 I'm delighted to talk to you today over the next 15 minutes or so about the destructive resilience agenda that we at HSG currently champion. In this session, myself and my colleague Alex Varsana will be speaking to a number of very excited speakers who will introduce as we go along and discuss some key propositions on what means to change what it comes to. The current landscape of managing risks in cities. If I can give you a thumbs up for Camilla to confirm, you can see the screen and my presentation. Great, thanks a lot, Camilla. The idea here is really quite simple, but central one line selling proposition is that the nature of risk that cities in the global south are facing has changed dramatically. However, ways of managing this business have not kept the pace and we can change that and we need to use new innovators and there I say, disruptive approaches to deal with the destructive risk that we now face in cities of the global south. So what are these destructive risks? There are at least a few kinds of shifts in this therapy in this. One is, we are seeing more and more extreme and outlier events. And there are loads of examples of this. The archetypical one being that the infrastructure in New Orleans was given to be the one 50% of the cycle of events, whereas Hurricane Katrina was the one 411. We are seeing more and more these quote-unquote maximum events happening more frequently. We are also seeing risks taking place and unfolding over large areas. And this is at the end, lots of examples of this. A really great one, a really illustrative one comes from South Asia, where in 2020 when cycle unfun was approaching the southern coast of Bangladesh and the eastern seaboard of India, these areas are also suffering from the outbreak of COVID-19. And Tunisia, which is our city eastern India, has historically been attacked by cyclones. And over the last 20 or 25 years, there have been a great factor of tackling this. And at the center of that, the cyclone-dependent plan is the development use of cyclone-dependent channels. But when cycle unfun was approaching 25% of cyclone channels were being used in COVID-19 isolation centers. And the state was unable to deal with the multiple cognitive risks that are taking place on the outside. And this is by no way, this is a plan that is happening more and more. Through COVID-19, 51.2 million people face strong clashes, extreme heat events, and the onslaught of COVID-19. So we are seeing that we have to clear ourselves up between multiple categories at the same time. The last way in which the grid is changing in series is through the growth of teleconnected and trans-hungry risk. This is where a disturbance in one part of the globe needs to work massively harder in another part of the globe, due to the increasing densification of global economic and social system. A few years ago, cyclone knocked in the car production areas of Thailand. Not only did it need to get this big failures of car manufacturing plants in Thailand, but it led to shutdown of car manufacturing facilities all over Southeast Asia, South Asia, and Latin America, which they had downstream economic impacts on the communities living in these areas. And there are other examples of this, including a grid failure in California that led to a collapse of basic services in Mexico. And I can go far and far. So this is the landscape of this that we're dealing with. This is the problem that we're dealing with. So our proposal is that we need to change the way in which we are conceptualizing the risk. And I promise in ways of managing the risk and feeling are no longer valid and need to change. And then at least there are changes in at least five domains of action that we're proposing. Number one, all good action begins on strong foundation of data. And we need new ways of data. I'm going to go into detail in each of these five pillars of the next slide. We need to engage with the informal sector in a much more substantial and meaningful way than we have. We need to look at new and exciting and innovative, relevant ways of financing. We need to reconceptualize what we need by resilience of our own systems. And we need to rethink the way in which innovation happens in cities for faculty to understand. Here's a bit more detail. Now, in this final slide, I'm going to over describe what is business as usual and what changes that we're proposing. And I'm going to try to convince you by giving me better examples of how some of the changes are put. And we need to amplify, expand and build on these early case studies of good practice. So let's start with a bit of data. And I'm going to go into more detail on the data which will follow our analysis after this. So when it comes to business as usual, data, of course, has a specific case. Acquiring and analyzing data is a village game of this management in cities. However, by and large, data analysis and collection is highly centralized. We have experts in model hazards and then definitely in decision-making. Or we have experts who are flying into cities of the global south to do wonderful assessments, extract the data, analyze it in the Vancouver, New York or Delhi, and then make decisions based on that. It's expensive. It's arduous. It cannot deal with the dynamic destructive risks that cities of the global south are facing. And many times, the scales at which this data is protected do not calibrate the scales at which decisions need to be made. A case in point is downscaling modeling, even downscaling where