm gonna knock on some wood here pipe wire hasn't given me a single issue other than it won't remember My default output so every time I reboot my computer it changes from the Dac, which is what it's supposed to be to the the speakers that are hooked up So I just had to switch that But apparently that's the default behavior because it doesn't recognize things plugged in via USB Initially, so it switches back to the speakers when it boots up and then just doesn't remember to switch back They need to fix that but other than that that's the only problem with pipe wire I've had so far Even even like I don't know. It's just been really good. So yeah So that that long-winded spiel on fedora. I've become a fedora fanboy. What is this nonsense? It's it's good like it's really especially 36 36 is so Nice, they've done a lot there and fedora is one of those distributions that it's It's just really reliable like you In pretty much most of fedora's history. You might not have liked it Like you don't personally choose it but for a door is one of those ones where like I don't know it fedora doesn't have like a There's not a community of people that dislike fedora because it constantly breaks Like it might not work for you and your hardware That's one thing but like where it works and then decides not to work and then decides to work and it's Not one of those distributions that It doesn't it doesn't have a design philosophy that really Embolds that like you don't arch as one of those ones where because it's so rolling release your cost You're constantly able to update it. It's There's more chances that for it to stop working on you fedora not so much like I mean if it's working It's gonna keep working. Yeah, it's nice. It's really good I It's gonna be interesting to see cuz like 37 will come out and like early next year like April or something I know this is saying a lot But it'll be interesting to see if I'm still there around that time because I would love to be able to say you I've been using a distro now for eight months. I've never been able. Well, that's not true I used Arco for a long freaking time So Arco was there was one install of Arco where I was on it long enough for Me to switch between two different kernels like actual big number kernels Not just like like little number, but like the I went from like 514 to 515 or whatever So that was like my longest time on a Linux distro I could see this as long as nothing else goes wrong I'm keep knocking on damn wood because I know every time I jinx it that some of you know The gap to the podcast my computer is going to explode or something. I'm gonna install arch on it again but You know, I don't want that to happen But you know, it's just gonna you know karma and all that shit. Anyways, so Yeah, so let's go ahead and then move on to the What do we do next the oh the contact permission that we've been we haven't been doing this for like two years by the way But yeah, I remember how to do this. I I'm a good podcaster. I'm a very good podcaster Anyway, so contact information if you want to get in contact with us You can do so in any number of ways email is probably the best way to do so you can email us at email at the linuxcast.org I highly recommend you do that if you want to give us some listener feedback or you have questions or whatever That's the best way to do that and we will eventually do a Listener feedback style episode, but we need people to actually email us in order to do that So if you don't email us, it just feels like we're not doing this for anybody. We're just talking to ourselves So don't make us feel bad. I'm just saying you can also find us subscribe to Tyler He's on YouTube and Odyssey and he has a discord server all those links will be in the video description But youtube.com slash is any og is the place to find him on YouTube. He's you're over Like 2,500 subscribers now or something like that. Um, I I'm pretty sure I'm dangerously close to 3,000. No, that's nuts, man That's awesome. Oh that meant that meant a lot law shout out really did some numbers for you didn't it cool I still can never get over it is the most insane I never thought I'd be watching one of his videos and be like holy shit. That's my channel like that's Never thought that was gonna ever I get called up by DT you just had a one-up mean get mental outlaw who has double the subscribers Thanks a lot there I was very proud of you like so that's hey, that's my boy It's so I just got a little tears man. He's so good anyways YouTube comm slash Zanio G You can find links to all of our other contact information including Twitter Odyssey Macedon The store which is still there the Amazon wish list is all there all the Tyler stuff all that stuff will be at the The linuxcast.org slash contact speaking of the linuxcast.org That website has been complete. I think I mentioned this before but it has been completely redone It looks basically the same but it's on a new platform. It allows me to blog now very easily It allows me to update it very easily with a script. Thank you, too. I'm gonna pronounce his name this time Joris for actually Doing that for me. I truly do appreciate that He's affectionately known as J-Dog because I most of the time I butcher his name. So anyways thank you for doing that and That website is now fully up-to-date not only does it have all of season six episodes there But as all of the episodes we've ever done on the linuxcast except for the first three which are lost to the ether No clue where those are no clue probably don't want to hear in many ways. That was I'm almost sure I have them on my computer somewhere, but I'd have to go find them. That's too much work Anyways, you the linuxcast.org check it out. It's good. Okay, so moving on to the news now Tyler You and I we scour the internet for the most latest breaking news and we always present it in the timeliest manner That is known to man like you like Seriously CNN fuck you guys. We're way ahead of that shit So to prove my point here is an article that is at least three weeks old So I mean In our defense, we didn't do news the last time we did a podcast And I didn't feel like updating it. So Linux Mint has released Linux Mint 21 It's in beta form now and I have tried it. The new features are so underwhelming That I don't even know why they're calling it some major release. It is I mean, I don't know if anybody's looked at the release notes But they I mean they're changing from blueberry to blue man for their Bluetooth handling and They've updated Cinnamon to the latest version, but it has what I can tell us no new features At least from their show notes or from their release notes, they don't list anything that is like majorly groundbreaking It's based on the the latest Ubuntu 22.04 LTS. So you're gonna get all the LTS stuff from Ubuntu Minus the snaps obviously But other than that not a lot of new features here. They I mean there are a few a few things But other than that They have done some work on the window manager They have added some Neat settings for like displays and stuff like that, but nothing like I used it and it looks exactly like Linux Mint has always looked and I'm not expecting them to completely redo it I know somebody's like, oh, you you young ins always want change and shit. Well, no, but if it feels like It feels