 Welcome everybody. It's Senate Education for September 1st and we are still meeting remotely via the COVID emergency. Today we have two different issues. The first having to do with pre-K during the emergency and essentially labor shortages and things we might do to alleviate that as well as related topics and then we have some representatives from Outright Vermont who would like to speak with us about cuts that have been proposed by the administration in their funding and Outright Vermont is maybe crosses several jurisdictional boundaries but we have always had them into Senate Education and I'm interested to hear what they have to say about their funding. Just a heads up and I'll reiterate this later but we obviously are not a committee with a checkbook so what we what we tend to do is make recommendations either for good or for ill and pass those up to the Appropriations Committee and that's what I imagine happening in this situation. Okay with that said I'd like to go to Bill Yates if I could who is the data administrator district testing coordinator at Hartford School District and this meeting began with an email that he sent to Senator Allison Clarkson who contacted me and she and I discussed it briefly and we thought that the situation Mr. Yates was pointing to was worth looking into and he had some coherent suggestions about how those might be handled so what I've tried to do is ask a couple of parties from the pre-K world here today Allie Richards and Meg Baker to see if they can respond to the situation in general but also the suggestions that Mr. Yates was putting forward. So Mr. Yates welcome and feel free to start wherever you like and with the idea that you would dovetail eventually with your suggestions. Well thank you for this opportunity to speak with you all. I mean I come at this issue from a couple different perspectives one most importantly as a parent of a preschool student also as a school board member of Windsor Southeast Supervisor Union and the data administrator for the Hartford School District which is and as you realize it is in Hartford Vermont and that really affects the towns that I am on a school board on which is Windsor and West Windsor because Windsor and West Windsor have very few preschool seats within their borders. Most students go out of those towns to go to preschool and one of the areas is of course White River Junction which is part of Hartford. What has happened in the preschool that my son goes to is that the preschool teacher which I'm sure has happened throughout Vermont is a retired teacher. When the public pre-K law act 166 was passed it created opportunities for retired teachers to continue teaching in a limited 10 hour week setting at private preschools. Many of these retired teachers are as you understand are at risk of COVID-19 and this woman who I actually know I taught both of her sons in fifth grade in Pompford, Vermont and both of them are in their 30s so you can imagine this woman's age and rightfully so her family doesn't want her to go to this pre-K and which is Aurora Daycare and teach her required 10 hours a week for Aurora to offer pre-K kindergarten. The area also contains Green Mountain Daycare which they have lost their pre-K teacher as well. Green Mountain is the largest daycare pre-K, private pre-K within the area and they can't find someone to replace that. This happened at the beginning of of the COVID last March. They lost their pre-K teacher thus they lose all their town funding from the area towns for pre-K instructions. The act 166 was passed. And what of course has happened at the Hartford School District that the public preschools don't have the room. They don't have the seats to absorb these students plus the fact that many of these parents like myself find it difficult to function within the public preschool option because most of them other than I believe Dotham Brook at Hartford don't have a daycare portion to their preschool and so this really affects working parents because it's next to impossible to find a position in which there is pre-K and daycare in Vermont. I'm trying to fix that in my position as a school board member but it's a long process. Do you mean some of the solution? If I could just clarify by when you say they don't have a daycare option you mean that they have limited hours and you're looking for an eight-hour full full workday option? Yes most public preschool options not the private the public. Most of them are either in the morning or in the afternoon. Some schools like Dotham Brook is where I am actually based at is a good example because they provide a room for Green Mountain Daycare to provide a daycare for those students who are not within their pre-school class within Dotham Brook. As I understand it from in this area there are very few schools that provide that option. Thus many parents have chosen to send their children to private pre-Ks that provide the daycare option as well so the need to transport is not there and you know your students at a safe place. The option from my son for an example he has gone to a roar since he was three months old so continuing with him there was just the logical option. His daycare is roughly a mile and a half from the school that I work in and I love the facility. Now pre-school is not an option and it's really not an option for me to find some place else to send them because really there isn't any place else because pre-school teachers are at a premium right now. Teachers in general are a premium right now. Finding replacement teachers within Vermont is next to impossible. Two of the suggestions I made were in the letter. One other option has come up. If you would I'm the only one or maybe one other person has read the letter. Could you just detail those suggestions for people? Sure. The first suggestions I made was to require home school districts to include pre-K and pre-K and under students who attend private facilities to be able to participate in that school's remote learning opportunities at the preschools that they attend to. One issue with this is that I know at Hartford there is no remote only school options for preschool students so residents of Hartford would find that very difficult to make happen. The other option was to allow for private preschools to apply for a waiver from requiring a certified teacher if they get a LIS system or LIO system to provide the curriculum during COVID. And one suggestion I made was a site that I looked at and got quotes for as well is mishumblebees.com. There is a third option which has popped up in discussion for Aurora in particular is to allow a waiver for in-person instruction for teachers to do remote instructions. The certified teachers to do remote instructions while students are at the private pre-K's and this option would actually work for Aurora daycare because the teacher who is certified is willing to do remote learning while the students are in the pre-K and supervised by preschool staff. But the owner of the preschool was informed that to get the preschool funding that they would have to have in-person instruction. If during COVID-19 if the AOE approved and allowed for remote instruction all those teachers that the students know would be able to teach from home face-to-face with technology and the students would be supervised and also instructed by the preschool staff. This third option that I didn't include in my letter because I hadn't thought of it and I wasn't sure how the teacher I knew would feel about it. This third option really is the most effective for students in instruction because the teachers that would be doing the remote instructions know the students. Also it would be the most cost efficient because no external software would have to be purchased and also the students would be supervised by the pre-school staff who are watching them anyway. All that would be required would be for the AOE to allow for remote instructions from certified teachers to happen. The other two options are of course possible but after I've done some investigations very few school districts in the area are offering