 I'll be chairing this meeting today. Kate is unavailable. So we're going to get going in just a second. I'd like to call this meeting of the Montpelier Development Review Board to order. It is 7 p.m. May the 17th, 2021. Meredith, I believe this is the point where I turn it over to you to go through your explanation of the remote meeting procedures and processes and related questions to that. So it's all yours. Thank you, Kevin. So I'm going to share my screen for everybody at home and get our fun little slideshow going. So for anybody who is watching this on Orca from home and who is interested in speaking tonight or otherwise getting involved, there's a link here. And this link does not have the spaces that have been causing the problems for everybody. And then you can also call in using this phone number, this meeting ID to actually get into this particular meeting. Anybody who is having problems accessing the meeting, please email me. The email address is right down here at the bottom. If you're actually in the meeting and having issues, please make sure to use the chat function on Zoom to talk to me about that. We're going to try and keep the chat to those technical difficulties, but it will be added to the public record if it's used. So the Zoom meeting is being recorded, as well as streamed live via Orca media. Turning on your video is optional. All public testimony tonight will be taken verbally. And the chat, as I said, the chat function should be used only for troubleshooting or logistics questions. Please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This reduces background noise. If anybody does decide to participate by phone, you can use star six to mute yourself. And that will actually let us know on Zoom that you're muted and not just not wanting to talk. 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If the public is unable to access this meeting, and I get notification of that, which would be via email, most likely, but maybe even via phone, then the meeting will be continued to a time and place certain. If any money is having connectivity issues while they're in Zoom, please try turning off the video function or closing other applications that might be open on your phone or computer. For anybody watching from home who wants to try and look at the documents, or anybody who's having issues with screen share, you can get all of the items for tonight's agenda on this link. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting will be done by roll call vote. I am now going to hand this back over to the vice chair, Kevin. And I would just add as part of the procedures during this time of the COVID-19 situation, that all testimony is taken in open session, although all decisions will be made in deliberative sessions, which is a closed process. And that doesn't matter if it's a very minor application or an extremely detailed and complicated. We're treating them the same just for this period of time until we get back to the usual process. So I think I think we've covered all that unless somebody has anything to add. And if not, I will entertain a motion to approve tonight's agenda. So moved. Okay, by motion by Rob, do I have a second? Okay. And I'm sorry, who did that? Was that Gene? Okay, very good. So we have a motion and a second roll call vote is is taken for the for all decisions. And please raise your right hand when I call your name. Rob, Joe, Claire, Gene. Oh, and Abby. Yeah. Have I covered everybody, Meredith? Yeah, I think so. I think that this is assuming those are all yeses on the right. And I'm thinking the last couple of meetings, we've actually been saying yes, rather than just the raise the hand. Yeah, I think the hand was the introduction. We've been introducing people, but so be it. We'll use yes or no in the in the votes from this point forward. So the agenda is approved. Comments from the chair. The only thing is I'll mention is that I am acting as chair, being the vice chair since they, since the chair is unavailable this evening. And also the next item on our agenda is the review and approval of the minutes from May 5 2021. I just had I think one one sentence may be missing a word or is possibly going to be all together. The roof runoff will run into a rain garden type, maybe structure or feature is missing. What sentence are you on? First paragraph, second, third to last sentence of the town Hill Road. Oh, sorry, I'm looking on the first page. I think it's supposed to be rain type. Like, yeah, it's like a rain garden type plantings maybe. So yeah, I will fix that. Thank you. Okay, with that revision, is there any other comments or corrections? Then I'll entertain the motion. Hold on. I think Claire has something. Oh, Claire. I'm sorry. I was just looking at the second page last sentence that's above other business, where it says the motion passed five to zero, but two people voted no. We've got some background going on or something. There was humming. Cleared up. Thank you, Claire. Okay, with that, with those corrections, I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes. Motion to approve the minutes. Okay, made by Jean. And do I have a second? I'll second that. Okay, and second by Claire. So the roll call vote and just say yes or no from this point forward. Rob? Yes. Joe? Yes. Claire? Yes. Jean? Yes. Abby? Yes. And I also voted yes. So the minutes from the last meeting of May 3rd with revisions has been approved. Okay. Now, moving on to the continuation of the Town Hill Road review of construction for a new family home on steep slopes. And I know there's a bunch of new material to be introduced this evening. So we're going to want to very carefully examine that and make a determination as to its applicability for action tonight or whether action would be after additional testimony, but that remains to be seen. I have not myself have not had a chance to review these new documents in detail. So what I think I would like to do to proceed is first hear from the from the applicant or Meredith, what what you're thinking on this? Do you want to talk first before we get into that? I think, you know, maybe just have me do a quick little summary of where we were at the end of the last meeting and then go to the applicant to talk about that makes sense to me. I yeah, that that that was the hesitation I suddenly had as I was talking about proceeding. I thought perhaps we should hear from you first. So please, just a short summary and we'll get back into detail down the road. So as you said, it's a it's basically a two family home. There's a single family home in an ADU. There are steep slopes involved, but those were mainly down around the road and, you know, on the ditch and then up near the driveway. But there were stormwater concerns with this particular parcel with it being generally sloped. And that's what it seemed to be most everybody's concerns