like when Linux Mint goes from one version number to a next Usually it feels like they have some like big features like a couple years ago It was the HP TV the the the the IP TV application, right? A couple years before that it was like the sticky notes or something that that's Nothing big like that this time and I it feels like maybe they're Maybe they're just gonna go ahead and say it cuz we're definitely someone is is definitely already just angrily typing out this comment If there's nothing broke don't fix it That that's gonna be a lot of people's mindsets when it comes to Linux Mint And if we're gonna be honest kind of agree with it Linux is one of those ones where I I want them to change stuff Like I want that I want big up like if you're gonna do a major update there needs to be I don't know major updates But at the same time I do also understand that most people that use Linux Mint are fine with it the way that it is They only want improvements like I don't want I don't need them to change the look and feel all the time Okay, so I would want that I love new things shoot something shiny I mean just like I love that kind of shit It gives me stuff to talk about on the channel and it's it's nice to try From stability point to standpoint. I understand that I'm not really talking about the look and feel I'm talking about you know like something new, you know or something improved I mean they've improved some stuff, but it feels like it's all underlining. Maybe maybe they've been working on bugs And that's a good. That's Not that's not a horrible thing to do It just it just feels like they've moved from one Bird into a major new version without anything that's majorly new and it feels a little boring As I've said before boring doesn't necessarily mean bad. It just means I Degree with you there 100% but We all know Nick's men's never gonna be for me anyways, like like they could have come out with the the best like they could have had amazing new features everything like I Don't know what they could have done that could have impressed me honestly because it doesn't matter like they could have done Everything under the Sun that I could have ever wanted them to do and I still wouldn't use Linux mint because I'm not a Linux mint guy I just don't I don't care for the aesthetic. I'm not a big cinnamon fan I guess cinnamon is a great desktop environment. We'll talk about that later, but It's just not for me. So Yeah, anyways, Linux mint 21 is in beta form if you want to try it out You should try it out. You won't notice any difference from the other Linux mint. I'm just gonna put that off there So yeah, that's Linux mint. So Tyler they redesigned a tray icon like Yeah, it's gonna be the same Linux mint. You're used to yeah Yeah, I would love some updated icons for Linux mint like their their icon theme is Outdated like it's just not I mean it's not at a way to outdated But or like spoil that to add a way to add a water at a whatever the fuck it's called You know like the the brown teal fullers and Nautilus, but it's still I don't know people people I had someone sitting down at this computer. I was showing them my monitor set up It's one of my mom's friends and I was showing her cuz you know, I had fedora loaded up I was showing her the icons and she was like those look really good. I was like, yeah, they used to be shit brand No, I mean they were straight up like the old adwaita icons like if you took a turd the color of it And then put it on folder icons. That's what it was like that was a hundred percent their icons water Yeah, water returns. That's exactly what it was Used to look like and she goes how long do they keep those? I was like years Decades like it was so long and the thing is it nobody like and there's like literally not a single person in the world That like them there's a lot of people that use them like they were like they didn't care right the people who use them just didn't care about them, but the people who who Teared were very vocal about those things being the ugliest icons ever and for years They refused to change them and then when they did they finally did they just water down the turd color like What are you doing? Like it's like a slightly watery Okay, so the thing is if we were the kind of podcast that Name that had titles for our podcast like you know like like a lot of the tech podcast use something from the show to name as a Title water it watery turd definitely has to be the best podcast title ever But it's so accurate and people don't get that like they were bad But I've heard a lot of people talking about like cinnamon could use an update like on its icons. I Agree with that, but I don't think they're in they're nowhere near no the shape That a dueta was it they're not bad. No, they're just they're just old Yeah, like they could use a polish to them You can't like a dueta couldn't polish theirs cuz I mean I mean you could See you can polish a turd, but you can't polish a watery turd Like once it's gone to the water report unless you dry that shit out you can't polish it Just a talk about like icons just came up for a second and then we just had to move on to a dueta It's like the number number one example of really bad design that like it was like The thing about is like is like the GNOME foundation was deaf to it like or blind to it I guess like there has to be like like the person that was in charge of those icons like has to have like really liked them like fervently like Cultishly wanted those icons to say the same and I think the only reason they were able to change them is because either that guy died Or because he moved on from the project like there's like that's gonna be like the only reason they were able to change it like like Like with Apple like Johnny Ive was like the designer for Apple for years and years, right and they were His whole thing was thinner and fewer ports. They got rid of him Now they have a lot of ports and they've gotten their laptops have gotten a little bit thicker So they can have better battery life. Thank you. You're like, that's that's that a way to guy Like they got rid of them and now they changed the icons. All right Moving on to the next the next The news item to Tyler your news of the week or whatever it is Yes Mon is a news item from this week surprisingly again, not breaking news, but It's close to it Ventoy has just got an update that adds support for Fedora core OS and almost like Not quite to a thousand but close enough like I mean if I was getting money, it'd be close enough to a thousand So they've added up at it almost a thousand other ISOs Have support now for ventoy Your excuse actually, I don't I don't know if just discord did this but I heard nothing except an excuse me I just let out a mate an amazing belch, but I did manage to lean away from the the microphone Discord's too good sometimes It's definitely gonna be on the recording though because I'm not But yeah, so that's pretty much it they've got a lot more support and I'm just I'm excited about it because ventoy Ventoy is one of those things where It it can have issues and if you notice they Somewhere in the article it talks about this this release fixes a lot of there's a lot of bugs that are fixed And addressed in this update which is awesome because it's buggy Sometimes but it's