remote public preschool to preschool students because those students are at home and the supervision that they have is very limited and remote learning for preschool students is not a logical. You know if it's a computer and a student these students don't have the skills they don't have the attention span they don't have any of that. While if the remote option was available let's use the my son's the Aurora as an example you know they could use the preschool funding they would receive to continue to hire the music teacher that they did to continue to hire the part-time PE teacher that they did that who would actually come in they would be able to continue to hire the classroom teacher to do remote face-to-face learning with the students which is really what her model was anyway she would work with students one-on-one and the daycare worker would be doing a group activity with the rest. So that's kind of the issue that we're dealing with and in general the state of Vermont is really struggling to get preschool teachers anyway COVID has just dried up the pool completely. Well there's been a long-standing issue with you know the the required teacher in the private practices because we've had testimony for years that they can't get enough that there's a that there's an economy of scarcity especially in the kingdom and rural parts of the state. So I imagine COVID has exacerbated that to the point where people are just throwing up their hands. So Mr. Yates that's that's a great summary of the problem and some solutions. If you don't mind I'll turn to the the two other witnesses if it occurs something else occurs to you as we go forward we can certainly come back to you but if I could go to Allie Richards now welcome Allie and Allie if you wouldn't mind speaking to the extent possible to the you know factual parameters of this problem so far as you know them in other words how many teachers are we missing do you have any metrics around how bad this shortage is and then what are your thoughts on solutions and maybe we can limit it for now to everything being conditioned on the emergency with the idea that if we did something it would go away when the emergency went away as have all of our other temporary fixes. So start wherever you like. All right thank you for that prompt I would probably change my remarks a little bit although I did submit written remarks that might be helpful as resource for you all but I'll I'll do a more summarized version and really interesting to hear from you Bill as well and for the record Allie Richards CEO of Let's Her Kids thanks for having me in on this so you know let me start with your question. Senator Bruce we knew before the pandemic we needed 2000 additional early educators to the point the bill is making to actually meet the need of zero to five okay so just to give you some context we do have some numbers you know recently for example there's I mean they're anecdotal there's here and there but they all add up to what you're probably hearing there is unbelievable tremendous pressure right now with the loss of early educators for a variety of reasons one it was dire before to $13 an hour no benefits three you know right now you need more staffing to get this done in a difficult environment you know you need substitutes galore which they're hard to come by so we see programs closing because the staffing shortage it is really severe so this is I just want to be sure we're all on the same page this is really a moment right now where an acute pressure has just gotten even more acute somehow for another thing the hubs coming on board for the school age child care the sign-on bonuses and other things are going to potentially pull from this field or just frankly show the injustice you know in such a detrimental way that it's just hard to go on these folks have been working you know serious burnout since March in some cases for the low wage you know with no benefits and now they're seeing others make more money than they are and they could be making more money and literally any other job so there's a serious problem so you asked that question early on I just have to lay that out you know we saw one job site that has 72 listings for openings of child care right now we have the right in Montpelier where you usually be meeting right now up the street is one center that has five openings they cannot fill so they've had reduced their hours they they did do some data from cdd recently 33% of all programs said they changed their hours or days of operation because they didn't have enough staff so this is a widespread problem also 49% of the regulated child care programs said that they changed their hours a day because of COVID so this is very much a COVID related staffing related shortage so that's some context for you let me get back to sort of the pre-k specifics I'll finish quickly with the broader context here of this what the staffing shortage means you know I just have to acknowledge unbelievable work happening my early educators, licensed teachers you know especially last spring we saw some unbelievably creative awe-inspiring work happening to remotely support families in a really tough environment so you know in this case I would say we really do think that this is a shortage that Bill laid out beautifully I don't need to go into the details specifically to the pre-k complications but we would say that if you could temporarily as you mentioned Senator with a lens of not moving backwards on quality standards right this is a temporary emergency so making some creative flexibility right in this moment to get us through this but to not bake those into the long term you know that's the wrong direction but to have a waiver for example for pre-qualified pre-k programs who lose their licensed teacher the way that Bill has said and they're unable to hire replacements in a timely fashion you know we really appreciate that AOE shifted policy that actually allow requests for additional days for substitutes for licensed teachers programs are now allowed to apply for initial 45 days so we recommend also allowing programs that are pre-qualified as of September 1st 2020 to receive a waiver to continue to use the substitute for the duration of the whole academic year again temporary only but these fixes of waivers with substitutes and and other pre-qualification statuses really really would help I know Meg Baker is speaking next so I want to really yield most of my time to her because she can tell you how this all looks on the ground much better than I can Senator but I do you know really want to say that there are flexible there's flexibility needed right now to get us through this moment and Bill laid it out perfectly I think Meg can give you those details I couched it because of your question in the long the bigger picture staffing shortage terms and I just wanted to keep you guys in the loop because of this really crisis moment we're seeing right now with you know 500 spaces in Chittenden County alone in the last two months closing because of staffing mostly this is this is very serious so we were asked to come up with a solution um in the moment and other committees right now are actually hearing about it um and so I wanted to keep you all in the loop and I'm happy to come back at a different time if that makes more sense because I definitely don't want to take from Meg's time but um we suggested a one-time $500 wage retention incentive retention recruitment incentive for those who've been working in this field you know tirelessly without any sort of extra wage supports as a way to really say thank you and to compare it a little bit make it more equitable to these um hub folks that are coming on board and to try to stop the loss right now so that works kind of in conjunction with flexibility specifically to the pre-k piece as well I wanted to be sure you knew that was happening pretty much simultaneously it's new as of a couple days ago it's responding to a real need and it's uh flying through the process I would say right now in other committees just so you're aware of that so any specific