were and the main issue for sending this back to get more detailed input from the Department of Public Works and some some revisions to the plans. We have had those revised plans. And if Matthew needs me to share them, I can or he can share them himself. And then we've had some comments on those revisions from the Department of Public Works that once we get through the revisions, I'm happy to share with you. Both there's some some items that might be more related to DPW permits, but also some things that go straight to the erosion control and stormwater protections. So if you're good, Kevin, I think it makes sense for Matt to Yeah, okay, I just want to say I'm real concerned that we pay enough attention to the details. And so anyway, let's proceed. We can make decisions as as as is appropriate. So Mr. Lewis, would you like to give us the perspective from the applicants viewpoint? Thank you, Mr. O'Connell. I can share my screen to review the three new documents that were provided as an amendment to the existing application with that help. Sure. Okay, guys can see my screen. Okay. Not yet. Nope. Now let's try. Yes. Yeah. All right. So the the first document in question is titled 51421 revised Lewis EPSC plan. That's where the majority of changes have taken place that I believe the DRB would be of interested in. So some of the questions that came out of the previous DRB meeting revolved around comments that had been made by Department of Public Works regarding a lack of visibility or understanding of how water would flow out of the site and whether or not it would impact any, any abutters or or downstream. And there was some consideration given in the previous drive, but it wasn't clear in the drawings that were presented to us exactly how that would go. At least DPW couldn't fully understand it and it asked for more detail. So we revised the drawings and there's the reason there's two sets of drawings. Two of the drawings are actually from the engineer, granny engineering. Those are changes he he made based on the commentary that I provided to him. But they don't necessarily incorporate all the changes that were requested. So I did provide a revision to two of the drawings were in the original package that I believe may indicate more clearly what those changes encompass. So the first two I'll go through are the revisions from granny engineering. And then the last one I'll go through is the one that I provided. So in this drawing, as you can see on the one of the one of the big concerns with was how would stormwater get directed so it didn't impact the adjacent property. And so what was decided is and it's not indicated super clearly on here, but there is a swell that prevents water from running off to the side. This is actually supposed to be indicated as a ditch. A stone line ditched every 10 feet. There's a check dam of larger stone to prevent that runoff from reaching a high velocity to to either cause erosion here, or to, you know, cause a high level of runoff to come into the actual ditch that's adjacent to the road. So that's I think the biggest change that's happened on this drawing with respect to with respect to runoff. You can also see it's indicated here the splash pad. I'm sorry, this is let me try this guy here. That's better. The splash pad is now indicated. So it's a little bit more clear exactly how that that detail is going to get addressed. And those are those are the primary changes that occurred here. The this drawing also I had him add the sewer line and water lines. There was an error made. Unfortunately, I got these drawings on Friday, they haven't had time to make revision to it. There's actually an existing water shut off right about here, the almost at the center of the drive right on the right at the edge of the right away. And so that's what we're planning to connect to with the water line and it'll be a single water line. You'll see that in the other drawings. Second drawing is sorry, second drawing is the revised slopes analysis. You can see not a huge amount of difference from the previous submittal of the majority of the steep slopes are still in the indicated area, which as of today are considered steep slopes. So not a lot of changes with respect to that. The one thing that I did want granny engineering to add, which was not indicated. So so the submittal that I provided consists of revisions to two sets of drawings, one of them is this first page, the submittal is just to correct an error in the in the the topographic lines and the elevations that are shown. So they now match the drawings that granny provided and that the survey are provided. It was just an error, my part setting the data for the drawing set. The second drawing is the one where you'll see actual changes. Let me just zoom in here smidge. So this is a stormwater erosion control. Detail. If I could get it to zoom in. Joe won't. There we go. So you can see the same kind of idea. I don't have the tools in my disposal like granny engineering does. So it's a little bit harder for me to illustrate. Hopefully the check dams made it clear and those will show up on our revised version of the drawing that what I'm proposing is that we you know, we get conditional approval today based on some minor changes that need to be made based on feedback that we received from Department of Public Works. So what Zach had stated was that he wanted to see this indicated as a ditch. So I've indicated here is a stone line ditch to contain six inch stone at 10 foot intervals. So that would be nominal three inch stone lining the ditch with check dams every 10 feet consisting of larger stone. It also indicates here the stormwater flow in the pervious driveway itself to show that it's not spilling over the edge of this slope here. By design, it's intended to flow down following the contours of the driveway itself, and then exiting at the bottom here. Of course, it does retain a significant amount of water itself, but we're to exceed its carrying capacity. This is the direction that would go. And so that's, I think that's pretty much it for all right. So the utilities, this is what I provided to Don to update his drawings. So there is only a single connection to the utilities. It's just the one six inch tie into the eight inch sewer line. And then it shows here the one inch water supply coming into existing city water disconnect all the utility connections between the two prop the two residences will be handled within the physical dwelling itself within the residence. I think the other question was around a foundation drain. I don't know if we had included that in the previous submittal, but that is indicated in these drawings, that there's a foundation drain that runs from the accessory dwelling in it out and towards this area in here near the main area flow next to the road right away. I think that's it. Unless there's