points are aligned against decision-making features. And so we're proposing that we need to disrupt the way in which we are applying and analyzing data. And we need to do this through great thinking, the highly centralized approaches that we've been using up and now. And we argue that we need to adopt decentralized and distributed approaches of applying and analyzing data to understand the risks and understanding analog data. And Sloan Welles International has led unique experiments in, sorry, unique initiatives to which people living in and foremost, everyone's self-sustained themselves and make themselves seen and heard. It's been amazing to talk about this with Diana and others listening and who've looked at a lot of this work. And of course, we have Ben from STI as well listening and who will be able to shed more light on this. Or we can have a digital data where there's a whole new range of digital approaches to apply and analyze data that go on AI, machine learning that go on quote, quote, big data approaches. Let me give you a quick example of one of these. So one of the biggest issues that make cities in the lower south of all the days of the scheme. However, understanding the degree to which cities are impacted by internet needs the acquisition of accurate data in the general. And in cities, it's very difficult to acquire a data because this varies block by block, street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood. It depends on how many trees are on the street, what is the, how much glass is included in the data, et cetera. So this is a challenge that people have been working on. So to overcome this challenge, early innovative startup in America has figured out that every Android phone in the world is constantly monitoring that it's battery temperature. And through real-world migration, they've developed an algorithm that converts battery temperature data into battery temperature data. They've simply figured out what batteries the air is at eight degrees by and large. Through this, they now have razor-fine air temperature data of 500 mousses, cell phones, or data phones spread across America. Cities which allow them not only to monitor air but over time model the materials much more effectively. And this is just one of many examples of an expanding array of low-cost, easy to use, decentralized approaches to apply and analyzing data for decision-making. Now, I just want to point out that this was an argument that was a bit out there a few years ago. But through COVID-19, we've seen even governments in the global south jumping on the big data map through things like all that facing which are delivered in fact at scale. Now, I want to online that I feel like I'm not big data evangelist, and I feel like data is just one of five reports of systemic framework protecting the disrupting risks that we've described. The second crucial part of that is engaging with informality. And the rule of 13% or so of all cities across the world are informally in the global south within another empire. And from the world, we feel that we are compensating for the impact of COVID-19. So, informality is a huge issue that all of our anti-patriots need to relieve it. Now, in existing urban resilience initiatives, of course, there's an engagement to the informal sector. However, my argument is that this has taken a form of participation of these three engagements within the informal sector where engagement with them reduces the validation of decisions that have already been made. People in the informal sectors are at best seen as recipients and beneficiaries at worst seen as a problem to be dealt with. That's what we are arguing. So, we need to change and bring about a paradigm shift in the way of conceptualizing engagement within the informal sector in the context of enhancement of resilience. And this needs to be now being dedicated on model partnership not on participation. This is much more than a record of real difference. The key difference here is that we need to acknowledge that the informal sector can be a leader, can demonstrate leadership in mining solutions and external actors need to provide an amazing amount of this leadership to be much. We need to make sure that decisions are made from round up and are calibrated with local context. We need to acknowledge and understand that the informal sector is a crucial partner in finding solutions. Again, this is much more than a regulated argument. So, examples of this have happened all over the world before. It's really useful model that we share more like this in a minute. But in Mumbai, Mumbai has issues, largest now, and historically, residents of this neighborhood of Islam, it's actually much more almost like a main city. And it has a fairly antagonistic relationship with the city of Mumbai. However, unique forms of meaningful partnership emerge within the city of Mumbai. There's things of harmony in COVID-19. Two examples of this are that Harami has a number of informal semi-trained medical practitioners that were not shunned or ignored by the formal system. However, during COVID-19, the city government realized that the only way they were going to provide medical services with this massive informal settlement is by partnering with these informal actors, informal providers, or medical assistants. So, they provided them training, they developed a network, and they gave them medicine and equipment to deal with the outbreak of COVID-19. Another example of this with Harami was that basically, the