questions I didn't cover senator but I'm trying to keep it I think I understood what you said um about those programs that are pre-qualified by September 1st you support getting waiver for the rest of the year um how about the waiver for allowing licensed teachers um in private programs what's what's your thoughts on that again yeah I would say if a program is pre-qualified yeah a private program is a pre-qualified pre-k but they've lost their licensed teacher to maintain their pre-qualification status through a waiver okay um but if they are not pre-qualified by September 1st so it seems like we would develop pretty quickly two subsets um a program might um not have been pre-qualified but want to move on without a licensed teacher would you support them not having a licensed teacher for the emergency if it's the licensed teacher that is the the singular factor because we know it's just a true shortage now um and there are other supports in place I would say yes I mean I'm you know I'm pushing on the creative flexible part here there are other parts of pre-qualification that are crucial as is the licensed teacher I want to be clear this is it's crucial crucial crucial you do not want to slip backwards on this however like this is an acute moment so I would say yeah this is really um there's a real dire moment here where families are going to lose access to publicly you know funded pre-k right now and um so I would say if the licensed teacher is the key factor flexibility there okay would be huge so um before we hear from Meg and I see that Senator Perchley has a question um inevitably this will come to language um Jim Demeray is watching us via YouTube um so Jim if you're listening uh so far it seems as though the idea of a an emergency specific waiver for programs that are pre-qualified by September 1 to continue as pre-qualified through the end of the year uh and then a waiver if a program has every other aspect of pre-qualification except for the licensed teacher um during the emergency does that sound about right uh Bill and Allie I'd love to hear from from Meg especially on the ladder um peace absolutely I'm just I don't want to um have to go back and remember and recapture so I'm not saying that we would move forward with that language but just so Jim understands to the moment what we're discussing um Allie that seems yes that seems accurate okay then let's go to Meg um Meg nice to have you here I'm sorry Andy uh Senator Perchley has a question I could also ask it after Meg it's about the that's okay go ahead so it seems like there's two things that Allie was just talking about is there's the requirement that there's a licensed teacher for 10 hours of the week offering instruction or helping with instruction in the building but I think I heard Allie talking about another waiver for the substitute teachers and I wanted to clarify those two different rules um I heard talk about making two different waivers temporarily isn't that right Allie that's right I don't know if the honestly uh this is probably a question for Jim and others I don't know if the first waiver is enough of an umbrella that it you know mitigates the need for the substitute one but the two that we specifically we're drilling down on and it's in my written testimony is the one is the waiver to you know if you are pre-qualified by September 1st to maintain that but the second one is to extend the substitute so in other words programs pre-qualified to you use a waiver for the substitute for the duration of the year so I don't know and be curious I mean maybe Kate or others also have a better sense of the technicalities of that I don't know if you would need to really list the specifics of both the licensed teacher waiver and the substitute waiver or if the first one covers the second but I do think you're right to say there are two thick dynamics here which is licensed teacher and the other is the utilization of substitutes the other before we go to Meg Jim if you're listening I I'd also be interested to know to what extent these changes can be made just as policy emergency policy decisions on the part of AOE and to what extent we would actually need to write session law or something to get us through so your thoughts on that would be appreciated as well Meg Baker hi thanks so I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify a little bit about the impact that coronavirus has brought to pre-k programs I'm the universal pre-k coordinator for Addison County which is three school districts Addison Central School District in the Middlebury area Addison Northwest in the Virgin's area and the Mount Abe unified school district in the Bristol area and this year we are partnering with approximately it's still a running number 31 private pre-k program Meg I think we lost you you're frozen Meg so maybe quick fix might be to turn your video off okay is that better that's your image is still frozen so maybe let's yeah there we go so let's try just audio okay all right sorry about that um so where where did you lose me uh we've got three school districts 31 private partners okay um and last year we had about 430 pre-k children and 80 percent of those children were served in our private pre-k programs I'm anticipating that approximately the same percentage will be served this year in private programming uh but coronavirus has definitely brought changes to both our public school programming and the private pre-k programming both programs are having huge shifts right now in fall enrollment a lot of families are still working on trying to decide what their needs are for pre-school programming and what their comfort levels with sending children back into those group environments are so we are seeing a lot of children who are either dropping uh or not enrolling so countywide I've had 34 children withdraw from pre-k in the last two months and that's just the four-year-olds who would be coming back it doesn't include the three-year-olds who never enrolled to begin with I'm anticipating that we'll see 20 to 25 percent fewer pre-k children all together enrolled this year as opposed to last year we are seeing uh in both district programming and private programming a shortage of staff as well um the that's in part the barriers include personal and household health uh and safety concerns as well as child care for uh school-aged children who may be attending a hybrid model so those are the barriers we're seeing there's a significant shortage for of substitutes both for schools and private programming and we may see some temporary isolated classroom closures because of that we've had several programs that have had to be creative with their staffing um either allowing children to come to work so we've got a number of programs that have gotten a variance so that staff children are able to come to work with their parents they've also offered more flexible scheduling for their staff um we have a program that is has a teacher who is doing kind of a combination of outdoor only um and virtual on-site but virtual learning for the children in the classroom um we've got reduced hours in several locations as well but I'm not seeing the difficulty with retaining licensed teachers um overall I'm seeing that it's it's uh teachers want to come back when the crisis is over but at the moment they are experiencing barriers to come back um there are some programs around the state that have closed uh UVM campus children's school and kinder start were two of our former partners and they've both closed and the financial impacts of COVID on all of these programs that have operated on very shoestring budgets have been huge they've had drops of enrollment they've got increased supply needs they are having to budget for communication tools to meet with their staff and families and a number of them are experiencing changes in space so they're renovating so that they have space to do the health checks or greater space for children they're moving they're learning outdoors and so they are getting more tents or equipment for outdoors changing furniture setups all of those kinds of things