anything, I mean, if you have any questions about changes that have been made, feel free to ask them. Matthew, thank you for taking the time to demonstrate and satisfy the request. I mean, this is exactly what we're looking for these all those specs and with details. Just appreciate it. Thanks, Jane. I just had a couple questions. First of all, so this song is plans you got up right now. Those distributed are these just for conversation purposes. These were provided at four o'clock this afternoon, and I'm sorry for the lateness of the art, but I did try to get them as quickly over as I could once I saw Zach's commentary and the intention was to try to address some of those in an early draft. As I mentioned, the final submittal for plan approval through DPW would have these revisions applied to both this drawing set, which is part of the public record, but also to the submittal that Grenier Engineering is working on. So DPW only got to see these at four o'clock this afternoon, or I'm a little confused on that. No, so DPW has reviewed these and provided commentary, this drawing here and this drawing here. And I don't know, Meredith, if you wanted to walk through the commentary, and then I could describe if needed, you know, what the response was. This is a response to some of the questions that he had or comments that he had that are going to provide direction to to the engineer. Kevin, would you like me to step up here on this one? Yeah, I would. So, yeah, so the first, the first two drawings that Matthew showed were circulated to DPW on Friday. I got them to you as soon as I could today when I saw them because I, you know, just on Fridays. Let me just say right at that point, I didn't see them until right before the meeting. So, I mean, you know, four o'clock in the afternoon is not exactly a lot of time to review. Yeah, so these, so, but DPW had these first two from Grineer last Friday. And so Zach Blodgett, who reviewed the first set from the initial application, was able to go back through them. And you know what, do you want me to just read them or do you want me to have read them and have them on the screen? I actually think I have them on screen right here. Okay. I can zoom in a smidge. I know it's not easy for, I can't read it when it's on a zoom call and it's... You do that and I'll read them. But that way, if anybody can see them, it helps. So, the first was that the grass swale indicated on the site plan, right, so the document from Grineer says it's a grass swale, should be a stone ditch with check dams based on the slope of the ditch. The approximate slope of the ditch is around 13%. So then Matthew's addressed that with his most recent document that I wasn't able to circulate around making sure it's clear it's a stone ditch. And the second bullet was based on slope of the ditch. The stone check dams should be permanent and not temporary. He also says he would like to see the proposed swale connect to the existing ditching, so that's the existing ditching I think along the road, and show how the two ditches will connect together. Department of Public Works would prefer to have only one water connection and that's really something that's a DPW permit issue. It's not really something we look at in zoning, but Matt has addressed that. Same with the water shut off. Showing connection detail for the sewer connection, again that's a DPW permit issue. Then stabilized construction entrance should be required for construction. So that's an erosion control matter, and it's something that is one of the standard erosion control practices that we hold projects to when the erosion control provisions are triggered. Construction should follow state of Vermont low risk erosion handbook. Again, we've incorporated a lot of those provisions, but that's something that we could definitely include as a very specific condition on approval. Silt fence should be placed along contours and perpendicular to runoff. So clearly DPW wants some more silt fence detail before they have final sign off on it. And then his final comment was that the stone check dams, so this is in that ditch, should use a mixture of two to nine inch stone, and I think that's what Matt has already commented on. Okay, so I guess a couple of questions of a general nature. Matt, are there anything in what DPW has brought forth here that you have any difficulty with or a problem with? No, I think going back to the drawings that I tried to incorporate those comments on, the only, I think the piece that will be probably hardest to indicate in a drawing, not so hard to achieve on site is showing how the flow actually, it's not flowing uphill here, but it's flowing across the contour before it intersects. That's something that I'd asked the engineer to address in the first set of drawings, and I think they missed the message as well as you could see the silt fence is not the same shape. So those are things that I was trying to get him to focus in on, so it did take a while to get the drawings. I guess they're really busy, which is why I wanted to provide these. I can react immediately to these questions, but because I've already submitted engineer stamp drawings, his drawings and my drawings need to be harmonized, these are the public record, but they can't conflict with each other. That's the detail you could work at? Yeah. Yeah, so board members, anybody have any comments, observations? Yeah, I don't know. I just have a little bit of a concern here with the two different steps and drawings in an early example. One of them shows one foot contours, and one of them shows two foot contours and we're showing grading, so I don't know if you could address that. I can revise mine to show two foot contours. So the difficulty I've got, Rob, I'm using a point file that was given to me by an engineer, and I'm using a tool called Revit, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Revit is not CAD, so my first mistake probably was just to generate topo lines to begin with. I did it so I would understand how the house would fit into the lot, and when I submitted it, it kind of cats out of the bag, right? So they're a part of the public record now. They're not really as representative or as accurate or as good, I guess, as the ones that come from Grenier, right? He's got civil CAD, so I'm sure you're familiar with the tool, but it's really hard. I can't draw a curved line, for example. Everything wants to make jagged edges. I can make it two foot contours, if that would help. But I think it would be difficult to be able to put one on top of the other and make a match perfectly, just because they're different software packages and Revit handles. No, I think you've gone above and beyond. I maybe I think that my suggestion is just depending on what number of the board is that what you've done really should just be treated as figures for explanation and