government realized actually mapped the extent of the COVID-19 infection in this area. They have to partner with cities and therefore, municipal cooperation employees and members of the settlement form teams that went house to house to survey and mapped the outbreak of COVID-19. That's two examples of how this partnership can actually come about even in complex extent with great secure power. The third and important element to this is urban services. We need to make sure that the transport into the project and helps all these critical systems which are resilient to multiple impact shocks and stress in the city and the global communities. However, when it comes to business and mutual, there has to be an inorganization and overwhelming emphasis on strengthening infrastructure in the aspect of the development. Don't take my word for it. 98.2% of all the money that's going to be from the global environment to cities for the delivery of heart systems. And indeed, the remaining 2% for developing capabilities is 20% of those capacity that can be useful for operating heart systems. There's a decision making system by Canada that don't accurately acknowledge the dynamic of this city and therefore we argue that any shift in the system to much more of a development capability is equal to running the system. We need to make sure that people running the system have the capacity to make decisions under uncertainty and we need to make sure that management approaches that can be adopted by city managers. Again, during COVID-19 we saw this happening across the world, matched the rise of COVID-19 which is in effect adaptive management it's just that there is a big reactivity and we argue that we are too much component of innovation. Even with that we are facing uncertainty even that we are facing extreme events. But we have definitely before of course when it comes to innovation however I would argue that this is expert like your central approach delivering the best of the solution as opposed to the solution that are calibrated and therefore we argue that we need to create in future innovations of those on the ground and again lots of examples of this I think my colleague Eric has probably listening on this he is an example obviously of proven innovation with this he worked in the state which increased and especially with this and therefore he developed a low cost backup generator made of small solar panels second hand batteries of motorcycles he lit them up and created a backup generator and then it was social where villages surrounding the digital which allowed low income household food COVID-19 we saw a lot of Juga innovation that's what others from South Asia would be well aware to deal with the best that we face that has happened and how reactive we need to create ecosystem in which that would happen in a proactive way finally now this is possible without financial risk and I would keep my mic up now when it comes to finance at the moment anyone who's had the experience being a big one knows any kind of application for finance to be at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at least at me at you at you we need to learn New that so I need to be as possible to be flexible specifically, who have the capability to administer a capability of issuing this for long. Many municipal bonds have issued raise financing for various areas. We need to create an outlier example such as that keep down the issuance of a long payment of all the revenue to expand this way of the quality financing that is going to be. Before I move on, I want to say that doing certain schools doing work across all these different verticals, I'll give a couple of quick examples. Anna, who's just keeping an eye on me, who's just nipped out, and I'm working on developing a platform for low cost indigenous innovation for planning and energy in South Africa, which will hopefully come to fruition soon, which will spot scale and strengthen existing innovations that are contributing to the change of a lot of our work, especially some of our work, the work that PAPA and others are leading on, that has this idea of leadership from the whole sector, and knowing the community with the heart of it, and yes, we have emerging piece of work and agenda around municipal resilience bonds that we can work on. I just want to end by acknowledging the big catch that we hope to be a new component from these angles. A lot of these come from very remarkable issues of the journey published in a fairly consistent over the last 10 years, and some of the people who are who inspired these arguments are just here. Apologies to those who are missing. There's always a great nature of listening to people. And of course, many of those, we're very grateful for listening in today. I hope all are in good mood. So thank you for that. However, there was one that I think of and I hope it would be the editorial that both the David Satterway became thought of for the 2013 issue on resilience and transformation, that really has been found, maybe, in the form of mind thinking for many issues. If any of you want more information, apologies for the cheat plug, these are the two publications that you can look into. So thank you very much for your transition to the more interesting part of this session, and invite Swirthi to go off mute and put on a roundabout. Could you please repeat your question because the mic is not very clear, sorry. Sorry, Swirthi, can you hear me now? Yes, it's slightly better. Okay, let me just do