reliable enough that most people don't even know there are bugs in ventoy and there's things that aren't supported Then Continuing to add a lot of support and fleshing out ventoy is So awesome because ventoy is one of those things where most people Know that this kind of solution like exists where you could just throw a whole bunch of ISOs on one drive and just boot from them But a lot of people don't like ventoy is great because you can show people ventoy Anybody can install like ventoy is not hard to use at all. It is super simple And as soon as you start using it That like people that I've shown ventoy to and then hear about them talking about ventoy is awesome because everyone is so ecstatic about it It's awesome. It's it's amazing. There's nothing like it You have like 12 people in the comments right now saying oh ventoy is excellent ventoy is awesome ventoy rocks. Yeah Um, so a story about ventoy. I've used it once it didn't work for me. So obviously it was too hard for my little brain No, it was it's not here's the thing. It's It used to be more difficult To install but now they have The application to do it like which you can also update ventoy from the application, which is awesome And there was a lot of bugs back then so I would recommend trying it again because Again, there are some people that have been like I've been using ventoy for forever There's no problems with it at all. And I'm like, no, there's definitely problems. I've I've had issues with ventoy But when it works as soon as you get a drive with ventoy on it that works It's it's the best like walking around with like 32 different isos for Literally anything is awesome I I can't tell you how many times a ventoy drive has just been a cool thing to show other people And it's so dumb because it takes like two minutes to set up Easy it's better than having to wait for dd all the time to exactly. Yeah But yeah, so that's that's mine that new there's new update for ventoy It's really not that big of a deal But hey, like if you've had issues with ventoy, I'd recommend giving a shot now Yeah, so before I move on to the main topic I don't want to spend too much time on this but somebody in the chat asks for advice on starting a youtube channel My best advice is post videos every single day. That's the best thing you can do Seriously, really and all honestly just start posting. Yeah, just just it does not matter what quality is like seriously Go back watch my first videos. They were like god awful. They were so bad I'm not deleting them because their motivation to get keep getting better, you know, but um It doesn't matter what quality is post every single day I mean you can take some day hand You can you can take some days off But establish a habit of posting as often as possible I'm not saying you're going to be minister beast or anything But that's how you gain some something of a following Also, if you're not going to post every day when you do post do it on a schedule So like do it on the same day as a week. You're training basically what you're doing is you're training the algorithm So also don't not make a video or not post a video because you need to get it perfect I hear this shit all the time a video will never be perfect Like it will never be if I can guarantee I'm pretty sure matt can back me up on this if we spent all the time editing to make our videos Like perfect perfect. We'd never post a video. Well, it makes there's no way you can get A video perfectly Especially when you're not like I am miles and way better than I was when I first started, but I'm still not good at this, you know I I am right there with you. I completely agree. I am I I am not great at this at all It would be hard to say I'm good at it. I'm just I just do it like that's it Hey, all right I know I'm not good at it because of the amount of time I have to spend editing the videos to Get all of the ums awes you know is going throughs and um crazy shit that goes on like um Yeah, so true story. I could not say the word access Yesterday in the video that I recorded like I could not say it. I don't know why I think it was accesses accesses I was trying to come up with plural. I it was impossible. So I I spent 10 minutes trying to say that word Couldn't do it. So I decided to redo the that that last sentence with the word with a different word I just ended up using the word uses And it was just it was the stupidest thing ever Um, so yeah, you're never gonna get perfect on on a thing on one of my videos So that's the that's the best advice I could do if you're gonna start a Linux YouTube channel Make Linux content as often as possible and don't also I like I said I didn't want to spend too much time on this but choose a Topic like if you're gonna do Linux content do Linux content Don't Do Linux content five days of the weeks and then do makeup tips the other two You know, I mean it's not gonna work out well for you If you're if your goal is trying to grow don't do that if you if you are Genuinely fine with posting like if you're going to post different content It needs to be like Kind of related on the same channel. Yeah If you're going to post gaming content and you do Linux content Then it should probably be Linux gaming that you're doing like Don't feel like you can't branch off of like one hyper niche topic but also Don't just Don't just do random stuff like there shouldn't be like how-to's and then again like with tech and then the rest like Other half of the week. It's like yeah, like what you said like makeup or Random shit like it's that's not gonna grow a channel fashion Yeah, yeah First of all, it's not it's not gonna damage your channel But it's not going to help it grow at all when you're starting out The main point is I think for most people it's not just Having fun making content but also trying to get people to watch it because there's I don't know Especially when you're starting off. There's a lot of People people when you start YouTubeing They're like there's there's two different types of people the people who are like I wish I had 500,000 people that were watching me already, which though like if you've got that mindset like You're probably not going to last long on YouTube because you're not going to get 500,000 people Yeah, if you want to be mr. Beast that those are your expectations You're going to be disappointed But if you're the type of person that genuinely does like you like growing at I wish I could go back and Do over my youtube channel at the start only because I don't think I don't I can't remember How excited I got when I got like my first like 10 to 50 subscribers like that shit was awesome I was like people actually like like me enough to like Actually subscribe like that. I thought I was mr. Beast when I had 50 subscribers. Okay. Yeah It was so good like I I would I felt absolutely amazing before DT did his call out, right? I had 400 subscribe for 419 subscribers. I thought I was doing fine. I was adding like You know five or 10 new subscribers a day. It was really good Um, and I was really happy with that. I mean like obviously I was much happier afterwards Shocked out of my pants, but you know, obviously happy afterwards But before that like you don't have to get a big call out from a big channel to be happy Just be content once you you get some growth. But