conversation, and that the plans of record are to be the Grenier engineering plans. I think that what you did is incredibly helpful, but I think that I look at the requirements for steep slopes, which is kind of like what triggered us to get here. And I think all my concerns are relieved by just looking at the Grenier engineering plans and what you did is wonderful for conversation purposes. Thank you. Anybody else? Just so you know, the screen that I have in front of me right now, I'm seeing the contour plan and I'm seeing some of the members of the DRB and the others, but I've got five people here. I don't know how I fix this. Pat, can you just take off your screen at this point? Absolutely. And again, we can open it back up. There we go. Okay, that's a little bit better. So anybody else? I'd like to make sure that we hear from the phrasers or anybody else who wants to be heard. Hey, Kevin. This is Abby. I do have a question about how the runoff from the drive connects in with the ditch at the bottom between the property and the road. Do you want me to share a screen again so I can explain? Yes, go ahead. Something that helps explain it. I mean, there's the arrows, but we might need a little more. Yeah. So if I go back to the drawings and again, this is what I want to be indicated on Grenier's drawings. You can see the storm water flow. I hate this tool. I'm sorry, guys. Go. Share screen again. Oh, right. Share screen. Let's click the share button. I'm used to it automatically doing it in teams. Sorry. Different tool. I got somebody's screen saver here. Yeah, we got your desktop. Oh, there we go. My whole screen. That's what we wanted. Let's try that again. Unreal. There we go. Is that better? Yes. That was the coast of Ireland, by the way. Great. That was a really amazing sculpture. That was balancing rocks on the beach one day. That was that was a challenging one. You did that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wow. It lasted all like 10 minutes and the breeze blew it over. Anyway, so the intersection here, this is where any overflow would come out. So it does end up in the same ditch at the road. Right? Yeah. So ultimately, any stormwater system at some point is going to overreach its capacity and overflow. How big you size it, again, this would involve more in-depth analysis than was asked for in the previous meeting. But I can't tell you how many, I think it's approximately three and a half inches of rain can be held in this structure right here. So it would take a pretty significant event. And I know we've had them. We've had them here in Barry. I used to live in Montpelier and we had a waterfall going through our basement at one point. You know, we've had five, six-inch rain events. But this will, the majority of your severe rain events, it's going to capture that and prevent it from overflowing. Abby, does that answer your immediate question? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, ultimately, ultimately, DSPW has to be happy with how that fits together. So I want to make sure that, could we have full screen back again? Sorry, keep forgetting. There we go. Yeah, is there anybody here who would like to be heard this evening on this application? Besides, there's the phrasers, of course, and anybody else? Mr. Higgins is on for this. So if either of them want to speak up, you guys can raise your hands. Sure, you've been sworn in previously, I believe, so we don't need to go through that again. So who would like to be heard? Ann, you're on mute. Mr. Higgins, hold on one second. I think the chair called on Ann Frazier. So give her a word. Ann Frazier is first, but we first have to figure out how to get Ann off of mute. Yeah, I can't do it for her, unfortunately. I don't think I can. Yeah, no, depending on how people sign in, sometimes I can undo it and sometimes I can't. I think, Bill and I think you might need to go back out and come back in. Can you try that? Okay, we'll be patient. We did it. Okay, we did it. Good. Awesome. And we didn't have to call one of our kids. Exactly. Yeah, I don't understand all the technicalities where our driveway is right across from Matt where your driveway is going to be. So that just remains our lingering concern is, I understand there's a little bit of an exception made normally at 1245. Oh, well, the distance of the driveway. The distance of the driveways. But it's more of the runoff than the distance, actually. It's just so, you know, neither of us are particularly technical, but watching the, so I think the question that Abby just asked was really mostly relevant to us because if it's coming down and then there was a sort of an arrow, here's where it's going to go. And it sort of pointed right at our driveway. So I think, you know, and as I said, our next door neighbor had a very significant damage from runoff coming off that hill. Not if you do with Matt, but just we have had those types of things here. So that's our concern. You know, as I mentioned last time, I have not talked to anyone from DPW and I won't. If you all feel like that is good enough, you know, I will follow your lead on that. That's our biggest concern is that the water is just going to come rushing right down to our basement. Well, I'm hopeful that public works is taken all of that very seriously. And Meredith, in your conversations with DPW, has this specifically come up? Not necessarily specifically the water flowing across the road. I mean, that's something that they're trying to avoid. And Zach's initial comments from April 30th had a note about potentially requiring better deeper ditching on the uphill side of Town Hill Road there so that the water actually stays in the ditch as it continues down beyond Matt's. Right. I mean, that would be my concern. You just have to think bubbling over, you know, after you get the three and a half inches and now oops, it's four inches this time. Yeah. And I think Matt, if I'm correct me if I'm wrong, I think you, I can't remember if you, I think at the last meeting you said that you'd be willing to ditch that more if it was needed to meet the standards for DPW. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And those will be how much more that needs to be ditched would be something that's in the purview of the DPW permit that comes after this one. You know, because they're going to, they're responsible for making sure that it doesn't wipe out their culverts further downstream as well. So that's the city's vested interest. So can you please just from the standpoint of process tell me or tell us what actually happens at DPW after we've done our thing with it? I mean, we're going to be referring to DPW a lot. I mean, you know, there being that this is such a water intensive site, DPW is going to have to be very involved. Yeah. Well, and that's one reason there's been back and forth several times back on this particular project. You know, there, I can't tell you in detail because I don't work in that office, but once ours once a zoning permit is approved, then the next stages, the DPW permits, they can start getting even more in depth on more details on exactly how the water is slowed with a specific type of rock as it comes out of a culvert and exactly how deep the ditch needs to be to match up the flows that the culvert under the new driveway is designed for to then not overwhelm the lower culvert or jump out. Like that is part of the construction and access permit process. And that's one reason that Zach has needed information from Matthew at this point as to where these flows go and to make sure that that new ditch that goes down the western side of the property has those rocks in it to slow the water and to make sure it's a stone-lined ditch I think so that it's not eroding out the sides of it because you don't want it eroding out the sides and then flowing over to the nearby properties you need to control that water to then make sure it goes down into places where it can be absorbed or like in the driveway or get into that ditch where it can be controlled. DPW doesn't want the water flowing across Townhill Road because then Townhill Road can get washed out and that's more work for them and issues for them. They have a vested interest in making sure that the roads don't get washed out which means controlling that water and not letting it run across the road. Yeah and this discussion we're having now is part of the public record which should become part of DPW's review. Yeah they'll take you know they will that this is all under one sort of umbrella development permit but the DPW permits our permits even the building permit will all be in one place so that people can cross-reference everything and you know Zach will be the person probably who's doing the construction and access permit because he's already familiar with this project. Mr. Higgins did you have did you want to speak to this? You are on mute by the way. Now you're not. I just wanted to mention to Matt that the large pine trees on his northern border have now been removed too I don't know whether that will have any impact on his plan. Yeah they saw some wind damage on those trees and they called it called me and said can we take the trees down and drop them on your property? And I said if you're going to do it now's the time because it's not going to be as easy to do once there's a house there. So I think they took the opportunity. They do get a lot more solar exposure I think that's what they were looking for at their house with those in the longer there. Yeah there's also our neighbor people who just purchased bogey and I'm trying to remember. Okay, last name. I just met him for the first time the other day. Anyway they purchased the property at 80 Town Hill Road just about a month and a half ago and they were having the same conversation about those big five big pine trees and I think my wife likes those more so I don't know we'll see what happens with them but they were pretty trees. Yeah I just wanted to make sure you were aware. Oh yeah no they asked for sure. Now they're trying to figure out how to get the trees out because it's too wet. Okay thank you. Anybody else like to be heard on this application? Board members? I have one quick question from Meredith. Oh go ahead someone else. Claire was just getting ready here. I'll ask her to go ahead. Claire you're on mute. I was curious was there an expectation there'd be more information about the permeable driveway that sits kind of at the landing spot at the garage entrance and I was also curious about what happens with the runoff. It seems like the section of land kind of over on the side of the driveway that leads kind of the curves up. That runoff has been addressed with that stone lined dam or stone lined ditch and then I was just curious about the runoff that basically comes off of the front lawn onto the driveway and where that goes. Matt do you want to uh I can't should I share screen again see if I can get it right finally on the third try. You might guess. So runoff from the front of this house is going to land right around here. It will follow the contours down. At that point it's going to cross this section of driveway at least and then it will start flowing this way down into this side of the culvert. So anything that's captured pretty much from here over it's going to land here it's crowned so actually a lot of this is going to land on this side of the culvert. The remainder is either going to flow here into the previous drive or if it's in this area it's going to flow down and into the ditch adjacent to the road. There is a there's a five inch and we've specced five inches of grade between the crown of Townhill Road and above where this culvert is. So that the driveway you know this you're not going to get water flowing directly across and then onto the road. The intention is for that flow to the majority of it's going to come down this way but then the crown here some of it's going to flow kind of not almost uphill won't be uphill but relative to all the other contours it's going to flow towards this end of the culvert. Great thank you and I guess Meredith is that covered in the access permit that kind of crowning and just assurance that the runoff isn't going to come just like straight down the driveway down into Townhill Road. Yeah and that'll be that's part of the the dipping down into the driveway I think is part of the VTRAN standards as well. It is. The DPW will apply as part of the construction and access permit they'll get into the nitty gritty of that and our access provisions mandate that the zoning approval is that the access will be in compliance with the Department of Public Works access standards as well as the VTRAN standards so they're just incorporated in here and I think that you have somewhere on the drawings from Rainier I think there was a you know the VTRAN standard was referenced and so there's there's a if for some reason something were constructed in a way that did not comply with the VTRAN standard it would be a zoning permit violation as well as the DPW permit violation. Yeah thank you. It could go back to full screen place. Stop it there you go. Okay Rob did you have something you wanted to address? Yeah just a quick question for Meredith I just didn't know the prior subdivision this was part of the subdivision and no where's any anything that needed to be addressed it was pre-zoning immobiliar. There weren't there weren't any conditions or anything about the prior subdivision that came into play in us and it wasn't the the subdivision did not involve enough parcels to trigger anything else I mean we're not doing the subdivision now but the subdivision envisioned this as a parcel with access from Town Hill and you know that that that approval