this properly once before we pick the problem. And just see this mic is, is this mic any better? Yes, yes, it is. Swirthi, you're a well-planned with Spark, you have a lot of experience of working with the informal sector on issues of sustainable development and resilience. Just want to give you a space to react to some of the things that you heard in a minute. Tell me what you think you got right, what you think you got wrong. Aditya, I think what we've learned through the Federation's network and STI and across grassroots organizations is that data, as you rightly mentioned, is rarely available at a disaggregated level. And it's very important to acknowledge both in the development and development with a climate lens on it. As we are talking about this today, that it's important to have data that is collected, owned, and it speaks to the needs of the urban poor. And data that which is inclusive and decentralized, which is available to the communities as information to drive local action. And we've seen this more so in informal settlements that have looked at master plans like in case of Kenya and Makuru and in Daravi more recently where we did interventions during COVID that without having that sort of data which can be used as information by communities to drive local action. Communities otherwise just remain beneficiaries of the process and it's important for them to become partners and source of solutions. And that is something that we've seen again and again. And it's now more so relevant because when we're talking about driving action in climate change, this kind of data both in terms of numbers and also especially is to be available both at the board level with the governments at the local level and at the communities is very central. I think that's what I'm going to ask you to just describe for us because I know you've been doing a lot of this and now you're putting all that into practice with your new initial roof over our heads. Let us look at how you're changing these dynamics participation and leadership in the foreign sector and move more heads especially through the development of your other lands. Yeah, roof over our heads we like to call it rule for short is a part of the Race to Resilience campaign that was launched at the top 27. It's conceived out of the poor people's ask within the SDI Federation's network of women and it emerges out of a recognition of collective failure to address lack of access to safe and decent houses for most vulnerable communities to transform housing to ones that can survive extreme weather conditions through locally driven solutions. It's taken in the form of what we call as rule learning labs where we are learning and producing with the urban poor labs at 10 labs in India that we've begun with which aims to test a framework that can then be scaled up to 100 labs globally. The labs are central to the reality that 93% of poor people self-built and self-financed houses incrementally poor people built out of necessity and choices they make that are intuitive through trade-offs and coping mechanisms that emerges out of basic survival. What we want to do in these labs is put people's needs at the center and to invite peer-to-peer learning across the T's to say let's retrofit where necessary and rebuild where possible. And it sits at the juncture of looking at challenges that emerges from microclimates and what are the responses that micro markets have been able to do so far. And as Tom mentioned in the beginning that 96% of the construction materials and techniques haven't really changed since time. These labs seek to create alternatives in design, construction techniques, materials and finance that which is affordable, accessible, available, acceptable and adaptable to the urban poor. Okay, Surya, thank you so much. I want to find a question. So you find yourself in an elevator with a mayor of the city that is high at risk but maybe not in the incident where mayors don't have much power but just go with my question. In about 45 seconds, probably three things that you would suggest they do for reducing the risk in the city Could you repeat the last sentence that they're sorry? I think in order to reduce risk there are no straightforward questions or answers but I think it's important to have data that talks to the needs of people. It is important to look at local solutions that emerge from communities that come up with local scientific knowledge and three, it requires a range of actors like academicians, the knowledge networks, professionals, innovators and industries to come and work with the communities to co-produce. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, Aditya. I'd now like to invite Sonena who works with researchers on a remarkable project for Malaysia and my colleague Alex Marcena on the desk. And I think what we're going to do is try to share what might well be sought out what the issue will make sense. Thanks, Aditya, for an enlightening presentation on those and stop. Thank you so much for being here. And I have a couple of questions and I want you to help us to understand how your practice with technology actually do basically the perspective that you have here on data. So we know that the ability of data to implement decision making depends very much on the relationship of trust between those that produce the data and those that consume it. We also know that every day interaction between groups can actually produce that trust between these two, right? So in other words, we