most of our full-time programs are also reducing their hours because they need extra time to clean adequately and they need additional staff for both greeting saying greeting children and and at departure because of the health checks um there are some grants that have helped support those programs uh but certainly programs uh have don't always have the energy and staff time to devote to applying for those so pre-k funding has been a huge help to them um our district pre-k programs this fall are offering about 10 hours of uh in-person learning for their pre-k students in a hybrid model so two days a week mostly and there's one school in our district that's also offering a 100% remote option for families I think for a couple of families most of our private pre-k programs are already back in session or are planning to be back in session when school starts so they'll be fully in person there are some pre-k programs private programs that are also offering families a 100% remote option for those for the children uh and most of those those kids are in individual situations where their families have a medical concern that doesn't allow that child to safely return and we are paying pre-k dollars and the guidance from the AOE does support paying pre-k dollars for children who are getting a 100% remote option um we offered some professional development this fall for both our public and private pre-k um partners on um remote learning which I should say is not really best practice in this age group because uh of the relationships that are and the hands-on learning that's necessary to really provide a strong education but we know that that may be a requirement um last spring our pre-k programs the private programs even though it was not required formed incredible learning opportunities remotely with their families they provided them with physical supports they drove out to deliver diapers and food they delivered packets of learning activities um there were mailings that happened there were lots of virtual opportunities and I have no doubt that if we have to close again that they will be able to support families again in in a remote context um just in response a little bit to uh some of the things that I heard from Allie and Bill um I 100 percent agree with Allie that staffing uh has been a long-standing issue in the early childhood field uh I could probably talk for a long time about why that might be but pay and benefits are a big part of that I would also say that in terms of what I see with the waiver um I think that there would be some benefit to providing pre-k private pre-k programs with a waiver to remain pre-qualified if they were pre-qualified last school year so I don't know about the September 1st date I might go with a May 31st 2019 date you know before the end of last school year um and I wouldn't recommend I don't think a waiver for new programs to become pre-qualified if they don't have a licensed teacher and primarily the reason for that is that I think that would open the doors to a large number of programs that have never been pre-qualified before and that it would be confusing for programs and for families why it might be acceptable for one year and not in the future for them to not have a licensed teacher on staff um so I would say if we if we shifted the language from September 1st to May 31st uh that would probably cover all the programs that were pre-qualified last school year um without necessarily opening the doors to a whole host of others and then one last thing while I've got your attention uh I know there's been a lot of conversation around the 175 school uh days in for K-12 and I would just note that pre-K programming is meant to run for 35 weeks uh which is is 35 five-day school days uh would be 175 days so if you shorten the school year for K-12 if you could also please remember pre-K that would be fabulous and I'll I'll cede any leftover time I may have Senator may I just say clarify I guess my hesitancy on your question Meg Meg got right to the heart of it which was what we're trying to say is you know in this temporary moment this leniency this flexibility is necessary but having the experience of of doing pre-K in the past is the key factor because you've had the the pedagogy is in place you have sort of the experience of the instruction that's that's likely to still be there you know even if you don't have access to that licensed teacher you know in in the moment that's sort of the basis of what my hesitancy hesitancy was to your question so Meg really addressed that just if that helps you get the the dates as you're sorting that through is it possible for me to make a ask a question of Meg? Sure I assume that's okay. Meg that great presentation I agree with you 100 percent um what is your feeling on um my my most expansive uh option of allowing certified teachers to teach from home while the students are in their private pre-K being supervised by daycare um um workers? So I would say in terms of the two proposals I heard from you the first one that I heard was um was allowing teachers to teach remotely um and then the other piece that I heard was allowing children to join public pre-K classrooms that are operating remotely um so that in terms of the joining the public pre-K programs I'll tackle that one first I would just say our districts don't have capacity um and and that forming new relationships with children virtually um to teach them is is going to be ineffective um and you know in terms of the preschool age group the other in terms of um having kids taught remotely by a licensed teacher my gut says that there are ways to do that well but that having a remote teacher leading a circle time for example is not going to be as effective as having time for that remote teacher to work with the other staff to engage the children in hands-on learning and um remote instruction. So if there was a remote teacher who was designing curriculum I would say yes but I wouldn't necessarily say that a remote teacher is going to be able to deliver direct instruction well. No yeah Meg I I do agree with you I I've been I was an elementary educator for 23 years um and um mostly in grades four through six uh but you're absolutely right my idea of allowing um a licensed teacher to teach remotely would primarily be that she would be supervising the other staff possibly talking with a student one-on-one for a short period of time because this particular teacher I'm thinking of has a relationship and I think it would be good for that student to check in with that student with with their teacher on occasion but you're absolutely right it's it's the it's the it's the staff on the ground so to speak that would be doing most of the instruction but I I thank you for your your insight. Thank both of you I I'd like to turn to Kate Rogers if I could from AOE. Ms. Rogers you've heard the discussion and I raised at least one question which Jim has answered he he believes we would need to make a statutory change around waving the licensed teacher during the emergency but thoughts on any of this wherever you'd like to jump in. Thank you this was um an incredible conversation really I'm sorry Kate Rogers Agency of Education I am the early education manager and I oversee universal pre-k and early childhood special education as well as early multi-tiered systems of supports for the agency. Again this has been an incredible conversation I love hearing about possible solutions to each of these dilemmas which we all face and again this is new for everyone trying to figure things out in order to support our our our children and their families to access pre-kindergarten education and as well as child care opportunities. I do want to point out that with with Allie's discussion on the staffing shortages with child care and slots programs closing it is a crisis situation absolutely but I also want to point out that the child care even though we have about 270 child care programs who are pre-qualified private pre-k programs so they support that within their settings. Um we talk about early childhood educators kind of like all