also would not have set in stone where anybody's access or anything like that would be that would all have to be under our current regulations. Yep so Meredith refresh my memory please with regards to did we go through the criteria last time we did so we were that's what I thought yeah so the purpose of this testimony this evening was to respond to the concerns and questions we had at the close of the previous meeting where we did go through the criteria so now what we want to do is if we become satisfied with what we have here or with what we have here in additional discussion we would go we would close this as a public meeting and then take that up in deliberative session. Okay I'm sorry folks I'm just trying to get my head around this. No worries it was the the exact thing that was voted on last time was whether or not people felt they had enough information to make a decision and there were quite so many questions still about storm water that a majority said that they didn't that's right so I don't I don't believe we need to go through the criteria again we've done that we had a request for additional material so I'm going to ask if there's additional information people wish to discuss anybody board members non-board members uh and had her hand up and oh now just a quick question where will the construction entrance be Matt yeah I'm sorry I had my window open I didn't want to go off and mute with the cars driving by that was a pack of motorcycles my friend yeah it gets loud up here sometimes um so uh yeah so the construction that that drive is the first thing that's going to get that access is the first thing that's we're going to get built the alternative when we first bring equipment on to site we're going to use the the shared access so like the first backhoe and the front end loader are going to come in I think they'll be able to do a lot of the ditching just like sitting up on that you know how it is across from you there's like it's kind of steep they have to grub those thumps out first so grubbing the stumps and ditching will happen first then they'll lay that culvert down and then they're going to we're going to have um we're going to bring in fill crushed gravel to to make a decent pad that's not going to erode um because if we use the fill on site it'll just end up washing everywhere um so once that's done then any like concrete pump trucks um deliveries of like the the ICF forms lumber delivery so all that stuff would happen through the main driveway they wouldn't be able to get a concrete pump truck in through the that that's shared drive it's so the driveway where it's scheduled to be permanently is where yeah basically yeah once once they get the initial site done and they get the silt fence up and that that culvert in place all the other traffic is going to come in through that main driveway um but I don't you know we're trying to make provisions so we don't have to dig up the road um and that's something I wanted to mention Samuel I have a letter actually to all you guys it's on my printer it's hoping to leave off on Sunday but I do you do see how there's um there's trenching that's going to have to get done for the sewer connection that's in that right away sand between our properties and I don't know if that when they draw that line if it's going to run into one or more of those trees it's like right on the property boundary so there may be one or two of those that will also have to come down but that would be it so I just wanted to bring that up um because that's yeah hopefully and they are going to have to ditch into that into that right away so there will be some loud excavation happening but I'll like I said you'll have my contact information I'll try to get your phone number so I can tell you when they're coming assuming everything goes well with permitting yeah that shouldn't be any problem I already took down a couple of trees here so that may help we'll see we'll see what goes yeah okay this we're all set there I would entertain a motion to close the public meeting on this application and uh at the end of our meeting this evening to adjourn to the deliberative session specifically for this application so moved second I have a motion and I'm sorry who's saying she was saying you a second okay is there any discussion being that there is none all those in favor of the motion I'm going to go through a roll call Rob yes Joe yes Claire yes Jean yes and Abby yes and I also vote yes so that motion passes and we will retake this application up in deliberative session at the close of the regular meeting this evening okay thank you all for participating and we'll move on to the second item on our agenda this evening which is 393 gill gould hill road an informal review and Merritt tells me that it's that it's less formal than sketch so it's pretty informal and I will turn this over Meredith to enlighten us as to what we're what we're looking at all righty um so this is a little odd because it's not something that would normally have a sketch plan in a final review it's an application to build a large barn slash building um that involves steep slopes so it's going to need to come before the drb there was a planning department issue with notifying abutting property owners um so the newspaper public notice went out but the mail notices didn't get all dealt with properly um and so we really didn't feel like we could just continue it completely to the next meeting in case someone showed up um and because the applicant was all prepared to go we thought that doing an informal review before the drb so that you would have a chance to look at the application and um give mr. vacade some input on what your big picture thoughts were so that in this three-week break we're going to have before the first june meeting if he needs to make some changes even just based on this big picture review he can do it um we were able to get comments first-round comments from curt modica um the assistant director deputy director for department of public works on this and we were able to send that to justin um and if if the board members want i can read those out for them um but i think that before that it would be really good for justin to give you some perspective on what what he's he's wanting to do here um and if anybody wants me to share screen let me know yeah but i i definitely would like you to share screen i'm not being able to pull it up from the material that was out on the public website i don't know if anybody else is having that problem might just be me um but yes let's have a look at what we're looking at hold on did this application packet come up that i'm scrolling yes i see it now all right i'm going to go to i think the site first or justin let me know what you want me to scroll to uh meredith i think yeah that should that should work as a starting point okay so go ahead no i'm sorry