know that trust and data production are somehow in their work. They can produce each other. So I wonder, from your perspective, how do you think we can use basically address the issue of lack of trust between components and managing like communities and cities? How can we address these opportunities that new technologies on data relations can offer? Thank you, Allison. Thank you. I think you're bringing the discussion with me that you do very much like the frame of five dimensions of destructive resilience. I think on the data part and for this, I'm going to draw from my experience of working in East Africa finally under the program, the Raja, just to contextualize with what I'm going to be telling you on. I work primarily in the communication system where I work with communities and inform the set of this predominantly to improve their capacity of capacity to take anticipated reaction by using the weather and time information that's forecasted in early morning. So that's one part of it. And on the other hand, I also work with national and international services of the countries I work in. To develop their capacity to engage with various stakeholders including informed communities to provide better weather and time information to products and services. So in order to do this, we have worked very closely with these two groups but also seven intermediaries in a city. So that would involve NGOs very much as far against everyone on the ground with us today. I've seen media organizations so that's a community of radios, citywide radios on other houses. Also city governments at different levels. So for example, municipalities are quite, but municipal governments are quite important to this process. So now when we wrench into the region to do this project, obviously the first thing we found was there was a significant lack of trust between informed communities and the government. That is largely because they feel I mean, they are marchingists. And they feel often excluded from basic services that the more affluent parts of the city have better access to. So understandably, there is a lack of trust. So that was one of the first things that we have to address. How do we bring all of these different actors to the table who don't really trust each other and then work together to improve the way the city handles the communication of all mornings and actions of your weather? As in the level, I would say I'm very much a pro-technology person and technology does offer the benefit of scale solutions. The fear that probably other things, non-technology solutions may not do as effectively. However, at the same time, I would say that technology is only a part of the solution but not the entire solution in an office step. And I think that is something we have tried to embody as we've been approaching this. So we've taken a view of using technology where it's appropriate relevant and accessible and combining that with human intervention and services and co-production processes. So in terms of like a question around newer technology and how that new technology and the intersection with data collection, use of data and trust, I think participatory data collection, something that I'll tell you earlier, is one of the best ways of approaching this. I know there are several examples from the view of the South on how this has been done. I think also we did do one of the examples I was going to share. I come across this project in Daniel where community members were reporting on some financial data through SSD, the phone SSD mechanism. And there are several ways of doing that. Some of the more other ways of doing this is also using there are lots of polling platforms that are cost effective, that can be used. There's also social media. I think social, all of this comes with risks. And that is something that we've been, we've tried our best to be mindful of. For example, if you're using technology that is on smartphone or smartphone related, that obviously raises the question of access. So what is the level, what are the reading levels of access communities in our geography? How to smartphone? Number one. And number two, what is the access to mobile data or sort of internet? And we found that in foreign settlements specifically, there's, it's a shipping scenario, but there is a challenge in access to that, particularly by data. We just consider it to be quite expensive. So people don't seem to have it on for, people who seem to have it on for two hours a day, but for all the switchy points or some points to, you know, seek certain information. So that raises questions around, say, things like early mornings or, you know, continuous access or continuous function of the election. Yes, so whereas in India, where I'm from, that landscape has shifted significantly. There is high beneficial on smartphone, even in foreign settlements. And mobile data has gotten significantly cheaper and therefore there's more continuous access to it. So there are, the technology landscape is shifting and that provides a lot of opportunities for the sorts of important things about the risks when you choose these options. Thank you, Arash. That was an excellent sharing, I really appreciate it. So I'm going now to invite this, to the perspective of Professor Nike here, on the basis of theology and human geography of the university in our academic interests, expanding from quality of quality, social nature, script for development, study, feminist theory and methodological work on meeting methods across