in one bucket when to me and coming out of education an early childhood educator means for pre-k purposes a licensed educator endorsed out of the agency of education with their early childhood education or their early childhood special education endorsements so um so do you want to kind of it's you know we're trying to solve the same problem but we have different ways to move about it and different requirements regarding that as you know the agency of education and the agency human services child development division jointly oversee universal pre-k so we connect with them um weekly even daily sometimes about the operationalizing and monitoring of these programs so right now we have about 400 programs who are pre-qualified both public and private and we have about 40 applications for pre-qualification in our queue waiting on approvals so if a legislative um um if you move to you push a you know a waiver for for teaching staff for it has to be I agree it has to be something um in the legislation that does that we can't do that at the agency um but I do agree with the point that it should honor those programs who are already part of a pre-k system those new no um because they haven't had the opportunity to implement pre-k education um and have that licensed teacher on board um either on site um in public pre-k programs doing direct instruction or or on site and being present in private pre-k programs um to oversee instruction so we've got some nuances and differences in what that might look like um when I when I first came on I prepared um to um provide some comments based on Mr. Yates' letter that he provided with um pulling out and identifying the problems that he was facing and he knows other families are facing within his region um as well as coming up with some possible solutions so I think Mr. Yates said some of those solutions um we may have resolved um in the best way we could at the state level so we have recently released guidance on August 21st um the first guidance was on the allowable use of public publicly funded pre-k education dollars in response to um COVID situation and that outlines what private pre-k programs may do in terms of offering families remote distance learning or hybrid model of instruction for those pre-k students who are enrolled in their private programs and districts school districts of course pay public tuition dollars for each of those families so the child can attend and receive the public education so um so that guidance outlines that that um the private programs can continue to receive public pre-k dollars if they do offer remote or distance learning so I think that piece um is clear in that guidance and that's also um it also states and in another um additional guidance and I'll post these for you um Jeannie I can put them um in the chat box where the links are to these guidance guidance documents for for the committee members um additional guidance we put on on staff qualifications and the instructional instructional models um that um are impacted by COVID and this allows programs to again offer that remote distance or hybrid instruction to families um who choose to to take that option of remote instruction um so nothing's off the table we're in step two of um agency of education's school-based strong and and healthy start to get us going um so we we framed it within the steps of uh the strong and healthy start guidance um within this the same guidance a licensed educator um needs to implement the remote learning instruction and align the curriculum with our Vermont early learning standards and we are stressing the use of the Vermont early standards developing self um domains which which incorporates the social emotional pieces um to support educators and families on securing um best practice in order to support those families and children um with social emotional concerns and that's before any type of academic and I'm using air quotes for that academic instruction occurs so we want to make sure everyone is safe um and healthy and uh their needs are being responded to um as they move forward with whatever type of learning the families have chosen um then them to do so um in terms of losing a licensed teacher um pre-k programs um are required actually to inform the agency of education if they've lost the licensed educator um we have an accountability and continuous improvement system that we um um closed down um during march through july um we've ramped that back up um because um we know that all programs must comply with act 166 and the state pre-k rules and um part of that process um and this would also inform um programs um if a waiver does come through it would have to be that a waiver also um takes into consideration if a program is in uh like a tier one, tier two, or intensive needs um that may be in jeopardy of having their pre-qualification status revoked so there's different pieces I think that come into play um if you are thinking about providing a waiver um for programs um to waive their the licensed teacher expectation um that act 166 outlines the substitute teacher um it's always been a piece that there may be a substitute teacher that can be in place for 30 days um Allie um referred to that um the agency has provided an additional 45 days um given COVID maybe a licensed teacher um has has become ill um and the program is looking um to either hire or replace um that licensed educator this gives them up to 75 school district days to hire or contract with a licensed educator so that's half the year um in terms of what that waiver will provide um a school and or a private program other solutions um for keeping maintaining and finding um a licensed educator would be involved having an emergency license issued or provisional license issued um for uh an individual individual who um would like to be the pre-k teacher within a private and or public pre-k program so there there are these alternatives and and um systematic pieces in place at the moment um Ms. Rogers yes if I could just ask for clarification on one of Mr. Yates suggestions sure he was talking about um not not necessarily waiving the requirement for the licensed teacher all together but waiving the piece where they have to be on site uh so that they could provide input remotely whether it's working one-on-one with the kid or designing curriculum with staff your thoughts on that right and and that is part of our um pre-k staff qualifications guidance that is that is a possibility um given currently yep yep that's in the august 21st guidance that if I'm a remote option it could be that um and let me look at the language here I haven't pulled up and I'll post these for you so you have them at the ready um if you have the wrong one up senator bruce well yes go ahead sorry my my daughter's music is competing with the hearing did you have a question andy well I was I thought why she was looking at it Meg in a chat said she had wanted to ask a clarifying question so oh uh please go ahead Meg thanks um Kate you mentioned that in terms of uh other pieces that a program could take advantage of in order for to find a licensed teacher emergency and provisional licenses were an option but my understanding is that emergency and provisional licenses can only be granted by the superintendents and since the superintendents don't directly supervise staff and private programs I believe that in most of the state they've said that unless you work for the school district they're not able to offer provisional or emergency licenses to staff in private programs can you speak to that at all sure um the provisionals and emergencies must be um um an application for that must come in from the superintendent and it is at their discretion if they help to support a private partnering pre-k program with their application for a provisional for their teacher to get a provisional so why superintendents may be reluctant to do this is because that if that individual doesn't fulfill um the the teaching requirements within that program the um consequences fall back on the superintendent um and so that's why they um may be reluctant to provide