here's the last thing I'll say about this Actually two last things and both of them related one don't be ashamed of being a youtuber Tell your friends that you are a youtuber if that's what you want to do But also relatedly send those links to your mom and dad and your sisters and brothers and stuff that's You want some views initial views when you get restarted send those things to your parents though As long as they're not horrible. Yeah, as long as they're supportive As long as you okay as long as you haven't quit your job to do this They're probably gonna be like well, it's it's a it's a hobby I can see if you like you look mom and dad. I quit my job I'm gonna become the next mr. Beast like then you're probably gonna have less support Because they're gonna be more realistic than you ever will be but as long as you're saying, hey You know, I'm having some fun posting videos on youtube. Hey, here's the link. Would you watch it and tell me what you think? instantaneous first views for you, you know, I mean and you get good feedback too because Usually everyone Yeah, usually your mom's not a troll. So yeah Well, and also like I was gonna say like if you got a family like mine, you'll get real feedback like Honest feedback and it will be Couched enough in love, you know, it's not like hey you fat bastard get off youtube I've had that was a quote Dude, I've had I've had this one that gets me is like The one that for me that gets me it's like I've had comments about my teeth and I'm like come on, man Like come on like I've had my mom watch my teeth or watch my teeth watch my youtube videos and comment She's like she's like, you know what would be nice if you wear wore better clothes I'm like You want me to dress up for youtube? like Like what sit here in a suit And the thing is the it's I did right like I used to just wear t-shirts right like now I'm now I wear these things with the collars and you know, it I don't know if it does any better, but you know, I was really hoping you'd finish that statement Just like like I was really hoping you'd be like now I wear a collar and just look how many subscribers No, what I what it would have been more funny is like now I wear pants and I got some more subscribers Turns out we're not wearing pants on youtube not a good idea, especially when you stand up in front of the Camera and just wave it all around I could never I know that I know honest to god. I've talked to people who have recorded videos Without pants on and I'm like I've never done that because I would be too Even if I'm not recording my webcam. I'd be too nervous that someone's gonna find out I'm just in my underwear Well, I mean at least you were wearing underwear, right? It could have been worse. All right Moving on to the main topic, which we still haven't got to we've been recording it off for 45 minutes It's actually not a record. Um, it could have been way worse. Anyway, so then The main topic this week is best desktop environment for linux now Tyler I don't know about you, but my opinion on this has changed drastically Over the last five years like when I first started I had a definitive answer Like I would have thought anybody for my desktop environment Now I I'm less violent about it. First of all because I'm a window manager guy, but also um It's just changed. So tyler, what do you think the best desktop environment is for linux? Well, I'm glad you let me go first because I mean I don't know like I I love hearing you talk about ganone, but it's just how invested in how much love you have for it Like that was like, I mean we would have been sitting here talking about how much you love ganone for just hours Definitely Yeah, so uh, I don't know for me I think the best desktop environment for linux is kind of a loaded question because it's always Obviously going to be dependent on like your personal preference We know that but if you had to choose Well, I was gonna say probably the best overall for the most people is probably ganone only because it's Very widely used. There's a lot of people that use it. There's a lot of support for it and by default ganone just Like it's it doesn't have the same design aesthetic Um, like kde has to windows like if you're coming for windows like kde looks pretty similar like it's It's the same kind of design paradigm. So you know what's going on Um, ganone, even though it looks different it's very hyper like Stylized it's very easy to understand what's going on I think for a lot of people ganomes probably the best However, I wish it was kde like k kde should be the the one that's best for most people Cinnamon is really good too. But I I don't think cinnamon is is one that I would recommend as like the best The cinnamon development is done by the linux mint team and this is gonna be my color but Honest opinion about the linux mint team. I don't trust cinnamon to be around in five years. Like I just don't trust it um There's just there's always been something about like the the head developer of linux mint He's so flaky and he's threatened to quit multiple times Um, I just don't I mean I'm a I'm sure that cinnamon would get picked up by someone else And there's a big team are on mint now. It's it's not like elementary Which elementary has a legitimate chance of not existing in a few years Yeah mint will stick around forever because the community is huge But there's just this feeling in the back of my head that cinnamon just Like like they abandon the kde version. It feels like they've pretty much Put no effort whatsoever in the mate and xfce versions I don't even know why they bother continuing with them like seriously just choose cinnamon It's obviously the one where your heart's at Um, yeah, I mean all the rest are there for summary Like they they feel like they've just thrown them in there because they're like oh, this might make someone happy Like no one cares about it. It's only the cinnamon desktop And it's not bad either the cinnamon desktop is not bad. It's pretty good. Like because yeah, it's If if you're used to the windows paradigm the cinnamon desktop is is pretty good It's like as I said, I don't trust it because I have like many issues Well, the thing for me is is like I want I I want to say that the best should be between cinnamon and kde but really gnomes gnomes just It's gonna win out just because it it's used much more and it works in a lot It works well in a lot of different use cases where cinnamon is just reliable like It to me, I feel like kde should be the best for everybody if it had cinnamon's reliability Like and I'm not saying like longevity wise. I'm saying like cinnamon is just it there's not Bugs all in it and kde is bug ridden. It is it's a mess. It's terrible so bad But when kde works right, it's awesome. Yeah, and it it it works When it's working right, it feels great. It works the way you would you think a come a desktop environment could work The problem is it just doesn't do that all the time if it did that all the time I'd be like, this is the best everyone should just at least I mean if it's not what you stick on this is what you should try like it's You know Okay, so I have things to say about the things that you've said. So first of all I disagree on the genom thing. I don't think that that's surprising Um, but the reason why I disagree on