justin you're you're the owner in the applicant here that's correct okay that's correct i think kevin does he have to be sworn in no this is informal this is uh we're just talking it's like coffee hour right on excellent all right a little late for coffee hour in my book but we'll take it anyway so just to orient everybody you can see the current residents there with the trucks sort of in the upper right hand corner there is a long switchback driveway that extends down and then back up to gould hill road um we've lived this property for about seven years now it's a 10 acre parcel with about one acre on the gould hill side and nine acres that abut north branch park across a small class three river or stream the barn is going to go and yep thank you for highlighting that meredith is is right there so it is a monitor barn monitor barns are typically two story so it has a first drive-in level which will come right off of the right off of the drive and then there'll be a top level which in this case will be a woodshop for myself it has a what would you consider a walkout basement which is actually where the steep slopes come come into play um in this yes we're taking that down there so as you can see those double doors there is a drive-in area and on the back side there that would actually that's actually open on the back side where I have a I have a tractor and it will drive in uh into that spot but that hillside there is fairly steep um and hence why we're why we're talking today so where would this be if I'm dropping on gould hill road at u 30 if you get off of if you get off of you gould you get on gould hill road from elm street yeah you're gonna go about you're gonna go about a third of the mile so you're gonna get up to the gravel portion you're gonna do a couple little turns and there's gonna be a house that kind of dips you'll see you would see it if you look down the hill so um steve seats lives across the street from me if you're familiar with steven uh thank you I know exactly where you're talking about right okay i live right across the street i am now orian sorry perfect yep perfect so we're stuck kind of in a little belly um that's where the house is um and you know from gould hill all the way down to the river that is on our property it's a fairly um it's a fairly good slope all the way down that way yeah yep sure is so um we did have some comments from um dpw both all of which i think are reasonable um in terms of their scope there's a little bit of silt fence fence moving and then making sure that the any storm water runoff doesn't go on to uh steven irena goulds um goulds property which is the one we abut to on the south i think go back to your screen anytime but i wanted to make sure we could see each other for questions that was that was a good intro meredith so uh what what journey has it been on uh in in the dpw process at this point so um so monica deputy deputy director has seen the full package of plans um and he had really three main comments um the silt barrier location as justin said that um he wanted that adjusted um and that the drain line that's shown on the plans he had concerns that it would impact the joining property so they'd really prefer that that drain line just head towards the back of the parcel towards the southeast um and then the other big comment he had was that there wasn't a specific grading plan per se that really showed all the different grading work um submitted with the application package but that um because this is a more rural neighborhood um and that there's no risk to municipal infrastructure and or private property once that drain line is moved that dpw didn't feel like they needed to review one um that they didn't need a more detailed grading plan at this point for this project especially because i mean it's not yes there's some impact on steep slopes but it's more that the the barn is being set into the steep slopes with a little bit of grade change to to make it match in and what potential impact could it have on the next door neighbor uh the grades itself not really i think it was more the the storm water okay and so and so dpw does not have a concern with with its impact on the ceases property no no um so this is this is this is good this is good i mean i want to make sure we have that kind of commentary for the for the potential applicant so you know because that would be the kind of thing that could really throw a project off if if right if you were not clear going into it well and the the package um for anybody who didn't get a chance to review it the package does have engineers stamped um site plans slopes analysis engineered foundation drawings um all of those check boxes are all here yeah reviewed it it's pretty well detailed and i enjoyed i enjoyed actually looking at the at the engineering designs pretty good well we already have also all of the uh items needed for the building permit as well i pulled that all out of here so you wouldn't have to see all of those details as well it's it's a there's a lot of information in here okay so justin this is a this is a very informal yep review with chan we're just trying to get commentary that would be useful as you right develop your project um so is there board members anything further you'd like to like to leave the applicant with no i have a couple i have a couple comments or questions um player please go ahead hi justin um i had um a couple questions about the existing vegetation and any landscaping plans and revegetation of any cleared areas and then the other question was about how far away it is from the stream yes so okay so in terms of existing vegetation um there is some random bushes on that slope um that will be removed in the process of of the barn installation we've tried very carefully to position the barn in between an existing ashtray and an existing uh red maple and so the excavator and the company has assured me that those can stay so we've tried to keep those in place as much as possible the grading will be in sort of in in line with what's there and then hopefully we'll be replanning with you know um grasses and shrubs that are native and local to the area to to keep that all that grading in place the the back of the barn is i would posit um a hundred plus feet to the river at least if not more okay thank you yeah i guess i was i was curious because it seemed like dpw's comments were about um with erosion impacts on neighboring properties but i was thinking kind of more on what would the impacts be like on the stream that was down down below yeah it would it would actually be running so any stormwater runoff um it whatever comes currently through there runs down into my yard and then across um you sort of just i guess it sort of flows back in through the wooded areas that's back there there's a couple of um elevation drops that it would have to go through but honestly