that some dude however provide that for um private pre-k programs so maybe that's a uh something that needs to be explored a little deeper um through statute or the pre-k rules itself or the licensing educator rules too yeah well this is I mean I'm not telling anybody anything they don't already know but it's been a long-standing point of friction between private providers and public school districts um on this issue and also on the um pre-k what I'll call the pre-k establishment uh that is often synced with the public schools um we had long long hearings when we were trying to reduce the double oversight between the two different agencies and we had a lot of private providers come in and their their main complaint was this license teacher requirement they just found it problematic in every way shape and form um so doesn't surprise me that the problem is still with us um I realized when I look over the agenda today that we didn't have any people who run private providers in to testify on this and we should rectify that is there anything else you'd like to tell us Ms. Rogers um just again when I was preparing for Mr. Yates comments Mr. Yates you did suggest that a program might access online curriculum um to support the remote learning and this is one piece that we did define remote distance um in hybrid learning within the guidance um that we have just issued we do know and and you you you you said it yourself that um hours in front of a computer is not appropriate of course for our three four year old student kindergarten first second grade students of course um but the curriculum as part of act one six six must align with the Vermont early learning standards and the Vermont early learning standards also align with RTS gold it's our child progress monitoring assessment that we require um pre-k programs um to report on twice twice a year um in their checkpoints data so um I I do appreciate um you doing a little bit of research there and and sharing with us Mrs. Humblebee's academy um but there are our other requirements that go along with that in order to have high quality pre-k education for for our young students thank you sorry I'm trying to shield you from loud Elton John which has somehow made it back into teen pop music well he has good taste so given that we've heard all the testimony at this point questions for Ms. Rogers or any of the witnesses yeah Senator Perchley yeah for for any of them what I'm hearing from some of the private providers in my district is also that they're having trouble with some of the regulations just hiring the lead teachers you know so it's not that they need to have the state license for the 10 hours of the pre-k but for the childcare that some of the requirements there are getting because it's just so hard to find any like like was mentioned they put a add out for five positions and they get zero applications so on top of that with the low wage to say that they need to take spend money to take courses and things like that is is making it difficult I don't know if there's been any discussion my question is there's been any discussion on waivers of those other requirements temporarily I think oh okay I was thinking maybe AOE was the place to go for that well I'm just curious because it's actually on the CDD side so please Kate or Meg if you have feelings on that please I was just going to mention this is a CDD regulation um Kate do you want to go ahead no that's right it is um the lead teachers are uh defined in the childcare licensing regulations and not in the pre-k rules and I would just then add to that that um to your question senator uh yes the answer is not not as far as is there a blanket waiver that might be thought of like this as we're approaching you know start date of a pre-k academic year with licensed teachers it's a little bit more of a fluid situation so our understanding from the field is is CDD is being quite lenient with waivers on a case by case basis so I would I really recommend your local folks to call the licencer on duty and discuss that I know everybody's really really trying to understand what's happening on the ground and get us through this moment okay thank you I will say it's it's uh good to hear that one of Mr. Yates suggestions now seems to be possible under and I and I think Mr. Yates correct me if I'm wrong it was the possibility that you thought might be most efficient that is allowing the licensed teacher to um contribute virtually from what I understood that is allowed under the current guidance um any thoughts on that um I'd be interested to uh read the um the August 31st update on on that regulation just sort of to clarify it but if it's possible I I I think it's wonderful because it would allow these three to four year olds to um continue at least in some way with the instruction the the instructor that they are familiar with and are familiar with them um and um yeah if that's possible I I think it's great I think it would allow a lot of the licensed teachers who are left the classroom because of COVID to be able to still do their job and I can't remember who said it um it might have been Meg it might have been um someone else that it's not so much an issue that um we've lost or need to find many more certified teachers it's more that those teachers are unable to participate and are anxious to return after after COVID I think that sort of speaks highly for this opportunity for teachers to teach remotely with students who are in an organized classroom. Okay I think that's a great um thrashing out of the issue and I think there is one piece that it seems like we had agreement on I believe from all the parties and that would be the waiver for pre-qualification assuming that a program was pre-qualified by May 31st around the substitutes is is that am I right in that was that Ali what you were suggesting and what Meg agreed on with the friendly amendment of March 31st or I'm sorry May 31st? I believe that was on the bigger picture of if you were qualified pre-qualified you have a waiver beyond just the substitute. Yes yeah okay so we'll have a look at that Jim is taking notes and he'll come back to us with something on that I'll send it around to everybody I will um just so you know I will try to have a private provider or two in to talk as well uh because we we need to cover everybody but at this point I'd like to switch to outright Vermont and Dana Kaplan I think can kick it off for us this is around the $40,000 cut proposed in the governor's recommend and Mara Iverson is here as well so welcome to both of you we've got about 22 minutes left consider that your time and tell us what we need to know great thank you all so much I have prepared a couple of remarks and I'm going to go through and read that for you and then we are happy to answer any questions that might help in understanding where we are in this current picture with a proposed cut so for the record my name is Dana Kaplan I use he and him pronouns and I am outright Vermont's executive director joined by director of education Mara Iverson we're here today with a clear ask please recommend full restoration of the $60,000 legislative appropriation to outright so that we can continue to build safer schools for everyone and so that LGBTQ youth across Vermont have a chance to live let me be blunt the stakes are that high over the past many years outright has worked hard to move from scrappy to mighty knowing that the needs of our communities across Vermont were too dire to be anything but resourced and available for them through tireless advocacy efforts at the state house and by building relationships with individuals corporations and foundations we've made sure our financial footing is strong so as to be well positioned to meet the needs of Vermont youth and youth facing professionals statewide our overall FY 20 budget we follow a calendar year for our education program is $163,469 that's direct costs that allow us not just to execute trainings but to be ready and able to provide resources for educators year-round so a $40,000 cut to that budget money we were told as of