the genom thing isn't necessarily because I don't think that genome is good I think it's because of how different it is to windows like If I gave my mom vanilla genom like if she were to agree to use linux, which is never gonna happen But it does just say did she take a look at it and like what am I you you open it up? What are you supposed to do now? They do have a tour now, but right? So they had this little like slide show or tour thing But okay, so apparently the I'm I'm taking I'm taking care of them. Okay. So like we have sex spots And what we've seen we mentioned porn way too many times and then it's thing for fear It's all I have multiple moderators in there. Come on guys do your shit. Um I'm gonna miss. What do I pay you guys for? I can't wait till that something people talk about like How much how much are you paying tyler to be on the on the podcast? It's a lot of money Um, by the way, big a very very big round number I chose it. I mean it was out of the generosity of my heart But anyways, if you gave a new linux user gnome and asked them without looking at that tour Which most people probably skip the tour anyways What they're supposed to do they wouldn't know because there are no icons. There's no dock There's no menu system nothing there by default. You have to know To either select the button up at the top, which is the activities button Or you have to know to select hit the medici in order to actually get the doc to pull up Um, that's my biggest problem with handing gnome to new users now If you've used gnome before or you've watched youtube or you're not stupid enough to bypass the tour Then it's not that big of a deal. It's still it's still I don't think something that would be great for new users But it is obviously the desktop environment that the vast majority of linux distros have centered around as their desktop environment Uh, manjaro is done at fedora ubuntu. You know, you name it the big distros they seem to have Sided on gnome is the thing and as much as that depresses me it seems to be the truth now the thing about kde like My answer to this question five years ago guaranteed would have been kde I would like I said I would have fought you if you'd said something different because kde was fantastic and Everybody knows I like customizing stuff and you can customize the living hell like every single feature Possible on kde is customizable like every single one Like there's not a single one there that you cannot customize right everything there is customizable The problem is is when they add all those features in together and it's constantly adding new features It's buggy so You can't you but you can't hand kde to a new linux user You just you you can't because they're gonna have problems. They're gonna get into the settings panel, which is Way better than it used to be but still a mess And You know, it's just it's just like one setting up another they're going to be overwhelmed and That's before they even get into start changing things like if they get in there And let's just say they start to understand how the settings panel works and getting into all the settings and stuff like that Which is you know, it's possible if they're if they're technologically inclined enough to install linux They probably are smart enough to eventually get their head around the settings panel of kde You know give them we're getting giving them a little bit of credit But once they get into actually changing stuff like just say they've decided to change to change to a new theme As much as I love changing themes on kde It is not a seamless Experience because not every kde theme that they have there in their little store actually works a lot of them are broken They have missing icons. You know, sometimes your icons don't take effect You have to log out and log back in for them to take effect Sometimes even that doesn't work and you're just mess you're just left with No icons whatsoever. They're like Why they don't have it so that there's like a backup icon set so that if your icon doesn't show up It just shows, you know, like the the default icon something Seriously, it's just like a blank space. That was your default idea. I like seriously I don't understand what they're thinking there. So I mean like the biggest Like obviously there are bugs surrounding a lot of this stuff in kde But for me the one that always gets me is the theming like you you Change a theme and it just breaks stuff all the time And that's before you even add in the complexity that is covanta, you know I'm like you add in covanta man, and that's even more confusing like like okay So do I still set themes inside of the settings panel or do I not do that? I mean How are you supposed to do that and you don't really know which one they're supposed they really want you to Actually use so you maybe you end up using both. Maybe you don't even know covanta exist Which you know kind of leaves you out of using some of the cooler themes that you're going to see on unix porn all the time So kde has problems. So if I were in charge of the kde development What I would do is put a pause on all new features like no new features whatsoever For the next year, okay, none. Okay, we're going to fix bugs. That's all we're going to do We're going to get this thing to be the most polished Desktop environment on there and then kde wins. Okay If they can get all the features that they have right now working really well all together on The main distros, you know, I mean, you know, they're They would win because People love customization. I mean, there are people who really legitimately love gnom like they really do But most people want some form of customization and you're going to find that level of customization No matter what you want to do with kde and But the thing is as it is right now, yes, you can't wreck you can't recommend it because it's just so buggy So my answer to the question now that I've gone long with it around it is actually xfce Um, I was actually going to bring up xfc. All right, let's talk about it. Yeah xfce is old as Fuck seriously, they update maybe once a year. Uh, they've been in the four series for Probably a decade Like seriously, it's been a long time since xfc three It's been a long long time. So, uh, they don't It is the like the Debian of desktop environments It is the most stable thing you're ever going to see so it checks off the mark of stability It has customizability even if it's not the most intuitive thing in the world Like it is kind of all over the place in terms of setting themes and stuff like that, but it is possible And and hold on I do want to go and say you are right and that it's a little compartmentalized and kind of all over the place, but It's there are plenty of explanations on how to do it Like it's it's not one of those things where it's like ethereal like you can't like it's not it's not like You know getting a gen to install working like where there's definitely people who know how to do it There's definitely guides, but like you're you're kind of left in the weeds at some point on it No, like there's it is something that is very feasible for a new person to do you can theme xfc Yeah, definitely and because it is finally gtk3 you can use pretty much any gtk3 theme out there It's I mean you'd have to figure out how to install