the social and natural sector. She focused very much around three themes, like climate change and adaptation and transformation, public authority and state formation, and emotions and subjectivity within environmental governance and culture. I think her perspective, particularly bringing everyday practice into an effect to sociological adaptation is very interesting and actually going to help us understand as well from working through the rough turn that comes from the social and actually in that. Professor Nike, go, as well as you. Thank you very much. Hi everyone, thanks very much and thanks for inviting me. I feel like I'm going to kind of zoom us back out again to more abstract questions, which I hope doesn't feel too awkward, given the really kind of rich and grounded discussion we've just been having. But I was asked to sort of talk about how a feminist approach to resilience and cities was useful in our analyses. And I guess for me, there's sort of kind of two or maybe three main points I want to make. And I think one is that when we think about social inequalities, or I prefer to think of them as social differences, we tend to put them into categories and boxes. So we have informal settlements. We have women or gender. We have different racial groups or ethnic groups or caste groups. We think about class. And I find those categories to be really helpful. But I think where my approach to those categories maybe differs by the kind of performative feminist theory I use is that I understand them as something that emerges from our everyday interactions and from the ways that we conceptualize and understand how power operates in society. So if I go back to Gotem's opening talk, he discussed the sort of the relation or the, you know, he distinguished between the normative, the analytical and the operational. And for me, I think if I start in the analytical domain and I say that it's not so much about, you know, how gender relations exclude women, but rather it's about how power operates through gender to shape who is imagined to have the right knowledge to deal with a challenging new future to govern, you know, who is authorized to govern change. And that authorization is coming through the way that we imagine inequalities to operate in society or yeah, how we imagine them. So just to give you a more tangible example, within the adaptation and resilience kind of work, there's often a focus on kind of who is at risk. So who is it that needs support for adaptation and resilience? And those people are almost always imagined as different from those who have the capacity and the knowledge for creating change, for building adaptive capacity, if you will, or building resilience. And I think that distinction is, I like the framing that Aditya put out at the beginning because that's precisely challenging that kind of framing and saying that we have to get away from believing that the people who we consider to be the most vulnerable are not useful in terms of having knowledge, having agency, having resources and practices that are useful for us, are useful going forward in terms of building resilience. And so from a kind of more analytical point of view, if I think of how power operates to create social difference, rather than just assuming that social difference already exists, but rather I need to see how the shape of our cities, so the kind of spatial arrangements of housing and access to services serves to kind of create and reinforce and kind of, if you will, like a ring fence, various kinds of exclusions. I'm sure I don't need to say that to this audience, but my point is an analytical one, which rather than sort of taking those as given, I understand the way that the structure of the city is complicit in, both is created by and complicit in the ways that power is going to operate to differentiate society in the present and in the future with really significant consequences for these core questions I have, which are who is authorized to govern change? Who's imagined to have the right knowledge to cope with a uncertain future? Who's imagined to need support and who has capacity? Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, Alex and Savannah. I think we have five, six, seven minutes for a couple of burning questions, but we might request gentlemen to help us with the mic situation. Do we need to pause or are you happy to? Thank you. I'll go to the room first. Any questions? Alex, do you want to do a test on that mic to see if people on the Zoom can hear us? Hello, hi. Can you hear me? Can you hear me clearly? If Adriana can give us a hand up, we'll be just trying to make it clear. Not very clear. Those mics are not audible to people on Zoom. They can hear you now. They can hear this mic very clearly. That's a big question. Yeah, okay. If you have to fix it for the rest of the day, so thank you for bearing with us. We just want to fix this mic issue, so all of you online. Can you hear us? Can you hear me clearly? Yes, Adriana? Is it clear now? More or less. Okay, we're going to find power through. If the audio gets very bad, we need to put in the chat box and we request the gentlemen to come help us again with this. So are there any followers at the room first? Take a couple of quick questions. Anything from what you've heard from our different presenters? Anything from what you've heard from our different presenters? Or on what I presented? Any questions? Welcome. Please tell us who you are and then please go ahead with your question. My