July to count on is nearly 25 percent that would be detrimental to our services we've budgeted our costs expanded programs and applied for other foundation money based on our understanding of this state funding being secure it will be many months before some of those opportunities arise for us again as a nonprofit organization $60,000 covers most of what it costs to have one educator on our team and one person providing these services amounts to hundreds of resourced adults schools and youth I'll talk a little bit more about that impact in a minute we have conversely seen just how much it costs a district when they fail to meet the needs of their students just last year Burlington was sued by the Department of Justice for failing to provide affirming treatment of trans students do you know what they're mandated to do now district-wide training with Mara Iverson without this money we lose our stable ground and as the only entity in this state providing specific training consultation resource development and support programs to LGBTQ youth educators and administrators when I say we I mean Vermont we must remain steady and available to the people we serve we know firsthand the desperation that teachers and administrators feel when they don't have the knowledge or skills to support their students we also hear time and again just how relieved and successful they are when they do study after study has shown that the best way a government can spend money is on education it is the highest rate of return in the long run for years our relationship with the agency of education has been pivotal as we've approached new organizations to invest in expanding our work in Vermont schools they've seen the state support as an endorsement of the vitality and relevance of what our evidence-based programs do in addition this funding has provided a solid base from which other individuals and private contributions see how they can complete our funding picture and while we have worked hard to diversify our funding streams COVID has certainly created some additional challenges we've already seen the impact of the economic crisis on our revenue streams and are unable to rely on the level of contributions in a year over year comparison for example our first of two fundraisers that we do annually when we moved online this year saw a 60 decrease compared to 2019 at a time when the pandemic reveals the depths of our reliance on schools and educators to do so much more than teach and though our schools are burdened by the extra costs of operating safely in the COVID world we cannot afford to take a shortsighted approach here we must continue to invest in teacher training school supports and programs that set us up for brighter days ahead outright is a pivotal part of this constellation while educators and administrators are trying to get up to speed on how to teach in this new world we are here and at the ready to provide useful suggestions coping strategies and curriculum enhancements today in 2019 our work spanned all 14 counties 104 towns and that's those that we know of it's likely higher given certain districts like U32 serve multiple towns and we are now working with the network of 83 gender and sexuality alliances in schools those are extracurricular groups that support LGBTQ and allied students in their local communities we trained 1341 youth 2674 adults and provided a total of 111 trainings and workshops or 250 hours in actual training and workshop delivery time mind you that does not include prep scheduling or follow-up so that's a very low number all of these are instances that are providing youth and adults opportunities to see bright futures that are possible in other words a critical and hopeful counter narrative to what they typically see and feel in conversations that we have about LGBTQ youth and adults let me turn for a quick moment to provide a refresh of how we got to this point where we are right now with this appropriation in 2019 we came before you to share the very real need for schools across Vermont to better support LGBTQ youth you acted with care and dedication for some of our most vulnerable youth by recommending a $60,000 appropriation to the AOE base as a pass-through grant to outright expressly for the purpose of funding this work to create safer schools that the AOE would attempt to cut this relatively small for them amount of funding that directly supports the sustainability of these efforts through funding the salary of a director of education is beyond disheartening and honestly scary I know you have all seen the wire BS data those numbers are real youth those are real lived experiences of kids in our schools who are suffering isolated in remote towns living with rejecting family members being bullied in their classes left out of their curriculum they're ultimately navigating poor health outcomes across every risk category that we know of based on having to navigate a world and in our case a state that is still largely unaccepting and oftentimes violent and hateful towards them I'd like to just speak to a quick few points that I've heard the Secretary of Education make over the last week or so this $60,000 appropriation is not an anomaly and to paint it at such is downright inaccurate you can see a slice of the picture when you look at the PDF of the Agency of Education's payments and specifically the agreement amounts to us over the years starting in 2013 the chart ends in 2019 or your FY20 does not depict the $60,000 legislative appropriation that we got at that time but what you can see is funding that has increased from $20,000 to $37,000 to $60,000 and this was the AOE being responsible to the needs of school district based on their feedback and advocacy saying they were desperate for more trainings more resources more curriculum development more consultation time so that they could boost their capacity to support struggling kids. Secretary of Friends shared that the rationale to cut this money is essentially to spread the pain around if we apply an equitable lens to how we look at budget changes that makes no sense LGBTQ youth cannot tolerate any more pain it is a death sentence we do not want any part of and what kind of message does that send to queer and trans youth who are already struggling in schools in Vermont we lead and in the past we have done so with the Agency of Education by our side trailblazing with the authoring of the best practices guide for supporting trans students in schools including gender identity and our anti-discrimination laws other states look to us but right now with this proposed cut and no other plans in the works to support schools around LGBTQ competence I'm not seeing the Vermont we need to be calling out this money from the base is dangerous and it puts youth at further risk of failing at the hands of our education system protective factors our support of adults and peers not having to bear the burden of being the one to educate your class on how to use your correct name and pronouns but getting to be an active participant in school sports clubs classes it is about belonging and belonging is suicide prevention with no backup or alternative plan for this life-saving services it means that the cut is not just a cut to outright it's a cut to LGBTQ support work in schools period and that is not something we can afford if there's any silver lining to this wretched pandemic it's that more of us see how our fates are intertwined I thank you all very much for your consideration of recommending a full restoration of these funds so that we can all get back to the necessary work that is ahead of us thank you thank you very much Dana um Mara would you like to add or did that express your feelings as well I mean Dana killed it that was really awesome John Dana and I would like to remind you that the current statistic that we're looking at for the suicide rate for LGBT youth in the state of Vermont is one in five of our LGBT youth in a year makes a suicide attempt one fifth of our students and if you're looking at a number that's around um anywhere from 12 to 14 thousand one