it, but you can use those things Like it's not going to prevent you from doing And like you can I've seen some rices with xfc that look Utterly amazing because there's just so much you can do with it, but it doesn't mean you have to You know it works really well out of the box. It has a windows paradigm So if you're coming from windows you can you have a menu there, which is the whisker menu It looks really nice. It works really well and it's good search You know you can obviously change you can change you can change the size of it if you want to You can add a different menu if you want you can change anything about the the the panel move the panel wherever you want it's You know it has all the customization that katie has Without being the mess that katie has become you know what I mean and And it's like I said before you can't discount the fact that it doesn't change it has looked the same acted the same For decades now That's the biggest downside to xfc is that when you download the like say you're on arch like you've managed to install arch and you do sudo pacman-s xfc for whatever the package name is that default Version of xfc is the fucking ugliest default version of a desktop environment. You've ever seen in your life Like I think I think analytic minded in chat put it the best xfc It's like x it's like xp windows xp if you load it up It looks oh it doesn't look like xp, but it looks like it came from the same era that xp came from it does it's it's an old version of windows And uh that is the biggest hit against xfc if they did something to make that That default version of xfce Better looking more people would use it like people see that that that default look and think oh my god This is the ugliest thing ever i'm going away like like they don't put any effort into it because if that's the way the developer Has it looking out of the box then obviously you can't do anything more for it. It's dead You know, yeah, well, see that's the thing with xfce that throws off a lot of people is When you load up xfce and it looks that old It's not a selling point aesthetically at all because immediately you go when's the last time anyone did work on this shit because like You most people would assume like because here here's what gets me about xfce So many more people would not just try it but stick with it if they're default color scheme like Not changing a lot of the theme the font like no Default color scheme just a simple tweak to their color scheme And by default the default vanilla xfc would look much better way much way more modern I mean add add in a add in a more modern Icon theme and you're good to go like seriously It doesn't you like it don't you don't just change the panel's position or the I mean they have that little dock dock there along the bottom just add a new icon theme Change the color scheme a little bit and it would look fine, right and and people then people would get into it and use it more so xfc for me is still the best but that default Look and feel is definitely a knock against it and I know like josh in the Comments like oh, I don't I don't like xfc because it does all this stuff with ram I will never choose a desktop environment based on the resource usage because I have 64 gigabytes of ram I don't care. Okay. Use as much usage as you want now. It's axe I just I just said yeah to that like i'm with you there I don't have that much ram, but I I do have plenty of ram I don't think a desktop environment choice should be strictly based off of ram because most people have Well, no, if you if you make if you make like like software choices Simply based off of that one point like I'm not saying you it's in the like in the things that you're considering Saying it's based off of that one thing You'll end up using stuff like tiny like or puppy linux or like tight like damn small linux or whatever it's called Like tiny core and shit. Yeah, you'll you'll end up using like systems that are Much more difficult to use on a daily basis just so you keep your ram usage down and Enlightenment or macha or whatever. Yeah Um, that's that's the that's the thing is like I've used xfc Many many times over the years like if I was not using a window manager right now I'd use be using xfc and I've never once said well. Oh my god. This thing is slow like never seen Oh, yeah Holy crap, you'd have to have a potato of a computer to complain about its speed right even even on my like 12 year old Thinkpad it runs fantastic. Like it's really good. And is it the lightest desktop environment out there? No It's gonna run about, you know, five or six hundred megs out of the box, you know Probably, you know, and that's about the same kde runs nowadays, you know Within a couple hundred megabytes, you know, it's just no desktop environment these days Is that heavy the only outlier still seems to be genom, which uses over a gigabyte Um, because they load everything into memory like literally the entire desktop environment gets floated into memory when you Load genom, so you're gonna use more memory that way But even genom like genom used to be slower Like not only did they use a lot of memory But it all was also really slow because they had those stupid animations now They've sped those things up and it feels faster, you know, so um, yeah, I don't know like I've just I have a video this talk of xfce has now made me think I like, you know what I'm I might I might be installing a distro I'm just going to choose an xfce distro and install it later on today Because I've I've had issues with xfce and monitors before But that's been addressed a lot like that was I will go ahead and say I They've they addressed the issues that they had with monitors Yeah, I did a long time ago. I'm not sure how they would do with high dpi stuff But that's that's why I'm interested in checking it out. Um, that's so yeah, if you use on like a new monitor, that's like, uh, You know Okay, and it's high refresh rate I don't know how well you're gonna do because like I said it is old like it's not like abandoned or anything But they don't update it a lot and it's like one dude Well that I don't know because I'd I'd have to disagree. They do update it I mean, it's not like a lot like just all the fucking time. There's an update There's a couple updates a year, but you know, oh well I mean sometimes they do more like there's there can be years where there's like a good handful of updates And they don't typically do um Like the thing about xfc where you could like really think that they don't ever update it Is just because they don't add new features Like really at all like they do do it But rarely well and and the new features are always like well, yeah We're gonna update from gtk 2 to gtk 3. There's your new feature Like congratulations, you know, and if you're expecting like gtk 4 support anytime soon. No, that's not gonna happen Um, probably by the time gtk 5 comes out. We'll see gtk 4 and xfc That's that's what we're talking about when we're talking about slow updating Also, someone was talking about like, oh like whalen's gonna be in the next version No of xfc. Yeah, it's not gonna be the name. Yeah, he he was being a troll I I would be shocked if whalen ever comes xfc, but if it does come it's going to be when xorber is literally dead like I 100 I would 100 believe