name is Hamza Afrullah. I am a student of MOSFETS. I am the Urban Education Department at the University of London. I am very happy to be here and listen to all the experts and their insights. My question is different from the discussion of informality and poverty. I also come out there. So I see that there is a lot of a lot of quarterly work that wants to complete this out. So my question is that in the backdrop of the very political regime in India, through the definitions of informality or poverty itself being over-problematized and because a lot of experts advocate for retrofitting or upgradation of the settlements of urban poor. But how will you deal with these questions in the way of demolishing certain settlements from their identity by staying with us? And if we talk about the data and having the data of informal settlements or the important people then how do we protect certain people who engage in important practices of street planning? How do we protect them against the state and societal violence? If the state has their data then the regional activists will have a chance to go there and come back for five days. Thank you. Thanks for the interjections. I wonder if I can call on Smuti to respond to those. Smuti, I don't know if you've got either of those two questions but fundamentally in my view both of them will be able to enhance the accountability in cities of the world, South Korea's elections. Yeah, hi Aditya. I'm not sure if I put here that clearly but I think it's talking about accountability for data. I think one of the things that I would like to ask is that why do we think that the state doesn't have data? The state has the data, it's at the aggregated level and much of that data doesn't serve the needs of the people and when the data is there in the ownership of communities they can choose to do what they want with it, they can leverage the data to negotiate and much so work with the governments to do something about their needs. So it's not so much of a threat to, the data is not so much of a threat as the way I think is being perceived at the moment. Thank you. Thanks a lot Smuti. Mohan, do we have any questions online? In which case I just want to check if you have any questions online. Hi Aditya, yeah, I'm online. What are your reflections on the government's on adaptation policy? Any reflections? What are the myths? What do you find interesting to be useful? I think to me the things that are resonating the most and hopefully I'm audible, I've had a huge amount of computer issues and I'm joining by phone. Okay, thanks Aditya. I think the things that have been resonating with me have been the focus on the operational actually. So often we think of that as not a realm of research and in some ways almost a little bit beneath the researchers realm of expertise and preoccupation and I think there's a real need to change that because there is so much that comes down to the operational details that needs to be understood that needs to be investigated and I just see a lot of opportunity within the urban resilience space to get to that operationalization to understand how to do it and as Tom said earlier really share lessons across northwest southeast there's so much opportunity for that. A second issue that really resonated is the innovation agenda and there is so much of that juggad innovation going on all over the world across silos, across boundaries, there's finance innovations there's technological innovation, there's process and policy innovation and we shouldn't forget those and I think there's great opportunity to nurture those innovations and again help operationalize them and help them scale around all of the urban resilience challenges that we face whether it's the incredible work that we heard about on early warning systems or infrastructures as Tom mentioned the painting buildings white there's cool and reflective paints and all sorts of innovation on urban cooling that is certainly needed and needs to be scaled and all of that is not to say that there isn't a real need for that deep social reflection and understanding of who's excluded who's privileged you know I think it who isn't and it really to me means a new way of doing business really aligned with that deep colonization agenda and I see IID really on the front lines of doing that and has been for a very long time maybe in different names different paradigms but I think that's a real important element for empowerment but really just for success for breaking through yeah I'll stop there just one final question you're currently working with the human salvation of each resident are you able to give us any sneak peek throughout other areas so you don't know what to do next it's a really good question it's again a tough one institutionally because the UN multilateral system sort of ends at the national level in many ways of course we have UN Habitat but I think when it comes to resilience I'm constantly seeing the sub-national the locally led being at the forefront and so I think there's great opportunity to sort of bring the UN agencies bring the multilateral system to think much more about the urban and sub-national governance in general it's not easy to do I will say but I think it's ever so critical so I think a great opportunity for continued collaboration and discussion okay thank you very much Ms. Gina and I think with that we are unfortunately all out of frame I'd like to thank all the speakers and all the respondents for their very enlightening comments