in five is thousands of kids a year that make a suicide attempt this isn't it isn't for play well thank you both um the committee has been supportive of your requests in the past I I won't speak for them now but if I were predicting I would say that's where we would wind up I I will suggest that we wait until next time when Senator Hardy is here um we're gonna have to begin as a committee a process of um putting together different requests around CRF funding I want to uh recommend to the committee and then hopefully to the senate that we increase the 6.5 million we put into the HVAC program um given the success efficiency of Vermont has had in signing up 300 schools for work so what I'm imagining is one communication to appropriations that would be um you know this is a regular budget item um not coming out of CRF or ESSER funds but we can have different sections of the letter and add to them as we go and then finalize it we don't want to wait too long because in another two weeks they're going to be working through their requests pretty quickly any questions for outright uh Senator Ingram thank you um well mostly I just really want want to make a comment I a couple comments I know Senator Hardy was very sorry not to be able to be here um today and she's uh you know very very supportive and she was it was actually her idea to invite you um today so um just to convey that from her uh and then also as you know as one of the three LGBTQ senators um I just want to thank you very much for your your work and um you know I I am well aware of uh you know we're not playing around uh when we're talking about young people and um finding their their place in the world and um um being able to to manage and uh also the the incredibly important um resource that you provide to um to teachers and to to adults in their lives um to help them to to understand better so I thank you for your work and um I don't mind saying that I will certainly do everything I can to to make sure that your your funding is is restored it's really a drop in the bucket um in a billion dollar AOE budget and um yeah it seems to me there's no reason why we can't get your funding back thank you so much appreciate that well thank you very much folks for joining us uh committee what I'm thinking for Thursday is Jim Demeray has prepared language around Dan French's policy proposals that he went over with us last time it turns out that the house is putting forward a very similar document so we'll take a look at that on Thursday we won't look to vote on it or move it what we'll do is go through it note uh places in the language where we want to make changes what we seem to support as a committee what we don't and then we'll wait for the house to deliver us what they're going to send but at that point we'll be ready to act on it very quickly so that's the heads up for Thursday anything else before we head out Senator Ingram thank you um yeah I did just want to bring up um in um testimony that uh sent health and welfare heard this morning about the um the hubs and the child care hubs and uh yeah sorry yes I think we're all done with you Dana and Mara thanks thanks Dana uh about the child care hubs um we uh we heard also from Holly Morehouse about um after school and the after-school programs are very much involved you know in that um and she mentioned a couple times s335 um that we asked for um yeah the task force and um so uh I just wanted to say that we kind of told her we would try to check into that I guess it's in house ed right now and um if you don't mind I know I'd be happy to reach out to um some of our colleagues in the house and see where if it's on their radar you know if they have any intention of passing it before we sure I I think that would be fine if you want to do that um I did and I believe Kate uh web ccd you on it Debbie she did mention maybe uh month ago that they might be interested in working on that I suspect what's going on there is the house version of the tax and regulate bill now directs uh a chunk of the proceeds into after school and so given that that's the house's stance it may be that that's trickled to the ed committee and people have said hey didn't you have a a bill setting up a task force um so sure if you want to do that um you know I just I I've kind of lost hope for the house acting in any predictable manner on anything that we've done um I I honestly I just don't understand what they do with their time because they seem uninterested in moving legislation and I can't see that they do much in the way of oversight either so it's uh I don't know so with that said probably better that you go speak to them than than that I do um so it was just pointing out sorry I was just pointing out that you know short-term problem now but we if we want to get ahead of our you know long-term needs we were we really need this this task force yes but for for instance let's just take this task force we sent it to them you know six months ago seven months ago um it's just a task force it's it's not policy um and they could have you know I know they support after school so I just I just don't get it but again they're they're locked onto something that I can't see um so I think that's everything Andy you didn't have a question did you I just wanted a quick question on the school ventilation program if there was anything else to do on that or just as kind of uh hold hold to see if there's going to be any funding or do we want to hear from them or is that really not needed if well what I'd what I'd like to do is um so as we've talked about a lot in here there's a hundred million dollars supposedly fenced off for pre-k out of the the crf money so it it doesn't look like the hole in the ed fund is going to be more than 70 million so even if we were allowed to move that money into the ed fund there's a chunk of money there that I would I would be willing to fight for in terms of our needs k through 12 with that said um you know adding we have 6.5 million approved now you know if I went to Jane Kitchell and said we were interested in adding three and a half million for an even 10 or five million or some five and point five to bring us to 12 I'll just gauge her reaction um if she seems open to that I'll bring it back to the committee and no one has expressed any opposition to increasing the funding anybody feel like that would be a problem for them okay so I'll assume since that was our policy proposal it's been very successful so far you know one way to look at it is we should be directing as much money into that program as we can because what it's going to do is get rid of our deferred maintenance and save property taxes in the long run so you know as far as I'm concerned if we could put 20 million into it I'd be all for it so I'll talk with uh Senator Kitchell and report back um I'll try to do that by Thursday Jim I would suggest doubling the money from six and a half million let's go for another six and a half yeah and uh double or nothing right let's uh yeah I mean if if uh I would like to see more money up front to begin with but it is what it is well originally uh Senator Kitchell offered 12 million um which I will remind her of and we we you know negotiated with ourselves down to six and a half based on what we thought was a good reading of the available workforce but it seems like those problems aren't cropping up and there's a there's a clawback anyway in November if it doesn't look like it can be contracted and finished by December 31st so you know putting more money in it's it's not gone forever if it doesn't get spent by the right moment we still have a month to move it into some other other place so let me have that discussion we'll start work on a memo in terms of funding priorities for the committee and we'll we'll keep working on uh secretary french's policy pieces I'm thinking this little piece around pre-k we could drop into that miscellaneous um because it's also COVID related okay everybody thanks very much see uh Thursday at 2 30 if not before I guess I will see on the floor see you tomorrow at one yeah all right see you guys