that whalen support gets added in xfc by the by the time that Whalen support is an irrelevant term because everything's made for whalen. Yeah, like it has been for years I would not be surprised if they don't switch to whalen until they absolutely have to like literally nothing will run on their desktop environment Like I mean, that's a that's a big thing that they have to do and it's like I said, it's a very small team So, um, yeah, so xfc is my answer and you said gnomes yours I I'm so I'm always constantly surprised that nobody mentions mate, you know what I mean Like does anybody actually use mate? Like I've been looking at mate for the last couple days now because I'm gonna make a video on it and it is good Yes, but it also has it has the same problem xfc has and then it looks old out of the box If you're just installing it on a regular desktop you're using it went to mate. It's very green You know, yeah, like they like that green just a little bit too much for my taste, but Yeah, mate seems to be the desktop environment that always gets all the new boom to features But then nobody uses, you know, the end to me I think that's the biggest problem with mate is like nowadays isn't that it's bad It's out of date. It doesn't I mean even deep like if vanilla mate doesn't look Really that out of date at all. No, it's not horrible. It's not it's not like xfc bad But at the same time mate is one where um, I don't know anybody that actually runs mate I just don't know anybody I've I've seen the stray random comment in a live stream or a youtube video talking about how they use it But I've never there's I have like I mean out of both of our discords I'm pretty sure we could ask people and get a poll and there might be like two or three people who use mate I'd be surprised if it's that many Honestly, um, I mean I I know from other people's podcasts of people who use mate like I know the developer of mate uses That's what that's literally like like the only person I know The absolute for sure Like martin wimpers is the developer behind mate Or one of them. I mean like he's the head guy, right and he uses it That's the only one I can point to and said like I know he uses it Um I can't point to anybody else that I know like I said that actually uses it and I mean some of that it Is I think that it has the buntu stink on it, right? If you want to use mate the best way to do it is to use another buntu because that's that's where all the new features come in And it comes with like mate tweak. It comes with all the cool layouts and stuff like that You don't get that on any other version of mate That I mean you can install those things but you'd have to install them separately If you want the full mate experience you would have to install it on a buntu and as we know People hate a buntu like they really Seriously don't like a buntu anymore. So maybe that's the reason why nobody uses it Um, I don't know like the thing is though like we talked about this earlier when we were talking about linux mint Mint has a mate version Like they do Um, what he uses it like how did they still have this like I would love to know how many people actually use the mate version Of linux mint because it's there like you would have If somebody would ask me a few years ago when they had the kde spin when they had the kde version If they so somebody had asked me, which do you think it's more likely linux mint will drop the kde version or the mate version I would have bet them that they would have dropped the mate version long before the kde version But that's not true. They dropped the kde version I don't think they dropped it because there are few people use not nobody used the kde version But because kde is so hard to maintain but Well, and also it's a bad look when people are running into like bugs and it's solely due to kde like It's not anything that you're doing. Yeah reflects on you. Mint is supposed to be stable and you can't use kde I understand it just it would have at that point It would have shocked me if they had it wouldn't have shocked me. I guess if they would have kept the Um kde version dropped the mate version. So I'd like to know if anybody actually uses the Um the mate version. I'm sure I'm sure there's definitely going to be some Some buddy out there and there's gonna be like a few people like oh, yeah mate is the best ever and I'll fight you over it You know, I mean, I'm gonna cut a bitch, right? It's always gonna be this people always It's just can't be that many like and you know, it's just it's just an interesting thing to me because you always hear about mate But you're like you never hear about anybody using it I mean, well, I mean it's also like one of those things where like it's weird it's weird how like things change too because like mate used to be my favorite desktop like I used to love it and It's not like anything happened. It's just I stopped using it and I haven't really been drawn back like drawn back into it Like I used to be really into it Like I used to use mate on like my like little ace or one net book and I like freaking love that shit and like mate on that was awesome, but Uh, I don't know. I haven't I haven't for one felt like I needed to go back to mate And when I have checked it out over the past like few years It's not like it's been bad, but it's not something that's drawn me in like I'm like, oh I remember these days like it's There's a lot about mate too that like I feel like kind of don't Like make it special anymore Like the multiple panels and the way that the panels like worked and everything was gorgeous back in the day But now there's multiple different desktops that can do the same thing That and you you know in the back of your mind that that layout has been around since gunam too So you know that it's old right and there's something about that layout That just makes it feel like you're using linux from 10 15 years ago You know what I mean? And well, that's not necessarily a bad thing because it definitely does not run like it's 10 or 15 years ago It just kind of looks and feels that way and not even like in a bad way like the xfc initial You know set up that looks like it was 20 years ago And that's a bad thing because it looks like it was 20 like The the mate guys have done a good job of making it look modern But still keeping that gunam to aesthetic and but there's just something about it that you know, I know I don't I don't know, you know, it's it's a little weird It feels like you've regressed in a way like It feel it feels like you've regressed back in time Like in the way that you use it. Well, it's not it's not bad It's just I don't know like there's nothing in I guess it's one of those things where Like it would be awesome if you were really nostalgic about it. Well, yeah, that's exactly If you use it, you know that that's what you're gonna get forever You know, I mean there's there's gonna be no changing of that UI ever because the reason why they use that UI is the reason why the thing exists So they wanted to keep that UI That's the reason why they forked off from gunam too and that's where it's going to stay until all eternity, you know So you whereas like with cinnamon or whatever you always have the idea that they could tweak something You know, I mean they could you know change the panel