i mean it's very dry back there so i think it seeps in and then finds its way underground to the river such as it goes based upon my current experience thanks sure so if there's um nothing else will move on anybody i just wanted to say something real quick i just heard you say that you're you're taking pains to save an ash tree and i just wanted to know ask if you take into account that that ash tree probably isn't long for this world uh given the emerald ash bar and its presence in vermont now yeah we have we have a we have about four or five very large ash trees on the property that we've sort of held on to i had uh link and earl centers from sylvan tree care over um to look at them and his opinion was they just sort of wait until the emerald ash borer actually gets to them um before they take them down it's fortunate because the the distance between the barn and our house is significant so there's plenty of spot plenty of space for us to drop it in a way that would be safe and won't impact either structure so okay great but my wife would really hurt me if i tried to take it down right now i understand there's a lot of very nice white ash trees which have have bit the dust or going to be right very soon yep unfortunate okay so well justin i hope we've been helpful absolutely and thank you very much for your time this evening hope you'll take care you're welcome bye thank you justin yep thank you Meredith bye bye so Meredith i seem to have lost my agenda among the 20 or 50 uh screen screens i have open here oh wait here it is no uh let me give you one second i want to send the drb's deliberative session link out to you all um i was just gonna send that and then well i'm just trying to i want to look at the agenda so i know other business is next it's other business it's summer schedule and next meeting date is what's coming up next okay well just bear with me i'm sorry i'm okay a little bit of a commudge and i really like to see what i'm getting into um the next meeting days in june 7th i'm not gonna find it hold on hold on i can just share it um so that you can everybody can see it give me one minute i've got my meeting packet but again scroll up to the top right so we're yes very good okay so there we go we're past number eight other business summer schedule so Meredith would you like to speak to that i would um so we'll be sending out an email to all the drb and drc members about this um but i wanted to make sure i brought it up tonight um the big calendar that we sent around in january or maybe even december for this year's meeting schedule has an error on it um the first july meeting will not be monday july fifth that is the holiday for july fourth so all of city hall bill will be shut down so we'll be meeting the following that the immediately following tuesday tuesday july 6th so that's a correction you'll get an email but i want to make sure we talked about it um and then the other thing to note is that we have decided to cancel the first meeting of august so the august second uh meeting will not be held um so that in my part so i can take a vacation um but because i did a little bit of a break by that um but so that will get everybody else a break so that you can plan time away to um so we'll just have one meeting in august but this will i'll follow up with an email okay and and uh can you give us just sort of a general sense of when we might actually be um meeting together again yep so um what we're what the city is thinking about is that probably july um would be the earliest that meetings would be in person again um city council is going to go to in-person meetings is my understanding other committees and boards can decide if they're going to go completely in person or do a hybrid where members stay remote but i'm there in person for any applicants or members of the public that want to show up um and so you know the thought is keep thinking about this over the next three weeks and it might be a you know the june seventh meeting during deliberative session board members have a vote or discussion or we can talk about it in deliberative session tonight a little bit um and then have a have a decision on if the board wants to go back full in person um or or otherwise um it's going to be that the board's decision on what they want to do and what members feel comfortable doing um you know i don't know i don't know how many how many members are fully vaccinated or not um that comes into play and how we would manage meeting in person right um because if there are some people who were either high risk or um not getting vaccinated then they there would probably be master requirements there it's it's a logistical question right so you're saying you're saying that we could actually as a board be voting on this in by june seventh yeah potentially or the second meeting yeah okay well you know it's coming right up so we've got three weeks before our next meeting um but it's something to think seriously about during those three weeks absolutely okay um again my agenda has uh has flown but i don't need it i don't need it there's nothing else on it right just the job there's nothing else about rob seems to have a question oh yes rob well i just would say since we're all on the air i will be uh fully vaccinated by the next meeting and i would encourage everybody uh to go get uh go get vaccinated um it's uh yeah but that's not all i had to say um well i now now i can't help but editorialize a little bit i mean it's such a relief folks i mean you know when you press when you get past that second shot in two weeks it's like yes um so um no i just want to uh to just uh since the public's here and whatnot um you know i think when i first joined the drb i uh you know made made it clear that i work um you know for an industry that uh you know under under some instance may uh become before the board and be involved i've changed jobs i'm now working for um you know vhp engineering firm with offices in uh mumpiliar and farlington um and if i were ever to feel i was even remotely close to uh um involved in an application that came before the board i would um you know let everyone know so i just wanted to disclose that oh thank you yeah thanks rock so i'll entertain a motion to close the public session and uh move to a deliberative session second motion sorry we motion to close the session okay motion from gene and do i have a second second that can by joe all those in favor well i'm gonna go through the role again claire yes abby yes rob yes gene yes go yes and i also vote yes so see you all and uh and marith you're gonna send us a link here in the next minute or two yeah i sent it at 809 um feel free to give me a call if you don't get that email so okay i'm gonna i'm going to ask that we reconvene at it's now 815 at 820 okay five minutes folks thank you thank you you have my phone number right yes okay great