position or change the icons or whatever or you know, whatever they could do Cinnamon could evolve and look completely different five ten years from now Uh, there there's no chance of mate looking different five ten years from now It's going to look almost exactly the same. They might change the icon. They might change the color scheme But you're gonna have those two panels up and top top and bottom because that's the way it works, right? That's the what they like and that's the way it works. So, um, somebody asked us to talk a little bit about alex cute and alex de Um, I can honestly tell you that I've only used alex cute about for about 30 minutes in an entirety of the last five years um and I'm barely checked it out and um I don't I can't really give you an opinion on something that I haven't used that often, but Maybe it's time for me to take a look at I've heard uh My my thing is is that if you're like the whole idea behind alex cute is that it's a really low resource Desktop environment and the problem I have is that they're pulling down the entire kde stack to do that Um, and I'm not sure. I mean, yeah, it probably doesn't take very much in terms of ram. We already talked about it That doesn't really matter But in terms of like dependencies you just downloaded 600 dependencies that you probably didn't actually need Uh for your desktop environment that would be something that would bother me a little bit like I again Katie's fine. And if you're gonna the thing is if you're gonna download the kde dependencies Just use kde. I mean I guess I mean it probably doesn't have the problems that kde has but I don't know. I mean, there's there's something to be said about minimalism in terms of dependencies You know and kde definitely is not minimalist in terms of dependencies ever Nobody's ever said that. No, no okay So that is uh, that was a good discussion. So let's go ahead and move on to the last section of the podcast which is affectionately known and uh Trademarked as the thingy of the week the thingies of the week. So tyler your thingy of the week My thingy of the week is um theme skins, uh, particularly there's one called metro. That's supposed to like line up with a metro ui Um from like windows and stuff, but um, I really okay. We have more sex bots in chat. Awesome. Um Awesome, just just let me get rid of those okay, um, so Yeah, uh, so steam skins. Yeah, that's what I was talking about Uh steam has like the ability to let you like essentially theme it and uh, I didn't know about this at all Like I was completely oblivious to this and it's really neat. I found the metro one. It's broken It's not great at all, but there's much better ones. Um, so if you didn't know that it's Really cool and it's fun to mess around with for a while if you do play steam a lot Like it's it's not something that's going to change the way that you use steam or anything like that. It's just it's pretty cool and Also, I will go ahead and say I got the notification that I can order my steam deck and Uh, I've got till the 31st to make the order and so later tonight I'm probably going to be making the order and I am very excited for my steam deck Very and there will be videos on my channel. I'm not sure if I'm going to go through with it or not. I haven't decided yet or not I I was questioning it, but as soon as I got the notification, I'm like, yep, I'm getting it Let's do it like I'm all in I'm on it So bad. I'm very excited for it Um, but that's only because I do actually like end up having to go places like a lot and Where I would genuinely like to bring a computer to either be able to do stuff like like make videos or play games or anything and The steam deck i'm very excited about it That's going to be really nice to carry around Yeah, well, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on I haven't got my email yet. So um supposedly sometime in quarter three, but Mine will probably I Was ecstatic too because I didn't think I was going to get mine to like september because like september is like around Like my birthday is in september. And so I figured I would be getting it like I was they're going to be really sad because like I was figuring I would get it like get the notification on On or right before my birthday. So I wouldn't actually get it for my birthday But now I'm going to have the steam deck because that's like That's kind of what I'm wanting for as like my birthday gift is just a steam deck and I'm pretty excited. I'm going to be able to get it cool All right, so my thinking of the week is cool retro terms. So obviously this has been around for a long long time But I never actually used it before and I downloaded it and while I would not say I would ever make this my like default terminal Um, it is cool to play around with so if you don't know what this is It's basically a terminal emulator that allows you to have several different themes Some of them are look like a CR tier so old yellowing CRT monitor. There's a cut like a retro one. There's a futuristic one And it just kind of makes terminal look really cool for a little while. And like I said Probably wouldn't make it my default terminal Just because I don't need all those fancy tricks when I'm just doing regular stuff in the terminal But if you're bored and you want to try out a terminal that makes you look like you're from the 1980s You know, it was actually pretty cool. So It's just it's a neat little thing like in it, you know, it's still around and I'm glad that it is It's one of those things that really has no use but It's just kind of fun to use for a little while and I still have install I play with it every once in a while It's really cool. Anyway, there's some really cool uses for that that I've seen Um, I don't know anyone on here who knows jeff, but like low spec linux laptop He's he's used that for playing like old school text adventure games Which is so cool. Like that is such a awesome use of it It would be interesting to do an entire like rice around it, you know, I mean like make your make your entire Like you have that old retro term and then you have the an old retro poly bar or something, you know, it'd be really cool Um, kind of makes me want to do that Santa probably might might do that now. I don't know. Um, anyway, so that yeah That is those are the things of the weekend. That is the podcast So before we go, I should take anything the current patrons You can support me on patreon at patreon.com slash linux cast all these amazing people support me on patreon youtube So, uh, thank you guys for your support. I truly do appreciate it without you The channel would not exist and I definitely would not be as motivated to make my videos every single day If I didn't have at least one patron and the fact that I have way more than one is just, you know, really awesome So thank you for your support. Thanks everybody for watching We record this live every friday around three o'clock p.m. Each time we were alert running a little bit late this week Um, but we usually bullshit for around an hour and 20 minutes or so if you can't catch us live the replay is on youtube always we never take that down. You can also subscribe to The audio version on any major podcast platform that you want those links will be at the links cast dot org So we'll see you next week We